MINERO

[Esteban]

No necessary to be complicate! The first ciclotron was build with cans and other "trash".

http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

[goldfinder]

A simple FET circuit can detect ions at a distance. The basic problem is that the world has ions and ion concentrations everywhere. The ion detector that I built can even detect direction by using a simple pole antenna. And mentioned many times on this thread - gold does not ionize itself. Gold is one of the most stable elements (at least the non-radioactive variety usually found in nature). However, I do concede that gold might be stimulated by some radiation externally and radiate electrons or some other sub-atomic particle. I will have to run some more tests with my jimdandy ion detector to see if that are any stray electrons zipping out from a gold piece. Last time I checked though, there weren't any.

This is a most interesting thread. If guys w/ these Mineoro detectors are finding gold, we have to get one of these detectors an reverse engineer it, cake or no cake!!!

Goldfinder

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Esteban

No necessary to be complicate! The first ciclotron was build with cans and other "trash".

http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

Interesting... the article describes an ion detection chamber, that detects ions that are generated inside the chamber. But it does not detect ions that are outside the chamber, it does not detect ions at a distance, it does not identify the atoms that are ionized, and it does not demonstrate that gold just sitting around generates ions. So it completely fails to answer my request... describe a simple, reproducible experiment that either shows gold produces ions, or that ions can be detected at a distance.

Notice also the comment on recombination... the author states that if the voltage is not high enough, recombination will eliminate the ions before they can reach the electrodes. And this is within the space a few centimeters. Consider the voltage that would be needed to pull in ions from 50 meters away, with minimal recombination!

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by goldfinder

A simple FET circuit can detect ions at a distance.

A simple FET ion detector requires that the ion physically contact the FET gate (as in the article referenced by Esteban). I've not seen a FET-based ion detector that can detect distant ions.

- Carl

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

describe a simple, reproducible experiment that either shows gold produces ions, or that ions can be detected at a distance.
l

This is the 'recipe of the cake'...
Also there are two mistakes in your sentence. You're not going anywhere with it..

[Esteban]

No only gold (buried for many years) produces electrical changes in the vecinity of an electrode (Mineoro's electrode, in this case). Here occurs a disbalance of charges.

Also, the ELECTRICAL variation in a site with buried metal is detectable by a simple FM radio.
You can detect via this methods:

1. radio

2. coil (oscillator)

3. infrared

4. magnetic absorption

5. microvoltmeter

5. association between 2 or 3 the above

Continuous detection (reproducible in the air) maybe is not possible yet, because the involved phenomenon depends of the electrical field produced by the long time buried metals.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

You're not going anywhere with it..

Yes, I already knew that, as there is no where to go with it.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Esteban

No only gold (buried for many years) produces electrical changes in the vecinity of an electrode (Mineoro's electrode, in this case). Here occurs a disbalance of charges.

Gold buried for 100 years is no different than gold buried for 100 seconds.

Also, the ELECTRICAL variation in a site with buried metal is detectable by a simple FM radio. You can detect via this methods:...

Yes, I am well aware that buried metals can be located by induction, infrared, magnetic distortion, and galvanic effects. None of these have anything to do with Mineoro's claims, so I'm not sure why you bring them up. Let's stick to the central claim: ion detection. I'd still like to see an experiment that buried gold produces ions.

Continuous detection (reproducible in the air) maybe is not possible yet, because the involved phenomenon depends of the electrical field produced by the long time buried metals.

Gold buried for 100 years is no different than gold buried for 100 seconds.

- Carl

[goldfinder]

Carl,
I am not sure if this answers some your requirements but the FET electrostatic field detector that I have built will detect electrostatic fields at a distance with no ions getting to the circuit. Tests with the circuit in a closed box would detect me running an acrylic rod over a wool sweater at 10 feet from the circuit.

The FET, as I am sure you know, is a voltage controlled transistor. So ions need no contact with the gate, just an electrostatic field generated by ions.

But as you say, one needs to show that gold has an ionic field around it.

