Circuits for Learning LRL

[J_Player]

maybe you will have a hard time hearing because of sound from the quartz.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Have an idea. What happens if we usel quartz rod for to sense electric fields? Also can improve very much the LRL rods

maybe you will have a hard time hearing because of sound from the quartz.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

maybe you will have a hard time hearing because of sound from the quartz.

Whaaat ? say again ?

Esteban, do you know this page? very well documented.
regards,
Fred.
http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Fred

Whaaat ? say again ?

Esteban, do you know this page? very well documented.
regards,
Fred.
http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

Hi Fred,

Thanks a lot!

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

maybe you will have a hard time hearing because of sound from the quartz.

No, this not disturbing sensor can be an extraordinary tool for electronic LRL. Here is used a quartz rod 30 cm long 4 mmm diam. See the patent:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=3gM...J&dq=6,107,791

Regards

Esteban

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

No, this not disturbing sensor can be an extraordinary tool for electronic LRL. Here is used a quartz rod 30 cm long 4 mmm diam. See the patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=3gM...J&dq=6,107,791

Hi Esteban,
The patent shows that this quartz apparatus is designed to measure the near static charge of the air without disturbing it by using metal sensor wires. Does this mean you think we can locate long range metal targets by measuring only the near static charge of the air with a quartz sensor? Or is more circuitry needed to locate a long range target?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Can be useful for measure electric activity in site with long time buried metals. Maybe for 5 or 10 meters.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Esteban

No, this not disturbing sensor can be an extraordinary tool for electronic LRL. Here is used a quartz rod 30 cm long 4 mmm diam. Regards Esteban

Hi Esteban,
This look interesting for electric field,not disturbing field.But what about magnetic field ?
It is important too.
Regards,
Fred.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

This look interesting for electric field,not disturbing field.But what about magnetic field ?
It is important too.

Maybe the quartz rod does not disturb the magnetic field too much same as not disturbing the electric field too much?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Maybe the quartz rod does not disturb the magnetic field too much same as not disturbing the electric field too much?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi
What i mean is : what Esteban intend to use if he wants to detect also the magnetic field?
Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi
What i mean is : what Esteban intend to use if he wants to detect also the magnetic field?
Regards,
Fred.

You can detect via

PASSIVE

1. magnetic system (absorptive)

2. electric system (type microvoltmeter)

3. combination of both (absorptive + microvoltmeter)

4. radiofrequency (simple radio receiver) (maybe sense combination of both - electric and magnetic fields)

5. Others...

ACTIVE

1. I/B + RF sniffer (active + passive)

2. Off-resonance + RF sniffer (active + passive)

3. Other kind of MD + RF sniffer (active + passive)

4. IR beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

5. Ultrasonic beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

6. IR laser beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

7. Other type based on emission + RF sniffer...

8. Etc.

Here, RF sniffer can be simple FM radio.

This combination + sensors you can use extend the possibilities.

[Fred]

Ok thanks Esteban,

I see the common base is RF sniffer, enhanced by some other device.But to pick up RF you need RF to be generated somehow, what gives best results?
Sorry for so many questions.
regards,
Fred.

[gold24h]

A bfo metal detector circuit with an exturnal coil generates an rf,long time buried metal at a distance will disturbe the rf in the coil,you can hear this little disturbance with an fm raido where the antenna is near the coil.I am building a unit but i do not know how to set the radio,do you set to a empty channel or one brodcasting?

[Fred]

Originally Posted by gold24h

A bfo metal detector circuit with an exturnal coil generates an rf,long time buried metal at a distance will disturbe the rf in the coil,you can hear this little disturbance with an fm raido where the antenna is near the coil.I am building a unit but i do not know how to set the radio,do you set to a empty channel or one brodcasting?

Hi,

I have no idea.If you are generating a freqency, i suppose you should try to tune to this frequency?
This looks interesting , it should be easy for you to try both .Did you really notice this effect?
Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by gold24h

A bfo metal detector circuit with an exturnal coil generates an rf,long time buried metal at a distance will disturbe the rf in the coil,you can hear this little disturbance with an fm raido where the antenna is near the coil.I am building a unit but i do not know how to set the radio,do you set to a empty channel or one brodcasting?

Yes, is in the list and others many posts by me:

ACTIVE

1. I/B + RF sniffer (active + passive)

2. Off-resonance + RF sniffer (active + passive)

3. Other kind of MD + RF sniffer (active + passive)

4. IR beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

5. Ultrasonic beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

6. IR laser beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

7. Other type based on emission + RF sniffer...

8. Etc.

Here, RF sniffer can be simple FM radio.

[gold24h]

Hi Fred,i have not experimented with this before,but if you read the posts from ESTABAN in the last several months he givs hints on how the pistol detectors from the past worked,he knows what he is talking about.I am building a bfo metal detecter based on a microchip circuit with an external coil of 70 turns of wire,the only problem is it occilates at 88 kilohertz,this may be two low,i will run a sheiled cable from the antenna conection of a hand helded fm raido to a loop antenna near the coil of the bfo.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by gold24h

the only problem is it occilates at 88 kilohertz,this may be two low

Esteban has said the workable frequencies are between 45 KHz and 160 KHz.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

You can detect via

PASSIVE

1. magnetic system (absorptive)

2. electric system (type microvoltmeter)

3. combination of both (absorptive + microvoltmeter)

4. radiofrequency (simple radio receiver) (maybe sense combination of both - electric and magnetic fields)

5. Others...

ACTIVE

1. I/B + RF sniffer (active + passive)

2. Off-resonance + RF sniffer (active + passive)

3. Other kind of MD + RF sniffer (active + passive)

4. IR beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

5. Ultrasonic beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

6. IR laser beam + RF sniffer (active + passive)

7. Other type based on emission + RF sniffer...

8. Etc.

Here, RF sniffer can be simple FM radio.

