The so-called PHENOMENON

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Ivconic,
I first thought hung only meant to point out some specific feature which makes gold different and unique like you did. But when I read how he says the gold DNA produces a substance which coats the metal, I realized he is talking about nucleic acid produciing an organic substance. I agree with you, that this is not the case for gold, or any other solid metallic object.

You are correct about gold having other alloying elements. Natural gold often has similar alloying elements as are used in jewery, and in similar concentrations. Gold nuggets can be found with over 90% gold, or under 50%. California gold nuggets are usually in the 90% range. The alloying elements are usually silver and copper, and in lesser amounts, lead, platinum, tellurium, zinc or other metals. I sometimes wonder how much of the alloying elements corrode from a long-time buried piece of gold.

But the idea that gold does not corrode has been proven to be false. When you look at a gold item, You cannot see signs of corrosion over the years, but you can sometimes see a patina, as you described. No doubt, the patina has is caused by alloying elements and abrasion to the surface. However, scientists have discovered that long-time buried gold does corrode. The amount is much less than for copper, but enough gold corrodes to cause gold ions to go into solution with the soil around it amd migrate up to the surface, where it quickly becomes bound with elements at the surface and becomes part of the soil as a gold compound or microscopic metallic gold. Althopugh the process is slow, large amounts of gold are moving in the soil by this method. The corrosion of gold under the ground is not something that would happen easily above the surface, because there are colonies of microorganisms below the surface that are excreting chemicals such as cyanide and suolfur complexes which are capable of dissolving gold and suspending it in the soil as ions. A particular strain of gold-attacking bacteria has caused concerns at Fort Knox about the shrinkage of gold ingots stored below in vaults. (These vaults do not allow the gold bars to touch the soil, yet these bacteria are still corroding gold from the surface of the bars. The particular strain thrives dark,places without much oxygen like underground vaults or in the soil or rock crevices below the soil).

There are other microbes that can actually precipitate metallic gold from the ions that are released into the soil, thus forming new nuggets some distance above the original gold that was below. They have also been observed to deposit new, very pure gold on the surface of existing nuggets. Does this sound hard to believe? If it is true, it means there are gold ions in the soil, and not just a few unmeasurable ions, but enough to make nuggets from.

According to geomicrobiologist Frank Reith, "...the precipitation of gold by micro-organisms, and thus in the biomineralisation of gold, which as recent evidence suggests has led to the formation of some of the world largest gold deposits."
But in addition to micro-organisms precipitating metallic gold, there are microbes that ionize and dissolve gold:
"In soils with high contents of organic matter heterotrophic bacteria and fungi appear to dominate the gold dissolution by excreting amino acids, low molecular weight organic acids (LMWOAs), cyanide or organic sulfur compounds. These molecules were shown to have the ability to dissolve native gold and act as complexing agents for the resulting gold ions."

Wet soil samples were incubated with these microbes, then gold pellets were added to the soil. After 20-30 days of incubation, up to 3 ppm of gold was found in solution, compared to none measurable in the sterilized soil samples with gold pellets.
Now, how do atoms from a gold pellet get into solution? They have to become ionized first! Thus it cannot be true that buried gold does not form ions. We are talking about small amounts (3ppm), But this is the amount measured in some small sample test areas after a month in the ground. The investigations into mine sites from the real world show that this process can happen on a much larger scale, creating nuggets that are very pure where microbes precipitated the gold (98% and better).

Not all gold nuggets are created by microbes. Many are formed with cooling molten rock masses. The gold formed by microbes is derived from these primary gold sources in the ground. But it has been discovered that there are many nuggets which have a rich outer gold shell, and a lower purity gold in the center. In some cases these were nuggets formed by molten gold cooling, then later, microbes deposited a layer of higher purity gold on the top surfaces.
Because it takes some time for these microbes to ionize buried gold metal and put it in solution with the surrounding soil, it tells us that long time buried gold is different than fresh gold that was recently put in the ground. In addition, there are microbes that will attack the other metals alloyed with gold like silver, copper, platinum, etc. According to these studies, some soil is richer in these gold-eating microbes than other soil, so we can expect some soils to show a greater difference between fresh gold and long time buried gold.

