$5,000 Coat Hangers vs Metal Dector Challenge

[Dell Winders]

Gold Detector Verses Dowsing Rod

I will challenge any gold hunter using an electronic detector, against my two coat hangers. How confident am I? $5,000. The challenge: a third party will hide a small gold nugget somewhere on a football field, placing it two inches deep by pounding a wooden rod into the ground. The first to uncover the gold nugget is the winner. The event will be video tapped. Email me if you are up to the challenge

http://www.dowselikeapro.com/My_Blog.html

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Gold Detector Verses Dowsing Rod

I will challenge any gold hunter using an electronic detector, against my two coat hangers. How confident am I? $5,000. The challenge: a third party will hide a small gold nugget somewhere on a football field, placing it two inches deep by pounding a wooden rod into the ground. The first to uncover the gold nugget is the winner. The event will be video tapped. Email me if you are up to the challenge

http://www.dowselikeapro.com/My_Blog.html

What a test!

We have a brilliant mind here...

And if you have some friend in the football field... that will then tell you where the third party buried the nugget ???

Or what if you placed an unmanned remote controlled camera there ???

No good...

Better is an open place... the third party will choose and don't tell you till you arrive there... say some desert area... works best!

I'd like some US folk will challenge you Dell... I'd like to see that on YouTube! And make some laugh!

Kind regards,
Max

[sweatofglory]

Originally Posted by Max

What a test!

We have a brilliant mind here...

And if you have some friend in the football field... that will then tell you where the third party buried the nugget ???

Or what if you placed an unmanned remote controlled camera there ???

No good...

Better is an open place... the third party will choose and don't tell you till you arrive there... say some desert area... works best!

I'd like some US folk will challenge you Dell... I'd like to see that on YouTube! And make some laugh!

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,

why don't you invite some of your friends to take Dell's challenge? do you think a 'trick of the mind' nonsense gadget can sometimes win over a high end metal detector?

[Max]

Originally Posted by sweatofglory

Hi Max,

why don't you invite some of your friends to take Dell's challenge? do you think a 'trick of the mind' nonsense gadget can sometimes win over a high end metal detector?

Hi,
cause I'm not in Florida or USA... I'm in the EU.

Here (but same apply to USA) serious people belive that good MDs beat hands down any fairy-tale device... expecially the kind Dell say...

Just a matter of time, sweeps and care in the search.

The nonsense gadgets are good for belivers... they love them... and have no need of proofs. When, after a thousand of empty holes, they endly dug something valuable like some old gold ring or a rusty coin... the selective memory take place... they instantly forget about all the empty holes and pain in the *** digging them and will remember forever the valuable item found... as an example of how special and productive LRLs are.

It's a trick of the mind... often people play with these gizmoes in e.g. old battlefields... proven rich of old relics... they will endly find something... cause the big numbers of attempts play for that... but then the trick of the mind and selective memory plays major role in all that stuff.

The Dell's "challenge" is also really tricky for the stuff I wrote before... it's easy find a way to trick people in a particular scenario (e.g. a known football field)... the things are worse instead in open field... in the middle of nothing... like a desert place... where you have no reference points... when you can hide something under the sand at 1'' and people cannot see anything to spot that underground... unless they have a sensitive MD!

If you have to place in a football field don't you think you must disturb the grass there ? And that people can see you when you place stuff ? That can be an hidden camera recording all your movements ???

The serious challenges to pass must be HARD.

Kind regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Gold Detector Verses Dowsing Rod

I will challenge any gold hunter using an electronic detector, against my two coat hangers. How confident am I? $5,000. The challenge: a third party will hide a small gold nugget somewhere on a football field, placing it two inches deep by pounding a wooden rod into the ground. The first to uncover the gold nugget is the winner. The event will be video tapped. Email me if you are up to the challenge

http://www.dowselikeapro.com/My_Blog.html

Ok lets do it.
BUT THE GOLD AND THE FOOTBALL FIELD MUST PICKED BY SOMEONE WE DON'T KNOW AND IT MUST BE DOCIMENTED, YES IT MUST BE VIDEO TAPE.
THE GOLD SHOULD BE 1 oz bar.
I will use my XLPRO with a big foot coil in the all metal mode.
I WILL FIND THE 1OZ BAR AT 2 INCH FAST
PLUS WHO FINDS THE BAR KEEPS IT.
LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS OK WITH YOU.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Clondike Clad

Ok lets do it.
BUT THE GOLD AND THE FOOTBALL FIELD MUST PICKED BY SOMEONE WE DON'T KNOW AND IT MUST BE DOCIMENTED, YES IT MUST BE VIDEO TAPE.
THE GOLD SHOULD BE 1 oz bar.
I will use my XLPRO with a big foot coil in the all metal mode.
I WILL FIND THE 1OZ BAR AT 2 INCH FAST
PLUS WHO FINDS THE BAR KEEPS IT.
LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS OK WITH YOU.

