ionic metal detector

[hung]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Not true. I've actually gained mass since my marriage.

In a more serious vein, an ion is an atom that is not electrically neutral due to the loss/gain of one or more electrons, usually in their outermost shell.

If an atom ionizes by shedding an electron, it losses an infinitesimally small amount of mass, while if it ionizes by acquiring an excess electron, it gains an infinitesimally small amount of mass.

The loss or gain of those electrons is temporary. The ion will not stay in this energetic state and soon picks up free electrons, or sheds the excess ones, to achieve a lower energy state. This produces radiation (Fraunhoffer radiation) usually in the visible spectrum. In any case, the change in atomic weight is negligible, as is the mass of an electron compared to the atom's nucleus.




I asked the manner in which you were using the term ionic field and you give me a bunch of disconnected factoids from the Mineoro web site. Which none of them has anything to do with detecting gold.

Generated by continuous high tension positive or negative by sharp point. Normally around 800 to 900 volts. Other tensions are feasible.
I can see a hand held box creating this ionizing radiation, but how would buried gold accomplish the same?

- Ionic field by chemical flow in galvanization processes.
Gold is a noble metal. It doesn't take part in a galvanic process, unlike other more active metals like zinc.

- Other ionic fields generators for different purposes, so-called ionizators None of which would be found alongside buried gold.

I asked you for a simple explanation of this gold ionic field that is being detected and you throw mumbo jumbo back at me. Sorry Hung, but it doesn't wash.

If you read their reward statement which was sent to Carl and he made it public, you will find that Damasio mentions the inventors MIGHT disclose all the information of their discovery in the future.

So for now, what's in my post is all you need to know.
Besides what to expect from someone who does not even know how the electromagnetic fields interact in the case of Radionics?
And now hoping to discuss ionic fields detection from long time buried gold?
Naaahhhh....
Guess you better stick with what you know at this time.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by hung

So for now, what's in my post is all you need to know.
Besides what to expect from someone who does not even know how the electromagnetic fields interact in the case of Radionics?
And now hoping to discuss ionic fields detection from long time buried gold?
Naaahhhh....
Guess you better stick with what you know at this time.

Spoken like a true charlatan.

Radionics, "the Voodoo doll of the modern age."

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Spoken like a true charlatan.

Radionics, "the Voodoo doll of the modern age."

For those interested in a complete explanation of the electromagnetic
field interactions in Radionics that Hung thinks so highly of, you can visit:
http://www.radionics.org/
and get a complete explanation of the innerworkings of the LRL equipment
you'd be paying good money for.

let say you have a (loop) coil.
your elctrik source is AC. but you use diod.
so you get one way current at loop which is not costant.
if you can omit opposite current at decays ,and make this at low frequency with powerfull waves,can you collecet positive and negatif ions around loop.
now apply this to earth.
north south fileds lines generally travels in ground with high density of flux than on earth surface.
when it crushes to diamagnetic substances and/or cavities needs to travel around it.
some of them has to be come up to surface and cause to increase of density at that spots(areas)
this will be powerfull source to pull ions on surface of earth than normal consantration flux areas.like magnet pulls iron .it will collect ions.
which ions ?
it is up to whaether and ionic properties of that region.

how is this rudy
maybe I can not give answer for weeks cause of job travel.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

let say you have a (loop) coil.
your elctrik source is AC. but you use diod.
so you get one way current at loop which is not costant.
if you can omit opposite current at decays ,and make this at low frequency with powerfull waves,can you collecet positive and negatif ions around loop.
now apply this to earth.
north south fileds lines generally travels in ground with high density of flux than on earth surface.
when it crushes to diamagnetic substances and/or cavities needs to travel around it.
some of them has to be come up to surface and cause to increase of density at that spots(areas)
this will be powerfull source to pull ions on surface of earth than normal consantration flux areas.like magnet pulls iron .it will collect ions.
which ions ?
it is up to whaether and ionic properties of that region.

how is this rudy
maybe I can not give answer for weeks cause of job travel.

