ραβδοσκοπια με χερι (Hand Dowsing)

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Since so many people use mineoros arround the world we must put down which are the best conditions for these machines to achieve maximum performance.
May be we should do the same whith other LRLs widely used.
This of course has nothing to do whith this theme(sorry taxma) so a better idea is to open another one but inside the remote sensing forum whith the experienced people sharing their knowledge regarding limitations when using LRLs.

Hi g-sani,
We already have a place in remote sensing forum to tell what performance you find from Mineoro in different conditions here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16967
You can post your observations of the Mineoro performance, and also tell what location you tested the Mineoro, and what weather conditions.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Originally Posted by hung

It surprises me that you seem to know very little about Mineoros after all these years.
I have even comented this with your compatriot in an email.

As far as I know, you have never owned one yourself. You had only experience with it through someone else's, right?
So some deductions are not accurate.
Actually detection is stronger in mountains, forrests and farms than it is at the beach, except at sea due to intense ionization.
I use these devices for 6 years now and I think I have a little bit of experience to talk about don't you think?

Also, the Mineoro findings at the beach video were well far from the factory and in a day of real weak ionic fields. The range was only 2 meters for a good signal. I have all the details now as I talked to people there.

I just asked if you know the person in the video link I posted.
But you did not reply.

First, to reply to your question, No he is not my friend and i don't know him.
Now about Mineoro, i was owner of a PDC210-Super for one year. So some deductions are accurate. If detection of Mineoro is stronger at mountains then this is worst for Mineoro because i made all my tests and hunting at mountains... but nothing. I tried it at my Lab and i saw what is happening.

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi g-sani,
We already have a place in remote sensing forum to tell what performance you find from Mineoro in different conditions here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16967
You can post your observations of the Mineoro performance, and also tell what location you tested the Mineoro, and what weather conditions.

Best wishes,
J_P

Thank you J_P I never noticed that.
I heard a story once that there was a guy in Athens a few years back that he had an instrument measuring some factors every time before using his moneoro.
When I said that maybe he was measuring humidity the guy telling me the story said that first he thought the same but the owner answered that he was checking other values.
What else would you think that be?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Thank you J_P I never noticed that.
I heard a story once that there was a guy in Athens a few years back that he had an instrument measuring some factors every time before using his moneoro.
When I said that maybe he was measuring humidity the guy telling me the story said that first he thought the same but the owner answered that he was checking other values.
What else would you think that be?

Hi g-sani,
I don't know what a guy in Athens was measuring before using his Mineoro. From what I hear from the Mineoro factory, the important things to measure are the humidity and the static charge in the air where you are testing the LRL.

If I was testing a Mineoro LRL, I would record a number of other things:
1. Date and time
2. Location of the test field including altitude.
3. Distance from buildings and power lines etc.
4. Atmospheric charge
5. weather - temperature, humidity, clouds etc.
6. Earth magnetic field strength at the test location.

I guess if you owned a Mineoro for a year like Geo and Michael, and you could never detect any treasure, then all the extra data is not important. You would have enough time to test and to learn that it does not work in any conditions before you sell it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi g-sani,
I don't know what a guy in Athens was measuring before using his Mineoro. From what I hear from the Mineoro factory, the important things to measure are the humidity and the static charge in the air where you are testing the LRL.

If I was testing a Mineoro LRL, I would record a number of other things:
1. Date and time
2. Location of the test field including altitude.
3. Distance from buildings and power lines etc.
4. Atmospheric charge
5. weather - temperature, humidity, clouds etc.
6. Earth magnetic field strength at the test location.

I guess if you owned a Mineoro for a year like Geo and Michael, and you could never detect any treasure, then all the extra data is not important. You would have enough time to test and to learn that it does not work in any conditions before you sell it.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P,
As soon as I have one I am going to test it in an exact place(treasure is hiden there) but as you say in different days or in different weather conditions.
Then I will try to repeat it in some other place where a treasure lies again everytime having different conditions.
If it will fail twice then I can say that it is not working.
Regards,
g-sani

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Hi J_P,
As soon as I have one I am going to test it in an exact place(treasure is hiden there) but as you say in different days or in different weather conditions.
Then I will try to repeat it in some other place where a treasure lies again everytime having different conditions.
If it will fail twice then I can say that it is not working.
Regards,
g-sani

Hi g-sani,

If you know a place where treasure was buried for a long time, then this is a very good location to test any LRL.
You must not dig the treasure because when you dig it, then it will no longer be long time buried.
You can verify the treasure is there with a metal detector if it is not too deep.

