The Aurificusian Hypothesis

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Theseus

I would be very open to a REAL technical solution, but real solutions by default must be accompanied by real facts, repeatable experiments with valid and supporting outcomes, and be experienced by several observers.

I have never claimed to give a REAL technical solution, only one more theorical proposition.
Just like it happened many times before, in this thread with Aurificus and in others before, and Max and JPlayer have constructively and inteligently debated about this IDEA and given information about why it doesn´t work .
I didn´t say "it works" or "here is how it works" , just "it could work that way", based on common sense and previously gathered info.
It´s just a theory, if you don´t like it i respect this that but i was expecting constructive comments.

[detectoman]

my dog what came whit me to desk, whit explanations of esteban lrl tecnic, have built today one own lrl
is joke

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Fred

I have never claimed to give a REAL technical solution, only one more theorical proposition.

Oh! I'm sorry, your words were

"...I gave a possible technical explanation..."

I was merely pointing out the attributes of a real technical explanation. Not sure how I could be any more constructive.

Now, if you really meant to say; theoretical proposition, then of course that is something different. I expect we have plenty of those to go around, and yours would be as good as any of the others.

[Max]

Originally Posted by detectoman

my dog what came whit me to desk, whit explanations of esteban lrl tecnic, have built today one own lrl
is joke

Seems your dog is smart enough ... to get Esteban's secrets all at one single request!

What's your dog avatar ???

Maybe had some appeal to him...

Kind regards,
Max

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by Max

You'll not hear the pin drops... cause when the pin will hit the floor it will resonate like a diapason at an audible frequency of some Khz ... but your ears are already full of strong hi volume (amplitude) notes and drums hits by the musicists there... and you're far from the pin.

The pin you'll not hear cause the impact of noise is very great cause the pin resonance happens at audible frequency, the same audible frequency of notes from concert.

Thank you Max, for a very polite and thoughtful response, lots of good info there for people following this thread.


Q.) What if I take my Dog to the concert? He is old and a bit deaf to Low Frequency noise............He Ignores me, even if I yell at him..

He can, however, hear the Ultrasonic Dog Whistle (I can't) or the rattle of my keys at the door (many Ultrasonic noises) and will immediately come home for dinner from 2 blocks away.

I suspect the pin will generate some ultrasonics as well as audible noise.



There is, also, a strong possibility that he CAN hear me, and perhaps even understands some of what I'm saying...... but he chooses to ignore it, because it doesn't suit his dog's world view and agenda.



P.S. I don't really have a dog, but if I did I would not consider locking him out to roam the neighbourhood all day. No yelling at him either.

P.P.S. This post must not be used to imply that any LRL detector is a "dog".

Cheers,
Aurificus

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by Fred

I have never claimed to give a REAL technical solution, only one more theorical proposition.
Just like it happened many times before, in this thread with Aurificus and in others before, and Max and JPlayer have constructively and inteligently debated about this IDEA and given information about why it doesn´t work .
I didn´t say "it works" or "here is how it works" , just "it could work that way", based on common sense and previously gathered info.
It´s just a theory, if you don´t like it i respect this that but i was expecting constructive comments.

A hypothesis (from Greek ὑπόθεσις [iˈpoθesis]) consists either of a suggested explanation for an observable phenomenon or of a reasoned proposal predicting a possible causal correlation among multiple phenomena.

This thread is designed to be exactly that, a Discussion about a suggested explanation(s) for a phenomenon.
i.e. IR LED detection as reported by Esteban & others.

By proposing Theories and being challenged to respond, I have gained a much deeper understanding of what might be occuring to allow Buried Metal Objects to be remotely (and basically passively) located. I'm hoping others are getting something out of it as well.

However, a Discussion on the Criteria for Scientific Proof of LRL, Acceptable "hit rates", Suitable "real" or artificial targets, operater skill. experience, influence etc, etc. etc. are much better presented in the New Thread,
"Criteria for Scientific Proof of LRL" Go for it...

Aurificus

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
IR leds... like any led stuff have epoxy container and some "cup" stuff... these things have a strong impact on e.g. aperture angle of light emitted... you can test very easy...

At meters this kind of propagation will make you "illuminate" several square meters of soil... cause these things are not lasers... their use is mostly for remote controls and it's good for remotes having such large diffusion of IR light, otherwise you'll have to aim the remote to the VCR/DVD thing... (like in cheap chinese stuff, very annoying ! )

If wanna a narrow spot you MUST use a laser module...

I must have a Chinese one, must aim directly at cable TV box, then wiggle around till it recognises it.

Perhaps cheap, Chinese led's have different lens/focal length, tighter beam?

