Action of the Earth in solenoids

[Esteban]

Hung

Yes, the field around these good conductive metal buried for long time exists and you can probe with a simple needle microammeter... with some simple electrodes based on science...

[Esteban]

Schematic based on HV, 5,000 volts.

Sorry the small picture...

[Esteban]

HV coil for pistol type Tesla

[Sean_Goddard]

My Avatar is in fact the KMS Bismarck firing the fatal salvo against HMS Hood in thew battle of the Denmark Straits. I know, I've met ALL three of the Hoods survivors!

Esteban, FANTASTIC, NOW I will make this and see what happens. Can you give me some pointers on how to use it please? I am NOT going to pooh, pooh your schematics or ideas unti lI have proved to myself.

I REALLY want to try this stuff for myself!!

Hung if you'd actually READ my posts, I said I DO NOT dispute that LRL's may work, what I dispute is the silly and made up science used to explain things which cannot be explained. Gold ions and the like. GOLD DOES NOT CORRODE therefore cannot give of any such ions, THAT is why it is found in it's natural state as GOLD and iron is found as FERROUS OXIDE and Alimunium is found as BAUXITE (Aluminium Oxide) and Lead is found as Lead Oxide. With these metals you might have a chance to smell them, best to smell the coffee though .

Now as with any large mass the gravitational field in the vacinity will be very slightly distorted and as a consequence moneral depostits may be further attracted to the target. In ALL cases this will happen, but due to the many targets, each with it's own distortion, many will cancel out. The target would have ot be quite large to have any measurable effect. THIS kind of explanation could be believed. I could quote you on how "voltage concentration" might work, but I guess there is some existing answer used by LRLers.

What I am aiming for is EXPLANTIONS in quantifiable terms, not just grabbing at half understood straws. It's not the theories presented, but the way in which they are explained, in the main it shows a very limited understanding of simple physics. When we all talk the same (real science) language, or even the purest language of all, MATHEMATICS, then we can all relate and start making true progress as to just HOW these devices you are building REALLY work, and I'm sure we would ALL benefit from that.

YES I am ignorant of the practices involved in LRL sensing, but I am NOT ignorant in physics theory and it's application to the field (pun intended) of electronics. I could leave your head spinning if I started quoting quantum theory at you, but I am openminded as you suggest and I want to learn more.

I will go back and read these posts as you ask, and will join in more as I learn about the subject.

[Esteban]

The direction system of the Bismarck was inmovilized by torpedo launching by Swordfish biplanes. So, Bismarck lose direction and girates and girates... At first sight this is an inconsequence... These old planes was used with the purpose for not to be reached by rapid sequence of the Bismarck's shots... so was used slow planes.

The sunken of Bismarck was a brutal persecution by British navy, a kind of revenge. The Prince of Wales had a effective electronic shooting system, if I remember well... I saw it in documental film.

[Sean_Goddard]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Schematic based on HV, 5,000 volts.

Sorry the small picture...

So you are saying I could use this to "amplify" the voltage from a target object into one sufficient to measure on a Digital Voltage Meter? I think that is what you mean, yes? That would make sense.

But wouldn't that signal have to be AC in nature for the transformer to work? How does this signal get to be AC and what frequency might it be at please? Unless you yourself "chop" the incoming signal using a signal generator of some sort. Am I getting warm because I can see that there is some practical theory in this approach? If this is the case, then Hung, you are right, I should read more on the subject (No I am not a convert yet)

I know Earth resonance is around 20Hz (Tesla proved that a long time ago).

I'm not probing you to see if you know, I just want an explanation I can understand, Thanks.