I suggest open field, not known location for you and Dell till both you reach the place, and as preference a desert like place... no reference points...
just four markers to signal the limits of the search field... and preferable all must be the same at ground level... e.g. uniform sand and nothing more than sand!
Then you can choose a dimension for search field like a football field... that have sense and I think Dell cannot complain if dimensions are the same.
If you're going to place a large item... like a gold bar... you must provide more depth for it... cause don't wanna people walk over it with 1'' of sand over and detect it by his foot!

If you accept or wanna make like Dell described you or the third party can be easily fooled in the way I explained.

Let the third party make the field where he wants to... then after he prepared anything you and Dell will play the big game...

PS: a good rule will be that people must have a fixed number of attempts to signal/mark a point and dig, say e.g. 10 and if make the 10th and don't find the stuff he lose.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

...If you're going to place a large item... like a gold bar... you must provide more depth for it... cause don't wanna people walk over it with 1'' of sand over and detect it by his foot!

.....PS: a good rule will be that people must have a fixed number of attempts to signal/mark a point and dig, say e.g. 10 and if make the 10th and don't find the stuff he lose. x

Whoaaa...! This spoils the whole contest...
How can Dell find the target if he does not dig at least 500 holes, one for each signal he gets? Wasn't that his strategy? To quickly dig hundreds of empty holes until he finds the target? It would take way too long to do this if he had to dig hundreds of holes more than 2 inches deep.

Hmmmm... I don't see anything in the rules that says you can't use a D9 bull dozer to recover the target. Anyone who has a D9 could quickly announce "I found it".... then proceed to scrape the top few inches off the surface of the test field and pile it into a mound, where it is then screened to collect the target.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Whoaaa...! This spoils the whole contest...
How can Dell find the target if he does not dig at least 500 holes, one for each signal he gets? Wasn't that his strategy? To quickly dig hundreds of empty holes until he finds the target? It would take way too long to do this if he had to dig hundreds of holes more than 2 inches deep.

Hmmmm... I don't see anything in the rules that says you can't use a D9 bull dozer to recover the target. Anyone who has a D9 could quickly announce "I found it".... then proceed to scrape the top few inches off the surface of the test field and pile it into a mound, where it is then screened to collect the target.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hmmm
I think the D9 based remote sensing is not that smart...

But isn't Dell going to use coat hangers to locate stuff ???

Cause if he starts digging like a crazy dog is not that smart remote sensing detectorist...

10 attempts are enough! One will mark the place and start to dig under control of one observer... the diameter of hole must be also defined by rules... e.g. max 16'' or you will lose...



Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

Hmmm
I think the D9 based remote sensing is not that smart...
But isn't Dell going to use coat hangers to locate stuff ???

10 attempts are enough! One will mark the place and start to dig under control of one observer... the diameter of hole must be also defined by rules... e.g. max 16'' or you will lose...

Sure you use coat hangers to locate the treasure. This is done in about 1 second. Then take out the D9 only for recovering the treasure. This is done in about 3 hours, by scraping the top 4 inches off the test field and dumping it into a shaker screen that will separate the sand from the larger stuff -- same as the sand scoops beach detectorists use for recovering coins and jewelry. Since there is no rule in this contest for size or shape of the hole, this is a good method for recovery. You dig a hole the size of the test field and 6 inches deep, after locating the treasure in about 1 second. (maybe a 994 loader will work better to recover the target because you need lift up the dirt to dump it over the screens)...

So using a tractor for recovering treasure is really smart, because it can help to win the $5000 prize when recovering the treasure from the first hole dug. And it only cost about $500 for a day rental of a 994 with driver. After winning the prize, you can go to a real nice restaurant and buy dinner for yourself and the loser, and also you can buy a new metal detector to replace the coat hanger wires, and still have money to put in the bank when you get home.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Max

I suggest open field, not known location for you and Dell till both you reach the place, and as preference a desert like place... no reference points...
just four markers to signal the limits of the search field... and preferable all must be the same at ground level... e.g. uniform sand and nothing more than sand!
Then you can choose a dimension for search field like a football field... that have sense and I think Dell cannot complain if dimensions are the same.
If you're going to place a large item... like a gold bar... you must provide more depth for it... cause don't wanna people walk over it with 1'' of sand over and detect it by his foot!

