some cosiderations

[Seden]

Ah I see you were looking at his most recent patent 7,221,164 and yeah that's pretty cutting edge allright. Who would of thought of using water as an E field sensor?

The previous patent I mentioned gives all the engineering details that are left out in the one you quoted plus the frequency graphs. And the distances above earth plus being able to see down 20,000 feet or greater definately puts it in the class of an LRL big time.

We of course recognize the fact that the E field is vertically polarized and so limits the distance for someone on the ground the possibility of that kind of range away from the target but still being able to get the depth no problem.
But how far can the vertically polarized E field be detected on the ground? What is the formula to calculate this?

Randy

[J_Player]

It would depend on the configuration and orientation of your antenna as well as the sensing electronics.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Nihil Roma Maius

Esteban:

This Max loose clarity in mind. He is not prepared for to discuss seriously.

Is well if he have experience in electronic LRL. But NO. Also ANY idea about it.

Margarita ante porcos.

Best Regards

Nihil Roma Maius

Hi,
I've built one... of these I posted (the first) that has a kind of translation of article by Quiaozhi, results:

-detect power lines, all kind of noise
-in my test garden cannot detect any of my targets (even buried for 7years)
- outside (forests etc) it can be tuned to be almost silent... but then detected a big power line at 200meters... randomic beeps... even far storms !

Totally unuseful. Waste of time.

Margarita ante porcos !

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Are you sure the devices you built had a low pass filter and were optimized to look at low frequencies below 1 HZ? What were the resonant frequencies of the noise you found?

Best wishes,
J_Player

[J_Player]

***** NEW HALO LAW IS PASSED! *****

Through duly processed principles of democracy, the halo law is hereby enacted as a result of popular vote of the voting members of the remote sensing forum. The voters have determined in a free election that:

1. Halo is real.
2. Halo is good for metal detectors.
3. Halo is good for LRLs.

Democracy proves what is true and what is not!
From this point forward, you may invoke the halo law any time somebody tells you there is no halo, and you will be correct. If you don't agree with the new halo law, then maybe you should have voted!


The final results of the halo voting were:

3 votes Halo is real.
0 votes Halo is fake.

3 votes Halo is good for metal detector.
0 votes Halo is bad for metal detector.

2 votes Halo is good for LRL.
0 votes Halo is bad for LRL.

Be sure to update your records about halo is real and is good for detectors and LRLs.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Are you sure the devices you built had a low pass filter and were optimized to look at low frequencies below 1 HZ? What were the resonant frequencies of the noise you found?

Best wishes,
J_Player

Hi,
I've followed the original schematic, no mods. It cannot find the water as said... I mean can't do it for rivers and other surface flowing water and also for underground flows, tested in 3 different places for underground water , 2 places have underground pipes with a constant flow of water inside, 1 is a natural underground flow of water of know origin (river).

Found absolutely nothing. No beeps at all in the 3 tests.

Of course, same for metals, even long time buried. Nothing.

In the same place I've tested it I found then after 3 ancient items using a VLF metal detector : 1 copper 18mm diameter, 2 bronze long shape.

Circuits of above serve nothing, don't work for water or metals, just find AC noise.

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by MAX

don't work for water or metals, just find AC noise.

You did not answer my questions:

Originally Posted by J_Player

Are you sure the devices you built had a low pass filter and were optimized to look at low frequencies below 1 HZ? What were the resonant frequencies of the noise you found?

Ok, now what was your low pass filter cutoff point? what was the resonant frequency of the noise you heard? Was the AC noise below 1Hz like I asked? Or was it above 1 Hz? How many db attenuation did your circuit have for frequencies above 2 Hz?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

You did not answer my questions: Ok, now what was your low pass filter cutoff point? what was the resonant frequency of the noise you heard? Was the AC noise below 1Hz like I asked? Or was it above 1 Hz? How many db attenuation did your circuit have for frequencies above 2 Hz?

Best wishes,
J_P

? what do you mean ?
Don't you see the circuit diagram ?

Do you mean that if I'll mod it like you said I'll detect water or metals with it?

Don't understand.

[J_Player]

Hi Max,

I mean nothing different than what I asked.

