Mineoro Challenge... maybe

[Carl-NC]

The following email was received 9/27/2006. It was sent as a Word document attachment, so I have reproduced it here as closely as possible.

mineoro ™

From: MINEORO ®
DAMÁSIO, J.P.F.
To: Eng. Carl Moreland

EXORDIUM

This is the second time I am addressing to you. The first time I tried to briefly explain the ‘ionic/electrostatic’ phenomena.
This is a “Damasio&Alonso” ™ scientific discovery, properly registered and filed and partly still unknown by the International Scientific Community.
Albert Einstein, the great genius, once refering to this phenomenon said - “Science will have to deal with this phenomenon”.
I am sending this message with one aim. To clarify certain discomforts occurring in several countries due to the unfair approach your forum site : http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/
covers the detectors from mineoro ™.

Before entering this subject, the topics will be parted for ease of editing in order to make the theme intelligible.

TOPICS:

1. Introduction – Exordium;
2. Comprising Coment;
3. Who we are;
4. Of Science and Technology;
5. From the Academies; From Universities;
6. The inventions;
7. About the ethics of your site ‘Geotech’;
8. Legal issues; Legislations; International Treatises; The
© Copyright;

COMPRISING COMENT:

As referred in Exordium, there are several negative comments; countless questions; negative critics; unacceptable ethics; and more, towards the “mineoro” ™ Trade mark as well as the involvement of my own name Damásio – which unacceptable statements have origin in http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/
administered by you.
It’s away from my knowledge the reason why Eng.Carl Morelandcreated such tool for these objurgations.
However in such site, several articles and isolated paragraphs about the “MINEORO”® corporation and his founder: Damásio, J.P.F. can be found. Comments and inferences about the long range locators operated by the “Ionic/Electrostatic”® phenomena.
Although some written material are positive, the major part sums bitter critics, pejorative and disrespectful inferences. Some even criminal by its intent. In face of this annoying situation, and as the director of my company, I come forward to manifest myself and to analyze every topic published in your site.

WHO WE ARE

THE MINEORO ® CORP.

MINEORO – Indústria Eletrônica Ltda., is a company situated in Brazil with its existence dating back to 1954. It manufactures electronic security systems. Security revolving doors, metal detectors (Arcos), security electronic cabins and other related products.
We produce and manufacture metal detectors for miners and treasure hunting since 1954. They are ‘two-boxes’ and coil models. The long range directional locators exist since 1985 with the launching of the DCH85M. In Brazil, we have thousands and thousands of revolving doors with portal type metal detectors granting bank security. Statistics show that 45,000,000 (forty five million) people pass though those doors daily. We export those systems to many countries. This is a ‘family-like’ organization.
The registered trademark of “MINEORO” ® is therefore a public well-kown trademark not only in Brazil but overseas as well.

Our industrial plant is provided with 3 (three) electronics and technology labs, 1 (one) carpenter workshop for furniture production with 42 top of line machines, 1 mechanics workshop with lathes, press, electric drillers and all adequate tools to projects and industrial production as well as all industrial and commercial structure in a 16,000 square feet plant. We have more than 100 employees who work on a daily basis. This is the internal environment of “MINEORO” ®.
In the outside area we have more than 25 offices with technicians and in charge managers for sales and post sales. The company is run by the family Damásio. Sons and Grandsons.

ABOUT SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

The administrators of this organization have long been intellectuals who covered higher education, entailed to University and College under several countries’ official support. In 1984 , we presented the new invention to NASA, being examined at the time by north american and foreign scientists. Several NASA scientists agreed to recognize it was a new phenomenon which deserved an in depth study.

In the 1980 decade, we were honored with a formal ‘mention’ by the american military ‘attaché’ for the south american hemisphere Cel. Wallis, referred by the White House, with a special commend to inventors Alonso&Damásio.
This american officer joined the inventors with also a research group which among others a British Councellor, Mr. John Baldwin, descendent of the Baldwin noble family, took part.
In the researched site 30 (thirty) targets were detected in 10(ten) minutes! When excavated, several gold and silver pieces were recovered such as:

• Gold coins; gold brooches; silver jewelry and others –joining the group there was a 12 year old little boy who had an american made conventional VLF MD at the time. This boy happened to be Cel. Wallis’s son.

