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#151
02-23-2006, 05:43 PM
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Cost of Minero
My own preference is to keep this thread alive. It has good vibes, the submitters have been very constructive and not stabbing each other whenever views are different.
Beside, we don't really know if the Minero really works... and $8000 is a lot of money to dump for something that is outside of the norm in our current science paradigm. Also, I would rather we do the experiments ourselves, published results and learn learn learn. I would rather find a way around dumping 8 grand if we can figure out how to do it for a few hundred dollars or less. There is nothing wrong or illegal in duplicating a patent for personal use and you can't patent scientific principles. My current experiments didn't prove out with my current ion detector so I may upgrade it so its for ions only, not both ions and electrostatic fields. The Minero still looks like a scam to me but I am willing to do some testing. If you rich guys that bought a Minero would submit one for testing we could put a lot of this to bed. Goldfinder 
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#152
02-23-2006, 06:58 PM
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This thread is still alive. Only the section about the non-Mineoro ion detector construction has been moved. The results of Dell's preliminary testing are posted in the TA forum here: http://www.treasureamerica.com//phpb...?t=278&start=0
Dell is still testing and trying to learn why the new Mineoro machine does not perform as well as the other LRL brands that it was tested against. Apparently the Minero machine does work, but only under specific field conditions which are not necessary for the other models to work. Dell is looking to find some method or procedure that may have been omitted from the Minero instruction manual, which is necessary in order to make the Mineoro perform like the other LRLs. If you want to build an alternate design, then the negative ion detector design can be built for under $50 worth of electronic parts plus a salvaged radio antenna and aluminim dish. I moved that thread because it has nothing to do with reporting the results of the new Mineoro machines. It should be noted that any device that detects ions using the method of this electronic detector will by its nature of design also detect electrostatic fields and electrostatic frequenies in the audio spectrum if they are present in the vicinity of the dish. There is also a step-by-step plan for building a molecular frequency discriminating LRL by Carl here: http://www.thunting.com/cgi-bin/geot...mfd1/index.dat This MFD LRL costs even less than the negative ion detector (probably costs about $20 worth of electronic parts and plastic sprinkler pipe parts, plus a brass welding rod). The upper limit would be $50 as Carl stated, if you bought all the parts online and paid for shipping. I hesitate to build either of these designs or buy a Mineoro machine until I can understand the exact details of the principle on which these devices work. It seems to me that There are many modifications that could be easily made to the LRLs at very low cost which may greatly enhance their performance. But I have never had any LRL perform for me in a manner that showed me where any treasure is located. According to Dell, practical experience and knowledge of how to use a LRL is more important than the design of the machine for locating treasure. And Until I have some knowledge or experience that can lead to finding treasure with a LRL, I think I am wasting my time and money pursuing a LRL. See more on this in the new thread on Ivconic's ion detector.
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#153
02-23-2006, 11:22 PM
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I agree with JP, this is the wrong place to discuss building any type of equipment. I don't know but perhaps our most wonderful host "Carl the Munificent" (yup I'm kiss'n up) could start a thread with an appropriate title and move those posts relevent to that subject to it.
 
__________________
Dennis USAF Ret. "A liberal is man too broad-minded to take his own side in a quarrel." -- Robert Frost
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#154
05-09-2006, 11:06 PM
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Oye,oye, ionic chamber oya podrida blooorp!
ts,ts,ts !!!
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#155
05-09-2006, 11:07 PM
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oye,la oye...
...
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#156
05-09-2006, 11:11 PM
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now....
 No really..... this kind of claims and retorics is abusing,offencing my inteligence.... What man can do against it? Nothing much but play nonsence... Regards.... P.S. Clean this excell forum from lrl trash !!!
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#158
05-10-2006, 06:16 PM
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Struth Sundance. I would not like to run in to the bad guys in that town.
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#159
05-10-2006, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
 Some of it is in English (well - American slang anyway) and as for the rest of it, I can make an intelligent guess. Doesn't sound too complimentary to me  Michael - I believe it's supposed to be a joke against the Mineoro manufacturers 
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#160
05-11-2006, 06:52 AM
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Just a ...
