GOLD ion detector...

[GOLDENSKULL]

Hi to all friends,

we read some posts and see some devices that introduce in this site to remote sensing a treasure under ground...!!!

But these are my questions:

1- is this true, that buried gold (or other metals) emit negative ions that comes up to the surface of ground ?

2- just old buried metals emit these negative ions or new buried metals also emit these negative ions ?

3- really, can we detect these emitted negative ions by one negative ion detector device or not?

4- what we can do to increase these device sensitivity to detect these negative ions from more distance and more depth ?

Please, let's we answer to these question carefully to reach to the best results...

I am waiting for your good and perfect answers...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by GOLDENSKULL

Hi to all friends,

we read some posts and see some devices that introduce in this site to remote sensing a treasure under ground...!!!

But these are my questions:

1- is this true, that buried gold (or other metals) emit negative ions that comes up to the surface of ground ?

2- just old buried metals emit these negative ions or new buried metals also emit these negative ions ?

3- really, can we detect these emitted negative ions by one negative ion detector device or not?

4- what we can do to increase these device sensitivity to detect these negative ions from more distance and more depth ?

Please, let's we answer to these question carefully to reach to the best results...

I am waiting for your good and perfect answers...

Here are my answers to your questions:

1 - No - it's not true.
2 - Neither.
3 - See answer 1.
4 - See answer 1.

There is no scientific evidence to suggest that longtime buried objects release ions into the atmosphere, therefore it is not possible to detect them. Some people claim that there is a PHENOMENON (or anomaly) surrounding longtime buried objects, which is detectable at long range using certain devices tuned to the edge of sensitivity. This has yet to be confirmed by a repeatable experiment under double-blind test conditions.

[GOLDENSKULL]

Hi,

Thanks Qiaozhi,

Is there any other idea from anybody... ?

[Max]

Originally Posted by GOLDENSKULL

Hi to all friends,

we read some posts and see some devices that introduce in this site to remote sensing a treasure under ground...!!!

But these are my questions:

1- is this true, that buried gold (or other metals) emit negative ions that comes up to the surface of ground ?

2- just old buried metals emit these negative ions or new buried metals also emit these negative ions ?

3- really, can we detect these emitted negative ions by one negative ion detector device or not?

4- what we can do to increase these device sensitivity to detect these negative ions from more distance and more depth ?

Please, let's we answer to these question carefully to reach to the best results...

I am waiting for your good and perfect answers...

1. not that way: the buried metal emits POSITIVE ions, cause lose electrons and losing negative charge atoms become positive ions

2. both old and "new" metals emit POSITIVE ions if right conditions exist

3. you need a positive ion sniffer: if you use a "squid" device you can do that from several meters far away, but device have huge price

4. easy to put in words, but practice is another thing: you need to cool the sniffer "squid" device at very low temperature, this way it's less sensitive to noise and can make more accurate detection, that means you can increase detection range also

Squid use superconducting material... and are hard to find and build without proper technology. Here you see in the picture are old sensors now obsolete , but you can make an idea of what's needed...

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Here are my answers to your questions:

1 - No - it's not true.
2 - Neither.
3 - See answer 1.
4 - See answer 1.

There is no scientific evidence to suggest that longtime buried objects release ions into the atmosphere, therefore it is not possible to detect them. Some people claim that there is a PHENOMENON (or anomaly) surrounding longtime buried objects, which is detectable at long range using certain devices tuned to the edge of sensitivity. This has yet to be confirmed by a repeatable experiment under double-blind test conditions.

There is no credible evidence to suggest ions from longtime buried objects float above the ground in the atmosphere.

In that regard, Qiaozhi's answers are correct.

There are those who are experimenting with high-gain amplifier devices, tuned to a precarious edge between indicating something and not indicating something, but from everything we can see here - there is no consistency to the indications, temperature and humidity fluctuations create havoc with the indications and as was stated above, no formal monitored testing over blind targets has been done. (At least the test data and protocol have not been published here or on any other known sites.)

