IN CASE YOU MISSED.......

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Sam, you talk ridiculous. Are there no Intelligent Skeptics, or are you just a freak anomaly wallowing in the ignorance your own imaginative pretense? Please, Don't act so stupid. You are giving Skeptics a bad name. Dell

Sam???? I guess you must be hallucinating again, or maybe the voices in your head have returned. You really shouldn't try to make a posting until you've taken all your daily meds.

But more to the point; how exactly does your LRL/MFD detect Iron? Do you have a magnet mounted on the tip of the dowsing rod, or do you merely "think" iron and it moves towards iron? Please tell us all how it works. Then we can all understand the principles of attraction that you are privy to.

[UWLocator]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

How do you random guess the exact locations of 5 plastic bombs hidden and witnessed by Government Scientist,of a person with an LRL using Dowsing (Antenna) Rods, finding the hidden bombs in a city dump in 20 minutes?

Do you reckon it was a scam, or conducted by pseudo scientist? Since you don't allow truth, or fact, to get in the way of your agenda on this forum, and you can never believe you are wrong. I'm sure you won't disappoint me, and will continue to egotistically deny and rationalize all such LRL events as being fraudulent, bogus, and scams, by reasons of your pseudo investigations, and BS Science. Dell

Dell,

When was this? I can not find any record of a test like this taking place. If it did, the report on it has not been released. Do you know Dr. Benson? Did you witness this test?

Rip

[Dell Winders]

Rip, This event took place several years ago, I don't remember the date.

No, I did not personally witness the event. Art , had told me about his experience when I mentioned to him I had unsuccessfully tried to get Florida State representatives to explore this method of remote explosive detection for cargo containers.

Although, Art, and I have done comparative field studies of our methods, as you can see, anything I post on this forum, or references I give, are intentionally attacked as being fraudulent. That is why I seldom mention other folks names on this forum.

I have merely posted an Internet link to a thread that someone else started. It substantiates what I had already been informed of, by someone who says they were there, and to again demonstrate the prejudice, and closed minded mentality of so called Skeptics on this forum.

The sound of negativity is deafening.

No, I don't know Dr. Benson, nor was I present, or involved in the testing in any way. Dell

[UWLocator]

Hi Dell,

Thanks for the honest answers. I think that report would be a very interesting one to read. I may not have gone back far enough looking for it. I will keep trying to locate it.

HH,
Rip

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

No, I did not personally witness the event. Art , had told me about his experience when I mentioned to him I had unsuccessfully tried to get Florida State representatives to explore this method of remote explosive detection for cargo containers.

Although, Art, and I have done comparative field studies of our methods, as you can see, anything I post on this forum, or references I give, are intentionally attacked as being fraudulent. That is why I seldom mention other folks names on this forum.

I have merely posted an Internet link to a thread that someone else started. It substantiates what I had already been informed of, by someone who says they were there, and to again demonstrate the prejudice, and closed minded mentality of so called Skeptics on this forum.

The sound of negativity is deafening.

Hmmm... Errrr... Dell,
From what I am reading, you did not witness it,
The event is something you were informed of, by someone who says they were there... (hearsay)...
Other forum readers can't find any references to this event...
Thererfore dis-believers are branded as negative.

Now let's turn this into something positive:
The whole argument is from people who think they are hearing BS from Dell, and that his LRL gizmoes don't work. So let's put an end to the debates about hearsay and fake BS half-truths. Why not show the whole truth once and for all....

Why not stage a live demonstration of your X-scan finding hidden dollars just like it is depicted to do on your web page. If you do this only one time in front of skeptic witnesses, then you will instantly end all of the arguments. Skeptics will have proof with their own eyes and video cameras to show all the world. This will prove once and for all that you are right and everyone else was wrong. No more arguments about hearsay and half-truths or fake proof.

What have you got to lose?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

You are funny! I would lose laughing at your petty complaints and rants. For me laughter is a positive. Dell

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

You are funny! I would lose laughing at your petty complaints and rants. For me laughter is a positive. Dell

Hmmm...
Should I take that as a "No, I can't do it"?
Is it true that you can't demonstrate a single one of your machines doing what they are depicted to do on your web page?

Best wishes,
J_P

[joecoin]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

You are funny! I would lose laughing at your petty complaints and rants. For me laughter is a positive. Dell

Gee Dell, if you could prove that your devices work, I would buy one, as would many others. Then, since you love laughing so much, you could laugh all the way to the bank.

[Steve in MS]

It takes a great deal of faith to believe Dell's products work, lacking any real evidence to verify their usefulness.
Hmmm, I guess that makes us real bad since we would like to see some kind of proof....
Are we skeptical? You bet, he can't even give a straight answer to straight out questions....oh, I forgot, because this is a "skeptics forum", he's not going to show forth any proof, other than some lame stories from people no one has ever heard of.
His devices can't pass any test, the reason must be because they don't work.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Why not stage a live demonstration of your X-scan finding hidden dollars just like it is depicted to do on your web page. If you do this only one time in front of skeptic witnesses, then you will instantly end all of the arguments. Skeptics will have proof with their own eyes and video cameras to show all the world. This will prove once and for all that you are right and everyone else was wrong. No more arguments about hearsay and half-truths or fake proof.