Goldfinder

[Carl-NC]

Detecting an electrostatic field is not the same as detecting individual ions. Lots of things have electric fields, and I agree, strong electric fields can be detected at a distance... I also have a device that will do that. The acrylic rod & wool sweater generate lots and lots of charge, but the charge accumulates on the surfaces, not as free ions.

In small numbers the electric field of ions are way too weak to detect unless they physically contact a collector plate. That's why smoke detectors cannot detect smoke at a distance.

- Carl

[Esteban]

Carl, maybe you forgot, but many times I wrote respect the electric field associated, I don't know is the ionic is part of this electric field... Also don't know is Mineoro can or can't detect the ionic, but can detect the electrical phenomenon produces for conductive metal buried for long time. So is different conductive metal buried for long time than metal "at sight", so the coil of the "normal" metal detector can't measure it: this is the only experimentation you want to do. Comprobation requires go out the labo, walk in inland with sensitive microvoltmeter —or like this— and ask: why the device insist in this point and no in other? Do scientifics experiment in this way? No!!! Because can't reproduce it!!!



If no exist an electric field associated, why I can't "enter" in a site where found two antique-big Jesuitic bronze candelabrum? Not with Mineoro, yes with experimental absorption magnetic device. Was difficult to center the exact point, but unearthed, ends the "perturbation".

[hung]

Hey Esteban, how are you buddy?
You're right on your explanation.
But anyway, what I bring is excellent news.
I just talked to Damasio not long ago and in fact I'll travel to Garopaba to get the new FG 78.1 and to spend two days there.
Fact is that in tests the FG78.1 got the astonishing mark of detecting 1 mm square of gold at 1 meter! It's astounding. Damasio told me that the new model is not prone to weather electrical discharges, in fact they even can help detetion if not sequential.. Also now the user can research at night with no apparent problems.
He and his team are so happy and confident about it that advertising in radios, newspapers and TV around here will start. I'm really proud of them and willing to hand this new detector and take part of this new era in detection.
In fact Mineoro's technology hit a point never imagined before. This is the culmination of all knowledge Damasio and Alonso gathered for almost fifty years.
And although it seems an exaggeration, the scientific comunity is not aware of what they discovered.
Although there are threats of reverse engineering these devices, whoever tries will only waste his time and money (a lot of money by the way to get one). It's not possible to do it. They were made like so. Besides Brazil and USA have a strong oficial anti patent breaking agreement and whoever tries to do it would be comitting crime and infringing the law with serious consequences.
As I said earlier only a fool would think the inventors were not aware of this possibility and keep producing detectors which would be cloned...

Well, that said, as soon as I get the new model I'll be out for a couple of weeks starting a recovery operation of a wreck the PDC detected at sea.
Regards.

[Esteban]

Ok, Hung

I'm optimist in this antenna model. My wish is to try the next days or months, deppending the disponibility of this machine in my hands.

Esetban

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

Hey Esteban, how are you buddy?
You're right on your explanation.
But anyway, what I bring is excellent news.
I just talked to Damasio not long ago and in fact I'll travel to Garopaba to get the new FG 78.1 and to spend two days there.
Fact is that in tests the FG78.1 got the astonishing mark of detecting 1 mm square of gold at 1 meter! It's astounding. Damasio told me that the new model is not prone to weather electrical discharges, in fact they even can help detetion if not sequential.. Also now the user can research at night with no apparent problems.
He and his team are so happy and confident about it that advertising in radios, newspapers and TV around here will start. I'm really proud of them and willing to hand this new detector and take part of this new era in detection.
In fact Mineoro's technology hit a point never imagined before. This is the culmination of all knowledge Damasio and Alonso gathered for almost fifty years.
And although it seems an exaggeration, the scientific comunity is not aware of what they discovered.
Although there are threats of reverse engineering these devices, whoever tries will only waste his time and money (a lot of money by the way to get one). It's not possible to do it. They were made like so. Besides Brazil and USA have a strong oficial anti patent breaking agreement and whoever tries to do it would be comitting crime and infringing the law with serious consequences.
As I said earlier only a fool would think the inventors were not aware of this possibility and keep producing detectors which would be cloned...

