US Department of Justice Identifies MFD and HID as Worthless Dowsing Gadgets

[Theseus]

The US Department of Justice published a report concerning explosives detection equipment. On page 71 and 72 of the report, they provide a warning about utilizing devices centered on dowsing techniques. The report specifically identifies MFD and HID based contraptions as worthless dowsing implements.

The entire report appears at:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/178913.htm

The excerpt below is from page 71 and 72.

7. WARNING: DO NOT BUY BOGUS EXPLOSIVES
DETECTION EQUIPMENT
From time to time, there are new devices that enter the market. Most companies make reasonable claims, and their products are based on solid scientific principles. Claims for some other devices may seem unreasonable or may not appear to be based on solid scientific principles. An old truism that continues to offer good advise is “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is not true.” If there are any questions as to the validity of a device, caution should be used and thorough research must be performed before a purchase is made. Money can be wasted and even lives may be risked. Although there may be other types of nonoperational devices around, dowsing devices for explosives detection have emerged during the past couple of years.

There is a rather large community of people around the world that believes in dowsing: the ancient practice of using forked sticks, swinging rods, and pendulums to look for underground water and other materials. These people believe that many types of materials can be located using a variety of dowsing methods. Dowsers claim that the dowsing device will respond to any buried anomalies, and years of practice are needed to use the device with discrimination (the ability to cause the device to respond to only those materials being sought). Modern dowsers have been developing various new methods to add discrimination to their devices. These new methods include molecular frequency discrimination (MFD) and harmonic induction discrimination (HID). MFD has taken the form of everything from placing a xerox copy of a Poloroid photograph of the desired material into the handle of the device, to using dowsing rods in conjunction with frequency generation electronics (function generators). None of these attempts to create devices that can detect specific materials such as explosives (or any materials for that matter) have been proven successful in controlled double-blind scientific tests. In fact, all testing of these inventions has shown these devices to perform no better than random chance.

Mostly these devices are used to locate water and now are used extensively by treasure hunters looking for gold and silver. In recent years some makers of these dowsing devices have attempted to cross over from treasure hunting to the areas of contraband detection, search and rescue, and law enforcement. The Quadro Tracker is one notable example of this cross-over attempt. This device was advertised as being a serious technology with a realistic sounding description of how it worked (close examination showed serious errors in the scientific sounding description). Fortunately, the National Institute of Justice investigated this company and stopped the sale of this device for these purposes, but not before many law enforcement agencies and school districts wasted public funds on the purchase of these devices.

Things to look for when dealing with “new technologies” that may well be a dowsing device are words like molecular frequency discrimination, harmonic induction discrimination, and claims of detecting small objects at large distances.

Many of these devices require no power to operate (most real technology requires power). Suspect any device that uses a swinging rod that is held nearly level, pivots freely and “indicates” the material being sought by pointing at it. Any device that uses a pendulum that swings in different shaped paths to indicate its response should also arouse suspicion. Advertisements that feature several testimonials by “satisfied users,” and statements about pending tests by scientific and regulatory agencies (but have just not happened yet) may be indications that the device has not been proven to work. Statements that the device must be held by a human to operate usually indicate dowsing devices. Statements that the device requires extensive training by the factory, the device is difficult to use, and not everyone can use the device, are often made to allow the manufacturer a way of blaming the operator for the device’s failure to work. Another often used diversion is that scientists and engineers cannot understand the operation of the device or the device operates on principles that have been lost or forgotten by the scientific community.

In general, any legitimate manufacturer of contraband detection equipment will eagerly seek evaluation of their device’s performance by scientific and engineering laboratories. Any doubt that a device is legitimate can quickly be dispelled by making a call to any of the known agencies whose business it is to know about security-related technology.

So.... do any of the terms and warnings given above sound like something we've heard discussed here??? How about it, Dell, Tim, Vincent... Bob ???

[Qiaozhi]

The Grim Reaper cometh...

[Mike(Mont)]

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to make the statements. Add to this someone "priming" them with negativity and you have a biased experiment. All I can say is they must have had some skeptic claiming to be knowlegeable--maybe even someone from this forum. If they really did say that MFD doesn't work any better than random chance (Where have I heard that before?), their findings are wrong. And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to make the statements. Add to this someone "priming" them with negativity and you have a biased experiment. All I can say is they must have had some skeptic claiming to be knowlegeable--maybe even someone from this forum. If they really did say that MFD doesn't work any better than random chance (Where have I heard that before?), their findings are wrong. And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information.

Hmmmmm....


if Sandia Labs say that are BS... I belive that.

Or have I to belive that you can find paper money with them at 1mile distance ?

Or drugs ?

Or explosive stuff ?

Or weapons ?

C'mon... get a life....

You read too many science fiction... few is good... too much cook the remaining neurons... like in Esteban's case with PaloAlto... he takes too much... and now he's sick!