I wouldn't hold your breath in anticipation.

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hmmm...
Should I take that as a "No, I can't do it"?
Is it true that you can't demonstrate a single one of your machines doing what they are depicted to do on your web page?

Best wishes,
J_P

We'll take that as a "no" then?

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hmmm...
Is it true that you can't demonstrate a single one of your machines doing what they are depicted to do on your web page?

Best wishes,
J_P

After this many years of dancing and dodging the simple questions and requests to demonstrate his treasure-finding contraptions... I'd say there is a really good chance that Dell will NEVER allow himself to get backed into that corner. You, and I, and Dell, and others here know he can't demonstrate how his treasure-finding contraptions actually find treasure, because they don't. But his hope is that some new, unsuspecting fool will come along and fall for his line of BS and lies..... and WA-LA; Dell gets to supplement his Social Security with the cash from someone else's wallet.

And, BINGO, his LRL finds treasure exactly once.

[Fred]

I see many guys with no commercial interests claiming that LRL´s don´t work, and i see one guy selling very expensive devices saying they work.
None of them can prove anything.
Wich one(s) should i Believe

, Fred.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Fred

I see many guys with no commercial interests claiming that LRL´s don´t work, and i see one guy selling very expensive devices saying they work.
None of them can prove anything.
Wich one(s) should i Believe

, Fred.

Those skeptical of dowsing and in particular LRLs, LRL/MFD and related contraptions are not required to prove something does not work; rather it is always up to those making the claims (either real or implied) to provide the proof that backs up their advertising, their claims and to justify asking a price that exceeds one Dollar.

However, each individual who is looking for proof, one way or the other, can simply bend up a piece of junk wire (in an L-shape) and prove for themselves if the concept works or not.

What's that you say? You don't have a fancy box of do-nothing electronics to go along with your bent wire? Well, rest assurred that box of do-nothing electronics, or cheap calculator glued onto your bent wire is adding NOTHING to the dowsing response. Nothing! You will get the same results with or without the do-nothing electronic gadget. I guarantee it.

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Your MFD has the ability to detect iron?

Well ok Dell lets detect IRON using carls test.

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by Fred

I see many guys with no commercial interests claiming that LRL´s don´t work, and i see one guy selling very expensive devices saying they work.
None of them can prove anything.
Wich one(s) should i Believe

, Fred.

It would seem to me that LRL users and makers have the burden of proof to provide a repeatable test that they can pass.
As the old saying goes, "if it's too good to be true"...........
Any product that has been on the market and there is no question of its usefulness need not be tested but upon testing, will definitely show forth that it will work within certain perimeters.
Now if using LRL's involves metaphysics or paranormal activity then no test is necessary since such activities are purely subjective and cannot be tested within the realm of us mortals.

[Carl-NC]

Dell, you stated that your claim is that your MFD was used to "detect" iron. Is this true? Because in the past, you've stated that your MFD cannot "detect" gold. So can your MFD "detect" iron?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Dell, you stated that your claim is that your MFD was used to "detect" iron. Is this true? Because in the past, you've stated that your MFD cannot "detect" gold. So can your MFD "detect" iron?

...Methinks Dell cannot answer this question with yes or no.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

It's a bit of a dilemma for Dell...

If he says his MFD can detect iron, we can test that claim, and it will fail. Because his MFD cannot detect iron.

If he says it cannot detect iron, then his claim that it was used at the Durupinar site to detect iron is false.

But there a way out for Dell...

He can say, "My MFD was used by others in an attempt to detect iron, and they (not me) claim it detected iron." The Truth, but not the Whole Truth.

Still, if Dell wishes to use that event to support his claim that his MFD has done something useful, then that "something" (detecting iron, in this case) should be replicable. It is not because his MFD cannot detect iron. That is objectively testable. The Whole Truth.

All this still does not take into account that it has been shown that the MFD survey results Dell touts were shown, by independent methods, to be bogus. Again, the Whole Truth.

Suppose Minelab or White's or any detector company said, "Our metal detector was used to detect gold nuggets." But it is later found that (a) there really were no gold nuggets that were detected and (b) the detector in question cannot detect gold nuggets at all.

What would people say? Honest, or dishonest?

What if the company responded, "We only claimed our detector was used to detect gold nuggets, not that it actually detected them."

Truth but not Whole Truth.
Honest? Ethical?

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

It's a bit of a dilemma for Dell...

If he says his MFD can detect iron, we can test that claim, and it will fail. Because his MFD cannot detect iron.

If he says it cannot detect iron, then his claim that it was used at the Durupinar site to detect iron is false.

But there a way out for Dell...

He can say, "My MFD was used by others in an attempt to detect iron, and they (not me) claim it detected iron." The Truth, but not the Whole Truth.

