Bionic 01 Video

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
I think that we say the "same". Where is the problem if Carl go to Paraguay to see with his eyes the LRL???? If Carl go and see the LRLs from Esteban, i don't need videos to believe him. If Carl will say don't work, for me will be the same as i had saw it.

Regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
I think that we say the "same". Where is the problem if Carl go to Paraguay to see with his eyes the LRL???? If Carl go and see the LRLs from Esteban, i don't need videos to believe him. If Carl will say don't work, for me will be the same as i had saw it.

Regards

Hi Geo,
I would believe a report that Carl made also.
He is the strongest skeptic who wants to see real proof instead of videos.
So if he says it works, then I will believe he is telling a true story after making many tests.
There are only two problems of Carl going to Paraguay:

1. Carl's travel plans do not include going to places in South America for now. From Carl's post above:
"I've offered to visit Dell, Mike-Mont, Art, and others. Sorry, South America is not on my list right now".

2. Any plans to win $25,000 will not happen, because the prize contest was suspended some time ago:
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...ile=reward.dat
Until this prize is reinstated, any demonstrations are only done for the purpose of demonstration, not to win money.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Geo,
I would believe a report that Carl made also.
He is the strongest skeptic who wants to see real proof instead of videos.
So if he says it works, then I will believe he is telling a true story after making many tests.
There are only two problems of Carl going to Paraguay:

1. Carl's travel plans do not include going to places in South America for now. From Carl's post above:
"I've offered to visit Dell, Mike-Mont, Art, and others. Sorry, South America is not on my list right now".

2. Any plans to win $25,000 will not happen, because the prize contest was suspended some time ago:
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...ile=reward.dat
Until this prize is reinstated, any demonstrations are only done for the purpose of demonstration, not to win money.

Best wishes,
J_P

So...., what are we doing now

Regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

So...., what are we doing now

Regards

Hi Geo,
I don't know what you are doing, but I am watching a video of the Bionic 01 detecting a shovel at long range, and waiting to see what Putrechigi says after he sees it demonstrated to find buried gold instead of a different target located near the buried gold.


Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Geo

I have not so perfect LRL, so to make public presentations. But i believe that the Esreban's video is true, so it is more cheap for Carl to go a travel to Paraguay and see the Esteban's LRL to work than to pay 25000 $.
What are you think about it???

I dont't have right to speak and decide in Carl's name, i am not his advocate too, but...don't you think that trip to Paraguay is a bit expensive and time consuming? It is not just a trip to next place, few miles away! And for what? Just to check some suspicious claims!? With respect to Esteban....but we do not know who is Esteban for real and what are his intentions. All we know is that Esteban is member here, pretty descent guy most of the time..except when LRL comes to be subject!
God only knows what is in Esteban's head for real!? Or your? On my?
My point is that it is not piece of cake simply to catch a plane and go to Paraguay just like that!
Carl could face same situation as you faced visiting Morgan; previously good prepared conditions and field where tested LRL subject could show real "performances".
Real test would be to "surprise" Esteban (or any other LRL proponent) by visiting (or inviting) him to some neutral place where situation is unknown for both sides and unprepared by any side.
For example; Esteban and Carl both can come to third place and perform very objective test on unknown and uprepared soil and conditions.
Somewhere in the middle between Oregon and Paraguay. Fair enough.

[ivconic]

Ok here are calculations!

Straight air distance between Sweet Home (OR) and Asuncion (Paraguay) is approx 6.300 miles (10.150 km). So..Carl and Esteban should meet in the middle....somewhere between Managua and San Jose. Fair enough!
Do we have some member there? Between Managua (Nicaragua) and San Jose (Costa Rica)? Some descent member to be third person and to rush and host those guys?
C'mon!

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ivconic

I dont't have right to speak and decide in Carl's name, i am not his advocate too, but...don't you think that trip to Paraguay is a bit expensive and time consuming? It is not just a trip to next place, few miles away! And for what? Just to check some suspicious claims!? With respect to Esteban....but we do not know who is Esteban for real and what are his intentions. All we know is that Esteban is member here, pretty descent guy most of the time..except when LRL comes to be subject!
God only knows what is in Esteban's head for real!? Or your? On my?
My point is that it is not piece of cake simply to catch a plane and go to Paraguay just like that!
Carl could face same situation as you faced visiting Morgan; previously good prepared conditions and field where tested LRL subject could show real "performances".
Real test would be to "surprise" Esteban (or any other LRL proponent) by visiting (or inviting) him to some neutral place where situation is unknown for both sides and unprepared by any side.
For example; Esteban and Carl both can come to third place and perform very objective test on unknown and uprepared soil and conditions.
Somewhere in the middle between Oregon and Paraguay. Fair enough.