Congratulations.
Altough there's still much more than that, your explanation in one post tells much more than all those made by skeptics so far.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

let say you have a (loop) coil.
your elctrik source is AC. but you use diod.
so you get one way current at loop which is not costant.
if you can omit opposite current at decays ,and make this at low frequency with powerfull waves,can you collecet positive and negatif ions around loop.
now apply this to earth.
north south fileds lines generally travels in ground with high density of flux than on earth surface.
when it crushes to diamagnetic substances and/or cavities needs to travel around it.
some of them has to be come up to surface and cause to increase of density at that spots(areas)
this will be powerfull source to pull ions on surface of earth than normal consantration flux areas.like magnet pulls iron .it will collect ions.
which ions ?
it is up to whaether and ionic properties of that region.

how is this rudy
maybe I can not give answer for weeks cause of job travel.

A scientific impossibility unfortunately.

Gold ions (assuming they are formed at all by the process you described), are not going to move from the body of gold (nugget, jewelry,...) and migrate to the surface.

Hung himself already agreed in a previous post on this thread that it is the "ionic field" and not the ions themselves that are being detected.

Unfortunately, he fails to scietifically explain how an electrostatic field created by stationary ionized atoms, can be detected at distances much greater than several atomic diameters away. His only explanation is "radionics".

I posted a link to the radionics page so everyone can see for themselves. It explains the pricinples in terms of magic and shammanism, with enough technical words sprinkled in to fool some people into thinking it could be real. It is pure manure.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Rudy

A scientific impossibility unfortunately.

Gold ions (assuming they are formed at all by the process you described), are not going to move from the body of gold (nugget, jewelry,...) and migrate to the surface.

Hung himself already agreed in a previous post on this thread that it is the "ionic field" and not the ions themselves that are being detected.

Unfortunately, he fails to scietifically explain how an electrostatic field created by stationary ionized atoms, can be detected at distances much greater than several atomic diameters away. His only explanation is "radionics".

I posted a link to the radionics page so everyone can see for themselves. It explains the pricinples in terms of magic and shammanism, with enough technical words sprinkled in to fool some people into thinking it could be real. It is pure manure.

No,no,no. You mistook what I said before and mixed them up in a bag of cats.

The Mineoro concept has nothing to do with radionics. I started a thread on radionics because of the description of the rangertell's device in their site.
I NEVER said ionic fields could be detected through radionics.

Anyway, your understanding of ions and ionic fields is incorrect as many related subjects which by the way are not vast, in the scientific 'academia' are also incomplete, maybe because of lack of deeper interest, maybe due to a strict and limited way of applying purposes.
I said I don't know what exactly Damasio and Alonso discovered about it which makes this so special and allowed them to build detectors which work beautifuly in this principle. I however have sufficient data which might or might not explain this, but I WILL never discuss this here as I would be contributing to break their scientific secrecy. If , and when, they decide to release the information, then all of this could be discussed.

What unregistered states opens a nice road to try to understand the phenomena, unlike you who blocked your knowledge with outdated concepts which deserves revision. Sorry.

[Esteban]

Here you can found about corrosion, electrostatic, ion mobility and more. (Ok, gold no present corrosion at the simple sight, but creates, as a conductive metal, an electric field around him.)

http://www.counteractrust.com.au/Cou...nstruction.htm


* * * * * * * * *


About mobile ions:

http://www.innovation.wa.gov.au/Inno...bile_metal_ion

http://www.mmigeochem.com/Wildcat310706.pdf


* * * * * * * * *


From http://www.sciencewa.net.au/science_rd.asp?pg=111

"No-one is completely clear on exactly how the metal ions migrate to the surface. However, research and case studies over known ore-bodies have shown that mobile metal ions accumulate in surface soils above mineralization, indicating that the metals are derived from the mineralization source."


* * * * * * * * *


So also gold ions can travel from high depth to the surface:

http://www.acnnewswire.net/press/en/...Relations.html

"Proto today announced that it had employed Mobile Metal Ion (MMI) technology to identify a 1600 metres-long gold anomaly in its first major exploration effort since listing on the ASX last week with the goal of finding the source of high grade surface gold at Tibooburra."

