H3Tec discussion

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Art3811

You guys keep claiming that you are on the internet to keep people from buying these devices…How could your failure to answer simple questions keep people from investigating the subject more?

Sorry, Art, my only goal is to provide information. Folks can make up their own mind. I could tell you the truth about what I found with the H3 device, but I don't think you would find the truth nearly as fascinating as a pack of lies. In any case, you're not inclined to believe anything I say, so I'm not inclined to waste my time.

Tellyawhat, since you're precisely the kind of person Chuck is looking for in a customer, I strongly urge you to buy an H3 device. Make sure you get the latest Mod-5 Turbo model, and get the 5+ mile version. Wouldn't want you limited to a mere mile or 2. Then hopefully you'll go back to TNet, and tell those darn skeptics what fools they are for not owning the latest el-ar-el.

Now, if my goal in life is to keep people from buying these devices, would I recommend that you buy one?

P.S. -- I also recommend Hung buy one. How bout that, Chuck? I'm send you two Perfect Customers! They have a huge appetite, feed them well.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dave J.

a bit of confusion, Player: Hung was replying to my Advertising post, but his reply came after the bedtime story which I presume he hadn't seen.

--Dave J.

Yes, I caught that.
But he will see it soon, maybe before bedtime....

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

P.S. -- I also recommend Hung buy one. How bout that, Chuck? I'm send you two Perfect Customers! They have a huge appetite, feed them well.

I don't need to buy anything.
I have my own working stuff already. Some that I bought and some that I buid but don't sell it. I'm not a salesman.

Tell ya what.
Keep using your MD junk to find coins at the beach.
We'll remain using our stuff to treasure hunting.
How's that?
Is it too hard for you to accept this simple fact in life or you will need some more therapy sessions?

Meanwhile... Have fun with the H3tec guys.
Thanks to you, they should expect soon a boost in sales. The same thing RT experienced in all these years. Skeptics are a great promotion tool.
And...
Life goes on.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by hung

... Have fun with the H3tec guys.
Thanks to you, they should expect soon a boost in sales.

Hmmmm....
A boost in sales?
Really?

Is this why the owners of H3Tec are sending email demands to Carl to remove all of the H3Tec stuff from his forum?
Maybe the alleged boost in sales will solve the poverty problem for their California rep, so he can afford to attend their big event in December.
Maybe the owner will become rich enough to hire an attorney...


Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Originally Posted by Dave J.

a bit of confusion, Player: Hung was replying to my Advertising post, but his reply came after the bedtime story which I presume he hadn't seen.

--Dave J.

As apparently you can not define the terms I point, then I assume you do not know what they mean.
Thus everything you wrote falls apart and it's just 'non sequitur'.

I agree, maybe it could become a bed time story, but it would need another plot so that it prevents the reader from falling asleep before the final part.

[hung]

I see TNET forum is up again.
And Judy already left a warm message to SWR.

I will eventually return for some more scientific discussions. This is my favorite food.

Let's go Art, the last to leave, please don't forget to turn the lights off.

[J_Player]

H3Tec says they work by the principle of "nano-ionic resonance".
Let's see what "nano-ionic resonance" brings us from google. There are not a lot of entries so it should be easy ...

Prime minister of Thailand warns against "magic wands" killing people instead of detecting bombs. The GT-200 and other models are said to work on the principal of ‘magnetic molecular resonance’ or ‘nano ionic resonance’ and or ‘dia/para magnetism’.
http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2010/...outh-thailand/

Blog site warns about H3Tec and others who market fake explosive detectors:
http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com...-military.html

First place scum of the minute award for H3Tec:
http://www.skepdic.com/news/newsletter103.html

Win a $159.99 Sedu Revolution Nano Ionic Tourmaline Flat Iron! ...nano-ionic beauty appliances ???
http://www.flathairstraightener.com/nano-ionic/

Some guy in "The Dead Horse forum" ran across H3Tec advertising and responds "What a load of horse$hit buzzword slaptogether to confuse the rubes...":
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/show....php?p=2494040

Then, at the H3Tec website we find a video that explains their idea of "nano-ionic resonance":
http://www.h3tec.com/H3promo.html

According to the H3Tec video, nano ionic resonance works by measuring the spin rate by using the positively and negatively charged ions in an atom called cations and anions, this new device can literraly lock onto elements or combinations of elements called compounds. This has been called Nano Ionic Resonance, or NIR by H3Tec, and is what makes the device tick.