You are correct in your history of the Bismarck hunt. 75 ships of the Royal Navy hunted him down with orders to exact revenge for the sinking of the Hood. Truth is, if the Officer in charge of Bismarck had been any good, he would have pursued and sunk the Prince of Wales also. It would have been easy since the Bismarck had already knocked out all the POW's senior officers with a shell which hit the binacle, shrapnel from which killed all but one man on the bridge. Furthermore, the rear turret of POW was jammed and as she was running way making smoke and on fire, the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen would have been in the clear with no return fire. Adm. Gunther Lutjens was scared of two British heavy cruisers and their torpedoes, and as the German radar (SeeTakt) was not working properly that day (the vibrations from the main guns broke it) he was unsure of how far away the British support ships were and didn't want to risk any further damage to Bismark.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Do you believe I will post these complete schematics here? They exists.

This is an oscillator I use for gold detection... with other arrangements.

Once was found a corroded fluorescent ballast with the copper wire exposed... green. Seems this ballast burns because most part of the wire lose the barnish and is green by oxidation.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Sean Goddard

GOLD DOES NOT CORRODE therefore cannot give of any such ions

Hi Sean,
Your statement is not entirely true. Gold that has been buried for a long time does corrode in small amounts. There are microorganisms which secrete chemicals such as cyanide, and are able to produce sulfur complexes which dissolve gold from the surface of the metal in small amounts. These dissolved gold ions very slowly migrate to the surface of the earth in a column due to capillary action of the rain cycles. After reaching within 10 cm of the surface of the earth, the ions become bound with other chemiical elements, and are moved laterally, mostly from erosion mechanisms.

The MMI corporation has been doing soil analysis surveys at gold mines and other metal ore mines to pinpoint where the main ore bodies are located up to 5000 feet deep. This has been a highly successful business for the past 16 years, resulting in the recovery of many tons of gold, copper, and other industrial metals.

There are also microorganisms which precipitate gold from the dissolved ion state to solid gold particles. In Australia, miners have found exceptionally pure gold nuggets which were percipitated in this same manner. Thus, enough gold ions were dissolved to become re-precipitated as commercially viable nuggets in another location quite some distance from the original location of the gold deposit. ie: gold moved through the ground by dissolving, and then re-precipitating somewhere else, with the help of a collection of microorganisms that live in generally uninhabitable environments.

See these links where I detailed the mechanisms of naturally transporting gold ions:http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13276
Take note of my posts here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=10
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=33
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=41
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=57

Item 2. Voltages in the ground:

The voltages in the ground that Esteban talks about are probably a result of telluric currents. These are naturally occurring currents that are driven by the electric exchanges which occur in the outer ionosphere. Through the mechanism of lightning storms and slow leakage of current through the atmosphere, there are electrical charges that accumulate, and need to move as the earth spins. The telluric currents will vary in their measured voltage and direction over a distance of ground due to variations in the composition of the soil. And buried metals, as well as ionized metals under the ground will distort the voltage and path that the current moves. These telluric currents were once used to power the early telegraphs in the USA. They would drive copper rods in the ground at different locations where they would find a voltage difference, then use this voltage to power the telegraphs. But later, the telegraph companies switched to battery and generated power because it was more reliable than the fluctuating telluric currents.

Item 3. Yes, you are correct. We cannot know if these LRLs are actually detecting these anomalies or if they are working on some other principle, or if they don't even work, unless we first perform some real tests.

For example, I can take any LRL and point it all directions until I see which way it points out the treasure. Then I start swinging my VLF metal detector off in that direction until I find something. If I don't find anything until I reach 5 miles, then I suppose the LRL detected the target from 5 miles distance. Of course, if I am an LRL proponent, I will be bragging about my LRL that detected a target at 5 miles range all through the forums. But do you really believe this is a good test method?

It appears that all the people who claim they have a good working LRL refuse to show a complete schematic that can be built. Why is this? Are they waiting to get rich on their patents?

Ooops, what patents?
Ignoring the un-patentable designs that were taken from other designers, and cannot be patented, can you think of any reason why nobody who has a working LRL will post a schematic for a simple LRL that finds stuff like aluminum at 10 feet distance?