Long time buried treasure is the best test of any LRL. This is what most LRLs are claimed to find.
The reason why people cannot test LRLs to find long time buried treasure is because they don't know where to find long time buried treasure.
But if you are certain of your location for long time buried treasure, then you can use this location to test for Mineoro, for dowsing, and for all other LRLs, even to see if a radio can detect the treasure.
You can compare to see how Mineoro performs next to other long range locating methods.

You will be wise to test on different days with different weather conditions. Also there is another condition you can check which I forgot to put on my list...
7. You can record the solar wind and sunspot activity for today from websites like these:
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/spaceweather/
http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/SWN/

You will see that the solar conditions will cause changes also in the earth's magnetic field where you are testing, and could have electrostatic influences.
Geomagnetic storms, solar radiation storms, and radio blackout levels could influence the earth's signals as well as change the noise levels in the air.
And it is important to record the time of day when you are testing.
The daily solar cycle will cause conditions to change at different times of the day for atmospheric electrostatic charge and for RF noise.
This could be important when you are using a broadband receiver LRL that is observed to detect static.

To me, all these things from my list could be checked. But the Mineoro factory says only the humidity should be checked.
They say 10% to 30% relative humidity is the optimum for finding treasure, and 31% to 55% humidity is good for finding treasure, with only small loss of distance.
See here for the Mineoro idea of how humidity is important: http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/humidity.php

You will see that in the case of Mineoro, they say their locators will detect only gold, even when there are other metals nearby. http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/diference.php
This means your treasure must be gold, or Mineoro will not detect it. (According to Mineoro propaganda, their detector with classifier will not beep next to large piece of iron or copper. will only beep if gold is near). http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/diference.php

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
How Mineoro can locate only gold the time who detects any rf signal?????
As you saw at the schematic of FG79 it is a very simlpe passive receiver.

Regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
How Mineoro can locate only gold the time who detects any rf signal?????
As you saw at the schematic of FG79 it is a very simlpe passive receiver.

Regards

Heheheee...

Yes, a simple broadband receiver.
But...
Don't forget the 10Hz pulsed gold classifier signal from the ion chamber!
Does this signal cause the receiver to ignore all RF noise and only hear golden Romeo and Juliet love ions destroying themselves?
Is this how the Mineoro LRL works to find gold?

I guess your testing shows it does not find gold ...
(Maybe the BC548 transistor is not fast enough to really detect femto or atto second pulses from crashing gold ions).
Or.... maybe there are no crashing gold ions in the ion chamber...
Only a passive broadband receiver with a single turn loop?



Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi g-sani,

If you know a place where treasure was buried for a long time, then this is a very good location to test any LRL.
You must not dig the treasure because when you dig it, then it will no longer be long time buried.
You can verify the treasure is there with a metal detector if it is not too deep.

Long time buried treasure is the best test of any LRL. This is what most LRLs are claimed to find.
The reason why people cannot test LRLs to find long time buried treasure is because they don't know where to find long time buried treasure.
But if you are certain of your location for long time buried treasure, then you can use this location to test for Mineoro, for dowsing, and for all other LRLs, even to see if a radio can detect the treasure.
You can compare to see how Mineoro performs next to other long range locating methods.

You will be wise to test on different days with different weather conditions. Also there is another condition you can check which I forgot to put on my list...
7. You can record the solar wind and sunspot activity for today from websites like these:
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/spaceweather/
http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/SWN/

You will see that the solar conditions will cause changes also in the earth's magnetic field where you are testing, and could have electrostatic influences.
Geomagnetic storms, solar radiation storms, and radio blackout levels could influence the earth's signals as well as change the noise levels in the air.
And it is important to record the time of day when you are testing.
The daily solar cycle will cause conditions to change at different times of the day for atmospheric electrostatic charge and for RF noise.
This could be important when you are using a broadband receiver LRL that is observed to detect static.