Each unit is powered by two 9 volt batteries that will run the device for up to eight hours.
To locate an element, a software interface is first used to upload that element's data, say gold to the H3Tec detector. The detector is powered on and its range is set to define the grid to be scanned. Immediately the detector begins scanning for gold. If gold is within the defined detection grid, the gold element itself is physically excited and energized by the H3Tec signal. There is a shifting of the atom, and a moment of angular offset. The atom starts making unique detectable noise that the H3Tec can listen to. The H3Tec then closes its listening circuit and locks onto the targeted element of gold. NIR technology doesn't rely on radio waves for transmission. Instead, it uses the magnetic field naturally supplied by the earth. As a result, the H3Tec detector can penetrate earth, metals, plastics, and water to locate any element or compounded elements found on the periodic table. The current device will detect targets up to ten miles away.

So we see H3Tec is not talking about conventional magnetic resonance or resonance related to recent optical developments with nano particles. In fact, their representation of nano-ionic resonance is not consistent with H3Tec's forum post which claims the device works by detecting isotopes of the element. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=70

If you read his statement, you will see he is saying silver with isotope 107 cannot be detected if your H3Tec is set to detect silver 109. (ie: Carl's silver bar that they couldn't detect had isotope 107... no wonder they couldn't detect it... they were set to isotope 109!
Are we really that stupid?
It is easy to find that all silver on earth has 51.839% Ag107 and 48.161% Ag109 regardless of what it is alloyed with, or what manufacturing process it has been through, or what it is compounded with. The only exceptions are a few exotic silver isotopes that only exist for extremely short periods in a laboratory before they decay into cadmium or lead. We see this "isotope excuse" has no truth to it, or if it did, then everything scientists learned about silver isotopes is completely wrong. It would mean that Carl's silver bar has no Ag107 in it instead of the same amount as silver coins have!

So much for the fake excuse about isotope deficiency...
But wait.... How is it that the principle of operation changed from isotope recognition to "nano-ionic resonance"?
Is this a newer buzz word that sounds cooler than isotope detection?
Maybe they borrowed it from the Geotech forum... (ionic detection, MFD, ionic resonance, etc.), and added nano to make it sound more high tech?

We can see from their explanation, they are not talking about using a mega-gauss coil in the same manner than an MRI machine works. But it appears Rudy is correct... it takes more than two 9-volt batteries to cause a perterbation of atoms, especially at a distance from the apparatus that is (allegedly) causing the perterbation. To get an idea, look at what kind of power a proton percession magnetometer uses... and take note that the atoms that are being preterbed are contained within the appartus. Could it possibly work if the medium being preterbed was a few feet away from the magnetometer, or a mile?

Not with a pair of 9-volt batteries designed to last 8 hours it couldn't! Two 9 volt batteries running 8 hours couldn't even maintain the strength of the earth's magnetic field, and the magnetic field of the earth is no where near strong enough... Rudy is correct.

But let's suppose there is some mysterious science we don't know about that causes the H3Tec to work as advertised. If this were true, then somebody would be able to demonstrate it working. We would not hear reports from Carl and Tim Williams that it failed to find a silver bar and coins during the factory demonstration. We wouldn't hear reports that H3Tec customers are sending their units to Carl for performance evaluation if they really did what they are advertised to do.
And we would see that they can pass the same test that a toy metal detector can pass to determine which of 10 pieces of plywood a silver coin is hidden under.

Can the H3Tec do that?
Can anyone demonstrate it finding which piece of plywood Carl hides a silver dollar under?
Are you ready to send your $10,000+ for an H3Tec locator?

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Before I leave...

I now see you have a big problem in understanding very simple things right.
Please, do yourself a favor an read this here at least ten times and understand it once and for all. Your intelect will thank you very much for this.

Immediately the detector begins scanning for gold. If gold is within the defined detection grid, the gold element itself is physically excited and energized by the H3Tec signal. There is a shifting of the atom, and a moment of angular offset. The atom starts making unique detectable noise that the H3Tec can listen to. The H3Tec then closes its listening circuit and locks onto the targeted element of gold. NIR technology doesn't rely on radio waves for transmission. Instead, it uses the magnetic field naturally supplied by the earth.

Before...
you state such:

But it appears Rudy is correct... it takes more than two 9-volt batteries to cause a perterbation of atoms, especially at a distance from the apparatus that is (allegedly) causing the perterbation. To get an idea, look at what kind of power a proton percession magnetometer uses... and take note that the atoms that are being preterbed are contained within the appartus. Could it possibly work if the medium being preterbed was a few feet away from the magnetometer, or a mile?