"MMI technology uses chemical processes and extremely sensitive instrumentation to identify ions (or atoms) of minerals which have risen to the land surface from underground mineral deposits."


* * * * * * * * *

I understand that are moments with major fluctuations during this "travel" and with electronic sensitive instrument you can detect in the search area the umbalance. I do it with microvoltmeter with antenna and no doubt (for me) about the existence of a kind of field (as a battery) around buried for long time good conductive metals. NO DOUBT.


* * * * * * * * *

From Zahori's article (translation by Qiaozhi):

[hung]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Here you can found about corrosion, electrostatic, ion mobility and more. (Ok, gold no present corrosion at the simple sight, but creates, as a conductive metal, an electric field around him.)

http://www.counteractrust.com.au/Cou...nstruction.htm


* * * * * * * * *


About mobile ions:

http://www.innovation.wa.gov.au/Inno...bile_metal_ion

http://www.mmigeochem.com/Wildcat310706.pdf


* * * * * * * * *


From http://www.sciencewa.net.au/science_rd.asp?pg=111

"No-one is completely clear on exactly how the metal ions migrate to the surface. However, research and case studies over known ore-bodies have shown that mobile metal ions accumulate in surface soils above mineralization, indicating that the metals are derived from the mineralization source."


* * * * * * * * *


So also gold ions can travel from high depth to the surface:

http://www.acnnewswire.net/press/en/...Relations.html

"Proto today announced that it had employed Mobile Metal Ion (MMI) technology to identify a 1600 metres-long gold anomaly in its first major exploration effort since listing on the ASX last week with the goal of finding the source of high grade surface gold at Tibooburra."

"MMI technology uses chemical processes and extremely sensitive instrumentation to identify ions (or atoms) of minerals which have risen to the land surface from underground mineral deposits."


* * * * * * * * *

I understand that are moments with major fluctuations during this "travel" and with electronic sensitive instrument you can detect in the search area the umbalance. I do it with microvoltmeter with antenna and no doubt (for me) about the existence of a kind of field (as a battery) around buried for long time good conductive metals. NO DOUBT.


* * * * * * * * *

From Zahori's article (translation by Qiaozhi):

Thanks for your concern Esteban, you have a nice and brilliant restless mind, but I should point that Zahori only detects electric fields. Nothing else.

Also when you say NO DOUBT, yes there's no doubt about it, but some hard headed people here will still argue... Do you wanna bet?
Jeeezzz...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

No,no,no. You mistook what I said before and mixed them up in a bag of cats.

The Mineoro concept has nothing to do with radionics. I started a thread on radionics because of the description of the rangertell's device in their site.
I NEVER said ionic fields could be detected through radionics.

Anyway, your understanding of ions and ionic fields is incorrect as many related subjects which by the way are not vast, in the scientific 'academia' are also incomplete, maybe because of lack of deeper interest, maybe due to a strict and limited way of applying purposes.
I said I don't know what exactly Damasio and Alonso discovered about it which makes this so special and allowed them to build detectors which work beautifuly in this principle. I however have sufficient data which might or might not explain this, but I WILL never discuss this here as I would be contributing to break their scientific secrecy. If , and when, they decide to release the information, then all of this could be discussed.

What unregistered states opens a nice road to try to understand the phenomena, unlike you who blocked your knowledge with outdated concepts which deserves revision. Sorry.

Why is this rubbish being discussed in the "Schematics" forum? :confused:
There appears to have been some (ionic?) leakage from the Remote Sensing section of this site.
So far I haven't even seen one schematic.

[Esteban]

Rubbish or not rubbish, remember that Shila start this thread the day 01-05-2006, and you had participation in it since first moment. So, is very later...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Rubbish or not rubbish, remember that Shila start this thread the day 01-05-2006, and you had participation in it since first moment. So, is very later...

That's true. I guess I'm as much to blame then... :o

But it's still in the wrong place.

[Esteban]

Ok, hope the Administrator move this thread.