I don't agree with "both can come to third place "...
As you know i do not sell detectors or LRLs so i am interesting only for the true and nothing else. So i would like to see a test at Paraguay where Esteban shows a lrl to work (at conditions of Paraguay), and why not after it at a third place as you wrote....
I saw LRLs to work, so i take this position!!!. But LRLs don't work so good and every time as metal detectors works, so this is the reason that i want to see test at more places.... to understand what is happening.

[ivconic]

Ha! Weak argument!

White's DFX (Oregon,USA) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia) !!!
Minelab Explorer SE (Australia) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
Cscope 1220B (UK) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
.....
Do you need more arguments?

[Geo]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Geo,
I don't know what you are doing, but I am watching a video of the Bionic 01 detecting a shovel at long range, and waiting to see what Putrechigi says after he sees it demonstrated to find buried gold instead of a different target located near the buried gold.


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
I wrote my position with my experience from Bionic Alfa. I am not sure about Bionic01, but the Japan laser that i saw, worked very easy compared to Bionic. It did not like the beam to be exactly on the object, but if the "line" was up of the object then you had a strong beep.

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Ha! Weak argument!

White's DFX (Oregon,USA) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia) !!!
Minelab Explorer SE (Australia) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
Cscope 1220B (UK) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
.....
Do you need more arguments?

somewhere you tangled them

[ivconic]

"....But LRLs don't work so good and every time as metal detectors works, so this is the reason that i want to see test at more places.... to understand what is happening...."

LRLs don't work at all, that's the problem.

What is happening..? Many things are hapening, most of all is trick of the mind. LRL's like PD pistol and simillar are "receiving" all the possible hums, mums and interferences, radio waves etc...etc... You may say that PD pistol was "selective" than, when you tested it. It beeped only in one direction. I agree. It's musty design offers enough adjustments to prevent all arround reception. Use of ferrite antena and conventional search coil and by adjusting it can preserve certain "selectivity", so it can beep only to one direction. I put many remarks on videos you recorded there. I don't want to repeat myself. But it is obvious that PD can not detect nothing 20-30cm away from search coil surface. "Detection" we saw on those videos is fake.
It was just simple directional respond to some distant signal, nothing else.
Same thing with Zahori...it responds to power lines at more distance than PD. I "detected" HV power line at 120 meters with my latest Zahori. But i was not fooled to beleive that it is detecting something passive and burried into soil.
And Zahori also showed perfect directional sensitivity. I could record video clip also, with claims that Zahori detects some ...ring or coin. I could place that ring or coin in direction to power line and swinging with Zahori i could show and "prove" real detection in front of the camera.
Same thing with various Esteban's IR,FM,AM,VHF,UHF,LF...etc...etc LRL devices, he already presented here on these forums.
It doesn't really matter which method person will use to make such LRL detector. In all cases it is sensitivity on (and detection of) some interference, some field, some hum, mum or radio wave. In all cases! I guarantee!
No matter if IR was used or FM or whatever...same principle either.
Basically those are always based on some ultra high impendance inputs, pretty sensitive even to smallest charge. The rest of job at such devices is just how to "chasten" those wild signals and how to make device directionaly sensitive.....end of a story, end of a secret. Big deal!
If i was there with you i would take PD from Morgan's hands and i would walk with it far away from Morgan's place and search for any other "signal". Each eventuall signal i would try to explore and distinguish it's source.
Pitty...i couldn't afford to come with you. My problem, not your.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Video clips are not good proofs. We must realize that once for all. No matter what is presented on video.
Like Carl said; most convinced can be if see presentation in person. Even than; presentation must be done in fair and objective manner. Spectators must have chance to suggest the way of testing and presenting.
I have been attendant at many simillar presentations in the past. I've seen all the common tricks that people can perform during presentations. Usually, tricks are purposely performed to trick spectators. But also i've seen unpurposely tricks of the mind of performer. Some dowsers are stil not awared how easily they becoming victims of trick of the mind in those situations. In several cases i helped to few of them to finaly understand that it was plain trick of the mind and nothing else.
So...bottom line is fact that video clips are not proofs at all. Everything can be arranged to "prove" or "disaprove" some situation, in video clip.
More you talk and more you rely on clips - more questions and doubts you can expect.
.......
If you really have revolutionary design and you really are sure in its functionallity - than once for all accept regular ways to present it to public.
Organize public presentations and be ready to answer all the possible questions.