Yes, it was just a joke....nothing else... All i can do against LRL pandemia is to jokin' regards... P.S. I am not one of them for sure! Besides i reside in Europe...and I am not English...
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#161
05-11-2006, 10:34 AM
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Please write rationally
robert! If you ridicule Long Range Detection, I can say you never know anything about it. the long range detection technique is real but the accuracy and precision of results differs from some to others.
Yesterday I talked to phone with a PDC 210 Owner he said had found many small targets not very deep but for every deep detection encountered to empety holes he thought this device is only for shallow targets, but I think it's pinpointing for deep targets has problem. some of them he had found; 1 gold coin at 30 cm, 5 gold coin at 70 cm and 3 golden earing at 150 cm depth. what's the truth???
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#162
05-11-2006, 12:14 PM
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There is so much posts about quite...nothing.
First the fundamentals of working, the basics of electronics and the construction quality are at least third world, third mind, level to say stupid. Second, it is a fraud to ask $ 8 K for a misery lyke this device. Third, the individuals that buy such a device, for that price, without taking any advice from a electronic engineer or other serious expert, are at last Christmas Father believers to say imatures. I beleave this forum is a open mind and for SERIOUS TECHNICAL questions not for pseudo-cience and gost believers. Good luck hunting
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#163
05-11-2006, 02:19 PM
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Eppur, si muove
Michael
Remember me the persons of the Medium Age. They had uniformity mind: "the Earth is square"... I'm happy because there are many persons wich never will see long range detection or semi-long range. TECHNICAL INFO. Work in this way: consider an electric field around the conductive target and you will advance very much.
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#164
05-11-2006, 08:30 PM
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Hi dear Esteban. nice to see your post again.
Francisco Xavier!! and robert!! The discussion is not for the price. the only important thing is the device could work appropriately now the electrical components cost 1$ or 1000000$. it is made of steel or plastic or is just a wooden twig. If can show the hot place, is approved. do you have anything ,any word to learn us? or you are like as many other men just can disquiet minds? don't close your eyes open your mouth or pen and shout OOOOHHHH people long range detection is fraudulence. why? have you done field tests? Do you claim you are an experienced man? do you have any new thing for us? (definitely documented) If yes, I will be your disciple. Do you have anything better than toys(conventional metal detectors) for us? A forum is a place for exchanging and sharing information and experiences not to deny or approve zealously a certain name, firm , a manner and etc. A forum is a place people learn from each other not to ridicule or humiliate each other. a forum like as this can progress our knowledge an abilities only when the members present their evident and honest founds. persons such as Dell Winders, Esteban , Hung and even Carl-NC. some people have statements and some other may have just a word, but sometimes that odd word is golden. I don't approve or deny mineoros and never know them. I live in Middle East and only looking for truth. One day you see Carl-NC claims mineoro 205 never works and disassembles it and says "It has nothing for these reasons don't waste your money for it". well, this is a high-worthy performance anyway he has done one thing and a motion like as self-sacrificing. but you, Francisco Xavier and robert!!, do you have like as this for us? If no, please don't give an injury to the way for reaching the truth.
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#165
05-12-2006, 12:42 AM
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Oye again...