A simple LRL that only finds aluminum will not start a rush of Chinese manufacturers mass producing the LRL. But is will serve as a good tool to test to see if it is detecting currents in the ground, or ions or some other geo-signal from the buried target.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

Sean, I hope you get to make Esteban's device.
I think since these are true electronic devices, they have a chance to work.
As far as these other mechanical LRLs, it would take some "special abilities" to get them to ever work.
Hung, somebody's got to keep you honest, that is the reason skeptics are here, to try to keep some of your wild imaginations in check.
Seems like you don't need your LRLs at the shipwreak, a simple compass would be sufficient because of its erratic readings, maybe that is one time the compass wasn't right, while your LRLs are always wrong
.

[Sean_Goddard]

And THAT is the whole problem.......What????

Esteban, if you don't post complete schematics how can I build an LRL for myself? I said I wanted to prove whether I ret results. I know I appear a sceptic in other posts, but I have been reading about these things and I, along wit hmany others here, wish to know more yet you won't tell us or give us the tools to learn.

It's no trade secret I guess, unless there is something to hide. I gave you a possible explanation of the Tesla Probe and now you hit reverse gear and run away? Dude I was TELLING you how in REAL terms this thing may actually WORK!! Did you see it as some attack on your pseudo scientific explanation as that was NOT the way I intended it.

Looking at the probe I'm thinking of a way to detect anomalies in the surrounding voltage field of possible targets. If you chop the input to the primary at say 59KHz (I think you said that was a Gold frequency) then have a narrow band filter on the secondary, you could monitor the AVERAGE field and look for slight changes. This may work as a detection method, but it is NOT psuedo science, this is hard physical. An Electronics Engineer would be able ot make such a device in a few hours.

J_Player, of course you are right, Gold does corrode in fact I have found a 500 year old Gold ring and it was almost black. I suppose the alloy making it less that 24ct. may have also contributed, but as I stand corrected by you although I agree, it is a VERY small amount and it takes a VERY long time.

OMG I'd completely forgotten about Telluric currents!! One further thought, with all the RF and LF signals pumped out by te human race these days, might they not also cause some interaction with a "desired" target? See the Compass Depth Enhancer. Also I have found that searching with a conventional metal detector in a field that has an active electric fence around it, I get a LOT more depth (and ear bashing), but the depth is a DEFINATE 1.5 to 2X normal. I wonder if;

1) The targets are being "precharged" in some way.

2) The ground is "ringing" and thus so are the targets.

Ideas anyone? LRLers included .

[hung]

Originally Posted by Sean_Goddard

Esteban, if you don't post complete schematics how can I build an LRL for myself? I said I wanted to prove whether I ret results. I know I appear a sceptic in other posts, but I have been reading about these things and I, along wit hmany others here, wish to know more yet you won't tell us or give us the tools to learn.

If you are a 'real' electronics engineer with some serious research attitude, then Esteban's hints are more than enough for you to start your own thing. In fact I should prevent Esteban of quiting posting even half schematics as there are the risks involved as we have already discussed.

If you happen to fully understand the phenomena one day, then with just a FET , a LED a couple of minor things and some wires you build up a working LRL.

Esteban knows how to protect his own research and he knows as you should, there's no 'lunch for free'.

[Sean_Goddard]

Risks, would that be that they could be analysed? That was not my intention, to ridicule. Why all this defensiveness all of a sudden when a valid request is being made for help. I am most concerned there is something to hide, yet if these devices truly work, why would you do that?

You give sceptics cause to believe that your motives are more than a desire for your "competitors" not to see your designs, but I worry that there is more going on here than that, and that does not look good.

At every turn I see evasion and for someone who is openminded to the possibilities or LRL's (after doing more research) I find little cooperation here.

I will build my idea and then I will design an LRL based on REAL hard fact truth electronics. When it works, and it WILL, I will come here and show you pictures of my treasures, but I will not tell you how I made it or how it works.

See, I can be that way too. I have not asked for anything special, but I will not give it either even though I may have it to give. I too can deal in falsehood but I prefer not to. If I create a design that works, I will happily give it to those who have helped me in the past, but not those who don't . The ball is in YOUR court.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Sean_Goddard

2) The ground is "ringing" and thus so are the targets.

