Mineoro 2-Box -- 492 feet range?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hello
About the 3 position switch,the owner dont tel me nothing. He put the device in my hands because he know i like to experimente devices performance,unfortunly i must return it very soon.Anyway i have hope to build a replica for me.
After take measurments of Antenna and ferrite,my job finish with Pistoldetektor,here. The fact that some people acuse me to put B.S. in this Forum makes me very sad,so i´m considering if i put public or not, the next measurments or X-ray of the Antenna.If i decide not put here,dont worry you will receive them by E-mail,and maybe more than you expect,of course Fred and Max also,because we are a team...

Happy Chrystmas

Hi Morgan,

Neither myself, Max or Fred think you are posting BS. I believe you are posting honest test results, and I personally thank you for all your hard work.

I'm still no sure about the switch though. When you put the cover back on the detector, is the switch now inside, or can the user still change the switch position from the outside. Or to put it another way - is the switch available to the user, like the sensitivity control?

Have a great Christmas!

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Hi Morgan,

How about the 3-position switch? Is this available for the operator to change the switch position, or is it inside the case?

Hello
On the top of the box there is the 3 position switch. I only get far away signals in one of this positions,the others i don´t know,i experienced nothing with the other 2 positions.I remember the owner told me about switch in one position this device only find precious metals,the other position most of non ferrous metals...I allways use in non ferrous.
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...

Kind regards

[detectoman]

hello morgan
congratulations for your big effort
please send me your messures and ray x photo
narm5@hotmail.com

thanks adviced
detectoman mexico

[Morgan]

The switch its outside,of course.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

There is not logic. You can't post a bmp more than 19.5 Kb.

The file of the film is near 8 Mb, so is impossible to post here. No want to put in mytemdir.com

Hi Esteban.
The logic of limiting file size in this forum is to save bandwidth. For this reason we cannot post large mpg files. If you can put your mpg file into a zip folder, then you can email it. I can post this mpg file on a private web server with a link in this forum for people who want to download it and watch it. If you are interested in doing this, then send me a private message, and I will give you an email address to send it.

You also could post the movie on youtube and put the link in your post.

Best wishes, and Merry Christmas,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hello
On the top of the box there is the 3 position switch. I only get far away signals in one of this positions,the others i don´t know,i experienced nothing with the other 2 positions.I remember the owner told me about switch in one position this device only find precious metals,the other position most of non ferrous metals...I allways use in non ferrous.
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...

Kind regards

Thanks Morgan. This is useful information.

[Fred]

Hi all!

Originally Posted by J_Player

Originally Posted by Fred
Maybe there's nothing to patent... or all this stuff was already patented by Fisher in 1930 !

Actually Max posted this.

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Have a look at the connections. Apart from the yellow and red wires - which I've already shown to be connected to at least one coil (the PI TX) -

The red wire is V+,when the switch is on right position.Only then the PCB2 receives supply In any other switch position the coil and PCB2 are not used..This supply could also be used for a preamp,together with the (-) white wire.
But this is really interesting to see that only a part of the detector is used each time, on the left position only PCB5 is used, on the right PCB2.And is pos 3 nothing.(?)

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hello
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...Kind regards

Yes,interesting!
Regards,
Fred.

[Max]

Hi all,
first of all thanks to Morgan for the useful informations about wire and led functions/purposes: yes I guessed that one is for battery, one for good "tuning" (green) and one for target indication (orange) that light up when buzzer start working ...cause are in parallel.

I've checked the Orange wire and I see now just one Orange wire from PCB3 that goes to BARRA:2 POSITION:E (2E) ; this was a mistake on reverse engineering.

The circuit schematic contains already the orange to 2E connection (that actually drive the green LED by PCB3 circuitry) so there's no need of mod it.

The green led is driven by circuit3 output and circuit5 output when it has supply voltage (just one position of 3 pos switch).