Kind regards,
Max

[WM6]

Why even bother with these dowsing rods, MFDs, HIDs, LRLs and such things, why simply just not use old and proven Vipassana mental LRL technique?

Vipassana is efective and learned by free course:

Read here:

"Vipassana, which means to see things that really are, is one of India's most ancient techniques of meditation. It was rediscovered by Gotama Buddha more than 2500 years ago .....

.... The technique is taught at ten-day residential courses during which participants follow a prescribed Code of Discipline, learn the basics of the method, and practice sufficiently to experience its beneficial results.

There are no charges for the courses - not even to cover the cost of food and accommodation. All expenses are met by donations from people who, having completed a course and experienced the benefits of Vipassana, wish to give others the opportunity to benefit from it also.

Of course, the results come gradually through continued practice. It is unrealistic to expect all LRL problems to be solved in ten days. Within that time, however, the essentials of Vipassana can be learned so that it can be applied in daily life. The more the technique is practiced, the greater the freedom from misery (of course you will find tons of gold !!!! not only visible pull-tab like mineoro), and the closer the approach to the ultimate goal of full liberation. Even ten days can provide results which are vivid and obviously beneficial in everyday life."


So? Why waiting and smuggling with LRLs around? Grab Vipassana!!!!!!

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Hmmmmm....


if Sandia Labs say that are BS... I belive that.

Or have I to belive that you can find paper money with them at 1mile distance ?

Or drugs ?

Or explosive stuff ?

Or weapons ?

C'mon... get a life....

You read too many science fiction... few is good... too much cook the remaining neurons... like in Esteban's case with PaloAlto... he takes too much... and now he's sick!

Kind regards,
Max

You are insane...

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

You are insane...

Me !?

I don't say I can find paper money with a plastic made full of farts gizmo... nor I sell it also to FBI !

Do I ?

Or you manybe mean Mike(Mont) is a "normal" person ???

Don't you remember where he posted about the stuff you put on your tongue to detect things from remote....

Which will be next step ??? Put the PaloAlto in your back and use as a dowsing rod !?

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Me !?

I don't say I can find paper money with a plastic made full of farts gizmo... nor I sell it also to FBI !

Do I ?

Or you manybe mean Mike(Mont) is a "normal" person ???

Don't you remember where he posted about the stuff you put on your tongue to detect things from remote....

Which will be next step ??? Put the PaloAlto in your back and use as a dowsing rod !?

Kind regards,
Max

First, look yourself, do you're normal?

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to make the statements. Add to this someone "priming" them with negativity and you have a biased experiment. All I can say is they must have had some skeptic claiming to be knowlegeable--maybe even someone from this forum. If they really did say that MFD doesn't work any better than random chance (Where have I heard that before?), their findings are wrong. And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information.

You can't be serious.

If paranoia was a tea cup, you'd be the Grand Canyon.

Dowsing (including LRL/MFD) is a trick of the mind. Live with it.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to make the statements. Add to this someone "priming" them with negativity and you have a biased experiment. All I can say is they must have had some skeptic claiming to be knowlegeable--maybe even someone from this forum. If they really did say that MFD doesn't work any better than random chance (Where have I heard that before?), their findings are wrong. And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information.

Hmmmm....

"And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information."

Now, you might have something there. Of course...
The government discovered MFDs work excellent to detect explosives, and they want to keep this information from falling into the hands of the general public, same as they are hiding the 150 MPG carburettors, and alien space ship technology. Of course, this is all part of a sinister scheme to take control of the entire world by controlling all the advanced technology. I can see how hiding advanced MFD explosive detectors falls into this plan. When the underground resistance wants to find government explosive stockpiles, they will not have the advantage of these convenient MFDs, simply because they have been convinced they don't work. Hopefully you will be among the freedom fighters to help save the world wiith your MFDs when the days of hopeless tyrannical world takeover come.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

The first thing that threw me off was Janet Reno's name on it.

I didn't read the article, just skiimed through it. Nowhere did I see any double-blind testing of MFD equipment, only a vague reference that it had been done. No references at all. That's bogus, as is their bias against all dowsing equipment. What do you expect?

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

The first thing that threw me off was Janet Reno's name on it.

I didn't read the article, just skiimed through it.

Maybe you should have read it more closely.

Then again, I doubt very much if any sort of facts and truth ever get through your mindset and filters.

You are one sad case....

Whose name did you think would be on a document from the Justice Department; Dell Winders ????

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Whose name did you think would be on a document from the Justice Department; Dell Winders ????

Probably Oprah Winfrey ...

[Dell Winders]

A fact for any Idiots that may read this post.

I have never seen any report, or am I aware of any HID, or MFD products I manufacture that have ever been field tested by Sandia Labs? Dell

Disclaimer on Presented Research Results

NIJ is the research, development, and evaluation agency of the U.S. Department of Justice and is dedicated to researching crime control and justice issues.

Much of the content presented on this site results from NIJ-funded research, development, and evaluation projects. The content is not intended to create, does not create, and may not be relied upon to create any rights, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by any party in any matter civil or criminal.