Ion migration above the ground, is a tantalizing concept that is appealing and attractive to many, but so far is just not provable. Thus, building devices to measure ion migration above the ground is a waste of time and energy until it can be proven there are ions to detect.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by GOLDENSKULL

But these are my questions:

1- is this true, that buried gold (or other metals) emit negative ions that comes up to the surface of ground ?
No. They emit positive ions caused by chemical corrosion.

2- just old buried metals emit these negative ions or new buried metals also emit these negative ions ?
The positive ions are released when a metal corrodes. A very small trace amount of corrosion happens to copper when you hold it in your hand, and the acids in your skin ionize some metal from the surface. A lot more corrosion can happen when metals are left in the ground for some period of time.

3- really, can we detect these emitted negative ions by one negative ion detector device or not?
I have seen no evidence of any negative ion detector locating any buried metal.

4- what we can do to increase these device sensitivity to detect these negative ions from more distance and more depth ?
You can remove all electricity from the earth except the circuits working in the detector.

Max is correct. Buried gold releases positive ions. Gold ions in the soil have a +3 charge. Scientists have discovered that long-time buried gold does corrode. The amount is much less than for copper, but enough gold corrodes and emits gold ions to go into solution with the soil around it and migrate up to the surface, where it quickly becomes bound with elements at the surface and becomes part of the soil as a gold compound or microscopic metallic gold. Although the process is slow, large amounts of gold are moving in the soil by this method. The corrosion of gold under the ground is not something that would happen easily above the surface, because there are colonies of microorganisms below the surface that secrete chemicals such as cyanide and sulfur complexes which are capable of dissolving gold and suspending it in the soil as ions. A particular strain of gold-attacking bacteria thrives dark places without much oxygen like in the soil or rock crevices below the soil. These have been discovered as deep as 2 miles below the surface in gold mines, as well as near the surface of the ground.

There are other microbes that can actually precipitate metallic gold from the ions that are released into the soil, thus forming new nuggets some distance above the original gold that was below. They have also been observed to deposit new, very pure gold on the surface of existing nuggets, leaving a high purity surface on a lesser purity center. Does this sound hard to believe? If it is true, it means there are gold ions in the soil, and not just a few unmeasurable ions, but enough to make nuggets from.

According to geomicrobiologist Frank Reith, "...the precipitation of gold by micro-organisms, and thus in the biomineralisation of gold, which as recent evidence suggests has led to the formation of some of the world largest gold deposits."
But in addition to micro-organisms precipitating metallic gold, there are microbes that ionize and dissolve gold:
"In soils with high contents of organic matter heterotrophic bacteria and fungi appear to dominate the gold dissolution by excreting amino acids, low molecular weight organic acids (LMWOAs), cyanide or organic sulfur compounds. These molecules were shown to have the ability to dissolve native gold and act as complexing agents for the resulting gold ions."

Wet soil samples were incubated with these microbes, then gold pellets were added to the soil. After 20-30 days of incubation, up to 3 ppm of gold was found in solution, compared to none measurable in the sterilized soil samples with gold pellets.
Now, how do atoms from a gold pellet get into solution? They have to become ionized first! Thus it cannot be true that buried gold does not form ions. We are talking about small amounts (3ppm), But this is the amount measured in some small sample test areas after a month in the ground. The investigations into mine sites from the real world show that this process can happen on a much larger scale, creating nuggets that are very pure where microbes precipitated the gold (98% and better).

Not all gold nuggets are created by microbes. Many are formed with cooling molten rock masses. The gold formed by microbes is derived from these primary gold sources in the ground. But it has been discovered that there are many nuggets which have a rich outer gold shell, and a lower purity gold in the center. In some cases these were nuggets formed by molten gold cooling, then later, microbes deposited a layer of higher purity gold on the top surfaces.
Because it takes some time for these microbes to ionize buried gold metal and put it in solution with the surrounding soil, it tells us that long time buried gold is different than fresh gold that was recently put in the ground. In addition, there are microbes that will attack the other metals alloyed with gold like silver, copper, platinum, etc. According to these studies, some soil is richer in these gold-eating microbes than other soil, so we can expect some soils to show a greater difference between fresh gold and long time buried gold.