 Michael, you can phone me and i'll tell you even more fantastic story about my finds. Francisco Xavier , good point ! I agree with you all! Esteban i do respect you ! With you i can talk even i do not aprove all your claims. "Do you have anything better than toys(conventional metal detectors) for us?" Michael are you martian !? "Toys", you said !!?? Those toys are only devices with wich you can find at least anything! I would like to have something better than ordinary metal detector in spirit of finding much more than i do.But all of you martians are holding secret just for yourself, we ordinary people are stuck to ordinary devices... About contributions here....This is only one thread in this forum, why do not you visit other threads and read at least something else than lrl.....Besides, the main contribution here is to stop naive people to waste money on trash! To explain to the people what is fraud and what is not. I have full right to claim my claims according to my experience, even to uncover and spitt on charlatans and mountebanks here.....Some of them are so agressive in "pushing" wrong ideas and lies here that it corrupt the whole concept of this excell forum. Being here,night by night, for me means a lot, to read and learn from the others,to download schematics,tips,hints, to comunicate with other people but when i see that somebody trying to "sell" nonsence to me and others than i have right to react. There are other forums on the .net, just for the lrl'sts. Why do you people have such strong need to come here and spoil everything. We (ordinary IB and PI "toy" lovers) do not coming to your forums and do not bug in your fairy tales. Esteban is a rare example of LRL'st i can talk and comunicate with, 'cose he is not agressive and not trying to press anybody with his ideas, although he acts like a human from time to time (ha,ha,ha....i remembered that donkey pic...). If you want to be heared, at least try to act like hi does. Keep up a good manners and you are welcome! Let me tell you something out of this dispute.... I do beleive that there is some way to detect remote object on some distance in some depth... I also beleive that there are people which have very developed mental capabillity to "fell" something, even, in most cases if they can't explain exact what. Also there are a small number of people who developed and trained even more their natural, borned with, capabilities and can "fell" and "see" almost exact situation on the remoted sight. Also there is a very small number of people who can predict the future or see in the past, etc.etc. History is full with such primers....But this is supposed to be a technical forum, with very exact science-supported facts. If somebody founded a coin in 2m depth with some LRL toy or even with mineoro, trust me he could find the same coin even if he holded a simple piece of wire in his hand. That coin is not credit of mineoro or any other nonsence device, that coin is a merit of natural skills of a person, himself ! That's why i am pissed off, people are confused. They are pushed to waste $xxx 000 on some rubish and fill somebody's pockets, and stay unawared of their skills, but strongly beleive in fraud they bought. Occasionally they find some coin or ring and even more hardly beleive in that nonsence device and nobody in this world can persuade them, any more in adversely !!! That is naked truth ! If you want to prospect as LRL'st, do not waste your money. Go outdoor and practice,improve your skills with some wire or some homemade odd.... Mineoro manufacturers noticed that feature of human mind, and got the idea how to make a lot of money for nothing! Like many others through history so far.... This is my explanation on that phenomena, and that i am trying to "push" here in everybody's mind. About posted picture, well i knew that it will **** off some people here. It was intended to do, although it was just a joke... Just read this one more time: "This whole subject is an excellent example of a phenomenon known as pathological science. Believers offer fantastic theories that are contrary to experience, and meet any criticism with ad hoc excuses. Such theories can easily be spotted as pathological, when only the believers can reproduce the results, and critics continually fail to duplicate the experiment. This does not mean that anybody is being purposely dishonest, but simply that people are tricked into believing false results by a lack of understanding. There are many published cases over the years that have attracted a great deal of attention, and sometimes many hundreds of papers have been published supporting the results. Some even lasted as long as 20 years before it was accepted that the results were caused by subjective effects, wishful thinking, or threshold interactions. Self-deception is a process by which we deceive ourselves into accepting something as true, when in fact it is based on a false idea. This is why scientists insist on clearly defined and controlled double-blind, randomized and repeatable tests. This is the only way to negate the wonderful ability of human beings to deceive themselves into believing things that are not true. "Our capacity for self-deception has no known limits." - Michael Novak QIAOZHI Nobody could write that better! At the end...Beleive what ever you want to beleive, nobody can forbid that to you.... But do not talk about it if you do not have any material proof....In that case you might easy became a victim of some "unsalted" joke....(see above)... All your(LRL'sts) proofs ends on retorics so far..... Bye,bye......
