PDK LRL

[goldfinder]

Morgan mentioned a PDK LRL. Can Morgan or someone tell what this is. I did a Google search and nothing.

A PDK clone = what is that?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks to all in advance.

Goldfinder

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by goldfinder

Morgan mentioned a PDK LRL. Can Morgan or someone tell what this is. I did a Google search and nothing.

A PDK clone = what is that?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks to all in advance.

Goldfinder

Hi

The PDK its a Long Range Locator,PD or PDK its the same PISTOLDETEKTOR.
Max and Fred & Qiaozhi,work a lot to reverse engeneering the 6 PCB circuits made by Alonso,but the result was frustrating becouse they made many errors in the new schematic,that if someone try to build one PDK this will not work...
I can put the list of errors found until now,maybe there are more...

Regards

[Max]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hi

The PDK its a Long Range Locator,PD or PDK its the same PISTOLDETEKTOR.
Max and Fred & Qiaozhi,work a lot to reverse engeneering the 6 PCB circuits made by Alonso,but the result was frustrating becouse they made many errors in the new schematic,that if someone try to build one PDK this will not work...
I can put the list of errors found until now,maybe there are more...

Regards

Hi,
no you're wrong.

I don't wanna disclose everything here... cause some people don't like all details will be out... even if the stuff, really, don't work!

I respect their ideas and so will say just what's appropriate here.

The main part is a simple old style MD. The schematic for it is correct, no errors, and works perfectly. I've replicated it and tested myself... like others did also. Why I tell you the schematic is PERFECT !? I know it is, cannot tell you why I'm so sure... but Qiaozhi, Fred, Geo, JPlayer etc all are sure like I'm that this part have no mistake.

The problem is that has the very normal range of an MD, so just few cms over small stuff like coins, not meters or half meters like described.

Another part of the circuit is, instead, like a radio receiver, this unusual stuff found in PDK was declared providing long range abilities to the normal MD there... but actually, also replicated in all possible details, it doesn't provide any extra depth in detection... having no usefulness in all that thing apart draining a small current and adding more instability.

All the rest are claims that were never confirmed by "serious" members with real good intentions and understanding of electronics involved.

Or do you belive in Hung's (and yourself) claims... ???

Not to talk that you added a 7th faked board picture... with board over coil... that's not really fair thing after you filled the forums with claims there are just 6 boards inside PDK!

C'mon, the game is over.

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

Personally i agree with Max.

[J_Player]

I have seen no real evidence that the PDK does anything different than what Max said. I hear only talk from people who claim it will find long range. If anyone has an exact replica of the Alonso pistol that will really find gold at 10 feet distance, then they can easily win the $25,000 prize money that Carl offers.

I have not seen this happen yet. What is the reason?

Are they still trying to protect the propriety of the Alonso design? Well guess what? We found out this design was copyrighted years ago by the Heathkit company when they designed the main circuit. -- So no problems here. Even if the circuits were proprietary, they do not have to be revealed in order to win the $25,000 prize.

So what other reason?
Are the owners of the working Alonso replicas finding so much valuable treasure that they don't have time to waste on some small $25,000 prize?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I have seen no real evidence that the PDK does anything different than what Max said. I hear only talk from people who claim it will find long range. If anyone has an exact replica of the Alonso pistol that will really find gold at 10 feet distance, then they can easily win the $25,000 prize money that Carl offers.

I have not seen this happen yet. What is the reason?

Are they still trying to protect the propriety of the Alonso design? Well guess what? We found out this design was copyrighted years ago by the Heathkit company when they designed the main circuit. -- So no problems here. Even if the circuits were proprietary, they do not have to be revealed in order to win the $25,000 prize.

So what other reason?
Are the owners of the working Alonso replicas finding so much valuable treasure that they don't have time to waste on some small $25,000 prize?


Best wishes,
J_P

Yes the $25,000 its realy very small price. I dont go to America for this little money,so wath happens when i win the price? Just think !!! I´m sure they dont let me return unless i give them the LRL device to copy. THIS IS THE REALITY ABOUT THE CHALLENGE !!!!! One true LRL who works for AMERICA

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I have seen no real evidence that the PDK does anything different than what Max said. I hear only talk from people who claim it will find long range. If anyone has an exact replica of the Alonso pistol that will really find gold at 10 feet distance, then they can easily win the $25,000 prize money that Carl offers.