No trick has been done! This will be against only me...

[Esteban]

In some part of private RS forum I invite the members for to travel to Mexico for to meet with Mr. Alonso and see the electronic LRL in action in real field. Nobody respond... Mexico is near USA. Nobody has interest... maybe.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by J_Player

What !!?
Are you sure every single demonstration of an LRL failed when TNEt LRL enthusiasts tried to demonstrate their LRLs working?

What does this mean? Is hung wrong when he says "they proved you wrong many times"?
How come these LRL enthusiasts didn't make any mention of how they failed at every single LRL demonstration?
Now I am starting to wonder....

I've witnessed and tested a number of people, including a few who have, at one time or another, been part of the TNet LRL forum. None of those people hang out there now, have no idea why.

I think Hung is trying to argue that they've "proved me wrong" with their words and testimonials. Probably in the same way that Hung has proven the operation of Mineoro LRLs with all the gold he has recovered with them.

Originally Posted by Geo

But i believe that the Esreban's video is true, so it is more cheap for Carl to go a travel to Paraguay and see the Esteban's LRL to work than to pay 25000 $.

Lots and lots of people claim to have a "really works" LRL, or claim to be proficient dowsers. Being skeptical of these claims, I get a lot of flack from some people for not being willing to visit each and every claimant so they can prove me wrong. But I just can't afford to travel to each and every wannabedowser. That's why, when I created my challenge prize, I limited it to known manufacturers.

Of everyone I know of dabbling in LRLs, Esteban is the one who intrigues me the most. I would like to meet up with him and see what he has. I can't do it this year for certain, but maybe 2011 will be a little kinder.

- Carl

[detectoman]

hola esteban, mira yo te agradezco tu invitacion como cuando dijistes que alonso estaria en veracruz, pero mira yo tengo otras prioridades y no estoy en condiciones de ir, pues debo dedicar mi tiempo a acciones alturistas, a luchar contra el calentamiento global, y bueno, no puedo aunque si me gustaria, pero de todos modos yo no necesito comprobaciones de esto, se que funciona, y me basta!, y bueno no es la ocasion, pero te repito mis agradecimientos por tu invitacion, otra vez sera, ahora hay otras prioridades, ademas todo eso representaria gastos y tiempo invertido y alejarse de la familia, ahi estamos! muchas gracias

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ivconic

"....But LRLs don't work so good and every time as metal detectors works, so this is the reason that i want to see test at more places.... to understand what is happening...."

LRLs don't work at all, that's the problem.

What is happening..? Many things are hapening, most of all is trick of the mind. LRL's like PD pistol and simillar are "receiving" all the possible hums, mums and interferences, radio waves etc...etc... You may say that PD pistol was "selective" than, when you tested it. It beeped only in one direction. I agree. It's musty design offers enough adjustments to prevent all arround reception. Use of ferrite antena and conventional search coil and by adjusting it can preserve certain "selectivity", so it can beep only to one direction. I put many remarks on videos you recorded there. I don't want to repeat myself. But it is obvious that PD can not detect nothing 20-30cm away from search coil surface. "Detection" we saw on those videos is fake.
It was just simple directional respond to some distant signal, nothing else.
Same thing with Zahori...it responds to power lines at more distance than PD. I "detected" HV power line at 120 meters with my latest Zahori. But i was not fooled to beleive that it is detecting something passive and burried into soil.
And Zahori also showed perfect directional sensitivity. I could record video clip also, with claims that Zahori detects some ...ring or coin. I could place that ring or coin in direction to power line and swinging with Zahori i could show and "prove" real detection in front of the camera.
Same thing with various Esteban's IR,FM,AM,VHF,UHF,LF...etc...etc LRL devices, he already presented here on these forums.
It doesn't really matter which method person will use to make such LRL detector. In all cases it is sensitivity on (and detection of) some interference, some field, some hum, mum or radio wave. In all cases! I guarantee!
No matter if IR was used or FM or whatever...same principle either.
Basically those are always based on some ultra high impendance inputs, pretty sensitive even to smallest charge. The rest of job at such devices is just how to "chasten" those wild signals and how to make device directionaly sensitive.....end of a story, end of a secret. Big deal!
If i was there with you i would take PD from Morgan's hands and i would walk with it far away from Morgan's place and search for any other "signal". Each eventuall signal i would try to explore and distinguish it's source.
Pitty...i couldn't afford to come with you. My problem, not your.

