Construct LRL with World Receiver

[Funfinder]

For not losing fun with those LRL-stuff there has to be a way to build such stuff with already other devices - like with calculator and AM-Radio used as simple BFO.

Bought now a very small World-Receiver (Radio AM, 9 shortwave bands, FM). Very high sensitivity, costs 15 Euro and now transforming it into some kind of LRL - Bingo!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

For not losing fun with those LRL-stuff there has to be a way to build such stuff with already other devices - like with calculator and AM-Radio used as simple BFO.

Bought now a very small World-Receiver (Radio AM, 9 shortwave bands, FM). Very high sensitivity, costs 15 Euro and now transforming it into some kind of LRL - Bingo!

Try using a portable FM radio that has discrete components and coils, not a single chip FM radio. Tune to a quiet spot maybe slightly above the FM broadcast band.
Try circuit below if you can't find an antique FM transistor radio.
I heard rumors these work for your purpose.
Best wishes,
J_P

[Götz von Berlichingen]

How could a BFO work as LRL ?
BFO MD's are well known for their very short Range.
Is there any serious Hypothesis or Theory about BFO LRL ?
If you want a working LRL, you should at least understand how it works.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Götz von Berlichingen

How could a BFO work as LRL ?
BFO MD's are well known for their very short Range.
Is there any serious Hypothesis or Theory about BFO LRL ?
If you want a working LRL, you should at least understand how it works.

According to LRL enthusiasts, BFO and other VLF coil TX/RX arrangements can detect at long range by utilizing the RF propagation properties of the transmission from the coil. According to reports made by a number of forum members, these coils are not detecting eddy currents, but a strange "phenomenon" that they claim develops in the ground of long-time buried metals.

Nobody seems to understand how it works. We only read theories and reports of long range detection. The explanations of how it works seem to be lacking in credibility and proof. That is to say that if anyone was to build an identical circuit to detect at long range, it would not produce results of long range detection that can be verified by scientific testing. The reports of long range detection working are only stories we hear that seem to fail when others try to reproduce them.

"Is there any serious Hypothesis or Theory about BFO LRL "?

For BFO long range detectors, I have read no forum post to suggest a serious theory of long range detecting.* But if you search through the forum posts you will find many theories that do not seem serious. They are not serious because these theories rely on the existence of unknown physical properties that are not recognized or published by any serious engineer, physicist, or scientist. A search in the forum posts will also show there are no concise instructions to build a complete working circuit that will detect long range consistently with the theories that have been offered.

As an example, one of the non-serious theories that long range BFO detection relies on is the theory that gold which has been buried a long time sends gold ions into the air in a column above the ground where the gold is buried. The theory states these gold ions will remain suspended in this column of air that can reach as high as 7 feet above the gold that is buried. And these suspended gold ions are detectable at long range using a BFO design operating at VLF frequencies. In the case of buried gold, there are LRL designs that are claimed to have sensors that can determine the gold is buried below the gold ions in the air that it is sensing.

If you think there are no gold ions floating in a column in the air, or if you think any gold ions that hypothetically arrived in the air would blow away with a slight wind, this will not convince an LRL enthusiast that the ions are not there. Their reason to believe is because they claim they have found long range detection. It is not because they sampled the air and measured the concentration of gold ions to be higher in the air above the buried gold. To contrast what some LRL enthusiasts claim about hovering gold ions in the air, there are many tests made by scientists and technicians with calibrated equipment that confirms there are no anomalies of metal ions hovering in the air above buried metals. And this is easy for anyone to test and confirm with a drift tube.

The theory of gold ions floating in a column air above buried gold is only one of many non-serious theories offered by LRL enthusiasts. A good thing Funfinder is doing is to look at these theories, and try to build some working circuits that can be easily tested to see if the claims can be confirmed with working circuitry that is understood by anyone with the electronic knowledge to build the circuits. Unfortunately, he has scattered his efforts in many LRL directions, without completing a single design to a point that long range tests are ready. Maybe we will see progress in some of the earlier projects he started, rather than more projects starting and then becoming set aside when even more new ideas come to mind.

There are some long range detectors that really do work. You can find many of these in the Geophysics forum, and a couple of them in this forum. But these working long range detectors are mostly used for geological mapping, not for treasure hunting. I doubt most of them would be useful for finding a buried treasure item unless they were modified to optimize them to find small metal targets.


* The exception for BFO detecting long range is a 2-box detector, which is claimed to locate large metal objects up to 25 feet depending on the soil.
You can buy these from White's, Fisher Garret and a number of other metal detector manufacturers, and they are guaranteed to work.
In this case, the theory of long range detection depends on the coil arrangement and the BFO method to detect eddy currents.
This is long range compared to an average conventional VLF or PI metal detector.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Your definition of LRL is different from mine.
Until now, i understood LRL exactly as the Wikipedia Article .
2-Box and Magnetometers would be something different... and how about a PI with extra large Coil ?
Thank you for the detailed Answer, i guess i learned something from you.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Götz von Berlichingen

Your definition of LRL is different from mine.
Until now, i understood LRL exactly as the Wikipedia Article .
2-Box and Magnetometers would be something different... and how about a PI with extra large Coil ?
Thank you for the detailed Answer, i guess i learned something from you.

I have never defined geologists tools or 2-box detectors as LRLs. I only say they are capable of locating buried metals at long range. (This is in comparison to the range that a standard metal detector can locate metals).
And I say BFO uses known theory of operation for up to 25 feet detection distance (eddy current detection).

This is the Remote sensing forum. Not the LRL forum.
Remote Sensing forum was opened for both kinds of devices. See the sticky note at the top of this forum:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance.
It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.
This forum is for the open discussion of either method.

There is nothing new to learn.
The large pi coils, magnetometers, VLF survey receivers and other equipment used to actually detect known physical properties of the earth's subsurface are all included for this forum, with the hope that someone will develop modifications that make these methods more suitable for treasure hunting.

The other kind of remote sensing (LRL) is also permitted in this forum for people who want to experiment to see if they can make them suitable for treasure hunting. LRLs are exactly the same as what you read on the Wikipedia page.
I consider any device that can locate buried metals at a longer distance than a standard conventional hand-held VLF or PI metal detector to be capable of long range locating. This includes most of the geologists subsurface survey tools, 2-box, and large PI coils. These and other tools are commonly used to locate objects as well as earth composition below the surface at long range (in comparison to a hand-held metal detector). The less scientific tools that people have labeled LRL have not been proven to locate buried metal at long range, nor do I believe they are long locators until I can actually see them perform this function and convince me they can locate at long range. If you believe these LRL devices really are long range locators, you are free to believe as you choose.


Best wishes,
J_P