Magnacast 5000

[Mike(Mont)]

Just curious if anyone has any info on the Magnacast 5000 from Vernell Electronics at http://www.vrdetectors.com This locator unit has an electronic receiver. I spoke to someone who owns one and he said you can also use L-rods with it. This person said he had used other LRL equipment, some he had bought from K****co metal detector distributor, but the Magnacast worked.

[Mike(Mont)]

I guess I am wondering what is "Forward Gauss"?

[svenax]

I'm wondering that too. I also noticed an awful lot of trademarked terms on their site, such as "scan gun" and "standard six". A quick search on the US patent Office site shows that none of the terms indicated as trademarks - not even the company name - were in fact registered. Now, that has no relevance for if the machine works or not, but I think it is a bit strange nonetheless. But perhaps I as a foreigner don't understand how US trademarks work.

[J_Player]

In the USA, we have 50 separate states which have their own registries for corporations and trademarks, as well as the federal government which is a separate entity from any state. When a trademark is registered in a single state, it becomes protected in that state, but a federal trademark registration will protect a trademark in all 50 states.

Since Vernell electronics is located in Saratosa Florida, we can check VERNELL ELECTRONICS, INC at the Florida Division of Corporations web page: http://www.sunbiz.org/corinam.html

At the Florida Division of Corporations website, we find two entries for VERNELL ELECTRONICS, INC. Both are registered to WILLIAM DUNNING at 7224 EDENVILLE DRIVE, SARASOTA FL 34243. The first entry shows inactive status with the last corporate event being ADMIN DISSOLUTION FOR ANNUAL REPORT on the date of 10-01-2004. We also find a document that shows the name was changed to Bill Dunning, Inc. on June 24, 2003. The second entry for VERNELL ELECTRONICS, INC shows that on 9-06-2006, the corporation was reactivated.

When we repeat the same search for trademarks, we find that none of the trademarks listed on the Vernell website are registered with the state of Florida. The appearance is that it is not true that these trademarks are registered. It may be possible they are registered with some other agency, but not with the State of Florida or the US federal government.

"Forward gauss" does not exist in any science that utilizes magnetism except on the web page of Vernell Electronics. It appears that William Dunning made up this word and published it on his web page with a trademark symbol next to it in order to make people believe it is a registered proprietary technology rather than a word he made up.

When we look at the products William Dunning is selling, they appear to be suspiciously similar to some products that were tested by Carl, and were determined not to find treasures. What is different about the Dunning detectors is they contain electronic boxes with more sophisticated displays connected to the same equipment as other LRL manufacturers sell.

I have to wonder if these detectors can really locate anything as claimed by William Dunning. He has detailed a number of metal detecting technologies that most electronics engineers and geophysists have never heard of. I wonder if it is a good idea to test his machines before paying money for one of them. If William Dunning's detectors actually work, perhaps he would be willing to offer a money-back guarantee if you are not satisfied that they are finding the gold, siver and diamonds that he claims they will locate.

[Mike(Mont)]

Actually I was hoping to hear from someone who had actually used one. I'm not interested in personal attacks--the trademark is of no concern to me because I am not a competing manufacturer. I read an old post that Carl had a VR2000. This appears to be an earlier version of the Magnacast. He said he couldn't get it to work. That alone means nothing to me. The unit could be malfunctioning, or like me on a bad day I can't get a metal detector to work all that well.

I've done a websearch on "Forward Gauss" and all I came up with was some mathematical formulas that I don't understand, but it doesn't appear that Vernon Rose "made up" this term. He developed the Forward Gauss technology before there was MFD. Dell said he used one.

[J_Player]

Hi Mike(Mont),
If you re-read what I have written, you will find there are no personal attacks against anyone. I am also interested to learn whether this device works, and what is "forward gauss". Since there is little information for either of these questions, the only clues we have are to research the source and discover the facts around the devices and the people who developed them. The registries of the State of Florida and US Patent Office contain records, not attacks. These records are dependable for establishing the dates that certain events occurred, such as registering a trademark, patent, or corporation. They do not rely on hearsay, which is subject to making an error from lapse of memory, or falsification. When a person publishes any document where they are claiming a trademark, we expect they own that trademark. Thus, we would expect William Dunning owns the trademarks he claims to have registered.

However, I cannot find any sign that he owns these trademarks at all. Nowhere in the Florida, or the US government patent office. With no information on where this "trademarked" technology came from, it seems reasonable to suspect maybe Bill Dunning made it up. According to your statement, this suspicion is correct:

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

He developed the Forward Gauss technology before there was MFD.

It is not a personal attack to say that it appears Bill Dunning made up "forward gauss". It is simply a statement that this appears to be the source of where "forward gauss" came from, and it helps to answer the question that three of us have been wondering in our above posts. And this may be a false appearance if it is discovered some other person originated the term and technology. "Forward Gauss" very definitely is not a registered trademark in the US Patent office or the State of Florida. This is a simple matter of historical fact.

The math formulas you found in your search are not related to any work done by Bill Dunning. The math formulas relate to the Gauss-Siedel method of smoothing when using multigrid applications to solve linear systems associated with elliptical partial differential equations. In simple terms, it is a mathematical method to solve a calculus equation. It has no relation to metal detection or long range locating. This leads me to believe that Bill Dunning is the source of the concept and terminology of "forward gauss" as it relates to long range locating.

[Dell Winders]

We define the forward flow of information for a. transmission delay d E N, as ... Gauss-Markov source the optimal nonanticipatory chan- ...

