Magnacast 5000

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I
Yes, I do build my own Frequency Discriminators and build and sell them to other Treasure Hunters, on request.

Can you build us a test circuit like Carl so we can prove him wrong????????
I would be the first to post all on the circuits good or bad.

[Dell Winders]

NO! I said and meant exactly as I posted. "making it impractical for my use in 1988".

Is there not enough intelligent comprehension here to understand the english language without my having to repeat, or explain what I say? Dell

[Clondike Clad]

Ok i won't ask but you don't need to be hard on us.
People don't like the way you talk to them

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I purchased 2 of the Vernell, Forward Gauss instruments with electronic receivers and used them successfully from a boat, aircraft, and on land until operating conditions deteriorated affecting the reliability of the instrument making it impractical for my use in 1988.

It seems hard to guess what "operating conditions" deteriorated when Dell refuses to provide an answer. He has clarified that it was not practical to use in 1988, but we have no idea what operating conditions deteriorated, or when they deteriorated. They could have deteriorated gradually over a long period of time, or suddenly. We also don't know if the operating conditions recovered from their deteriorated state since that unknown time. "Operating conditions deteriorated" could mean any of the following:

*A period of solar flares or other atmospheric conditions changed resulting in unreliable performance.
*The device was struck by lightning, affecting the devices reliability.
*The device was rained on, affecting the devices reliability.
*Somebody dropped the device, affecting the devices reliability.
*The device was submerged, affecting the devices reliability.
*High temperatures caused the device to stop working properly.
*Excessive radio broadcast interference made the device unreliable.
*Interfering power lines were erected in the location where he wanted to use it.
*A severe storm developed at the location where he wanted to use it in 1988.

But more likely it was some other operating conditions that only Dell knows.

[svenax]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

NO! I said and meant exactly as I posted. "making it impractical for my use in 1988".

Well, ok, but why was it impractical? Nothing to do with the functioning of the device then?

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Is there not enough intelligent comprehension here to understand the english language without my having to repeat, or explain what I say?

You do realise that several of those who post here do not have English as first language, right?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Interesting idea. Do you suppose there are optics inside the "Scan Gun" receiving antenna that comes with the magnacast 5000?

I very much doubt there is anything of interest inside this unit.
It's tenuous relationship to Gauss is an insult to this eminent scientist.
By the way, you made a spelling mistake in your attached image. It should have said "Scam Gun".

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I very much doubt there is anything of interest inside this unit.
It's tenuous relationship to Gauss is an insult to this eminent scientist.

Actually, I have seen similar electronic "Gun" designs that do use optics. Automotive timing lights use a lens to focus a xenon flash tube light into a pseudo beam in front of the gun, using a very similar configuration to the "scan Gun". While it may appear to some the lens is also focusing some of the high voltage discharging in the xenon tube, I would disagree. But I think a lens would do a good job of focusing the light.

I wonder if you would find plastic castings inside the Scan Gun that were originally designed to mount timing light parts? Actually a close inspection of the photo shows what looks more like black PVC pipe parts glued together.

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by svenax

Well, ok, but why was it impractical? Nothing to do with the functioning of the device then?

You do realise that several of those who post here do not have English as first language, right?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''
Mr. Winders has also stated that he has only a 6th grade education.

Now I understand

[Mike(Mont)]

Look at what happens right about 1988.
http://helios.izmiran.troitsk.ru/cosray/months.htm

As for the Scan Gun antenna, I assume it is a coil similar to the VR2000. There is a photo of one on the Mexico Trip page http://www.lrlman.com

Carl, the download instructions on the VR site show how to test the unit.

[J_Player]

Interesting photos, Mike(Mont). After looking at the pictures of the magnacast 5000 and the VR 2000 Mexico trip pictures, It appears that the "Forward Gauss" machines are actually AM transmitters and special receiving antennas that locate places of varying signal strength. In addition to the scan gun, the VR 2000 and magnacast 5000 also contain a loop antenna which looks similar to the antennas used in radio direction finders. The loop antenna for the Magnacast 5000 is a larger rectangular antenna compared to the red square antenna shown on the VR 2000 photo.

