Treasure gas is dangerous !!!

[humhum]

Why treasure gas is dangerous and how will protect ??? .

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by humhum

Why treasure gas is dangerous and how will protect ??? .

Hi Humhum,
Why Treasure gas is dangerous?
There are poisonous gasses in the ground especially where you find long-time buried metals. In the case of gold, we an expect to find cyanide and hydrogen sulfide among other toxic gases. The reason is because the gold is corroding due to the action of microbes that excrete cyanide and low molecular weight organic acids that contain sulfur. The result is to dissolve some of the gold from the surface of the metal, and suspend it in the sulfur complexes as it slowly migrates to the surface of the ground. There is a column of these gold ions and cyanide and sulfur complex in the soil that extends from the surface to the depth of the buried gold. Do some of the cyanides and sulfur complex combine with local hydrogen ions to become HCN or H2S? You bet they do! These gasses are abundant in the ground where long time metal is corroding. Have you ever smelled hydrogen cyanide, or hydrogen sulfide gas? Smelling them can kill you. An effective method to protect yourself from death is to wear a gas mask.

Deep tunnels in gold mines have elaborate ventilation systems and emergency gas masks on hand to protect the personnel. In treasure hunting, these gasses are not usually a problem for recovering treasures that are less than a meter deep. At shallow depths the small amount of toxic gasses will usually dissipate in the wind. But for deep treasures, it is wise to take a gas mask. Here is what Michael said about toxic gas precautions relating to his treasure hunting experience: "Here the only reason I reflected my experience and information was to help a guy and give him/her alarm of danger, a very very serious danger like another thing I tell now; any massive treasure searcher need to tools like especial gas-masks plus appropriate filters which be able to absorb some organic and inorganic gases particularly cyanides , H2S. and there are many more points with details if be necessary"
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=90

Take care with your treasure hunts.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Humhum,
Why Treasure gas is dangerous?
There are poisonous gasses in the ground especially where you find long-time buried metals. In the case of gold, we an expect to find cyanide and hydrogen sulfide among other toxic gases. The reason is because the gold is corroding due to the action of microbes that excrete cyanide and low molecular weight organic acids that contain sulfur. The result is to dissolve some of the gold from the surface of the metal, and suspend it in the sulfur complexes as it slowly migrates to the surface of the ground. There is a column of these gold ions and cyanide and sulfur complex in the soil that extends from the surface to the depth of the buried gold. Do some of the cyanides and sulfur complex combine with local hydrogen ions to become HCN or H2S? You bet they do! These gasses are abundant in the ground where long time metal is corroding. Have you ever smelled hydrogen cyanide, or hydrogen sulfide gas? Smelling them can kill you. An effective method to protect yourself from death is to wear a gas mask.

Deep tunnels in gold mines have elaborate ventilation systems and emergency gas masks on hand to protect the personnel. In treasure hunting, these gasses are not usually a problem for recovering treasures that are less than a meter deep. At shallow depths the small amount of toxic gasses will usually dissipate in the wind. But for deep treasures, it is wise to take a gas mask. Here is what Michael said about toxic gas precautions relating to his treasure hunting experience: "Here the only reason I reflected my experience and information was to help a guy and give him/her alarm of danger, a very very serious danger like another thing I tell now; any massive treasure searcher need to tools like especial gas-masks plus appropriate filters which be able to absorb some organic and inorganic gases particularly cyanides , H2S. and there are many more points with details if be necessary"
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=90

Take care with your treasure hunts.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
hmmmm... what's that story now ???
Treasure gas ??? And it's dangerous ???

It's an old story... good for boyscouts I think...

I think the origin of it is about some egytian discoveries... and one in particular: Tutankhamun's tomb discovery and was a big treasure there...

When Howard Carter's team found it... they broke the seals around the stone block used as "door" to the tomb in a false wall stuff... then they let the air from inside evacuate in free air in the entrance pit... that was for a night or so... then they look inside and finally enter the tomb to recover stuff.

Now... they let "old" air from inside mix with fresh air cause was a common practice people from there (treasure hunters) developed to avoid side effects... like sudden deaths occasionally occurring to treasure hunters of old egypt.
Was , indeed, a good practice... and also used today when very old sealed tomb is found... cause gases from inside (both natural/ground-generated and decomposition related) could be truly toxic stuff and require ventilation to disperse them to safe levels.

What they didn't realize... is that some gases are heavy and heavier than others and tend to build-up in closed environments , expecially underground : radon , a radioactive noble gas due to uranium decay and naturally occurring in many places in the world is a potential killer... cause can be inhaled and people can get a massive dose of radiation to sensitive lungs tissue... with potentially lethal effects at higher doses.
Other gases can be related to decomposition of organic tissue like not only people but also e.g. ducks (yes! ducks!) cause the king have a huge number of them buried in his tomb (maybe thousands of them) and other organic stuff. It's e.g. carbonium monoxide (they used candles also to detect it... if candles don't burn... you know why... too much of it in the air, and also small birds as poisonous "gas-detectors" ...like in WWI or old mines... if they suddenly die... you know must escape from there VERY fast).
Then ,also, last but not least fungus stuff... microscopic fungi spores... some are highly pathogenic to e.g. lungs and can easy kill a person if spores are inhaled. Some can resist some thousands years buried in the hot of Egypt and come back to life when conditions are good enough... like new humidity or an host available tissue e.g. skin or again... lungs to let them grow as fungi.

