The so-called PHENOMENON

[Qiaozhi]

What do we know about the so-called PHENOMENON?

Following Hung's attempt at debunkering (presumably he actually means "debunking", but that's another issue) by posting a highly suspect video, the description of this PHENOMENON is now even more confused.

Here's what I mean:

Do you remember Hung's post, where he stated: "Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=41

This substance would make LRL detecting impossible, because the gold is protected against the annoying cyanide-producing bacteria that dissolves other buried metals.
If (according to Hung) the gold DNA protects the gold against corrosion, then gold ions will not dissolve in the ground or float in a convenient cloud 7.2 feet above the buried gold. So the obvious conclusion is that ionic detectors cannot work. But according to LRL theory, if there are no gold ions dissolving in the soil, then the soil will have no anomaly nor will there be an electrostatic, ground voltage, or magnetic anomaly. The only way left to find the gold is to detect it with a metal detector.

In the video it is demonstrated (rather clumsily) that the PD can detect a gold ring at some unbelievable distance. Analysis of this video has shown it to be an unreliable source of information. Not only is the detection taking place indoors, but it is goes against all that has been stated previously by LRL proponents, and most strongly by Hung. How many times have we heard statements to the effect that Carl must take his FG80 to the middle of nowhere to perform a proper test, and not to test it indoors or with the electronic dog fence activated? But here we see a similar device operating quite reliably inside the house, even though it's not buried, and presumably not emitting ions (or more recently electrons).

Personally, if I was going to fabricate a pseudoscientific theory to describe detection of gold at unbelievable distances, I would at least make an attempt to be consistent. Now recently we are starting to hear stories of detection at 10km.

What does anyone else think?
Truth or sheer bunkem?

[ivconic]

I don't "think" and i don't "beleive" - I KNOW it is charlatanism and pseudo science. I have seen hundreds of lrl devices and apparatuses in last 20 years. NONE of those ever worked in front of my eyes. NONE! NEITHER ONE! And we did numerous double blind tests, measurements, experiments.... it would need 1000 pages me to tell and explain what we done so far to establish right attitude upon this subject. This is not working (no matter which one and what method used)! Period.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by ivconic

I don't "think" and i don't "beleive" - I KNOW it is charlatanism and pseudo science. I have seen hundreds of lrl devices and apparatuses in last 20 years. NONE of those ever worked in front of my eyes. NONE! NEITHER ONE! And we did numerous double blind tests, measurements, experiments.... it would need 1000 pages me to tell and explain what we done so far to establish right attitude upon this subject. This is not working (no matter which one and what method used)! Period.

Also I test 100 and failed, but also made other devices and detects at certain distance. But, of course, in big number failed, the few detects.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by ivconic

I don't "think" and i don't "beleive" - I KNOW it is charlatanism and pseudo science. I have seen hundreds of lrl devices and apparatuses in last 20 years. NONE of those ever worked in front of my eyes. NONE! NEITHER ONE! And we did numerous double blind tests, measurements, experiments.... it would need 1000 pages me to tell and explain what we done so far to establish right attitude upon this subject. This is not working (no matter which one and what method used)! Period.

Hundreds of LRL devices in the last 20 years that are non working is pretty strong proof. But it would take only one demonstration working in front of your eyes to redeem the name of LRLs and prove the last 20 years were not good LRLs. But there is no person on earth who is willing to show an LRL recovering treasures in front of your eyes today.

Of course, hung has given the reason why LRLs cannot find gold: "Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=41

Since the substance produced by gold's DNA coats the metal and protects it against rust, oxidation, etc, trace amounts of gold ions cannot dissolve into the soil like other metals do when buried long times. Of course, this makes it impossible to form gold ions or establish an anomaly in the soil like other metals do. This suggests that perhaps hung was not making true statements when he described his LRLs detecting gold at long distances. If long time buried gold cannot shed ions to form an anomaly in the soil, then the only way hung could have detected gold is with his metal detector.