Let me ask again so you can understand:

1. What was your low pass filter cutoff point?
2. What was the resonant frequency of the noise you heard?
3. Was the AC noise you say you found below 1Hz? Or was it above 1 Hz?
4. How many db attenuation did your circuit have for frequencies above 2 Hz?

I did not say anything about what you will find or anything to mod. I only asked those questions. Do you know the answers?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Max,

I mean nothing different than what I asked.

Let me ask again so you can understand:

1. What was your low pass filter cutoff point?
2. What was the resonant frequency of the noise you heard?
3. Was the AC noise you say you found below 1Hz? Or was it above 1 Hz?
4. How many db attenuation did your circuit have for frequencies above 2 Hz?

I did not say anything about what you will find or anything to mod. I only asked those questions. Do you know the answers?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
why don't you ask Esteban... or Carlos... ?
They posted the schematic, not me.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

I asked you because only you are claiming this circuit does not work, not esteban. If it does not work, it also appears you know nothing about the noise you are finding, or else you could easily answer.

Since you have no answers, I can assume you are detecting noise at more than 1 Hz, and you do not have a low pass filter that stops it. At least I can assume that until you decide to do some actual observation of what you were detecting and make a report that the noise was not more than 1 Hz.

Best wishes,
J_p

[Tim Williams]

I asked Max questions also. He answered with a question. Enough said.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Tim Williams

I asked Max questions also. He answered with a question. Enough said.

I asked you if you are a seller/manifacturer of LRL:

you answered me with a question about dowsing !

I asked you if you are a dowser or not:

you answered me with a question about if I belive in GOD.

Say everything for me.

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I asked you because only you are claiming this circuit does not work, not esteban. If it does not work, it also appears you know nothing about the noise you are finding, or else you could easily answer.

Since you have no answers, I can assume you are detecting noise at more than 1 Hz, and you do not have a low pass filter that stops it. At least I can assume that until you decide to do some actual observation of what you were detecting and make a report that the noise was not more than 1 Hz.

Best wishes,
J_p

Hi JP,
"I asked you because only you are claiming this circuit does not work"

you are wrong... read the Zahori thread again and better next time.

Ivconic and Michael don't find their targets in tests like me.
Michael said that unit cannot detect water flows. Same as I've reported.

You're a bit confused... as always.

"Since you have no answers, I can assume you are detecting noise at more than 1 Hz, and you do not have a low pass filter that stops it."

Assume what you want. I've built what in schematic and doesn't work with water or metals. It was claimed finding water flows :

Nothing of nothing.

There isn't any reference to the need of making additional filter or other things. So what you're trying to say here ?

Maybe that I'm a newbie electronics guy and that's my fault if it doesn't work !?

Open the windows, there is smell of BS in your room.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi JP,
here is Ivconic report on result , with which I totally agree:

""Crack"hori....