So... it was probably in their case a mix of all them... and someone suffered and died for that stuff very easy in such climatic/hygenic conditions.

But... c'mon guys... how often you see mummies in your THing trips ??? :lo

It's a risk in some places... e.g. some south american countries... cause there are many... but very often the mummies are in open spaces... with fresh air around...

In some cases they are buried in pits (e.g. Peru sites...) but it's rare you'll really see one.

Apart that very rare cases treasure have no gas... apart farts from some LRL-pretenders infesting all south america!

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

Cyanide gas from buried gold?

Hmmmm… I’ve heard a lot of (first hand) stories from some old gold miners that worked in the early Homestake Mine, and I don’t recall any of them mentioning deaths due to cyanide gas.

My grandfather spent a major part of his “short” life underground mining coal. They used canaries to detect “bad air”. Seems the canaries would act funny or just fall over in their cages if there was a hint of “bad air”, long before it was dangerous to humans – giving the miners ample warning to get out. Grandfather was killed in a coal mine, not from bad air, but from a huge piece of slate falling on him. Crushed most of his body, but left him talking and conscious for a few hours.

General Y a m a s h i t a secreted a lot of gold and jewels in the Philippine Islands during WWII. Many of those deposits were protected with various types of booby traps, some of which were cyanide bombs and grenades. I guess in that case, treasure hunting for Y a m a s h i t a gold could get you killed – by cyanide.

I once visited a chemical plant in Texas that was making cyanide. Lots of precautions in that plant, and yes workers had been killed in that plant from careless exposure. Why would you need large quantities of cyanide? Well, cyanide is used among other things for cracking petroleum products especially in the manufacture of styrene plastics.

In another chemical plant, I was investigating control room instrumentation that was being eaten up (and failing) due to hydrogen sulphide in the control room air. There was no mention of any operators suffering ill effects from the H2S, but apparently it was concentrated enough to eat some of the unprotected portions of a few copper printed circuit boards. If just smelling H2S can kill you, then most of the paper mills in this country would have been put out of business decades ago.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Cyanide gas from buried gold?

Hmmmm… I’ve heard a lot of (first hand) stories from some old gold miners that worked in the early Homestake Mine, and I don’t recall any of them mentioning deaths due to cyanide gas.

My grandfather spent a major part of his “short” life underground mining coal. They used canaries to detect “bad air”. Seems the canaries would act funny or just fall over in their cages if there was a hint of “bad air”, long before it was dangerous to humans – giving the miners ample warning to get out. Grandfather was killed in a coal mine, not from bad air, but from a huge piece of slate falling on him. Crushed most of his body, but left him talking and conscious for a few hours.

General Y a m a s h i t a secreted a lot of gold and jewels in the Philippine Islands during WWII. Many of those deposits were protected with various types of booby traps, some of which were cyanide bombs and grenades. I guess in that case, treasure hunting for Y a m a s h i t a gold could get you killed – by cyanide.

I once visited a chemical plant in Texas that was making cyanide. Lots of precautions in that plant, and yes workers had been killed in that plant from careless exposure. Why would you need large quantities of cyanide? Well, cyanide is used among other things for cracking petroleum products especially in the manufacture of styrene plastics.

In another chemical plant, I was investigating control room instrumentation that was being eaten up (and failing) due to hydrogen sulphide in the control room air. There was no mention of any operators suffering ill effects from the H2S, but apparently it was concentrated enough to eat some of the unprotected portions of a few copper printed circuit boards. If just smelling H2S can kill you, then most of the paper mills in this country would have been put out of business decades ago.

Hi Theseus,
It is correct that coal miners used canaries to warn them of bad air in advance. However, you are talking about a coal mine where there is an abundance of organic material to be mined ie: carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. The kinds of poison gasses found in most coal mines are methane, CO, and CO2. While they are not completely toxic,. yhey do displace oxygen which is needed to support life. And CO can cause hypoxia by extracting the available oxygen from your blood, leaving you unconscious to die in the oxygen depleted air. Methane also presents a major fire an explosion hazard.

A gold mine is different in that it has corroding metal in it. This metal is corroding by the action of microbes which excrete cyanide that dissolves the gold. But this is true for other metals as well, such as silver, zinc, copper, etc. We also find these microbes producing NaCN or KCN to dissolve these metals. Once in solution with ground water, these salts easily liberate HCN gas, which is very toxic. See below:

