Help for build one LRL...

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by michael

Ok, good, so what? it's confirmative of what I put above.
thank you for that. I told you are atheist and this link confirms it more and is attributed to all people who believe in god you call them all "solid and frozen mind".

OK, let take a look on your brilliant mind :
you are disciple of this Idea: "seeing is believing" here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=12663&page=2 #46
so if you admit your own word, and still stand on your words you should never believe in much more invisible things e.g. any kind of waves in ordinary human science realm; radar, wireless, radio and ....... waves.
If your answer be :"I realize to these based on their effects, cos I see their work" ,
Ok, it’s what we tell about other invisible things: " we realize to god existence based on all of his creatures."
and also to jinns based on their effects, but with a great difference; god never can be or have been seen by no one whereas jinns can be seen by some rare especial persons.

when you conclude: "they don't exist cos I don't see" is from serious problem in the logic and analogy part of your mind that is closed and...... ,see? such mind not merit to work on.
now call yourself open-minded???? which is very funny.
of course I never like to get you or any guy like you believed these, no, it's useless for me.
If you believe it what will I catch? so better you remain in that level and enjoy of your brilliant mind abilities.

every time I put this info is only for guys who believes them but ignorant about their reactions in THing, as most people in Middle East believe in jinns and Vistac is one of them tried to put for him/her to be cautious
otherwise for atheists is as if blowing in a cage.

Please correct me if I got the wrong understanding from this particular posting of yours; but are you concluding that if a person does not believe in your Jinns, then by default they must also be of a closed-mind and be an atheist?

[Qiaozhi]

Please can I remind you all of the original purpose of the Remote Sensing Forum:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Please correct me if I got the wrong understanding from this particular posting of yours; but are you concluding that if a person does not believe in your Jinns, then by default they must also be of a closed-mind and be an atheist?

From what I read, michael has not made that conclusion.

Michael referenced a post above whereby 1843 described his discussions with people who have strong religious beliefs:

Originally Posted by 1843

I've been discussed about religin, believes,... with those narrow-minded! poeple for a few years, but no one could change their mind... In my opinion they have an absolute solid and frozen mind!

After quoting 1843's concept of people who had religious beliefs being "frozen minded", he then went on to examine 1843's supposed preference for the concept that "seeing is believing". Michael's argument is that some people must "see before they will believe", or else that will refuse to believe. Michael suggests people who must see before they will believe may have a hard time believing that invisible things could exist. Not only Jinns, or dieties, but other things such as electricity, magnetism, EM waves, etc.

His point is that most scientifically educated people believe in the invisible energies used from electricity, magnetism, EM waves because they can see the secondary effects of these forms of energy which are visible, even when they can't see the energy itself. His implication is that 1843 is not among those who will be satisfied to believe after only seeing the secondary effects of things that are invisible, whether it is some form of energy, a diety, or a Jinn.

Any interperetation that "if a person does not believe in your Jinns, then by default they must also be of a closed-mind and be an atheist" is simply an inference that a reader may erroneously draw after reading what michael wrote.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Please can I remind you all of the original purpose of the Remote Sensing Forum:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

They have?
But I thought you were not able to see what is written in the forum when the subject of Jinns is part of the post:

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Sorry ... cannot hear you.
My Jinn filter is working at full capacity.

Actually, I don't see any attacks on people here. just a questioning of beliefs, one of which happens to be religious. The real discussion relates to precautions that may be warranted when recovering deep treasures in the Middle East.

There is no religious debate here. The information that Vistac2000 asked for has been given, and the remaining discussion is only about details, such as the identity of the person who started the forum thread, and a precaution that one poster feels is important. The reference of religion is not about the theology or dogma of any particular religion, in fact it is not about religion at all. It is a discussion about the ontology and epistemology of the sciences being put forward in order to reason with people who are challenging the posted experiences.

The question is whether this is a good subject to include in a remote sensing forum?
I think yes. Especially when a member has been misquoted by another in order to make his challenges look more convincing. And isn't this what epistemology is all about anyway? Determining the nature of knowledge, and what we should accept or not accept? My opinion is we should start with accurate information, rather than re-writing what others say they have observed, concluded, etc. to mean something different.

I have seen entire threads in this remote sensing forum dedicated only to the football games. So what is wrong with looking a little closer into what some members consider a legitimate concern for treasure hunters who requested a long range locator plan?

