US Department of Justice Identifies MFD and HID as Worthless Dowsing Gadgets

[Dell Winders]

You've been asked thousands of times over many decades to demonstrate electronic metering of your imaginary signal lines. To this date, you've not come forth with even a single spec of evidence, or supporting documentation.

Theseus, have you no honesty or integrity? You called my use of fully electronic metering MFD (no Rods) a "Bald faced Lie", inferring that I am a Liar, and now you dance around that claim. Prove to your supporters, and Geotech viewers that your claim about me is true. Show that you have credibility.

I contend that you are a chronic Liar, posting under a fictitious name with No credibility whatsoever. Your allegation is Bogus, the product of a demented, delusional, radical Skeptic mindset.

You continue to dance around and evade the responsibility of proving your serious allegations against me because there is nothing else you can do but apologize for your chronic lieing. I am aware that your ego would never allow you to admit to, or apologize to me for your wrong doings. But, if you can't show proof of your asinine allegation, the opening for a sincere apology is there.

Theseus, To establish your own credibility, can you be more specific? Who is it that has asked me thousands of times over decades? Apparently, it's not you. The name Theseus, is relativity new to this forum, and represented here as an apparently fictitious name with no credibility what so ever.

The only other complainant I am aware of is a certifiable Nut case Whacko, named Sam Scafferi, who has been kicked off of every Treasure forum he ever posted his real name on.

Again, show your proof that totally electronically metered Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination (MFD), that I used for 8 years, does not exist, and that I am lieing about it. Please Go ahead, show any such factual proof to the viewers here that I am lieing about what I say.

I am fully aware that you are unable to back your words with truth, or evidence because you know as well as I, that your allegations are false, and you are trying to deceive trusting viewers by pretending you know what you are talking about. Stupid is, as Stupid does.

Theseus, I challenge you show you have credibility, and back up your venomous allegations with substance, so viewers can clearly see the truthfulness of your comments. Otherwise, you are just another egotistical skeptic mental case seeking attention for your self at some one else's expense. Dell

To the rest of you, I tell the truth. The original Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination instruments were fully electronic, with electronic metering. I field tested, and used a variety of these privately built inventions over a period of 8 years, on land, over water, and from the air. And of course, this is provable in a court of law, or I wouldn't have stated this in the past, or restate it now.

You are free to accept my word on this, or you can demand that Theseus, and his supporters (if any) demonstrate his own honesty and credibility by showing proof of his allegation that the truthful statement of my using fully electronic, electronically metered, remote sensing, locating from a distance instruments, is as Theseus, termed, "A BOLD-FACED LIE"

Folks, Do your own research to learn the truth, or go ahead and vote your conscience of whose word you accept on this matter, THESEUS, or DELL ? Thanks! Dell

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

And of course, this is provable in a court of law, or I wouldn't have stated this in the past, or restate it now.

Dell, what is your fully claim regarding your devices that can be provable by court of law?

[Max]

Originally Posted by WM6

Dell, what is your fully claim regarding your devices that can be provable by court of law?

Does matter ?

Nobody will sue him... what hope to e.g. fine him ?

I think many LRL magicians and charlatans declare they're broke cause of that....

btw... they have the power of discover gold using long range locators and / or simple dowsing rods BUT DECLARE THEY ARE BROKE, PEOPLE!

Don't make you laugh ?

Maybe they recover gold for others...

Or maybe they get all that gold and give to no-profit organizations to buy medicines and food for african childrens ...

Or maybe they simply forgot where they put the tons of gold they recovered...

Or just make gifts to people passing the street near their home... or whatever...

Or maybe they lost count of gold they found and cause of all calculations they made burnt all neurons and now need to pay for medical expenses...

Hmmm...

Strange these LRL broke guys...

I will spend whole fortune in Las Vegas with chicks and champagne ...instead!

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

For a big guy, up in years, you are still pretty light on your feet. When you get done with all your dancein' around.... you can prove yourself to the forum by posting what you claim is possible:

1. Show proof of the existence of something you call Signal Lines.
2. Show said Signal Lines being measured with electronic measuring devices (does not include L-rods or dowsing tools).
3. Demonstrate both 1. and 2. above to a panel of qualified dis-interested third-parties who can judge if you achieved both constraints 1. and 2. fairly and to their satisfaction.