To me, all these things from my list could be checked. But the Mineoro factory says only the humidity should be checked.
They say 10% to 30% relative humidity is the optimum for finding treasure, and 31% to 55% humidity is good for finding treasure, with only small loss of distance.
See here for the Mineoro idea of how humidity is important: http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/humidity.php

You will see that in the case of Mineoro, they say their locators will detect only gold, even when there are other metals nearby. http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/diference.php
This means your treasure must be gold, or Mineoro will not detect it. (According to Mineoro propaganda, their detector with classifier will not beep next to large piece of iron or copper. will only beep if gold is near). http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/diference.php

Best wishes,
J_P

Hallo J_P,
Do you know if there is an all in one instrument that can measure the least important from all those parameters;
Probably you are right and solar activity also affects the results when trying to find treasure whith something like mineoro.It affects the earth's electromagnetic field and this goes whith everything included to it like anomalies for example.
But may is better if we can focus to some of these parameters that are much more important than others.
It is very logical to take as much as you can in account when you want to go deeper in your study which of course results to your search as well.
If I could dig those treasures J_P never mind to use them for LRL testing.But if somebody wants real time testing for LRLs then he has to know such a place otherwise is going always to be assumptions and nothing else.
Many regards
g-sani

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Hallo J_P,
Do you know if there is an all in one instrument that can measure the least important from all those parameters;
Probably you are right and solar activity also affects the results when trying to find treasure whith something like mineoro.It affects the earth's electromagnetic field and this goes whith everything included to it like anomalies for example.
But may is better if we can focus to some of these parameters that are much more important than others.
It is very logical to take as much as you can in account when you want to go deeper in your study which of course results to your search as well.
If I could dig those treasures J_P never mind to use them for LRL testing.But if somebody wants real time testing for LRLs then he has to know such a place otherwise is going always to be assumptions and nothing else.
Many regards
g-sani

Hi g-sani,

The important parameters will depend on what the detector is designed to detect.
In the case of conventional metal detectors, we know the most important parameter is the ground you are searching in. If you search dry sand, you have better results than if you search in highly mineralized soil that is wet with ocean water. But with LRLs, nobody knows exactly what they are designed to detect. We only know they are claimed to find "the phenomenon". And nobody has defined exactly what "the phenomenon" is.

So how can we know the most important parameters for LRLs?
I can think of thee ways to know:
1. Ask the manufacturer what their LRL detects and what is the most important parameters.
2. Examine the circuits to see what the electronics are designed to do.
3. Read the reports from users of the LRL to see what they detected, and what parameters changed the detection.

In the case of Mineoro, the manufacturer says their LRLs detect static electricity "ionic crashes". This sounds like they mean electrostatic sparks that come from gold ions becoming neutral gold molecules. Mineoro sells a digital hygrometer to measure the relative humidity of the air, because they say the humidity is important. If we believe the Mineoro propaganda, then it would be important to measure the earth's electrostatic field in the air where you are using the Mineoro locator. The weather and humidity contributes to reducing the electrostatic field strength, but the final parameter is only the electrostatic field strength in the air if it is detecting static electricity. This is what I would measure if I believed the Mineoro propaganda. But should we believe the Mineoro propaganda?

We can see the Mineoro LRL circuits are actually broadband receivers with a secondary circuit that includes a fake ion chamber.
This ion chamber cannot pass any signal to the receiver because the impedance is mismatched.
If we believe what we see in the circuit board, then we will know this broadband receiver does not have an oscillator to broadcast a TX signal.
It appears to be a radio that is not tuned to any particular station... it appears to be detecting broadband RF and electronic noise.
If we go by what we see in the circuit, then the important parameter would be that there is not a lot of radio noise in the air, and not a lot of sparks that are from sources that are not related to treasure. But when we look at the circuit, we see it has no way to detect gold, it can only detect broadband RF and RF noise.

If we look at what parameters other people reported, we see most people say the Mineoro LRLs do not work to find treasures. The reports from most people who used Mineoros say it does not work for finding gold, but it will detect many RF frequencies from a signal generator, and it will detect sparks made from shorting a battery in the air. For treasure hunting, most people report Mineoro does not work at all. It only makes random beeping. But some people report that it works only on lucky days, or only for very short distance. Then we read a few reports that the Mineoro works well from people who live close to the Mineoro factory, or are friends with people who work at the Mineoro factory. But the people who report the Mineoro does not work at all are people who are far away from the Mineoro factory.

When I read all the forum posts for Mineoro performance, I can see a pattern that shows the Mineoro will only work well for people close to the Mineoro factory, or for people who are friends of workers at the Mineoro factory.
This would lead me to believe the most important parameter for Mineoro is to determine how much distance between you and the Mineoro factory test field.
(For Athens, Greece, the distance is 10,524 km --- not good).
Better if you live in central Brazil, or maybe if you become very good friends with the people who work at the Mineoro factory.
If not, then maybe Mineoro will not work for you same as it did not work for other people away from the factory demonstration fields.

