New Metal Detector Book!

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

It depends what you mean by "work".

Obviously it does actually function as an electronic detector, but whether it's detecting some emanation from longtime buried gold may be open to debate. Also, it does work as a short range metal detector.

Have you built it?

I did not build it, but if you read carefully you will understand that don't work as LRL.

[Dave J.]

BOOK REVIEW (after a fairly quick read)

For anyone thinking that with no knowledge of electronics they're going to be building a working metal detector, that would be the wrong thing to think. You need to learn basic electronics elsewhere, there's no need for Carl and George to waste time on that, their expertise is metal detectors. There is however some brief explanation of those electronic fundamentals which are especially important to metal detection which electronic techs and engineers in other disciplines may not be familiar with.

The history section is excellent, a wonderful read. Many flaws of omission and commission but that's as good as it gets in this business. This is metal detectors we're talking about, it's not like world wars where there were thousands of reporters trying to document everything for posterity and a researcher can go back through the newspaper morgues and piece it all back together. And it's not like this book was a work expected to earn the publisher a million dollars and thus could warrant tens of thousands of research hours. The authors have nonetheless gone through a great pile of disconnected source material in an attempt to piece together a grand story of "the evolution of beep". Although that story has many minor errors and many omissions (and a few major), the history of beep that you find in this book is as good as it's ever going to get. Nobody's going to do it better, this is the standard.

The part on metal detection technological theory and practice is good as far as it goes. Anyone who is hoping to glean the latest trade secrets from the book will be disappointed. I found the explanations of technology to be quite sound as far as they went, with virtually no areas of disagreement. No surprises on that score, look who the authors are!

If you're trying to home-brew a metal detector, the "latest trade secrets" aren't necessary anyhow, what you need is the basics and the patience to do them well. There are machines designed 15-30 years ago which can acquit themselves quite well in performance comparisons with machines being produced today-- in fact some of those oldies are still popular despite the lack of newfangled revisions.

The project schematics section, I found that a bit disappointing. It all seemed so 1970's. Reality check: I'm fortunate enough to be in a situation where I can order the latest components online in the afternoon and have them in my hand by noon the next day. There are many places in the world where it's hard to get parts, especially new stuff, and everywhere on the planet it's easier to build one-offs with through-hole components than with surface mount components. In that context, designs that look 20-30 years or more out of date are more relevant to the average experimenter around the planet than a design done a year ago by a major manufacturer would be. Heck, even nowadays if there's something I have to throw together in a hurry, my first concern is "is this a design I can solder onto a perfboard?" There's a lot of stuff that can be done well with parts that were available 20 or more years ago.

Want to build an LRL? One could argue that the subject of LRL's doesn't deserve air time on other forums much less books, but there it is. This is all hand in glove with the changes that are going on with the URL itself.

There's also a patent section. Sorry, haven't had time to plow through that yet.

--Dave J.

[Qiaozhi]

Thanks for the review Dave.

As you rightly pointed out, the designs in the book are not cutting edge, and that was (in fact) the intention.
Here is a short quote from the book:

------------------------------------------
This is one of those books where you could keep on writing and writing, and never get finished. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and say, "This is where we stop." In doing so, there will be a lot of information that never gets discussed, or topics that only receive elementary coverage.
------------------------------------------

We had to walk a thin line between making a Dummies Guide to Metal Detector Technology and a dry academic text. In the end we went for an easy conversational style of writing to cater for most levels of technical knowledge encountered on the Geotech forums. There is also the problem of language, as we often see in online posts. A decision was also made (in the project-based chapters) to not cater for readers with no, or very little, electronics knowledge. Basically, if you struggle with Ohm's Law then you're in trouble.

Hopefully we got the balance about right.

I did mention the possibility of a second book to Carl, where we can address the obvious holes and discuss more detailed technical information. His first response was, "Are you mad?". I think he's still trying to recover from the problems of actually getting it published.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Dave J.