Apparently some people cannot tolerate reading posts that describe experiences of things that are not seen by most people, and the option to turn on their filters and play "ostrich" became a suitable solution. The head buried in the sand is good insulation to prevent reading or answering any unwanted questions in a forum thread.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Please can I remind you all of the original purpose of the Remote Sensing Forum:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

I see your point, and I won't be making any additional comments to this, or related threads.

My initial knee-jerk reaction was in response to what appeared to be a conclusion or axiom stating that if I (or others) couldn't believe in Jinns then we must be closed-minded and also an atheist. Perhaps my interpretation of the comment was in error, but certainly the inferences were there - I didn't make them up.

In either case, I'm considering the topic closed.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

There is no religious debate here.

... and let's keep it that way.

[1843]

I respect the Qiaozhi's note; so I don't argue anymore.
Michael, you can open a new thread regarding Jinns!

[michael]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Please correct me if I got the wrong understanding from this particular posting of yours; but are you concluding that if a person does not believe in your Jinns, then by default they must also be of a closed-mind and be an atheist?

absolutely no, J-Player gave the best answer. I referred to 1843 opinions that based on his clear statements, he is a right instance of atheist cos he believes in nothing; god,...
man, be a little more careful of your misquotations.
meanwhile they are not my jinns, they're god jinns/creatures.

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Please can I remind you all of the original purpose of the Remote Sensing Forum:
The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

this was not religious debate, at all. and as an aside from first what I see in this thread is less for technical discussions.
Meantime what I said anyway is concerned to THing and is not less important than a detector for who works in Middle East. this is like I prevent a THer of going to a especial place so that there are a plenty of hyenas or poisonous snakes, some body call it religious debate. it's an ordinary precaution concern to THing.
The best and complete answers been given by J-Player which I couldn't induct my comments such appropriate. Thank you man.

Originally Posted by 1843

Michael, you can open a new thread regarding Jinns!

Yes sir, I was waiting for your orders.

I never had decision to elongate discussions about this matter to this point, I just wanted to warn a guy with a post, some friends with their questions/curiosity and some like you with ridiculing ,pushed me to put more posts. Any independent person with reading the posts will realize my purpose was honesty pure not to show off.

anyway I see no necessary not to answer to questioner about this matter here or anywhere else. I will answer him honesty to god based on what I've experienced personally not dream or fancy.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by michael

...this was not religious debate, at all. and as an aside from first what I see in this thread is less for technical discussions.
Meantime what I said anyway is concerned to THing and is not less important than a detector for who works in Middle East. this is like I prevent a THer of going to a especial place so that there are a plenty of hyenas or poisonous snakes, some body call it religious debate. it's an ordinary precaution concern to THing.

On the subject of misquoting:

What I said was: "The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

I did not say that it had actually become a religious debate, but I can see it heading that way, with some members calling others atheists or whatever. You can continue discussing Jinns (if you must) but I have already stated my own position concerning this nonsense. If anyone else has a strong opinion, I suggest that you do the same ... state your case and move on.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by michael

man, be a little more careful of your misquotations.

I didn't say it was a direct quote; that's why I calmly asked you in the first place if I misunderstood your meaning. My words were......

Please correct me if I got the wrong understanding from this particular posting of yours....

[1843]

Originally Posted by michael

Yes sir, I was waiting for your orders.

I never had decision to elongate discussions about this matter to this point, I just wanted to warn a guy with a post, some friends with their questions/curiosity and some like you with ridiculing ,pushed me to put more posts. Any independent person with reading the posts will realize my purpose was honesty pure not to show off.

anyway I see no necessary not to answer to questioner about this matter here or anywhere else. I will answer him honesty to god based on what I've experienced personally not dream or fancy.

Michael,

I see a very bad misunderstanding of all my words from you. I need to collect all my posts and your responses to them so that I can make anything clear.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

On the subject of misquoting:

What I said was: "The discussions here have wandered far from the original purpose of the forum, and are rapidly degrading into a religious debate. Please refrain from personal attacks and try to get back to technical discussions.

I did not say that it had actually become a religious debate, but I can see it heading that way, with some members calling others atheists or whatever. You can continue discussing Jinns (if you must) but I have already stated my own position concerning this nonsense. If anyone else has a strong opinion, I suggest that you do the same ... state your case and move on.

I don't see any misquote concerning religion.
Are you sure your misquote is not from your previous post, just before you turned on your "Jinn filter"?