The american born officer Cel. Wallis, impressed at what he was witnessing regarding the results compared to the conventional detector shouted loud and clear:

• “incredible, Mr. Damásio!”;
• “wonderful, Mr. Damásio!”;
• “I don’t belive, it’s incredible, Mr. Damásio!”

The “ionic electrostátic”® detector used in this research was a prototype of the DCH85M, introduced to the international market in1985.

FROM ACADEMIES; FROM UNIVERSITIES

Knowing is the addition of Data collection that when interacting with intern agents generate Information, and those also intern agents generate Knowledge.
The collection of Knowledge, generates Wisdom.

SCIENCE divides the human activities in 3 (three) main areas :

1. Biomedical Science activities
2. Social Sciences activities and
3. Exact Sciences activities

We, from “MINEORO”®, belong to the Exact Sciences area. All project; all research activity; all hypothesis; all theory has to pursue Academy support. Without the Academy/Company interactions, any attempt in materializing an invention would be destined to failure.
So, that’s how we searched the Academy for the information to substantiate the great discovery for this new phenomenon we called:
• “Ionic/Electrostatic Field” ®.

OF THE INVENTIONS

Invention is the action from inventing or creating something new in the realms of science, technology or in the field of arts. It’s to search a mean or agent in order to reach an end, a new discovery with specific objectives.
The company “MINEORO” ® Corporation has estabilished a Premiss, which is:

• “To invent a sensor that was capable of receiving signals/waves derived from cosmic propagations, atmospheric propagations and also from propagations from the center of the Earth. Classify these signals/waves and determine from which substance this signal/wave is broadcasted.”

Today, September 17th, 2006, we inform that the inventors Damásio &Alonso worked in the past and still do for 50 plus years aiming to perfect the new phenomena’s concepts :

• “Ionic/Electrostatic Field” ®.

The long range electronic directional detectors were introduced to the international market in 1985. This first electronic model was called - DCH85M.
This model was built to detect the Ionic/electrostatic ® fields of 3 (three) substances: -

• gold, silver and copper; or these substances melted together.

In 1999, a new model was introduced to the international market. This was the PDC205. This particular device was more sensitive than the previous one. It used to detect at a greater distance and greater depth.
Then a pleasant surprise!
An Israeli army officer located the first big treasure using our Directional Detectors based on the “ionic/electrostatic” ® phenomenon:

• A gold statue measuring 5 (five) feet high, weighing around 660 (six hundred and sixty) pounds of solid gold.

DEPTH: - 84 (EIGHTY FOUR) FEET DEEP.
From this date on, march/2001, several targets were located with the directional detectors. In fact, hundreds of treasure researchers found countless sites containing gold bars, jewels, coins, boxes full of gold and silver objects, several gold veins. Several (more than six) big treasures were found in rivers and in the ocean. Shipwrecks dating back to 15th and 16th centuries.
There are also several researchers who found objects ranging from small to medium to big treasures but they want to remain anonymous for personal reasons. So far, this report is only part of the occurrences covering the daily dynamic basis of MINEORO’s ® daily routine. Some negative facts? Sure there are. Many, as we will cover next.

ABOUT THE ETHICS OF www.geotech.thunthing.com

At - www.thunting.com/geotech/forums - featuring CARL MORELAND as administrator, several messages were posted acidly criticizing the MINEORO ® trademark as well as his inventor and co-inventor DAMÁSIO.
We have never until now received any inquiry asking for explanations or to scientifically clarify queries about our products and its concepts.
Being CARL MORELAND the site administrator and also an engineer as you claimed, and based on the fact previously stated that the DAMASIO family has a vocational background and has all answers supported by the Academy – College, Universities and Science related Foundations, we feel a terrible discomfort upon watching certain posts and related material found in your site above.