In the case of the other microbes that convert the ions back into gold metal, we will find gold nuggets that have ions around them being converted into metallic gold to precipitate and grow the nugget. These new gold nuggets may have similar halo properties as gold that is decomposing. Check here to read this article:
http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/News/Archive/2004/AUSIMMReith.pdf

There are over a million reports on microbes that convert gold to ions, and other microbes that convert gold ions to gold metal in the soil. These include much larger concentrations of gold ions, enough to precipitate gold nuggets. See these reports showing how microbes convert gold to ions, and other microbes that convert gold ions to gold metal in the soil:

Microbes manufacture gold nuggets: http://www.geotimes.org/sept06/NN_Microbes.html
Electron micrographs of microbes moving gold associated with Au(III) reduction:
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/67/7/3275.pdf
Microbes convert dissolved gold into solid metallic gold:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1032376.htm
Report says scientists have ascertained the microbe’s process converts approximately 1% of exposed gold per year.
http://www.sandersresearch.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1171
http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev32_3/amazing.htm

You will find over a million reports on microbes that eat and ionize gold and other metals if you google for "gold microbe": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gold+microbe&btnG=Google+Search&aq= f&oq=&aqi=

There are several gold corroding chemical processes that have been documented in different locations depending on the soil conditions. In soils with high organic content, the microbe strains that dissolve gold are mostly microbes that produce cyanide and organic acids and complexes which react with metallic gold and bind it in the complex. This complex goes into solution in the soil, and moves with the subterranean moisture. Much different microbes that live only on metallic gold surfaces are able to digest the dissolved ions and precipitate them onto the nuggets where they live. Various chemical mechanisms have been documented, but the researchers are still working to unravel the mysteries of how these processes change in different soils. Apparently the ability of microbes to adapt to their environment is an important part of the puzzle.

Here are a few pages about cyanide producing microbes that dissolve gold:
Microscopic plants and fungi Produce cyanide which is thought to have dissolved ancient gold deposits in alluvial sands:
http://books.google.com/books?id=L8Be8rprGgkC&pg=PA495&lpg=PA495&dq=microb e+gold+cyanide&source=web&ots=E9FBKen7LJ&sig=jaLBL d1JAjV9BDA5NOEGPuoR_co#PPA494,M1

30 species of microorganisms including bacteria, yeasts, actinomycetes, fungi and algae were found to accumulate gold from laboratory solutions. This abstract also describes how Pseudomonas cells can be treated to absorb and desorb gold on demand. http://www.springerlink.com/content/u142554485g84k31/

Microbes moving gold in Southern Australia by various chemical methods:
http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/News/Archive/2004/AUSIMMReith.pdf

I just finished reading over an hour of reports on mining exploration where they claim they have been finding gold ions that rise in a column to the surface soil above buried gold ores. According to Dr. Mark Fedikow, exploration geochemist and mineral deposits geologist, approximately 1000 sample sites have been analyzed using the mobile metal ion process (MMI) to locate gold and other mineral deposits since 1993 in over 30 countries. Dr. fedikow says the MMI technique of chemical and electronic analysis results in distinctive anomalies directly over mineralized zones. The MMI sampling has been successful for finding metal ions in the surface soil from Cu, Pb, Zn Cd, Ni, Co, Pd, Au, Ag, Cr, Nb, and Mg. The technology to locate these mineral deposits was developed by an Australian company who measures ions in the parts per billion and sub-parts per billion range in surface soil. The main testing laboratory for the MMI surveys is SGS Group.