In the case of the other microbes that convert the ions back into gold metal, we will find gold nuggets that have ions around them being converted into metallic gold to precipitate and grow the nugget. These new gold nuggets may have similar halo properties as gold that is decomposing. Check here to read this article:
http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/New...USIMMReith.pdf

There are over a million reports on microbes that convert gold to ions, and other microbes that convert gold ions to gold metal in the soil. These include much larger concentrations of gold ions, enough to precipitate gold nuggets. See these reports showing how microbes convert gold to ions, and other microbes that convert gold ions to gold metal in the soil:

Microbes manufacture gold nuggets: http://www.geotimes.org/sept06/NN_Microbes.html
Electron micrographs of microbes moving gold associated with Au(III) reduction:
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/67/7/3275.pdf
Microbes convert dissolved gold into solid metallic gold:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1032376.htm
Report says scientists have ascertained the microbeʼs process converts approximately 1% of exposed gold per year.
http://www.sandersresearch.com/index...k=view&id=1171
http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev32_3/amazing.htm

You will find over a million reports on microbes that eat and ionize gold and other metals if you google for "gold microbe": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...gle+Search&aq= f&oq=&aqi=

There are several gold corroding chemical processes that have been documented in different locations depending on the soil conditions. In soils with high organic content, the microbe strains that dissolve gold are mostly microbes that produce cyanide and organic acids and complexes which react with metallic gold and bind it in the complex. This complex goes into solution in the soil, and moves with the subterranean moisture. Much different microbes that live only on metallic gold surfaces are able to digest the dissolved ions and precipitate them onto the nuggets where they live. Various chemical mechanisms have been documented, but the researchers are still working to unravel the mysteries of how these processes change in different soils. Apparently the ability of microbes to adapt to their environment is an important part of the puzzle.

Here are a few pages about cyanide producing microbes that dissolve gold:
Microscopic plants and fungi Produce cyanide which is thought to have dissolved ancient gold deposits in alluvial sands:
http://books.google.com/books?id=L8B...A495&dq=microbe+gold+cyanide&source=web&ots=E9FBKen7LJ&sig=jaLBL d1JAjV9BDA5NOEGPuoR_co#PPA494,M1

30 species of microorganisms including bacteria, yeasts, actinomycetes, fungi and algae were found to accumulate gold from laboratory solutions. This abstract also describes how Pseudomonas cells can be treated to absorb and desorb gold on demand. http://www.springerlink.com/content/u142554485g84k31/

Microbes moving gold in Southern Australia by various chemical methods:
http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/New...USIMMReith.pdf

In the reports from mining exploration, you will read how they have been finding gold ions that rise in a column to the surface soil above buried gold ores. According to Dr. Mark Fedikow, exploration geochemist and mineral deposits geologist, approximately 1000 sample sites have been analyzed using the mobile metal ion process (MMI) to locate gold and other mineral deposits since 1993 in over 30 countries. Dr. fedikow says the MMI technique of chemical and electronic analysis results in distinctive anomalies directly over mineralized zones. The MMI sampling has been successful for finding metal ions in the surface soil from Cu, Pb, Zn Cd, Ni, Co, Pd, Au, Ag, Cr, Nb, and Mg. The technology to locate these mineral deposits was developed by an Australian company who measures ions in the parts per billion and sub-parts per billion range in surface soil. The main testing laboratory for the MMI surveys is SGS Group.