Serious, and they cause us extreme rejection, are comments by some people, supposedly members of this forum whom texts are unacceptable! Postings with no ethics whatsoever. Posts which demonstrate their authors far surpass the limits of ignorance.
It’s our policy: MINEORO ® does not answer letters, emails, and other messages if they do not meet the correct ethics, respect and most important, in the sciences realm. Being PHYSICS, in experimental science, each and every inquiry, doubt, etc is properly answered conforming the scientific knowledge.

END OF PART ONE

PART TWO

In this section we will cover the following topics:

1. Law and Rights; about International Legislation; about International Treatises;
about © Copyright.
2. The challenge from MINEORO ® :

US$ 50,000.00

WE WILL PAY US$ 50,000.00 (FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS) to whoever proves the directional detectors below:

• PDC 205;
• PDC 210;
• HC 300;
• DC 2008;
• FG 79; e,
• FG 80,
• IGD2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent Gold Detector-just for gold)
• DIAS2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent All Substances Detector)

Do not detect according theDamásio&Alonso © research method.
A contract will be signed between parts and properly published to the general public.
Looking forward to your answer.
Respectfully,
mineoro ©
DAMÁSIO, J. P. F.
DIRECTOR PRES.
TECNÓLOGO ENG.
INVENTOR

[Carl-NC]

My reply, sent 9/28/2006:

Mr. Damásio,

In your "challenge", you state that:

WE WILL PAY US$ 50,000.00 (FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS) to whoever proves the directional detectors below:

• PDC 205;
• PDC 210;
• HC 300;
• DC 2008;
• FG 79; e,
• FG 80,
• IGD2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent Gold Detector-just for gold)
• DIAS2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent All Substances Detector)

Do not detect according theDamásio&Alonso © research method.

This leaves plenty of wiggle-room. In the contract are you willing to state EXACTLY what the detector will detect (i.e., gold), and EXACTLY the physical method by which it operates?

Next, would you be willing to submit a unit to an independent 3rd party for testing and analysis? I suggest one of the NASA research centers, since you seem to be fond of NASA. I'm sure one of them has experts in ion detection.

If you are not willing to submit a unit for independent testing, then exactly what will you accept as proof? If I obtain a Mineoro device and conclusively show that it WILL NOT respond to ions or electric fields, is that sufficient? I also notice you did not include the GDM428 in the list. Will you explicitly allow it? What about other discontinued models?

Of course, the easiest model to debunk is the IGD2005, which is nothing but a silly dowsing rod. So if you'll agree to send an IGD2005 to a NASA expert, then I will find out who that person is, and we can proceed. I'll also post your letter on my forum, so that other Mineoro owners can apply for the challenge as well (it did not seem to be specific to me). I hope you don't surprise us with some kind of ridiculous "entry fee".

Finally, you never did get back with me on the $25,000 LRL challenge. I understand you will be visiting the US in the near future. I expect you will be eager to accept my challenge before you come, and demonstrate your device during your visit.

Regards,
Carl

I have received no reply from Mineoro. Perhaps this will be like their email "accepting" my $25,000 LRL Challenge... they'll just drop it, and refuse to reply.

In the unlikely case that Mineoro's offer is serious, then this would be a very easy $50,000 to win, and I would like to accept their challenge. I eagerly await their response.

- Carl

P.S. -- Mineoro's challenge is clearly open to everyone -- "to whoever proves" -- so anyone who owns a Mineoro (limited, I assume, to the models listed) can take them up on their offer.

[okantex]

AFTER ı WROTE MY MASSAGE TO IVCONİC ,I READ THİS PRİCE LATTER.

SİNCE I SOLVE THE REALLYTY OF THİS DETECTİON.
THİS İS NOT MİNEORO'S CALİM'S.EVERYBODY SEE ,İT İS DİFFERENT.
SO ,WİTH A DİFFERENT THEORY.I AM THE OWNER OF 50,000 DOLLARS

DOMASİO ,I WAİTİNG FOR REWARD.