[Rudy]

Thanks you Esteban for the interesting links you provided. I would love to discuss these further. But as has been noted, the discussion doesn't belong on this board. Maybe it can be moved to the proper board?

[Sean_Goddard]

[quote=hung;39922]Yes. Ionic detection works and the Mineoro detectors do detect the gold ions.
All matter degrades with time and releases ions as they do.

Ions are modified atoms. When the atom loses electrons or gains electrons in this process of electron exchange, it is said to be IONIZED. For ionization to take place, there must be a transfer of energy which results in a change in the internal energy of the atom. Earth acts like this. An atom having more than its normal amount of electrons acquires a negative charge, and is called a NEGATIVE ION. The atom that gives up some of its normal electrons is left with less negative charges than positive charges and is called a POSITIVE ION.




ERM... GOLD DOES NOT DECAY that's why it is found in it's NATURAL state in the ground.. MILLIONS of years old DUH!!. Iron decays (rust) Aluminium decays to become bauxite , Copper, silver, etc, etc. Ah perhaps you are looking for the ADSENCE of gold ions, AH I see it now, another cop out in the genuine explanation, oh well NVM at least I saw through the psuedo scisnce in time. and just HOW do these target substances produce ionised particles anyhow? PLEASE TELL US how these ions are produced, I want the exact process please, becasue I'm having difficulty in working out how it happens.

Go make an ioniser, only a lightning strike NOT the natural CHEMICAL decay of metallic material could produce ions, and as the rain (usually goes with lightning) is supposed to "dampen" 'scuse the pun the ionic field, then this is another inconsistency I think.

[Qiaozhi]

[quote=Sean_Goddard;49104]

Originally Posted by hung

Yes. Ionic detection works and the Mineoro detectors do detect the gold ions.
All matter degrades with time and releases ions as they do.

Ions are modified atoms. When the atom loses electrons or gains electrons in this process of electron exchange, it is said to be IONIZED. For ionization to take place, there must be a transfer of energy which results in a change in the internal energy of the atom. Earth acts like this. An atom having more than its normal amount of electrons acquires a negative charge, and is called a NEGATIVE ION. The atom that gives up some of its normal electrons is left with less negative charges than positive charges and is called a POSITIVE ION.




ERM... GOLD DOES NOT DECAY that's why it is found in it's NATURAL state in the ground.. MILLIONS of years old DUH!!. Iron decays (rust) Aluminium decays to become bauxite , Copper, silver, etc, etc. Ah perhaps you are looking for the ADSENCE of gold ions, AH I see it now, another cop out in the genuine explanation, oh well NVM at least I saw through the psuedo scisnce in time. and just HOW do these target substances produce ionised particles anyhow? PLEASE TELL US how these ions are produced, I want the exact process please, becasue I'm having difficulty in working out how it happens.

Go make an ioniser, only a lightning strike NOT the natural CHEMICAL decay of metallic material could produce ions, and as the rain (usually goes with lightning) is supposed to "dampen" 'scuse the pun the ionic field, then this is another inconsistency I think.

I had the "experience" of testing a Mineoro FG80 last week. Random beeping and nothing else. Totally unusable.

[Sean_Goddard]

Hung quoted some links to an Australian company which claimed to have uncovered a method of gold and mineral location by ionisation. The guys are supposed to be Ph.d's. Interesting to note that even these guys can be persuaded to jump on a bandwagon (and I have noticed that Oz companies like ot blow their own trumpets, no offence meant to any antipodean people present) and I doubt if they obtained their Doctorates the same way the REST of us did .

I know at least one guy who works in geological survey for a mineral location company and they use tried and trusted methods which are documented, and freely available to read. By the way, the guy works for RTZ (Rio Tinto Zinc) and if it was new and worked, they could afford it and would be using it!

[gallileo60]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Spoken like a true charlatan.

Radionics, "the Voodoo doll of the modern age."

So for now, what's in my post is all you need to know.
Besides what to expect from someone who does not even know how the electromagnetic fields interact in the case of Radionics?
And now hoping to discuss ionic fields detection from long time buried gold?
Naaahhhh....
Guess you better stick with what you know at this time.



