MINERO

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by mineorogreece

HELLO AGAIN
CARL YOU ARE INSISTING THAT THE IONS HAVE TO BE DETECTED AT A COLLECTOR PLATE,INSIDE THE MINEORO IONIC CHAMBER THERE IS A ANTENNA OR ANODE WHICH COLLECTS THE IONS ,AND BE SURE IONS DO GO THROUGH PVC PIPES WHICH IS WHAT THE MINEORO IONIC CHAMBER IS MADE OF.
ELECTRIC FIELDS AND IONIC FIELDS GO THROUGH PLASTIC AND PVC.
THANK YOU

mg,

Are you saying that gold atoms can float right through the wall of a PVC pipe? Really?

And if the Mineoro relies on gold atoms physically entering the chamber, how in the world can the device determine where they came from?

Also, what is is the difference between an electric field, and an "ionic field"?

- Carl

P.S. -- Do you, or do you not, have photos of your dissected unit? I would personally like to see exactly what you found inside the chamber.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I don't work for Mineoro. YES I know the two inventors. I assure you the both investigate long range detectors since many years and works all the days in this and they are serious persons.
.....
I'm not scientific, but if I wait explanation from science WHY a simple RF detector in association with another electronics detects a coin (buried) 20 or more meters from the detector, never I will do experiments.

I'm not questioning their dedication, just their technical claims. Whether it's ions, or electrostatics, or whatever, it just doesn't jive with well-known science. And keep in mind, that I did test a PDC205, and found that it could not detect gold.

Based on my experiences, and the claims of Mineoro, I will gladly extend my challenge to their product, providing that a fair test can be agreed upon. A test as shown in the Kurt Kluey video, would be unacceptable.

BTW, I like the pics you've posted. Interesting.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I make semi-long distance detectors and contrast the PDC. The place where sounds my detector, sounds the PDC 205 or 210 and found the target.

Esteban,

Does your design rely on similar principles as the Mineoro (i.e., ion or electrostatics)? Can you suggest a simple experiment in which this principle can be objectively demonstrated? I will gladly build up a test circuit and try it out.

- Carl

[Esteban]

Carl:

Mineoro PDC with two controls is not the same you show here. In the past I had the model “dissected� in this forum and said the both inventors that this is not the ideal for smalls items (coins, rings, etc.), only for big masses.

In consideration to my suggest (I think), they added controls wich works in the threshold.

My next step is detection with the new PDC and shows via video how to adjust and detect with it. You need X experience with this detector for to center the exact point of the target.

No mean that the persons who read all this buy immediately PDC according my words, because if you don't have certain searching method with it, you'll failure.

Remember this: PDC also detects copper, bronze, silver and alloys of these.

My designs in not the same than Mineoro. I finish a design as the B&W photos I post here and consist in a search oscillator coil - radio - audio signalizer and another electronics.

Waiting more good weather for to test in inland. I'll post results.

Carl, sorry, for the moment can't post any technical info.

[hung]

I have just returned from a trip to Mineoro's factory where I performed tests with the detectors and met Damasio, the inventor .

I own a PDC 210 and there I experimented with the new GDP. It had been raining for 2 months almost non stop and the ionic field of buried objects gets extremely weak as the atmosphere gets charged negatively. Even with this scenario, the PDC 210 beeped over really small targets in their test field. But I had to almost touch the ground for this. The new model which is more sensitive responded from 15'' away tough. Their test field is full of ancient jewelry buried because as soon they started to dig the located objects they learned they were small objects like rings, necklaces, etc.. due to the place has served as a spot for farmer families celebration parties in the 19th century. So the terrain is full of objects which they chose not to dig in order to remain as test targets.

The new model has a special switch that when engaged, allows the user to work near high voltage power lines. I was informed that a gold brooch was found close to a 13,000 volts powerline tower.

