Simple question

[WM6]

Originally Posted by hung

Interesting... really interesting...

By the way, does somebody know how the minelab lawsuit against whites is going? Updates?

Carl?...

Or learn fraudster art on how to avoid real questions.

Not Interesting... really not interesting...

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by WM6

Or learn fraudster art on how to avoid real questions.

Not Interesting... really not interesting...

C'mon WM6!
Cheer up!
We all here are enthusiasts and friends.
Who cares about eventual White's vs Minelab conflict?
As far as they make nice VLF's - they are our friends too!
But here we are talking only about LRL signal, it's properties and features.
Let us not dilute this subject and spoil so nice debate that is evolving right now, please!
I am restless to hear right answer from our fellows LRL experts.
Because, i swear, once i get the right answer - i will design perfect LRL.
Also i will ask my skeptic colleagues experts to help me in process of designing it.
Simply because i am not that good even in conventional electronics, there are more better experts here too.
I bet those will accept my invitation and we all will work and design perfect working LRL together.
But first we have to know most crucial thing:
What is LRL "signal", what type of signal is it and what are it's properties and features?

And who is better to ask than our good fellows LRL experts:
Mike , Hung, Gibon and Dell ??

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by ivconic

So!? I see now!
Yes you are right!
So that's why Mike was explicit about shoes!?
Now i understand!
But yet; i do wander about type of shoes?

Hi Ivconic,
Yes, of course I know something about type shoes.
According to MFD manufacturers your body capacitance is important.
When we consider the ground is the electrical return path from the treasure to the dowser, we know that any capacitance within your body requires a good dielectric to separate it from the ground.

Now we are getting somewhere...
We are talking about shoes and socks.
Of course if you are bare foot, you will be grounded and your capacitance is shorted out.
Unless you are standing bare foot on very dry ground which acts as an insulator.
Maybe people standing in the Sahara Desert can dowse bare foot very well.

But moving along to places where we do not have dry ground, we must examine the shoes and socks....
Do the shoes have dark rubber soles? These usually contain carbon pigments which allow electrical leakage...
Maybe better to use vinyl based shoe soles.
Another problem... what if there is a puncture through the sole of the shoe?
This should not be a problem unless the dowser is perspiring... and his feet are damp inside his shoes.
Or even worse... what if the ground is wet... and contaminated water is leaking through the hole in the sole of the shoe?
What if the dowser is wearing leather sole shoes?
Then moisture conducts small charges through the pores in the soles...
And definitely not a good dielectric.
Maybe it will help to carry spare socks... so you can change to clean, dry socks when you are ready for an important dowse.
Maybe the socks will be a good dielectric.

I think it will be best to hear back from dowsers who have more experience with different shoes and socks.
They should be much more expert for deciding what works best.

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Originally Posted by ivconic

What is LRL "signal", what type of signal is it and what are it's properties and features?

Your 'simple' question requires a huge long and complex answer that I will refrain from answering it.
I simply don't have the time anymore nor feel like going over all of this again here or elsewhere after all this time. I'm serious. I'm sick of it.

If you want to know the answers to your question. Research it. There are tons of material here and specially on TNET about this. Just go for it.
Good luck.

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by hung

Your 'simple' question requires a huge long and complex answer that I will refrain from answering it.
I simply don't have the time anymore nor feel like going over all of this again here or elsewhere after all this time. I'm serious. I'm sick of it.

If you want to know the answers to your question. Research it. There are tons of material here and specially on TNET about this. Just go for it.
Good luck.

C'mon!
After such huge effort you already involved here on Geotech forum!?
What are you talking about?
I've been following your posts so long; you involved so much efforts here already.
Worse thing you can do now is to give up of everything!
Don't mind people like Carl, Qiaozhi, WM6 and others, don't let their remarks and mockery to distract your focus from main point here!
Those are nice people but seems not ready yet to accept new things that may appear in science!
If you, 'The HUNG', give up now... than what's left for others?
Besides, who's pushing you to answer so fast, now and in one sentence?
Take your time and go slowly, you will have my full attention anyway.
It doesn't matter how long you will elaborate this thing as long as you finally help me to understand what at the end is damn LRL signal, what type of signal it is and what should be it's properties and features, on which i should pay attention in process of designing the full electronic working LRL.
So... take your time and come up with your views upon this, no need to hurry!
Cheers!

[goldfinder]

I too ran huge numbers of tests on LRL technology and nothing standard electronics would measure the signal even though I can feel it by running my hand where it. I won't go into that.

From what I found most of the LRL devices work with the dowsing response and is primarily a mental and nervous system type thing. If your mental frame of mind is right you can make them work to a limited extent. Only a very few number of real dowsers out there so the results are crappy to really find something.

As to the signal line definition. Our nervous system is really responsive to scalar or longitudinal type of signals. This is what I think the dowsers are responding to. We have a very sensitive nervous system and detect signals that are not transverse wave type of phenomena. Transverse is normal electromagnetic type of signal. Longitudinal is a different type of signal. Build a longitudinal wave detector and you will have your true LRL.
Goldfinder

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Ivconic,
Yes, of course I know something about type shoes.
According to MFD manufacturers your body capacitance is important.
When we consider the ground is the electrical return path from the treasure to the dowser, we know that any capacitance within your body requires a good dielectric to separate it from the ground.