Opinions or points of view expressed on this site represent a consensus of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official position or policies of the U.S. Department of Justice. The products and manufacturers discussed in this document are presented for informational purposes only and do not constitute product approval or enforcement by the U.S. Department of Justice.

See also additional Legal Policies and Disclaimers for all U.S. Department of Justice Web content.
Date Entered: January 8, 2008

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

A fact for any Idiots that may read this post.

I have never seen any report, or am I aware of any HID, or MFD products I manufacture that have ever been field tested by Sandia Labs? Dell

Maybe they have better things to do.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

A fact for any Idiots that may read this post.

I have never seen any report, or am I aware of any HID, or MFD products I manufacture that have ever been field tested by Sandia Labs? Dell

Then read here... and enjoy!

http://www.skepdic.com/quadro.html

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

The first thing that threw me off was Janet Reno's name on it.

I didn't read the article, just skiimed through it. Nowhere did I see any double-blind testing of MFD equipment, only a vague reference that it had been done. No references at all. That's bogus, as is their bias against all dowsing equipment. What do you expect?

It appears that Einstein was on your side:

He was quoted as saying - "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."

[Mike(Mont)]

It appears to me that the "National Institute of Justice" is a misnomer just like many bills in Congress. At least on a jury of twelve you might get one person that is non-biased. Reminds me of an infamous skeptic who proclaimed he is "totally non-biased". Just like another skeptic on this forum claims he is a "nice guy". I think these skeptics really believe they are.

[Dell Winders]

Why am I not surprised that there's no link to Geotech?

The reason is obvious to intelligent viewers. But I will explain it for you. Geotech administrator, and Geotech skeptics on this forum have shown they have no field experience with Dowsing, or remote sensing methods used by Treasure Hunters, and speak with egotistical ignorance. Geotechian Skeptics simply have nothing of interest to offer viewers, except maybe rather stupid comic.

Clean up your act, demonstrate some intelligence, show a sincere interest in the subject, practice your Dowsing, and LRL use so you can speak intelligently on the subjects and if you can overcome your mental handicaps, I will exchange a link to Geotech, for a link to my site at http://www.dowse.webs.com

I don't consider dis-information, deception, scientific pretense, bias, prejudice, ignorance or mockery as good reasons to recommend the Geotech website.

For Tabloid journalism, and comic relief I would be more likely to recommend the author of this funny skeptic website over the Geotech proclaimed skeptic's contributions. Dell

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...pics?hl=en&lr=

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

For Tabloid journalism, and comic relief I would be more likely to recommend the author of this funny skeptic website over the Geotech proclaimed skeptic's contributions. Dell

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...pics?hl=en&lr=

"Funny skeptic website"?
It all looks quite reasonable to me. Unless you're an LRL salesman of course.

[Dell Winders]

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

For Tabloid journalism, and comic relief I would be more likely to recommend the author of this funny skeptic website over the Geotech proclaimed skeptic's contributions. Dell
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...pics?hl=en&lr=

Hi Dell,
I checked out your link for the funny skeptic website. I guess it's sorta cool, but it seems to fall short when compared to Geotech. It looks to me like the link you posted shows rantings that keep on with the exact same formula to "debunker" pseudoscience, which gets kind of boring after reading a few of their posts. But what I see in Geotech seems to have a more refreshing innovative character. Some skeptic posts at Geotech seem to take on an art form that can have skeptics as well as dowsing proponents laughing. I tried to do my part in my parody of the poor hillbilly who lost his can of chili beans, and I see the other skeptics are also up for some very innovative posts here too. It makes for good variety. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it seems to me you get more quality entertainment in Geotech than other skeptic websites. Am I wrong about this?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Stupid is, as stupid does. Dell

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Stupid is, as stupid does. Dell

Each post you make make me feel smarter.Thanks Dell !

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

The reason is obvious to intelligent viewers. But I will explain it for you. Geotech administrator, and Geotech skeptics on this forum have shown they have no field experience with Dowsing, or remote sensing methods used by Treasure Hunters, and speak with egotistical ignorance. Geotechian Skeptics simply have nothing of interest to offer viewers, except maybe rather stupid comic.

Clean up your act, demonstrate some intelligence, show a sincere interest in the subject, practice your Dowsing, and LRL use so you can speak intelligently on the subjects and if you can overcome your mental handicaps, I will exchange a link to Geotech, for a link to my site at http://www.dowse.webs.com

I don't consider dis-information, deception, scientific pretense, bias, prejudice, ignorance or mockery as good reasons to recommend the Geotech website.

For Tabloid journalism, and comic relief I would be more likely to recommend the author of this funny skeptic website over the Geotech proclaimed skeptic's contributions. Dell

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...pics?hl=en&lr=

Interesting. That link you provided noted:

Dell Winders Lies To Gain Sympathy

Are you still trying to gain sympathy...and is it working?