postLRL circuit for coin at two meter

[Fred]

Thanks for the info! looks like a great reading.
When you say ion dispersed too fast for those experiments, how fast is that? after all we need dispersion if we want to detect them far away
regards,
Fred.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

When you say ion dispersed too fast for those experiments, how fast is that? after all we need dispersion if we want to detect them far away

Dang! If you stand downwind of ions floating in the air from long-time buried gold, maybe you can detect treasure just like you can detect a bear in the woods by standing downwind!

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Dang! If you stand downwind of ions floating in the air from long-time buried gold, maybe you can detect treasure just like you can detect a bear in the woods by standing downwind!

Best wishes,
J_P

...depends of the wind
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Fred

...depends of the wind
Fred.

"The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist waits for it to change, the realist adjusts his sails." William George Ward (1812-1882).

Adjust your sails and go for new adventures through the unknown sea...!

[Dell Winders]

Boy it sure opened my eyes to what has already been done and as Dell says "What has been done, can be done" (thanks Dell). But I do agree with you Fred and your point is well taken now that I understand it. There is a lot out there that still waits to be discovered.

Randy

Shhhh! Don't tell Carl. He falls in the "Pretend" to know it all about Long Range Locators in my other category quote. "The door to understanding & knowledge is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind. He owes me ' and my customers a lot of apology for all the damage he has done, and attempted to do.

And Randy, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time.

Now, With my lowly 6 grade education I am in no position to dispute the superiority of formal intellectual text book education so I am relegated to a common sense approach, based on personal field experience.

Advertising an LRL utilizing IONS as it's method of detection certainly sounds technical. new technology certainly demands high prices, eliminates competition, and makes for great advertising copy.

I know I can't compete on the market with my simple, low cost, homemade devices that essentially do the same thing, and experience the same problems, except Ions aren't incorporated into my detecting method, that I am aware of.

I suspect Damasio, (Mineoro) has been making fools of you, throwing you totally off the common sense track and laughing all along. I can't say I haven't enjoyed
watching it happen.

Naturally, with all the mockery, ridicule, dis-respect, inferences and rants, that long Range locating is bogus, and because I build, and sell such products, I am considered by you to be a fraud, Scam artist, and that I am conning people out of their hard earned money, with your remarks encouraged and supported by the administration, you can understand why I am reluctant to post anything that may be informative.

Within the next couple of weeks I'll try to post some photos of some of the early Electronic, and passive Long Range Locators I have used in the field, from an aircraft, and over water.

So there will be no arguing, mockery, or dis-respect of LRL users, the photo's will be posted on my own Moderated forum.

http://www.treasurehunters.yuku.com

You are welcome to join and participate in serious LRL discussions as long as you leave your egotistical, intellectual superiority, mockery, inferences, and ridicule here where it is accepted.

In return, when I feel like arguing, I'll come over and join you here on Carl's forum.

"WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE" Dell

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Adjust your sails and go for new adventures through the unknown sea...!

But, but.....
Seden tells us the winds to not bring us gold ions that we can measure with an electronic instrument. Should we adjust our methods to obtain a complete working schematic and instructions for a LRL as I described above instead?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

But, but.....
Seden tells us the winds to not bring us gold ions that we can measure with an electronic instrument. Should we adjust our methods to obtain a complete working schematic and instructions for a LRL as I described above instead?

Best wishes,
J_P

The wind carrying heavy ions? Don't know, but sure the area near metal is affected by a kind of electro-potential and is different in magnetic property...

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

The wind carrying heavy ions? Don't know, but sure the area near metal is affected by a kind of electro-potential and is different in magnetic property...

Hi Esteban,
Of course the area near the metal is effected by the electric charge and a magnetic anomaly. What Seden is saying is the ions shown on the Mineoro page moving 7.2 feet into the air where they can be detected has been proven to be false science by scientists who use instruments to find where ions are located. But the part of the Mineoro diagram that shows ions moving up in a column under the ground is proven to be correct science by scientists who measured these ion columns and are using the ion measurements to locate gold deposits at gold mines.

What we see on the Mineoro page for the ions is wrong. We cannot find gold ions in the air above the metal. The ions from the metal travel up in the ground, then when they come close to the surface (10-30cm), they become neutralized with chemicals in the soil so they are no longer ions. Before the metal ions reach the surface, they are converted to stable chemical compounds or metal alloys. So the ions cannot be found above the surface of the ground like the Mineoro science page shows.

What Seden is telling us is we are happy to know that we no longer need to waste time trying to measure gold ions floating in the air. He says any ions in the air will blow away before we can find them to measure. But scientists have also found that the gold ions do not leave the ground and move to the air of the treasure where they can blow away. The gold ions are only under the ground.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

And Randy, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time.

Randy,I sincerely apologize. It should have read:

And J_PLAYER, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time. Dell

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Clondike Clad

how do we build and test this?????????