From what I have seen in the photos and manual, it appears the "Forward Gauss" methods center around broadcasting an AM radio signal, then surveying the air out in front of the broadcast antenna for signal strength. Presumably, the signal will be stronger depending on the existence of a target in the ground. The two devices used to measure signal strength are the loop antenna, and the "Scan Gun". The loop antenna is probably a simple coil of wire designed to pick up the signal that was broadcast and allow a survey of where the strong signals areas are. The "Scan gun" does not give many clues just looking at it, but I would think maybe it works similar to a RF sniffer that is tuned to the broadcast frequency. Perhaps it performs a functions similar to the loop antenna, but with finer resolution, or maybe it is designed to pick up a RF signal that is to be demodulated.

[Dell Winders]

That would be my wild guess since many of the frequencies used for Frequency Discrimination are within the AM range. Dell

[J_Player]

A closer inspection of the "Forward Gauss" machines shows that the VR 2000 is not using a "Scan Gun" on its receiver, only a loop antenna to pick up the signal. The loop antenna on the magnacast 5000 is apparently the transmitting antenna, not to be used at the reciever for surveying the signal strength. I presume the VR 2000 also has a similar loop antenna for transmitting the signal.

It appears that in the magnacast 5000, the old receiving loop antenna of the VR 2000 was replaced with the "Scan Gun" receiving antenna that was made to be adjustable.

Judging from the use of the Vernell machines, I would suspect the broadcast frequencies to be at the AM broadcast band or lower.

[Mike(Mont)]

I'm still interested in any info people have about the Forward Gauss technology. The Vernell website says the original version was quite successful. I suspect there must be some improvements now with the Magnacast 5000 or else locating conditions are acceptable again?

BTW, I read on a Chinese website that the VR1000B uses 400-3000 Mhz so any AM reception would probably be some lower harmonics. I wonder if one of those spectrum analyzers could be used as a receiver for a DIY system? I guess you would need to know how to build the transmitting antenna or maybe use a walkie-talkie for the transmitter.

[J_Player]

400-3000 mhz is pretty much all of the UHF spectrum. Devices that use these frequencies include UHF television, cordless phones, amateur radio, mobile radios, radar, radio astronomy, cell phones, satellite radio, wireless LANs, and microwave ovens. The problem of building a receiver is you should first get an idea of the receiving frequency before constructing the circuitry and antennas. A quick test (if the actual frequency happens to fall in the UHF TV band), is to use an old-style portable UHF TV with an analog tuner to try to pick up the signal. If the VR1000B sends an AM signal in the UHF TY band, then you should be able to see some video patterns on the screen when you tune to the transmitter frequency. You may even be able to use this portable TV to survey relative signal strength in an area in front of the transmitter. But this works only if the transmitter is sending a frequency that the TV can receive.

Since the "Scan Gun" receiver is only used on the newer Magnacast 5000, I would think this locator uses a higher frequency than the earlier VR1000. The reason is because the "Scan Gun" is physically smaller than the large loop antenna used in the earlier machines, which leads me to suspect it contains a loop antenna to pick up a smaller wave, or higher frequency.

At this point, it may be a good idea to get some help from Carl to test and see what kind of signal the VR2000 puts out. ie: What frequency or frequencies, the radiated signal strength, and what sort of modulation. This information will provide good clues to what kind of receiving equipment would work best to pick up a signal from the transmitter. The antenna design and receiving electronics depends on what frequency, the transmitting technique, and the modulation being used. I would be particularly interested to know if there are any constant or varying lower frequencies being sent as an amplitude modulation signal, possibly in the 500 khz to 3 mhz range.