Now we are getting somewhere...
We are talking about shoes and socks.
Of course if you are bare foot, you will be grounded and your capacitance is shorted out.
Unless you are standing bare foot on very dry ground which acts as an insulator.
Maybe people standing in the Sahara Desert can dowse bare foot very well.

But moving along to places where we do not have dry ground, we must examine the shoes and socks....
Do the shoes have dark rubber soles? These usually contain carbon pigments which allow electrical leakage...
Maybe better to use vinyl based shoe soles.
Another problem... what if there is a puncture through the sole of the shoe?
This should not be a problem unless the dowser is perspiring... and his feet are damp inside his shoes.
Or even worse... what if the ground is wet... and contaminated water is leaking through the hole in the sole of the shoe?
What if the dowser is wearing leather sole shoes?
Then moisture conducts small charges through the pores in the soles...
And definitely not a good dielectric.
Maybe it will help to carry spare socks... so you can change to clean, dry socks when you are ready for an important dowse.
Maybe the socks will be a good dielectric.

I think it will be best to hear back from dowsers who have more experience with different shoes and socks.
They should be much more expert for deciding what works best.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hmmm!
Now i see some analogies in what you just elaborated with some of my works from the past!
Back in the past, when redesigning Zahori, i also reconsidered the ultra high impedance inputs - just because of the dangers you just explained!
Cool!
That is starting to make more and more sense!
Because, than, i faced one pretty delicate compromise;
to get device more sensitive to such tiny "signals" that may come through the air - i had to design ultra high impedance inputs...
but than again; ultra high impedance inputs can turn hazardous in such use as it is searching for casual signals in the air!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by goldfinder

I too ran huge numbers of tests on LRL technology and nothing standard electronics would measure the signal even though I can feel it by running my hand where it. I won't go into that.

From what I found most of the LRL devices work with the dowsing response and is primarily a mental and nervous system type thing. If your mental frame of mind is right you can make them work to a limited extent. Only a very few number of real dowsers out there so the results are crappy to really find something.

As to the signal line definition. Our nervous system is really responsive to scalar or longitudinal type of signals. This is what I think the dowsers are responding to. We have a very sensitive nervous system and detect signals that are not transverse wave type of phenomena. Transverse is normal electromagnetic type of signal. Longitudinal is a different type of signal. Build a longitudinal wave detector and you will have your true LRL.
Goldfinder

Hi Goldfinder,
I understand very well the kind of principle you are talking about, which brings up a deeper philosophical point about LRLs:
Carl is correct when he admits there is a possibility that the signal line is almost unmeasurable, and that some people might possess a skill that he does not.
Let us suppose that dowsing and swiveling LRLs work on a scientific principle which our best scientists have not yet discovered.

Since this would be an unknown science, nobody will have a way to adequately describe it or explain how it works.
Then how can we prove it even exists?
The only proof we will have in this circumstance is to show evidence that the unknown principle is working.

We can simply demonstrate how the dowsing/LRL leads us to the hidden object time and again to show how well this unknown principle it is working.
After we establish that we can rely on the dowsing/LRL to find the hidden object, then it becomes the work of the scientist to figure out how it works.
The gifted people who perform these recovery feats are not obligated to explain how it works.
They only need to show the skeptical scientists that they have something which defies their known science.

Think about it.
Columbus did this. He showed the best scientists of his time they were wrong about the edge of the world.
Then it was the job of the scientists to revise their science to explain how a round earth works.

Nicola Tesla did it. He showed that is was more economical to use AC electricity than DC for power.
In his case the scientists had no work to do because he already gave all the scientific answers and details.

Now is the perfect chance for dowsers and swivel-rod MFD users to show skeptical scientists how they can locate hidden things that they don't know the location of.
Once they do this, scientists will jump into panic mode to try to figure out how they are so successful at locating hidden things.
We will then see some real science research to explain it shortly after these amazing demonstrations.

But until we see some real evidence that hidden things are actually being located, it remains a bunch of talk that cannot be demonstrated to be factual or to even exist.


Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Hmmm!
Now i see some analogies in what you just elaborated with some of my works from the past!
Back in the past, when redesigning Zahori, i also reconsidered the ultra high impedance inputs - just because of the dangers you just explained!
Cool!
That is starting to make more and more sense!
Because, than, i faced one pretty delicate compromise;
to get device more sensitive to such tiny "signals" that may come through the air - i had to design ultra high impedance inputs...
but than again; ultra high impedance inputs are hazardous in such use as it is searching for casual signals in the air!

Hahahahahahaaaaa


Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Originally Posted by hung

Your 'simple' question requires a huge long and complex answer that I will refrain from answering it.
I simply don't have the time anymore nor feel like going over all of this again here or elsewhere after all this time. I'm serious. I'm sick of it.

.

Scam business as usual.

He have no time to answer, but he have enormous amount of time for rogue posts here again and again and again and again.