You dont need to build this device,because its just BFO MD with some aditional circuit to amplify weak signals and aluminium atenna as receptor of frequencies,and force field locator,it locate energy field many meters away,e. g, television,or power sources...Were i get this?In internet.Device is very unstable.
Nothing special,anyway if someone here wants schematic of this toy,i can provid it.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Nothing special,anyway if someone here wants schematic of this toy,i can provid it.

Clondike Clad has been asking to see a schematic and instructions for building a working LRL. He would be very happy if you post the schematic and some instructions to tell him how to build it with the correct parts.

Best wishes, J_P

[Morgan]

To be honest this device acts like mineoro DC2008,not good for us.
Lets concentrate in Pistoldetektor,its much better.

regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Morgan

To be honest this device acts like mineoro DC2008,not good for us.
Lets concentrate in Pistoldetektor,its much better.

You will not post the schematic and instructions for Clondike Clad? Maybe it is not good for us, but Clondike Clad wants to see it. It only takes a few minutes to make the post, and then Clondike Clad will have what he asked for. Why don't you want him to build the many meters aluminum can and power source detector?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

I thought I would not stop laughing when Dell posted his diatribe against me. Dang what a hoot. Thank you sir,you are truly a Southern Gentleman!
Now back to the task at hand of remote detection. I wonder how far you could detect a metallic vein using lighting based signals? Using naturally occuring earth signals would give you the advantage of depth as opposed to radiating a signal into the earth. We're fighting against a signal source instead taking advantage of it. What do you think?

Randy "What hasn't been done,could be done if you wish upon a star long enough" author unknown

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Seden

I wonder how far you could detect a metallic vein using lighting based signals? Using naturally occuring earth signals would give you the advantage of depth as opposed to radiating a signal into the earth. We're fighting against a signal source instead taking advantage of it. What do you think?

Hi Seden,
The best electronic LRLs utilize naturally occurring earth signals to locate metals under the ground with very high precision. I have to ask... How do lighting based signals respond to naturally occurring earth signals? I presume you are referring to some form of light emitted from a detecting instrument to interact with naturally occurring earth signals.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

JP,

No just receiving the lighting VLF signals. I have read a couple patents showing how the impulses increase in amplitutde when you are over an oil deposit or and ore body. There are several different sources of naturally occuring signals that could be used,but you can see how you would have the advantage far as depth goes in using them compared to trying to radiate something down into the earth.
If you go to Google and type in lightning VLF Radiation or natural vlf radiation. Pretty cool stuff,now if we can just make use of it.

Randy

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Seden

No just receiving the lighting VLF signals.

Hi Seden,
I was confused because you said lighting signals when your were referring to lightning signals. Yes, it is pretty cool stuff. The biggest obstacle with using lightning is it's unpredictable. You can't know when or where it will strike to set your instruments. Happily, there are hundreds of thunderstorms happening all over the world in any day. The places where lightning strikes are known to create short term anomalies in the telluric currents as well as other ground properties like local magnetic field and chemical activity of some of the dissolved soil constituents. Most LRL users consider lightning to be a nuisance as well as the storm that brought it. The only good part they seem to like is the time before the storm when the atmospheric charge changes to a favorable level.

My thinking is you may be better to look at some more predictable earth signals such as the magnetic field, the telluric currents, and anomalies in the atmospheric charge. After seeing all the failed attempts to locate treasure by using measuring these earth signals, I would think you would be more successful to look for a different earth signal to measure that is influenced by these strong earth signals, rather than measuring the signals directly.

When we look at the strength of the earth signals, we see that lightning is very powerful in a local area for a very short time. The amount of current from lightning strikes has been estimated to be an average of 2000 continuous amps from all the lightning strikes on the earth, similar to an estimated average of 2000 amps of current slowly leaking through the atmosphere from the ionosphere to find the earth's surface. The atmospheric leakage is perhaps a better signal to look at because it is fairly uniform over local distances and over a a time span (at least in locations where there is no lightning storm). The local static charge anomalies can be attributed to a number of things related to the constituents of the soil, including buried metal. The same can be said of telluric currents and magnetic field. But for lightning, we have to wait until by chance it strikes near where we want to detect a buried target, unless the concept is to look for common VLF influences from random lightning strikes from all over the world. You will note that many of the passive LRLs described in this forum rely on sensing VLF signals. Whether these signals they measure are from the ground and are enhanced by lightning, or are man-made noise that originates on the surface is unclear.

Are you still working on your previous concepts of a multi-detector?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Esteban

"The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist waits for it to change, the realist adjusts his sails." William George Ward (1812-1882).

Adjust your sails and go for new adventures through the unknown sea...!

Hi Esteban,
Have you tried tobuild several narrowband receivers for different frequencies (far away from each other) then to mix all signals to only detect true anomalies?
If this principles works that could be a soution.
regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi Esteban,
Have you tried tobuild several narrowband receivers for different frequencies (far away from each other) then to mix all signals to only detect true anomalies?
If this principles works that could be a soution.
regards,
Fred.

