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#1
03-21-2007, 03:06 PM
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Knouzm in Brazil
Hey, guess what? I just found that Knouzm has now a representative in Brazil.
I called and convinced him to go out to test the baby bellow which he sells. http://knouzm.net/en/dis-300.html I don't think I will have time to travel to another state just to do this , so I will contact one of my team members who live closer to know if he can do it. I asked the representative to receive the manual in my email. Price is 'bitter' like any Knouzm. 
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#2
03-21-2007, 06:12 PM
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Very interesting.
I just read the manual and it works by temperature comparisons. That is, this device is a digital infrared thermometer which measure soil/ground temperatures related to royal, noble metals which absorb heat and get warmer than the surrounding soil environment. It pocesses several laser beam patterns. What it does is that when pointed to a target, the infra red thermometer lens focus the energy colected onto a sensor. Then, this is translated into a voltage signal which is directly proportional to the received energy amount. This is all done by an internal microprocessor which displays values which guide the user to know the target's location and the depth it might be. For caves, the opposite is performed, which gives a lower temperature then the average surrounding. You turn the detector on , measure the temp in 4 directions, (N, S, E, W) and then with this computed value you start the search. Although I find very plausible its working method, I have doubts it will work all the time, regarding different soil conditions, but I will try to see if my team member spends an afternoon testing the unit. If if proves ok, it will be a good mate for my Mineoro, specially because this laser device is supposed to work better at night.
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#3
03-21-2007, 06:47 PM
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DIS-300
Hi Hung :
i hope you can test this laser device , and get back with the test field results. i was interested to own a laser device like : Dis-300, i have alot of treasure locations i must test them out . pls if you have the manual , is it possible to send me a copy ....  Best Regrads
__________________
M o r r i S
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#4
03-21-2007, 08:43 PM
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Post your email and I'll send it to you. I found the manual to be more of an advertising brochure than a manual itself. English is bad written and confusing. Anyway my interest on it is also to pile information on the technology necessary for me to make the ionic fields viewable in the field. Note that this model DS 300 is probably outdated since Kellyco is selling the DS600. I might be wrong tough. Fact is the Knouzm price is so outrageous that I will even bother to mention it.
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#5
03-22-2007, 10:21 AM
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C.R.A.P. + C.R.A.P. = C.R.A.P.
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#6
03-22-2007, 03:37 PM
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More than you wanted to know about Infrared thermometers (Long Post Warning)
The "Laser Gun (DIS 300) device detecting for Gold, Treasures and Caves" is actually an infrared thermometer that appears to be an instrument manufactured by Oakton Instruments in Illinois, or a very close copy of one. Oakton's Infrapro line of infrared thermometers used a laser beam to indicate where the sensor was aimed at, along with a circle of 9 laser beams to define the limits of the spot where the temperature was being sampled. They discontinued this model and returned to a single laser beam to indicate where the sensor is pointed. The new models are the same as the old models, except for the 9 perimeter lasers were removed, and the center laser was changed to a brighter beam. Do you suppose these LRL vendors began selling surplus discontinued inventory at the same time Oakton and other manufactures stopped selling the old units with the "ring of laser beams"? Isnt Knouzm is now marketing a treasure sensing thermometer with a ring of 9 laser lights, with claims that there is a ".g" and a ".c" indicator that tells the presence of gold and caves?
