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#126
11-29-2010, 12:51 AM
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Now seriously Aziz,
You are one person I do respect here for your technical knowledge. Sorry for the jokes, but I could not resist.
__________________
"Should exist injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll show up to debunker the big mouths" 
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#127
11-29-2010, 12:57 AM
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All I can say you is the following: "Crime does not pay!" End of the story. I have said enough now. Last edited by Carl-NC; 12-03-2010 at 06:31 AM. Reason: Language
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#128
11-29-2010, 12:58 AM
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~AZIZ~
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#129
11-29-2010, 12:58 AM
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hung cannot resist the temptation to joke about his lies?  Best wishes, J_P
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#131
11-29-2010, 01:02 AM
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Eventually you will wake up. If you really build things as I think you do, it may last years but someday you will hit the jackpot. You only need to never lock the door to knowledge. Because if you do my friend, you will die with no acomplishments. You may return to your coils forum.
__________________
"Should exist injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll show up to debunker the big mouths" Last edited by Carl-NC; 12-03-2010 at 06:32 AM. Reason: Language
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#132
11-29-2010, 01:08 AM
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Yes Arthur, that's what everybody here would like to see - one of these things actually perform and find something ... ... but we never will. *Note - your laughable videos hardly count. (well, maybe for Hung, they do)
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#133
11-29-2010, 01:12 AM
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#134
11-29-2010, 01:19 AM
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Some observations and suggestions:
1. For Art... Go home. Take a class in forum-101 to learn how to link posts to your post. Ask a scientist how a double blind test works. Meditate and think about things for a few weeks. Then come back here if you think you have a clue how to show how well your dowsing works. 2. For hung... Go home. Don't take any classes that teach anything technical... this could be dangerous for you. Hang out with your like-minded friends to bolster your beliefs and ego. Go to Tnet where your diatribe is well received. 3. For skeptics... Ignore stupid ramblings of idiots who claim to have dowsing abilities but refuse to show them in front of skeptical witnesses. Petition Carl to remove these stupid ramblings to a new thread titled "stupid dowsing idiocy" Best wishes, J_P
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#135
11-29-2010, 01:28 AM
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"The door to Knowledge & Understanding, is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind”
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#136
11-29-2010, 01:29 AM
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#137
11-29-2010, 01:41 AM
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in a thread called "stupid dowsing idiocy" ... Not in a thread called "H3Tec Challenge" where we wait anxiously to read the latest developments in the matter of H3Tec vs. Carl-NC. Think about it.... when you come to Geotech and you see a forum thread that says H3Tec Challenge.. do you expect to read about fake dowsing or about H3Tec news? I don't know about you, but I think I would expect to read something about H3Tec, not a bunch of crappy dowsing whiners. BTW, the H3Tec news is kinda interesting.... H3Tec is taking up where DKL and Quadro tracker left off. Maybe they will actually hire an attorney... It will be like the superbowl of LRLs..! Let the dowsing whiners cry in their idiots thread while we watch the real news that they try to conceal with their forum flooding. Best wishes, J_P
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#138
11-29-2010, 01:47 AM
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Petition Carl to remove these stupid ramblings to a new thread titled "stupid dowsing idiocy" I am here to discuss the H3Tec LRL. You keep referring to Dowsing and not the electronic device…I have never saw a electronic dowsing Rod so you posts make no sense at all…Art 5160 LRL and MFD users will go into the field and enjoy their hobby… Soon to be 8000 then 15,000 and then even more And Millions of Dowsers will also be in the field
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#139
11-29-2010, 01:52 AM
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I don't know what your post means, but I have a feeling you would do well to take a class in forum-101 to learn how to make your idea known when you post it. See suggestion here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=185 Best wishes, J_P
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#141
11-29-2010, 02:17 AM
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Nano-dowsing technology -- the thread! what dowser could resist? Best wishes, J_P
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#142
11-29-2010, 02:51 AM
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#145
11-29-2010, 09:32 AM
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Really?  It seems you are only here to present your own brand of nonsense. Quote:
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Now please attempt to do the following:
Message from TreasureNet: With 99% certainty, the forum server will be online by late Monday, the 29th. Hopefully much sooner.