[Mike(Mont)]

Figured I ought to post this. I modified the Magnacast 5000 (VR5000) with a fine tuner on the RSL control. I used a 5K three-turn pot in line with the original 1M pot. This greatly improves the tuning but I wish I had gone with a 10K ten-turn. Now I can set the RSL as close as possible to threshold then fine tune it so it is slightly over threshold--one click per second is recommended. I could never come close to this previously. Either there was no clicking or clicking much too fast. From what I can see in the photos, the VR2000 uses the same receiver (not sure about this).

[ALEX.356]

A year and a half has passed, dear friends, and nobody is interested in this subject anymore ???
Nobody has purchased this contraption , and has no experience gained with it ???
Mike's last post is leting me believe that he owns one and tries to modify it , too.
BUT I would expect to read more about results obtained with it , performance , what the cost is e.t.c.

Kind regards,

Alex

[J_Player]

The Magnacast 5000 is sold at the Vernell Electronics website for $3350, but is on special sale for $1802.50: https://vernellelectronics.safenetse...TOKEN=90283851

Or you can buy one in Turkey for 4.150 EUR here: http://defineyurdu.alfahosting.org/i...=58&Itemid=123

Maybe there are no new posts about the Magnacast 5000 because nobody wanted to pay $1801.50 US or 4.150 EU to find out if they work or not.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

Hi Alex,

I saw your post but have been working long hours and not much time to reply.

The VR5000 Magnacast is a powerful unit. Maybe 50 or 100 times more powerful than the frequency generators I have used. The electronic reciever is fairly accurate, but L-rods are better for pinpointing. I found I can hold my arms out (parallel with the signal line) and feel it without even using the receiver. I first noticed this when using the receiver I would feel something similar to an electric current running through me (mainly in my hands). I haven't been out with it much but I did get out to a city park earlier this year and found a couple gold items.

Like any treasure hunting equipment, it takes practice to learn how to use it. I know some skeptics think they should be able to use one without any practice, but this is just due to their inflated ego. I spent quite a few hours learning. One thing about it is you can put a visible target out and work with it until you get it right but eventually you need to practice on a hidden target.

Probably the biggest down side to the unit besides being sensitive to interference is it takes quite a while for the signal line to develop enough for the electronic receiver to detect it. The instructions say to wait fifteen minutes after the power is turned on. If you know how to use L-rods, you can pick up the signal line MUCH quicker, like one minute.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Hi Alex,
If you know how to use L-rods, you can pick up the signal line MUCH quicker, like one minute.

Exactly how long does it take to "know how to use L-rods"?

What is involved in the "knowing process"?

How do you "know" when you have accomplished that level of knowing?

If you don't know how to use L-rods, will that keep the so-called signal lines from EVER materializing?

[Mike(Mont)]

Some people obviously NEVER learn to use L-rods. I would suggest an absolute minimum of forty hours, but more would be better. It's not a matter of being able to walk without the rods swinging back and forth, it's learning to feel what they are telling you and not having to think about it. Yes, it's the old "walking and chewing gum at the same time". Some skeptics really think they are above this but that's where the inflated ego shows it's ugly head. If you have a problem you need to admit it to yourself or you will never overcome it. Hard-core skepticism is a real mental disorder. I've said it before it is the difference between Heaven and Hell. You might think I am joking or exaggerating, but I couldn't be more serious.

As for the signal line developing, this has nothing to do with a person's ability to use L-rods. Someone who is skilled with the rods is going to be able to detect a signal line much sooner than with an electronic receiver.

Save you typing fingers because I will not be replying to any more skeptic garbage.

[Bill512]

Mike , finally at what range are the operating frequences of the Magnacast 5000? Looking the coil i assume that are at the audio range (or not?).