Not with a pair of 9-volt batteries designed to last 8 hours it couldn't! Two 9 volt batteries running 8 hours couldn't even maintain the strength of the earth's magnetic field, and the magnetic field of the earth is no where near strong enough...
Best wishes,
J_P

Who told you the batteries are used to do the things you claim above??
They are just there to feed the components Einstein!

In my post to Dave, I talk about how I think these kind of detection happens.
But you choose to ignore it. Very well. It's your choice.

You might remain discussing how your microwave oven does not work as long as you wish, until the day you find out that it's no microwave oven. It's a TV.

Bye for now.

[pebe]

Originally Posted by hung

Before I leave...

I now see you have a big problem in understanding very simple things right.
Please, do yourself a favor an read this here at least ten times and understand it once and for all. Your intelect will thank you very much for this.

Before...
you state such:

Who told you the batteries are used to do the things you claim above??
They are just there to feed the components Einstein!

In my post to Dave, I talk about how I think these kind of detection happens.
But you choose to ignore it. Very well. It's your choice.

You might remain discussing how your microwave oven does not work as long as you wish, until the day you find out that it's no microwave oven. It's a TV.

Bye for now.

Gaud...! What nebulous waffle! You really should learn the art of one-way communication.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

I have a friend who always states he recovered already 10 times the value he paid in his (expensive) LRL.

This is hearsay and does not constitute evidence.

Originally Posted by hung

And there are also the ones who never found anything valuable. I know some of them. So it's just a matter of relativity.

I very much doubt that Einstein would agree with you on that one.

Originally Posted by hung

In order to fully explain the reasons a swivel LRL needs to be held, I would have to disclose information of my own research, which I choose not to do at this time.

Oh ... go on! It would be good for a laugh.

Originally Posted by hung

But it suffices to say that there are interaction of charges between air, body and target to build up induction and resonance based on the frequencies used. The swivel LRL user often needs to be in movement in order to create electrostatic charges. Also, the human body is very sensitive to tiny currents in the ground when using rods. They can sense about 20mA to a few microamperes. Since the body is also very sensitive to small magnetic fields (Rocard calculated about 0.3mOe/m), swivel LRLs and MFD types act as increasing amplifiers with the correspondent frequencies. A quantum system is formed working similar, but not exactly as a Aharonov-Bohm magnetic dipole to sense magnetic anomalies. Something that a regular electronic device would never be able to do because of noise. However it's possible to build a special electronic device for this function.

You are completely lost in your own brand of pseudo-science. I know you like to use phrases such as "Aharonov-Bohm magnetic dipole", and other scientific sounding terms, that you no doubt borrowed from the likes of Tom Bearden, but you wouldn't recognise a magnetic dipole if you tripped over it.

Originally Posted by hung

You don't know what you're saying. If some acupuncture meridian points such those of pericardium, frontal and kidneys are short circuited by a wire, all the body looses the response for dowsing and also there's a phase imbalance. This shows the human body is a quantum complex system much, much deeper than you might think.

Now it's my turn to say it ... OMG!
Even the general concepts behind quantum mechanics is totally beyond your grasp, as you have demonstrated many times in your posts. How you could possibly make a connection between the H3Tec dowsing contraption, acpuncture and QM just beggars belief

Originally Posted by hung

As you may know, H3Tec is planing an event in december for their devices. So, if you are serious about knowing the truth whatever that might be, why don't you show up and gather elements for your 'proof'?

Do you think the results will be different than on previous occasions? Have they produced a new model that is totally electronic and does not contain a swinging arm (dowsing rod)? If so, please supply details.

Originally Posted by hung

I suggest that next time you decide to write an 'essay' about something, study and research the object you will be writing about as much as you can. Otherwise you will come up with a lame and incorrect aproach causing to derail the thesis.

No-one wants to follow your example.

I notice that the hardware probem on the Treasurenet forums is now resolved. After some debugging it will soon be fully operationsl. So thanks for popping in Hung. Goodbye!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by hung

Before I leave...

I now see you have a big problem in understanding very simple things right.
Please, do yourself a favor an read this here at least ten times and understand it once and for all. Your intelect will thank you very much for this.

Before...
you state such:

Who told you the batteries are used to do the things you claim above??
They are just there to feed the components Einstein!

In my post to Dave, I talk about how I think these kind of detection happens.
But you choose to ignore it. Very well. It's your choice.

You might remain discussing how your microwave oven does not work as long as you wish, until the day you find out that it's no microwave oven. It's a TV.

Bye for now.

Ummm....
You got it wrong again, Dr. Hung...
H3Tec said their signal excites the gold. Go back and listen to their video... http://www.h3tec.com/H3promo.html

It is just as I posted:
"Each unit is powered by two 9 volt batteries that will run the device for up to eight hours...