I found than when a truck (diesel engine) vibrates the soil in zone with "false terain" the target is best detectable. Expect this movement produces another secondary phenomenon.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Sean_Goddard

Looking at the probe I'm thinking of a way to detect anomalies in the surrounding voltage field of possible targets. If you chop the input to the primary at say 59KHz (I think you said that was a Gold frequency) then have a narrow band filter on the secondary, you could monitor the AVERAGE field and look for slight changes.

The more serious schematics i have seen before all rely on this principle.
The problem with averaging a signal and staynig always at the edge of triggering is that you end with a random beeping that your mind can associate to targets....

Originally Posted by Sean_Goddard

OMG I'd completely forgotten about Telluric currents!! One further thought, with all the RF and LF signals pumped out by te human race these days, might they not also cause some interaction with a "desired" target? See the Compass Depth Enhancer. Also I have found that searching with a conventional metal detector in a field that has an active electric fence around it, I get a LOT more depth (and ear bashing), but the depth is a DEFINATE 1.5 to 2X normal. I wonder if;
1) The targets are being "precharged" in some way.
2) The ground is "ringing" and thus so are the targets.

I think the signals to be detected are variable (AC),so they must come from external source.
You electric fence observation is very interesting and should be better documented,to avoid "mind effects" and for example to see how long after turning up the fence and after turning it off the effect remains.

Originally Posted by hung

If you are a 'real' electronics engineer with some serious research attitude, then Esteban's hints are more than enough for you to start your own thing. In fact I should prevent Esteban of quiting posting even half schematics as there are the risks involved as we have already discussed.

-If it is so simple why not to post it anyway ?
-Why Esteban must obey you so quickly ? Are you is boss or superior to him ?

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Ooops, what patents?
Ignoring the un-patentable designs that were taken from other designers, and cannot be patented, can you think of any reason why nobody who has a working LRL will post a schematic for a simple LRL that finds stuff like aluminum at 10 feet distance?

A simple LRL that only finds aluminum will not start a rush of Chinese manufacturers mass producing the LRL. But is will serve as a good tool to test to see if it is detecting currents in the ground, or ions or some other geo-signal from the buried target.

Best wishes,
J_P

I found a site with many aluminium cans (at first moment I think that are aluminium cans and unbury one as a sample). So, I surrounding the area from all positions and don't was detected this aluminium cans. Previously at 5 meters of this "cemetery" of aluminium cans (aluminium cans are not corroded. OK? Maybe corroded is other case...) I detect a site and found a bronze coin and Nintendo token (is correct here token?) one on other one. Don't know wich alloys is this token, but the both was detectable exceptionally very well at 3 meters and continue over the targets. Also don't know if the mix of this 2 kind of metals produces a "variant case" as Volta battery because a 1797 or 1798 Spanish silver coin don't was detectable very well. The conjunction of this both metal was better detectable. Any theory?

PS: I found many detectors in old magazine maybe never was patented but some years later other persons appears as the "inventors", one of such devices called impulse detector wich works as pulse induction...
To patent any invention is expensive...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

In fact I should prevent Esteban of quiting posting even half schematics as there are the risks involved as we have already discussed.

Originally Posted by Fred

Why Esteban must obey you so quickly ? Are you is boss or superior to him ?

That's funny!

I was just going to ask the same question.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Sean_Goddard

Looking at the probe I'm thinking of a way to detect anomalies in the surrounding voltage field of possible targets. If you chop the input to the primary at say 59KHz (I think you said that was a Gold frequency) then have a narrow band filter on the secondary, you could monitor the AVERAGE field and look for slight changes. This may work as a detection method, but it is NOT psuedo science, this is hard physical. An Electronics Engineer would be able ot make such a device in a few hours.