I have not seen this happen yet. What is the reason?

Are they still trying to protect the propriety of the Alonso design? Well guess what? We found out this design was copyrighted years ago by the Heathkit company when they designed the main circuit. -- So no problems here. Even if the circuits were proprietary, they do not have to be revealed in order to win the $25,000 prize.

So what other reason?
Are the owners of the working Alonso replicas finding so much valuable treasure that they don't have time to waste on some small $25,000 prize?


Best wishes,
J_P

Detection via pistol demmand some conditions imposed by nature, as target will be stay buried in soil for some years. So, the only possibility for to show his success is finding the items in the terrain. Also exist this problem: for to be detectable a coin at 1 meter depth and some meters (5-10), the target need stay buried intact (no movement of terrain, for example) for 100 years. The same item can be detectable at few centimeters buried 3 to 5 years, etc. Mineralization of soil also influences here (iron terrain).

In this theme is the nature "who write" the rules, no Carl, not you, no Sam Scaffieri, no everybody. But in the past Alonso was capable for to detect outside the soil at sight many meters... (no Heathkit here)

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I have seen no real evidence that the PDK does anything different than what Max said. I hear only talk from people who claim it will find long range. If anyone has an exact replica of the Alonso pistol that will really find gold at 10 feet distance, then they can easily win the $25,000 prize money that Carl offers.

I have not seen this happen yet. What is the reason?

Are they still trying to protect the propriety of the Alonso design? Well guess what? We found out this design was copyrighted years ago by the Heathkit company when they designed the main circuit. -- So no problems here. Even if the circuits were proprietary, they do not have to be revealed in order to win the $25,000 prize.

So what other reason?
Are the owners of the working Alonso replicas finding so much valuable treasure that they don't have time to waste on some small $25,000 prize?


Best wishes,
J_P

This pistol is not commercial. Is the same case when you made replica of other detectors. But if you study very well detectors circuitry... not very extraterrestrial design you'll find.

[Max]

Hi,
ok... now that JPlayer wrote about (why? ) that there's no reason to miss that part of the story to get a larger picture.

Me and Qiaozhi found the Heathkit schematic of original MD used inside the PD.

Qiaozhi at first realized that something similar was both in an old Heathkit schematic but something was wrong in that respect to the reverse engineering schematic of PD, different connections and components.

Then I found another schematic, that time was another , later MD, always by Heathkit, and we realized it was the exact same stuff of what's inside the PD... in it's main part that uses the coil in the round container.
It's an off-resonance kind.

So we concluded that the PD was not a design by Alonso as claimed on the old thread about PD... but something probably modified and adapted by him using parts from different stuff, like that MD from heathkit... that's about 70% of PD circuit...other stuff like audio part is really easy thing and unimportant. Last "unknown" piece is a broadband amplitude modulation receiver... but very basic stuff. There couldn't be a patent about simply cause the technology of that MD is already patented by the Heathkit corp. in the 60's and 70's. The radio part is out maybe from 100years already... what you wanna patent of it ? Marconi probably hold that patent before...

Now, that's why I told you I'm so sure of no mistakes in the MD part: we know many months ago that it was copied from the Heathkit MD I wrote, that IT IS an Heathkit MD inside just with a smaller coil than original, and so everything is right in it... don't forget Heathkit's engineers made its design!

Actually some of us made it for real, and works also cool, but as normal MD!

But all the rest seems more and more a fairy tale.

Kind regards,
Max

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
ok... now that JPlayer wrote about (why? ) that there's no reason to miss that part of the story to get a larger picture.

Me and Qiaozhi found the Heathkit schematic of original MD used inside the PD.

Qiaozhi at first realized that something similar was both in an old Heathkit schematic but something was wrong in that respect to the reverse engineering schematic of PD, different connections and components.

Then I found another schematic, that time was another , later MD, always by Heathkit, and we realized it was the exact same stuff of what's inside the PD... in it's main part that uses the coil in the round container.
It's an off-resonance kind.