See the SGS Group page that explains the movement of ions uward here: http://www.geochem.sgs.com/mmi__theory_geochem
See more web reports about sampling the soil for traces of metal from the vertical movement of metal ions here:
http://geea.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/5/3/201
http://www.diggerresources.com/hdrg.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Jan_7/ai_n8682755/
See more than 250,000 web pages showing reports of gold ions being measured in near-surface soil with MMI techniques here: http://www.google.com/search?q=mmi+gold&hl=en&start=10&sa=N

The point is, even though you don't see much gold corrosion, it is happening, and causing gold ions to move through the soil in a vertical column that can be detected by chemical surveys of the soil. Can it also be detected by an LRL?

Best wishes,
J_P

When I read Zahori's article, found the word "ionization" of water in movement. So, regarding this, I start thinking that around metal buried for long time can exist ionization, the famous halo. The word "ionization" and the famous column also you can see in Mineoro's pages. This is the reason why you put a chair and detection continue in vertical... an experiment made here 30 years ago.

And of course, can be detect by an electronic LRL via secondary effect, maybe a kind of "electric cloud", because when you remove the target, the site "breath". But I think also some gas trapped can produce it.

Regards

[Dell Winders]

Originally Posted by J_Player
The technology to locate these mineral deposits was developed by an Australian company who measures ions in the parts per billion and sub-parts per billion range in surface soil.
Therefore the conclusion is that a column of ions hovering in the air above a gold target is nonsense, and (even if any gold ions present were not bound by the soil) their numbers would be so few as to be undetectable at any distance, let alone several meters.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders
EXCELLENT!

Selective memory at work again?

Nope! You are wrong again. (a habitual trait?) That's NOT my theory, and never what I based any field studies on. I never heard of the Ion theory until I seen it discussed on Geotech by the Scientific pretenders.

I doubt that you have noticed that I have a tendency to lean towards metering concentrations of the earths magnetic field surrounding near surface anomalies. This is what all my DB field experiments, and tests are based on.

It works for me, but I'm just a dumb uneducated country hillbilly who has spent his years gaining practical field experience. Who am I to argue with text book Scientific experts? Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Nope! You are wrong again. (a habitual trait?) That's NOT my theory, and never what I based any field studies on. I never heard of the Ion theory until I seen it discussed on Geotech by the Scientific pretenders.

I doubt that you have noticed that I have a tendency to lean towards detecting concentrations of the earths magnetic field surrounding near surface anomalies. This is what all my DB field experiments, and tests are based on.

It works for me, but I'm just a dumb uneducated country hillbilly who has spent his years gaining practical field experience. Who am I to argue with text book Scientific experts? Dell

And what DB field experiments are these?
Please elucidate us.

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK."

[Dell Winders]

Why should I waste my time on your stupidity? Dell

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Why should I waste my time on your stupidity? Dell

Why did you 3 posts above?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Why should I waste my time on your stupidity? Dell

You seem to have forgotten these simple rules:

• Be polite. Name calling will get you banned quickly.
• Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

Clearly you have no idea of the definition of a double-blind test. That is why you are referring to DB field tests. In other words, randomly digging holes, and employing selective memory to make the results appear better than guessing. Plus confirming detection results with other non-working pseudo-scientific devices, or even (cough) dowsing.

No wonder you don't want to answer the question!

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK."

[Dell Winders]

J Player, despite the intrusion from the peanut gallery, I still enjoyed your excellent, informative article.

Thanks! Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

J Player, despite the intrusion from the peanut gallery, I still enjoyed your excellent, informative article.

Thanks! Dell

Originally Posted by Also from Dell Winders:

This is what all my DB field experiments, and tests are based on.

It works for me, but I'm just a dumb uneducated country hillbilly who has spent his years gaining practical field experience. Who am I to argue with text book Scientific experts? Dell

But is completely unable to provide supporting evidence. Presumably because there isn't any.

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK."

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

J Player, despite the intrusion from the peanut gallery, I still enjoyed your excellent, informative article.

