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#51
12-26-2010, 01:01 PM
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Here we have the answers from people who actually made the tests... see what they saw:
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Geo and Morgan say Mineoro LRLs will find some short range detection of sparks, but they never see real treasure detection from long range with Mineoro. When Morgan hears reports from people who say they find long range detection... these are fake reports because these people never answer their email to confirm their long range detection. Geo and Morgan confirm Carl-NC's findings to say the Mineoro can detect sparks from some small distance -- but they are not good for finding treasure. Geo and Morgan say the Mineoro will cost BIG money, but will not detect as well as PD for cost of very small money. See Morgan new PD complete project above... maybe $20 US for parts, not more than $5000 like Mineoro.  Best wishes, J_P 
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#52
12-26-2010, 02:21 PM
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Regards 
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Geo
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#53
12-26-2010, 07:36 PM
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How big of treasure do you think Mineoro can locate from 30 meters? Maybe treasure of the size of 30cm diameter? Other question: Do you think you can build a simple radio receiver that will detect treasure with equal results of using Mineoro, or maybe better results from the radio receiver? Best wishes, J_P
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#54
12-26-2010, 09:46 PM
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1. At least at dimentions 20x30cm... 2. I don't know..... there are many parameters. The "(Ion champer)" and the main loop of the pcb are connecting to a simple amplifier and after it the signal go to AVR for compare and for out to the buzzer. Nothing special..... If we will understand what exactly is happening then a good "radio" maybe to give better results. Regards
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Geo
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#55
12-27-2010, 12:13 AM
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MINEORO
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Here we have the original DC 2008 And everyone can see the PD passive receiver inside,SO ,ITS THE SAME.
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#56
12-27-2010, 12:14 AM
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We see several ordinary amplifier functions in the Mineoro, and ordinary receiving loops, also an oscillator and a crystal to drive a digital signal processor on some models. But as far as I know, nobody knows what this signal processor is set to do... maybe not simple comparator. You can see it has a connection to one of the ion chamber conductors. From all appearances, I found nothing in the Mineoro circuitry which could detect treasure from any distance except possibly by using the method that geologists use to probe VLF anomalies for identifying things in the ground. What I see in the Mineoro circuitry does not appear to be optimized for finding treasure by this method, so I suspect a simple radio receiver would perform better than the Mineoro for finding treasure. And a well designed VLF receiver could do much better (maybe C-Scope or other like PD). However, if we knew exactly what the signal processor was doing, then maybe some of the other circuitry would begin to make some sense. Even if the theory of detection was wrong, the electronics might become understandable. Best wishes, J_P
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#57
12-27-2010, 12:39 AM
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We see a passive receiver is only part of the DC 2008. This receiver is not the same as the PD receiver. It operates on different frequency and has a much different ferrite connected along with a large loop, and it has other things connected, such as ion chamber and IR LED circuit, etc. This is not the same as the PD, and we have heard it does not perform the same either. I wonder why Mineoro added the extra parts and circuits in the DC 2008 when we can easily see the PD works better without these extra parts and circuits? Best wishes, J_P
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#58
12-27-2010, 06:36 AM
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Hi Morgan. This magnet receiver (PCB5 of the pd) there is not in the original DC2008. Look it, it has different color, the wires are diferent etc.... i think Esteban with it wanted to hide the original magnet detector from us. Regards
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Geo
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#59
12-27-2010, 06:45 AM
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The processor is doing nothing!!! It takes the signal from amplifiers so to compare it and to give output to the beeper, and also it gives a pulse 10Hz to the middle electrode of the "Ion Champer". Nothing else. I have a schematic, but i want to edit it (to avoid known problems  )For me the way that the Mineoro can find a treasure is the electrostatic and magnetic fields..... Regards
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Geo
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#60
12-27-2010, 06:54 AM
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PD is not Mineoro. PD is from Alonso..... and inside the DC2008 it makes the same work.... simple it works at a different frequency (not very big difference). But i want your opinion about the second small loop that there is on the pcb of every model of Mineoro.