Boy does that sound like a crock of crap...........Who are you to say that is all someone needs to know.....It is for sure BS..Tom

[Steve in MS]

Scientific secrecy? I was under the impression that LRL are nothing more than expensive dowsing rods, if so then they will always be out of mainstream metal detecting. How big does the gold have to be before it is detected with LRL and doesn't it take undefined skills to properly use the equipment? That is can one person get the same results as another on controlled tests? If not, then they are souped up dowsing rods, get some clothes hangers and you will get same results and a lot cheaper . Once again, how big does the gold have to be before it is detected using LRL? And does it penetrate the ground as good as it would do in the air? I have so many questions and not enough time to be convinced and no, I won't spend any of my money trying them out because I don't believe in them and isn't that what it takes is belief, gets back to the fact they are nothing more than expensive dowsing rods. Maybe one of these days I will get into black magic and be able to operate them.
Sorry, I will remain unconvinced, I will leave all that gold for LRL users.

[gallileo60]

It is complete bull****, anyone who belives this is also a beleiver in witchcraft......Lets have a real double blind placebo test...If not what are you scared of???????Tom Shaw............

Originally Posted by Sean_Goddard

Hung quoted some links to an Australian company which claimed to have uncovered a method of gold and mineral location by ionisation. The guys are supposed to be Ph.d's. Interesting to note that even these guys can be persuaded to jump on a bandwagon (and I have noticed that Oz companies like ot blow their own trumpets, no offence meant to any antipodean people present) and I doubt if they obtained their Doctorates the same way the REST of us did .

I know at least one guy who works in geological survey for a mineral location company and they use tried and trusted methods which are documented, and freely available to read. By the way, the guy works for RTZ (Rio Tinto Zinc) and if it was new and worked, they could afford it and would be using it!

I guess you might be right in the first part....remember Gallipoli, talk about persuaded, should have just let you guys to it, ay cob.

Anyways, what is with Ionic Matal Detector, how different from:
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/iondetector.html

Some of you tried them, presumably bought them, did you not look inside? gets done with everything else here doesn`t it.

[J_Player]

I have never seen any LRL for sale demonstrated to find treasure. But the concept of ions in the ground around long-time buried metals is true.

Researchers discovered years ago in Australia there are certain "gold-eating" microbes in the soil that are able to excrete chemicals like cyanide and sulfur complexes that dissolve gold in trace amounts. Other microbes are able to cause these dissolved gold ions to precipitate on existing granules of gold, sometime forming sizable nuggets far away from the source of the original gold. Geologists look for the presence of some of these gold microbes in order to locate likely areas to explore for gold ore.

Later research by the Australian government discovered that deeply buried mineral deposits that have been in the ground a long time will usually have a column of soil extending vertically above the metal that has traces of metal ions. They discovered these trace ions move upward until they reach the surface, where they quickly become bound with other elements in the soil, and are no longer ions. Because they are no longer ions after reaching the surface, the metal ions don't travel beyond the surface, but are located just beneath the surface directly above an ore deposit.

The Australian company MMI Technology has been collecting soil samples at mine sites all over the world for years in order to find areas where there is a mesurable increase in the metal ion concentration. They use chemical methods to measure parts per billion of gold ions in the soil. They are able to locate ore deposits deep in the ground by finding the locations where there are an increase in metal ions at the surface. This is the exact same testing that is done at the Rio Tinto Zinc mine. The ores that can be found using MMI methods includes gold, copper, zinc, iron and many others.

This is not some weird science that nobody knows about. It has been in use to locate ore deposits in mines for years. There are over a million reports on web pages showing results of this research. Many mines pay over $60,000 to run a MMI survey in order to help locate their ore deposits. What these mines do not pay for is $5000 to buy a LRL to locate the ore deposits and ions that form in a column above the metal.

Check these posts for links that show geologist's and chemist's research into the ions around buried metals:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...3276#post55850
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ge=2#post56059

Best wishes,
J_P