Thanks! Dell

Thank you Dell,

Perhaps you could answer my previous questions that have remained unansered:

Can you tell us the facts about the hundreds of double blind tests you conducted?
To start with, let's focus on a single one of the tests you conducted.

Pick out any one of your hundreds of double blind you want to use for an example:
1. Where was the test conducted?
2. Who was the proctor?
3. What was the protocal of this double blind dowsing test?
4. What was the object of the double blind test? A gold item? a silver item? something else?
5. Was the operator aware of any results before the test was fully completed?
6. What were the results?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Sorry JP, I don't have the time for all the stupid questions and remarks that follow.

You folks have made it quite clear for years that you are not interested in my 40 years of Treasure Hunting field experience, which encompasses field comparisons with most Treasure Hunting & recovery technologies.

I now relegate a small amount of time to viewing this forum, and an occasional comment, and shaking my head and smiling in disbelief at the Skeptic's intellect on this forum.

I do appreciate the time and effort it takes for you to collect and put together internet searches into an interesting single category. Thank you for that.

I've watched in disbelief for several years as you folks have fumbled thru concepts and far out theory's to try to figure out how Frequency Discrimination, LRL's or Dowsing works, only to conclude that it doesn't, and those that are doing what you say can't be done, are liars, frauds, and scam artists. That's not a mentality I can respect.

So no thanks, to your request for me to elaborate. I will say, I use the KISS method, and my most recent blind comparison tests, between a magnetometer, and a pair of Dowsing Rods, demonstrated there is a definite correlation between the magnetic "strength of field" of the earth, and the reaction of a pair of Copper, hand held, Dowsing Rods, to the SOF of buried magnetic, and non-magnetic anomalies.

Idiots will mock, but for those of you with interest, this will give you a start in the direction of learning for your self. Good Luck!

Skeptics, don't bother trying to waste my time with idiotic questions. I won't be replying. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Sorry JP, I don't have the time for all the stupid questions and remarks that follow.

One would wonder then why you bother to post here at all.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

You folks have made it quite clear for years that you are not interested in my 40 years of Treasure Hunting field experience, which encompasses field comparisons with most Treasure Hunting & recovery technologies.

It's a pity that you are unable to learn, from the innumerable amount of criticism you receive, whenever you try to impart your so-called "40 years of Treasure Hunting field experience" to a wider audience. It is not only here on the Geotech website that you try to push your own brand of pseudo-science, but also on other sites, where your comments are less than welcome. This must be one of the few sites where you have not yet been banned. No wonder you still come here for the occasional kicking.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I now relegate a small amount of time to viewing this forum, and an occasional comment, and shaking my head and smiling in disbelief at the Skeptic's intellect on this forum.

Believe me ... there's even more head shaking happening in the skeptics' arena.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I've watched in disbelief for several years as you folks have fumbled thru concepts and far out theory's to try to figure out how Frequency Discrimination, LRL's or Dowsing works, only to conclude that it doesn't, and those that are doing what you say can't be done, are liars, frauds, and scam artists. That's not a mentality I can respect.

You give your MFD "technology" far too much credit. There is little to no figuring out required. The whole idea is just complete crap, and not worth the hot glue that's used in the construction of these worthless devices.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

So no thanks, to your request for me to elaborate. I will say, I use the KISS method, and my most recent blind comparison tests, between a magnetometer, and a pair of Dowsing Rods, demonstrated there is a definite correlation between the magnetic "strength of field" of the earth, and the reaction of a pair of Copper, hand held, Dowsing Rods, to the SOF of buried magnetic, and non-magnetic anomalies.

I guess by blind you mean that you conducted the tests with your eyes shut, as you clearly have no idea what double-blind testing entails.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Idiots will mock, but for those of you with interest, this will give you a start in the direction of learning for your self. Good Luck!

