H3Tec discussion

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by hung

'Nothing to do with electrons'... Really?? He,he,he,..
Next you will also say the outdated standard model will explain everything without even considering torsion, right?

I quit.
Some of us are like animals that were kept in captivity almost the whole life, and then when the gate is open, they don't know what to do.


PS. Meanwhile over TNET Ike has put Carl's back against the wall with a VERY interesting challenge. Much more than Carl's own BS.
Let's see how it develops.

Bye Geoskepthic.

You keep throwing mud at the wall, hoping something will stick. Well, it isn't sticking. Maybe it is because of that new neutrino the standard model never predicted?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

PS. Meanwhile over TNET Ike has put Carl's back against the wall with a VERY interesting challenge. Much more than Carl's own BS.
Let's see how it develops.

Bye Geoskepthic.

Well ... I've just been over to TNET to take a look at Carl getting his "back against the wall".
What an absolute zoo it is over there! After about 5 to 10 minutes I couldn't stand it anymore. I've never seem so much BS from so many dowsing and LRL bigots.
Carl posted a list of companies that do not sell LRLs, and it totally confused the resident female (and the funny farm boys). For some reason they decided the list contained all the companies that do sell LRLs. Considering the fact that none of the usual suspects were in the list, including H3Tec (got to include that to stay on topic ) they were all totally bemused and started running around like headless chickens.
In all the BS posts I read there was no evidence that Carl was up against the wall, only an enormous amount of mutual back slapping and psuedo-scientific claptrap.

[Art3811]

A few months ago I bought some orthopedic shoes. I went out to the car in the rain and drove off. The first stop sign my foot slipped on the brake pedal. This happened to me a few times before I reached home. These shoes have a hard plastic area in the arch. So if I wanted to wear these comfortable shoes I would have to change how I braked my car. I found that I would have to move my heel about one inch backward and my whole foot about another 3 inches to the left. I stared to think about it and try to move my foot to the exact spot where I wanted it. I have been practicing this for two months and over time I did not have to think much about doing it.
Today a car slide though a stop sign in the snow and I had to hit the brakes fast..No thinking just a natural reaction. Gentlemen..that action was a “Trained Ideomotor” Response….Art

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Carl posted a list of companies that do not sell LRLs, and it totally confused the resident female (and the funny farm boys).

Great idea Qiaozhi. We need a resident female, specially a pretty one with brains. Even if she works at H3Tec (got to include that to stay on topic ). Someone like ...

[Kevco]

When I see these pseudo-scientific terms to explain dowsing, it seems so much like trying to make up new reasons, to replace the old reasons that got debunked. Electromagnetics (EM), electrons, neutrinos, etc - everything that most dowsers don't understand, but throw those terms around

When I hear about EM as the reason, someone could shield the targets within a mu-metal (magnetic) shield, and an electrostatic field shield, to guarantee it's not EM as the cause. But EM is not the explanation for it.

As I posted elsewhere here, I *did* get into dowsing for a short time. But here's the kicker that caused me to drop the whole thing.... I had heard about map dowsing, which I had done. I also heard about "mentally" dowsing for individual people, using maps. Well I tried it, followed their route across the city (a large metro area), and went downstairs to the door, when I saw they were just two blocks from my house. They drove up in seconds. When he got to the door, I confirmed which of the many possible routes he could have taken, and he took the same route I followed him on the map. Although he could have taken the short route from work, he took a longer route, over different bridges, and through different suburbs. But how can this be based on true laws of physics? NO! Why can I track one person, in a community of 1/2 million people? It's not a physical law causing it.

I had hoped it was some undiscovered physical law, as my major was physics - but finding specific humans fails that test. And for other reasons (more related to "religion"), I dropped it. It seemed very occultic, so I dropped it cold turkey - ~25 years ago. But at this point, I will end this post, so not to drag religion into it.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Kevco

When I see these pseudo-scientific terms to explain dowsing, it seems so much like trying to make up new reasons, to replace the old reasons that got debunked. Electromagnetics (EM), electrons, neutrinos, etc - everything that most dowsers don't understand, but throw those terms around

When I hear about EM as the reason, someone could shield the targets within a mu-metal (magnetic) shield, and an electrostatic field shield, to guarantee it's not EM as the cause. But EM is not the explanation for it.