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#166
05-12-2006, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a powerful PI MD ;detects a 40 cm x 40 cm plate complete buried at 3 meters but had no success more than a jar full of silver powder (by help LRL + PI). And have field experiences with pulse star and Lorenz Deep max. many times they detect some stones which are not hot rock. And sometimes some kind of soils. The MDs like as whit's and Garret don't deserve to be discussed. We own Future Rover C but it is not satisfier as well. I read all of the threads and have experienced most of your founds by my flesh to bone. But the most important thing in treasure hunting world ( I name it sport and art) is scan speed the feature that every conventional metal detector is deprived of. We need a device be able to scan a vast and large area at the least time. What do you have to introduce here that we haven't experienced? Exactly nothing. But there is one thing I haven't had chance for test ;mineoro. And am desired to do it Then I appreciate every note about it. have you personally done it MR. Terrestrial! From your courtesy ( as name us martian) we can judge about your statements accuracy. Quote:
It will be appreciated at any time and god like these kind of people.I say seriously; don;t deprive us of your favors. Quote:
I think here is the remote sensing thread not pertaining to toy metal detectors. Then you are spoiling here by injecting your poisons and disquiet mindswithout any useful explanation.You trespass here , insult and do have claim upon us? Your tone inspire you are associated with metal detector corporation that has sensed danger from LRLs producers unless write rational and logical based on your experiences. I emphasize ; I am not LRLs proponent. I just look for fact. have you personally tested mineoro? If yes, which model, and what was results? If you know any special matter ,disclose it. you will make me and others pleasured. Quote:
it's completely right and not a new thing for us in middle east. I personally have passed many times with them and have experienced their ability. I believe in metaphysic much more than you. For this reason believe in some kind of science which is supreme of ordinary detection science(of course will be casted through a device) 
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#167
05-12-2006, 04:18 PM
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Who is the better witness?
Maybe, MD manufacturer.
Persons of the team involved in electronic long range metal detector for gold and silver who visit USA in the 80s refers me that they found a silver clock in the back part of Garrett's property in Texas, near a stream, in presence of the Garretts. What kind of object they found with UGLY electronic long range MD in Garrett's property? Coincidence?: A silver clock dedicated to Pat Garrett in 1902! And Garrett's manufacturer haven't family relationship with Pat Garrett. This was at depth wich a conventional MD can't detect it. Coincidence 2?: Garrett Metal Detectors, 1881 W. State St., Garland, TX 1881 (July) is the same year that Pat Garrett killed the famous outlaw Billy the Kid! The clock was dedicated by a town for Pat Garrett for his services. Also, Pat Garret served as sheriff of Dona (Doña) Ana County, New Mexico. I suspect this was the town of the dedicatory. Hope the major people who visit this forum know who was sheriff Pat Garrett. Also, ask how the team detect all targets like silver, gold and the big copper plate at high depth Garrett have for to probe two boxes. Ask Mr. Garrett —no me— about the real fact of long range MD ONLY FOR GOOD CONDUCTIVE METALS. Leave behind you the prejudices and accept the real fact. Many persons in this forum are shooting in any direction, no as Pat Garrett. Investigate and later discuss. The next days I'll sending more photos in Texas (80s).
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#168
05-13-2006, 12:12 AM
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Can't wait!!!
Mr. John Baldwin, British, sustain a coin. Miguel MontanÃ*a Grinok (my cousin) has in the hand a radiofrequency long range metal detector. This never detect bronze or copper in longitudinal form, only if this copper or bronze object is round like coin!!! Of course, yes very big copper or bronze objects, any form. Near for bronze and copper round forms, long distance for silver and gold, any form. Silver or gold round form, better! In the corner, in red circle, the year. The car plate is of Texas. Sorry for the unbelievers, no Cheeta, no Tarzan here, no "ugly persons", no Martians, no spirits, no ghost, no ancient echoes, no halo, no "Oye cómo va" (Santana's song), no pseudo-science, only science and "blondie persons" who celebrates one of the more 1,000 finds in the few days in USA. Salute!!!
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#169
05-13-2006, 01:02 AM
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If my memory serves me correctly, I think I know the Texan in the photo as being from from Grapevine,Texas, and at least part of the story of the instrument's use in the U.S. Dell
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#170
05-13-2006, 01:50 AM
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Howdy!!!