Substitute "those of you with interest" for "gullible suckers with soon-to-be empty wallets" and it starts to make more sense. The only true part of your rant is that the "suckers" will definitely be buying an education.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Skeptics, don't bother trying to waste my time with idiotic questions. I won't be replying. Dell

OK - I won't ask any then, as you seem incapable of answering anyway.
But you might do JP the courtesy of answering the ones he's posted.

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK."

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

You folks have made it quite clear for years that you are not interested in my 40 years of Treasure Hunting field experience, which encompasses field comparisons with most Treasure Hunting & recovery technologies.

Hi Dell,
Actually I tried to make it quite clear that I am interested in your Treasure Hunting field experience. This is why I asked questions about it (see below).

Can you tell us the facts about the hundreds of double blind tests you conducted?
To start with, let's focus on a single one of the tests you conducted.

Pick out any one of your hundreds of double blind you want to use for an example:
1. Where was the test conducted?
2. Who was the proctor?
3. What was the protocal of this double blind dowsing test?
4. What was the object of the double blind test? A gold item? a silver item? something else?
5. Was the operator aware of any results before the test was fully completed?
6. What were the results?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Esteban

When
And of course, can be detect by an electronic LRL via secondary effect, maybe a kind of "electric cloud", because when you remove the target, the site "breath". But I think also some gas trapped can produce it.

Regards

Hi Esteban. As with my lrl, where when i moved the gold coin, it located the old and the new position for 5...10 minutes. My coins was not inside the ground, so it was not a gas trapped that can produced it.
Regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I've conducted hundreds more DB tests on the use of the Rods than you have, that positively proves okantex, estaban, geo, know much more about earth Science than you can possibly imagine.

You are wallowing in your own egotistical stupidity.

Originally posted by J_Player
Can you tell us the facts about the hundreds of double blind tests you conducted?
To start with, let's focus on a single one of the tests you conducted.

Pick out any one of your hundreds of double blind you want to use for an example:
1. Where was the test conducted?
2. Who was the proctor?
3. What was the protocal of this double blind dowsing test?
4. What was the object of the double blind test? A gold item? a silver item? something else?
5. Was the operator aware of any results before the test was fully completed?
6. What were the results?


Originally posted by Dell Winders
...Skeptics, don't bother trying to waste my time with idiotic questions.

Is it an idiotic question? Aren't readers of this forum interested in reading the details of a double blind test that proves dowsing works once and for all?

We have Dell's word that he conducted hundreds of double blind tests on the use of dowsing rods. But when asked to tell us some details of his double blind tests, he says I am wasting his time with idiotic questions.

It seems to me that skeptics, dowsers and the undecided would like to see the details of Dell's hundreds of double blind tests, so they can know once and for all that it works, or it doesn't. Since Dell never lies, we can be assured that Dell did not cheat on the double blind testing methods or results that were determined by the proctor. Yet he refuses to give any information about the double blind tests he conducted.

How can Dell tell people "You are wallowing in your own egotistical stupidity" when he refuses to post his double blind test details so all of us can read the results that were determined by the proctor? The double blind test results would verify the whether there was some egotistical stupidity or not.

Is it possible that Dell did lie?
Is it possible that Dell never conducted any double blind tests?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Is it an idiotic question? Aren't readers of this forum interested in reading the details of a double blind test that proves dowsing works once and for all?

We have Dell's word that he conducted hundreds of double blind tests on the use of dowsing rods. But when asked to tell us some details of his double blind tests, he says I am wasting his time with idiotic questions.

It seems to me that skeptics, dowsers and the undecided would like to see the details of Dell's hundreds of double blind tests, so they can know once and for all that it works, or it doesn't. Since Dell never lies, we can be assured that Dell did not cheat on the double blind testing methods or results that were determined by the proctor. Yet he refuses to give any information about the double blind tests he conducted.