Jplayer, I don't if this means anything, but a quick search on Google brought up several headers listed about Forward Gauss transmission, Unfortunatly they don't link to any information. But, apparently Forward Gauss transmission is not a term invented by Dunning, as your expertise suggests. Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,
Yes, it means something. The reference you posted is one of many references that shows there is no other source of the term "Forward Gauss" other than William Dunning.

First, your allegation is false:

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Forward Gauss transmission is not a term invented by Dunning, as your expertise suggests. Dell

The actual information shown on the Vernell website says the Magnacast5000 uses "FORWARD GAUSS technology". It makes no mention of any sort of gauss transmissions, nor did anyone else in this thread except you.

Secondly, you reference a paper quoting the "Gauss-Markov source" and drag a number of words out of context to assemble them as you see fit to prove your point. Are you aware that the Gauss-Markov source has nothing to do with forward or backward gauss or magnetism in general? Is it possible that the "Gauss-Markov source" in reality relates to programming source code and models used to minimize coding/decoding losses in low bit-rate data transmission of video signals? Is there some reason you failed to include the other references that tell exactly what "Gauss-Markov source" is? Anyone who reads the reports that reference Gauss-Markov source will quickly understand that this is a programmers source code model, not a technology. It is totally unrelated to metal detecting or LRL construction, and in fact there is no mention in any of those papers of "Forward Gauss" whatsoever. Read about "Gauss-Markov source" used as a programmer's coding/decoding model here:
http://www.arehna.di.uoa.gr/Eusipco2...ers/cr1263.pdf
http://www.data-compression.com/vq.shtml
http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~signal/Nsip99/papers/57.pdf

The appearance is this is another deliberate attempt where Dell is trying to interject misinformation to this discussion of "Forward Gauss". Or am I wrong? Is Dell so technically impaired that he can only post references that do not link to any information?

Now having established that Dell's reference is bogus, this still does not help us to understand what is "Forward Gauss", or whether the Magnacast 5000 works. This is because we have used process of elimination which left only William Dunning as the probable person who made up that term and technology. I suggest that instead of presuming what seems obvious, we should get the actual facts.

Why not let William Dunning come to the forum and give us the facts. He obviously knows the whole story about "Forward Gauss" and its trademarks, and his other LRL device trademarks. He can also give us more insight into how to use his LRL devices and satisfy us that they work or don't work before we consider buying one of them.

[Clondike Clad]

on that misinformation.
We are lucky to have some smart people on this forum.

[Mike(Mont)]

Figured I ought to post this. I modified the Magnacast 5000 (VR5000) with a fine tuner on the RSL control. I used a 5K three-turn pot in line with the original 1M pot. This greatly improves the tuning but I wish I had gone with a 10K ten-turn. Now I can set the RSL as close as possible to threshold then fine tune it so it is slightly over threshold--one click per second is recommended. I could never come close to this previously. Either there was no clicking or clicking much too fast. From what I can see in the photos, the VR2000 uses the same receiver (not sure about this).

[ALEX.356]

A year and a half has passed, dear friends, and nobody is interested in this subject anymore ???
Nobody has purchased this contraption , and has no experience gained with it ???
Mike's last post is leting me believe that he owns one and tries to modify it , too.
BUT I would expect to read more about results obtained with it , performance , what the cost is e.t.c.

Kind regards,

Alex

[J_Player]

The Magnacast 5000 is sold at the Vernell Electronics website for $3350, but is on special sale for $1802.50: https://vernellelectronics.safenetse...TOKEN=90283851

Or you can buy one in Turkey for 4.150 EUR here: http://defineyurdu.alfahosting.org/i...=58&Itemid=123

Maybe there are no new posts about the Magnacast 5000 because nobody wanted to pay $1801.50 US or 4.150 EU to find out if they work or not.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

Hi Alex,

I saw your post but have been working long hours and not much time to reply.

The VR5000 Magnacast is a powerful unit. Maybe 50 or 100 times more powerful than the frequency generators I have used. The electronic reciever is fairly accurate, but L-rods are better for pinpointing. I found I can hold my arms out (parallel with the signal line) and feel it without even using the receiver. I first noticed this when using the receiver I would feel something similar to an electric current running through me (mainly in my hands). I haven't been out with it much but I did get out to a city park earlier this year and found a couple gold items.

Like any treasure hunting equipment, it takes practice to learn how to use it. I know some skeptics think they should be able to use one without any practice, but this is just due to their inflated ego. I spent quite a few hours learning. One thing about it is you can put a visible target out and work with it until you get it right but eventually you need to practice on a hidden target.

Probably the biggest down side to the unit besides being sensitive to interference is it takes quite a while for the signal line to develop enough for the electronic receiver to detect it. The instructions say to wait fifteen minutes after the power is turned on. If you know how to use L-rods, you can pick up the signal line MUCH quicker, like one minute.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Hi Alex,
If you know how to use L-rods, you can pick up the signal line MUCH quicker, like one minute.

Exactly how long does it take to "know how to use L-rods"?

What is involved in the "knowing process"?

How do you "know" when you have accomplished that level of knowing?

If you don't know how to use L-rods, will that keep the so-called signal lines from EVER materializing?

[Mike(Mont)]

This thread is ten years old. Wish I could say I am richer. Sure feel older.

[Agraz]

someone already has a diagram of magnacast 2000 or 5000, it seems that no longer exists the company Vernell electronics.