Properties and Characteristics of Sodium Cyanide (NaCN)
Physical State; Appearance
- White, hygroscopic crystalline powder, with characteristic odour. Odourless when dry.
- Cyanide solutions readily bond with gold, silver and other metals
- Usually stored and transported as a solid. It is stable when dry.
- Dissolve in water to produce toxic cyanide gas. HCN (Hydrogen Cyanide)
- Cyanide may also result in deforestation, soil erosion, land slides, and contamination of underground water.One teaspoon of a 2% solution can kill a person.
- The substance decomposes rapidly on contact with acids, and slowly on contact with water, moisture or carbon dioxide producing hydrogen cyanide
- Cyanide is a powerful solvent that breaks down heavy metals – such as mercury, cadmium, chromium, and lead – that end up as waste products that need to be dumped.
Chemical Dangers
- One teaspoon of a 2% solution can kill a person.
- Cyanide is highly toxic, rapidly acting, potentially deadly chemical
- The substance can be absorbed into the body by inhalation, through the skin and by ingestion.
- Prevents the cells of the body from using oxygen. When this happens, the cells die.
- Causea effect on the cellular respiration, resulting in convulsions and unconsciousness

- More harmful to the heart and brain than to other organs because the heart and brain use a lot of oxygen.
- 20ppm/ per cubic meter in air (mg/m3)
- Cyanide is the killing agent used in gas chambers.
- When the density of HCN is 20 ppm, after few hours human will experience symptoms of poison dead
- Total Cyanide composition on surface water must not be more then 0.2mg/L, when the Cyanide composition is more than 0.5mg/L, 20% of the fish will be dead in two hours, all fish will be dead in 24 hours.
- Notorious chemical weapons used in Second World War, has been widely used by Nazi in the detention facilities and channel the gas to chamber which is a counterfeit bath room. The weapon has kill millions of Jews.
- Has been considered potential terrorist weapon.
- Potassium Cyanide has been used in mercy killing. Subject will be dead in 10 seconds after the drug has been injected or taken via oral.

H2S can kill you from smelling it if you smell it enough. The strong smell of rotten eggs is enough warning to cause most people to leave the area.

I would expect to find some H2S gas at coal mines due to the sulfur content of coal. But I do not expect to find HCN gas in coal mines in substantial amounts because the bacteria and other microbes that produce it tend to live where there is buried metal, not buried coal or other organic stuff. These microbes depend on metal to support their life, so their colonies tend to grow where the metal is.

There are also other hazards in recovering deep buried treasure, such as cave-ins, explosions, and other thngs. Michael has more experience in this area.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

H2S can kill you from smelling it if you smell it enough. The strong smell of rotten eggs is enough warning to cause most people to leave the area.

Best wishes,
J_P

I can only assume you've never been around one of the many paper mills in the US. There is a constant smell of H2S around kraft paper mills, yet there is no pile of dead bodies around the plants... from the smell.

Smelling it and ingesting lethal amounts of it are two different things.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set an acceptable ceiling limit for hydrogen sulfide of 20 parts hydrogen sulfide per 1 million parts of air (20 ppm) in the workplace.

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) recommends a 10-minute ceiling limit of 10 ppm in the workplace.

Internet source; Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) occurs naturally in crude petroleum, natural gas, volcanic gases, and hot springs. It can also result from bacterial breakdown of organic matter. It is also produced by human and animal wastes. Bacteria found in your mouth and gastrointestinal tract produce hydrogen sulfide from bacteria decomposing materials that contain vegetable or animal proteins. Hydrogen sulfide can also result from industrial activities, such as food processing, coke ovens, kraft paper mills, tanneries, and petroleum refineries.

Hydrogen sulfide is a flammable, colorless gas with a characteristic odor of rotten eggs. It is commonly known as hydrosulfuric acid, sewer gas, and stink damp. People can smell it at low levels.

[humhum]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Humhum,
Why Treasure gas is dangerous?
There are poisonous gasses in the ground especially where you find long-time buried metals. In the case of gold, we an expect to find cyanide and hydrogen sulfide among other toxic gases. The reason is because the gold is corroding due to the action of microbes that excrete cyanide and low molecular weight organic acids that contain sulfur. The result is to dissolve some of the gold from the surface of the metal, and suspend it in the sulfur complexes as it slowly migrates to the surface of the ground. There is a column of these gold ions and cyanide and sulfur complex in the soil that extends from the surface to the depth of the buried gold. Do some of the cyanides and sulfur complex combine with local hydrogen ions to become HCN or H2S? You bet they do! These gasses are abundant in the ground where long time metal is corroding. Have you ever smelled hydrogen cyanide, or hydrogen sulfide gas? Smelling them can kill you. An effective method to protect yourself from death is to wear a gas mask.

Deep tunnels in gold mines have elaborate ventilation systems and emergency gas masks on hand to protect the personnel. In treasure hunting, these gasses are not usually a problem for recovering treasures that are less than a meter deep. At shallow depths the small amount of toxic gasses will usually dissipate in the wind. But for deep treasures, it is wise to take a gas mask. Here is what Michael said about toxic gas precautions relating to his treasure hunting experience: "Here the only reason I reflected my experience and information was to help a guy and give him/her alarm of danger, a very very serious danger like another thing I tell now; any massive treasure searcher need to tools like especial gas-masks plus appropriate filters which be able to absorb some organic and inorganic gases particularly cyanides , H2S. and there are many more points with details if be necessary"
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=90

Take care with your treasure hunts.

Best wishes,
J_P

J_Player . Thanks for info .