As I posted elsewhere here, I *did* get into dowsing for a short time. But here's the kicker that caused me to drop the whole thing.... I had heard about map dowsing, which I had done. I also heard about "mentally" dowsing for individual people, using maps. Well I tried it, followed their route across the city (a large metro area), and went downstairs to the door, when I saw they were just two blocks from my house. They drove up in seconds. When he got to the door, I confirmed which of the many possible routes he could have taken, and he took the same route I followed him on the map. Although he could have taken the short route from work, he took a longer route, over different bridges, and through different suburbs. But how can this be based on true laws of physics? NO! Why can I track one person, in a community of 1/2 million people? It's not a physical law causing it.

I had hoped it was some undiscovered physical law, as my major was physics - but finding specific humans fails that test. And for other reasons (more related to "religion"), I dropped it. It seemed very occultic, so I dropped it cold turkey - ~25 years ago. But at this point, I will end this post, so not to drag religion into it.

Well, I have to say, you did the right thing.

Although Hung would never believe it [what a skeptic ] all confirmed skeptics have actually tried dowsing for themselves. That is of course how they came to the conclusion that it cannot be used to locate anything except gravity or (in the case of dowsing rod salesmen) the contents of other people's wallets. But it must be emphasized that their use in the latter context does not involve the ideomotor effect. The people who remain beguiled by the ideomotor effect, and who are compelled to promote this medieval practice, lack any real scientific background. Some are self-confessed hillbillys with nothing more than a limited education, whereas others are pseudo-scientists who are impressed by scientific sounding words such as "Aharanov-Bohm magnetic dipole".

The same goes for ouija boards. These are fascinating items, and can scare the hell out of you if you don't understand the ideomotor effect. This (like the popular Victorian parlour trick of table tipping) is a dramatic way to experience this strange phenomenon. But once you've played around with the ouija board for a while it soon becomes clear that questions are only answered correctly if at least one person in the group knows the answer. A good test is to ask a question that only someone outside the group knows. The ouija board will get the answer wrong. Then include this person in the group, and the correct answer is revealed. The ouija board has absolutely nothing to do with contacting the spirit world, but everything to do with the ideomotor effect. It's a really eerie experience, but perfectly explainable by science. If you ask the question, "What are next week's lottery numbers?", then it doesn't matter who is in the group. There is no treasure to be discovered with a ouija board, and the same goes for a dowsing rod (or even the H3Tec device - to stay on topic).

To Hung - don't think that the skeptics have dismissed your nonsense ideas out of hand. They've all been there, seen it, and done it. Then dismissed it as nonsense.

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK"

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Art3811[FONT=Calibri

A few months ago I bought some orthopedic shoes. I went out to the car in the rain and drove off. The first stop sign my foot slipped on the brake pedal. This happened to me a few times before I reached home. These shoes have a hard plastic area in the arch. So if I wanted to wear these comfortable shoes I would have to change how I braked my car. I found that I would have to move my heel about one inch backward and my whole foot about another 3 inches to the left. I stared to think about it and try to move my foot to the exact spot where I wanted it. I have been practicing this for two months and over time I did not have to think much about doing it. [/FONT]
Today a car slide though a stop sign in the snow and I had to hit the brakes fast..No thinking just a natural reaction. Gentlemen..that action was a “Trained Ideomotor” Response….Art

Ummmm....
Got any H3Tec news Art?

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Well ... I've just been over to TNET to take a look at Carl getting his "back against the wall".
What an absolute zoo it is over there! After about 5 to 10 minutes I couldn't stand it anymore. I've never seem so much BS from so many dowsing and LRL bigots.
Carl posted a list of companies that do not sell LRLs, and it totally confused the resident female (and the funny farm boys). For some reason they decided the list contained all the companies that do sell LRLs. Considering the fact that none of the usual suspects were in the list, including H3Tec (got to include that to stay on topic ) they were all totally bemused and started running around like headless chickens.
In all the BS posts I read there was no evidence that Carl was up against the wall, only an enormous amount of mutual back slapping and psuedo-scientific claptrap.

Hmmmm... Is Tnet their secret bunker?
If so, it appears they debunkered and came here for awhile.
I guess they are rebunkered back at Tnet again. But a few of them keep leaking out.