Hi is constantly sick to give answer, which he never gave and never will, cause such answer is out of his scam business.

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hahahahahahaaaaa


Best wishes,
J_P

Now you see why i do insist to know more details on shoe type!
It is not the same and it makes the difference!

Both; Reebok and Nike are high impedance, but Nike are ultra high ... while Reebok is just high impedance!
Other hand... following this logic; bare foot will also be variable in impedance because there are differences in foot skin thickness.
Along with that i think there also can be important if feet are freshly washed or not?
Bare foot LRL'st with freshly washed feet maybe presents lower impedance input for stray signals?
So i guess; to achieve ultra high impedance: man LRL'st must not wash it's feet for some time!?
We actually can experiment and adopt some "feet impedance scale" which will
represent various impedances which are dependable on how many days, weeks, months our feet are not washed?
How about that?
I think this is good idea, because at the end we can achieve the same effect as with brand new Nike's - only this time with much less costs!?
How about that?
Splendid idea!
I knew i am smart person! Only i need slight bias from time to time!
Thank you very much JPlayer, for your bias!!!
Cheers!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Now you see why i do insist to know more details on shoe type!
It is not the same and it makes the difference!

Both; Reebok and Nike are high impedance, but Nike are ultra high ... while Reebok is just high impedance!
Other hand... following this logic; bare foot will also be variable in impedance because there are differences in foot skin thickness.
Along with that i think there also can be important if feet are freshly washed or not?
Bare foot LRL'st with freshly washed feet maybe presents lower impedance input for stray signals?
So i guess; to achieve ultra high impedance: man LRL'st must not wash it's feet for some time!?
We actually can experiment and adopt some "feet impedance scale" which will
represent various impedances which are dependable on how many days, weeks, months our feet are not washed?
How about that?
I think this is good idea, because at the end we can achieve the same effect as with brand new Nike's - only this time with much less costs!?
How about that?
Splendid idea!
I knew i am smart person! Only i need slight bias from time to time!
Thank you very much JPlayer, for your bias!!!
Cheers!

Ultimate solution:
Teflon shoes!
It cost more money, but worth it because all dielectric problems are gone.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Considering "Feet impedance scale" experiments... now what we need here is volunteer to perform such long term experiments and form such scale!
I would like to be the one... but pity i can't!
There is cold here in Serbia and i might catch some disease walking bare foot like that.
Ok... not washing my feet for longer period can help me a bit and protect me from cold... but i simply do not have conditions for such experiment.
Maybe next summer?
In meantime we could use help from some "southerns" who's are living on more warm places?
Who will be better than our fellows from South America?
Do i need to name them?
Of course not!
...
Ok, we will have to wait for volunteer to apply for this important experiment!
...
Until than, i would like to remind all of us here on one very important (crucial) question we should resolve first:

LRL signal, what type of signal it is and what should be it's properties and features??

As usual; i will firstly await our fellows LRL experts to appear and give us here most proper answer!
Many thanks in advance!

[ivconic]

In meantime, while we wait volunteer, i was thinking;
those bare foot LRL'sts actually are saving a lot of money walking around bare feet!
They do achieve several benefits mutually!
They do dowse and they save money by not buying shoes at all!
Along with that, not washing their feet for longer period they also can "trimm" feet impedance by the desire!
That's what's called "natural born LRL experts" !
Wow!

[ivconic]

Nobody yet to answer!??
I thought this forum is the best place to ask such questions?
So many LRL experts here and yet no one to have answer on such simple question?

[Carl-NC]

Don't feel bad... 13 years and no answer.

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Don't feel bad... 13 years and no answer.

If you could wait so long; i guess i will have to wait too.
Never mind, sometimes questions are more important than answers.
I have patience enough!

[ivconic]

... and sometimes silence is the best possible answer!

[kt315]

answer is famous. leave the people in their nescience.

[ivconic]

Nice photo KT315!
That "Thor" guy... i guess he was bare feet LRL walker too?
But what bugs me mostly now is that square lid on the top of his head?!
Damn... i must discover what was the use of that square lid there!

[ivconic]

Just look the smile on his bony face!
Looking so satisfied!
Maybe he was one really rare successful LRL dowser?
Smiling so mysteriously ... just like Mona Lisa!
He must know something that i don't!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Just look the smile on his bony face!
Looking so satisfied!
Maybe he was one really rare successful LRL dowser?
Smiling so mysteriously ... just like Mona Lisa!
He must know something that i don't!

Sure, he was successful when he was using his variable-impedance bare feet.
But he soon discovered the shocking consequences.
Of course he will never tell what things he kept hidden under the square lid....


Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Sure, he was successful when he was using his variable-impedance bare feet.
But he soon discovered the shocking consequences.
Of course he will never tell what things he kept hidden behind the square door....


Best wishes,
J_P

Those LRL guys! They all behave so typical and so predictive!

[goldfinder]

Yes - the signal type is a longitudinal wave. You either missed this or ignored this answer to your question for some reason.

Figure out longitudinal wave generation and detection and you will have your perfect detector.

Goldfinder

[kt315]

spectrum