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Geo
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#61
12-27-2010, 08:12 AM
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Already I know there are differences between the DC 2008 and the PD. They cannot make the same work because you and Morgan observed big differences in performance. The PD is from Alonso. But also all the Mineoro locators are from Alonso. He is the designer who makes the Mineoro electronic LRL designs. And we see the design inside the Mineoro has differences from the PD, and the Mineoro does not perform the same as the PD. I could not give an opinion of the second small loop unless I knew how it was connected into the circuit. If I could see a full circuit diagram that shows all of the connections to every coil and ion chamber and IR LEDs and all other components, then I could make an opinion. But maybe my opinion will still not be correct. Some people have said the small loop printed on the board is to act as a passive reflector in an antenna element. This does not seem likely to me, but I would have a better idea if I could see the full schematic. My question remains: Why did the Mineoro include the extra circuits when we can see the very poor performance... not like the improved performance of the PD when these extra circuits and parts are not present? Best wishes, J_P
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#62
12-27-2010, 08:31 AM
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When you look at the circuit for the Mineoro locators that use a digital signal processor, we see this processor is in the same location where you might put a comparator instead. This does not mean the processor is performing a comparator function. This is only a guess. How do we know the processor is not performing other signal processing of the input signals? Have you seen the processor code? Is it not possible it could be performing filter functions and other signal conditioning functions in order to produce an output? Even if the processor is performing only a comparator function, this is not the same as doing nothing. You have also said the signal processor produces a 10 Hz pulse to send to the gold plate inside the ion chamber. Do you know why this plate is pulsed, and not held at a constant voltage? Best wishes, J_P
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#63
12-27-2010, 08:56 AM
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The owner of Mineoro was Damasio (i don't know now). Alonso was the designer and maybe to has a small percentage..... Now. Why to include the extra circuits when we can see the very poor performance.... it is simple!!!. First they like to show a complex machine and maybe as Esteban wrote many times they maybe like to prevent a "double" detector.... ionic and magnetic. Maybe on afternoon to post here the schematic of FG79 , so i hope that you will understand better than me about this..... Regards
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Geo
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#64
12-27-2010, 10:29 AM
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Hello Geo,
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Damasio was the developer of the Mineoro design such as the ionic chamber, loop and circuitry concept with inovations he already had achieved in the 60's and also employed in his 2box machines, besides knowing the physics about it. Alonso contributed with the electronics of the receiver and its inovative aproach. They found a way to 'blend' their things into a unique one. Both met in late 50's and started the partnership trading ideas and experiences about the phenomena. You are also mistaken on some statements. It's not a 'simple' amplifier as you say. There is much more to it than you can imagine and yes, there are ions involved exactly as they claim in the explanations that you still don't seem to comprehend. I have always liked the Mineoros as you know. So recently I decided to 'create' my own machine to add to our LRL system here. I am in the final stages of designing a Mineoro type LRL to my taste. It will feature state of the art electronics and components, a multi processor and a laser among other features, keeping the same traditional box shape. I might show a picture of it in the future.
__________________
"Should exist injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll show up to debunker the big mouths"
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#65
12-27-2010, 11:28 AM
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#66
12-27-2010, 12:25 PM
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Today i will attach a schematic of the FG79, so you will see that i have right. I don't know what is happening at the new models, but i believe that it is one of the same!!! I will wait with big interesting for your LRL design. Regards
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Geo
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#67
12-27-2010, 02:06 PM
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On the thread Mineoro210-part2 you can find the schematic of the Mineoro FG79 without the prices of the components. I will give a full schematic with components after some days when i will collect all them ( i have the most of them but not all)
Regards
__________________
Geo
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#68
12-27-2010, 03:05 PM
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i think differences of functions, ineer pd vs min are only of range,and apply, pd function to nearby, mineoro cant do easly, pd is by liitle deep less distance, mineoro is for veins great o further emission of ions