...If gold is within the defined detection grid, the gold element itself is physically excited and energized by the H3Tec signal. There is a shifting of the atom, and a moment of angular offset".
Doesn't a shifting and angular offset of a distant atom being excited by the H3Tec signal qualify as perturbation in HungScience?


You may read your bedtime story now before going to sleep.... http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=221
It also applies to fake LRL success claimants who deny the words heard on a manufacturer's video.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dave J.]

Now that you've had time to sleep on it....... was your bedtime story fact or fiction?

--Dave J.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by J_Player

H3Tec says they work by the principle of "nano-ionic resonance".
Let's see what "nano-ionic resonance" brings us from google. There are not a lot of entries so it should be easy ...

Prime minister of Thailand warns against "magic wands" killing people instead of detecting bombs. The GT-200 and other models are said to work on the principal of ‘magnetic molecular resonance’ or ‘nano ionic resonance’ and or ‘dia/para magnetism’.
http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2010/...outh-thailand/

Blog site warns about H3Tec and others who market fake explosive detectors:
http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com...-military.html

First place scum of the minute award for H3Tec:
http://www.skepdic.com/news/newsletter103.html

Win a $159.99 Sedu Revolution Nano Ionic Tourmaline Flat Iron! ...nano-ionic beauty appliances ???
http://www.flathairstraightener.com/nano-ionic/

Some guy in "The Dead Horse forum" ran across H3Tec advertising and responds "What a load of horse$hit buzzword slaptogether to confuse the rubes...":
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/show....php?p=2494040

Then, at the H3Tec website we find a video that explains their idea of "nano-ionic resonance":
http://www.h3tec.com/H3promo.html

According to the H3Tec video, nano ionic resonance works by measuring the spin rate by using the positively and negatively charged ions in an atom called cations and anions, this new device can literraly lock onto elements or combinations of elements called compounds. This has been called Nano Ionic Resonance, or NIR by H3Tec, and is what makes the device tick.

Each unit is powered by two 9 volt batteries that will run the device for up to eight hours.
To locate an element, a software interface is first used to upload that element's data, say gold to the H3Tec detector. The detector is powered on and its range is set to define the grid to be scanned. Immediately the detector begins scanning for gold. If gold is within the defined detection grid, the gold element itself is physically excited and energized by the H3Tec signal. There is a shifting of the atom, and a moment of angular offset. The atom starts making unique detectable noise that the H3Tec can listen to. The H3Tec then closes its listening circuit and locks onto the targeted element of gold. NIR technology doesn't rely on radio waves for transmission. Instead, it uses the magnetic field naturally supplied by the earth. As a result, the H3Tec detector can penetrate earth, metals, plastics, and water to locate any element or compounded elements found on the periodic table. The current device will detect targets up to ten miles away.

So we see H3Tec is not talking about conventional magnetic resonance or resonance related to recent optical developments with nano particles. In fact, their representation of nano-ionic resonance is not consistent with H3Tec's forum post which claims the device works by detecting isotopes of the element. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=70

If you read his statement, you will see he is saying silver with isotope 107 cannot be detected if your H3Tec is set to detect silver 109. (ie: Carl's silver bar that they couldn't detect had isotope 107... no wonder they couldn't detect it... they were set to isotope 109!
Are we really that stupid?
It is easy to find that all silver on earth has 51.839% Ag107 and 48.161% Ag109 regardless of what it is alloyed with, or what manufacturing process it has been through, or what it is compounded with. The only exceptions are a few exotic silver isotopes that only exist for extremely short periods in a laboratory before they decay into cadmium or lead. We see this "isotope excuse" has no truth to it, or if it did, then everything scientists learned about silver isotopes is completely wrong. It would mean that Carl's silver bar has no Ag107 in it instead of the same amount as silver coins have!

So much for the fake excuse about isotope deficiency...
But wait.... How is it that the principle of operation changed from isotope recognition to "nano-ionic resonance"?
Is this a newer buzz word that sounds cooler than isotope detection?
Maybe they borrowed it from the Geotech forum... (ionic detection, MFD, ionic resonance, etc.), and added nano to make it sound more high tech?

We can see from their explanation, they are not talking about using a mega-gauss coil in the same manner than an MRI machine works. But it appears Rudy is correct... it takes more than two 9-volt batteries to cause a perterbation of atoms, especially at a distance from the apparatus that is (allegedly) causing the perterbation. To get an idea, look at what kind of power a proton percession magnetometer uses... and take note that the atoms that are being preterbed are contained within the appartus. Could it possibly work if the medium being preterbed was a few feet away from the magnetometer, or a mile?