"IF YOU SAY YOUR THEORY İS WRONG WHİCH İS ALSO MEANS
EMFAD İS NOT WORKİNG."
NO YOU CAN NOT CLAİM SUCH A BOGUS
EVERYBODY KNOW İT İS WORKİNG AS DİRECTİONAL RECİEVER


************************************************** *****

Hi Ivconic ,Esteban and Michael,
I was thinking about zahori
and emfad
you know emfad recieves signals reflected by metals .it has directional
antenna that just recieves from underground.while passing over target.
it is a wide range reciever and gets different frequencies at the same time
.
adjustment of EMFAD from
http://ammann-direkt.de/assets/s2dma...ac1067105.html

"
Use the tuning knob ‘B’ to detect a local maximum and adjust as
accurate as possible. Adjust gain ‘C’ so that the pointer of the display
instrument (meter) is in the centre position. The highest reading will be
the local maximum. In case the pointer moves all the way to the limit,
you will have to readjust gain ‘C’ again to a centre position and continue
with the adjustment for the local maximum. Then hold the equipment
vertically and once again use the gain ‘C’ to adjust the pointer to a
centre position.
• In case no local maximum can be detected turn the unit by 90° on the
horizontal level and search the area again.
"


but zahori looks like a little bit different.
it 's frequency is between 10 hrz and 1000hrz
but not wide band .
you start from 10 hertz and trace down till you find a frequency ( or 1000 hrz to 10 hertz)
(any frequency.,one frequency of a transmitter (base station near)that is behind of user.)
then you reduce frequency to find (recieve ) any reflection of previous
frequency.

WHY MINEORE İNSİST ON NORTH TO SOUTH SEARCH?
fOR ME İT İS THEİR FAULT OF THİNKİNG
AT THE NORTH OF BRAZİL (WHERE MİNEORO SETTLES) THERE ARE LOTS OF USA NAVY BASE s. MAYBE ONE OF THEM ,MAYBE ALl OF THEM PROPAGATEs this low frequency


look at this chart



Extremely low frequencyELF13–30 Hz
100,000 km – 10,000 kmCommunication with submarinesSuper low frequencySLF230–300 Hz
10,000 km – 1000 kmCommunication with submarinesUltra low frequencyULF3300–3000 Hz
1000 km – 100 kmCommunication within minesVery low frequencyVLF43–30 kHz
100 km – 10 kmSubmarine communication, avalanche beacons, wireless heart rate monitorsLow frequencyLF530–300 kHz
10 km – 1 kmNavigation, time signals, AM longwave broadcasting


and ivconic
at gisco home page there is a new unit called WADI to find water at 100meters ..work at 10-30khz .

IF YOU SAY ZAHORİ 'S FREQUENCY İS TOO LOW
YOU WİLL TELL TO US WHAT TO DO FOR ANY FREQUENCY RANGE THAT WE COULD DECİDE.
MAYBE 44-142KHZ
OR ANY FROM LİST ABOVE.

now you know my idea
please tell me why this can not be done while emfad can do this.
Attached Images

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

In the unlikely case that Mineoro's offer is serious, then this would be a very easy $50,000 to win, and I would like to accept their challenge. I eagerly await their response.

Carl, It's serious.
Damasio is positive about the discovery Alonso and him did wich is trully a revolution and can't stand seeing Mineoro trademark be treated like it is in this forum I guess.

Next, would you be willing to submit a unit to an independent 3rd party for testing and analysis? I suggest one of the NASA research centers, since you seem to be fond of NASA. I'm sure one of them has experts in ion detection.

They did send a unit to scientific analysis.
I have in my pocession a certificate emitted by the respected Nemko Insititute and Hursley EMC Services of England. A FG80 was sent to them recently for their research in terms of EM emission , electrostatics, etc.
They emitted a certificate of testing with the EMC directive 89/336/EEC.
The tests were performed in Hursley EMC Labs in Hamphsire. Period of 17th-18th August 2006.

Unfortunately the PDF file is 360 Kb and I cannot attach it in this forum which has a limit of 256Kb.

If you are not willing to submit a unit for independent testing, then exactly what will you accept as proof? If I obtain a Mineoro device and conclusively show that it WILL NOT respond to ions or electric fields, is that sufficient? I also notice you did not include the GDM428 in the list. Will you explicitly allow it? What about other discontinued models?