See the SGS Group page that explains the movement of ions upward here: http://www.geochem.sgs.com/mmi__theory_geochem
See more web reports about sampling the soil for traces of metal from the vertical movement of metal ions here:
http://geea.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/...stract/5/3/201
http://www.diggerresources.com/hdrg.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_n8682755/
See more than 250,000 web pages showing reports of gold ions being measured in near-surface soil with MMI techniques here: http://www.google.com/search?q=mmi+g...&start=10&sa=N

While we don't see much gold corrosion, it is happening, and causing gold ions to move through the soil in a vertical column that can be detected by chemical surveys of the soil. The scientists who developed the MMI method to detect the location of gold deposits say the gold ions in the soil move upward in a column until they reach within 10-30 cm of the surface. Then they combine with other elements in the soil and cease to be ions. So we know there are no gold ion clouds hovering above a buried treasure. Only a very weak trail of gold ions above long-time buried gold. These trace ions can be measured by chemical measurements. Can they also be detected by an LRL?
I have never seen any live tests to suggest they can.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Can they also be detected by an LRL?
I have never seen any live tests to suggest they can.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.

I believe that any LRL can't detect the gold from Ions.

Regards

[GeoSys]

Interesting theories. But is there any locator that detects these gold ions ?

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by GOLDENSKULL

Hi to all friends,

we read some posts and see some devices that introduce in this site to remote sensing a treasure under ground...!!!

But these are my questions:

1- is this true, that buried gold (or other metals) emit negative ions that comes up to the surface of ground ?

2- just old buried metals emit these negative ions or new buried metals also emit these negative ions ?

3- really, can we detect these emitted negative ions by one negative ion detector device or not?

4- what we can do to increase these device sensitivity to detect these negative ions from more distance and more depth ?

Please, let's we answer to these question carefully to reach to the best results...

I am waiting for your good and perfect answers...

System open base PNP transistor (antenna type) can be good. Better germanium old type.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by GeoSys

Interesting theories. But is there any locator that detects these gold ions ?

What J_P said is not a theory. It is fact based on substantiated data collected by other experimenters and investigators.

While we don't see much gold corrosion, it is happening, and causing gold ions to move through the soil in a vertical column that can be detected by chemical surveys of the soil. The scientists who developed the MMI method to detect the location of gold deposits say the gold ions in the soil move upward in a column until they reach within 10-30 cm of the surface. Then they combine with other elements in the soil and cease to be ions. So we know there are no gold ion clouds hovering above a buried treasure.

A "locator", in the strict sense of the word, does not exist because gold ions above the ground do not exist. Thus, nothing to locate. End of Story.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Theseus

What J_P said is not a theory. It is fact based on substantiated data collected by other experimenters and investigators.

A "locator", in the strict sense of the word, does not exist because gold ions above the ground do not exist. Thus, nothing to locate. End of Story.

The secondary effect I called "phenomenon" and can be complex and can deppend of material, shape, position, type of ground, etc. In general, round forms as coins and rings are better detectable.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Esteban

The secondary effect I called "phenomenon" and can be complex and can deppend of material, shape, position, type of ground, etc. In general, round forms as coins and rings are better detectable.

I wonder if it is your contention that this "secondary effect phenomenon" is what you believe to be ions floating above the ground; or do you not know for sure what it is that you believe is touching off your detectors?

[GOLDENSKULL]

Hi,
Thanks J_Player,

Esteban, please tell us about a workable LRL to detect gold...
Did you really get results with these device ...

[GOLDENSKULL]

Hi,

you say that Buried gold releases positive ions,
Thus we can detect these ions by a positive ions detector... ?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by GOLDENSKULL

Hi,

you say that Buried gold releases positive ions,
Thus we can detect these ions by a positive ions detector... ?

I have seen no live demonstration to suggest that any kind of ion detector can detect the ions that are released from corroding metals in the ground. Not positive, negative, or other kinds of ion charge detector. In fact, I have never heard any evidence that corroding metal ions in the soil can be detected from a distance with any electronic device that is held in the air without contacting the soil. The only buried metal ion detection that has been proven is to make a survey by taking many soil samples over a large area, then test these samples in a laboratory to determine the parts per trillion of gold ions to find where an anomaly exists. For other metals such as copper, lead or silver, the concentration of ions can be thousands of times greater.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I have seen no live demonstration to suggest that any kind of ion detector can detect the ions that are released from corroding metals in the ground. Not positive, negative, or other kinds of ion charge detector. In fact, I have never heard any evidence that corroding metal ions in the soil can be detected from a distance with any electronic device that is held in the air without contacting the soil. The only buried metal ion detection that has been proven is to make a survey by taking many soil samples over a large area, then test these samples in a laboratory to determine the parts per trillion of gold ions to find where an anomaly exists. For other metals such as copper, lead or silver, the concentration of ions can be thousands of times greater.