So we concluded that the PD was not a design by Alonso as claimed on the old thread about PD... but something probably modified and adapted by him using parts from different stuff, like that MD from heathkit... that's about 70% of PD circuit...other stuff like audio part is really easy thing and unimportant. Last "unknown" piece is a broadband amplitude modulation receiver... but very basic stuff. There couldn't be a patent about simply cause the technology of that MD is already patented by the Heathkit corp. in the 60's and 70's. The radio part is out maybe from 100years already... what you wanna patent of it ? Marconi probably hold that patent before...

Now, that's why I told you I'm so sure of no mistakes in the MD part: we know many months ago that it was copied from the Heathkit MD I wrote, that IT IS an Heathkit MD inside just with a smaller coil than original, and so everything is right in it... don't forget Heathkit's engineers made its design!

Actually some of us made it for real, and works also cool, but as normal MD!

But all the rest seems more and more a fairy tale.

Kind regards,
Max

Hey Max

In this photo,it was you in Vietnam war ???

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

Actually some of us made it for real, and works also cool, but as normal MD!
But all the rest seems more and more a fairy tale.

Originally Posted by Morgan

Yes the $25,000 its realy very small price. I dont go to America for this little money,so wath happens when i win the price? Just think !!! I´m sure they dont let me return unless i give them the LRL device to copy. THIS IS THE REALITY ABOUT THE CHALLENGE !!!!! One true LRL who works for AMERICA

Well. here we have it... Max says the PDK is a cool Heathkit metal detector that actually works like a regular metal detector, and the rest is a fairy tale. And Morgan says he does not try to win the $25,000 prize with his PDK because it is a small prize compared to the extremely valuable treasures he is finding, and because he believes he will be forced to surrender his pistol detector after he wins.

AMAZING! ... Doesn't this prove the pistol detector really does work to find gold at long distances?



Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hey Max

In this photo,it was you in Vietnam war ???

Hi,
no, the picture is from wikipedia.

It's not from Vietnam era.

Show a marine that shot an AK...

How can you confuse that vegetation with that of Vietnam ???

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

ok... now that JPlayer wrote about (why? ) that there's no reason to miss that part of the story to get a larger picture.

Hi Max,
JPlayer wrote about (why? )
What I posted has been public information available to all unregistered forum readers anywhere in the world. There is no reason not to post information that anyone can read in the geotech forums. You will see an early version of schematics for the pistol detector (with some errors) in this forum post: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=64025

You will also find the identical Heathkit schematic has been in the geotech forum for years here: http://www.thunting.com/geotech/foru...s/GD-48_BW.gif

Anyone can see the basic Alonso pistol circuit has been copied from the Heathkit GD-348 metal detector which was state of the art decades ago, but is now considered obsolete.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Max,
JPlayer wrote about (why? )
What I posted has been public information available to all unregistered forum readers anywhere in the world. There is no reason not to post information that anyone can read in the geotech forums. You will see an early version of schematics for the pistol detector (with some errors) in this forum post: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=64025

You will also find the identical Heathkit schematic has been in the geotech forum for years here: http://www.thunting.com/geotech/foru...s/GD-48_BW.gif

Anyone can see the basic Alonso pistol circuit has been copied from the Heathkit GD-348 metal detector which was state of the art decades ago, but is now considered obsolete.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
yes, but that wasn't so immediate conclusion... me and Qiaozhi probably searched for 2-3 days before we found that....I think Esteban will not be happy of your post, anyway.

My intention was leaving out that "details" cause Esteban and other people were worried about implications of making public domain that inside the PD was actually an Heathkit GD-348 MD...

There was a general agreement of keeping out of public domain any reference to that topic of the Heathkit stuff...also with the explicit intention of avoiding mass production of cloned PDs in Asia and other parts of the world. Or also... cloned GD-348 MDs!

Not that I belived really could happen... but you know... today you make an unuseful 10$ bottlecap-remover in western world... then after a couple of weeks you see tons of them in your local store... at 0.99$ each , ALL from a country that we know... where producing stuff is really cheap cause of low salaries...and no good environment policy at now!

Indeed I agree with Esteban when he said that, cause PD was never a commercial unit, there's nothing more than copying old schematics of other brands for personal use only...research and the like, we made here.