Regarding to previous posts here on Zahori subject,also on Robert's,mine and
somebody's elses doubts, i decided to build it and test it. Although,i do not
beleive in such apparatus like Zahori,Mineoro etc. I simply could not continue
to talk here,maybe argue with some people here, without any practical experience
on that subject.So it is quite normal first to build it and test it and than to
switch on retorics. So, here is some of my notes on this Zahori subject:
First of all,i did'nt like idea on using 6x1.5v batt.'s at all. I changed that part
of schematic as follows on posted picture bellow. I respected Esteban's opinion
on not to use voltage regulators of 78xx type. Why Zahori refuses to act normal
when operating on that kind of power supply, i realy don't know, i never tested it
anyway.But using some op-amp to generate symetrical power supply from one 9V batt.
is more than good solution, it showed in many designs so far. So this supposed to be
only evasion from original schematic posted here.
So when i finished, packed it in a suitable box.On the front panel there are 3
potentiometers: "volume","sens" and "freq." As well as 2 operational switches and one
ON/OFF switch. I omited VU scale,respecting Esteban's hint too.
When switched ON, you can hear sound,loud and clear.When adjusting those pots. a
lot of strange sounds came out of apparatus.In some positions of pots. you can
acquire apparatus to stop "yelling". On the very edge of "crack and click" from the
speaker, when turning around,with antena pointing in some power source there is a
noticeable rising in tone and much louder "click" become "beep" and even "bleeep".
So there some "detection" IS going on for sure! When sight it to TV set,is detecting
it very noticeable even from the 6 meters distance!!!
Noticed even,when TV set is switched OFF but remain plugged in the wall socket, is still
detectable easy! But when tv is unplugged from wall socket, than no detection at all!
Same situation with all electronic apparatus in my house.
Step by step i have been tested and checked every situation and condition available on this
subject. I spent 3 days doing this. So now i am much,much more experienced when talking
on Zahori stuff. Of course, i did not have possibility to check it on some burried
treasure, 'cose still do not have any one around my house, but also checked it on my
test field in the backyard of my home.
NONE of the items in my test field( over 200 burried items,various depths,various
materials,various sizes and various time in gnd.-from 1 to 10 years as burried)
WAS DETECTED with this Zahori !!! Neither one detected item!!!
The very same situation and results as with my ionic detector!
I also noticed one very important thing! AC power sources and lines are very easy
detectable with Zahori.But DC power sources and lines are not, almost at all!
I also went outdoor near high voltage power line(10kV). Zahori detected it from the
80 meters distance, loud and clear !!! Also went deep in the mountain, far away from
any city noise and hum. Zahori remained silenced in 99%. On a few spots it produced
some very weak "click's", why ? I do not know, but i doubt that there is some treasure
in the ground there.
After all, what to say...? Now i am even more awared and sure that this kind of apparatus
are simply not suitable for any prospecting and relic/treasure hunting at all!
I knew that before, but wanted to make final step and build it, not just to rely my
claims on previous knowledge,science backuped facts and common sence.
The very same thing i commend to the others here.Just stop for a while with retorics.
Spend a few days,build it and test it.After that you gonna have your own experience.
Zahori is not non working joke.No, Zahori is working for real.It is detecting for real
AC sources on very respectable distances, depending of power and freq. of that source.
But it is not suitable for porspecting and as it is, this forum is just not the place
for this kind of apparatus at all. Only if somebody convince me here, that burried
treasure can produce AC charge...
Respecting the "ground battery" phenomena explained in some posts here, i think that it
has nothing related with zahori subject at all.
Of course, one more time, i would stay reserved off claiming things i never experienced
only focused on things i have been so far.
I had one mineoro on testing few months ago.The simillar behavior occured whit AC too.
I would say nothing much more on that subject due to avoiding any further argue here.
regards"

So are you still convinced that it works ?

BS.

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

and here is Michael's report after the field test, still I totally agree that device don't work, read:


Michael wrote
"
Hi to all. I fulfilled the zahori and took it for some test and searchings.
at first it's necessary for me thank to Esteban for his helps and favors to me, in fact without his meekly leadings I never could experience such a detector.
the results were;
1- it detects every electronic line or field very well.
with medium sensitivity it has no reaction for an off light ,but when turn it on gives signal at least from 4 meters. and detects a refrigerator plugged in switch from 6 meters.
2- In remote areas without any kind of manmade field, if you set in medium sens, works very stably and you can sweep very fast.
we swept many places that couldn't do by yesterday.
but by increasing sens will have many signals. the best length of antenna was 50-60 Cm. the best way to find out for best set is similar to mineoro by touching the antenna and hearing beeps then can adjust by sens and threshold volums.
I must confess that it was first time experienced such a reliable remote sensor.
we can call it a Conventional RS.
of course we found no metal object everywhere. Even when took it for our buried test target(60 cm x 40 cm x 30 cm metal box full of iron in 3 meters depth) never gave beep.
Only in one place (very near a big stone) we had suspicious beeps for every time and from every side we had a different singnal there. may be was from under the stone.
here was the place we had searched it befor by our PI but had no signal .
3- we had no signal for every kind of flowing water.in river or rivulet.
It's limitations:
1- It will be affected by wind seriously. in windy day working is impossible.(especially when wind speed is 30km/h and more)
2- even when you set in medium sens, you should stop and move device when walk or step, gives beep. the way is step, stop then move it and this reduce your speed, unless you search by low sens. I guess if it's able to detect a big long buried object, maximum distance won't be longer than 10 meters.
This 2 limitations worried me about mineoro LDLs; If those have such limitations?
Hung, Esteban, Mosha and others who have experienced mineoro, please inform me yes or no?
Can we tell Zahori is a shadow of mineoro?
By the way I have a short Wmv file of how zahori works. If anybody desire, I will send it for."

