Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedevil
For the moment, let us dismiss some skeptic notions such as "trick of the mind", and examine forces which may be involved with the movement of the dowsing rods.
To begin, we can assume the dowsing rods are two L shaped rods which are held inside two tubes that allow the rods to swing from side to side when there is some force to cause them to swing.
And we also assume you hold these two tubes in your two hands.
Also, we assume the rods are held so they are slightly tilted down at the front... pointing downward maybe 10-15 degree angle.
We know that L-rods can be made from steel or from non-ferrous metals.
For this discussion, let us assume that brass rods are being used which are about 18" long from the tubes that hold them, and they weigh about 23 grams each.
We also assume you are walking outdoors where you look for something buried.
And we assume you are walking either on the ground, or some structure that is resting on or buried in the ground.
So, what forces are acting on the rod that could cause it to move?
Let's start with direct forces first:
1. Mechanical forces from muscles in the hands and arms of the dowser.When dowsing the movement of your muscles is more towards trying to keep the rods apart this is where the sensitivity of the dowser starts
2. Force of gravity acting on the rod.
Then there are some indirect forces which could act on the rod:
1. Neurological electric signals within the dowser that cause muscles to apply forces to the rods. YES! But this has more to do with the discrimination of dowsing (just like GEO’S 4017 in his circuit,and at the moment I just want to start with the basics, a charged object and a 555 pulse.
2. Variations in the gravitational field strength and direction that could concievably happen over time or distances which the dowser may walk. Yes it rains and water flows.
Then there are some third order indirect forces which could act on the rod:
I am talking about Ideas which may enter the consciousness or the subconscious thoughts of the dowser.
While an idea is not a physical force, an idea can cause physical consequences.
What kind of ideas?
Ideas such as...
"I wonder if it is buried over there"? or
"buried nuggets are always found at this part of a stream bed" or
"the force of the full moon puts me in the mood to look over here" or
"that dude who buried the treasure for me to find is looking nervous now that I have walked over here ... maybe I should start digging"...
The result of this kind of idea could cause a chain reaction which results in the dowser's muscles to cause the rods to move without him being aware that his muscles caused them to move. NO
This is quite an amazing feat, but I have seen evidence that some dowsers can accomplish it.
But what about other theories, such as "mass attracts mass" and the increased attraction caused by the increased mass of a buried object is what makes a dowsing rod move?
The increased mass theory does not work because it has two fatal errors that I can think of:
1. Some of the dowsed materials have the exact same density as the earth they are buried in.
For example, suppose a dowser was looking for a buried ancient pottery worth a fortune, that was made from the same clay that it is buried in.
The pottery weighs the exact same as the soil, so there is no difference in mass of the pottery or mass of the earth that it displaces.
2. If there is a difference in mass for a buried treasure such as golda gold coin (5 times heavier than average soil), then this difference in mass is no where near large enough to impose a significant force on a dowsing rod. YES But an underground stream can impose a huge force on the rod. So I am trying to start with the basics. Then latter on I think as the “electronic divining device” becomes better in operation and theory of understanding I think the sensitivity can be adjusted to find a gold coin. Just like adding the 4017 to the 555 in Geo’s circuit.
As an example, start with the formula for the force of gravity between any two objects:
F = (G x m1 x m2)/r Ha! You have the wrong formula! Yes Big G is used to describe universal gravitation, but I am not talking about planetary motion, more so, INNER planetary motion which uses little g or “g” as it is known as. Back to school for you.
where F is grams of gravitational force acting between the buried coin and the rod,
G is the universal gravitational constant, = 6.6726 x 10-11N-m2/kg2
m1 is the mass of the gold coin, 23 gm
m2 is the mass of the brass rod, 23 gm, and
r is the distance between the gold and the rod, 1.5 meters.
Let's presume we are trying to locate a large gold coin that weighs 23 gms, buried 10 cm deep, and the brass rod also weighs 23 gms.
And suppose we are very close to where the coin is buried, standing less than a meter away from it.
The increased gravitational attraction because of our proximity to the coin calculates to 1.5997332422387 x 10-12 grams force.
This is the best conditon to find the gold coin, when it is nearly under your feet, yet the force is less than 2 trillionths of a gram.
Suppose there is a gravitational anomlay at the location where the gold is buried which causes the gravitational force on the gold coin to be double... then we have a force of 3.2 trillionths of a gram acting between the gold and the rod.
Could 3.2 trillionths of a gram force cause the rod to swing?
Or is it more likely the dowser's muscles caused the axis of the rod to move so the gravitational force from the earth (Up to 1 gm force) moved the rod? Again NO. If a dowser uses a forked tree branch fresh and green straight from the tree, and holding it with the arms out and fingers pointing up and in towards the body the force can sometimes be so strong that it will break away the bark of the forked branch from the main wooden stem in an attempt to point down to the path of least resistance. This is definitely NOT caused by muscle movement, you can even tense your hand muscles to try and stop it and it will move.
regards to all
|
Hi Dedevil person,
You posted quite an interesting collection of answers to some concepts relating to well known sciences concerning gravity and the force that muscles can impart on rods that are held in the hands.
What you posted raises some questions that make me wonder where you discovered your information. For example these questions:
Question 1.
How much gravitational force do you think is typically imparted on a 23 gm dowsing rod from a relatively large underground stream?
When I ask this question, I am referring to the difference in the gravitational force that the dowser would feel pulling on the rod when there is no underground stream (23 gms) compared to the presumably greater force that he would feel on the rod when there is a large mass of water underground. An amount of pounds or gms, or Kg force would be good to know, so we can know how strongly the added presence of underground water might typically be felt pulling on the dowsing rod by your reconning.
Question 2.
you claim I have the wrong formula for calculating the gravitational attraction between two objects:
F = (G x m1 x m2)/r
where F is grams of gravitational force acting between the buried coin and the rod,
G is the universal gravitational constant, = 6.6726 x 10-11N-m2/kg2
m1 is the mass of the gold coin, 23 gm
m2 is the mass of the brass rod, 23 gm, and
r is the distance between the gold and the rod, 1.5 meters.
For a 23 gm gold coin located 1.6 meters distance from a 23 gm brass rod, I calculated 1.6 trillionths of a gram.
You say this is formula is wrong because you are not talking about planetary motion, and you must use a formula for "INNER planetary motion".
Since you do not feel that I used the correct formula to calculate the gravitational force of attraction between the coin and the rod, then what do you consider the correct formula to calculate the gravitational force of attraction between a 23 gm buried coin located 1.6 meters distance from a 23 gm brass rod, and what attraction force result do you find from your calculation?
Question 3.
In the example where you claimed the force was strong enough to break the bark away from the main stem of a forked branch, did the bark break away at a place near or within the grip of where the dowser had his hands wrapped around the forked branch?
Or did this force cause the bark to tear loose from otherl parts of the branch away from his hands, and fly through the air toward the location of the underground water or other object that the dowser was searching for?
Best wishes,
J_P