Not with a pair of 9-volt batteries designed to last 8 hours it couldn't! Two 9 volt batteries running 8 hours couldn't even maintain the strength of the earth's magnetic field, and the magnetic field of the earth is no where near strong enough... Rudy is correct.

But let's suppose there is some mysterious science we don't know about that causes the H3Tec to work as advertised. If this were true, then somebody would be able to demonstrate it working. We would not hear reports from Carl and Tim Williams that it failed to find a silver bar and coins during the factory demonstration. We wouldn't hear reports that H3Tec customers are sending their units to Carl for performance evaluation if they really did what they are advertised to do.
And we would see that they can pass the same test that a toy metal detector can pass to determine which of 10 pieces of plywood a silver coin is hidden under.

Can the H3Tec do that?
Can anyone demonstrate it finding which piece of plywood Carl hides a silver dollar under?
Are you ready to send your $10,000+ for an H3Tec locator?

Best wishes,
J_P

The H3Tec marketing fluff says it works by the principle of "nano-ionic resonance", but the patent clearly states that it works using NMR. Obviously, both are wrong, The first term is made up , whilst NMR detection can not be achieved by the equipment design.

In fairness to their statement about needing the right isotopes, that is correct. Essentially, in order to exhibit an NMR effect, the nuclei of the atom must have the right combination of protons and neutrons so that it has a net non-zero spin. Different isotopes would have different NMR frequencies (or none at all).

Lastly, the NMR frequency scales linearly with the applied magnetic field. For example, a single proton (ie. hydrogen) has a NMR resonance of 900 MHz at a magnetic field of 21 Teslas, while it would have a frequency in the audio range when subjected only to the earth's magnetic field. As I mentioned in my analysis, the higher the magnetic field is, the better the NMR response in terms of signal energy and sharper resonance response. At earth's field the resonance is very broad and overlaps the response of other atoms with close magnetic moments (ie. loss of discrimination sensitivity) and the signal energy decreases to where it is obliterated by background and instrument noise.

The energy E = hv, where h is Plank's constant and v is the frequency. As you can see, the NMR signal from hydrogen in an earth's field NMR is over 10 million times smaller than if the hydrogen atom was surrounded by a 21 Tesla field.

This loss of signal energy is compounded by the fact that the wavelengths involved at these lower frequencies cannot be effectively radiated, or detected by the small dowsing rod elements used. Also, the low frequencies would not be very directional due to heir long wave fronts, making it impossible for the dowsing rod to really be able to pin point the location, even if the rest of the pseudo science worked, which it doesn't.

This effect is used in Earth's field NMR spectrometers and other instruments, because these instruments are portable and inexpensive, they are often used for teaching and field work. But is is necessary for the sample to be put inside a chamber, to measure the NMR. They can't detect any external NMR. It is simply impossible.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Art3811

….How do you spell SCAM?

Hard, without Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, so I do not spell SCAM at all.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Art3811

Thank you Fred…
It is a common psychological problem in that insecure people tend to project their personal deficiencies unto another in self defense, they are sure trying to pass theirs lack of knowledge over to you

Now that you know where your are here, can you answer the question?

Originally Posted by hung

I don't need to buy anything.
I have my own working stuff already. Some that I bought and some that I buid but don't sell it. I'm not a salesman.

Maybe not exactly you,. but...

Originally Posted by hung

Tell ya what.
Keep using your MD junk to find coins at the beach.
We'll remain using our stuff to treasure hunting.
How's that?

Hilarious, even more when you talk like a cowboy.

[Dave J.]

Rudy, why this obsession with facts and all their limitations and even uncertainties, when with a completely undisciplined mind you can make up anything and everything, and it can be anything you want? Facts take work to understand, so why bother? And anyway they're soooo boring. They don't give you what you want, they're so uncooperative! Worse yet, when you allow facts into your world, you lose control over reality, and how can a person possibly live without being in complete control of reality??!!

But not everyone's completely undisciplined mind is equal in creativity. If your creativity is not up to the job of making reality what you've decided it should be, Chuck's creativity will fill in the blanks, you can just use his when your own reaches its limits. He tells us stuff we want to hear, unlike those inconsiderate people who keep throwing facts at us! Y'know, the ones we deride as "skeptics" because they refuse to corroborate our fantasy world.

So Rudy, take a look at Art and Hung. They can have it their way, any time, just by making it up. We're still stuck mucking around with facts, and some of those we ain't quite certain about. How could we possibly not be filled with jealousy at what Art and Hung have achieved in their mastery of life? Screw facts, let's kiss Carl goodbye and go learn mastery of life from gurus Art and Hung!