I already told many times. In late 2005 early 2006, several Mineoro detectors left the factory unitentionally with deffective ICs due to a bad manufacturer's lot. Unfortunately this was not traceable at the time. So they changed manufacturer and the customers who had faulty devices were contacted for a recall. The GDP, GDM series were discontinued about that time.

[hung]

Also included in this PDF file is a report of every test made and its results.
I tried to compress it but a PDF file would not copress much.
In case geotech cannot provide an increase in size for PDF files, you will have to wait a few days. Mineoro intends to provide this report in their site soon, I was told.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

Carl, It's serious.
Damasio is positive about the discovery Alonso and him did wich is trully a revolution and can't stand seeing Mineoro trademark be treated like it is in this forum I guess.

I sent them an email asking for clarification of their "challenge" over a week ago, and have yet to hear a peep from them. I suspect I never will. Much like last year, when they expressed interest in my LRL Challenge, then refused to answer my repeated emails.

They did send a unit to scientific analysis.
I have in my pocession a certificate emitted by the respected Nemko Insititute and Hursley EMC Services of England. A FG80 was sent to them recently for their research in terms of EM emission , electrostatics, etc.
They emitted a certificate of testing with the EMC directive 89/336/EEC.
The tests were performed in Hursley EMC Labs in Hamphsire. Period of 17th-18th August 2006.

They only test for EMI compliance, not whether the device actually works. I could send them a dead circuit, and it would pass EMI tests with flying colors.

Unfortunately the PDF file is 360 Kb and I cannot attach it in this forum which has a limit of 256Kb.

I've increased it to 600k.

I already told many times. In late 2005 early 2006, several Mineoro detectors left the factory unitentionally with deffective ICs due to a bad manufacturer's lot. Unfortunately this was not traceable at the time. So they changed manufacturer and the customers who had faulty devices were contacted for a recall. The GDP, GDM series were discontinued about that time.

So all those devices left the factory not working, and no one noticed? I wonder why Ed never received a recall notice?

- Carl

[hung]

Carl, I had a quick talk on the phone with Damasio this morning before I headed to my studio. Some points to clarify:

1 - Mineoro did not receive your email reply for an unkown reason. So Damasio authorized me to give you his private email which I will provide privately to you.

2 - No need to have NASA or any other third party to inspect the Mineoro detectors because THEY WILL NOT KNOW how it works. It's a NEW MODERN INVENTION which the scientific comunity is not aware of it yet. Only the inventors know how it works. They are researching this for 50 years. Damasio is writing a book about it and he told me maybe he intends to turn this knowledge public in the future. He will talk to his partner and to their inheriteds. Maybe in the future this discovery will be known. Not now.

3 - The EMC certificate is exactly that. It performs EM emissions and other waves. The detector was confirmed to work employing those principles also.
I will provide the PDF file to everybody check the tests and results. Really interesting.

4 - The IGD2005, IS NOT A DOWSING ROD! Although it employs 'dowsing' principles it utilizes the 'ionic wind' to detect and check the ionic field status.
I've seen him using it and it's truly amazing.

5 - Damasio intends to go to the USA next year for a full demonstration of the ionic/electrostatic method as he's busy right now in a big recovery operation. Also as already told, he suffers from diabethes. Let's hope he can make it.
He even told me to ask Carl where he lives cause he's almost positive he will find something (long time buried) in his area.

6 - If Carl happens to live in a place where humidity is low and it's far from the ocean, chances are this could be acomplished. There's always lost items such as rings, etc. in open areas.

7 - The demonstrations in USA will probably take place in the mountain areas or regions far from the ocean for best results. Salinization in beaches and areas close to shore are not the best conditions for detection to happen although if it's a large mass of gold, detection will happen anyway and in whatever conditions.

8 - Ed Merril has been already contacted by Mineoro in the past and he's receiving a new detector.

9 - The challenge is open to anybody. Further details of the contract will be released next.

10 - I do not have the intention to promote Mineoro. I don't work for them. However as I own their devices and know it works, my intention is to provide people explanations to their doubts and evidences of the working principle the best as I can. I also don't accept in anyway false allegations concerning Mineoro's reputation. I know them very well and I consider myself suitable to recommend them.