About circuit5 working... yes Fred and Qiaozhi are right on its passive nature (just receiver) ; I made mistake cause was thinking at some oscillator with series LC and other things but I missed that there isn't any feedback from amplifier transistor BC548 ! dang !
That could only mean there is just amplification of signal coming from coil(s) on...ferrite sticks. Now we have to guess its meaning in this circuit... and make some theory.

About supply wires for round container they are : RED wire (the one that binds to the 22R resistor) that is positive supply (+9V) and the "wire of shield" (that actually if the shield braid of cable that goes to round container) so GND connection. Other interesting wire is BLUE that is kinda of feedback for stabilizing (I think the whole receiver/amplifier of container and PCB2 in relation to temperature of components at PCB3 by the 3K9 carbon resistor).

The effect of resistance variation could be a cutoff filter frequency variation, with related amplitude rise/fall at sum node near (supposed) premp inside the container; the effect signal is applied to the base of first transistor of circuit 2... and enter by a RC filter for probably similar reasons.

Other wire is WHITE that I think output of round container amplifier.

The YELLOW wire is probably another feedback but for different purposes ???

Anyway...

Then (but its a very wild guess) the two parallel of capacitors (1N//6n remember me somehow some Wien bridge configuration: what do you think about... ?

Ops... I'm late... see you later !

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

This is the pistol in Morgan's hands.

Press free and get with the code:

http://rapidshare.com/files/78960653...n_LRL.MPG.html

Merry Christmas

[Max]

Hi all,
I'm thinking at purpose of passive receiver on device... and got a strange idea. Let me know what do you think about.

Ok... Let's make some assumptions:

from what we know of these devices (Esteban and others descriptions) we can say that the use of device like this is for expert people cause need special care about e.g. orientation.

- my theory is that device suffer from Earth magnetic field interaction
- so must be a way to know, in open environment like an open flat field with no reference points, if you are using device right... I mean with right orientation

I think purpose of passive RF receiver is just signaling (when supply present) if device is right orientated or not and what's quality of ignoring of e.g. Earth magnetic field.

Now we know Earth magnetic field has North-South component and the normal to surface component as well: for me these 2 must be ignored by device, and that could be done just using device parallel to soil and with East-West or West-East walking of operator: AM I RIGHT ABOUT THIS PROCEDURE ?

Now come back to our problem of passive receiver:
We have a passive probably MW-LW AM receiver that drive a green led, right ?

- How it can be used as I've indicated above to signal minimum influence of Earth magnetic field ???

- Ferrite is directive , so antenna coils of receiver are directive. Box is made of wood so entering signals RF components are not altered by e.g. other magnetic material deviation right ?

Suppose you have now 2 ferrite sticks you can vary the gap between to vary magnetic coupling , so inductance of coil. Didn't you noticed anything ?

If L vary you can actually tune an LC circuit to a particular frequency just varying the gap extension.

Now suppose the device is tuned that way:
- suppose you make ferrites orientation perfectly east-west
- suppose there is a known strong emission, a powerful radio station, on a particular frequency and you know it's located far east or far west from you
- suppose you can tune that particular radio station, cause of device construction, just adjusting the gap between ferrites
- once tuned receiver will pick up AM modulated signal from that far east or west radio station and signal its presence by the green led on

Then now...
- suppose you rotate device e.g. north-south , so ferrites also that are inside, what happens ?
Will the magnetic Earth field component null your tuning ? I think so.
- suppose you rotate device again east-west but tilting it pointing downguard to soil of e.g. 10° . Will that modify, again, your perfect tuning ? Again, I think so...

If my theory is right, the passive receiver act as a compass to signal when device is correctly oriented in the space, thus when Earth magnetic field is ignored (minimized) , so:
- when device is parallel to soil (perpendicular to normal component of Earth mag field)
- and when device is pointed east-west or west-east perfectly

What do you think of that theory?

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
have found an old commercial example of what I mean:

it's heatkit DF-1 model of transistor radio direction finder , used also for navigation (before GPS age , so it's grandpa's GSM !).