--Dave J.

Damn, I'm so jealous of those guys!

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Dave J.

Rudy, why this obsession with facts and all their limitations and even uncertainties, when with a completely undisciplined mind you can make up anything and everything, and it can be anything you want? Facts take work to understand, so why bother? And anyway they're soooo boring. They don't give you what you want, they're so uncooperative! Worse yet, when you allow facts into your world, you lose control over reality, and how can a person possibly live without being in complete control of reality??!!

But not everyone's completely undisciplined mind is equal in creativity. If your creativity is not up to the job of making reality what you've decided it should be, Chuck's creativity will fill in the blanks, you can just use his when your own reaches its limits. He tells us stuff we want to hear, unlike those inconsiderate people who keep throwing facts at us! Y'know, the ones we deride as "skeptics" because they refuse to corroborate our fantasy world.

So Rudy, take a look at Art and Hung. They can have it their way, any time, just by making it up. We're still stuck mucking around with facts, and some of those we ain't quite certain about. How could we possibly not be filled with jealousy at what Art and Hung have achieved in their mastery of life? Screw facts, let's kiss Carl goodbye and go learn mastery of life from gurus Art and Hung!

--Dave J.

Damn, I'm so jealous of those guys!

You are right Dave. I see the light now. Facts are ... just facts.

My apologies to you and the other forum members.

I think I will take out a second mortgage on my house and buy one of these clever devices and find me some large gold deposit somewhere.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Rudy

The H3Tec marketing fluff says it works by the principle of "nano-ionic resonance", but the patent clearly states that it works using NMR. Obviously, both are wrong, The first term is made up , whilst NMR detection can not be achieved by the equipment design.

In fairness to their statement about needing the right isotopes, that is correct. Essentially, in order to exhibit an NMR effect, the nuclei of the atom must have the right combination of protons and neutrons so that it has a net non-zero spin. Different isotopes would have different NMR frequencies (or none at all).

Lastly, the NMR frequency scales linearly with the applied magnetic field. For example, a single proton (ie. hydrogen) has a NMR resonance of 900 MHz at a magnetic field of 21 Teslas, while it would have a frequency in the audio range when subjected only to the earth's magnetic field. As I mentioned in my analysis, the higher the magnetic field is, the better the NMR response in terms of signal energy and sharper resonance response. At earth's field the resonance is very broad and overlaps the response of other atoms with close magnetic moments (ie. loss of discrimination sensitivity) and the signal energy decreases to where it is obliterated by background and instrument noise.

The energy E = hv, where h is Plank's constant and v is the frequency. As you can see, the NMR signal from hydrogen in an earth's field NMR is over 10 million times smaller than if the hydrogen atom was surrounded by a 21 Tesla field.

This loss of signal energy is compounded by the fact that the wavelengths involved at these lower frequencies cannot be effectively radiated, or detected by the small dowsing rod elements used. Also, the low frequencies would not be very directional due to heir long wave fronts, making it impossible for the dowsing rod to really be able to pin point the location, even if the rest of the pseudo science worked, which it doesn't.

This effect is used in Earth's field NMR spectrometers and other instruments, because these instruments are portable and inexpensive, they are often used for teaching and field work. But is is necessary for the sample to be put inside a chamber, to measure the NMR. They can't detect any external NMR. It is simply impossible.

This is correct for nuclear magnetic resonance.

But there are two problems...

1. H3Tec is claiming the silver in Carl's bar does not contain the stable isotope of silver (Ag109) that their machine was set for, so it could not be detected. Is there such a thing as any silver on earth that does not have about half of this isotope, whether in coins, bars, silver plating, or silver compounds?

2. H3Tec is claiming the selected atoms are "excited" within the grid area (up to 10 miles) distant from their machine that is powered by two 9v batteries designed to last for 8 hours while also powering the internal processor and memory. Is this possible for two 9v batteries to broadcast that amount of energy for 8 hours while powering the internal electronics?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

This is correct for nuclear magnetic resonance.

Although the patent mentions NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) the device is claimed to work by NIR (Nano-Ionic Resonance) whatever that is. Which sounds suspiciously similar to Mineoro's theory of operation. The term "NIR" is also shown as a trademark on their website, which (as far as I can ascertain) has never been registered as a trademark.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Rudy

the NMR frequency scales linearly with the applied magnetic field. For example, a single proton (ie. hydrogen) has a NMR resonance of 900 MHz at a magnetic field of 21 Teslas, while it would have a frequency in the audio range when subjected only to the earth's magnetic field. As I mentioned in my analysis, the higher the magnetic field is, the better the NMR response in terms of signal energy and sharper resonance response. At earth's field the resonance is very broad and overlaps the response of other atoms with close magnetic moments (ie. loss of discrimination sensitivity) and the signal energy decreases to where it is obliterated by background and instrument noise.