Best wishes,
J_P

[dummywhacker]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Well ... I've just been over to TNET to take a look at Carl getting his "back against the wall".
What an absolute zoo it is over there! After about 5 to 10 minutes I couldn't stand it anymore. I've never seem so much BS from so many dowsing and LRL bigots.
Carl posted a list of companies that do not sell LRLs, and it totally confused the resident female (and the funny farm boys). For some reason they decided the list contained all the companies that do sell LRLs. Considering the fact that none of the usual suspects were in the list, including H3Tec (got to include that to stay on topic ) they were all totally bemused and started running around like headless chickens.
In all the BS posts I read there was no evidence that Carl was up against the wall, only an enormous amount of mutual back slapping and psuedo-scientific claptrap.

Maybe you should go back and read it again. The question was asked "Who sells LRL's ?" and Carl replied with a list of all the well known MD manufacturers. If anybody "decided" that the list contained companies that do sell LRL's it was Carl...as he was the one that posted it.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by J_Player;

Hmmmm... Is Tnet their secret bunker?
If so, it appears they debunkered and came here for awhile.
I guess they are rebunkered back at Tnet again. But a few of them keep leaking out.

Best wishes,
J_P

Yup... they're leaking out for sure....

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dave J.]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Great idea Qiaozhi. We need a resident female, specially a pretty one with brains. Even if she works at H3Tec (got to include that to stay on topic ). Someone like ...

My rod dowsed door #1.

I asked if she works for H3tec expecting it to bounce 3 times, but it said H27tec.

The H3tec gal would be that "beauty" the other guy guy posted, I'm sure any LRL can confirm that. And it's not dowsing for sure, because a dowse won't even register on that one.

--Dave J.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by dummywhacker

Maybe you should go back and read it again. The question was asked "Who sells LRL's ?" and Carl replied with a list of all the well known MD manufacturers. If anybody "decided" that the list contained companies that do sell LRL's it was Carl...as he was the one that posted it.

I understood Carl's post perfectly well on first reading, but then I'm not encumbered by a worthless medieval belief system. It was obvious at first reading because ..... (wait for it) ... none of the companies listed actually manufacture or sell LRLs!
Was it just too difficult for you to figure out? The post was designed to confuse the technically challenged and unwary; and it worked beautifully.

By the way, I have no intention of re-visiting the LRL Funny Farm Forum on TNET. It was too nauseas the last time.

[Dave J.]

Originally Posted by Dave J.

Art, you need a crash course on what it means to be a "dowsing claimant".

I'll tell you a Monday evening bedtime story. You decide whether it's fact or fiction. Lose some sleep over it if that's what it takes.

* * * * * * *

Growing up, "Jerry" .......[etc, etc].... At least his LRL buddies were still there to keep him pumped up.

And that's the story of how "Jerry" became a "dowsing claimant".

* * * * * * *

--Dave J.

Sorry, Art failed to report his verdict. So as not to keep anyone in suspense, I'll tell y'all.

The saga of "Jerry" was a composite of what I learned from LRL'ers and dowsers on the Tnet LRL forum in 2002 when I was very active on that forum.

Anyone can go to the present Tnet LRL forum and discover the same things about the current crop of forum denizens (including some old timers from 2002). Human nature hasn't changed much over the last 8 years.

A few practicing dowsers have discovered the same outcome as I describe in the "saga of Jerry" although their explanation is often a bit different from what I offered in Art's bedtime story about "Jerry". I offer it here for completeness and because I respect this other explanation also.

Dowsing is a gift which you did not earn, and if you use it for any purpose other than as a gift to others, the gift will be taken away from you.

It is for this reason that among dowsers who seem to actually have some useful abilities, many refuse to accept monetary payment for their services. They'll usually accept a dinner invitation.

Mr. Christensen, are you listening?

--Dave J.

[Dave J.]

Guys swinging dowsing rods with some electrical stuff attached, and occasionally someone swinging a plain vanilla dowsing rod, will report a gold "find".

Ya gotta understand this is not like a "find" with a metal detector. With a metal detector, until it's in your hand and you can see it and anyone else standing there skeptic or otherwise can also see it, it is not a find. It's a "false signal" of some sort until proven otherwise. Now and then a liar beeperist will post a photo of something they claim they found, when in fact it's something they bought at the coin shop (or whatever), but even then, we all understand what they're claiming, the only problem is that the guy is a liar.