How can Dell tell people "You are wallowing in your own egotistical stupidity" when he refuses to post his double blind test details so all of us can read the results that were determined by the proctor? The double blind test results would verify the whether there was some egotistical stupidity or not.

Is it possible that Dell did lie?
Is it possible that Dell never conducted any double blind tests?


Best wishes,
J_P

Are you sure these questions are not rhetorical?

Dell has no intention of answering any of these, simply because he cannot give a sensible response that doesn't involve name calling.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Are you sure these questions are not rhetorical?

Dell has no intention of answering any of these, simply because he cannot give a sensible response that doesn't involve name calling.

Oh.

I thought Dell has no intention of answering any of these because maybe he lied about conducting over 100 double blind tests on dowsing rods.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

.

[Fred]

I was not skeptic some time ago, and could have bought one of his devices if he had answered simples questions or showed some evidence that they work.But he never answered and gave me the feeling i should not make questions, just blindly believe some incredible stuff.
So maybe i am not stupid enought, but as there is no proof at all that this stuff is real my conclusion is that is is scam.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Sorry JP, I don't have the time for all the stupid questions and remarks that follow.

You folks have made it quite clear for years that you are not interested in my 40 years of Treasure Hunting field experience, which encompasses field comparisons with most Treasure Hunting & recovery technologies.

I now relegate a small amount of time to viewing this forum, and an occasional comment, and shaking my head and smiling in disbelief at the Skeptic's intellect on this forum.

I do appreciate the time and effort it takes for you to collect and put together internet searches into an interesting single category. Thank you for that.

I've watched in disbelief for several years as you folks have fumbled thru concepts and far out theory's to try to figure out how Frequency Discrimination, LRL's or Dowsing works, only to conclude that it doesn't, and those that are doing what you say can't be done, are liars, frauds, and scam artists. That's not a mentality I can respect.

So no thanks, to your request for me to elaborate. I will say, I use the KISS method, and my most recent blind comparison tests, between a magnetometer, and a pair of Dowsing Rods, demonstrated there is a definite correlation between the magnetic "strength of field" of the earth, and the reaction of a pair of Copper, hand held, Dowsing Rods, to the SOF of buried magnetic, and non-magnetic anomalies.

Idiots will mock, but for those of you with interest, this will give you a start in the direction of learning for your self. Good Luck!

Skeptics, don't bother trying to waste my time with idiotic questions. I won't be replying. Dell

Its the one-step...two-step...sidestep show!

Now, watch as some idiot mocks this post!

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Fred

I was not skeptic some time ago, and could have bought one of his devices if he had answered simples questions or showed some evidence that they work.But he never answered and gave me the feeling i should not make questions, just blindly believe some incredible stuff.
So maybe i am not stupid enought, but as there is no proof at all that this stuff is real my conclusion is that is is scam.

Precisely!! I started out the same way, as an open-minded skeptic determined to learn the truth of the matter. I know of no other way to learn the truth except by asking questions of those alleging to know more than myself about a particular subject. Now, many years later - I DO KNOW THE TRUTH! (Of course it did not take me "years" to learn the truth; it happened in about 3 short months.) I would have to give 90% of the credit, for me learning the truth, to none other than Dell Winders. It was his immediate and constant, name-calling, side-stepping of simple questions, and finally his outright lies and BS rhetoric that convinced me his (and other LRL scammers) were selling total snake oil, without a hint of validation from the rational world of science and physics.

Thanks to Dell, for his aid in helping me to learn the truth about him and others just like him. They prey on the gullible and technically-challenged, in an effort to rob some poor fellow out of his ready cash in return for a do-nothing over-priced dowsing contraption that has the same ability to find treasure as throwing lawn darts and random digging.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Oh.

I thought Dell has no intention of answering any of these because maybe he lied about conducting over 100 double blind tests on dowsing rods.

Best wishes,
J_P

Well there is that small point to consider as well.

We know that the DB tests he did with Randi were a dismal failure, and produced results no better than guessing, so the other 100s of tests must either be of the "eyes shut" variety, or were the product of an overactive imagination.