I am familiar with infrared thermometers, as I have used them for years to make preliminary surveys in buildings for warm and cold areas in connection with locating sources of leaks and moisture intrusion. I can guarantee that Oakton Instruments never included any gold or cave sensors in their thermometers, nor did any other thermometer manufacturer that I know of. Yet these infrared thermometers could be useful in finding treasures under certain conditions. I have never used an infrared thermometer to try to locate treasure, but from my experience in locating framing behind walls, cold draft locations, and damp areas, I can see some possible uses in treasure hunting: 1. If a cave has a warm or cold draft exiting from its mouth, and the thermometer is within range, then you will see that the temperature is different than the surrounding areas. This does not guarantee you found a cave, but it is a temperature anomaly that could be a cave. It could also be a damp area of soil where ground water has come to the surface, or a number of other things that would cause a different temperature in that location. 2. If you are surveying an area closer than 50 meters, these thermometers could be used to search for warm and cool spots on the ground or hillside. A warm or cool spot does not equal treasure. It means only that a spot is warm or cool. If you find a spot that is warmer or cooler than the surrounding area, this could be for a number of reasons: In the hot sun, dark colored surfaces are usually warmer than light colored surfaces. Also, damp surfaces are usually cooler than dry surfaces. The most likely way to find an anomaly under the surface is when the surface temperature changes. ie: Suppose the clouds move to cover an area that was in the hot sun for several hours. After maybe 10 minutes in the shade, the surface will start to lose it's heat. If there is some large object under the surface (or on the surface) that has a different specific heat than the surrounding surface, then it will lose heat at a different rate, and you will be able to sense it as a different temperature after the area has been cooling for a sufficient amount of time. This principle could also work to find a cold spot in an area that was shaded for a long time, and was suddenly exposed to the sun. The thermometer could also show areas that retained residual heat into the night after the surrounding areas cooled. Another use for infrared thermometers could be to follow cold drafts or trails of dampness to their source, if it was thought that this could help find a treasure. How sensitive is the infrared thermometer? The models sold by knouzm and Kellyco will indicate 1/10 of a degree change. The absolute temperature can be calibrated if necessary, but This is of little use to the average treaure hunter on foot. The necessary temperature range in the field would be probably from -10C to 200C, but you would most likely find temperatures from 10C to 70C in normal use. Data logging features are of little use in the field unless you need to log a number of temperatures over a period of time, as in timed temperature changes as an engine heats up. Do these thermometers detect buried gold? Not gold specifically. They could detect any metal or other substance that retains heat differently than the surrounding soil. This includes iron, copper, brass, silver, lead, water, wood, a hollow cavern, or practically anything different than the surrounding soil. What do infrared thermometers really cost? It depends on what features you want. What is nice about these thermometers is that a very cheap model gives 0.1 degree resolution, and shows very subtle changes in temperature over a surface. I use a 0.1 degree resolution model for preliminary surveys before getting out the infrared cameras to make thermal images of a surface. You can buy a new infrared thermometer for $20 to $100 on ebay that has the same resolution as some of the $650 industrial models, but lacks the extra data-logging and other features. Why do the industrial infrared thermometers cost up to $700 or more? Because they include a number of features that are expensive. Here are some of these extra features that raise the cost of an infrared thermometer: 1. Higher D:S ratio, or narrower angle where the beam is focused (this means you can sense the temperature of a smaller spot from a distance without needing to move closer to the spot). 2. Extra lasers to tell where the sensor is focused (helps to insure you are measuring on target). 3. Higher temperature range - up to 900C 4. Provisions to calibrate to traceable standards for accurate absolute temperatures. 5. Data logging electronics to remember previous measurements that were made. 6. Thermocouple input port for dual sensing mode 7. Data output ports for computer logging applications You will notice that none of these advanced features are very useful to the treasure hunter on foot except maybe having a narrower sensor beam width. Most $39.95 thermometers have the exact same 0.1 resolution as the expensive industrial models. And since all we want to do is find anomalies, the resolution and D:S ratio are all that really count. If you wanted the ultimate in the knouzm class of infrared thermometers, you could buy a new Oakton model for under $650 that has more buttons and controls than you need. Or, for a little more than a Knouzm thermometer, you could buy a thermal imaging camera (starting at about $7000), that will show you a camera-like thermal image of the scene you're are looking at. Now let's look at the Kellyco thermometers. The DIS600 pro is not from the same manufacturer as the Knouzm thermometer. The Kellyco DIS600 is manufactured by Cole Parmer. In the Cole Parmer catalog, we see they no longer sell their 16-point laser circle model, as this has been replaced by a new, improved 2-point rotating spot