11 - Confirmed. The gentleman who went to Mineoro to buy a detector is indeed a F15 pilot. Now if he is on duty in Jordan or any other country in that area is unkwnon.

[hung]

This is the certificate emitted to Mineoro and the tests report.
Thanks Carl for increasing PDF file size.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

Carl, I had a quick talk on the phone with Damasio this morning before I headed to my studio. Some points to clarify:

1 - Mineoro did not receive your email reply for an unkown reason. So Damasio authorized me to give you his private email which I will provide privately to you.

I am well aware that Mineoro is blocking my regular email address. They have been doing so for about 2 years. So I use my thunting.com email, which I know they are receiving. They just won't answer.

2 - No need to have NASA or any other third party to inspect the Mineoro detectors because THEY WILL NOT KNOW how it works. It's a NEW MODERN INVENTION which the scientific comunity is not aware of it yet. Only the inventors know how it works.

What you are saying, is that Mineoro has a defacto alibi for not paying the $50,000 for "whoever proves the directional detectors...do not detect according the Damásio&Alonso research method." Since only Damásio & Alonso know the "method", and "the scientific comunity is not aware of it," then Mineoro has set up an impossible challenge!

3 - The EMC certificate is exactly that. It performs EM emissions and other waves. The detector was confirmed to work employing those principles also.

OK, I read the entire report. I was right, it was a test to see if the FG80 would pass EMI testing. As I said, a dead circuit will pass EMI testing as well.

They also tested the FG80 to see if external EMI would affect its "operation". The "operation" was simply to turn the device on and let it sit there. They found that ESD discharges would make it beep. Yes, I expect so. I've personally tested devices with an ESD gun up to 8kV, and I guarantee that I can make just about any circuit that has a speaker or a beeper, bark.

But here's the odd part... they also tested the FG80 with AM signals from 80MHz to 1GHz. They reported that the FG80 is "extremely sensitive across the range of radiated RF interference." Now, you and Mineoro have claimed these devices work on ions, and NOT RF. Yet users report that the devices seem to just randomly beep, and this EMI test confirms that the FG80 will just sit there and beep in response to RF signals. This is also what I found when I dissected the PDC205... it was actually designed to respond to RF signals.

Also, like I said, the lab did not test whether the FG80 actually worked or not. This is not the kind of evidence you should be posting if you want to support Mineoro. It only confirms what skeptics have been saying.

4 - The IGD2005, IS NOT A DOWSING ROD! Although it employs 'dowsing' principles it utilizes the 'ionic wind' to detect and check the ionic field status.

It's a dowsing rod. And absolute proof that Mineoro sells bogus devices, even if it turns out the non-dowsing devices actually work.

"Ionic wind"? Are you really serious?

5 - Damasio intends to go to the USA next year for a full demonstration of the ionic/electrostatic method as he's busy right now in a big recovery operation. Also as already told, he suffers from diabethes. Let's hope he can make it.
He even told me to ask Carl where he lives cause he's almost positive he will find something (long time buried) in his area.

6 - If Carl happens to live in a place where humidity is low and it's far from the ocean, chances are this could be acomplished. There's always lost items such as rings, etc. in open areas.

7 - The demonstrations in USA will probably take place in the mountain areas or regions far from the ocean for best results. Salinization in beaches and areas close to shore are not the best conditions for detection to happen although if it's a large mass of gold, detection will happen anyway and in whatever conditions.

Excellent... I live 200 miles from the coast, and 100 miles from the Blue Ridge Mtns of NC. I'll gladly meet him, and bring my 10-ounce gold bar. No need to look for lost rings.

8 - Ed Merril has been already contacted by Mineoro in the past and he's receiving a new detector.

Ed had to contact Mineoro, and they wanted him to fork over $3700 for the exchange, even though they admitted his unit was defective. Only with your intervention did they finally agree to a free exchange. I agree with Dell, their initial response showed poor ethics.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by hung

11 - Confirmed. The gentleman who went to Mineoro to buy a detector is indeed a F15 pilot. Now if he is on duty in Jordan or any other country in that area is unkwnon.

The Royal Jordanian Air Force has never had F-15s, the only one in the series they have used is the F-16 which is presently in service.