Instead of spending thousands of euros for Mineoro, maybe it is better to spend few hundred euros for good fishing equipment and then go fishing.
There is still no guarantee for finding fish, but the hunting is more fun.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

Hi J_P,
I really laughed whith that sentence of yours:
.....This would lead me to believe the most important parameter for Mineoro is to determine how much distance between you and the Mineoro factory test field.
And then I had this briliant thought.
Mineoro should charge for their LRL detectors according to distance from their factory.
The more the distance the lower the price it should be.


Tomorow I planed to go for trout fishing J_P.We have a bit of snow in my place this time of the year and it is a bit chilly as well.Very good conditions for those bigger trouts. Spinning is my favourite and mepps my favourite spinner.
Last month I also ordered an ugartechea side by side shotgun.This is what I have ordered. http://www.sidebysideshotgun.com/aoc_sidelock.html
You see I like a lot walking up in the mountains and I thought that when fishing period ends hunting still going so I will have another reason walking out in nature.
So I decided to become a Hunter as well J_P.
Many regards
g-sani

[Geo]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Hi J_P,
I really laughed whith that sentence of yours:
.....This would lead me to believe the most important parameter for Mineoro is to determine how much distance between you and the Mineoro factory test field.
And then I had this briliant thought.
Mineoro should charge for their LRL detectors according to distance from their factory.
The more the distance the lower the price it should be.


Tomorow I planed to go for trout fishing J_P.We have a bit of snow in my place this time of the year and it is a bit chilly as well.Very good conditions for those bigger trouts. Spinning is my favourite and mepps my favourite spinner.
Last month I also ordered an ugartechea side by side shotgun.This is what I have ordered. http://www.sidebysideshotgun.com/aoc_sidelock.html
You see I like a lot walking up in the mountains and I thought that when fishing period ends hunting still going so I will have another reason walking out in nature.
So I decided to become a Hunter as well J_P.
Many regards
g-sani

Μεχρι τωρα ειχαμε την παροιμια για το ψαρεμα τωρα θα βαλουμε και για το κυνηγι.
Ξερεις.. δεν γα.... που δεν γα.... δεν παμε για κανενα ψαρεμα
Sorry for Hellas language but it is something "personal"

Regards

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by Geo

Μεχρι τωρα ειχαμε την παροιμια για το ψαρεμα τωρα θα βαλουμε και για το κυνηγι.
Ξερεις.. δεν γα.... που δεν γα.... δεν παμε για κανενα ψαρεμα
Sorry for Hellas language but it is something "personal"

Regards

Geo..., Geo..., don't forget that hunting is also the best undercover for Treasure Hunting.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Hi J_P,
I really laughed whith that sentence of yours:
.....This would lead me to believe the most important parameter for Mineoro is to determine how much distance between you and the Mineoro factory test field.
And then I had this briliant thought.
Mineoro should charge for their LRL detectors according to distance from their factory.
The more the distance the lower the price it should be.


Tomorow I planed to go for trout fishing J_P.We have a bit of snow in my place this time of the year and it is a bit chilly as well.Very good conditions for those bigger trouts. Spinning is my favourite and mepps my favourite spinner.
Last month I also ordered an ugartechea side by side shotgun.This is what I have ordered. http://www.sidebysideshotgun.com/aoc_sidelock.html
You see I like a lot walking up in the mountains and I thought that when fishing period ends hunting still going so I will have another reason walking out in nature.
So I decided to become a Hunter as well J_P.
Many regards
g-sani

Hello hunter

After finish the project,not forget to buy wood box in chinese house,to put the electronic circuit,becouse plastic box not good for this project.

Regards

BTW.not buy expensive LRL´s,build yourself and test them,this is the best way.

[g-sani]

Muito obrigado pela sua advertência Morgan.

[detectoman]

g-sani say: morgan: i appreciate your advertismments

[g-sani]

Yes detectoman, may be I should say
Muito obrigado pela sua aconselhamento Morgan.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Yes detectoman, may be I should say
Muito obrigado pela sua aconselhamento Morgan.

Agora com esta informação espero que consiga construir o MINI ZAHORI.
Qualquer dificuldade eu posso ajudar.

Até breve

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Agora com esta informação espero que consiga construir o MINI ZAHORI.
Qualquer dificuldade eu posso ajudar.

Até breve

I think I got it right.
Thank you very much Morgan, please give me some time to build the cct.
Regards
g-sani