"...The MDs like as whit's and Garret don't deserve to be discussed..."
(White's.. man...and Garrett !!!) Now i am sure that you are martian !!! You must know some secret we others do not! I am having GTI2500 for over the 4 years,also Eagle IIic for over the 12 years..... now after reading your judgement about them i feel very sad....i am thinking to sell them....cose they don't deserve to be discussed....and all those Au,Ag and Cu old roman coins(over 3500 pieces) i have been found these years WITH tHEM i would consider as my dream or desert "fatamorgana"!!! "We own Future Rover C but it is not satisfier as well" At least on this i can agree with you....although WE own Voyager 2005 extreme and it sucks....so far! "I read all of the threads and have experienced most of your founds by my flesh to bone" I do not think so, after reading your claims! If that so, than you are very rich man... "We need a device be able to scan a vast and large area at the least time." Only if you are in a big hurry !!! I do consider this matter as a hobby not as a rally! "What do you have to introduce here that we haven't experienced? Exactly nothing" Ha,ha,ha....do not be such antediluvian.Nobody would talk with you any more, with that kind of attitude...besides,if you are such expirienced, than,what the hell, are you doing here!!!???Why asking so many questions!?? "But there is one thing I haven't had chance for test ;mineoro. And am desired to do it" Fine by me.Go and buy it! I salute to that.You deserve it 100%...(oye,oye !!!) "You trespass here , insult and do have claim upon us?" Upon you !? Never! Upon mineoro and other mountebanks....always!!!! Truth is insulting you!? O.K. from now on, no more truth here! "Your tone inspire you are associated with metal detector corporation that has sensed danger from LRLs producers unless write rational and logical based on your experiences." Ha,ha,ha....no such corporation(that sensed danger from LRL)....from the oder hand i am associated with a few metal detector manufacturers for lifetime, simply it is my choice. "I emphasize ; I am not LRLs proponent. I just look for fact." Me too.But i am ready to express my attitude free, with no scrupule,no matter what other people thinking.Facts you not gonna find in LRL retorics. "have you personally tested mineoro? If yes, which model, and what was results? If you know any special matter ,disclose it. you will make me and others pleasured" Yes.FG78.I...it sucks!It is scum,trash,fraud,toy.Is this enough to you?I think that there is no need for me to bug you with details... It's "beeping" from time to time in all directions, no matter if there is any metal or not.It was tested for over the 2 months in all posiblle conditions and... nothing. After that it was returned to dork who spent money on it !!! Carl did nice report here, you just have to read it. No need for me to write another simillar report.I made some claims in my earlier posts,for those who know to read it was enough! If i have to repeat everything, every week, again and again.....well, than i am not gonna waste my time any more.Just buy some Mineoro and have your own,personal experience.You deserve it for sure! "I believe in metaphysic much more than you." WHAT'S MAKE YOU THINK THAT I AM !!!??? I do not beleive in metaphysic at all! I am the greatest skeptic on the world! Good bye Michael! The very best regards! .................................................. ................................... Esteban...hi ! Yor story is nice. You are fair player, i do not have to check any of those you posted. I am absolutelly sure that you are true beleiver in everything you said! But it does not show that Garrett metal detectors are bad...It has nothing to do with any of Garrett metal detector at all! Pat Garrett was not fair player.He was scum.He killed Billy the Kid from the back,by night! If you are interested on coincedences than you may find a millions of them on the .net . Besides, any body who is prospecting with some LRL toy is meeting coincedences from time to time (although not very often...ha,ha,ha). best regards to you.... .................................................. ..................................... Now, generally...for all... People, think what ever you want to think.If you have doubts about my claims here,then the best way is to have your own experience. If you are expecting some sweet fairy tales than you are on wrong place. When somebody claim that LRL is trash, you get angry on him, but from the other hand you do not want to spend your own money,buy some LRL device and test it.You are expecting somebody else to do that for you and to report you just good news.Grow up ! I was interested in many things. I spent a lot of money on devices. I do have over the 11-12 devices now, at home.(Just look at Carl's collection here....what do you think: how much money he spend so far? Try to respect that and his posts....think about that!) I have found many coins,relics and other stuff during last 15 years. I earn a lot of money selling that founds. That is the only philosophy i know. If you want something, you have to pay for it. Here, on this excell forum you can have much informations for free. If you are not respecting that fact than you deserve to became another victim of fraud.Nobody pushing me or any body else here to give advices and informations free.It is only a good will. best regards and much finds !!! P.S. No more blah,blah from me here....next time only jokes and pics on charlatans,frauds and dorks account... ....until administrator excommunicate me from here...(well...that's life...)