Hmmm... I wonder what this substance produced by gold's DNA is called... gold wax?

Best wishes,
J_P


"Maybe this is the debunkering"

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hundreds of LRL devices in the last 20 years that are non working is pretty strong proof. But it would take only one demonstration working in front of your eyes to redeem the name of LRLs and prove the last 20 years were not good LRLs. But there is no person on earth who is willing to show an LRL recovering treasures in front of your eyes today.......

J_P

Yes, that is true. I agree 100%. And i am ready to spitt on my last 20 years, just like that. Only need to see workable LRL which is able to accuratelly detect 1 gold coin at 1m depth in soil.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Yes, that is true. I agree 100%. And i am ready to spitt on my last 20 years, just like that. Only need to see workable LRL which is able to accuratelly detect 1 gold coin at 1m depth in soil.

Finding a 1Kg hoard of coins buried at 24" would be a start.

http://www.garysdetecting.co.uk/hoard_test.htm

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

What do we know about the so-called PHENOMENON?

Following Hung's attempt at debunkering (presumably he actually means "debunking", but that's another issue) by posting a highly suspect video, the description of this PHENOMENON is now even more confused.

Here's what I mean:

Do you remember Hung's post, where he stated: "Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=41

This substance would make LRL detecting impossible, because the gold is protected against the annoying cyanide-producing bacteria that dissolves other buried metals.
If (according to Hung) the gold DNA protects the gold against corrosion, then gold ions will not dissolve in the ground or float in a convenient cloud 7.2 feet above the buried gold. So the obvious conclusion is that ionic detectors cannot work. But according to LRL theory, if there are no gold ions dissolving in the soil, then the soil will have no anomaly nor will there be an electrostatic, ground voltage, or magnetic anomaly. The only way left to find the gold is to detect it with a metal detector.

In the video it is demonstrated (rather clumsily) that the PD can detect a gold ring at some unbelievable distance. Analysis of this video has shown it to be an unreliable source of information. Not only is the detection taking place indoors, but it is goes against all that has been stated previously by LRL proponents, and most strongly by Hung. How many times have we heard statements to the effect that Carl must take his FG80 to the middle of nowhere to perform a proper test, and not to test it indoors or with the electronic dog fence activated? But here we see a similar device operating quite reliably inside the house, even though it's not buried, and presumably not emitting ions (or more recently electrons).

Personally, if I was going to fabricate a pseudoscientific theory to describe detection of gold at unbelievable distances, I would at least make an attempt to be consistent. Now recently we are starting to hear stories of detection at 10km.

What does anyone else think?
Truth or sheer bunkem?

That word "but can anyone tell us what the signal is. or how can we look at te signal on a oscope.All we know it is called a PHENOMENON.
So what do you LOOK FOR OR AT.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

What do we know about the so-called PHENOMENON?

Probably the most important attribute of "the phenomenon" is the fact that only a select few individuals can experience it (or report they have experienced it). That fact, in and of itself, says a lot.

Following Hung's attempt at debunkering (presumably he actually means "debunking", but that's another issue) by posting a highly suspect video, the description of this PHENOMENON is now even more confused.

Hung, or his video, neither debunked or debunkered anything, so we are still waiting for that promise/threat to be fulfilled.

[Fred]

I don ´t know why it is so dificult to show a video of the phenomenon being detected...not 10km, not 2km, not 200m, but only ...20m away! Yes ladies and gentlemen, only 20m away would be enough to convince the large audience of the spectacular discovery made by Hung and his team.
Yet...no convincing video i have seen from hung.

I WANT TO BE DEBUNKERED!

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Fred

I don ´t know why it is so dificult to show a video of the phenomenon being detected...not 10km, not 2km, not 200m, but only ...20m away! Yes ladies and gentlemen, only 20m away would be enough to convince the large audience of the spectacular discovery made by Hung and his team.
Yet...no convincing video i have seen from hung.

I WANT TO BE DEBUNKERED!