If you accept or wanna make like Dell described you or the third party can be easily fooled in the way I explained.

Let the third party make the field where he wants to... then after he prepared anything you and Dell will play the big game...

PS: a good rule will be that people must have a fixed number of attempts to signal/mark a point and dig, say e.g. 10 and if make the 10th and don't find the stuff he lose.

Kind regards,
Max

Max that is very good,Dell let's do it in the sand the size of a football field. 6 inch deep a 1 oz bar.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Clondike Clad

Max that is very good,Dell let's do it in the sand the size of a football field. 6 inch deep a 1 oz bar.

Hi,
very good!

I hope Dell will accept this challenge and we'll see soon on YouTube!

I know who will win... hands down!

Kind regards,
Max

[Mike(Mont)]

This is not Dell's contest. He just posted the link.

I read through part of it. I am a bit confounded by the "World Dowsing Championship". I know several dowsers in Montana and I never heard of such a thing. Sounds like a bunch of drunks got together to see who could spew the most BS.

As for the nugget contest, a small nugget would not be easy to find with an MD amongst thousands of pull tabs. I don't understand the significance of pounding a wooden stake in the ground unless a person could feel it when they walked over it.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

This is not Dell's contest. He just posted the link.

I read through part of it. I am a bit confounded by the "World Dowsing Championship". I know several dowsers in Montana and I never heard of such a thing. Sounds like a bunch of drunks got together to see who could spew the most BS.

As for the nugget contest, a small nugget would not be easy to find with an MD amongst thousands of pull tabs. I don't understand the significance of pounding a wooden stake in the ground unless a person could feel it when they walked over it.

It seemed clear to me that Dell was merely posting a link to someone else's website. Dell would never make such a challenge, and go through with the deal......... unless of course, like Max outlined; the whole thing was rigged.

Incidently, Mike, when was the last time you were coinhunting? Thousands of pull tabs??? I think you might be surprised, within the confines of a football playing field, how few pull tabs there really are. Lots of tinfoil, of course.... Besides, unless you've never been nugget shooting with a MD; small gold nuggets usually read like a nickel on a lot of machines.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

...Incidently, Mike, when was the last time you were coinhunting? Thousands of pull tabs??? I think you might be surprised, within the confines of a football playing field, how few pull tabs there really are. Lots of tinfoil, of course.... Besides, unless you've never been nugget shooting with a MD; small gold nuggets usually read like a nickel on a lot of machines.

Hi Theseus and Mike,
I recently hunted a baseball field that is also used as a soccer field (football field for people outside the USA). This place was the worst hunt I did in a long time. It was full of foil from gum wrappers, bottle tops, fast food condiment wrappers, and cigarette wrappers. And there were lots of paper clips and small nails and pieces of iron wire. I also found some pull tabs along the sidelines. At the end of 5 hours hunting, I found about 90 cents in coins, and no jewelry, even at the playground at the side of the park. Needless to say, I will not be going back to hunt there again until I have in my hands a proven LRL that shows me where the gold is. (Perhaps this will not happen in this lifetime).

If anyone wants to hold a contest between coat hanger wires and a metal detector, I suggest it is done in a remote area that has been searched to insure nobody threw their trash there first. Maybe in a desert somewhere.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Needless to say, I will not be going back to hunt there again until I have in my hands a proven LRL that shows me where the gold is. (Perhaps this will not happen in this lifetime).

Best wishes,
J_P

Proven LRL??? Good Luck! I hope you are a really young fella.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

This is not Dell's contest. He just posted the link.

I read through part of it. I am a bit confounded by the "World Dowsing Championship". I know several dowsers in Montana and I never heard of such a thing. Sounds like a bunch of drunks got together to see who could spew the most BS.

As for the nugget contest, a small nugget would not be easy to find with an MD amongst thousands of pull tabs. I don't understand the significance of pounding a wooden stake in the ground unless a person could feel it when they walked over it.

After reading the blog, you could be excused for wondering why this "dowsing legend" has not relieved Randi of his $1M.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

This is not Dell's contest. He just posted the link.

I read through part of it. I am a bit confounded by the "World Dowsing Championship". I know several dowsers in Montana and I never heard of such a thing. Sounds like a bunch of drunks got together to see who could spew the most BS.

As for the nugget contest, a small nugget would not be easy to find with an MD amongst thousands of pull tabs. I don't understand the significance of pounding a wooden stake in the ground unless a person could feel it when they walked over it.

Choose a desert like place...
the third party will find on ewith few or no pull tabs.

Not easy , uh ? Yeah... but some places you can find like that... and then put a limit to the attempts... e.g. 10.