If you choose not to do that than I guess you can dance (and name call) all you want, but you're still nothing but a snake oil salesman, irritated because you been exposed at your favorite Wallet-mining game.

BTW, several members here go by a Username, that is probably not their real name. If that's a crime maybe you should ask Carl or Qiaozhi to rewrite the rules of the forum so they would be more to your liking. No one is forcing you to post here. If you don't like the place, why hang around?

[Dell Winders]

Theseus, you are caught in your own web of lies about me. Quit trying to evade, and worm your way out. If what you say about me is true, then why is it a problem for to show the folks here that you are truthful, and that your word is trustworthy, and credible?

Go ahead, PLEASE show the viewers your proof that I am lieing about my field use, and testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight( years.

Your tangible proof that I am lieing about this, as you claim, will invalidate anything I may ever say regarding my products. Isn't the Skeptic agenda to discredit me, and put me out of business? Now is your chance. Prove your allegation that I am lieing, and you will have succeeded, where 16 years of Skeptic publications and attacks have failed. Go for it Theseus. Prove to the folks here that you are not the mentally challenged chronic liar that I purport you to be.

Carl, supports your efforts, he's not going to kick you off this forum. There is no law against lieing, so you know you are safe to continue your demented lies.

So far, you haven't made any effort to show proof of your allegations against me. You have not established any credibility for yourself, so it's fair for folks to assume you are untruthful, and the chronic Liar that I described? Dell

You've been asked thousands of times over many decades to demonstrate electronic metering of your imaginary signal lines. To this date, you've not come forth with even a single spec of evidence, or supporting documentation.

Theseus, have you no honesty or integrity? You called my use of fully electronic metering MFD (no Rods) a "Bald faced Lie", inferring that I am a Liar, and now you dance around that claim. Prove to your supporters, and Geotech viewers that your claim about me is true. Show that you have credibility.

I contend that you are a chronic Liar, posting under a fictitious name with No credibility whatsoever. Your allegation is Bogus, the product of a demented, delusional, radical Skeptic mindset.

You continue to dance around and evade the responsibility of proving your serious allegations against me because there is nothing else you can do but apologize for your chronic lieing. I am aware that your ego would never allow you to admit to, or apologize to me for your wrong doings. But, if you can't show proof of your asinine allegation, the opening for a sincere apology is there.

Theseus, To establish your own credibility, can you be more specific? Who is it that has asked me thousands of times over decades? Apparently, it's not you. The name Theseus, is relativity new to this forum, and represented here as an apparently fictitious name with no credibility what so ever.

The only other complainant I am aware of is a certifiable Nut case Whacko, named Sam Scafferi, who has been kicked off of every Treasure forum he ever posted his real name on.

Again, show your proof that totally electronically metered Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination (MFD), that I used for 8 years, does not exist, and that I am lieing about it. Please Go ahead, show any such factual proof to the viewers here that I am lieing about what I say.

I am fully aware that you are unable to back your words with truth, or evidence because you know as well as I, that your allegations are false, and you are trying to deceive trusting viewers by pretending you know what you are talking about. Stupid is, as Stupid does.

Theseus, I challenge you show you have credibility, and back up your venomous allegations with substance, so viewers can clearly see the truthfulness of your comments. Otherwise, you are just another egotistical skeptic mental case seeking attention for your self at some one else's expense. Dell

To the rest of you, I tell the truth. The original Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination instruments were fully electronic, with electronic metering. I field tested, and used a variety of these privately built inventions over a period of 8 years, on land, over water, and from the air. And of course, this is provable in a court of law, or I wouldn't have stated this in the past, or restate it now.

You are free to accept my word on this, or you can demand that Theseus, and his supporters (if any) demonstrate his own honesty and credibility by showing proof of his allegation that the truthful statement of my using fully electronic, electronically metered, remote sensing, locating from a distance instruments, is as Theseus, termed, "A BOLD-FACED LIE"

Folks, Do your own research to learn the truth, or go ahead and vote your conscience of whose word you accept on this matter, THESEUS, or DELL as being the truth? Thanks! Dell

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Go ahead, PLEASE show the viewers your proof that I am lieing about my field use, and testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight( years.

The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull .

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull .

Yeah,
That's what I see too. I read stories of electronically finding signal lines that show there is a treasure. Then I read the treasure was confirmed by a dowser who says "there's treasure down there", or running a ground probing radar scan along "signal lines" until something buried is found.

Did the dowsing and GPR stuff prove the signal line located a treasure? Or did they serve to show a dowser agrees, and a GPR says there is something buried in the ground somewhere nearby?

Why not forget the dowsing and GPR stuff ....
Simply dig up the "treasure" at a spot marked by "signal lines" and see what you located to "really" confirm it?
If you can do that consistently maybe 7 times out of 10 tries, then I would open my eyes and say "Yup, them signal lines sure do show where the treasure is!".

Don't think we've seen that yet... eh?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Yeah,
That's what I see too. I read stories of electronically finding signal lines that show there is a treasure. Then I read the treasure was confirmed by a dowser who says "there's treasure down there", or running a ground radar scan along a signal line that shows something is buried somewhere in the general vicinity.

Why not forget the dowsing and GPR stuff.... simply dig up the "treasure" at the spot marked by "signal lines" and see what you located to "really" confirm it?
If you can do that consistently maybe 7 times out of 10 tries, then I would open my eyes and say "Yup, them signal lines sure do show where the treasure is!".

Don't think we've seen that yet... eh?

Best wishes,
J_P

JP, I fail to see where any of your examples relate to me. Is this a diversion, or cover up to keep from answering the question, and bypassing the post "Is Thesues, credible and trustworthy, or is he being untruthful in his claims that I am lieing about my experienced field use of fully electronic, electronically metered, distance locators. Which of us do you think is lieing? Dell

The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull

FRED, My products are advertised as an "AIDE" to Locating and Discrimination to a variety of Chemical elements, and Not as a perfect solution, or with the technological claims advertised by LRL manufacturers from the Electronics Industry, to justify high prices and rip off consumers.

My products are simple, home built, and mostly built on request. It is a matter of honesty and integrity.

I can honestly relate what my customers have told me they have found, only when I have their permission. This, of course only provides possibilities for the consumer, based on what has already been done, discovered, recovered, or happened with others in the past, with the aid of my products. Granted, it doesn't make for very good advertising copy.

You appear disappointed that I won't make false or exaggerated claims about my products?

I cannot be honest and claim what a Customer will find, or will not find with the aid of my products. I can, and do explain the limitations of my products, along with instructions, based on my own field experience, of how to get the best use from them.

Now, back to the issue of Theseus, truthfullness and credibility? Dell

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

To the rest of you, I tell the truth. The original Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination instruments were fully electronic, with electronic metering.

Dell

Dell, are this your argument-ed claims?

Sorry but this mean nothing.

My UNI-T UT70A Portable Intelligent Digital Multimeter "were fully electronic, with electronic metering" and discriminate frequency to 10MHz too, all certified, but still nothing of remote sensing although it is intelligent.

But your box is not even intelligent and you claim that it is Remote sensing?

look:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNI-T-UT70A-Po...4.c0.m14.l1262

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

My products are advertised as an "AIDE" to Locating and Discrimination to a variety of Chemical elements, and Not as a perfect solution,

This include gold too and exclude all complains after Remote sensing detect nothing, cause it is "Not perfect solution" therefore no guarantee.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Kev,
I really like your technical posts in other forums. You are one of the best. And now you got me interested in this explanation of dowsing. It appears there are two mechanisms at work here: 1. Opening a channel of mind submission, and 2. inciting visions of wealth and power. I can see how the idea of dowsing to find treasure can be motivated by finding wealth, and it is done in a manner where the mind may be manipulated to become submissive to unknown influences.

G'day JP,
I too have enjoyed reading your posts over the years, and had a good number of laughs over your LRL ones.
I'm unfamiliar with the device pictured, but I see a box with a dial on it, and some other bits, it looks interesting and raises the prospect of some specialised electronic device within, but wait…I see the paint roller handle…… all expectation gone pooooff

I know now that the box will only contain nonsensical blah, such as a 555 humming away in vane, or the like. All intricately devised to make some poor sucker think, this device actually does something more than make an annoying noise...........but here's the strange part, if some guy believes enough and has the aptitude of mind, those pieces of junk may actually be used to lead him to find something worthwhile.