Well, that said, as soon as I get the new model I'll be out for a couple of weeks starting a recovery operation of a wreck the PDC detected at sea.
Regards.

Please let us know the results of your test with this new "detector", and post any pictures of your findings. Particularly any 1mm squares of gold that you come across.
We are all interested to hear about this amazing machine that defies the known laws of physics.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by hung

.. Also now the user can research at night with no apparent problems.

I find this interesting that the previous models apparently would not work in the dark. Evidently, ions are not nocturnal.



Thank you for keeping us informed, Jim

[ivconic]

"Gold buried for 100 years is no different than gold buried for 100
seconds."
- Well , yes it is! Second one You wont forget where You put it.

"I'd still like to see an experiment that buried gold produces ions."
-I would not.Not interested.I'd like to see only a gold!

Ha,ha,ha!
People,Your controversy and reviews are never ending story.
If somebody want to beleive in a such a fraud as mineoro, fine by me.
I do only beleive in exact things.
A question for those Mineoro lovers:
Friends,are you a rich people?Having such excell product as
Mineoro would easily provide you a lot of finds in the field,
so I guess that you are very rich and happy people, with full
pockets of gold?
No hard feelings.Best regards and lot of finds!

P.S.
Many thanks to One is still fighting against frauds and save peoples money!

[Esteban]

Hi All

Rich people no need gold detector. Do you ear that —for example— Mr. Bill Gates had for hobby or passion metal detection? THIS IS ONE EXTREME: RICH.

Do you ear that the "beachcombers" are very richs finding few rings, chains, coins, etc.? THIS IS THE OTHER EXTREME: "POOR".

Philosophical question: What I understand about what is rich and what is poor?

* * * I'm searching along the years for treasures to really make rich of me (for to have more time for to dedicate in this passion) * * *

I know that metal detectors don't make the gold, found it, with luck, in the correct place, in the day, with all the best conditions, etc.

Is more pleasant found a copper coin at 5 or 7 meters from your electronic LRL gadget that ALL THE GOLD OF THE WORLD... THIS IS THE GOLD!

[goldfinder]

I see the new MINEORO has a little antenna sticking up on it. Is this for the detection of IONS???

There has also been a claim that there is a special detector of ions or something else sealed in the unit for special detection.

As Carl keep saying, sealed units can't detect free ions. The only exception to this is high energy particles that will ionize gases in the sealed chamber like a geiger counter, and these are not "free ions", and Mineoro does not make any claims to detection of ionizing radiation.

My FET electrostatic meter has antenna also to enhance detection. I'll gladly sell ion field detectors for a lot less than the MINEORO... Just send me and ounce of gold (preferrably Canadian Maple Leaf or USA Double Eagle, I'd even take Krugerands). I'd bury a couple of gold coins in my backyard and water every day and see if I get any ions that I can detect. Meanwhile youall can field test my ion field detector.

It looked like one of the original Mineoro's had a aperature into the unit that possibly had an air pump sucking in air. Quite possibly it has an ion detection chamber inside the unit. Anyone know if this is the case???

Best 2 U who have bought the Mineoro. It certainly looks like a simple system that is horribly over priced.

Goldfinder

[ivconic]

To Esteban....

"Rich people no need gold detector. Do you ear that —for example— Mr. Bill
Gates had for hobby or passion metal detection? THIS IS ONE EXTREME: RICH."

Maybe so.I bet that he never used Mineoro, but some nice IB or PI.

"Do you ear that the "beachcombers" are very richs finding few rings, chains,
coins, etc.? THIS IS THE OTHER EXTREME: "POOR"."

They almost always use PI or IB, in some very poor cases BFO!

"Philosophical question: What I understand about what is rich and what is poor?"

Bill Gates is rich. "Beachcombers" are poor! No philosophy at all!