Aurificus

[detectoman]

jajaja max, you always find the humor', embraces to all, build lrl is easy, most easy what md complex, but the lrl is critic in final adjustments this boom! the head
my dog is egresed of texas electronician university
good whises to all
detectoman

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by Theseus

LRL - If it was a viable technology it would have been advanced decades ago, right along with space travel and other scientific axioms.

What? Like Manned lunar Exploration, It's been 40 years, no change, no improvement.
Are you sure it wasn't done in a hanger in the desert?


Just kiddin'
Aurificus

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by detectoman

jajaja max, you always find the humor', embraces to all, build lrl is easy, most easy what md complex, but the lrl is critic in final adjustments this boom! the head
my dog is egresed of texas electronician university
good whises to all
detectoman

Hey Detectoman,

Your dog is cleverer than my dog.

"this boom! the head" do you mean increase the sensitivity or make your head explode? ..or both?

To think beyond existing standard techniques and to consider developing new ones is really hard work. It streches your brain & makes it hurt, I find it’s best done while asleep or in the shower. ( neither option is good for final tuning detectors though.)

Good wishes to you,
Aurificus

[Max]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

I must have a Chinese one, must aim directly at cable TV box, then wiggle around till it recognises it.

Perhaps cheap, Chinese led's have different lens/focal length, tighter beam?

Aurificus

Hi,
I don't think so, I had one of them... but scraped cause was annoyed of pointing the box with remote all the times...

In my case was due to not so smart design of the box: the IR receiver was put under plexiglass window but in kind of a "pit" ...too deep and not near surface...

the result was that even at small angle the remote was unable to illuminate the IR receiver and the so the box must be placed in a way the remote could easy point to front of it... very bad design of the box I think.

I mean... sometimes are cheap and also well looking... slim...silvery color like that I had... but an IR receiver that works just at -+5 degrees is not that smart for consumer product like this DVD player I'm talking about.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

What? Like Manned lunar Exploration, It's been 40 years, no change, no improvement.
Are you sure it wasn't done in a hanger in the desert?


Just kiddin'
Aurificus

Hmmmm.... I think last 40years have lot of new discoveries... for space exploration and not only.

Just the space-race ended with Apollo missions and all interest drop to nearly zero...

Space Shuttle program created just a fraction of the interest than Apollo... and mostly cause of accidents that occurred in 1986 and 2003. I think many people see the money employed in that program as wasted cause there were no big apparent "results". Indeed, there were many from microgravity experiments etc but big fraction of common people don't see anything interesting in that.

We already have full technology and knowledge for Mars exploration... maybe from 20-30years ago now... but nobody go there cause the cost of that missions will be in the hundreds billion dollars... that's it.

There's no cold war anymore, there's no reason to spend such money just for the glory maybe... or to justify to the people such expense... there are other BIG problems... and economic crisis in US and other countries don't help politicians in such a move...

The rocket technology required for Mars missions is probably related to the use of nuclear-thermal-propulsion... and that's another issue: people don't like today the word "nuclear" ... and there are real risks employing such a thing in the atmosphere (worldwide nuclear contamination possible)... so the rocket NASA have to assemble in pieces in the space !

Too complex... too money required... too things to worry about... and no real reason to start that program.

I think... if we'll not have another phenomenon like cold-war space-race we can also forget the man will go on Mars by 2037 o 2050... or whatever.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

By proposing Theories and being challenged to respond, I have gained a much deeper understanding of what might be occuring to allow Buried Metal Objects to be remotely (and basically passively) located. I'm hoping others are getting something out of it as well.

Hi Aurificus,
I see you have found much satisfaction in participating in a circus of humor. But what have you learned, specifically in your much deeper understanding of what might be occurring to allow buried metal objects to be remotely located?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Aurificus,
I see you have found much satisfaction in participating in a circus of humor. But what have you learned, specifically in your much deeper understanding of what might be occurring to allow buried metal objects to be remotely located?

Best wishes,
J_P

1) "Be Discriminating, Focus attention on the signals...they are not the same as the noises."

2) take a Dog to a rock concert.... if you want to detect a pin drop!

3) google Seebeck effect

4) to be continued....more to come

Kind wishes to you, also
Aurificus

[Max]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

1) "Be Discriminating, Focus attention on the signals...they are not the same as the noises."

2) take a Dog to a rock concert.... if you want to detect a pin drop!

3) google Seebeck effect

4) to be continued....more to come

Kind wishes to you, also
Aurificus

Hi,
for point 2 ... I don't really think that a dog could hear the pin hit the floor from 20 meters far in a concert... not that have importance here...

but I think in a concert there's enough ultrasound noise to swamp any tiny amount due to the pin.