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#171
05-13-2006, 02:06 AM
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Aren't bad!!!
Garrett, White's, Fisher, Minelab, Tesoro and all famous brand are good detectors, the point is that this radiofrequency type machine detects at depth that conventional MD can't detect...
Also I have White's, Garrett, Fisher and another good detectors. ********* Dell: I'll investigate the location, but I'm semi-shure was in Galveston.
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#172
05-13-2006, 05:47 AM
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I read these posts, and I agree that maybe these LRL detectors can work. Also, Robert has made statements that do not add anything of value to this thread except one thing. He says he does not believe the LRL will work and it is a fraud. I see no proof behind what Robert says. It sounds like he is speaking from his own personal experience that he did not find treasure with a LRL machine.
But I have to say one thing in defense of the position that Robert established. So far, I have found NOBODY on this earth who is willing to demonstrate a Mineoro machine locating treasure, or any other LRL machine finding treasure. NOBODY on earth! If Mineoro can find treasure, then why won't anybody demonstrate it working? All I hear is stories of how it found treasure in the past. Why not show it find treasure NOW so the non-believers can see with their own eyes? Are the non-believers are right? Is it true that nobody on earth will show the Mineoro find treasure because the Mineoro does not really work and is a fraud? Is anybody willing to show us a Mineoro machine work so we can see?
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#173
05-13-2006, 05:57 AM
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The location could be anywhere, I don't know.I was just commenting that I believe I have known, and treasure hunted with two persons in the photo. If my memory is correct the person in the hat is Virgil Williams, who lived in Grapevine, Texas at the time. Dell
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#174
05-13-2006, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
These types of locators detect the emenating "Field" that concentrates around a target, and it is the "Field" which is detected at, or above the surface of the ground. NOT the physical target. For a number of geological reasons the "Field" of a target may never reach the surface, or even near surface where it can be detected in this manner, whether you are metering the "Field" electronically, or with a simple pair of Dowsing Rods. In addition, a detectable target "Field" DOES NOT necessarily rise (our perspective) vertically straight up from the target. Quite often the "Field" will rise at an angle. Making a location at the surface of the ground DOES NOT MEAN a target is buried directly below. According to the depth of the physical target, and the angle of the rising "Field" the surface location can be many feet away from the actual target. There are excavation proceedures I use to pinpoint the physical target. I hope this helps to point a direction for your R&D. I won't be posting much for awhile. I have been down with the flu for a month and behind on orders. Robert & Jim, You appear to be among the folks that believe they already know everything there is to know about Earth Science and Physics, so I apologize if my rhetoric is boring to you. But, ceartainly you are intelligent enough to understand that "WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE". Dell
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#175
05-13-2006, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Dear Esteban thank you for your statements and attachment. your and dell answers was irrecusable. please continue to enclose these documents. Quote:
Quote:
oh, by the way I forgot, you search for little things like as a semi-cion, etc, but in middle east we search for large treasures (like as 3 jar full of coins) in great depth. then you are right garrett arnd white's are the best there for you. Quote:
I am telling the conventional detectors are not satisfiable for our purposes.Quote:
completed Fg78 will be released and delivered after may 15th. How can rely on your claims??? hum??   2- You are the man names scum, martian,...who don't coincid their ideas with you. this is all thing you have present. every rational spectism is appreciated not insulting others. Quote:
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