Still, if Dell wishes to use that event to support his claim that his MFD has done something useful, then that "something" (detecting iron, in this case) should be replicable. It is not because his MFD cannot detect iron. That is objectively testable. The Whole Truth.

All this still does not take into account that it has been shown that the MFD survey results Dell touts were shown, by independent methods, to be bogus. Again, the Whole Truth.

Suppose Minelab or White's or any detector company said, "Our metal detector was used to detect gold nuggets." But it is later found that (a) there really were no gold nuggets that were detected and (b) the detector in question cannot detect gold nuggets at all.

What would people say? Honest, or dishonest?

What if the company responded, "We only claimed our detector was used to detect gold nuggets, not that it actually detected them."

Truth but not Whole Truth.
Honest? Ethical?

- Carl

It's not my dilemma, Carl.
You are the one twisting the facts, squirming, pretending to be a Scientist and being sneaky with lieing inference & innuendo, and making authoritave comments about events you know less about than I do. You have been trying to put me out of business and prove your merit at my expense for more than a decade. Did you ever consider the reason that I have loyal customers and the reason I have been in this business for 23 years, despite your worst efforts, is that I am honest & truthful in what I say? I am sure you know that, least you would not making every effort to discredit me, and try to make yourself look good.

Unfortunately, your pretend knowledge of events is half imagined, misinterpreted, and totally fraudulent to try to cover up your years of untruths and dis-information. You will notice, I was posting comments by the users, of my products, before the thread was hijacked, and rudely interrupted. You seem to be disputing customer claims, not mine.

Carl, I'll place my honesty, truth, integrity, and ethics against yours for comparison any day. Dell

[joecoin]

Dell,

Why do you believe you have been singled out to be put out of business and to have someone elses' merit proven at your expense? If your products actually work, then you have nothing to fear. It does make me wonder though, why hasn't anyone accused Minelab, Whites, Garrett or Tesoro of making fradulent claims? Why is there no million dollar challenge to manufacturers of non-LRL locators?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Carl, I'll place my honesty, truth, integrity, and ethics against yours for comparison any day. Dell

Hi Dell,
This sounds like a good idea. Why not compare your honesty, truthfulness, integrity, and ethics against Carl's. Do you suppose Carl would be willing to demonstrate a metal detector he built performing as he described it to perform? The Hammerhead PI, for example?

Here is a simple test that will give some good comparative results between you and Carl-NC:

Suppose both you and Carl meet at a large field that is clear of metal trash, then have an observer plant some metal coins in the ground about 6 inches below the surface within an area 50 feet square. Then you and Carl can take turns trying to locate the targets. We will quickly find out if either of you have been honest and truthful when describing what your hand-built detectors can do.

But you can ace Carl out if you have been truthful about your X-SCAN being the best Discrimination you have ever used for locating the combined ingredient of elements contained in paper currency or pharmaceuticals. Just think, After finding the hidden coins, you can show us how you can find hidden dollar bills and bottles of aspirin, while Carl can't! This will really prove who's telling the truth about the detectors they produce. Go show him up Dell!

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Suppose both you and Carl meet at a large field that is clear of metal trash, then have an observer plant some metal coins in the ground about 6 inches below the surface within an area 50 feet square. Then you and Carl can take turns trying to locate the targets. We will quickly find out if either of you have been honest and truthful when describing what your hand-built detectors can do.

As Dell has stated on several occasions, he does not want to meet with Carl, despite numerous invitations. However, based on Dell's claimed abilities at mental dowsing, you would only need to send him a photograph of the site, and he could do the business from the safety of his kitchen table.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

As Dell has stated on several occasions, he does not want to meet with Carl, despite numerous invitations. However, based on Dell's claimed abilities at mental dowsing, you would only need to send him a photograph of the site, and he could do the business from the safety of his kitchen table.

Dell may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to elementary electricity, physics and wave propagation; but he is clever enough not to shoot himself in the foot - twice.

Here is an accounting of what happened at the "last" test he took part in, and I rather imagine he will NEVER get involved in anything like that again.

http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/111805setback.html#i9

Publicly failing a real test would be the end of him. Failure would be proof positive that he had swindled everyone that he's ever sold an LRL/MFD device to in the past 30 years, and a class action suit could bankrupt him or even result in jail time.

No. He is not likely to ever take part in anything that resembles a fair test to validate his current advertising and claims (real or implied).

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Dell may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to elementary electricity, physics and wave propagation; but he is clever enough not to shoot himself in the foot - twice.

Here is an accounting of what happened at the "last" test he took part in, and I rather imagine he will NEVER get involved in anything like that again.

http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/111805setback.html#i9

Publicly failing a real test would be the end of him. Failure would be proof positive that he had swindled everyone that he's ever sold an LRL/MFD device to in the past 30 years, and a class action suit could bankrupt him or even result in jail time.

No. He is not likely to ever take part in anything that resembles a fair test to validate his current advertising and claims (real or implied).

I particularly liked the part about the orangutan and the glue-gun.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I particularly liked the part about the orangutan and the glue-gun.

Yeah, I know. I thought that was classic.

Randi has never been one to beat around the bush.