I don't agree. PD working to all directions. I don't remember if this is showing at video, but at second case (foil), it detected it from North to South from 3m distance and from the other directions from 1m.
Zahori and PD are not the same thing. I found two old buried objects with my PD, so i know for what i speak.
About Esteban.... i can't speak for him, He is Here......
I close this thread for PD, but because i want to be fair with Morgan, i must tell that Morgan told me to go next day at mountain for treasure hunting with PD and i did not went, because i saw what i wanted to saw.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Of everyone I know of dabbling in LRLs, Esteban is the one who intrigues me the most. I would like to meet up with him and see what he has. I can't do it this year for certain, but maybe 2011 will be a little kinder.

- Carl

I will wait!!!!!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

I don't agree. PD working to all directions. I don't remember if this is showing at video, but at second case (foil), it detected it from North to South from 3m distance and from the other directions from 1m.
Zahori and PD are not the same thing. I found two old buried objects with my PD, so i know for what i speak.
About Esteban.... i can't speak for him, He is Here......
I close this thread for PD, but because i want to be fair with Morgan, i must tell that Morgan told me to go next day at mountain for treasure hunting with PD and i did not went, because i saw what i wanted to saw.

Hi Geo,
What you did is exactly what other people should do. You should go to see the machine working with your own eyes, and test it with your own hands. After you try it with your own hands, if you become convinced it is helping you to find treasure, then you should use it for finding treasure. It is not your job to convince other people. If others want proof, then they can try it with their own hands the same as you did. This is the only proof. No video can prove it will work for you on a treasure hunt the same as if you try it yourself.

You are correct. Nobody needs to speak for Esteban. I have no reason to believe he made false claims or fake videos. He is unlike other LRL enthusiasts. He has built more experimental LRLs than any other person I know of in this forum, with maybe you in second place for building a lot of different LRLs. This tells me that he and you are at least serious about your commitment to LRL experiments. There are others who also built LRLs here. In fact, Ivconic was the first person in Geotech I can remember posting a complete circuit for an LRL. (The problem with that design is it was good for locating static electricity, but not buried treasure). Maybe this is part of the reason why he is not a believer.

For Esteban, he has proved to himself and his friends that his LRLs work. But his talk and videos are not the same as seeing his LRLs locate treasure with your own hands. So they are not proof for other people who did not see. I would like to see his LRLs find treasure. If Alonso will be going to Veracruz in the future, then maybe I can go to Veracruz when he can make a demonstration. It depends a lot on scheduling. If Esteban wants people to see these LRLs work, then maybe he can tell when and where to go to see this demonstration. Actually, I would prefer to see Estaban's LRLs working. Maybe Esteban will be traveling to Mexico sometime in 2010?

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Geo

I don't agree. PD working to all directions. I don't remember if this is showing at video, but at second case (foil), it detected it from North to South from 3m distance and from the other directions from 1m.
Zahori and PD are not the same thing. I found two old buried objects with my PD, so i know for what i speak.
About Esteban.... i can't speak for him, He is Here......
I close this thread for PD, but because i want to be fair with Morgan, i must tell that Morgan told me to go next day at mountain for treasure hunting with PD and i did not went, because i saw what i wanted to saw.