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The fanciful idea that there are some mysterious spirits living underground, whose only purpose for existing is to stop people finding deliberately buried gold, is total poppycock. End of story.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

As I said ... end of story.

[Esteban]

So, the jinns keep the mines and the treasures? The 7 dwarfs are the miners in brothers Grimm's thale... In many cultures is similar.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

So, the jinns keep the mines and the treasures? The 7 dwarfs are the miners in brothers Grimm's thale... In many cultures is similar.

Hi Esteban,
I have read stories from Ireland where leprechauns hide gold from people. Do you think leprechauns are Jinns, or only a similar story?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Esteban,
I have read stories from Ireland where leprechauns hide gold from people. Do you think leprechauns are Jinns, or only a similar story?

Best wishes,
J_P

All similar stories... If you search in internet, you'll find similar stories, in Europe many...

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

All similar stories... If you search in internet, you'll find similar stories, in Europe many...

Maybe these stories can explain the reason why people report Mineoro is not finding treasures in Europe and other places where we hear these stories. If a treasure is moved after first detecting it, then recovery will be impossible regardless of whether it was detected by a conventional detector or LRL. Some people will conclude that there never was a treasure at all, only a false signal. But others will conclude the treasure was moved by Jinns, or other strange creatures like leprechauns. Of course, if these strange creatures don't exist in South America, then there will be no treasures lost because they were moved during the attempt to recover them.
There are none of these stories from Paraguay and Brazil?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Maybe these stories can explain the reason why people report Mineoro is not finding treasures in Europe and other places where we hear these stories. If a treasure is moved after first detecting it, then recovery will be impossible regardless of whether it was detected by a conventional detector or LRL. Some people will conclude that there never was a treasure at all, only a false signal. But others will conclude the treasure was moved by Jinns, or other strange creatures like leprechauns. Of course, if these strange creatures don't exist in South America, then there will be no treasures lost because they were moved during the attempt to recover them.
There are none of these stories from Paraguay and Brazil?

Best wishes,
J_P

I guess there is the Jinn that bring them the treasure!

These are particular places... and LRLs there heve special powers...

Kind regards,
Max

[1843]

Originally Posted by michael

It began with a sever headache that suddenly occurred to me and afterward
My ankle began to feeling burning ended to sever pain. It was entirely unnatural and unprecedented weird event for me along my life by this time.
So my partners sent down the cable of lift and lifted me up. Headache lasted less than 2 days but ankle pain about 3 months which I couldn’t walk appropriately or even sit.
The interesting thing in my ankle was I never had any sign of inflammatory reactions, nothing.

The Guru told this point that; for first alarm, their very slight hit is on ankle and head of human. They do some thing like tickling with a finger. If they strike a little tough will definitely kill human and these creatures themselves avoid of human killing as much as possible, especially when they know human is really ignorant of existence of them at the place.
Anyway that’s a strange subject that we can’t understand or realize their behaviors. You see, if human had their abilities and powers what would do with them? Would definitely exploited of power (what is doing every day against animals, plants and…) , but jinns are very patient, reasonable with high control on their actions and nerve. They respect and observe their own rules strictly and never break their rules. Really strange.

Originally Posted by michael

Hi dear J_Player.
some parts of your comments are right, but jinns are living all around the world without many of human limitations;
they don't need vehicle to transport, they move very fast and can go to other points of world easily of course have their own rules, tribes, boss and very careful in observing their rules and boss.
e.g. one of their rules is: "never annoy or molest human unless they make problem for you and aggress."
one of the very rare places human can make problem that is unpleasant for them is treasure hunting( of course in very professional level at great depths or sometimes at medium depths) this will provoke them to react; they can easily affect on human mind (chakrah) to discourage us this is first step.
next step is a little hit like what did with me; make very sever headache and a very sever pain on my ankle, which I couldn't sit for 2 months, if human proceeds, will make strange voices like loud crying or screaming to make you give up, and if again persist, will hurt seriously; as they are incredibly powerful will kill immediately.