Fred oh Fred! What 20m !?!?!? No...show me device which will accuratelly detect SINGLE GOLD COIN at 1m depth and i guarantee it will be huge market break through ever! White's,Minelab,Fisher, Garrett and Cscope will bust in no time...just show me that device!
People, friends, fellas....and "enemies"...what we are talking about here???
What "meters"??? We all do know very good what are endest limits of REAL coin detection in SOIL.....30-40cm..and that is all. First metal detector, LRL or any other kind of apparatus which can beat that depth would be world bestseller! BUT...must be provable in front of anybodys eyes, in any country, in any soil....in hands of any operater.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Fred oh Fred! What 20m !?!?!? No...show me device which will accuratelly detect SINGLE GOLD COIN at 1m depth and i guarantee it will be huge market break through ever!

Hi Ivconic
I was being sarcastic about the 20m, but i am still interested in the possiblitity that log time burried metal could induce an anomaly in the natural electric field above earth (to resume)...
Instead of detecting the metal itself, (that as we know can only be detected at short distance),detecting this effect could be done farther away.

[ivconic]

Actually it can. It is producing some sort of "hallo" or simillar...right now i can not explain what it is. But...benefits from that "hallo" effect or whatever, are not great..at least not so great to allow you to detect coin at 10 times or more distance than without it.
I already posted some of my experiences...somewhere on this forum.
Let me repeat one example;
once i detected and dug iron arrow from 30-35cm (if i remember good) in the ground. Soil was wet so there was some mud on arrow. I rubed it with fingers and removed mud. It was dry in a minute and almost clean from mud. Than i checked it in air...to detect. Detector bairly detected it at 20cm distance in air??? So...again i checked hole and arround it, to see if there is some other metal. No...nothing.
This i experienced also many times later on the fields. With various items and various types of metal. Longer the period, metal was in soil - better detection and more stronger hallo effect.
But... usually i do collect old roman coins, 1500-2000 years being in the ground. Enough to produce strong hallo effect? Yes, i think more than enough.So...all the benefits from it, i've seen so far were 3-5cm more in ground for single coin. Larger items also...
Hoard....recently burried could be detected at 40-50cm with so so detector (depends of hoard quantity and area that it poops, but let's take 50 coins hoard as an example). But hoard (same one) which is 1500 years in the ground can successfully be detected at 60-80 cm.....but not 2m...3m..20m...or 100m !!!! Not possiblle!
So...you see; there are some benefits from hallo effect.....but not that great.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi Ivconic
I was being sarcastic about the 20m, but i am still interested in the possiblitity that log time burried metal could induce an anomaly in the natural electric field above earth (to resume)...
Instead of detecting the metal itself, (that as we know can only be detected at short distance),detecting this effect could be done farther away.

Yes,sure PD detects at long distance the anomaly caused by conductive metals.This distances are impossible for normal metal detector.
My experiences with PD everybody from this forum know very well. I realy dont know very well if PD can detect 1k gold 200m,but i´m sure 15m is possible. Also small gold or silver objects can be detected at distances like 1m to 5m or more. Depth can be near the surface or more deep.but i never found one single coin buried more than 50cm,and the hoard of silver coins was 80cm underground...

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Fred oh Fred! What 20m !?!?!? No...show me device which will accuratelly detect SINGLE GOLD COIN at 1m depth and i guarantee it will be huge market break through ever! White's,Minelab,Fisher, Garrett and Cscope will bust in no time...just show me that device!
People, friends, fellas....and "enemies"...what we are talking about here???
What "meters"??? We all do know very good what are endest limits of REAL coin detection in SOIL.....30-40cm..and that is all. First metal detector, LRL or any other kind of apparatus which can beat that depth would be world bestseller! BUT...must be provable in front of anybodys eyes, in any country, in any soil....in hands of any operater.

I know that...
And i propose one agreement :

After skeptics try the PD,and find it useful for TH,if they want to know all the secrets SHOULD PAY TO ALONSO FOR THIS INFORMATIONS(only if he agree). I want one part of the production,other for Esteban and Alonso should be contacted to start the massive production.