I see what you’re saying JP, where's the line between LRL/divining and legitimate metal detecting, well I believe they can be a little smudged, but essentially for most everyday people the line exists where the signal processing happens. A metal detector processes the signals and gives you an indication that you then interpret in your brain as simply metal or not, dig or not. However the LRL/divining relies on the electro-chemical device between your ears to do the signal processing, this is where it gets tricky. Not everyone has the easily accessable aptitude to be able to do this, not like a metal detector where everyone with a smidgen of intelligence can operate it. This aptitude is not necessarily a good thing, it is possible that a person of this type can use a metal detector just the same as an LRL if they are in the right state of consciousness and open to channels, which I'm not going to go into here.

I know the point when I have descended into lower levels of consciousness, and it has been at times such as this, that I have been walking along a beach with my metal detector and veered straight off up to a gold and diamond ring, and it's the only target for many yards around. This has happened on a few occasions, but it scares me very much... do do do...do do do...do do…………..seriously I avoid that like I now do LSD and magic mushrooms.

Suffice it to say, Yahuweh through the law given to Moses stipulated that anyone found in the camp of Israel who employed divination, uncanny power, consulting foretellers of events, etc., were to be cut off in death immediately. The reason being they had adulterated their spiritual integrity, by committing spiritual fornication, and would thereby become a source of contamination to others. God was trying to protect his people from some pretty serious unwholesome influences, and it is no different today, hence I class the operational power of these devices along with divination and uncanny power.

Dell will pipe up and say uncanny power is just undiscovered technology, (signal lines ) and it is true that we are only scratching the surface in our understanding of many fields of science, one such being magnetism. However, this uncanny power I refering too, relies upon manipulated subconscious brain functions of the operator, especially with devices such as the paint roller handle pointer type. For the majority of people of sound mind these devices are not going to work. A number of the other devices that do have some internal indication much like a metal detector (albeit, response to random natural stimuli, Minero comes to mind) may not even work for diviners because the mind connection is broken. Additionally for the average Joe, they will not work because they are based on pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo, expressly designed to take advantage of peoples need and greed, and to ultimately fleece them of their money, (Dell) but I don’t need to convince you of this JP, you have sense enough to see that yourself. Beware the one trying to pull the wool over your eyes, it is the wolf!

It appears some people are born with a divining aptitude, much like some people take to calculus or music like a duck to water. Perhaps the filters between lower levels of sub-conscious and conscious mind are broken or tuned a certain way, and for some this equates to madness, but whatever the reason we are so much more than our conscious mind thinks we are.
Be careful out there.
Cheers
Kev.

Sorry fro the long post...looks like one of Dell's rants

[Theseus]

Additionally for the average Joe, they will not work because they are based on pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo, expressly designed to take advantage of peoples need and greed, and to ultimately fleece them of their money, (Dell)

Well, Dell, it appears I'm not the only one that can see through your little schemes and marketing ploys. (thanks, Kev)

Are you getting the sympathy and responses you'd expected?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

JP, I fail to see where any of your examples relate to me. Is this a diversion, or cover up to keep from answering the question, and bypassing the post "Is Thesues, credible and trustworthy, or is he being untruthful in his claims that I am lieing about my experienced field use of fully electronic, electronically metered, distance locators. Which of us do you think is lieing? Dell

Hi Dell,
I didn't say any of my examples relate to you. I wasn't even replying to you.... I was replying to Fred (scroll up and see).
I directed my reply to Fred's question about signals detected: "The question is detecting WHAT ?!!"
If you look at the topic of this thread, you will see this is what we are talking about, not your rants about Theseus.
Scroll up to the first post... read the article from the Department of Justice, and you will see my post is a response to Fred in relation to that article.
My post is not a diversion, and It has nothing to do with you unless you are one of the people who sells equipment described by the Department of Justice.

But I will admit, I did create a diversion earlier on, when I posted my troubles trying to locate my lost can of chili beans
BTW, does that little plastic thingy really work for locating lost chili beans?

Best wishes,
J_P

[IMG]file:///tmp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

[Dell Winders]

This is what you replied to, posted by Fred. I replied to you, and Fred in the same post. Dell

[QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell Winders
Go ahead, PLEASE show the viewers your proof that I am lieing about my field use, and testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight( years.