If you use a discriminating MD you can reject easy pull tabs and got the gold signal.

Now... sure it's not easy prepare such search field... but would be more easy in a real football field ?

How many e.g. coins people lost or launched there in the field during the years ?

How much small gold items (e.g. small medals, rings etc) people lost there during the years !?

A real football field , apart the risk of being fooled by some hidden camera or person watching when you bury stuff, it's a real nightmare using an MD for to search a specific item... like the small gold bar.

Desert is fairly better.

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

I am not sure if the place should be so much "prepared" and special.
I think it should be a natural place, with usual trash.Real life.

It looks too complicated, there is nothing to be afraid of: after all it´s just regular MD against L rods, let the better win!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

I am not sure if the place should be so much "prepared" and special.
I think it should be a natural place, with usual trash.Real life.

It looks too complicated, there is nothing to be afraid of: after all it´s just regular MD against L rods, let the better win!

Would it be ok if I go there before the contest and throw some coins, rare earth magnets, and scatter a few kilos of chopped up pieces of copper wire in the test field to add to the usual trash found in natural real life places?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi,
I think better if field is clean of other stuff... I mean trash that usually is found near urban areas... or farm land too.
Too much tin foil, lost coins, cigarette silvery paper, old paint cans and iron wires etc

Why ?

Easy... if too much trash the MD must perform a HUGE number of attempts before finding the gold-bar.

A HUGE number of attempts mean the LRL operator could do the same... a HUGE number of attempts... and you know... huge numbers possibly end-up with some lucky strike.

No no... we are talking here of a challenge between LRL-method and MD stuff...

Use a clean soil, uniform, possibly sand like... and very few trash and few attempts people can make.

This way who has ability of REALLY locate the target will find it and not by luck.

Are we talking of luck here ? No. We are talking of detectiong stuff before the other player, no need that luck have to interfere in this process.

And what can be wrong if soil is almost clean of trash ?
Both operators MUST be satisfied of this search conditions... cause will not be disturbed by tin foil etc...

Or now tin foil is essential for the LRL-method to work ???

MD has no need of trash to work... I would expect the same from the coat hangers...

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Would it be ok if I go there before the contest and throw some coins, rare earth magnets, and scatter a few kilos of chopped up pieces of copper wire in the test field to add to the usual trash found in natural real life places?

Best wishes,
J_P

For obvious reasons the place must be unknown from both participants so this is not possible.
Now, "natural" crap, in "natural" concentrations should not be a problem.
Or else you will give the same excuse that LRL proponents uses that the test must be performed in special mood, special terrain , blood iron , and Sun activity...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

HA HA HA.... It was all a trick!

Dell fooled you!

Dell made this post at the top of this thread:If you look at the link, you will see this is what some guy in Canada is offering, not Dell. Dell is not holding the contest, and is not a contestant. He only posted some words from this Canadian's blog, and the link to read it. He was informing us of some news that somebody is holding a dowsing contest where he puts up $5000. You are reading the offer from some Canadian, not Dell. And Dell is undoubtedly laughing in font of his computer at all the fools who didn't figure out his trick, and think Dell is making a challenge.

If you read the blog, you will find this Canadian's quote about 3/4 the way down. You can also search the page for "Gold Detector Verses Dowsing Rod". You will see he offered exactly what Dell posted, So he did not offer to make special field arrangements. But after reading some of his stories, I thik he will not mind to make the challenge in the way you are suggesting.

Anyway, don't expect Dell Winders to ever allow a test of his dowsing abilities, or of the abilities of his LRLs when someone else is watching.

Best wishes,
J_P
Gold Detector Verses Dowsing Rod

Mike Mont already pointed this out early on in the thread. It was clearly nothing to do with Dell. See quote below:

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

This is not Dell's contest. He just posted the link.

I read through part of it. I am a bit confounded by the "World Dowsing Championship". I know several dowsers in Montana and I never heard of such a thing. Sounds like a bunch of drunks got together to see who could spew the most BS.

As for the nugget contest, a small nugget would not be easy to find with an MD amongst thousands of pull tabs. I don't understand the significance of pounding a wooden stake in the ground unless a person could feel it when they walked over it.

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

After reading the blog, you could be excused for wondering why this "dowsing legend" has not relieved Randi of his $1M.

As you stated, the contest appears to be a challenge by a dowser against electronic LRLs (gold detectors). He would not risk his reputation against a real metal detector, unless the contest could be rigged.

He had a very amusing story about the travelling salesman and his car keys. I bet that story has been repeated hundreds of times, but it proves nothing. There are numerous ways he could have retrieved his keys without any so-called psychic ability. Maybe he had an electronic key finder attached to the fob, the receptionist tipped him off, he simply watched them out of the window, or he was just lucky that they didn't hide them in a less obvious place. Whatever, any amateur conjurer could perform the same trick.