Even if a person rubs his eyes or the crown jewels area... there will be alot of ultrasounds generated...

now... think at a boring , tedious concert with violins (this also generates plenty of ultrasound waves), basses and oboe stuff... I think many boys that are there just to partner their girl... who is possibly passionate of classical music... instead of being at home...on the sofa... playing with their playstation3... drinking beer and screaming blasphemies ... will rub eyes/jewels... thinking "how much it takes that damn $@!& concert... wanna go home...drink the beer...etc"

Now... the problem is: is the dog able to discriminate ultrasound generated by the pin hitting the floor and all the rubs there ???

I don't think so.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

1) "Be Discriminating, Focus attention on the signals...they are not the same as the noises."

2) take a Dog to a rock concert.... if you want to detect a pin drop!

3) google Seebeck effect

4) to be continued....more to come

Kind wishes to you, also
Aurificus

Interesting.
From what I can gather, these things you learned pertain to the following:
1) Be Discriminating, Focus attention on the signals...they are not the same as the noises -- pertains to the concept that the noise does not matter if you only want to detect the signal.
2) take a Dog to a rock concert.... if you want to detect a pin drop! -- pertains to the concept that you should use a detector that cannot hear the noise, it only hears the signal you want to find.
3) google Seebeck effect -- pertains to the concept that the Seebeck effect, or Peltier effect of generating electricity from the junction of two dissimilar metals at different temperatures will allow an IR LED to detect a buried coin.
4) to be continued....more to come -- pertains to more examples like those above to be seen in future episodes of how an IR LED responds to the thermal gradient of a buried coin.

I must congratulate you for persevering through the challenges that tend to illustrate how the thermal gradient of a coin cannot be detected when buried some distance below a normal soil surface.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Interesting.
From what I can gather, these things you learned pertain to the following:
1) Be Discriminating, Focus attention on the signals...they are not the same as the noises -- pertains to the concept that the noise does not matter if you only want to detect the signal.
2) take a Dog to a rock concert.... if you want to detect a pin drop! -- pertains to the concept that you should use a detector that cannot hear the noise, it only hears the signal you want to find.
3) google Seebeck effect -- pertains to the concept that the Seebeck effect, or Peltier effect of generating electricity from the junction of two dissimilar metals at different temperatures will allow an IR LED to detect a buried coin.
4) to be continued....more to come -- pertains to more examples like those above to be seen in future episodes of how an IR LED responds to the thermal gradient of a buried coin.

I must congratulate you for persevering through the challenges that tend to illustrate how the thermal gradient of a coin cannot be detected when buried some distance below a normal soil surface.

Best wishes,
J_P

Thank-you, J_P, I have no illusions of the difficulty of the task.

I just prefer to approach this problem from the position of:

"If the reported phenomenon is true, Why is it so?"

rather than:

" I don't think this can work, here's why!"

and especially:

" I don't think,.....this can't work,.... it's all BS....show me the treasure!!

Dialectical discussion is fundamental to development of deeper understanding of any issue. I am enjoying the process.

cheers,
Aurificus

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

What? Like Manned lunar Exploration, It's been 40 years, no change, no improvement.
Are you sure it wasn't done in a hanger in the desert?


Just kiddin'
Aurificus

Just because we haven't gone back in 40 years does not infer the technology is not available to go today; ...if we wanted to.

LRL and dowsing in general, on the other hand, has been mired down with the same problems since history has recorded its use by the Egyptians.

Surely, if it was a real science-related technology, it would have been advanced to some degree by now. Wouldn't you think?

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by Theseus

LRL and dowsing in general, on the other hand, has been mired down with the same problems since history has recorded its use by the Egyptians.

Surely, if it was a real science-related technology, it would have been advanced to some degree by now. Wouldn't you think?

I have no Understanding or Interest in dowsing, divining and the like.

I have a set of electrical technology manuals from c.1920. None of the
electrical theories & concepts have changed, some seem a bit basic,
but actually more clearly & far better explained than most current texts.
(but, no TV,FM radio, transistors or solid state stuff).
I'm an analogue kind of guy, in an increasingly digital world.

As far as advancing the science, little effort is put into anything for the benefit of "hobbyists" any more, no (not enough) money in it.
I hear Minelab is shutting down the Irish factory.

Lots of money spent making computers smaller & faster for movies & games.

Lots of the advanced science is being used for deep space investigation.
It's amazing what they can do with remote sensing. Detecting the presence of tiny planets around stars from the interference patterns in the gravity waves and "dark matter" Of course we just have to accept what they say is true, cos, they're scientists and we can't repeat their experiments.

There has been some military work done on mine detection at night using
"cosmic radiation" as the illumination source. ie passive detection
quite successful according to the extract I saw. I don't suppose that counts.

Looks like its up to me to advance things a degree or two

To Infinity.... & Beyond
Aurificus

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

I have no Understanding or Interest in dowsing, divining and the like.

