Originally Posted by hung (Post 103670)

Now I wonder, after watching videos of similar LRLs in action how many of you still feel like employing the insane method of sweeping a football stadium size field with a broom type standard MD toy?:lol:

Originally Posted by Jim (Post 103676)

After viewing the video, I would much rather sweep a football stadium sized field with an 8" coil than the dot size of a laser beam.

Originally Posted by Tim Williams (Post 103689)

Tell you what. I would like to see the calibration and then move the gold and see if the unit still picks it up. The reason I ask is it is possible that the unit has an internal 3 axis mag and is only triggering on the stored position.

So after you beep on the shelf with the gold ring move it to another place and see what the unit does.

By the way Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all here in geotech.

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi (Post 103694)

I think the most amazing thing about the videos is how the guy manages to keep a straight face during the whole test. :lol:

This is just more pseudo-scientific gobbledygook. Complete rubbish. :razz:

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103696)

Good grief...
That's why all the serious LRL discussions now have moved to the TNET forum.
Here, only a few among the comedy and the notorious comedians were left...

Sometimes just to relax a little I might show up just to join the fun with you people.
May 2010 be a funny year as always here in geoskepthic forums...:D

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103701)

So it's better to discuss there and come here to laugh a little, don't you think?8)

Originally Posted by Carl-NC (Post 103702)

I agree with Tim... the guy only moves the device up & down, never side-to-side.

Originally Posted by Tim Williams (Post 103710)

Hung I'm not saying it does not work.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103696)

Good grief...
That's why all the serious LRL discussions now have moved to the TNET forum.

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont) (Post 103716)

I wouldn't be surprised if theseus was a tnet moderator. You know, that BTK guy. He's bribed his way onto several LRL forums.

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont) (Post 103724)

when in fact

.

Originally Posted by Tim Williams

Tell you what. I would like to see the calibration and then move the gold and see if the unit still picks it up. The reason I ask is it is possible that the unit has an internal 3 axis mag and is only triggering on the stored position.

So after you beep on the shelf with the gold ring move it to another place and see what the unit does.

Originally Posted by putrechigi

i have spoke at MARCO thi is the name of man in the video he said me that the test is only in the house because the weather is bad and the lrl is new and is the first time that he have. next time he will make other test ( in country) and put on youtube, in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right
reguards manolo

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103706)

There's no problem to move it sideways at all. But if he did, I imagine you would come up with another bazooki.

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103728)

i have spoke at MARCO thi is the name of man in the video he said me that the test is only in the house because the weather is bad and the lrl is new and is the first time that he have. next time he will make other test ( in country) and put on youtube, in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right
reguards manolo

Originally Posted by hung

There's no problem to move it sideways at all. But if he did, I imagine you would come up with another bazooki.
"Should exist injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll show up to debunker the big mouths"

Originally posted by putrechigi
in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right

Originally posted by Qiaozhi
Strike one! :razz:

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103728)

he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right
reguards manolo

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103706)

See Jim, what I mean by mambo boys?:lol:

Originally Posted by Theseus (Post 103714)

You have got to be joking! Well.... of course you are joking; you used the word serious and LRL in the same sentence.

Have you actually checked out what few postings are on TNET? The activity over there is all but nil because the TNET forums are way OVER-MODERATED. Also, the Dowsing Forum is definitely Pro-dowsing and whenever anyone tries to post something to question the Pro-dowsers; they are quickly warned and reminded about the biased rules. If they persist, their postings will be removed and they will be banned, never to return.

The TNET forums are a great place to visit about two or three times a year, because the activity is so low, there isn't anything of any consequence going on over there, and it only takes a couple of minutes to read a few postings from Art and Mike; and then you are done.

Although...... I can certainly see why you'd feel more comfortable over there. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103728)

... in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right

manolo

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont) (Post 103724)

It was a Freudian slip. Yes, I know how you use the slight of hand--make people believe one thing when it's really just the opposite. You want people to think anyone who uses an LRL is "gullible" when in fact anyone who listens to you is the gullible one.

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103751)

[quote = WM6; 103.745] manolo Hi,

per favore, dite al vostro amico che ha acquisito dal quindi affermare il diritto di candidarsi per la battuta migliore LRL quest'anno.

A proposito di ciò che il movimento rotativo? [/ Quote]


hahahahhaahahahahahahah:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::l ol:
you happy now?

Originally Posted by Jim (Post 103741)

No, I do not see what you mean. I do see, however, similarities between you and Dell Winders.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103753)

Here the skepthics don't even know of what they are talking about. We can't pass from page 1.

.

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 103754)

Hi hung.

Sceptic are talking about convincing evidence only, that some LRL is working.

However, such evidence from nowhere, regardless of whether we are looking at page 1 or page 999.