Also, like with other schematics here at Geotech most are obsolete stuff... not anymore in production (like the GD-348 ), so the issues about e.g. patents infringements are about academic (unless really Heathkit -or what remains of it- will jump in, really few probable I think).

That sure took another important fact, means also that many people beliving in an original Alonso's design masterpiece will be now about disappointed.

So Esteban will be even less happy about that post!

On the other hand the logic of PD is reusing existing technology to make something different, and that "idea" could stay in a patent... if it's an innovation on existing detection methods (at least this is the belief of who trust Alonso)...but no patent exist as far as we know.

But the most important issue is still that device , after all tests and cloning, failed in reproducing any LRL behaviour.

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

Whenever a metal detector (either separate or built-in) is melded with a dowsing instrument, the true merit or worth of the dowsing gadget will always be an unknown --no matter what the operator believes.

The only way to effectively evaluate a dowsing wand (or dowsing method) is to test it by itself.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Whenever a metal detector (either separate or built-in) is melded with a dowsing instrument, the true merit or worth of the dowsing gadget will always be an unknown --no matter what the operator believes.

The only way to effectively evaluate a dowsing wand (or dowsing method) is to test it by itself.

I agree with your statement. Except (in this case) the PDK is not a dowsing instrument. There is no swinging handle, or similar gizmo. It is entirely electronic, in a similar manner to the Mineoro stuff.

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

I think it's much more than "likely". There may be a halo effect in the ground created by certain items, but the idea of some sort of ionic cloud, hovering above longtime buried gold, is pure fantasy.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

Hi,
yes, we talk about that, I remember the "halo" issue well.

Though I think the so called "halo" really exist and not only for ferrous items, long time buried... cause had experiences that cannot be easy explained not considering that kind of effects.... I must say that the idea of PD detecting a supposed "halo" of e.g. a coin from meters far is pretty unrealistic.

That's cause we found no connections happens at long range, the device seems work (as a normal MD) in the short range only, unless a very (BUT VERY) big object is in front of it... in which case is not impossible reading a detection also at 4-5meters away... that's the case of very large (several square meters) conductive objects, usually big iron doors, when disc work not properly.

It's halo ? No. The square meters of a large door can be detected also by other kind of sensitive MDs... expecially PIs, I must say that the fact an old off-resonance MD design can do that doesn't surprised me much at that time.

My last idea of PD is that is a bit of black magic + some old style electronics.

Why black magic ? Easy: it's the unexplained there... the broadband receiver is there just cause the general idea is, like in the goldgun stuff, detecting the presence or absence of some radio signal, with undefined frequency or subject to frequency shifts.

If you ask about if the PD works or not... you'll better ask yourself if the goldgun could ever work.

For me it's clear that will not work... but others seems still think that the goldgun "principle" as the right way to the promised land of working LRLs.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Pistol detector based on regular detector works as long range detector (some meters) and is possible in conjunction with other(s) circuit(s).

Morgan has success finding targets with it, I have success with similar instrument... so maybe the problem is errors in schematics or connections.

The ferrite section is the real long range detector in this project.

Pistols with MD can be:

1. Based in regular MD + RF circuit

2. Absorption as the ferrite, in wich case MD is for pinpointing unburied target.

Of course, if you publish all schematics here, the people will reproduce and sell the devices, workable or not workable. Do you want to be part of it?

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Pistol detector based on regular detector works as long range detector (some meters) and is possible in conjunction with other(s) circuit(s).

Morgan has success finding targets with it, I have success with similar instrument... so maybe the problem is errors in schematics or connections.

The ferrite section is the real long range detector in this project.

Pistols with MD can be:

1. Based in regular MD + RF circuit

2. Absorption as the ferrite, in wich case MD is for pinpointing unburied target.

Of course, if you publish all schematics here, the people will reproduce and sell the devices, workable or not workable. Do you want to be part of it?

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
I don't want put everything public domain... I've already explained that... and reasons also (even if I don't agree on some statements made at that time).

I revealed a "misty" part of the story just after JP provided the main information...

But we then stalled on the interesting issue: having a working LRL device , cloned working PD, as reported by mr Morgan.

I think what's happening now is not dependand by my will... it's just cause some people invested time and efforts in that process and are a bit (maybe) furstrated by that PD stuff that now it's like opening the Pandora's box of PD !

