Temperature, the best friend of LRL's

[Geo]

Hi.
Today i tried for second time a new LRL. It is a simple magnetic field detector with some modifications, plus a fm tuner as Esteban shows many times. First time i went to a place with some copper coins burient 18...19 years ago.
No results. It was a day after rain with temp about 25o Celcius.
I went again today at 18:00. Temperature 38 oC. Yes.... i received a lot of signals around 3...4 m. Beeps was from MFD and not from radio fm because every time that i had beep, i had indication from the leds. Beeps was random and short, no continued. So the problem was again the same, no way to pin-point. But with this temperature, something is happening. It is the first time that i took signal from copper with lrl of this technology.
I went again at 21:15. Temperature was 29oC. No beeps . The first led sometimes was light but no beeps. Maybe the out of MFD want a little modification so the beeps to coming easy when the led light a litle.
But the resume is one. With big temperature the "magnetic field" is more strong than it at lower temp.

Regards

[Fred]

Hi Geo,
Interesting, thanks for sharing,
Could ambient humidity, related to temperature, influence it ?

[detectoman]

hey geo, shure this isnt detection, may be is effect of sun hot warm on capacitors, transistores coils etc, and then is erratic, put lrl, whit insulation, then return the try
embraces

[detectoman]

geo always try whitout sun

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi.
Today i tried for second time a new LRL. It is a simple magnetic field detector with some modifications, plus a fm tuner as Esteban shows many times. First time i went to a place with some copper coins burient 18...19 years ago.
No results. It was a day after rain with temp about 25o Celcius.
I went again today at 18:00. Temperature 38 oC. Yes.... i received a lot of signals around 3...4 m. Beeps was from MFD and not from radio fm because every time that i had beep, i had indication from the leds. Beeps was random and short, no continued. So the problem was again the same, no way to pin-point. But with this temperature, something is happening. It is the first time that i took signal from copper with lrl of this technology.
I went again at 21:15. Temperature was 29oC. No beeps . The first led sometimes was light but no beeps. Maybe the out of MFD want a little modification so the beeps to coming easy when the led light a litle.
But the resume is one. With big temperature the "magnetic field" is more strong than it at lower temp.

Regards

Hi Geo,
This is an interesting report. After two days of testing, you concluded that high temperature improves the detection using the magnetic coil and FM radio receiver. But Fred asks "Could ambient humidity, related to temperature, influence it "?
Fred' question makes me think about the method that you used to determine that temperature caused the improvement. What comes to mind is that very likely, the humidity played a part in the change in performance. And I wonder what other natural forces also influenced the detection of this equipment?

If you are monitoring variations in small currents flowing in the coil, this would suggest you are measuring variations in the magnetic field, or variations in radio waves that induce a current in the coil from the magnetic portion of a wave, when the wave is transitioning to an unbalanced state of power on the positive and negative lobes. If there is a diode or transistor in the coil circuit that only permits one-direction current, then the coil could actually receive AM broadcast transmissions, or receive a rectified RF signal from some other source.

If these are the signals that you are detecting, then in either case, I would expect that your detector would work better in times when the atmospheric charge is greater. This is due to the fact that when we have a larger atmospheric charge, there will be more current leaking to the soil above the long-time buried metal. This current flowing will focus down the ion column to produce an anomaly compared to the surrounding soil, and will induce a small magnetic field as a result.

This effect is greatly inhibited when there is not much static charge in the air. During the lifetime of a rain storm there are times when the static charge can drop to zero, and even reverse. And as the storm recedes, the static charge will usually recover to it's normal clear-day level. While all this is happening, the humidity has a large effect on the static charge in the air. Lower humidity tends to promote a better charge, while high humidity causes the air to conduct better, and decreases the static charge. This is further complicated by the electric charges that are generated by the friction of water droplets in the air as well as at the surface of the ocean. And there are other forces of nature that can change the static charge in the air, such as solar activities, dust generated in cities, natural dust storms, etc.

What I am wondering is if the temperature is what caused the change in performance, or was it something else that changed over the same time duration that the temperature changed?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi Geo,
Interesting, thanks for sharing,
Could ambient humidity, related to temperature, influence it ?

Hi Fred
I don't know. I read the temp via the car temperature meter. I must find a small meter for humidity (this that i have is on a big clock) and to check it. Also i must check how the signal vary with temp at other objects (silver, bronze, al etc).

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by detectoman

hey geo, shure this isnt detection, may be is effect of sun hot warm on capacitors, transistores coils etc, and then is erratic, put lrl, whit insulation, then return the try
embraces

Hi. If it is from the sun, why after 5...10 meters i have not any beeps???