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#146
11-29-2010, 09:56 AM
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"Read the Advertisement!"
"Read the Advertisement"
Confused about all this LRL stuff? Wish you could reason it through? This post is for you. CAVEAT LECTOR: If you don't want to reason it through, this post is not for you. You "true believers" have no need for reason and therefore you should avoid this post. Bail out now before it hurts your brain. Ya been warned, no sympathy for whiners! ************************ ************************ Introduction For the purpose of this essay, an "LRL" is a so-called long range locator which relies on a hand-held swivel mounted pointer device (typically a telescoping antenna) and has some sort of alleged electronic stuff associated with it which distinguishes it from a plain vanilla dowsing rod. Some LRL's use two, one in each hand, just as dowsers who use bent coat hangers usually prefer to use two rather than one. When it comes to LRL's, there's usually a nasty debate over proving stuff one way or the other, what blinded testing is and whether or not it even matters, whether people who say their LRL finds stuff in a useful way are deluded or liars or providing accurate information, whether the supposed science really is or is just a bunch of malarkey, and so on ad infinitum. In some cases, people have actually opened up the units to look at the electronic stuff and found no working circuits of any kind in there. If you're new to this stuff, can all seem very confusing how to make sense of it. The way to make sense of it is to set all that nasty debate aside, and read the advertisement -- from the point of view of the manufacturer of the LRL. If reading it from that point of view shows they regard their product as a scam, then you should also regard it as a scam. Most of life doesn't require such a challenging level of critical thinking. People argue over what car is best, but nobody argues whether cars are just a scam. Houses, the roof may leak but nobody argues whether houses really "work" or not. During elections people get nasty over Republiphant or Democronkey but nobody asks if the candidates really exist, and in the end they govern pretty much the same way anyhow. Metal detectors? There are legal and illegal knockoffs, but nobody debates whether metal detectors as a class of product are bogus. They pretty much all work. Buying a used car, you're wary of getting burnt, the car could even be bogus (defective title)! But the car is usually okay, and you've calculated the risk involved. When it comes to LRL's, you're navigating an unfamiliar world where the debate is not over which one is better, but over whether the things are bogus, maybe all of them. And the people who insist that their favorite brand isn't bogus make extravagant claims without backing those claims up with any kind of credible evidence. So this ain't like buying a used car or even voting for a politician, where you can probably live with the result even if it was a poor choice. Most LRL's are rather expensive, and if you're gonna get one you should satisfy yourself that the thing will probably do something for you besides empty your wallet. Caveat emptor, do your homework carefully. In most of everyday life you probably trust people, even ones you don't know, unless you have some specific reason not to. That won't work with LRL's. You have to admit to yourself that with all the confusion that is raised over LRL's and the high prices involved, some people are liars and crooks and that some of them probably get away with it for decades. If you believe everyone's honest, you're gonna get fleeced. There's a way to make sense of the chaos of information and misinformation and intentional disinformation and personality battles that aren't your battles. And that's to cut out the information middlemen. Go straight to the source, the manufacturer, and read the advertisement. With the brains God done guv ya turned on and tuned up, because as you already figured out, it's a jungle out there. ********** ********** From an LRL manufacturer's perspective, there are basically two markets: the treasure hunting gullibillies, and military and security professionals who are not so gullible but can be conned with clever pseudoscience. I have not yet found any LRL's being marketed to a customer base that doesn't have to be scammed, so unfortunately this essay can't cover that one. What's left is for you to know for yourself, straight from the manufacturer, that it's a scam, so you don't have to suffer the punishment that scammers inflict upon their customers. The treasure hunting gullibilly market If you read treasure hunting and gold prospecting magazines, you've seen the ads. The ads usually make no explicit claims regarding what the unit will actually do, since, well, what does it actually do? There are usually pictures and words that hint at what you might imagine it to do, which of course is point to buried treasure. Often there's some blather about "molecular frequencies" or "ions" without reference to any independent source of information that you might access to verify that the supposed operating principle could have something to do with its functional operation if any functional operation is claimed. (Remember that any specific claims will be