Seems you didn't understand me. When i said "directional" i ment one direction at the time. As i remember (to lazy to watch those clips again) when Morgan located that Al paper, behavior of PD was "directional" which is good - not bad. PD cleary indicated direction where paper was located.
That's what i ment by "directional".
Of course Zahori and PD are not the same. I am not saying those were the same!!?
But if we take simplified and principal look at those 2 devices, those are based on same kind of functionality. High impendance inputs. This means those are very sensitive to any kind of charge.
Another huge difference ; at least Zahori is useable, PD is useless 100%.
Zahori was desinged back in '70. in Germany by E.E. and its initial role was to locate current leaks in power lines.
PD is B.S. based on obsolete metal detector design with addition of 100% nonsenced ferrite antena receiver.
Those are differences.
Geo, again, you may beleive what ever you want. Time will pass until you realize how wrong are you. That's your problem,not my.

[ivconic]

LRL idealists can become obsessive in time. More you experiment - more you have impression that "it is it". Terrible trick of the mind! Horrible! After years of practicing and experimenting with LRL man is completely lost. He lives and die in conviction that LRL is real thing but "only one step left to make it real".
I know few LRL'st who already aged and died in hard convictions that LRL is real thing. Only problem is that those actually never located NOTHING with their numerous LRL designs. I am not joking here at all. Take this very seriously. I just tried to give my humble contribution on these forums, hoping that it will have some influence and turn few people away from such stupid ideas. Life is short. Use it smarter. LRL (the way it is understood here) is 100% waste of time. Waste of time, energy and money.
I tried....have nothing to regret for.
Regards!

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Esteban

No trick has been done! This will be against only me...

Hi Esteban,

trick is that you alone are against yourself, but you do not notice about this.

You do not hiding the actual content of your comics design because of a trade secrets, but because you know that people are laughing, if you fully disclosed any of these phenomenal secret plans. By doing so, you only validate that they are what they are, only nonworking construction comics.

You do not need trick, no believers need trick to belive.

You need only dream and hope, nothing else.

Esteban you have unlimited right to your dream and hope, but please do not sell your dream and hope to others, because by this you only help to sell expensive and crappy mineoros like boxes to other naive dreamer.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by ivconic

LRL idealists can become obsessive in time. More you experiment - more you have impression that "it is it". Terrible trick of the mind! Horrible! After years of practicing and experimenting with LRL man is completely lost. He lives and die in conviction that LRL is real thing but "only one step left to make it real".
I know few LRL'st who already aged and died in hard convictions that LRL is real thing. Only problem is that those actually never located NOTHING with their numerous LRL designs. I am not joking here at all. Take this very seriously. I just tried to give my humble contribution on these forums, hoping that it will have some influence and turn few people away from such stupid ideas. Life is short. Use it smarter. LRL (the way it is understood here) is 100% waste of time. Waste of time, energy and money.
I tried....have nothing to regret for.
Regards!

Hi ivconic,

I am sure, if one here are open-minded, you are.

But please note that there is a barrier constructed of phenomenal phenomenon over which we ordinary skeptics can not see.

One must be believer that they get open sight to second dimension of live phenomenon.

[Esteban]

If Mr. Alonso travel again to Mexico, I'll inform you. I'll provide telephone number and other address infos for to meet with him and go in minitrip. He travel to Veracruz several times.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

I've witnessed and tested a number of people, including a few who have, at one time or another, been part of the TNet LRL forum. None of those people hang out there now, have no idea why.

I think Hung is trying to argue that they've "proved me wrong" with their words and testimonials. Probably in the same way that Hung has proven the operation of Mineoro LRLs with all the gold he has recovered with them.



Lots and lots of people claim to have a "really works" LRL, or claim to be proficient dowsers. Being skeptical of these claims, I get a lot of flack from some people for not being willing to visit each and every claimant so they can prove me wrong. But I just can't afford to travel to each and every wannabedowser. That's why, when I created my challenge prize, I limited it to known manufacturers.

Of everyone I know of dabbling in LRLs, Esteban is the one who intrigues me the most. I would like to meet up with him and see what he has. I can't do it this year for certain, but maybe 2011 will be a little kinder.

- Carl

The most important is to performed these tests not in my country... better in your territory. Somebody also suggest we plant the targets and beep remotely the pistol.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Zahori was desinged back in '70. in Germany by E.E. and its initial role was to locate current leaks in power lines.

According to the original article the Zahori was designed as an electronic version of a dowsing rod for finding underground water. In fact, the word "zahori" means "dowser". As a reminder, I have attached the article that I translated from Spanish into English.