Don't forget, sceptic have right on working LRL too.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103758)

I believe merit also plays a big role. The ones who already got to the point of a working LRL turn protective to their creation.

Originally Posted by WM6

Fro my point of view, the sceptics do not want anything less than working LRL, as believers do. So I think sceptics are open minded in this matter.

However, for believers are the hopes and dreams faithful enough to believe in the existence of a functioning LRL, while sceptics can be satisfied only by solid evidence.

But we all know that in religious question can not be handled by the evidence. Believer's faith is sufficient, and he shall not use evidence.

Here skeptics and believers will never come together.

But this is no problem at all. Sceptics can live with this fact.

The problem are those scam artist that to naive believers charge criminal high church tax.

Originally Posted by hung

"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
See: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058

"This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
See: http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226#post41226

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103758)

... When some skeptics here fight against any LRL possibility, they already have built a wall around them and they will never be able to have access to it.

Originally Posted by Astrodetect

Yes I agree with you Hung. As we know Hung and Esteban and Morgan and others have experienced the detection of the phenomenon of LR Detection, so as the rest do not have any experience they should not accuse them, but instead keep an open mind.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.Happy New Year to all.

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 103775)

We have stories along with photos to show solid evidence found by LRL believers.
Dr. hung is an expert in the field of solid evidence.

J_P

Originally Posted by WM6

You are right J_P, "solid evidence" is not completely proper term, I use it just as synonym for scientific evidence obtained under scientific testing rule.

Show us on photos a coin in hand as solid evidence that LRL works is maybe enough for believers, but as scientific evidence such photos and videos are worthless, because they were not obtained in controlled conditions in accordance with scientific rules.

Originally Posted by hung

Originally Posted by Theseus

This sudden rash of condescending comments and remarks directed towards LRL aficionados (believers, salesmen and debunkers) really does not seem to be producing any significant contributions in the way of tangible proofs, evidence or details of validation.

I suggest the new tactic is a failure, and we simply return to the old methods where we point out that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; and let it go at that. When the evidence fails to be presented, then we have our answer. Period. ;)

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 103811)

But aren't we supposed to listen to what LRL experts have to say?

Originally Posted by J_Player

So you think the Remote Sensing forum rules to be prepared to back up your extraordinary claims is a good idea?

originally posted by Theseus
I certainly do. If you don't; what would be a better rule?

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 103819)

I like the idea of being required to back up your extraordinary claims. But I wonder if it would be good to see some kind of rule to kick out chronic pseudoscience experts who refuse to back up their claims, and whine when people ask them to prove what they say is true.

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Theseus

In a perfect world, or alternatively a perfect Remote Sensing Forum, perhaps that kind of wording for a rule might be considered.

However, as we both know, there is no such thing as a perfect world or a perfect RS Forum. And, in light of Carl's phrase in his Intro sticky; "I would like to keep this forum as open as possible.." - it would seem that demanding the purveyors of pseudo and wish science back up their claims, or move on, would be contrary to the desire to keep the forum as open as possible. :)

I personally keep holding onto the idea that some day one of the LRL aficionados will actually come forward with a meaningful piece of evidence. Perhaps I am overly naive, but if we banish them from the forum, there is no possibility of ever learning or experiencing useful evidence from them. ;)

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 103824)

Should also hold onto the idea that there is a possibility I will see meaningful evidence of gold DNA and that substance it produces to inhibit corrosion?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Theseus

It's one thing to keep listening with an open mind, and consider various possibilities for proposed theories and claims. However, I think as listeners we also have a personal responsibility to ourselves, to separate (filter) the ridiculous from the sublime, and not waste a lot of time or resources evaluating that which was presented in jest or pure silliness. Of course that's just my opinion... :D

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103753)

That's normal when some people share the same awareness.
It's the same for you, ozzy here and aft 1733 for instance. Very similar and lookalikes.

But you can't compare the discussions that happen here with the ones over TNET. They not even compare.
TNET discussions are deep with real experienced LRL users.
Here the skepthics don't even know of what they are talking about. We can't pass from page 1.

Don't feel bad when you feel you think you 'lost a battle' in discussions with Art and Dell for instance. This is not a war... On the contrary, try to learn something from them. I am positive that it's just a matter of time for you to become an ex-skeptic. This will happen sooner or later.

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103867)

new video in country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1j...eature=channel

if there aren't joke i think that every metal industries is finished;);)

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103868)

hung you are right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-a4b...eature=channel

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103878)

I knew it. There was simply no reason why the laser would not work in the horizontal axis, since a simple pentaprism aproach makes it work both in the X and Y axis.