BOOK REVIEW (after a fairly quick read)

For anyone thinking that with no knowledge of electronics they're going to be building a working metal detector, that would be the wrong thing to think. You need to learn basic electronics elsewhere, there's no need for Carl and George to waste time on that, their expertise is metal detectors. There is however some brief explanation of those electronic fundamentals which are especially important to metal detection which electronic techs and engineers in other disciplines may not be familiar with.

The history section is excellent, a wonderful read. Many flaws of omission and commission but that's as good as it gets in this business. This is metal detectors we're talking about, it's not like world wars where there were thousands of reporters trying to document everything for posterity and a researcher can go back through the newspaper morgues and piece it all back together. And it's not like this book was a work expected to earn the publisher a million dollars and thus could warrant tens of thousands of research hours. The authors have nonetheless gone through a great pile of disconnected source material in an attempt to piece together a grand story of "the evolution of beep". Although that story has many minor errors and many omissions (and a few major), the history of beep that you find in this book is as good as it's ever going to get. Nobody's going to do it better, this is the standard.

The part on metal detection technological theory and practice is good as far as it goes. Anyone who is hoping to glean the latest trade secrets from the book will be disappointed. I found the explanations of technology to be quite sound as far as they went, with virtually no areas of disagreement. No surprises on that score, look who the authors are!

If you're trying to home-brew a metal detector, the "latest trade secrets" aren't necessary anyhow, what you need is the basics and the patience to do them well. There are machines designed 15-30 years ago which can acquit themselves quite well in performance comparisons with machines being produced today-- in fact some of those oldies are still popular despite the lack of newfangled revisions.

The project schematics section, I found that a bit disappointing. It all seemed so 1970's. Reality check: I'm fortunate enough to be in a situation where I can order the latest components online in the afternoon and have them in my hand by noon the next day. There are many places in the world where it's hard to get parts, especially new stuff, and everywhere on the planet it's easier to build one-offs with through-hole components than with surface mount components. In that context, designs that look 20-30 years or more out of date are more relevant to the average experimenter around the planet than a design done a year ago by a major manufacturer would be. Heck, even nowadays if there's something I have to throw together in a hurry, my first concern is "is this a design I can solder onto a perfboard?" There's a lot of stuff that can be done well with parts that were available 20 or more years ago.

Want to build an LRL? One could argue that the subject of LRL's doesn't deserve air time on other forums much less books, but there it is. This is all hand in glove with the changes that are going on with the URL itself.

There's also a patent section. Sorry, haven't had time to plow through that yet.

--Dave J.

I can't understand why you apology for Carl and Qiaozhi????

[Carl-NC]

Thanks for the feedback Dave. I did the history section, based on what bits & pieces I could glean from old magazines and old forum posts. I'll gladly accept any add'l insight you can offer. Second Edition.

You're absolutely right about the "dated" projects, and one of the reasons why. We decided on these projects because (1) they demonstrate basic detector operation and (2) of easy availability of parts. We avoided cutting edge due to time constraints and my own desire to avoid issues with my boss. Boss liked what we did so Second Ed will likely dive a bit deeper.

The LRL section was included because I thought it important to get this information in proper published format once & for all. I have enough mat'l for an independent book and may spin this off and out.

- Carl

[Geo]

I believe that you have not any problem about my review for the LRL section!!!!!

[hung]

Hi Geo, I can't believe you wasted your money on this thing.
You know more about metal detecting and most important, you experience much more about metal detecting than both of the 'authors' altogether.

What would you expect to find in this 'readout' other than 'floor polishers' conventional material?
And what would you expect to find in the supposed 'LRL section' other than...
'floor polishers' conventional material?

[Geo]

Hi Hung.
Carl and Qiaozhi made very good work in this book. In section about LRLs they tried to explain how PD works......
It is very difficult to understand how it works if you do not make it to work as lrl and to locate objects from long distance. Everyone must going inside the mind of Alonso if he wants a workable lrl.

Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Hung.
Carl and Qiaozhi made very good work in this book. In section about LRLs they tried to explain how PD works......
It is very difficult to understand how it works if you do not make it to work as lrl and to locate objects from long distance. Everyone must going inside the mind of Alonso if he wants a workable lrl.

Regards

Thanks Geo.

As you have seen (unlike our friend Hung, who is making huge assumptions without even reading the book) that we did our best in Chapter 13 to describe the current "state of the art" concerning LRLs. You might not agree with our conclusions, but that is your prerogative.

In Chapter 14 we kept an open mind and attempted to create a PD based on knowledge available in the public domain. This is the TOTeM project. In real world tests it does seem to exhibit the same characteristics as the Alonso PD, and basically it comes down to whether you believe it is detecting emanations from longtime buried treasure, or simply reacting to electromagnetic interference. It is an interesting project to build, and I think you would be surprised, if you were to build it.

[Geo]

So is the project for the winter.
I will try to build it!!!
Results.... next year.

Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Geo

So is the project for the winter.
I will try to build it!!!
Results.... next year.

Regards

I wish you luck, and may you be the first to find treasure with it.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Hung.
Carl and Qiaozhi made very good work in this book. In section about LRLs they tried to explain how PD works......
It is very difficult to understand how it works if you do not make it to work as lrl and to locate objects from long distance. Everyone must going inside the mind of Alonso if he wants a workable lrl.

Regards

Well Geo, it's up to you what you choose and do with your money. Considering their 'technical posts' for years in this forum, I wouldn't even waste my time reading this thing for free.
Since you and others who ordered that thing became their quickest solution to pay this month's rent, you folks are now their valuable piece of gold.
Build their LRL or whatever that thing might be and go find treasure. Have fun.

No Alonso is not the only one who knows how to make LRLs. There are 3 people in this forum (excluding the ones that keep posting) who did a wonderful job. Now they only watch posts with a certain 'grin' and a pit of 'secrecy'. No involvement.

Bye for now. Heading to the field.
Take care.

[Goldmaxx]

Hi Qiaozhi

The book arrived yesterday and I am absolutely thrilled.
Thank you, that was all so quick and easy
So I must say, this is a very good job. Congratulations to you and Carl
In Germany they would say "das Buch ist saugeil".
The chapter on PD I find very interesting and will build it also.
Even if it should not work, it is interesting to experiment with it.

Hi Geo,
maybe you've got a PD what works for me?

Best regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by hung

Well Geo, it's up to you what you choose and do with your money. Considering their 'technical posts' for years in this forum, I wouldn't even waste my time reading this thing for free.
Since you and others who ordered that thing became their quickest solution to pay this month's rent, you folks are now their valuable piece of gold.
Build their LRL or whatever that thing might be and go find treasure. Have fun.

No Alonso is not the only one who knows how to make LRLs. There are 3 people in this forum (excluding the ones that keep posting) who did a wonderful job. Now they only watch posts with a certain 'grin' and a pit of 'secrecy'. No involvement.

Bye for now. Heading to the field.
Take care.

Hi Hung.
For me is not waste of time to read a technical book, especially this book. I don't know everything so there are new things inside it. Now about lrl... there are many lrls who works but the problem is near to the objects. This is the reason that i like the pistols from Alonso because have the ability to pinpoint (when the conditions are good and they work).

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Goldmaxx

Hi Qiaozhi

The book arrived yesterday and I am absolutely thrilled.
Thank you, that was all so quick and easy
So I must say, this is a very good job. Congratulations to you and Carl
In Germany they would say "das Buch ist saugeil".
The chapter on PD I find very interesting and will build it also.
Even if it should not work, it is interesting to experiment with it.

Hi Geo,
maybe you've got a PD what works for me?

Best regards

Hi Goldmaxx.
Sorry but i have not a PD for you

Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Goldmaxx

In Germany they would say "das Buch ist saugeil".

That's funny!

Originally Posted by Goldmaxx

The chapter on PD I find very interesting and will build it also.
Even if it should not work, it is interesting to experiment with it.

