Real clone Alonso-PD

[ANDREAS]

Hi all and Happy new year
Many members knows few years ago i build a clone Alonso-PD
This old "amateur clone" i use many-many mods for find the best balance between all stage.
But is not enough for me. Last months i start again experiments. My "target is... I try work with the same method use by Alonso for calibration omega-coils and feritte all together with standard schematic publish here from qiaozhi without any extras.
I find this method and i build a "real alonso-PD clone" with all parts.
My prototype now can detect a very-very small magnet-piece 2 meters distance very easy and a micro transmitter 433MHZ more than 50 meters distance.
My clone has not false signals from South-north magnetics lines and with calibration knob i can calibrate machine very easy in search-area
In my test-area work perfect, but i need make tests with unknown area and ofcourse video's with unknown targets
This knob for calibration and very small mods (low-bat section, power supply section) are the only extra's
The truth is that the calibration is too difficult and now i understand why there were failures to construct a truly clone
Here some pics my prototype
Heltkit section and feritte section work together without extra selection switch. Output signal from feritte coils is very-very low and feritte section now, work without overload signal.
Next days if i have free time i publish here more infos and i start video's with prototype
I want to thank a forum member here ( very good electronic engeneer ) , because, with his help and testing , I managed to find all the problems encountered
best regards

[folharin]

andreas excellent job. you are using ferrite and omega coil together? can see the regulator calibration for the ferrite, it changes the position of the ferrite coil?

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Hi all and Happy new year
Many members knows few years ago i build a clone Alonso-PD
This old "amateur clone" i use many-many mods for find the best balance between all stage.
But is not enough for me. Last months i start again experiments. My "target is... I try work with the same method use by Alonso for calibration omega-coils and feritte all together with standard schematic publish here from qiaozhi without any extras.
I find this method and i build a "real alonso-PD clone" with all parts.
My prototype now can detect a very-very small magnet-piece 2 meters distance very easy and a micro transmitter 433MHZ more than 50 meters distance.
My clone has not false signals from South-north magnetics lines and with calibration knob i can calibrate machine very easy in search-area
In my test-area work perfect, but i need make tests with unknown area and ofcourse video's with unknown targets
This knob for calibration and very small mods (low-bat section, power supply section) are the only extra's
The truth is that the calibration is too difficult and now i understand why there were failures to construct a truly clone
Here some pics my prototype
Heltkit section and feritte section work together without extra selection switch. Output signal from feritte coils is very-very low and feritte section now, work without overload signal.
Next days if i have free time i publish here more infos and i start video's with prototype
I want to thank a forum member here ( very good electronic engeneer ) , because, with his help and testing , I managed to find all the problems encountered
best regards

still you fiddle with this??

[aft_72005]

Hi Andreas
And happy new year
Congratulation. Seeing nice work , I hope more success for you .
Best regards

[Nicolas]

Alonso Scheme for PD is the best here. Thank you to all who have actually worked on and do some modification and updating. such as Qiaozhi Eteban and Morgan and other.

Good luck my friend Andreas. and I hope for you a good result in all the world.
the transmitteur and receiver 433MHZ and the right choice my friend. well you advance in this field. 433 MHz is used in the detection by the magnetometer.

Look this picture details and link

www.parallaxinc.com





If you need help for higtech you know my email.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Hi all and Happy new year
Many members knows few years ago i build a clone Alonso-PD
This old "amateur clone" i use many-many mods for find the best balance between all stage.
But is not enough for me. Last months i start again experiments. My "target is... I try work with the same method use by Alonso for calibration omega-coils and feritte all together with standard schematic publish here from qiaozhi without any extras.
I find this method and i build a "real alonso-PD clone" with all parts.
My prototype now can detect a very-very small magnet-piece 2 meters distance very easy and a micro transmitter 433MHZ more than 50 meters distance.
My clone has not false signals from South-north magnetics lines and with calibration knob i can calibrate machine very easy in search-area
In my test-area work perfect, but i need make tests with unknown area and ofcourse video's with unknown targets
This knob for calibration and very small mods (low-bat section, power supply section) are the only extra's
The truth is that the calibration is too difficult and now i understand why there were failures to construct a truly clone
Here some pics my prototype
Heltkit section and feritte section work together without extra selection switch. Output signal from feritte coils is very-very low and feritte section now, work without overload signal.
Next days if i have free time i publish here more infos and i start video's with prototype
I want to thank a forum member here ( very good electronic engeneer ) , because, with his help and testing , I managed to find all the problems encountered
best regards

Your coil looks higher up than the original Alonso PD, and the ferrite appears to be placed in the null line (as described in Chapter 14 of ITMD). Is this correct?