No. Actually protons do have a better response to longer pulses when they receive weak magnetic field emanations.
Consider the classic NMR aproach done in hospitals where huge magnets are used to a particular purpose. But don't forget that this brute force can well be discarded for the same task employing optical NMR.
Remember, resonance is still resonance under weak or strong magnetic fields.

The energy E = hv, where h is Plank's constant and v is the frequency. As you can see, the NMR signal from hydrogen in an earth's field NMR is over 10 million times smaller than if the hydrogen atom was surrounded by a 21 Tesla field.

10,000 times. Not 10 million.

Loss of signal energy is compounded by the fact that the wavelengths involved at these lower frequencies cannot be effectively radiated, or detected by the small dowsing rod elements used.

Not only they can but also they should, as they are the fastest and practical mean to input those signals as I already posted, based on research done. They can be much more selective to noise in weak fields and currents than ordinary electronic 'parafernalia'.

Also, the low frequencies would not be very directional due to heir long wave fronts, making it impossible for the dowsing rod to really be able to pin point the location, even if the rest of the pseudo science worked, which it doesn't.

Again, the rods or needles, etc, are currently the most qualified sensors to deal with those low intensity fields and extreme long wavelenghts. At this very moment, an european apparatus with a giant loop and based on a russian model is employing the NMR principle but using earth's own magnetic fields and applying pulses of different lengths to receive responses from water molecules well bellow the underground.
Only problem is the noise they can still not get rid of as the field response decreases in amplitude when bellow 40 meters. This just does not happen with a 'dowsing rod' for the reasons I explained in my post to Dave. But it's going in the right direction.

This effect is used in Earth's field NMR spectrometers and other instruments, because these instruments are portable and inexpensive, they are often used for teaching and field work. But is is necessary for the sample to be put inside a chamber, to measure the NMR. They can't detect any external NMR. It is simply impossible.

The problem in what you post above is the misconcept of an electron as particle. I already talked about this here. By simply implying the photonic concept, we prove the electron is a wave and not a particle. If it was a particle its speed around the nucleous would be around 268 times the speed of light which is impossible. There is no particle and no quantum leap. The electron simply exists in the atom as a standing wave and as a wave it presents variable wavelength. And thus, everything changes and whole interactions of fields are natural.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by J_Player

This is correct for nuclear magnetic resonance.

But there are two problems...

1. H3Tec is claiming the silver in Carl's bar does not contain the stable isotope of silver (Ag109) that their machine was set for, so it could not be detected. Is there such a thing as any silver on earth that does not have about half of this isotope, whether in coins, bars, silver plating, or silver compounds?

Well, since the H3Tec folks are truthful and ethical folks, we could only conclude that Carl spent a fortune in centrifuging several metric tons of silver atoms, to accumulate enough of the rare isotope to smelt a silver bar with. How else could the instrument have been fooled?

2. H3Tec is claiming the selected atoms are "excited" within the grid area (up to 10 miles) distant from their machine that is powered by two 9v batteries designed to last for 8 hours while also powering the internal processor and memory. Is this possible for two 9v batteries to broadcast that amount of energy for 8 hours while powering the internal electronics?

Best wishes,
J_P

No, specially when the antenna (aka dowsing rod) is cut the wrong wavelength and pointed in the direction which provides the target the least amount of energy. Also, consider that the reflected signal energy density, small to begin with, is sent out by the target isotropically and the collecting antenna (aka dowsing rod) subtends an infinitesimally small arc of a sphere 10 mile in radius and the least sensitive part of the antenna is pointed in the direction of the signal.