"I'm searching along the years for treasures to really make rich of me (for to
have more time for to dedicate in this passion) "

I can agree with that. But in the name of those years, try sometimes some
real detector....for example Minelab Relic Hawk or GP 3000 Extreme or Fisher1266
or White's Eagle II or any simmilar and you gonna realize,that you wasted all
those years, dandling with LRL!

"I know that metal detectors don't make the gold, found it, with luck, in the correct
place, in the day, with all the best conditions, etc."

If that so, than you don't need it at all! Esspecially not expensive one!
If you have all elements you mentioned than any detector will work, even Mineoro,
but giving $8000 for non-working toy, only rich man can afford that!

"Is more pleasant found a copper coin at 5 or 7 meters from your electronic LRL gadget
that ALL THE GOLD OF THE WORLD... THIS IS THE GOLD!"

I beleive you that 100%.It is impossible(with LRL's), and when you do it, same
thing as flush royal on high stakes poker in Las Vegas or free key from Fort Knox!
..................

Esteban, my friend....O.K....let's talk no more about it.Everybody has a right
on his own choice and opinion. This is forum, You said yours...I said mine(lab)...
it is O.K.....cool! Regards!

To goldfinger...

Ions are defined as electrically charged atoms. Positively charged ions have a
deficiency of electrons, and negatively charged ions have a surplus of electrons.
An ion can also be classified as an atom or molecule with an electrostatic charge.
Another classification of an ion is a charged particle that is formed when one or
more electrons are taken from or added to a previously neutral atom or molecule.
The Ion Detector can be used to detect the presence, and indicate the relative
amount, of free ions in the air.The Ion Detector, has to be designed to indicate
ion emissions from ion generators high-voltage leakage points, static-electricity
sources,electric-field gradients, and in other situations where the presence
of their relative flux density is required.Telescoping antenna is used as the
pickup.In the presence of an ion field, ions accumulate on the antenna, causing
a minute negative current to flow to the input of front end of some high impendance
amplifier.(i have just invented a hot water!)
From the other hand, an ion generator or ioniser is a device which creates ions and
puts them in to the air. A high negative voltage of around 5000v will make negative
ions and vice versa, high positive voltage will make positive ions.You have to run
that kind of device for several minutes in a very closed space to achieve required
flux density, which provide at least any detection!!!!!(Does bell ringing?)
To study more about method of generating ions look on the .net for Cockroft-Welton
principles.
So if we respect what is claimed here, how the hell anybody can expect to "feel"
ions in the field on long distance, aka long range....longer than a few inches!?
Carl presumed that maybe there are no ions outdor in the field. I can partially
agree. There are ions ouside but in very small concentration, so there are no such
device with witch you can detect them far then a few inches from source(generator)!
So we discover now that funny telescopic antenna is trully used, but in very close,
narrow meaning.Do you really beleive that buried gold,coin or any relics are able
to produce ions in wanted density and remain stabile, waiting you to detect them?
I think that some people confused some very known principles with a pure imagination
and decide to make LRL device which really works! I would call them a naive constructors.
They really beleive in what are they doing.The problem is that those devices are
not working at all, outside of labs!If anybody interested, may check on Nikola Tesla
stuff on the .net, it is related in some elements.

I am not pure theoretical. I've done a lot of experiments long time ago, and realized
that it was a waste of time.
Here is a little toy for you.....(baby mineoro)

[ivconic]

[hung]

Originally Posted by ivconic

I can agree with that. But in the name of those years, try sometimes some
real detector....for example Minelab Relic Hawk or GP 3000 Extreme or Fisher1266
or White's Eagle II or any simmilar and you gonna realize,that you wasted all
those years, dandling with LRL!

I have a Minelab Excalibur which I use on the beach to confirm sites detected by the PDC and for diving use at sea to pick up goods again detected by the 'Mineoros' as you say... Only thing is that I would take months to scan a site when with the Mineoro I do in a matter of hours if not minutes..

but giving $8000 for non-working toy, only rich man can afford that!
There are more reasons to charge this amount than just common comercial ones.. And most important: It works, period.