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Morgan

I know that...
And i propose one agreement :

After skeptics try the PD,and find it useful for TH,if they want to know all the secrets SHOULD PAY TO ALONSO FOR THIS INFORMATIONS(only if he agree). I want one part of the production,other for Esteban and Alonso should be contacted to start the massive production.

It is not a problem to pay for such revolutionary device. It would not be a problem at all. If i am sure i can find hoards of roman coins and jewelry with such device...heck..it will repay all the costs with one single find.
I am sure there are people on this forum with fat bank accounts. No problem to collect money for something payable. But first we must see and experience such device..right?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Morgan

I know that...
And i propose one agreement :

After skeptics try the PD,and find it useful for TH,if they want to know all the secrets SHOULD PAY TO ALONSO FOR THIS INFORMATIONS(only if he agree). I want one part of the production,other for Esteban and Alonso should be contacted to start the massive production.

Hi Morgan,
Alonso cannot legally be paid for production of his machine, because the circuitry he used is in violation of international copyright laws. He must use a design that originated from himself, and secure copyright and patent protection before he can legally charge money for for a massive production. He could also pay royalties to the owners of the copyrights to use their circuitry if they choose to licence their designs to him.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Duplicated, sorry , TBD

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Probably the most important attribute of "the phenomenon" is the fact that only a select few individuals can experience it (or report they have experienced it). That fact, in and of itself, says a lot.

Hung, or his video, neither debunked or debunkered anything, so we are still waiting for that promise/threat to be fulfilled.

"The select" knows because go outdoor and study it. Maybe is very difficult to reproduce a "phenomenon" caused via chemical reaction in soil, disturbance of the Earth magnetic field nearby metals, environmental conditions, humidity and conductivity of the soils, etc.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

"The select" knows because go outdoor and study it. Maybe is very difficult to reproduce a "phenomenon" caused via chemical reaction in soil, disturbance of the Earth magnetic field nearby metals, environmental conditions, humidity and conductivity of the soils, etc.

Thanks Esteban. You have just confirmed my suspicions, but you did not complete the sentence: "The select" knows because go outdoor and study it,... while some stay indoors and make suspect videos.

The problem I have with the so-called PHENOMENON is that there is no consistency in the theories. That's why I respect your experimental nature, because you claim the PHENOMENON exists, but at the same time you do not put forward outrageous pseudo-scientific claptrap to explain why. Unlike someone else that we know, who is now claiming detection from 10km. Remember - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It would also help if the same person did not contradict himself in subsequent posts.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Thanks Esteban. You have just confirmed my suspicions, but you did not complete the sentence: "The select" knows because go outdoor and study it,... while some stay indoors and make suspect videos.

The problem I have with the so-called PHENOMENON is that there is no consistency in the theories. That's why I respect your experimental nature, because you claim the PHENOMENON exists, but at the same time you do not put forward outrageous pseudo-scientific claptrap to explain why. Unlike someone else that we know, who is now claiming detection from 10km. Remember - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It would also help if the same person did not contradict himself in subsequent posts.

Is possible to detect outdoor at distance, but no with my devices.

All persons wich made such videos and post here is about suspicions, and maybe, from my part, wish no made such videos, even if somebody said "I never see a video wich shows recovering of targets with electronic LRL"...

If some things or "phenomenons" contradict the theory, well, not all is explained, there are more infinite things don't be explained that the things wich has been explained.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

..... there are more infinite things don't be explained that the things wich has been explained.

I cannot dispute that statement.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Esteban

All persons wich made such videos and post here is about suspicions, and maybe, from my part, wish no made such videos,

That´s strange Why do you wish such video should not be made, if it shows CLEARLY how the device works ?
Of course i am talking about a real video, not the one we are thinking about, wich completely ruins the remains of credit (??) of the one who made it, as long as any serious LRL experimenter like you.
After all this is the best way to convince some people to study the "phenomenon", and learn about it...