This discussion regarding wether or not the ionic field detection is for real is null for me. I know it's true and Mineoro detectors are finely crafted precision instruments which are able to classify the ions of gold and detect it. Just that. If one studies the phenomena he will know.
Of course, as ionic fields highly depend of earth's 'humour' there are the special ocasions in which the ionic field is ideal as their website explain.

Also one thing I learned from Damasio is that he's not worried at all about people trying to dismantle the device to see how it works or trying to copy it.
There are components inside that no one will ever know how it works or what it is for, except the inventor himself.

Just my 2 cents.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

...Mineoro detectors are finely crafted precision instruments which are able to classify the ions of gold and detect it.

They could "classify" the ions, only if the ions could enter the chamber. Which they cannot, because it's sealed. So, regardless of what else might be going on with the Mineoro, it is NOT classifying gold ions.

Also one thing I learned from Damasio is that he's not worried at all about people trying to dismantle the device to see how it works or trying to copy it. There are components inside that no one will ever know how it works or what it is for, except the inventor himself.

Not at all... the unit I opened had nothing but standard, off-the-shelf components, and easily could be duplicated. I saw no point in doing so, since the device was unable to detect gold, but apparently someone in Germany HAS duplicated the Mineoro, not for the purpose of detecting gold, but for generating sales.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

When Dell asked for internal photos of the PDC, I completely forgot about the "Center and Deep" accessory that came with it. It is a dowsing rod. Nothing more. Inside, there is a wood dowel with a piece of wire spiral-wrapped around it. This wire is not connected to anything.

In my opinion, this confirms that the Mineoro units are a fraud. If they did work as claimed, then there would be no need to include bogus nonsense like a dowsing rod.

- Carl

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

They could "classify" the ions, only if the ions could enter the chamber. Which they cannot, because it's sealed. So, regardless of what else might be going on with the Mineoro, it is NOT classifying gold ions.

If you've read mineoro greece's detailed explanation of the working principle of the ionic chamber above, you've learned that as the ionic chamber has a gold leaf inside, the sonic pulse charges it with positive ions and as soon it encounters its negative counterpart, a crash in nano level occurs.
Yes the ions do penetrate in the chamber thorugh electrostatic flow. Remember it's made of PVC. And yes they do classify the ions. If this method was of public domain then everybody would be building its own PDC or whatever.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

In my opinion, this confirms that the Mineoro units are a fraud. If they did work as claimed, then there would be no need to include bogus nonsense like a dowsing rod.

When I was there, I was told they are waiting your reply about conducting the tests in Brazil. Damasio has health problems and I don't think he could make the trip to US.
So, grab your sunscreen, swiming suit and come over here to enjoy the beautiful beaches. I will be in the first row to watch the contest.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

Yes the ions do penetrate in the chamber thorugh electrostatic flow. Remember it's made of PVC.

So you're saying that gold atoms outside the PVC, can magically appear inside the PVC, by "electrostatic flow"? Sounds "too good to be true", eh?

As I mentioned before, this bring up another problem... how does the PDC know WHERE the ions came from? How can it be directional? Wind could have blown the ions all over the place. Please don't tell me that ions leave the buried gold, and fly out in a straight line until they hit the PDC... I know better.

And yes they do classify the ions. If this method was of public domain then everybody would be building its own PDC or whatever.

The PDC I looked at has nowhere near the circuitry needed to classify ions. I'm absolutely convinced, per my electronics background, and according to what I found inside the PDC, that it definitely does not classify ions.

When I was there, I was told they are waiting your reply about conducting the tests in Brazil.

Despite their blocking my emails, I did reply... the last thing I heard was an email from Patricia:

Mr. Damásio was not in office the past two days. Though we talked over the phone and he told me we were going to present a test method, as you described in your site is one of the manufacturers options "For manufacturers, I will still intertain other protocol suggestions. In those cases, it is up to the manufacturer to specify what his device can do, and to what extent, and to specify a test method that will demostrate the claimed capabilities."

Next week we will be forwarding it for your study.

Regards,

MINEORO LONG RANGE DIRECTIONAL DETECTORS
Patricia C.
International Sales

That was July 29. Ball's in their court.