Regarding the nugget attached to the end of a wooden stake - this is also an indication of trickery. How easy would it be to embed a neodymium magnet in the top of the stake, then have a reed switch in your shoe which triggers a simple circuit and lets you know you're over the nugget? There are numerous devious methods of rigging the contest. That's why controlled double-blind testing is essential.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Mike Mont already pointed this out early on in the thread. It was clearly nothing to do with Dell. See quote below

Sure Mike pointed it out... and Theseus too. But it still fooled a lot of people who continued making plans to win Dell's $5000.
And yes, it did have something to do with Dell. He changed the context of the contest by naming the thread "$5,000 Coat Hangers vs Metal Dector Challenge", giving the impression that he was challenging metal detectorists.

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

As you stated, the contest appears to be a challenge by a dowser against electronic LRLs (gold detectors). He would not risk his reputation against a real metal detector, unless the contest could be rigged.

Reputation? What reputation? This person does not even publish his name. And all his stories are simply stories he posted to help sell his dowsing DVDs. What makes you think any of it is true?
Rigged? Did any of his dowsing stories ever happen in the first place? Will he even hold a contest that would necessitate rigging?

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

There are numerous devious methods of rigging the contest. That's why controlled double-blind testing is essential.

Contest? What contest? This is just something he posted in his blog to help sell dowsing lesson DVDs. You really believe he will agree to hold a contest? If he intended to hold a contest, he would first have to publish his name with a way to contact him, and a location for the test, wouldn't he?

Hypothetical scenario:
Suppose there was a poverty stricken old man who tried everything short of working to earn a living. After trying all the get rich schemes he still ended up nearly homeless. So he reads about the money you can make in drop-shipping internet sales. After a few years, he decides he wants to make more money than the deal he gets from the drop-shipper. So he hires an actor to pose as a dowser for tons of pictures in every imaginable situation where a dowser finds the hidden object and wins prizes, etc. And he has a friend help make up a DVD on how to dowse, using the actor to play the role of the dowser. Then he makes a website to sell the DVDs. He fills it with a lot of stories designed to make a reader drool over the power of dowsing, and adds a blog with more stories, etc. The he begins to see the money come in, and his only overhead is sending out DVDs. Of course, he will never publish his real name to send inquiries to, and will never give a true location of where he is. All the product is sent by someone else who handles his DVD-burning and shipping from a remote location...He simply checks his P.O. box every week to pick up checks forwarded from the shipper. Can you think of anyone who is poverty stricken that might want to try this?


p.s. Closer examination shows that the shipping location is Toronto, Kansas. So it appears he is not a Canadian, but an American who ships his goods from Kansas.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

HA HA HA.... It was all a trick!

Dell fooled you!

Dell made this post at the top of this thread:

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Gold Detector Verses Dowsing Rod

I will challenge any gold hunter using an electronic detector, against my two coat hangers. How confident am I? $5,000. The challenge: a third party will hide a small gold nugget somewhere on a football field, placing it two inches deep by pounding a wooden rod into the ground. The first to uncover the gold nugget is the winner. The event will be video tapped. Email me if you are up to the challenge

http://www.dowselikeapro.com/My_Blog.html

If you look at the link, you will see this is what some guy in Canada is offering, not Dell. Dell is not holding the contest, and is not a contestant. He only posted some words from this Canadian's blog, and the link to read it. He was informing us of some news that somebody is holding a dowsing contest where he puts up $5000. You are reading the offer from some Canadian, not Dell. And Dell is undoubtedly laughing in font of his computer at all the fools who didn't figure out his trick, and think Dell is making a challenge.

If you read the blog, you will find this Canadian's quote about 3/4 the way down. You can also search the page for "Gold Detector Verses Dowsing Rod". You will see he offered exactly what Dell posted, So he did not offer to make special field arrangements. But after reading some of his stories, I thik he will not mind to make the challenge in the way you are suggesting.

Anyway, don't expect Dell Winders to ever allow a test of his dowsing abilities, or of the abilities of his LRLs when someone else is watching.

Best wishes,
J_P
Gold Detector Verses Dowsing Rod

[Jim]

Nowhere in the challenge does it mention “metal detector” (or Dector).

Dollars to doughnuts the blogger was referring to Long Range Locators when he drafted the challenge. The verbiage is specific to “electronic detectors”…sometimes referred to as LRLs

The appropriate title to this thread would be: Coat Hangers vs. Long Range Locators