[Geo]

With ferrite "out" of coil is more easy to null the signal of passive receiver. But original Alonso;s PD is different.

[Pahom]

Originally Posted by Geo

With ferrite "out" of coil is more easy to null the signal of passive receiver. But original Alonso;s PD is different.

What is the difference?

[Geo]

Inside the circle of coil is vedry very difficult to null the signal. If u have n't a very good null then u have saturation on receiver.... This is the big problem.

[Pahom]

Originally Posted by Geo

Inside the circle of coil is vedry very difficult to null the signal. If u have n't a very good null then u have saturation on receiver.... This is the big problem.

Are you talking about zeroing the Tx signal relative to the Rx coils of the metal detector?

[ANDREAS]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Your coil looks higher up than the original Alonso PD, and the ferrite appears to be placed in the null line (as described in Chapter 14 of ITMD). Is this correct?

I use scale via photo ( for example attachment pic). In this case i have false dimensions +/-2-3 mm. After study some photo's inside PD-Alonso, before start build omega-coils etc, i am sure for results and real dimensions using my PD.
...and the ferrite appears to be placed in the null line (as described in Chapter 14 of ITMD)
I have not your book, but feritte is not placed in the null line.
Please remember my old message, we have ONLY a "magic place". In this place, output feritte-coils has only 0,1-3mv output signal. For this results, i use a micrometric moving system and ofcourse need fine null omega together (move -null omega and again). This point is very difficult. We need repeating tests, before protection this place
Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Please remember my old message, we have ONLY a "magic place". In this place, output feritte-coils has only 0,1-3mv output signal. For this results, i use a micrometric moving system and ofcourse need fine null omega together (move -null omega and again). This point is very difficult. We need repeating tests, before protection this place

Does your ferrite coil have two cores with a gap (as per the original Alonso PD) or is it just one complete core?

[ANDREAS]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Does your ferrite coil have two cores with a gap (as per the original Alonso PD) or is it just one complete core?

It's same about results, the gap is easier for calibration, but
the gap produce sometimes false signals. My opinion.
Never we have see a real photo, about feritte (gap or not). I think "the gap" is false infos for stoped some members build it or present a myth
I think "original feritte" work with complete core. I use complete core, because has stability out signal
Second i believe never members open the original coil in feritte. A x-ray photo yes, but destroy the place and open never
I have this sense, because.. if you have a unit and work , you don't touch somethink and stop work.
The interest for all is this "magic point" is +/- 0.1mm. Tell me Quiaozhi, can you find this point with your hands? Personally i cannot. In this case my clone with micrometric regulator i think is better original
Conclusion. Members that say they know or have opened or know exactly how is the original, i think say "guess - tales" and they publish bla-bla and dreams.
If they knows really , few years ago, they start build and sell units. This is only real true.
regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

The interest for all is this "magic point" is +/- 0.1mm. Tell me Quiaozhi, can you find this point with your hands? Personally i cannot.

I was also unable to find the "magic point" by hand. The TOTeM unit uses a single ferrite core that is placed in the upper null line of the TX coil. This is easy to find by hand, and can be nulled to only a few mV.

If the original Alonso PD has a split core, then I suspect the ferrite nearest the TX coil is acting similar to the nulling coil in a concentric arrangement. Since it is not driven by the TX oscillator, and relies only on voltage induced into the coil, this would explain why it is very difficult to find the balance point.