- Carl

Carl,

Me thinks up way to scammer you money for me. I makes gieger tube go and then radioactives gold with radioactiv substances with alphie particles to go far and then I can always find. you can't not find later but I can always find and show you how I can find my double blinded gold.

I find circuit for device for detect radiosubstances need 500 volts supply source for detect tube to arc in tube with xenon gas of ionic containment with energy passage of radioparticles.

http://www.imagesco.com/articles/geiger/04.html

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Dunderhead

Me thinks up way to scammer you money for me. I makes gieger tube go and then radioactives gold with radioactiv substances with alphie particles to go far and then I can always find. you can't not find later but I can always find and show you how I can find my double blinded gold.

Yup, except the rules explicitly forbid radiation (radioactivity) detectors.

I find circuit for device for detect radiosubstances need 500 volts supply source for detect tube to arc in tube with xenon gas of ionic containment with energy passage of radioparticles.

Yup again, radiation can penetrate solid substances, because the particles are much smaller than the molecular structure of the solid. Ions -- especially a big atom like gold -- cannot penetrate a solid such as PVC.

- Carl

Carl,

Ah, you have are smart rule can see forward looking.

black box high volts power soucer for detector tube?

tests with radiosoucers?

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Dunderhead

Ah, you have are smart rule can see forward looking.

black box high volts power soucer for detector tube?

tests with radiosoucers?

No, the black box does not generate a high voltage... the Mineoro has no high voltages anywhere.

- Carl

[nncunew]

Amigo, veo que eres muy ducho en los temas de los LRL... yo aquÃ* pasando tremendo trabajo con el inglés.

Oye, tu pudieras mandarme algo sobre LRL, por ejemplo algún esquema que me permita hacer experimentos que muestren este tema de los LRL. Algún plano de equipo que encuentre algo a distancia, aunque sea grande...

Cambiando el tema, hice una mezcla de detectores y he dado el primer paso en este tema de los PI, hice una antena de 8.2 inchs y 20awg con 28 turns, me ha salido un equipo con una LM 709 de preamplificador, pero solo obtengo una lata de refresco a unos 40 a 45 cm... y suena muy feo, quizás se te ocurra que debo hacer algo.

Saludos

nncunew@yahoo.com

[Carl-NC]

Experimenting with LRLs is tricky business, it's very easy to get caught up in self-deception. Right now, I know of no instrument that will find treasure at a distance, at least the kind of instrument treasure hunters are dreaming of.

Regarding your PI, I don't know... the coil sounds OK, the LM709 should work (I think)... it could be your transmit pulse width, or the sample delay, or something in the gain stages. You would need to provide more information.

- Carl

[Esteban]

I prefer the words directional electronic metal detector for completely electronic type machine, because the terminology LRL remember dowsing...

The photos I post are, maybe, the only proofs on the world about directional metal detector. All the photos are real, and I have many negative films of these.

Respect the PI, nncunew want a more good audio generator for his PI, maybe a VCO type.

[Carl-NC]

Posting pics of people holding gadgets, really isn't proof of the existence of a working LRL... What I would like to see, and try, are experiments that objectively demonstrate a workable concept. As soon as I see evidence that I (or anyone else) can personally replicate, then I will temper my skepticism.

- Carl

Hello, Carl.
Sorry, my English isn't correct.
What do you think about MINEORO's device and Bionic 01 from OKM Gmbh?
Do you know correct research these devices?
Thanks.

[Esteban]

First, I was witness from 1979 and many times through the years.

There are many photos since the 60's at today. Do you think all the persons are in implication through the years for to make all these pictures in prevention the existence of Geotech and Internet? Many years of photographic evidence only for TO LIE?

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Esteban

First, I was witness from 1979 and many times through the years.

There are many photos since the 60's at today. Do you think all the persons are in implication through the years for to make all these pictures in prevention the existence of Geotech and Internet? Many years of photographic evidence only for TO LIE?