Nope the 9 V batteries won't do it. The machine needs to be powered by a fuel cell fed by high octane organic bovine fertilizer in order to function.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

No. Actually protons do have a better response to longer pulses when they receive weak magnetic field emanations.
Consider the classic NMR aproach done in hospitals where huge magnets are used to a particular purpose. But don't forget that this brute force can well be discarded for the same task employing optical NMR.
Remember, resonance is still resonance under weak or strong magnetic fields.
10,000 times. Not 10 million. Not only they can but also they should, as they are the fastest and practical mean to input those signals as I already posted, based on research done. They can be much more selective to noise in weak fields and currents than ordinary electronic 'parafernalia'.
Again, the rods or needles, etc, are currently the most qualified sensors to deal with those low intensity fields and extreme long wavelenghts. At this very moment, an european apparatus with a giant loop and based on a russian model is employing the NMR principle but using earth's own magnetic fields and applying pulses of different lengths to receive responses from water molecules well bellow the underground.
Only problem is the noise they can still not get rid of as the field response decreases in amplitude when bellow 40 meters. This just does not happen with a 'dowsing rod' for the reasons I explained in my post to Dave. But it's going in the right direction.
The problem in what you post above is the misconcept of an electron as particle. I already talked about this here. By simply implying the photonic concept, we prove the electron is a wave and not a particle. If it was a particle its speed around the nucleous would be around 268 times the speed of light which is impossible. There is no particle and no quantum leap. The electron simply exists in the atom as a standing wave and as a wave it presents variable wavelength. And thus, everything changes and whole interactions of fields are natural.

Sometimes you become almost lucid. It's as if someone else is posting on your behalf.
Either that, or the cut-and-paste method is working well.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by hung

No. Actually protons do have a better response to longer pulses when they receive weak magnetic field emanations.
Consider the classic NMR aproach done in hospitals where huge magnets are used to a particular purpose. But don't forget that this brute force can well be discarded for the same task employing optical NMR.

Your assertion of proton response to pulse width is immaterial. What pulse width? The patent discusses what is known as continuous NMR and not Fourier spectrum or pulsed NMR. Yes, in a pulsed NMR under earth sized magnetic field, the pulse width needs to be wide enough to have a fundamental and or low harmonics in the range of the NMR frequency at the low magnetic field. But the patent discusses continuous NMR, were an RF signal is used, as in a sinusoid, not a pulse. This is further elaborated in the patent where building the circuitry with OP amps and band-pass filters are used in the preferrred embodiment.

Are you saying the dowsing rod is really a fiber optic device?

Remember, resonance is still resonance under weak or strong magnetic fields.

Yes it is. As long as you know about resonance, can you explain what "Q" is in relation to resonance?

10,000 times. Not 10 million. Not only they can but also they should, as they are the fastest and practical mean to input those signals as I already posted, based on research done. They can be much more selective to noise in weak fields and currents than ordinary electronic 'parafernalia'.

The NMR frequency goes from 900,000,000 Hertz at 21 Teslas, to audio range, say 20,000 Hz at earth's field. Since the photon energy is given by its frequency, I'll let you divide the two numbers yourself.

The problem in what you post above is the misconcept of an electron as particle. I already talked about this here. By simply implying the photonic concept, we prove the electron is a wave and not a particle. If it was a particle its speed around the nucleous would be around 268 times the speed of light which is impossible. There is no particle and no quantum leap. The electron simply exists in the atom as a standing wave and as a wave it presents variable wavelength. And thus, everything changes and whole interactions of fields are natural.

I never mentioned electrons. I was discussing Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (Keyword underlined), as in nuclei. Nothing to do with electrons. Just the magnetic dipole of the nucleus of the atoms.

I don't really care (in the context of the H3Tec) how fast electrons move around the nucleus, nor wether you to take into consideration their relativistic mass as they orbit. It has nothing to do with the discussion.

If you want to discuss the particle/wave duality of matter, a subject dear to my heart, maybe you should start a new thread in the appropriate board?

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Although the patent mentions NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) the device is claimed to work by NIR (Nano-Ionic Resonance) whatever that is. Which sounds suspiciously similar to Mineoro's theory of operation. The term "NIR" is also shown as a trademark on their website, which (as far as I can ascertain) has never been registered as a trademark.

Me thinks that since Nuclear Magnetic Resonance was a descriptive phrase already in the public domain, they needed to find an alternative jazzy phrase that they could trademark to create product differentiation in the mind of the gullible. That is, "Why is my expensive dowsing rod different than the other expensive dowsing rods?" Note that saying "My expensive dowsing rod doesn't work any better than the other expensive dowsing rods in the market." Is not conducive to sales.

™ doesn't need to be registered with the patent & trademark office. Only ® has to be registered with them.

[hung]

'Nothing to do with electrons'... Really?? He,he,he,..
Next you will also say the outdated standard model will explain everything without even considering torsion, right?

I quit.
Some of us are like animals that were kept in captivity almost the whole life, and then when the gate is open, they don't know what to do.


PS. Meanwhile over TNET Ike has put Carl's back against the wall with a VERY interesting challenge. Much more than Carl's own BS.
Let's see how it develops.

Bye Geoskepthic.