[nelson]

Congratulations Andreas for this new project
I hope you can find how this realy works.
Best regards
Nelson

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Hi all and Happy new year
Many members knows few years ago i build a clone Alonso-PD
This old "amateur clone" i use many-many mods for find the best balance between all stage.
But is not enough for me. Last months i start again experiments. My "target is... I try work with the same method use by Alonso for calibration omega-coils and feritte all together with standard schematic publish here from qiaozhi without any extras.
I find this method and i build a "real alonso-PD clone" with all parts.
My prototype now can detect a very-very small magnet-piece 2 meters distance very easy and a micro transmitter 433MHZ more than 50 meters distance.
My clone has not false signals from South-north magnetics lines and with calibration knob i can calibrate machine very easy in search-area
In my test-area work perfect, but i need make tests with unknown area and ofcourse video's with unknown targets
This knob for calibration and very small mods (low-bat section, power supply section) are the only extra's
The truth is that the calibration is too difficult and now i understand why there were failures to construct a truly clone
Here some pics my prototype
Heltkit section and feritte section work together without extra selection switch. Output signal from feritte coils is very-very low and feritte section now, work without overload signal.
Next days if i have free time i publish here more infos and i start video's with prototype
I want to thank a forum member here ( very good electronic engeneer ) , because, with his help and testing , I managed to find all the problems encountered
best regards

[ANDREAS]

Full schematic without transmitter (later i publish transmitter sch+pcb)
As you can see ,this is original schematic publish by Qiaozhi with very small modifications
regards

[Funfinder]

All this tinkering, discovering, helping together here concerning electronical issues is ok.

As long as the info doesn't leads us "real results wanting" persons away from the serious track. I self built and tested one of those Zahori circuits which mainly are based on electrostatic so afterwards I knew with this stuff you can find electricity lines or rubbed air-ballons from a good distance but no treasures.

I like tinkering but it was still a waste of time and ressources - just because some people here suggested this "could work".


And the same it might be with the ToTeM or the Alonso Clone....

btw. I am not a "skeptic" which condemns everything completly. First some persons here thought I would be a LRL-believer and now some may think I am a skeptic. I am also nothing in the middle, I am a realist who controls everything exactly, compares how much truth a story really could contain and I work with very fair warrants.

This world or better the own personal life will always be full of decisions and judgments of what it is good for me or others and whats not. It is not just to make their lifes hard if doctors, judges or even politicians have to study first. Complex and sophisticated things need alot background- or special-knowledge otherwise people will fail with good work or correct results.


Shure, I could start to experiment with those circuits, too, but why I should find out completly the same as we know already?
And what we know is not really convincing if it comes to real treasure-hunting.

If we see the whole thing as a development-process then it's useless to test the same stuff over and over again. But the motivation to contribute to this kind of "not really promising stuff" would return if there should popup really promising results.


Do you know what is CW? It is "continuous wave". Do you know SSB? Its Single Side Band.
Why do I ask? Because with special ham amateur radio transceivers you can hear ultrashort bandwidths of just a few Hertz thousands miles away.

It is no big deal to create ultra-sensitive detectors - its pretty simple today.
But those must work for the intended purpose.


This micro-adjustment stuff shows already clearly that we have a very ultra-sensitive receiver of some sort. And of course ultra-sensitive detectors react on minimal EM-field chances, be it a magnet or a 1.5v spark 5 meters away.

Just the question is:
For what it is really ultra-sensitive and under what stability conditions?

This here is a forum about metal detection an not radio-station-LRL-detection.
It is not about the Hubble telescope which is ultra-sensitive for super far away stars.

So the question is: How useful is this kind of supersensitive-detector for metal?
For metal buried under ground, otherwise we may find it with some field-glasses, too.

Or in other words:
Its wasted time to experiment with ultra sensitive radio-receivers if those are not good for metal-detection.

I'm pretty shure the ToTeM or Alonso is some kind of BFO which only reacts on metal or magnets because the coil-activity or inductivity is extremly very slightly changing (on a level of just a part of 1 Hz, it could be even just the shape of the wave-form which gets slightly disturbed or interrupted for some time), even passivly if a huge metal object already interacts with some long-wave frequency. Thats also the reason why those both coils have to be so extremly well adjusted.
To make it more clearly:

Those kinds of detectors may listen at the 50.000 Hz area but they could see the difference of 50.000,012 and 50.000,025 Hz at a certain frequency (the 50KHz was just an example).

btw. first it would be really important if you know on what kind of detection-principle this stuff is based before you experiment with it. I guess I gave you now the answer, so you know with what kind of supersensitive detection circuit you are dealing and now you can find a way to modify it until it's really useful for treasure-detection.


Perhaps it would be better to start with ultra-sensitive BFOs directly - making "tabula rasa" (clear table) and not messing with such "pre-ready-made" circuits which contain alots of disturbing and unneeded content.