Maybe so... but lots of current-day LRLs still utilize L-rods for getting responses, so if you have any interest in these contraptions, then by default you have an interest in dowsing, since they cannot operate without the operator supplying a dowsing response.

Looks like its up to me to advance things a degree or two

To Infinity.... & Beyond
Aurificus

Good luck...

[detectoman]

i carry my dog to field, to detection, and he learn to excave and detect whit snif the objects, one cake for he if find one nuget, only one candy if he find coins, so he then discriminate
detectoman and dogdetector

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

Lots of the advanced science is being used for deep space investigation.
It's amazing what they can do with remote sensing. Detecting the presence of tiny planets around stars from the interference patterns in the gravity waves and "dark matter" Of course we just have to accept what they say is true, cos, they're scientists and we can't repeat their experiments.

There has been some military work done on mine detection at night using
"cosmic radiation" as the illumination source. ie passive detection
quite successful according to the extract I saw. I don't suppose that counts.

Looks like its up to me to advance things a degree or two

To Infinity.... & Beyond
Aurificus

Hi Aurificus,
Does this mean that after you complete your advanced LRL, you will only tell stories about the great performance, and will never show a demonstration of it actually recovering treasures in front of witnesses who can report what they observe in the Geotech forums?

Will you keep the circuit diagram and easy instructions to assemble a working advanced LRL as a secret?
Or will you show people how they can easily build one of these advanced LRLs to test for themselves to see if it can actually find buried metal or not?

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by detectoman

i carry my dog to field, to detection, and he learn to excave and detect whit snif the objects, one cake for he if find one nuget, only one candy if he find coins, so he then discriminate
detectoman and dogdetector

Hi Dman,
Does dogdetector have puppies for sale?
¿Hay perritos en venta de este detector-perro?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Aurificus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Aurificus,
Does this mean that after you complete your advanced LRL, you will only tell stories about the great performance, and will never show a demonstration of it actually recovering treasures in front of witnesses who can report what they observe in the Geotech forums?

Will you keep the circuit diagram and easy instructions to assemble a working advanced LRL as a secret?
Or will you show people how they can easily build one of these advanced LRLs to test for themselves to see if it can actually find buried metal or not?

I think I'll just keep considering the Physics at the moment. (Quantum & Newtonian)

If I stop posting, and the price of gold drops dramatically, and photos of new big nugget finds keep popping up on forums....well......
I would rather be out "in the bush" than selling cheap, easily, copyable, electronic devices. (plenty of others out there, happy to do that!)

Still, if the current exploration of the Science proves that a detectable "Phenomena" is likely to be present, then I'm sure, there are plenty with "knowledge of the arts" from the MD area to fill a thread with viable circuits and improvements.

Of course, we would need to shift over to MD or Geophysics......No longer being illegitimate "B**t**d's"...

I also have, what I consider to be a great original idea for a quite different type of MD too! But then, doesn't every-one?

cheers,
Aurificus

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Aurificus

I think I'll just keep considering the Physics at the moment. (Quantum & Newtonian)

If I stop posting, and the price of gold drops dramatically, and photos of new big nugget finds keep popping up on forums....well......
I would rather be out "in the bush" than selling cheap, easily, copyable, electronic devices. (plenty of others out there, happy to do that!)

Still, if the current exploration of the Science proves that a detectable "Phenomena" is likely to be present, then I'm sure, there are plenty with "knowledge of the arts" from the MD area to fill a thread with viable circuits and improvements.

Of course, we would need to shift over to MD or Geophysics......No longer being illegitimate "B**t**d's"...

I also have, what I consider to be a great original idea for a quite different type of MD too! But then, doesn't every-one?

cheers,
Aurificus

No, no....
You have it all wrong!

We are not interested in knowing the details of your great original idea for a quite different type of MD. This belongs to you alone.

What we are interested in is to learn what results you get from the knowledge you say gou gained from reading this forum about detecting buried metal using an IR LED detector. Since we hear claims of detecting buried metal with IR LED detectos, but no plausible explanation to describe how it could possibly work, and no demonstration to show that it actually will result in recovering a treasure, we only look for a way to convince ourselves that it works in spite of the preponderance of evidence that suggests it does not. A simple demonstration, or an easy to build project would settle the dispute as to whether this method works or not.

Considering how you claim to have gathered much of the key information from this forum to pioneer an advanced IR LRL which surpasses the capabilities of Esteban's IR LRL, does it not seem fitting that you would feel gratitude enough to demonstrate to the forum what you have learned?

Or is it your intention to act as a parasitic organism who extracts the best of the years of toil and tormentuous work of dedicated experimenters like Esteban and others who have found the keys to unlock the locks that have concealed the method for so many ages, only to hide the fruits of their labours, while tormenting those who contributed by showing photos of nuggets you have found using their methods?

Best wishes,
J_P