Ions are defined as electrically charged atoms. Positively charged ions have a
deficiency of electrons, and negatively charged ions have a surplus of electrons.
An ion can also be classified as an atom or molecule with an electrostatic charge.
Another classification of an ion is a charged particle that is formed when one or
They really beleive in what are they doing.The problem is that those devices are
not working at all, outside of labs!If anybody interested, may check on Nikola Tesla
stuff on the .net, it is related in some elements. [/QUOTE]
A molecule is the smallest part of a compound that still retains the characteristic of that compound. It cannot be divided without having another classification..So ions are actually atoms which are modified. So when the negative charged ion encounters its positive counterpart, they crash. As in the words of Damasio, 'they love each other so much as Romeo and Juliet'...

What Damasio and Alonso discovered are beyond common knowledge and will never be discussed.
Is it a complete and finished matter tough? Of course not! Their concept is evolving as any other technology to be more effective each time.

Tesla was a genius ahead of his time and his many conceptions like the earth acting as a capacitor and inventions like wireless electrical transmission and many others were superb and were abandoned only because of small capitalist interests... Yet he was charged as a 'crackpot'..

It's so funny now seeing skeptics citing Tesla.. Oh well...

I am not pure theoretical. I've done a lot of experiments long time ago, and realized
that it was a waste of time.

Maybe it was for you, but not for Mineoro. Upon 50 years of gathering knowledge they are up to something.

As I said before, I won't try to convince anyone if Mineoro detectors work or not.
What for? One believes what they want. This is gonna be an endless discussion and frankly I don't want to take part on that...
The only person I had sucess convincing was myself and that's what's important..

My personal opinion of the skeptics is that they did not suceed in building a working LRL and for that reason they keep bashing LRL builders who are sucessful. But the true hidden reason is to try to reverse engineering them..he,he. 'Why he did and I couldn't?' sort of things...
It's like the dowsing subject. They can't dowse and then what's left? Let's bash who can.
There might be other working LRLs around .. But I know Mineoro is one of then for sure.

Regards.

[Qiaozhi]

This whole subject is an excellent example of a phenomenon known as pathological science. Believers offer fantastic theories that are contrary to experience, and meet any criticism with ad hoc excuses. Such theories can easily be spotted as pathological, when only the believers can reproduce the results, and critics continually fail to duplicate the experiment.

This does not mean that anybody is being purposely dishonest, but simply that people are tricked into believing false results by a lack of understanding. There are many published cases over the years that have attracted a great deal of attention, and sometimes many hundreds of papers have been published supporting the results. Some even lasted as long as 20 years before it was accepted that the results were caused by subjective effects, wishful thinking, or threshold interactions.

Self-deception is a process by which we deceive ourselves into accepting something as true, when in fact it is based on a false idea. This is why scientists insist on clearly defined and controlled double-blind, randomized and repeatable tests. This is the only way to negate the wonderful ability of human beings to deceive themselves into believing things that are not true.

"Our capacity for self-deception has no known limits." - Michael Novak

[Esteban]

Contrary to experience? Wich is your experience? The only you know! Many of us to lack your wisdom, please give us a little! Also, this is contrary to experience, but occurs!:

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Contrary to experience? Wich is your experience? The only you know! Many of us to lack your wisdom, please give us a little! Also, this is contrary to experience, but occurs!:

Your reply unfortunately demonstrates the impossibility of this whole discussion. i.e. The validity or otherwise of the LRL phenomenon is based on people's subjective experiences and not on an objective set of tests. We could argue (sorry - discuss) this all day without reaching an agreement. Both Randi and Carl have money on the table for anyone who can prove that an LRL really works, but consistently nobody takes up the challenge. Why? I believe I know the answer to this question, but perhaps you know of another?

By the way, I hope that wasn't your donkey??

[Esteban]

I assume my "donkeyism", ergo, I can learn! Also, I think you can't discuss seriouslly, since you consider all people don't think like you as sick persons.