[Mike(Mont)]

Can't help you with that one, Bill. My frequency counter will not register, but an AM radio will pick up a tone that is obviously in the audio range. Quite a while back Dell talked about HID units operating in three different frequencies. I'd have to go back and check on it. I've seen ads from Asia that mention (pirated units?) 4-400 MHz and another mentions ultrasonic range.

"...The only instruments on the market that fully discriminate are the H.I.D. (Harmonic induction discrimination) These transmit & receive (3) timed, synchronized signals that respond to the Electron, Neutron, and Atomic Weight of the element. All other instruments on the market respond to the Electron only."

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

"...The only instruments on the market that fully discriminate are the H.I.D. (Harmonic induction discrimination) These transmit & receive (3) timed, synchronized signals that respond to the Electron, Neutron, and Atomic Weight of the element. All other instruments on the market respond to the Electron only."

Also known as "Continually Replenished Alternating Potential".

[ALEX.356]

Dear J Player and Mike,
thank you for your replies.
Mike, I notice that you have put quite an effort and time to learn your Magnacast 5000. May I ask: have you ever tried it on a big target at a serious distance away ??? say 300m. 500 m. ?

Have you felt the difference between a buried target and a visible metalic object on the ground [ say a car...] Does it respond to the unburied target as well...???

Your answer will be a great help, dear friend.

Kind regards,

Alex

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by ALEX.356

Dear J Player and Mike,
thank you for your replies.
Mike, I notice that you have put quite an effort and time to learn your Magnacast 5000. May I ask: have you ever tried it on a big target at a serious distance away ??? say 300m. 500 m. ?

Have you felt the difference between a buried target and a visible metalic object on the ground [ say a car...] Does it respond to the unburied target as well...???

Your answer will be a great help, dear friend.

Kind regards,

Alex

I have never used a Magnacast 5000.
I have no idea what a Magnacast 5000 does in the field.

My basis for determining what to expect from a Magnacast 5000 is seated in the reports I have read that describe the internal components. ie: An op amp without a power amplifier broadcasting an unknown frequency alleged to be in the UHF range, and a coil receiver used to survey a plot of land where a variety of specific metals might be buried.

From what I have learned, more broadcast power would be necessary, and a method of discriminating metals would also be necessary, which does not seem to be present in the electronics of the Magnacast 5000.

Based on pure interpretation of the advertising propaganda for the Magnacast 5000, I would speculate that at best, there exists a scanner chip in the circuitry that jumps to different frequencies, like to a broadcast scanner that will lock onto any strong signal as it scans, and hold that frequency until it becomes weak. Then it would jump to the next frequency until it finds another signal above the threshold. But I could be wrong about this. It is only speculation that they upgraded the 555 timer/oscillator to operate in a frequency scanning mode after the scanner chips became available for a cheap price.

The idea to actually test a Magnacast 5000 in the field seems to me like a waste of time for two reasons:

1. The people who manufacture the Magnacast 5000 (Vernell Electronics) has a long history of producing products that do not show substantial results for the people who use these products.* This means that people who use metal detectors are known to show recovered treasures in amounts that total thousands of times more than what users of Vernell Electronics products show.

2. The electronic circuits that have been shown from disected Vernell products appear to be extremely ameteurish in their design and in their construction. After seeing photos of the inside of a VR-800, I would not pay more than $20 US for any Vernell Electronics product. The only reason it may be worth $20 to me is for museum display value -- not to find treasure.

The simple answer to your question is no. I have not used the Magnacast 5000.

The more pertinent answer is:
If I believed that I could detect the location of hidden metals by broadcasting RF and surveying a field with a loop antenna, then I would build a viable RF transmitter that had a wide beam angle, and I would build a sensitive receiver with a suitable size receiver coil to survey the area where I thought the metal is hidden. Remember, the Vernell transmitters I have seen so far use a single op amp oscillator with the output pin connected to either a metal rod stuck in the ground, or a small antenna set on the ground.

If you thought this theory worked, wouldn't you prefer to use a real transmitter?


Best wishes,
J_P