I wrote this previously here;
one friend told me he has seen burnt body like a charcoal at bottom of a dug well on a treasure point. Although in some cases they move treasure very fast to another point.
of course there are very unknown aspects of these strange creatures which very rare humans know about like our Guru and when question them, try to not reveal secrets of jinns world.
This is now somewhat clear for me that some humans who are very rare, have powers to hire or employ(something like this) some especial jinns to use them against guards of treasures.
what I've got by this time is that guards were especial selected jinns more powerful than others of their races. so can conclude in ancient eras people had access to a weird science to employ such jinns for their treasures and mostly reigns in Middle east countries, India had this weird science though in some other countries like Turkey ,Greek ,… was somehow so.[ Okantex and Geo know better]. as unlike human, jinns live for thousands years, OK, you can guess; it has been the best way for keep the treasure that lasted by this time.

one thing our Guru told us was that jinns like gold much more than human especially when it becomes ancient they love it more than their life. so after death of owner they never leave it and consider themselves as owner of treasure. so makes no difference for them that trespasser to their den be a man or woman, will react the same.
Our Guru said for this reason there is only one way; to persuade them to leave it for us which mostly don’t accept or fight to scare away or kill them cos treasure essentially belonged and belongs to human kind not jinns and how much of lives had taken and bloods shed to gather such treasures it is not their share and never belongs them. Humans used them to guard for some while not everlasting, jinns for their great interests to gold can’t leave, so that only way remains is push them out with using force and it’s not an ordinary war.
oh, there are much more things to tell about which is out of patience and unable to tell.........

Originally Posted by michael

Oh, yes, good question, the question that had made my mind busy for a while.
answer: I'm the manager and head of my team/partners I set all things, tools, appointments, planning and so on to program. and in work I'm the most active member, at that time I was personally working with electrical Hammer at 8m depth. as we were told at first they target and alarm the head of team to suspend their work. when head is dissuaded then work will be stopped. if all persist on continuing, all will be affected one by one.

I told, they're strange, and any suggested question comes from this strangeness. they have their own rules and do it very neatly.

Michael,

If you like others to believe your lies, either tell better lies or find some stupid people... The members of this forum are educated, they won't believe your lies!
BTW do you get money from somewhere instead of the lies you tell?

[Fred]

I don´t think Michael is lying, he´s exposing his experience.
I respect that and calling him liar doesn´seems right to me.
You have the right to believe or not.Just like in religions, anyone have the right to believe what he wants-independently if it´s true or not.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Maybe these stories can explain the reason why people report Mineoro is not finding treasures in Europe and other places where we hear these stories. If a treasure is moved after first detecting it, then recovery will be impossible regardless of whether it was detected by a conventional detector or LRL. Some people will conclude that there never was a treasure at all, only a false signal. But others will conclude the treasure was moved by Jinns, or other strange creatures like leprechauns. Of course, if these strange creatures don't exist in South America, then there will be no treasures lost because they were moved during the attempt to recover them.
There are none of these stories from Paraguay and Brazil?

Best wishes,
J_P

Sounds as a joke! Here is worst! Spirits keep the treasures!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Sounds as a joke! Here is worst! Spirits keep the treasures!

Hi Esteban,
No Jinns in Paraguay or Brazil? But other spirits keep the treasures? Hmmmm....
Is this the reason why you usually find coins and other small treasures?
Have the spirits taken all the large gold statues to keep for themselves?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Esteban,
No Jinns in Paraguay or Brazil? But other spirits keep the treasures? Hmmmm....
Is this the reason why you usually find coins and other small treasures?
Have the spirits taken all the large gold statues to keep for themselves?

Best wishes,
J_P

Those are stories of the people when you go for to search for treasure. I never experiment it... So, aren't mine stories...

[rajesh]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Those are stories of the people when you go for to search for treasure. I never experiment it... So, aren't mine stories...

hi esteban please read this........ story this is near from my home......rajesh

During the ruling period of Akbar, he learned about the legends of Jwalamukhi. In a fit of anger, he tried to douse the flames with a stream of water. The great power of the Goddess, still kept the flames burning. Realizing the power of Jwala Devi, Akbar came with his army to this temple. He brought a Gold umbrella (Chatra) for the Goddess, but on offering, the umbrella turned into an unknown metal suggesting that the Goddess didn't accept his offering.
http://www.culturalindia.net/indian-...vi-temple.html

[1843]

Originally Posted by Fred

I don´t think Michael is lying, he´s exposing his experience.
I respect that and calling him liar doesn´seems right to me.
You have the right to believe or not.Just like in religions, anyone have the right to believe what he wants-independently if it´s true or not.

Jinn is his belief...(I agree) But how about the funny stories he has told?