First time I use 300 Khz with other coil, no tune capacitor used here, but frequency was 300 Khz. At this frequency I found cigarette paper and other junk. But at 59.5 Khz don't occurs this, and can't asure that this is the gold frequency, but at this frequency other "bad" metals are rejected. Maybe because at 300 Khz more great variation of frequency is noticeable, but at 59.5 Khz the variation is low at presence of these "bad" metals, so detection doesn't occurs.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Esteban

First time I use 300 Khz with other coil, no tune capacitor used here, but frequency was 300 Khz. At this frequency I found cigarette paper and other junk. But at 59.5 Khz don't occurs this, and can't asure that this is the gold frequency, but at this frequency other "bad" metals are rejected. Maybe because at 300 Khz more great variation of frequency is noticeable, but at 59.5 Khz the variation is low at presence of these "bad" metals, so detection doesn't occurs.

Hello Esteban

its possible adapt to Pistoldetectors some variable knob to change for diferent frequencies ???,i mean something who change the freq. from ferrite.

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by hung

If you are a 'real' electronics engineer with some serious research attitude, then Esteban's hints are more than enough for you to start your own thing. In fact I should prevent Esteban of quiting posting even half schematics as there are the risks involved as we have already discussed.

If you happen to fully understand the phenomena one day, then with just a FET , a LED a couple of minor things and some wires you build up a working LRL.

Esteban knows how to protect his own research and he knows as you should, there's no 'lunch for free'.

And this proves a point, homemade LRLs are better than the name brands for sale , which shouldn't be too hard to do.
Hung even mentioned he doesn't use the Ranger anymore because he made his own.
Now the whole future of LRLs are in the hands of homemade builders that won't divulge .
Ok, I can see not giving away all your work for nothing, make your LRLs, put the electronics in dark epoxy and sell some .

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

And this proves a point, homemade LRLs are better than the name brands for sale , which shouldn't be too hard to do.
Hung even mentioned he doesn't use the Ranger anymore because he made his own.
Now the whole future of LRLs are in the hands of homemade builders that won't divulge .
Ok, I can see not giving away all your work for nothing, make your LRLs, put the electronics in dark epoxy and sell some .

Not to worry, Steve. If there was anything at all to the technology(?), and it actually worked, it wouldn't just be known in remote corners of this world by one or two that post on this forum. Neither would it have to be hidden in black epoxy. I like all your "laughing faces", because it shows that you think the same way I do.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Not to worry, Steve. If there was anything at all to the technology(?), and it actually worked, it wouldn't just be known in remote corners of this world by one or two that post on this forum. Neither would it have to be hidden in black epoxy. I like all your "laughing faces", because it shows that you think the same way I do.

Yes... Sometimes in the remote corners of this world you can found some things... explorers know this since remote times and maybe remote sensing (in this case based on electronics) can be one...

[Esteban]

You can start with the magnetic field detector by Andy Flind published on Everyday... magazine. No transformer is used here, of course.

Here the Andy's project inside my fiberglass pistol.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Esteban

You can start with the magnetic field detector by Andy Flind published on Everyday... magazine. No transformer is used here, of course.

Here the Andy's project inside my fiberglass pistol.

I will try to find this schematic in internet.
Thanks for this information.

[Sean_Goddard]

SWEET. Andy the Genius strikes again!

Andy was a very good friend of mine and as you know, sadly passed away a few years back .

It's good to see his genius still producing the goods

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Sean_Goddard

SWEET. Andy the Genius strikes again!

Andy was a very good friend of mine and as you know, sadly passed away a few years back .

It's good to see his genius still producing the goods

Yes, Andy was a great man...

Morgan, you can't found in internet, this was published on Everday with Practical Electronics magazine in the 80s.

Is very simple: you connect the loop-core system I post here instead the transformer in the Andy's schematic. The output you connect to the comparator/timer/tone generator I post here. You put a potentiometer instead the audio preset in Andy's schematic as sensibility control. The bargraph preset you adjust when first led of. Better if this circut is in metalic case, loop must be outside.

For rights of the publishers, I can't post the Andy's schematic.