Best wishes,
J_P

Based on this thread, and a few others, it seems the fact that "...never heard any evidence that corroding metal ions in the soil can be detected from a distance with any electronic device that is held in the air without contacting the soil.." is falling on deaf ears.

What a waste of time, energy and financial resources; chasing random beeps emitted by "edge-tuned high gain amplifiers".

The effort is akin to those keeping track of past Lotto drawings, and then believing there is some way to predict future drawings by studying the data. A time-consuming hobby but at the same time; An exercise in futility.

[Esteban]

Etc., etc., etc.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Etc., etc., etc.

Oh well, I guess there are worse things you could be wasting your time on.

[Max]

Originally Posted by GeoSys

Interesting theories. But is there any locator that detects these gold ions ?

The squid based amplifier DO

Some are currently used by the US army, exactly for this purpose...

Kind regards,
Max

[GOLDENSKULL]

Hi Max,

Did you build a workable LRL or other electrostatic detector ?

Did you get any result with building LRL or other electrostatic detector, yet ?

[Max]

Originally Posted by GOLDENSKULL

Hi Max,

Did you build a workable LRL or other electrostatic detector ?

Did you get any result with building LRL or other electrostatic detector, yet ?

Best I've made is based on Dr. Best design: half a mile for a gold coin

Not so bad, but I think it can go much better and sensitivity can be pushed at least 1 order magnitude more (5miles)

Just electrostatic stuff I made but with poor or no results. You need to integrate stuff, the more signals you catch the more sensitive device become.

Multi-sensing is the key to successful LRL!

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

Best I've made is based on Dr. Best design: half a mile for a gold coin

Not so bad, but I think it can go much better and sensitivity can be pushed at least 1 order magnitude more (5miles)

Just electrostatic stuff I made but with poor or no results. You need to integrate stuff, the more signals you catch the more sensitive device become.

Multi-sensing is the key to successful LRL!

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,
Which antenna option did you use on your Dr. Best based LRL design?
Was it the double spiral antenna, or the pyramidal logarithmic quadro spiral antenna?
How did you avoid the horrors of massive gold ion migration that turns you into a gold statue?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Max,
Which antenna option did you use on your Dr. Best based LRL design?
Was it the double spiral antenna, or the pyramidal logarithmic quadro spiral antenna?
How did you avoid the horrors of massive gold ion migration that turns you into a gold statue?

Best wishes,
J_P

I used both as test, but prefer the pyramidal logarithmic quadro spiral cause it's more directive.

No ion migration occours, if you use insulant shoes (rubber stuff) and charge your body positive respect to the soil... the metal ions are then repelled and flow to the ion sensor at middle of antenna disc.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

I used both as test, but prefer the pyramidal logarithmic quadro spiral cause it's more directive.

No ion migration occours, if you use insulant shoes (rubber stuff) and charge your body positive respect to the soil... the metal ions are then repelled and flow to the ion sensor at middle of antenna disc.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max, Thanks for the tips.
Should I connect the positive terminal of the battery supply to my ear with an alligator clip to keep me safe?
Or should I carry a small Van De Graff generator to charge me positive?

Best wishes,
J_P

[mosha]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Max, Thanks for the tips.
Should I connect the positive terminal of the battery supply to my ear with an alligator clip to keep me safe?
Or should I carry a small Van De Graff generator to charge me positive?

Best wishes,
J_P

Max & J_P

some mercy please, there are who will build Dr. Best based LRL design and implement your tips.

best wishes,
Mosha