Regards

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
I believe that it is the temperature that caused the change in performance. Because in 3 hours the only big change was at temperature (from 38 it went 29 o C). In a normal good day i believe that humidity don't change so much in a duration of 3 hours

Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
I believe that it is the temperature that caused the change in performance. Because in 3 hours the only big change was at temperature (from 38 it went 29 o C). In a normal good day i believe that humidity don't change so much in a duration of 3 hours

Regards

You could try heating the device with a hairdryer to see if the performance of the circuit is heat dependent.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
I believe that it is the temperature that caused the change in performance. Because in 3 hours the only big change was at temperature (from 38 it went 29 o C). In a normal good day i believe that humidity don't change so much in a duration of 3 hours

Regards

Hi Geo,
I have read reports that the detection using LRLs can change due to a change of the time of day. According to some reports, a change of 3 hours is enough to change the detection abilities due to changes in a daily cycle that is keyed to the solar and electrical activity in the upper ionosphere which drives the voltage gradient at the surface. the air temperature plays some part in the gradient, but a stronger force was reported due to the daily ionospheric cycle that changes throughout the day, and moves as the earth turns.

It would be interesting to make more tests when you see a temperature change over a short period of time to see if your observations are repeated. Also it would be good to make observations when the temperature increases after a few hours. This will tend to confirm the conclusions you reached,

But if you observe that the performance of your coil does not follow the same observation of better performance when the temperature is higher, then maybe something else is contributing to the performance improvement.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

You could try heating the device with a hairdryer to see if the performance of the circuit is heat dependent.

Or just paint it all black...

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

You could try heating the device with a hairdryer to see if the performance of the circuit is heat dependent.

Originally Posted by Max
Or just paint it all black...

Hi Max,
This will work to test if the circuitry performance is temperature dependent. But suppose the air temperature in the vicinity of the treasure and surrounding areas is what will change the performance, not the circuitry?

I suspect the performance of the circuitry is not largely changed by the 9 C temperature drop that Geo cited, but it is possible. It sounds to me that the change in beeps is more likely caused by a difference in atmospheric conditions that is linked to the time of day, in a similar manner to how some radio broadcasts are diminished after a certain time of the day.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

As long as the device is zeroed constantly i don´t see how components temperature can affect much of his behaviour.

[Esteban]

Well, temperature ups the gain of semiconductor. Is very easy to comprobe it. Put a transistor in your gain transistor checker. Put near the transistor a hot iron and see how can rapid ups the gain. You have this option: ever use transistors lowest in gain no more than 150-180. This method is for pistol based on transistors. Here the hot is very strong and inestability comes. So, in the case of Geo hot helps, but excesive causes inestabilities.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Well, temperature ups the gain of semiconductor. Is very easy to comprobe it. Put a transistor in your gain transistor checker. Put near the transistor a hot iron and see how can rapid ups the gain. You have this option: ever use transistors lowest in gain no more than 150-180. This method is for pistol based on transistors. Here the hot is very strong and inestability comes. So, in the case of Geo hot helps, but excesive causes inestabilities.

The temperature that Geo is talking about is not in the sun. It is only a temperature difference of 9C. This is not the temperature change you find when you put a transistor near a hot iron. It is the temperature change that you may see when you put your hand on a transistor to warm it in the night.

The day time temperature found in Paraguay when a painted surface is placed in the sun can be hot enough to cook food on, depending on the time of day. This is caused by the radiant heat from the sun. This is much hotter than the air temperature. The temperature Geo reported was the air temperature when the sun was not in the sky. Only air conduction working to put heat into his LRL. And only a 9C temperature change. This makes me think something else caused the change in beeps.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Can't found the link in the pic on forum. What happens? More very old post I can found, but no this. Here I draw an experiment with copper and zinc wires exposed at Sun wich generates small amount of electricity.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=sun+involved

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

The temperature that Geo is talking about is not in the sun. It is only a temperature difference of 9C. This is not the temperature change you find when you put a transistor near a hot iron. It is the temperature change that you may see when you put your hand on a transistor to warm it in the night.

The day time temperature found in Paraguay when a painted surface is placed in the sun can be hot enough to cook food on, depending on the time of day. This is caused by the radiant heat from the sun. This is much hotter than the air temperature. The temperature Geo reported was the air temperature when the sun was not in the sky. Only air conduction working to put heat into his LRL. And only a 9C temperature change. This makes me think something else caused the change in beeps.

Best wishes,
J_P

Yes, is OK. But when you run in places with such equipment, hot from the Sun helps detector, and other extreme start inestabilities.

Regards

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Well, temperature ups the gain of semiconductor. Is very easy to comprobe it. Put a transistor in your gain transistor checker. Put near the transistor a hot iron and see how can rapid ups the gain. You have this option: ever use transistors lowest in gain no more than 150-180. This method is for pistol based on transistors. Here the hot is very strong and inestability comes. So, in the case of Geo hot helps, but excesive causes inestabilities.

Or ... better use small miniature tubes... and no semiconductors in input stage....

But this don't prove the LRLs work... of course. Instability is common problem in old MDs as well... and other stuff that have to work with hi amplification chain.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Max,
This will work to test if the circuitry performance is temperature dependent. But suppose the air temperature in the vicinity of the treasure and surrounding areas is what will change the performance, not the circuitry?