The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull ./QUOTE]

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

This is what you replied to, posted by Fred. I replied to you, and Fred in the same post. Dell


Originally Posted by Dell Winders
Go ahead, PLEASE show the viewers your proof that I am lieing about my field use, and testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight( years.

Originally posted by Fred
The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull

Ummmm... Dell,
Did you read my post? I didn't claim you are lying. Fred did not claim you are lying either. He is asking what you detected.
Can you show me where either Fred or I called you a liar?

What we asked about is "What" your stuff is detecting...
Here is my quote again:

Originally Posted by J_Player

That's what I see too. I read stories of electronically finding signal lines that show there is a treasure. Then I read the treasure was confirmed by a dowser who says "there's treasure down there", or running a ground probing radar scan along "signal lines" until something buried is found.

Did the dowsing and GPR stuff prove the signal line located a treasure? Or did they serve to show a dowser agrees, and a GPR says there is something buried in the ground somewhere nearby?

Why not forget the dowsing and GPR stuff ....
Simply dig up the "treasure" at a spot marked by "signal lines" and see what you located to "really" confirm it?
If you can do that consistently maybe 7 times out of 10 tries, then I would open my eyes and say "Yup, them signal lines sure do show where the treasure is!".

Don't think we've seen that yet... eh?

Can you see a place where I call anyone a liar? or where I even mention you?
Can you show me the place where Fred calls you a liar?
Take another look....
"Why not forget the dowsing and GPR stuff ....
Simply dig up the "treasure" at a spot marked by "signal lines" and see what you located to "really" confirm it?"
Doesn't that kinda like asking a question?

Ok Dell.... So where's the the place that Fred or I called you a liar?
Weren't those really your own words from your rant against Theseus?
It looks to me like Fred and I just were asking what you detected.


BTW. Does that plastic thingy really work to find chili beans?

Best Wishes,
J_P .

[Dell Winders]

I was very explicit in stating who is lieing inmy post directed to Theseus. I never so much as implied that you, or Fred, were lieing

Fred, included the entire quote in his post, but, Fred's post made no reference to that part of my comment either. He was apparently referring to the latter part of my comment, Right?

Otherwise there was no reason for Fred to even include my quote, if that was not what he was addressing in his reply. Right?

Was Fred addressing you, JP when he posted,

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull

And I replied accordingly to both yours, and Fred's posts with never a suggestion that either of you have lied. I don't know why, or where you are coming up with this crap that I said you lied?

testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight( years.

Originally posted by Fred
The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull

"STUPID IS, AS STUPID DOES"!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

And I replied accordingly to both yours, and Fred's posts with never a suggestion that either of you have lied. I don't know why, or where you are coming up with this crap that I said you lied?

One final time "That's not what we said".
We were talking about what is being detected. We are NOT talking about who is a liar.
Those are your words that you addressed to me and from your rant against Theseus.

You want to know who is calling people liars? I don't claim you are saying Fred or me are liars.
Shall I look to see who you are calling a liar? I see you calling Theseus a liar. It is simple to read.
Isn't this your quote when you answered me by asking who is a liar?

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Which of us do you think is lieing? Dell

Isn't this your quote from a rant against Theseus?

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Theseus, you are caught in your own web of lies about me.

Aren't you the person who is sending accusations of lying out against Theseus?
I don't claim you are calling him a liar, but if you're asking, it looks like you are to me.

Can you tell me how your rants against Theseus have anything to do with our question of what is being detected with an alleged signal line?


PS. About them chili beans... does that plastic thingy really work to find them?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Kev

Suffice it to say, Yahuweh through the law given to Moses stipulated that anyone found in the camp of Israel who employed divination, uncanny power, consulting foretellers of events, etc., were to be cut off in death immediately.

Perhaps I should include this in the forum rules.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Perhaps I should include this in the forum rules.

The forum would die immediately

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Can you tell me how your rants against Theseus have anything to do with our question of what is being detected with an alleged signal line?

Best wishes,
J_P

When he is attacking me, and attempting to change the direction of the thread, he avoids all of our questions concerning Signal Lines; what they are, how they are produced by inanimate objects, and how they were electronically metered.

So, I guess it's a smoke screen or a diversion to avoid answering; "what is being detected with alleged signal lines?"