extraordinary, and therefore should not be accepted without some solid evidence.) The manufacturer doesn't say "you can dowse with it" because then you'd wonder why you were paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for some pseudo-electronic nonsense when a bent coat hanger would probably work as well. There's another problem with confessing it to be a dowsing rod. Some people want to dowse for treasure, but in their minds a dowser is an old superstitious fuddy-duddy. So they imagine that the gizmo isn't really a dowsing rod, and buy one to go dowsing without having to admit to themselves they're doing the same thing as a guy with a bent coat hanger. They pay a high price for the privilege of pretending they're not dowsing. When you've seen several LRL ads targeted to the treasure hunting gullibilly market, you'll notice a pattern, a formula for the whole thing. What you can learn straight from the manufacturer, is that the manufacturer will not say in plain English that the thing works at all for any useful purpose. If you want to believe it does anyhow (and you get lots of encouragement to do so!), that's your (expensive) problem. The variant is where the manufacturer does make a performance claim in plain English, attributing it to a little pseudoscientific blurb which when you Google it you discover that it leads to a dead end. Probably the best known representative of an LRL marketed to the gullibillies is the Thomas Electroscope "Gravitator". If you read the ad carefully, you'll see how much fun the manufacturer is having at the expense of people who believe what they want to believe and inquire how to buy the thing. Back in 2002 on Treasurenet I said it was the best ad in the business, and I was right. "More treasure has been found"...... and is still being found, that's why the same ad is still running eight years later. Superb styling, a great adult toy for a guy who wants to relive a childhood of ray guns and magic wands. The professional military and security market These customers are generally trying to detect people, drugs, or weapons. Most of them hardly know what dowsing is, and expect an advertisement for equipment to say what it is and what it does. Since an LRL in this market makes extraordinary claims, the advertising is accompanied by an explanation of the supposed "scientific principle" of how the thing works. It may even be patented: some patent examiners aren't very bright. Or, a smart examiner may decide not to waste his valuable time on bozos, and let the bozo have a worthless patent. Since this advertising is targeted to a somewhat sophisticated audience, it's supposed to pass as leading-edge real technology. The dead giveways that the manufacturer regards the product as a scam are usually absent. And they don't usually call them "LRL's" which would mark them as gullibilly products. Trying to figure out if a supposedly advanced locating product is real or bogus can be a challenge if you aren't familiar with the kinds of scientific technology that the manufacturer is claiming are the basis of the product. So here's some tips. 1. If it's designed to be held in the hand, with something that points to the target mounted on a swivel, it's a dowsing rod. Dead giveaway. In principle it would be possible to design certain types of real locating systems to mechanically actuate a pointer to indicate the direction of the target, but such a system if it existed would not need to be held in the hand, just as an ordinary magnetic compass does not need to be held in the hand in order to point north. It does the pointing. Actually, nowadays in electronic equipment pointing is usually done on an LCD screen, the new Fisher TW-82 pipe & cable utility locator for the industrial market affording an example. Mechanical indicators are usually too expensive and more prone to failure. 2. Extraordinary claims should be accompanied by solid evidence. For instance, if I designed a metal detector that looked pretty much like a regular metal detector but which could discriminate gold from other alloys (an extraordinary claim), if the thing really worked the company would have to either disclose how it was done in a way that other scientists could understand it and in principle could replicate it, or (if we wished to keep it a trade secret) we'd have to produce empirical evidence that could not be seriously questioned. Otherwise we would be rightfully regarded as scammers, even if we weren't. So, in the case of a long range locator of some sort you don't have figured out yet, which is accompanied by extraordinary claims, how do they address the problem of satisfying skeptics? If you are skeptical and they can't satisfy your expectation that such claims be substantiated, they don't deserve your business even if the thing works. Probably the best example of an LRL aimed at the professional military and security market is the DKL "LifeGuard". The website is slick, makes many specific performance claims, and also includes stories where the thing was purportedly used to locate a person whose location or presence was otherwise unknown. The "extraordinary claim" is that it detects the electric field of a human heartbeat and only that, not being confused even by animals, and that it will do this at a distance of up to 500 meters under open field conditions, and at shorter range can do this even with the subject inside a metal enclosure. ......Now anyone familiar with the electric fields produced by the human heart and how they might be detected without physical contact to a human body can quickly figure out that such a claim is malarkey, but most folks don't have that particular kind of knowledge. So what are the tipoffs for the nonscientist? 