For short distance (few meters) I use a closed aluminium loop. I'll detect good conductive items as silver and copper coins with it, some gold, bronze, etc. If you increases ohms in ferrite, you'll detect more trash, at this time I don't detect aluminium can beer, fo example. This is pure receiver. The loop you see here is part of the project I'll post here as "Treasure detector". If there are a treasure in vecinity of the device, sure you'll detect it, except if is inside closed iron box. But don't know if can detect oxidated iron box, maybe...

You can detect a treasure with a simple cassette recorder used by journalists. You dismantle the magnetic head and mount this loop system instead magnetic head. (Select the input with more gain, because always stereo has one more sensitive input.)

But I'll design one based on dual amplifier, like stereo, with 2 sensors and 2 sensibility controls, for each sensor.

[Fred]

Hi estabn,
Thanks for information.Looks interesting.
Perhaps you could also use tuned loops antennas as like in VLF reception,they have narower bandwith so yo pick up less noise?
Can you say that detection wit such devices is really reliable, or if there is always some erratic noises so you cannot be sure if it is really working 100%.?
Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi estabn,
Thanks for information.Looks interesting.
Perhaps you could also use tuned loops antennas as like in VLF reception,they have narower bandwith so yo pick up less noise?
Can you say that detection wit such devices is really reliable, or if there is always some erratic noises so you cannot be sure if it is really working 100%.?
Regards,
Fred.

Near strong electromagnetics emission like TV, HV lines, etc., this isn't reliable, but in sites more quiet, OK. Treasure "can't scape" of this at 20-30 meters and big silver coin can be detected 3 m. but not sustain the detection for long time, for small items.

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

For short distance (few meters) I use a closed aluminium loop. I'll detect good conductive items as silver and copper coins with it, some gold, bronze, etc. If you increases ohms in ferrite, you'll detect more trash, at this time I don't detect aluminium can beer, fo example. This is pure receiver. The loop you see here is part of the project I'll post here as "Treasure detector". If there are a treasure in vecinity of the device, sure you'll detect it, except if is inside closed iron box. But don't know if can detect oxidated iron box, maybe...

You can detect a treasure with a simple cassette recorder used by journalists. You dismantle the magnetic head and mount this loop system instead magnetic head. (Select the input with more gain, because always stereo has one more sensitive input.)

But I'll design one based on dual amplifier, like stereo, with 2 sensors and 2 sensibility controls, for each sensor.

Hi,
the "core" seems a toroid of ferrite with wounded coil upon it, right ?

From what I understand there's a magnetic coupling from any local to toroid magnetic field line generated by current in aluminium loop.

This is like happens in some aluminium antennas with kind of magnetic transformer for impedance matching there with receiver... aluminium structure is "tuned" to a specific frequency or range of frequencies (but this is not good for broadband antenna things) and then transformer get signals for receive by just induction.

The problem is... what causes the current flow in the aluminium loop in this case?

I mean... if you move the al-turn in the Earth magnetic field... you can get voltage variations due to variation of coupling between the turn and the field.

But if you hold it fixed in one position the only thing that could induce current in it is cause of some external RF emission.

But which RF emission ??? From target ???

I do not understand this.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
the "core" seems a toroid of ferrite with wounded coil upon it, right ?

From what I understand there's a magnetic coupling from any local to toroid magnetic field line generated by current in aluminium loop.

This is like happens in some aluminium antennas with kind of magnetic transformer for impedance matching there with receiver... aluminium structure is "tuned" to a specific frequency or range of frequencies (but this is not good for broadband antenna things) and then transformer get signals for receive by just induction.

The problem is... what causes the current flow in the aluminium loop in this case?

I mean... if you move the al-turn in the Earth magnetic field... you can get voltage variations due to variation of coupling between the turn and the field.

But if you hold it fixed in one position the only thing that could induce current in it is cause of some external RF emission.

But which RF emission ??? From target ???

I do not understand this.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi, also Idon't know exactly what happens, what kind of emission can exist, but in general you move the antenna slowly for to cause a kind of AC variation.

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Hi, also Idon't know exactly what happens, what kind of emission can exist, but in general you move the antenna slowly for to cause a kind of AC variation.

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
so the coil must be moved to detect signal...
if you move the coil slowly you can get signal from a variation of flux related to Earth magnetic field. This is similar to magnetometers when the EMF is sampled or read with continuity to get the logs and then find if there's any anomaly in local intensity.

Maybe the target changes the field gradient in it's vicinity ? But this will give you readings also on e.g. soft iron targets that have great magnetic permeability.

What do you hear on speaker/headphones when it detects a target ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

Quote:
And Randy, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time.
Randy,I sincerely apologize. It should have read:

And J_PLAYER, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time. Dell

Randy, I'm sorry! Your name was not intended. The phone was ringing as I was finishing the post.
There are only a few minutes allowed to edit on this forum, and I caught my mistake too late to do any thing about it.

I apologized a few posts later,but apparently you didn't catch it. You are one of the few responsible people who post on this forum, and the reason I even bother to read the posts. Again, I sincerely apologize to you for my typo error. Dell