I'm not saying that anyone is lying. I'm not judging your photos in any way. I'm simply saying that I will remain skeptical of an LRL claim -- of any kind, and from any source -- until I see for myself some kind of reliable, repeatable evidence that the claim is true. In the same way that I remain skeptical of alien visits, even when someone in Roswell claims to have photos of a UFO.

It's nothing against you, or anyone in the photos... suggest some experiments that will demonstrate the viability of an LRL technique, and I will pursue it.

- Carl

[Esteban]

They are persons with the foot on EARTH, no alliens in the AIR (in all the acceptations of the word) who visit us with his "amazing gadgets". From my short vision analisis, all the non-well instruments are gadgets.

Also, I think is unequal to compare a spot in the sky (the UFO?) with the physical "gadgets" I show here.

Do you believe that the astronauts visit the Moon? Where is the evidence? Photos? Films? Voices? Do you are present for to confirm is real? My advantage is this: I was present many times during long range detection.

Long range metal detector is not a perfect technology, such as is no perfect metal detector.

My old question: Is more easy to put a man in the Moon (384,000 km) than detect —not at distance— a only coin at 1 m depth?

Something fails.

THE METAL DETECTOR RADAR REDISCOVERED (AT VERY LOW COST):

In internet can to find a radar for detect metals (INFORMATIVE, read all the PDF) in:

http://www.llnl.gov/IPandC/technolog...adar/index.php

[Esteban]

MORE INFO ABOUT THE RADAR:

LAWRENCE LIVERMORE NATIONAL LABORATORY SEEKS LICENSEES FROM INDUSTRY TO COMMERCIALIZE LLNL’S MAGNETO-RADAR/FIELD DISTURBANCE SENSOR AND METHODS, FOR METAL AND NON-METAL DETECTION, DERIVED FROM MICROPOWER IMPULSE RADAR (MIR) TECHNOLOGIES AND METHODS



Announcement: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL), operated by the University of California under contract with the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), is seeking one or more licensees to commercialize LLNL’S current patents and a newly allowed, soon to be published patent covering the Magneto-Radar/Field Disturbance Sensor and Methods, for metal and non-metal detection, derived from Micropower Impulse Radar (MIR) Technologies and Methods technology.

• The Magneto-Radar is a completely new approach to a motion and range detection sensor for conductive materials whether metal or non metal.

• Materials may possibly be detected at greater depths and located with greater precision than present technology can achieve by detection at remote distances of very small vibrations such as from a turning fork induced in the targets. Ground balance problems are either eliminated or substantially reduced in most cases.

• Low-cost potential applications exist in treasure hunting equipment, medical, industrial, mining, security and safety screening, and analytical equipment. LLNL’s licensed field disturbance technology with range gating has been the basis for other products and other applications such as range controlled radar motion sensor for security application products selling commercially for under seventy dollars ($70) in the quantity of one.

• MIR and field disturbance sensors provide range to object information while screening out clutter and discriminating from other signals due to the environment, false positives or movement signals outside its range-gated region.

• The MIR or field disturbance sensors can detect small vibrations, such as from a tuning fork, or steel guitar strings.

• Varying frequencies and inter-modulation products of induced magnetic field targets may possibly provide more information to distinguish and identify them from other materials or movements.

These technologies and methods relate to employing a portable, low-power, battery operated radar to sense and locate (range to object) even microscopic mechanically excited motion or vibration in objects such as but not limited to conductive and nonconductive bio-materials, including ferrous and non ferrous metals, wherein the mechanical vibration and resonance may be the result of mechanical, acoustic, magnetic, optical or electromagnetic excitation. In many cases, the aforementioned materials can be detected at greater depths and located with greater precision than present technology can achieve. Ground balance problems are either eliminated or substantially reduced by utilizing either the range gating and sensitive motion features of these technologies in combination or separately.