This model used the commercial AM broadcast band so: 540KHz to 1620KHz.

I think is really similar to what we see there at passive receiver

Look at the enclosed ferrite stick on top... can be rotated by the control knob on front panel to desired angle to find maximum instrument deviation, so maximum signal strenght.

Best regards,
Max

[hung]

He,he,he. How a reunion of some skeptics EEs here turned the inspection of a LRL circuitry into an analysis of a time machine.
The wild guesses are unique!

PS. Hey, I just found Carl in one of the physics forum I watch.
It was quite a surprise watch how humble he is in asking questions to the experts there in order to clarify his own doubts.
I wonder why he did not rely on his own forum as a possible first option for this. Maybe not to run the risk of scratching Carl's 'know it all' appearance?

Merry Xmas everyone.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Esteban

This is the pistol in Morgan's hands.

Press free and get with the code:

http://rapidshare.com/files/78960653...n_LRL.MPG.html

Merry Christmas

Hi Esteban,
Yes. The sonalarme nice beeping sound. Send my best regards to Alonso.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Max

I think that this circuits will detect the Earth magnetic field :

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaver...ml#GEOMAGNETIC
and

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaver...html#SENSITIVE

Perhaps it can be useful for to envelope your idea.
Merry Christmas and happy new year

[Max]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi Max

I think that this circuits will detect the Earth magnetic field :

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaver...ml#GEOMAGNETIC
and

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaver...html#SENSITIVE

Perhaps it can be useful for to envelope your idea.
Merry Christmas and happy new year

Hi Franco,
thanks for your links , find them interesting.

First is based on a Clapp oscillator schematic and give beating note at Earth mag field coupling variation at ferrite; second is true BFO based on two simmetric Clapp scheme oscillators with 2 ferrites (kinda of induction balanced BFO).

Both are interesting to see effect of Earth magnetic field on the beating frequency the operator can hear.

But returning to our problem of passive receiver I think it's much more easy thing: there isn't oscillator, so it's just a receiver like old crystal receivers but with transistor amplifiers.

So I think purpose (though there's similar principle of operation) is different and is just giving indication of right positioning of device (parallel to soil and east-west orientated) one can check at any moment, e.g. before start walking, enabling the receiver (using the relative position on the 3-pos. slider switch). And all that just cause of a well known transmitter used as "reference" for east-west orientation.

Maybe I'm wrong on that, but it's an idea that could open new ways to understand presence of receiver there.

Merry Christmas,
Max

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by hung

Hi Esteban,
Yes. The sonalarme nice beeping sound. Send my best regards to Alonso.

Hi Hung. OK.

[Max]

Hi Esteban,
just my curiosity...about AM stations in South America...

I know there is a strong AM radio station in Sao Paulo, Brazil running on 1100KHz and with 200KW RF power.

It's maybe a "Radio Globo" station ?

Do you receive it from Paraguay ?

I think that with right stuff one can receive it also from the Moon ... but I don't know if you receive it well in central part of continent; I think you can and signal must be strong. Am I right ?

Actually I can receive it strong (but not always)...and I'm really far from it... maybe more than 10000-12000Kms far away (don't know exactly)!

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

What is the type of detector wich become commercial in few time as a new think, the new toy for the detectorist?

OPEN discussion showing details is not the best. I think the best is discuss this in clossed thread with password between few members:

J_Player, Administrator, Morgan, Max, Qiaozhi, Fred, Hung, Putrechigi, FrancoItaly, Detectoman, Geo, Michael and Esteban.

These name are here regarding participation in this thread.

Think in this possibility: you put all the schematics and details here and other with some modifications launch in market in few time. SURE. Of course, you'll think you are "heros" because solve the enigma. And???? Simple: Nobody will recognize all your job.

Remember: here there are visitors catching opportunities for to build it and convert in simple commerce in few time. The rest, about rights, etc., are theories.


Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi Esteban,
just my curiosity...about AM stations in South America...