And if you need a handholdable metal-detector better buy a Garrett Ace 250 including snipercoil an mount both on a just 30cm long pole.

As long as those "longer range detection" doesn't work reliable and on a clear level concerning on what kind of influence it really reacts, this 2in1 circuit is just hindering important improvements.

You also should input the schematics into some circuit simulating software so you may see under which kind of EM-influence the coils etc. will react on what level or intensity.


Or do we wanna have this whole riddle-guessing going on and on for years and years?


For the moment all those ToTeM-, Alonso- or PDK detectors seems to me like bad AM-Radios which will receive all kind of household-disturbances, too, because they are not shielded and designed the right way for only receiving what they should receive or detect!

But perhaps you're already on the right track and by clearing things up and improving stuff on the right area we finally get some reliable "more distance metal detection".

And without the possibility of receiving intense and highly directional buried metal signals - without radio-activity almost impossible, especially if those targets are very small - some kind of highly sensitive or for a certain area specialized detector would be an absolutly must!

[Dell Winders]

Funfinder, I agree with your assessment. As a Professional Treasure Hunter/Salvor When I first started testing and encouraging development of Frequency Discrimination methods in 1980 there was adequate hobbyist metal detectors on the market that would detect coins & jewelry at shallow depths. Not much was available for the Professional Treasure Hunter,or Salvor, so we would make modifications, or try to come up with innovative solutions of our own. This is when the Frequency Discrimination from a distance to detect deep buried Treasure Trove was born and implemented.

My interests is in detecting large Treasure Troves buried deep underground or under water where conventional Metal detectors lack the depth penetration to reach the targets I am seeking. Although technologically primitive by today's standards, the first MFD's I used throughout the 1980's were fully electronic, both transmit & receive. I was fortunate to have enough inventors interested to provide me models to Field, and comparison test. My intent and purpose for Frequency Discrimination was never for detecting small ,shallow depth targets, it never has been, and is not now. So I have no pony in this race for LRL shallow depth detection except to point out the Skeptic Con game the owners of this forum are playing on it's contributors and viewers.

I applaud those who are making an effort to discover, and share with others a viable method to make a workable, shallow depth, discriminating LRL, that has universal appeal to hobby metal detectorist. It's a huge market, but will not be won without a fight from those with a vested interest in the lucrative Metal Detector industry

It is understandable that those EE's & Techs embedded in the system that earn a substantial income from the hobbyist Metal detector industry would be concerned about the increased interest and growth of a concept they don't understand in a competing industry.

With all best wishes, Dell

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

It is understandable that those EE's & Techs embedded in the system that earn a substantial income from the hobbyist Metal detector industry would be concerned about the increased interest and growth of a concept they don't understand in a competing industry.

Or vice versa.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

This is when the Frequency Discrimination from a distance to detect deep buried Treasure Trove was born and implemented.

Build your own MFD using these instructions -> http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...mfd1/index.dat
Guaranteed to equal or exceed the performance of any other MFD available.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

It is understandable that those EE's & Techs embedded in the system that earn a substantial income from the hobbyist Metal detector industry would be concerned about the increased interest and growth of a concept they don't understand in a competing industry.

The fact is, we understand the LRL concept as well as the manufacturers who know what they're doing. The self-deceived LRL sellers ... well, we're way ahead.
In fact, we're so scared that LRLs will take over the market and make conventional metal detectors obsolete, that we operate a website dedicated to LRLs, and even freely publish designs such as the one above.

[eurkas]

hi ,,, can any one send me the printed board for the Real PD-Alonso Clone with actual size to print it

thankx in advance

eurkas.as@gmail.com

[AurumKid]

Originally Posted by eurkas

hi ,,, can any one send me the printed board for the Real PD-Alonso Clone with actual size to print it

thankx in advance

eurkas.as@gmail.com

just read the whole forum thread and you will find the schema and printed board layout. and also for better understanding of calibrating the ferrite and omega coil.

[eurkas]

Hi Aurumkid ,,, I do but need the PCB with actual size and the black and white board for print >>>

[eurkas]

Is this printed board Real Pd-Alonso Clone correct

[Geo]

This is a pcb for PD but not the original. Alonso's PD had inside 6 small pcbs