It's like when someone plays with a flamethrower full of napalm inside a nuclear reactor thing....singing "seek and destroy"!
Do you think really someone could now avoid a big blast there ?

I think mr Morgan striked the first match...with that post of above...talking about our unsuccessful reverse engineering and mistakes...

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I think it's much more than "likely". There may be a halo effect in the ground created by certain items, but the idea of some sort of ionic cloud, hovering above longtime buried gold, is pure fantasy.

Hey,you are the one talking of hovering ions, not me !
I still think there is some effect in cause. But as we know nothing about it, i can´t tell if it may or not be detected at "some distance".

Originally Posted by Max

That's cause we found no connections happens at long range, the device seems work (as a normal MD) in the short range only, unless a very (BUT VERY) big object is in front of it...

I know, but personally i cannot guarantee that i tested it in presence of a halo...
I am not defending anything here, except what i think must be real neutrality in judging the results.If positive results must be scientifically tested, so must be negative ones too
Regards,
Fred.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Fred

I know, but personally i cannot guarantee that i tested it in presence of a halo...
I am not defending anything here, except what i think must be real neutrality in judging the results.If positive results must be scientifically tested, so must be negative ones too
Regards,
Fred.

So far there have not been any "confirmed" positive results ... just hearsay.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
yes, but that wasn't so immediate conclusion... me and Qiaozhi probably searched for 2-3 days before we found that....I think Esteban will not be happy of your post, anyway.

My intention was leaving out that "details" cause Esteban and other people were worried about implications of making public domain that inside the PD was actually an Heathkit GD-348 MD...

There was a general agreement of keeping out of public domain any reference to that topic of the Heathkit stuff...also with the explicit intention of avoiding mass production of cloned PDs in Asia and other parts of the world. Or also... cloned GD-348 MDs!

Not that I belived really could happen... but you know... today you make an unuseful 10$ bottlecap-remover in western world... then after a couple of weeks you see tons of them in your local store... at 0.99$ each , ALL from a country that we know... where producing stuff is really cheap cause of low salaries...and no good environment policy at now!

Indeed I agree with Esteban when he said that, cause PD was never a commercial unit, there's nothing more than copying old schematics of other brands for personal use only...research and the like, we made here.

Also, like with other schematics here at Geotech most are obsolete stuff... not anymore in production (like the GD-348 ), so the issues about e.g. patents infringements are about academic (unless really Heathkit -or what remains of it- will jump in, really few probable I think).

That sure took another important fact, means also that many people beliving in an original Alonso's design masterpiece will be now about disappointed.

So Esteban will be even less happy about that post!

On the other hand the logic of PD is reusing existing technology to make something different, and that "idea" could stay in a patent... if it's an innovation on existing detection methods (at least this is the belief of who trust Alonso)...but no patent exist as far as we know.

But the most important issue is still that device , after all tests and cloning, failed in reproducing any LRL behaviour.

Kind regards,
Max

Yes,it failled but only to the person who made mistakes when construct and calibrate device ...

[J_Player]

It has been confirmed that in most locations, the ground around long-time buried metals including gold is not the same as the same ground around recently buried metals. There is an Australian company that runs a thriving business locating gold and other ore deposits by sampling the ground above the buried ore. From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth. According to their measurements, this extremely weak column of ions travels upward as much as 5000 feet before neutralizing just below the surface.

It is my opinion there is a "halo", provided you describe a halo as an anomaly in the soil which exists as a column in the earth above long-time buried metals. I do not believe any halo extends above the surface of the ground. If it is possible to sense the location of buried metal from above the ground without taking a soil sample, then I believe it would be explained by secondary effects, not by the metal ions floating into the air.

However, I have never seen any reliable device locate any halo at long range except by taking a sample of the soil to show that it has a higher concentration of ions than the surrounding soil. None of the talk about LRLs locating buried metals was ever demonstrated to me live in an area unknown to the operator of the LRL. Also, no LRL in the world has ever won Carl's $25,000 prize. The only LRL I have heard of attempting to win a prize is the contraption Dell Winders used to try to find coins in the sand in front of Randi. The reports show that Dell failed miserably, and then claimed Randi lied about the test results. When Randi offered Dell a re-test for a $1 million prize, Dell refused.

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P