yo pienso que si hay diferencia de funciones, entre el pd y el mineoro, y son solo en distinto rango y aplicacion, el pd funciona a lo cercas y a menos profundidad, por tener menos potencia es mas estable, el mineoro funciona a lo lejos y es mas sensible pero mas erratico, eso aclara porque a lo cercas es de dificil manejo, el mineoro funciona captando iones y a la vez las cargas electrostaticas, la pd es como si enfocara, y el mineoro dispersa su radio de captacion, debido a el loop grande, el pequeno coil es como un reflector parabolico o resonante, el mineoro es mas seleccionador o mas clasificador que la pd, pero el mineoro necesita buenas condiciones de atmosfera y tipo apropiado de suelo, actua bien en la arena, por no ser esta compacta, pero en la arena no se encuentran grandes piezas y su oxidacion es diferente, se necesita un determinado modelo de mineoro para cada campo a explorar eso es lo que yo entiendo es solo teoria
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#69
12-27-2010, 03:21 PM
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There is no danger for you. This laser box will be used in South America, far away from the places where you will go treasure hunting. You will never see the laser or any of the treasure this laser does not find. You will only hear fantastic stories told in the forum. So no problem for you. Best wishes, J_P
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#70
12-27-2010, 03:24 PM
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pd is an pinpoint md & rf rx medium range, this due to omega central point detection, mineoro isnt precise pinpoint but open field detector pd how normal disk detector vs mineoro how an two box capabilites for example
so isnt easy find an coin whit an two box an md of disk can find and big treasure and coins too
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#71
12-27-2010, 03:39 PM
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The part of hung's story we can believe is that Damasio contributed to the design of the Mineoro locators. We see the Alonso design in the center, but with extra circuits and loops added. We also see the performance is not very good as the PD to show 2 meter detection. Only on very lucky days the Mineoro will become equal to the PD. Even owners of Mineoro in Brazil have been seen to sell their locators because they say they prefer the better performance of their dowsing rods. You will see most of the people who say they get good performance from Mineoro are close to the factory. When you look more distance away from the factory testing grounds, then you hear worse reports of the performance. Now that Damasio is no longer making the design of the Mineoro locators, Alonso is the designer. Do you think the new models may have some big changes in the circuit designs? Will we see parts of the circuit removed in the newer Mineoro LRLs? Best wishes, J_P
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#72
12-27-2010, 03:54 PM
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Hi J_P. I don't wait new technologies inside the Mineoro. Always Alonso liked to play with with electric and magnetic fields. I believe that he will stay in this technology who he knows very good. I believe that Alonso is more honest and this is the reason that he is not rich!!!! Regards
__________________
Geo
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#73
12-27-2010, 04:11 PM
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You may be correct when you say the reason to include the extra circuits to show a complex machine. The extra circuits may not find treasure, but they appear to do something. To begin, look at the circuit for the small loop. If this is drawn correctly, then it is intended to be a passive element. This loop is located behind the ion chamber in a location you might expect a dish to be placed behind an antenna. However, we do not have any sign of RF connected to the dish or to the antenna. We see the brass rod end of the ion chamber is connected through two series capacitors of unknown values to the un-amplified signal from the large loop after it has been coupled in a transformer. Without component values, it is hard to say how much if any signal exists on the brass rod. It appears to be weak if it exists at all. The small loop appears to be intended as a passive reflector, even though it may not function as one (my opinion). It seems reminiscent of the parabolic dish attached to the Ivconic static detector. In the case of the Ivconic detector, the dish was grounded, or connected to the opposite polarity as the antenna... Not exactly a passive reflector, and not intended to operate as an RF component. When you look at the signal processor, we can wonder why to use a signal processor instead of simple transistors? If it is only comparing the signal strength, a simple comparator would do the job. But they did not use a simple comparator. They went to the trouble to program a PIC. Why? Is it possible this signal processor is doing more than simply comparing the input strength and also sending out a 10 Hz signal? Have you figured out why they are sending that 10 Hz signal yet? Why they didn't simply leave the gold plate charged at full supply voltage? Best wishes, J_P
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#74
12-27-2010, 04:17 PM
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I wish you success, you already explained you were working on this a few times and years ago.I know that for you, it must be a very complicated process.
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#75
12-27-2010, 05:59 PM
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The Mineoro page shows the new FG-90 "launching". They say the detection system is: Biotronic Classifier System - BCS When we look at the pictures, we see the same ion chamber as older models. Only differences we can see are different control dials on front and different name plate. Does this mean Biotronic classifier system (BCS) is different from the ion chamber we see above in the schematic? Maybe... The FG-90 costs $12,580 USD. So we know there must be something really good inside. And we know it is not dowsing... because it says so on the page. And we still read that it works with ionic principles as they explain in their theory pages. It looks like the Mineoro marketing has not changed. Maybe the "Biotronic Classifier System" is only new words to make the FG-90 sound like it is new and improved. Best wishes, J_P
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