I suspect the performance of the circuitry is not largely changed by the 9 C temperature drop that Geo cited, but it is possible. It sounds to me that the change in beeps is more likely caused by a difference in atmospheric conditions that is linked to the time of day, in a similar manner to how some radio broadcasts are diminished after a certain time of the day.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
don't know... maybe is just instability related to minority carriers... old problem of any transistor based design...

there's a -2mV/K variation due to pn junctions forward polarized also... happens e.g. in diodes... but also at bipolar transistors and other things.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Can't found the link in the pic on forum. What happens? More very old post I can found, but no this. Here I draw an experiment with copper and zinc wires exposed at Sun wich generates small amount of electricity.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=sun+involved

The two metals make a junction.... the two metals reflects different way the sunrays and so heath up at slightly different temperature... when this happens you get Seebeck effect again... like in thermocouples... and if put in short turn you'll get a small current flowing inside the turn.

The current is really small... the voltage generated is small too...

having enough sensitive apparatus is possible detect the very weak magnetic field generated by current flow... but just very near to the loop, for reasons already explained... the magnitude decay as power of 3 with distance...

By using a sensitive hi-impedance microvoltmeter you can read directly the voltage... at junction.

The effect is much increased if you cool one side of junction... by e.g. dry ice... but I don't see how all that correlates with LRL stuff...

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Or ... better use small miniature tubes... and no semiconductors in input stage....

But this don't prove the LRLs work... of course. Instability is common problem in old MDs as well... and other stuff that have to work with hi amplification chain.

Kind regards,
Max

OK, but the problem is present in 4 transistors, not only in the first. Of course, I "solved" the problem inventing the "Esteban transistor" Ã* la oil.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

The two metals make a junction.... the two metals reflects different way the sunrays and so heath up at slightly different temperature... when this happens you get Seebeck effect again... like in thermocouples... and if put in short turn you'll get a small current flowing inside the turn.

The current is really small... the voltage generated is small too...

having enough sensitive apparatus is possible detect the very weak magnetic field generated by current flow... but just very near to the loop, for reasons already explained... the magnitude decay as power of 3 with distance...

By using a sensitive hi-impedance microvoltmeter you can read directly the voltage... at junction.

The effect is much increased if you cool one side of junction... by e.g. dry ice... but I don't see how all that correlates with LRL stuff...

Kind regards,
Max

Max, relations, relations... In soil occurs similar with long time buried metal, an ammount of electricity with is "own atmosphere"...

[Aurificus]

Reposted from Hypothesis, since we are talking temperature here!!

If My proposed signal effect is "powered" by diurnal solar radiation then detectable depth is likely to max out at around 0.3 metres. .

Great illustration, Wish I'd found it earlier!!
The amount of "lag" is clearly shown too.

Not completely BUSTED, But definitely, Bruised & Battered.
Cheers, Aurificus

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi.
Today i tried for second time a new LRL. It is a simple magnetic field detector with some modifications, plus a fm tuner as Esteban shows many times. First time i went to a place with some copper coins burient 18...19 years ago.
No results. It was a day after rain with temp about 25o Celcius.
I went again today at 18:00. Temperature 38 oC. Yes.... i received a lot of signals around 3...4 m. Beeps was from MFD and not from radio fm because every time that i had beep, i had indication from the leds. Beeps was random and short, no continued. So the problem was again the same, no way to pin-point. But with this temperature, something is happening. It is the first time that i took signal from copper with lrl of this technology.
I went again at 21:15. Temperature was 29oC. No beeps . The first led sometimes was light but no beeps. Maybe the out of MFD want a little modification so the beeps to coming easy when the led light a litle.
But the resume is one. With big temperature the "magnetic field" is more strong than it at lower temp.

Regards

Hello Geo

My advice to you is to not build more LRL gizmos until you see PD working here in my country.Not lose time building crap.
I´m sure after you test the real LRL device (PISTOLDETEKTOR)and see results,your mind concentrate more in reality,not LRL fiction from twilight zone

Regards

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi.
Today i tried for second time a new LRL. It is a simple magnetic field detector with some modifications, plus a fm tuner as Esteban shows many times. First time i went to a place with some copper coins burient 18...19 years ago.
No results. It was a day after rain with temp about 25o Celcius.
I went again today at 18:00. Temperature 38 oC. Yes.... i received a lot of signals around 3...4 m. Beeps was from MFD and not from radio fm because every time that i had beep, i had indication from the leds. Beeps was random and short, no continued. So the problem was again the same, no way to pin-point. But with this temperature, something is happening. It is the first time that i took signal from copper with lrl of this technology.
I went again at 21:15. Temperature was 29oC. No beeps . The first led sometimes was light but no beeps. Maybe the out of MFD want a little modification so the beeps to coming easy when the led light a litle.
But the resume is one. With big temperature the "magnetic field" is more strong than it at lower temp.

Regards

Remember,Pistoldetektors work fine during the day and night,only raining afect detection distance.