The MIR and field disturbance sensors are range-gated radars, which provide range to object information while screening out clutter, false positives or movement signals outside its range-gated region. The MIR and field disturbance sensor can be used in three capacities: (1) non-magneto, (2) magneto, or (3) contrast. When used in the non-magneto capacity, the MIR and field disturbance sensor provides a substantially improved means of detecting stationary mechanically and/or acoustically (ex. for use in detection between walls in a building) induced vibrating and resonating objects and materials. In the magneto capacity, the magnetically or electromagnetically induced vibration and resonance of an object can be detected via a characteristic double harmonic frequency. Third, the radar can also detect the target object through microscopic movement resulting from changes in the size, image or contrast of the object.

The Magneto-Radar using either LLNL’s MIR or the field disturbance sensor is a completely new approach to motion and range detection sensor technology using a bipolar generator, which generates unique double harmonics detectable by MIR or the field disturbance sensor. The MIR and field disturbance sensors are a new low-cost implementation of a pulse echo radar. Conventional radar pulses travel at the speed of light and require an oscilloscope for high speed sweeps in even nanoseconds, but LLNL's MIR and field disturbance sensor uses a time expansion technology known as equivalent time allowing it to sweep a million times slower or on a millisecond scale. This range-gated radar operates as a pulse echo system that clocks the two way time of flight of a very short electrical pulse. It involves using a bipolar magnetic field to induce an eddy current in the target object generating a corresponding magnetic field (detectable phase shift relied upon by traditional metal detectors for determining various materials based on conductivity), transmitting various radar frequency signals to the conductive object, receiving reflected radar signals resulting from motion in the object, and processing the receive radar signals to produce an output signal that corresponds to a harmonic and/or an inter-modulation product of the resonating target object in the magnetic field. The MIR radar transmits short, ultra-wideband electromagnetic pulses and the receiver is designed to only receive signals from a preset range(s) R. If there are no changes within or at range R, then the integrated return signal remains constant because stationary clutter signals are integrated as part of the constant return. However, if anything penetrates the shell, it will change the reflectivity in range R, which causes a change in the detectable return signal attributed to motion. Through doing this as well, the varying frequencies of the induced magnetic field targets can be more readily distinguished and identified from other materials or movements through harmonic analysis. For example, when the magnetic excitation varies sinusoidally at a frequency F, the resulting resonance of the conductive object may occur at, but is not limited to 2F, providing a unique harmonic signature that is detected by the motion sensing MIR radar (ex. a bipolar excitation frequency of 60 Hz would result in a harmonic frequency of 120 Hz).

Since the magnetic field of a traditional metal detector must travel out to the object and then couple back to the generator, a sixth order decrease in signal strength versus range results, forming a formidable limitation in range. In fact, it is estimated that traditional metal detectors can only detect coins and jewelry at depths of only approximately 8 inches. In the case of the Magneto-Radar, however, induction of the target and magnetic field emanating from the target object can be obtained via use of the coil of a traditional metal detector or via a more powerful custom magnetic field generator. The strength of the induced magnetic field is usually directly proportional to the detection range. Significantly increased magnetic field strength can be obtained by generating short duration, high peak power, pulsed magnetic fields, even with traditional metal detector coils, without overheating the coil because of the extremely short duty cycle of the MIR or the field disturbance sensor needed to recognize movement of the target.

Additional technical information on Micropower Impulse Radar (MIR) Technologies and Methods can be obtained at:

http://www.llnl.gov/IPandC/technology/profile/sensor/MicropowerImpulseRadar

LLNL is seeking licensees with a demonstrated ability to bring such inventions to the market. Moving critical technology beyond the Laboratory to the commercial world helps our licensees gain a competitive edge in the marketplace. All licensing activities are conducted under policies relating to the strict nondisclosure of company proprietary information.

If you have further questions, contact: Bill Grant, at (925) 423-3082; or grant9@llnl.gov.

Companies interested in commercializing this technology should provide a written statement of interest that must include a description of corporate capability and experience relevant to this technology.



Written responses should be submitted by completing our online Company Contact form.

[Esteban]

Here the radar. The cost is the very cheap (US$ 70):