This combination + sensors you can use extend the possibilities.

Hi,
about this "RF sniffer" or FM radio what do you mean ?

Someone already asked this...

I mean... what you do with FM radio ? tune to a broadcast station ? Tune to free slot (just background noise) ? Or just modify the radio for change e.g. frequency ...bands etc ?

I don't understand what's the purpose of this RF sniffer.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Esteban has said the workable frequencies are between 45 KHz and 160 KHz.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
yes right... but he wrote also that this "RF sniffer" works in FM : and I read this both frequency modulation and FM-band ...if he doesn't modify the radio he will tune e.g. from 88-108MHz and so ?

What's relationship between a 50KHz signal not modulated in frequency (do you know any detector that made this modulation of signal ???) and a frequency modulation receiver that maybe runs at 88Mhz (if he doesn't modify radio) ???

This thing seems have no sense. But maybe he will explain us what kind of relationship will be between the two things!

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
about this "RF sniffer" or FM radio what do you mean ?

Someone already asked this...

I mean... what you do with FM radio ? tune to a broadcast station ? Tune to free slot (just background noise) ? Or just modify the radio for change e.g. frequency ...bands etc ?

I don't understand what's the purpose of this RF sniffer.

Kind regards,
Max

In the past I put in extreme free of band.

Is better modify the radio quite one turn of the 3 turns used in FM, so this extend to 108 to 130 or more Mhz, out of poluited FM here we have.

Also I want to know how is the purpose of the antenna (no telescopic, I use only a cable around search head), but is useful for to detect this old items, and don't know why, maybe rediadated signals from different radio sources...

Also the audio is useful for to ampplify the BFO detection...

This is an empiric theme, because as you don't have scientific papers in this field, your way is the experiment and see wich is better results.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
yes right... but he wrote also that this "RF sniffer" works in FM : and I read this both frequency modulation and FM-band ...if he doesn't modify the radio he will tune e.g. from 88-108MHz and so ?

What's relationship between a 50KHz signal not modulated in frequency (do you know any detector that made this modulation of signal ???) and a frequency modulation receiver that maybe runs at 88Mhz (if he doesn't modify radio) ???

This thing seems have no sense. But maybe he will explain us what kind of relationship will be between the two things!

Kind regards,
Max

Maybe no relation between these both frequencies, but put a loop around a radio an generate a tone... you'll hear clearly in audio section... See here a loop that creates the tone.

Isn't in books!

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Esteban has said the workable frequencies are between 45 KHz and 160 KHz.

Best wishes,
J_P

Yes, more low frequencies mean minus hertz variation. "Excess" of Khz (300) you have here detected very well paper plated of box cigarettes...

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Maybe no relation between these both frequencies, but put a loop around a radio an generate a tone... you'll hear clearly in audio section... See here a loop that creates the tone.

Isn't in books!

Hi,
some FM radios (almost all old stuff as far as I know) can detect small amplitude modulation (narrow) when they are in frequency demodulation mode. This happens cause of some transistor there that works as rectifier and then some detection happens by amplitude too not just frequency modulation.

My guess is that, if you put the coil with tone signal (amplitude modulation) near radio in FM mode... it will pick up that tone by amplitude demodulation that happens there.

Very easy to test... nedd just one e.g. remote control and an FM radio... put it into FM and near the remote on the back side... the inductive coupling between radio coils and remote tracks with currents flowing in... will give you hear the sound of on-off modulation at IR led(s)... so to sense the currents and relative EM fields.

But if you switch in AM mode you will hear much more loud... cause it's dedicated demodulator there... with e.g. germanium diodes (old stuff radio like you posted).

My question is: why use FM if you look for amplitude modulation ?

When you talk about BFO you mean there's some frequency mixing somewhere and this will be detected by FM radio as frequency (variant) modulation ... and thus amplitude modulation residual information is just a part of what you are looking for?

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
some FM radios (almost all old stuff as far as I know) can detect small amplitude modulation (narrow) when they are in frequency demodulation mode. This happens cause of some transistor there that works as rectifier and then some detection happens by amplitude too not just frequency modulation.

My guess is that, if you put the coil with tone signal (amplitude modulation) near radio in FM mode... it will pick up that tone by amplitude demodulation that happens there.

Very easy to test... nedd just one e.g. remote control and an FM radio... put it into FM and near the remote on the back side... the inductive coupling between radio coils and remote tracks with currents flowing in... will give you hear the sound of on-off modulation at IR led(s)... so to sense the currents and relative EM fields.

But if you switch in AM mode you will hear much more loud... cause it's dedicated demodulator there... with e.g. germanium diodes (old stuff radio like you posted).

My question is: why use FM if you look for amplitude modulation ?

When you talk about BFO you mean there's some frequency mixing somewhere and this will be detected by FM radio as frequency (variant) modulation ... and thus amplitude modulation residual information is just a part of what you are looking for?

Kind regards,
Max

Yes, of course, this is the reason for to use the IR beam instead the BFO MD. You generate the tone and you can adjust the system for to leave stable and sensitive.

I use FM mode because is very more clean than AM. If you don't use the IR or loop for to generate the tone, or BFO MD, or I-B MD in conjunction FM radio, only the FM radio, well also works only the FM and don't know why! Also any RF clean receiver... For example, I bought a wireless bell and I use the receiver part (only for check if this can be useful), well also works.