Still do you think that I'm the only that reported here that circuit doesn't work like claimed ?

It doesn't work with water !
It's a FACT. Just AC noise. Test yourself before saying BS.

Open the windows !

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi JP,
this is maybe also much more important to know who is lying here.

Hung's post about using Mineoro's from the car in motion ... cause he was talking about wind effects on device usability.

Read it.

BS. Every ignition spark in the engine would be detected by Mineoro's LRL.

All BS.

Everyone have used one could tell you that.
I haven't but people reported here that Mineoro's are really sensitive to AC noise, like all other startrek pistols, like the one I've built myself.

That's what is all this LRLs talking by these people.

A LONG TIME BURIED PILE OF BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi max,

I am not confused. I made no reference to old posts from Ivconic or Robert. This is your confusion. I asked only about what you posted la few hours ago. If you don't know what you posted or what I asked, I will paste it here for you:

Originally Posted by Max

I've followed the original schematic, no mods. It cannot find the water as said... I mean can't do it for rivers and other surface flowing water and also for underground flows, tested in 3 different places for underground water , 2 places have underground pipes with a constant flow of water inside, 1 is a natural underground flow of water of know origin (river).

Found absolutely nothing. No beeps at all in the 3 tests.

Of course, same for metals, even long time buried. Nothing.

In the same place I've tested it I found then after 3 ancient items using a VLF metal detector : 1 copper 18mm diameter, 2 bronze long shape.

Circuits of above serve nothing, don't work for water or metals, just find AC noise.

Your tricks won't work to pretend you did not say this a few hours ago. Also you still did not show you had the frequencies above 1 Hz attenuated. Therefore we can safely assume you did not. And in fact, you don't even know what frequency noise signals you were measuring as far as I can tell. Unless you have some real information to show what you measured instead of old posts from other people who did not have anyone asking if they looked for any ELF telluric currents below 1 Hz.

Can you tell us what frequency noise you measured? Do you have any clue? Are you now claiming you really do know what kind of noise you measured? If so tell us what frequencies they were. I don't believe you know.

I also don't think you know what questions I asked, even after I re-posted them to make it easy for you to see them. It appears you are very confused, to the point of not perceiving the words in front of you.

Your confusion about the questions I asked and about old posts from others makes me wonder if Nihil Roma Maius was correct when he said "Max loose clarity in mind." and when he said "I read something about "stressed". Did Nihil Roma Maius mean you need to take your medicine to regain clarity of mind?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi max,

I am not confused. I made no reference to old posts from Ivconic or Robert. This is your confusion. I asked only about what you posted la few hours ago. If you don't know what you posted or what I asked, I will paste it here for you:Your tricks won't work to pretend you did not say this a few hours ago. Also you still did not show you had the frequencies above 1 Hz attenuated. Therefore we can safely assume you did not. And in fact, you don't even know what frequency noise signals you were measuring as far as I can tell. Unless you have some real information to show what you measured instead of old posts from other people who did not have anyone asking if they looked for any ELF telluric currents below 1 Hz.

Can you tell us what frequency noise you measured? Do you have any clue? Are you now claiming you really do know what kind of noise you measured? If so tell us what frequencies they were. I don't believe you know.

I also don't think you know what questions I asked, even after I re-posted them to make it easy for you to see them. It appears you are very confused, to the point of not perceiving the words in front of you.

Your confusion about the questions I asked and about old posts from others makes me wonder if Nihil Roma Maius was correct when he said "Max loose clarity in mind." and when he said "I read something about "stressed". Did Nihil Roma Maius mean you need to take your medicine to regain clarity of mind?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
"Your tricks won't work to pretend you did not say this a few hours ago. "

NOW YOU ARE LYING HERE. I DON'T PRETEND OF CHANGING ANYTHING OF WHAT I'VE SAID.

You say that so you are a liar and a clown.

I've built myself, tested and find/got same results others posted in the zahori thread.

So what you want now ?

The frequency ? The filter ? BS.