lasers that indicate the exact distance to focus for the best target resolution. However, Kellyco is selling you a lot of other expensive features that the average treasure hunter has no use for, such as: Hi/low alarms, max/min temp, -diff, average, data output, and 100 point data logging. How would a treasure hunter in the field use these features? Aren't they more appropriate for a factory environment? Kellyco does not reveal the most important features of any of these thermometers, the resolution and spot-to-distance ratio. But no problem, the Cole Parmer catalog shows that all their infrared thermometers have 0.1 degree resolution and lists the spot-to-distance ratios. So even if these are discontinued Cole Parmer thermometers, they should have 0.1C resolution. It seems that the current model Cole Parmer thermometers with similar specifications cost less than the Kellyco price. However, a Cole Parmer thermometer without the un-needed features cost in the $600-700 range. After seeing what is available from Kellyco and knouzm, I wonder if the $100 ebay thermometers can do just as good a job at locating temperature anomalies as their "treasure hunting" thermometers. If your "team member" decides to test the knouzm thermometer, why not take along a $100 ebay thermometer to compare the results. Do you think the $6000 knouzm thermometer can out-perform the ebay thermometer in locating temperature anomalies in the soil? If you are interested in shopping for an infrared thermometer to use in treasure hunting, there are only 3 specifications that I would look for: 1. Temperature range should be at least from freezing to boiling temperature (most are a lot more than this). 2. Resolution should be better than 0.3 degree. 3. Distance to spot ratio: Higher is better. With a ratio of 8:1, you can measure the temperature of a 1 meter circle from 8 meters away. A 50:1 ratio allows you to measure the same 1 meter circle from 50 meters way. When looking for temperature deviations at close distances the ratio does not matter, but a high ratio can save you a lot of walking if you want to scan a large area for hot/cold spots. You can be sure the price goes up beyond $39.95 as the D:S ratio goes up above 12:1. Here are some fun links if you are interested in infrared thermometers: See the knouzm price list for many treasure hunting devices. They list the "Laser Gun (DIS 300)" inrfared thermometer at $6000: http://www.knouzm.org/index.php?modu...896269140-1216 See the prices on the discontinued 9-spot Oakton laser models that are no longer available. (Their most expensive model may still be available for $649, but if not, you can still buy one of the new models with the single brighter laser for the same $649 or less: http://www.innocalsolutions.com/cata...&trs=undefined http://www.innocalsolutions.com/cata...&trs=undefined http://www.innocalsolutions.com/cata...&trs=undefined https://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/p....asp?cls=43115 See what the 9 laser spots are for here: http://www.4oakton.com/SellSheets/te.../Temp%20B2.pdf See pictures of the discontinued Oaktron 9-laser thermometer shooting out it's beams: http://www.4oakton.com/SellSheets/te.../Temp%20B2.pdf Read how the new method of laser technology makes the old "circle of laser spots" method of range-finding obsolete: http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...sp?sku=3975520 See a lot of industrial infrared thermometer models here with specifications. Do you see any here that look suspiciously similar to the knouzm and Kellyco models but at a much lower price? http://www.innocalsolutions.com/cata...rm_brchure.pdf See the ebay cheap infrared thermometers here. (Be sure to check out the specs before buying one of these): http://search.ebay.com/infrared-ther...tsearchZSearch ps. I see there is a fluke 68 for sale used on ebay for current bid of $76. They sell new for just under $500 and have a 50:1 D:S ratio and 0.1 degree resolution. http://cgi.ebay.com/Fluke-68-infrare...QQcmdZViewItem
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#7
03-22-2007, 04:55 PM
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Dicky Spy
Well Hung, are these new devices bothered with Dicky Spy, like Mineoro
Delbert
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#8
03-22-2007, 04:59 PM
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Thanks for your insights JPlayer,
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I'll check that, better, I'll have my friend check that when he test the device. Quote:
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Great links thanks again. In fact if you could test these thermoneters for Thuning, we could compare results with this DIS300 unit and see if there's any and in this case see what kind of modifications Knouzm claims to have made to allow that, if this proves true.
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#9
03-22-2007, 05:18 PM
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Excellent! Very accurate and useful Information, JPlayer. Thanks!
I don't know of any specific temperature that would discriminate Gold, from other anomalies either. The temperature can vary depending on several factors, so there really is no way of knowing the difference in the temperature between that of Gold, a Rock, or any other anomaly that I am aware of. I might add that there would be no differential in temperature if the Gold is buried more than a few inches below the surface, or in a wet envoirmen. In my opinion, it is an impractical method to search for nobel metals. Dell
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#10
03-22-2007, 05:24 PM
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Anyway all of those questions will be answered as soon as I get a field report of the unit.
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Hybrid Mode