Exactly.
I look forward to hearing your experiences.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

... I wouldn't even waste my time reading this thing for free.

I will post a short quote from Chapter 14, regarding tests made with the TOTeM, so you can see what you're missing:

------------------------------------------
Does it work as a metal detector? At least in the active mode at short range, the answer is yes. When used in the active medium range mode there are definitely signals being detected, and you can even occasionally appear to be following a "signal line". In the passive long range mode the same can be said to be true, and it certainly acts like a sensitive electromagnetic field detector.
But does it detect treasure (in particular, gold) at long or even medium distance? Well, that is the big question. From a skeptical point of view the answer is almost certainly no, but the intention was to keep an open mind during the development of this device.
------------------------------------------

How open is your mind?

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

...I wouldn't even waste my time reading this thing for free.

Hung, I urge you not to read it. In fact, if you order a copy I'll decline your order. I sure don't want you to actually learn anything, it would take all the fun out of your posts.

Yep, we're making money hand-over-fist on this book. 10 yrs and $1000's invested, and I've already made over $200!

- Carl

[Goldmaxx]

Hi Qiaozhi
Thank you. I will keep you up to date.
it may be that I have to ask you questions about this project.
I hope it's okay with you.
I've never built something and am really looking forward to the results.

Hi Geo,
It is a great pity, could have been.

Best regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Goldmaxx

Hi Qiaozhi
Thank you. I will keep you up to date.
it may be that I have to ask you questions about this project.
I hope it's okay with you.
I've never built something and am really looking forward to the results.

Hi Geo,
It is a great pity, could have been.

Best regards

No problem.
All the construction details are given in the book, but if anything is not completely clear, then please ask.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Hung.
Carl and Qiaozhi made very good work in this book. In section about LRLs they tried to explain how PD works......
It is very difficult to understand how it works if you do not make it to work as lrl and to locate objects from long distance. Everyone must going inside the mind of Alonso if he wants a workable lrl.

Regards

Hi Geo,
I also think this was a good work.
I tried to get inside the mind of Alonso as you say we must, but the concept of using a hidden transmitter is really not part of metal detecting theory or LRL theory.
Maybe better to stick to real metal detectors... don't you think so?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
You never will to go inside the mind of Alonso because you have a problem.... you forget very soon. You forget the small gold objects that robalocarapanda found with mineoro http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...&postcount=127 .... you forget the coins that Morgan found with mineoro http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...&postcount=131, you forget the gold chain who found Jimmys, you forget MIJ who locate the burriet coins with pdk http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...56&postcount=1 ...., you forget..........
It is time to remember some occasions where designs by Alonso found hidden objects.

Regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
You never will to go inside the mind of Alonso because you have a problem.... you forget very soon. You forget the small gold objects that robalocarapanda found with mineoro http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...&postcount=127 .... you forget the coins that Morgan found with mineoro http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...&postcount=131, you forget the gold chain who found Jimmys, you forget MIJ who locate the burriet coins with pdk http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...56&postcount=1 ...., you forget..........
It is time to remember some occasions where designs by Alonso found hidden objects.

Regards

I did not forget those.
But I know the mind of Alonso did not locate them.
These were located by people who do not use hidden transmitters.
Don't you remember?
Alonso went to the same location as robalocarapanda, and only Alonso and his assistant had the mind to use a hidden transmitter.
Everyone else at that location had the mind to use only treasure hunting equipment.

Best Wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Today I received a book.

Excellent reading for us LRL enthusiast.

One who wish to go step forward to real LRL need to consider this book as must read.

Thanks Carl and Qiaozhi.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by WM6

Today I received a book.

Excellent reading for us LRL enthusiast.

One who wish to go step forward to real LRL need to consider this book as must read.

Thanks Carl and Qiaozhi.

That's good to know.
The book was posted at lunchtime on Thursday 27th September, so it arrived in about 4 working days (including Saturday). Bravo to the postal system.