1. It's got that swivel pointer attached to a grip that's designed to be handheld, and handheld only. 2. They offer no explanation of why anyone with knowledge in that field should regard their product as anything other than fraudulent. It gets better. 3. The thing bears a striking resemblance to the Gravitator, which is advertised to the gullibilly market and which carefully avoids making any performance claim at all. 4. If you're holding this thing spotting an escaped convict's heartbeat from 500 meters away, you're gonna have to master the art of going into voluntary cardiac arrest in order not to overwhelm the thing with your own heartbeat less than a meter away. A few seconds later you'll be unconscious, so your buddy will have to grab the thing from you and continue.... wait! it was pointing at him, not the escaped convict! Now that you're unconscious, you can't figure out how to get your heartbeat restarted. You were tired of your job anyhow, right? Killing two birds with one stone The same product may be marketed to both the gullibilly and professional markets, in part because even in the professional markets there are gullibillies. A good case study example is the H3tec. Visit their website, see their movies, read their patent, read the things their reps have posted in this forum. It all smacks of gullibilly marketing, but they claim to be getting into the military market. .......Unlike most LRL's aimed at the gullibilly market, they have an elaborate pseudoscience system they claim is based on nuclear magnetic resonance. The average person won't know what to make of that, it's pretty much the domain of electronic engineers. The patent will impress people who believe that the patent office is diligent in throwing out bad patent apps (which however it is not). So, if the whole junior high school bully & BS'er's club atmosphere that pervades their website and their posts in this forum leaves some doubt as to whether the thing is a scam (would you really do business with these guys?), here are the additional clues. 1. The photos and movies show what is obviously a pivoted pointer designed to be held in the hand. What a coincidence that it looks like a classic dowsing rod! 2. A person who seems to be a rep for H3tec posted in this forum that a person who buys the device signs a contract saying they can't sell or give it to anyone else and cannot tell anyone else what they know about it from factory information. In at least one case they're claiming that the company still owns it and is demanding its return! I've never heard of a purchase contract this bizarre, have you? ...... Now go to the website and look for mention of this bizarre contract. It ain't there. There are however several ways to pay. You wouldn't buy something you were sure worked from a company that does this kind of business, and there's no reason to think that it works at all-- except perhaps as a dowsing rod, but they haven't said that. 3. If you're curious about the science angle, and somehow the pivoted pointer in handheld apparatus has left you with doubt, you can read the forums to find out what people who actually know something about this stuff who aren't selling it say. Or, you can read the patent and even without delving into the arcana of NMR, just ask where in the patent it is disclosed how that pivoted pointer works. ************ --Dave J. PS#1: some true believers whose heads now hurt (having refused my warning) will want to jump in and argue with me. Hey, if you choose to embrace delusion, go right ahead, you have my blessing. Not because I wish that upon you, but because I know that your problem is one I cannot fix, and in a few years it'll get fixed all on its own anyhow. PS#2: there are some folks who without reading first, will want to jump into a flame war insisting that dowsing really works. This post has nothing to do with that issue! This post teaches how to read LRL advertising and understand what it's really saying about LRL's from the manufacturer's own perspective, so you can know what they know and not be fooled by them. PS#3: if someday there's a non-scam handheld long range locating device for finding valuables, persons, drugs, or weapons, a lot of us would like to hear about it. Imposters need not apply.
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#148
11-29-2010, 11:09 AM
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I will go over this later when and IF I have the time.
__________________
"Should exist injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll show up to debunker the big mouths"
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#149
11-29-2010, 11:55 AM
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#150
11-29-2010, 01:32 PM
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Your "scientific" point of simpy pure BS - as usual.
__________________
Global capital is ruining your life? You have right to self-defence!
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