Perhaps "double blind" to Dell means having both eyes shut.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Esteban. As with my lrl, where when i moved the gold coin, it located the old and the new position for 5...10 minutes. My coins was not inside the ground, so it was not a gas trapped that can produced it.
Regards

Maybe deppend of the device you use.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

I was not skeptic some time ago, and could have bought one of his devices if he had answered simples questions or showed some evidence that they work.But he never answered and gave me the feeling i should not make questions, just blindly believe some incredible stuff. So maybe i am not stupid enought, but as there is no proof at all that this stuff is real my conclusion is that is is scam.

Originally posted by Theseus:
Precisely!! I started out the same way, as an open-minded skeptic determined to learn the truth of the matter. I know of no other way to learn the truth except by asking questions of those alleging to know more than myself about a particular subject

Hmmmm....
I also was not skeptical before listening to Dell Winders.
It is beginning to look like Dell created his own skeptics. I wonder how many people come into this forum to ask Dell a question, only to find that Dell will not answer it, and will call them and egotistical idiotic skeptic from Carl's skeptic cult if they don't blindly believe whatever Dell tells them?

Could it be that Dell has created all these skeptics for his own purposes?
But why would Dell want to create skeptics from people who have not yet formed an opinion?

One answer that comes to mind is because he needs a reason to explain his LRL business failure. How can he explain this unless he has someone to point his finger at? It couldn't be Dell's own failure to convince people his gizmoes work that caused him to fail in the LRL business... therefore it must be somebody else who caused people to not buy his junk. So Dell created a new term to explain the mystery of his LRL business failure: "Carl's skeptic cult"

There is only one problem with Dell's explanation....
I am not part of any skeptic cult run by Carl or anyone else. I have never been skeptical about metal ions in the ground where long time buried metals are buried. In fact, I was one of the first people to give a real argument against Carl's notion that long time buried gold is the same as freshly buried gold. I also do not agree with people who think that there is no plausible method to detect long time buried gold from a greater distance than a conventional metal detector can find it.

The cult does not exist.
It is simply a word that was invented by Dell Winders to label anyone who will not blindly believe whatever he says.
It is part of "hillbilly logic" that Dell has adopted:

1. It helps me to sell Omnitron LRLs = Good, rational logic
2. It does not help me to sell Omnitron LRLs = Bad, irrational logic
3. People who will not believe me are skeptics from Carl's skeptic cult

So how did I come to considered part of "Carl's skeptic cult"? How did anyone become part of this cult?
I would speculate that there are more forum members than Fred and me who were not skeptical about what Dell says until after we heard what he said, and learned he was not willing to back up anything he says. He won't even back up his alleged double blind tests he says he performed to prove the rods work. Yet people who do not blindly believe whatever Dell says gets thrown into the skeptic cult, and are the branded as the people who caused Dell's LRL business failure.

I guess they are in Dell's mind.
After all, none of them bought an LRL from Dell, did they?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Well there is that small point to consider as well.

We know that the DB tests he did with Randi were a dismal failure, and produced results no better than guessing, so the other 100s of tests must either be of the "eyes shut" variety, or were the product of an overactive imagination.

Perhaps "double blind" to Dell means having both eyes shut.

So say that these double blind tests... were made a'la Kubrik...

Interesting that Dell like these kind of things...

But I'm sure he will deny that... hope he found some drill instructor like this... when was (cause he was ? I guess... ) called by uncle Sam...

seems to me Dell was good for the gomer pyle role...

Kind regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

Teaching dummies the difference in terminology and definition between a rifle, and a gun.

"This is my rifle, this is my gun.
My rifle is for fighting,
My gun is for fun."

Like teaching dummies the difference between Frequency Discrimination (physics) and Dowsing (meta-Physics) both applications can be metered with hand held Rod(s) Dell