I've been in the beep biz for 30 years and seen a lot of alleged finds, with my BS detector turned on and tuned up. And here's my assessment: of the finds you see posted on the forums the overwhelming majority are for real as the poster described them, no need for BS. I would say this even with regard to Minelab owners, whom that manufacturer tries to jack up into BS braggart heaven. Most keep a reasonably level head despite that.

Dowsing/LRLing plays by a different set of rules. I'll introduce that with a bit of my personal family history.

My grandfather on my mother's side was a small-time rancher in the Northwest, doing a fairly decent job of trying to take care of his family as best he could. Then one summer he got heat stroke, and he wasn't the same after that. He got a little too much religion, a little too much gold fever, and he took up dowsing. He became a semi-nomadic desert rat-- not that any of those things are bad things in and of themselves, but they represented a change for him, which made things difficult for his family who had to figure out how to survive without him.

I occasionally went prospecting with him. He used Spanish needles for minerals, and any forked stick that was handy on site for water. "There's platinum in that mountain 20 miles yonder." "There's a vein of gold 25 feet below us that carries 1,000 ounces in values." "There's an underground stream here 5 feet down with a flow of 20 gallons per minute."

I never saw him "ground truth" anything. And since he virtually never did that, he had no opportunity find out whether or not he had dowsing ability, or to hone the skill if he had any ability in the first place.

He was a good grandfather, bless his soul, but the poor guy couldn't dowse worth a darn and he didn't even know it! My brothers who saw more of him than I did opine that maybe he had just a smidgin of ability once in a while, but his time would have been much more profitably spent with a pick and shovel than with the Spanish needles. All of us brothers have successfully dowsed with coat hangers, so it's not like we reject dowsing in principle. It's just that Gramps couldn't do it. I would submit that subconsciously he knew he couldn't do it, and that's why shallow dowses didn't happen if there was a pick and shovel in sight.

I can "find" tons of gold an hour from now, and I don't even need an LRL to do it. And it's not even speculation: it's been ground truthed for over 100 years. But there's this problem: it's disseminated in half a cubic mile of rock. Since I can do this "find" without any apparatus at all, I'm sure someone with an LRL can do the same.... although perhaps I overestimate? There could be a way to screw this up with an alabi.

Then there's the "I found a rock with micron gold" LRL'er story. The guy gets a hit on a rock while dowsing for gold. Sees no visible gold. Therefore it must be micron gold. In his own mind he ground truthed it with the LRL, but LRL's can point at anything, only laboratory methods can ground truth micron gold.

Meanwhile, I can find real micron gold just as well as any LRL'er, probably better than most, without any need for an LRL. How? I pick up an igneous rock. Most of 'em contain trace quantities of gold. But if I was in Florida with nary an igneous rock in sight, all I'd have to do is buy a supersize soda on the beach, pour it out, and go refill it with sea water. That gold's gonna be even smaller than micron, perfect for an NMR nano-ionic LRL! And it doesn't even have to work! Just aim it at the soda cup!

That's how LRL finds/locates are done, as defined by the LRL crowd themselves. You don't have to take my word for it, read their posts and learn it from them just like I did! Or as I say "Read the advertisement!"

* * * * * *

Meanwhile back at the ranch, any LRL'er who actually bothers to dig stuff, will eventually find stuff. Usually with a metal detector, which oddly enough is their favorite whipping boy in arguments. Maybe the find was enabled by a successful dowse. The key to understanding what I just said, is that a successful dowse is (as a minimum: I prefer higher standards) one which has been independently verified through another more reliable method-- for instance actually seeing the target object. Anything else is just something interesting that happened and without independent verification nobody knows what it means.

--Dave J.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I understood Carl's post perfectly well on first reading, but then I'm not encumbered by a worthless medieval belief system. It was obvious at first reading because ..... (wait for it) ... none of the companies listed actually manufacture or sell LRLs!
Was it just too difficult for you to figure out? The post was designed to confuse the technically challenged and unwary; and it worked beautifully.

By the way, I have no intention of re-visiting the LRL Funny Farm Forum on TNET. It was too nauseas the last time.

Originally Posted by hung

Hey idiot ozzministrator, is this the way you treat a newbie here?
Do you think you are talking to someone at home?

My reply was perfectly reasonable and to the point.
Carl's post was designed to confuse the denizens of the TNET LRL Forum, and it achieved that goal admirably. Any skeptic reading that post could understand it clearly, not being hampered by an erroneous belief system.