The circuit doesn't work. What you want ???

You have no arguments now... that's the point... the thing doens't work and he would like to know if I have a 1Hz cutoff filter and other fantasies!

I PI$$ OFF YOUR STUPID QUESTIONS. ASK ESTEBAN HE POSTED IT HERE.

Maybe I'm stressed... who knows... but for sure I'M NOT A LIAR LIKE YOU.

LIAR AND CLOWN!

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

NOW YOU ARE LYING HERE. I DON'T PRETEND OF CHANGING ANYTHING OF WHAT I'VE SAID.

Again you are wrong. I never said you changed what you said. My words were "Your tricks won't work to pretend you did not say this a few hours ago." And what I said is true.

Instead of answering my questions about your original post a few hours ago, you decided to dredge up very old posts by others to show that the Zahori does not work, a question I never asked. Do you deny that you did this instead of answering my questions designed to learn whether you detected noise above or below 1 Hz?

The answer to my original question is simple. Either yes, above 1 Hz, no below 1 Hz, or I don't know. There was no need to divert attention to whether the Zahori works, and pretend I was asking for proof about that, because I did not. It is a cheap trick to try to make it appear I was asking this.

You are also wrong when you say you are not a liar. As I recall you posted that I said I have a working LRL. This is not something I said, yet you insisted I did even though you knew it was not true.

This forum is primarily to exchange information, not to obscure facts and spread false information.
It becomes easier to understand why people don't pay attention to what you say in this forum.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Hi Max

I see your signature at end of your text. Dr. House can't cure you because he is more crazy than his patients.

Best regards

Nihil Roma Maius

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Again you are wrong. I never said you changed what you said. My words were "Your tricks won't work to pretend you did not say this a few hours ago." And what I said is true.

Instead of answering my questions about your original post a few hours ago, you decided to dredge up very old posts by others to show that the Zahori does not work, a question I never asked. Do you deny that you did this instead of answering my questions designed to learn whether you detected noise above or below 1 Hz?

The answer to my original question is simple. Either yes, above 1 Hz, no below 1 Hz, or I don't know. There is no need to pretend I was asking if the zahori works, because I did not. It is a cheap trick to try to make it appear I was asking this.

You are also wrong when you say you are not a liar. As I recall you posted that I said I have a working LRL. This is not something I said, yet you insisted I did even though you knew it was not true.

This forum is primarily to exchange information, not to obscure facts and spread false information.
It becomes easier to see why people don't pay attention to what you say in this forum.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
you say a lot BS.

I confirm all I've said, also that you are a liar cause you said that
"Your tricks won't work to pretend you did not say this a few hours ago."

It's very clear to me. You are lying here.

Now you are trying to swap the story... no, no

I've explained myself to Quiaozhi that was my guess that you have a working LRL cause of your previous posts. Myself, do you remember ?

I've tested the device not under power lines like your stupid whole argumentation tend to demonstrate. Tested for water flows really far from any interference, ac fields, cars whatever on mountains, water pipes are in a field of a friend, no electricity water flows from a mountain lake just cause of gravity force, used in the below valley 3Km down.

There are just manual operated valves on the path, nothing electric, no noise at all.

Tested for natural underground water flow just few Kmeters away from there. Thermal activity, there are caves etc etc
Noise frequency means nothing if there isn't any noise source near.
First radio station is located at 160Km from there and is just 20w on short waves.

There isn't any reference to the need of additional filtering or other things on the article and schematics.

So, your questions have absolutely no meaning , device doesn't work detecting water, and end of the story.

Telluric currents yeah...

ALL BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by Nihil Roma Maius

Hi Max

I see your signature at end of your text. Dr. House can't cure you because he is more crazy than his patients.

Best regards

Nihil Roma Maius

You are already a proved clown!
No need to post for you again!

[Max]

Originally Posted by Nihil Roma Maius

Hi Max

I see your signature at end of your text. Dr. House can't cure you because he is more crazy than his patients.

Best regards

Nihil Roma Maius

Hi,
Nihil... now that I think about the picture of the clown... maybe you'll say that I've discriminated you cause I'm a racist !!!

So I have to post for you too !

You are a clown !

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

I'm the cure.