I know there is a strong AM radio station in Sao Paulo, Brazil running on 1100KHz and with 200KW RF power.

It's maybe a "Radio Globo" station ?

Do you receive it from Paraguay ?

I think that with right stuff one can receive it also from the Moon ... but I don't know if you receive it well in central part of continent; I think you can and signal must be strong. Am I right ?

Actually I can receive it strong (but not always)...and I'm really far from it... maybe more than 10000-12000Kms far away (don't know exactly)!

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max

At the night you receive very well many stations from Brazil, Argentina, Moscow (in the Cold War era), Egypt, BBC, 1,000!!! In special I hear tons of emissions with my old radio Grundig model Locarno!!! This was great for to hear almost all!!! Maybe from Mars.

But regarding strong local AM stations, you can hear in the simple voltage regulator!!!

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

What is the type of detector wich become commercial in few time as a new think, the new toy for the detectorist?

OPEN discussion showing details is not the best. I think the best is discuss this in clossed thread with password between few members:

J_Player, Administrator, Morgan, Max, Qiaozhi, Fred, Hung, Putrechigi, FrancoItaly, Detectoman, Geo, Michael and Esteban.

These name are here regarding participation in this thread.

Think in this possibility: you put all the schematics and details here and other with some modifications launch in market in few time. SURE. Of course, you'll think you are "heros" because solve the enigma. And???? Simple: Nobody will recognize all your job.

Remember: here there are visitors catching opportunities for to build it and convert in simple commerce in few time. The rest, about rights, etc., are theories.


Regards

Esteban

Hi Esteban,
I haven't solved the enigma...and others same thing: we just gave some more light but there are other and more important details about e.g. coils and round container stuff that we can discuss in private if you want, if there is a good reason of doing so we can do that way.

Let me know.

Kind regards,
Max

[hung]

Originally Posted by Max

I know there is a strong AM radio station in Sao Paulo, Brazil running on 1100KHz and with 200KW RF power.

It's maybe a "Radio Globo" station ?

Hey Max, some corrections:

Radio Globo is from Rio and it runs on 1220 KHz.
What's your point? You wanna listen the narration of Flamengo playing the soccer championship?
Regular RF power is not 'the most important'...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

He,he,he. How a reunion of some skeptics EEs here turned the inspection of a LRL circuitry into an analysis of a time machine.
The wild guesses are unique!

PS. Hey, I just found Carl in one of the physics forum I watch.
It was quite a surprise watch how humble he is in asking questions to the experts there in order to clarify his own doubts.
I wonder why he did not rely on his own forum as a possible first option for this. Maybe not to run the risk of scratching Carl's 'know it all' appearance?

Merry Xmas everyone.

Merry Xmas Hung! I was wondering when you would show up.

By the way, there is a difference between speculation and guessing.
I sense you are starting to get nervous.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

This is the pistol in Morgan's hands.

Press free and get with the code:

http://rapidshare.com/files/78960653...n_LRL.MPG.html

Merry Christmas

Hi Esteban,

In your video you do not show the green LED in operation. This is supposed to be something to do with tuning. Please can you tell us how you set this up?

Regarding a closed forum - we are currently discussing this, but you do not accept private messages.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Hi Esteban,

In your video you do not show the green LED in operation. This is supposed to be something to do with tuning. Please can you tell us how you set this up?

Regarding a closed forum - we are currently discussing this, but you do not accept private messages.

Hello
I agree with this "closed group" to work in LRL Pistoldetektor Antenna.
We must respect the inventor of this technology...
Maybe all together,we can discover more things

Happy Christmas to all

[gold24h]

From watching the video it apears that the knob on top is not a three posistion switch,it is a potentiometer with a on off switch,you turn it to the right and it clicks once,this turns it on,from then on the knob works as an ajustable resister to set the threshold of detection.I would like to build one of these but unless we can get the scematics simpler i do not think i can,what would really help is if we knew the operating princable of what it is doing.