Which part of the post did you not understand? Perhaps we could assist you in your re-education.

[dummywhacker]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I understood Carl's post perfectly well on first reading, but then I'm not encumbered by a worthless medieval belief system. It was obvious at first reading because ..... (wait for it) ... none of the companies listed actually manufacture or sell LRLs!
Was it just too difficult for you to figure out? The post was designed to confuse the technically challenged and unwary; and it worked beautifully.

By the way, I have no intention of re-visiting the LRL Funny Farm Forum on TNET. It was too nauseas the last time.

If that was what it was truly intended as, that just confirms what several have thought at the real forum (TNET)...that disinformation is posted in order to cause discord and havoc, which is a typical propaganda scenario. Personally, I'm betting that you simply can't figure it out. You are correct, then. it worked beautifully.

Have a good day.

[Rudy]

Here are a couple of tips designed to help the H3Tec Tricorder users get more from their instrument.

Tip #1
After reading the patent and reviewing the PCB schematic, it is clear that the signal received from the target goes through an amplifier and several other electronic processes. However, this amplified and processed signal is not used for any particular purpose, including determining the orientation of the needle establishing the signal line.

Since the instrument is powered by a couple of 9V batteries, you can almost double the battery life by disconnecting the power from the receiver section of the electronics, as it serves no useful purpose (it is not involved in determining needle orientation).

Some users may be reluctant to open the instrument and use an Xacto knife to cut the PCB trace carrying power to the receive electronics. I can understand your reluctance, given the over $1000 price you paid and what it would do to the warranty. But, don't despair! Read on to Tip #2, which you should be able to implement without fear.

Tip #2
Since we've already determined that the receive electronics are not in any way engaged in orienting the needle, the astute Treasure Hunter will start to wonder what is the purpose in creating, amplifying and filtering a signal to stimulate the target when the "reflected" signal is not at all used to provide a directional indication. This is the Aha! moment. The realization that you don't need to provide electric power to the transmit section either!

Well, that makes it real neat. Simply removing the two 9V batteries accomplishes Tip #1 and Tip #2 and their benefits, without risking the loss of warranty. Now we are cooking! Think of all the money you'll save over the years by not buying 9V batteries.

Tip #3
As an already existing H3Tec customer, this tip may already be too late for you, but it might help others so I'll include it here.

Since we've already removed the batteries after realizing that the instrument performance is in no way affected by powering down the electronics, the only remaining functional subsystem is the bearing pointing needle, which is free to move as you hold the instrument and point to the presumed signal line. Can you feel another Aha!! moment coming?

Yes indeed! You don't need to pay over $1000 for a bearing mounted pointing needle when you can make your own for less than $20 in parts. Best of all, you'll be able to replicate the performance obtained from the much more expensive H3Tec.

[hobbes_lives]

You're killing me Rudy!

[J_Player]

.

[Carl-NC]

The H3 device I looked at had an extremely expensive esoteric LiFePO4 12.8V rechargeable battery pack. Actually, it's nothing special, only about $28.

The prices I've heard range from around $5,000 to well over $15,000. Plus yearly fees. Plus turbo mod upgrades.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by J_Player

.

Hi J_P

does Mr. Stick working in European continent or we need some additional adapter?

I need 7 lefthanded and 3 righthanded. Hope you can give me mass-discount?

How about pay by Paypal?

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

The prices I've heard range from around $5,000 to well over $15,000. Plus yearly fees. Plus turbo mod upgrades.

Einstein was right about human stupidity.If there is a limit to it, we have still to find it.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

The H3 device I looked at had an extremely expensive esoteric LiFePO4 12.8V rechargeable battery pack. Actually, it's nothing special, only about $28.

The prices I've heard range from around $5,000 to well over $15,000. Plus yearly fees. Plus turbo mod upgrades.

Like everything else in life, the more expensive it is the better it must be right?

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Like everything else in life, the more expensive it is the better it must be right?

Of course it is. What else would it be?

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Of course it is. What else would it be?

Must be that software that allows you to program the machine to select specific elemental isotopes.

I just realized this. This instrument is still incredibly cheap compared to the buildings full of centrifuges being used in Iran to enrich Uranium. Iran has squandered a lot of time and money. They could have been enriching Uranium with the H3Tec ability to detect specific isotopes.