The indoor video clearly shows the laser modulated to the gold frequency and it does not reflect any other target at the wall when moved sideways.
Congratulations to OKM for the evolution regarding the previous model. Now it's easy to pinpoint the target. Maybe my team will get one to team up with the MIDAS.:D

The outdoor videos show the device detecting at distance in normal mode. Notice how the laser is turned off.
I will talk to Alonso about maybe employing a laser beam in substitution to the IR leds for pinpointing in the Mineoros. Let's see what he says.

Putrechigi, thanks very much for posting the videos. You were faster than OKM's support regarding a reply to my querie.
Now everything is clear.

Best regards.

Originally Posted by Fred

This is why i wrote it could be distance related.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103739)

Hi Manolo.
Sorry, but your sentence in bold is wrong information. Either you misunderstood it or your friend misexpressed himself.
The Bionic 01 mode of searching is performed as an horizontal axis scan.
The early model did not feature the laser pinpointer and the target always had to be pinpointed by triangulation.
So this information is not correct.

Now, if the new model features a laser pinpointer that can be only used in the vertical axis, this simply does not make sense. Scanning the laser in both axis would be very simple by using a pentaprism for instance and it would just plain absurd having one axis limitation in the pinpointing after the device has detected a long distance target.

Imagine if this happened to the IR leds in the FG80...

I'll be in contact with one of the tech guys in OKM Germany and have him clarify this.

Regards.

Originally Posted by Theseus

...That still doesn't prove it is only detecting gold, just that the operator is not pressing a switch to activate the lights.

Next would be to try and move a small dental inspection mirror into the beam, or perhaps other shiny metal objects.

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103750)

[quote = appeso; 103.739] Hi Manolo.
Ci dispiace, ma la tua frase in grassetto è l'informazione sbagliata. O si frainteso o il tuo amico misexpressed stesso.
The Bionic 01 modalitÃ* di ricerca è effettuata come un asse di scansione orizzontale.
Il modello iniziale non ha la funzione di pinpointer laser e il bersaglio doveva essere sempre individuato con una triangolazione.
Quindi questa informazione non è corretta.

Ora, se il nuovo modello dispone di un pinpointer laser che può essere utilizzato solo in verticale, questo semplicemente non ha senso. Scansione laser in entrambi gli assi sarebbe molto semplice utilizzando un pentaprisma, ad esempio, e sarebbe semplicemente assurdo che un asse di limitazione della individuazione dopo che il dispositivo ha rilevato un obiettivo a lunga distanza.

Immaginate se questo è accaduto per il led a infrarossi in FG80 ...

Sarò in contatto con uno dei ragazzi tech OKM in Germania e hanno lo chiarire questo punto.

Saluti. [/ Quote]
hello hung as you know I believe in lrl and I just said what I said to my friend Mark, 01 bionic 'a new lrl in Italy as soon as anyone has proven the poster' results, I also believe he can 'do errors since it has not done many tests
reguards manolo

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 103887)

I know of ways to cause a detector with a laser to respond only to gold seen in the air.
A more important question is "Can it find buried treasures?"

To see if this locator can detect buried gold, you would need to bury a gold item at least a few inches under the ground, wouldn't you?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hi J_P

I know how it works OKM,some products are resonable if ground conditions are good,but this bionic is worst than mineoro,i have friends who try this near HOT places and find nothing,this is expensive LRL for rich people,not TH tool.

Regards

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103867)

new video in country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1j...eature=channel

if there aren't joke i think that every metal industries is finished;);)

Originally Posted by Morgan (Post 103886)

Happy new year for all forum members

Hello Hung

Let me tell you that i visit OKM in Germany some years ago,when the LRL production center was near the feunf minuten strass (five minute stret).
After the OKM lrl field demonstration i come to the conclusion this products are not good. They fail completly,not found 1kg of silver objects (i buried 30 cm near the OKM factury), They said its becouse ground conditions...:nono:

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103892)

Hi Morgan,

A few points to clarify.

1 - I had the proof that the Bionic 01 works when a thunter here told me he had been in an expedition with a peruvian friend who had one. My friend had his FG80 with him. They located several pounds of gold at long range. The Bionic 01 apparently in that occasion detected it first and then the FG80 followed it making my friend conclude the OKM device had more range. The FG80 was used to pinpoint the target as the Bionic at that time could not except by employing triangulation as their site shows.
Even with this apparent limitation, my friend was impressed at the detecting capabilities of the device.
Well, this was the old model.

2 - The device appearing in the videos is obviously an upgrade model with several enhancements, such as a more stable and precise circuit, for what I could see and a laser pinpointer.
The detector now features the laser pinpointer to overcome the limitation it had for pinpointing the object. The laser is absolutely not the detector itself.
It is modulated at the receiver's probes same frequency to be used in the pinpointing process.

3 - It's easy claim some detector does not work if you have not found anything with it.

I trust my friend and got a detailed report of the device behavior.
So although I'm not familiar with the device itself, I'm familiar with the technology it might employ and based on that, I can safely say they have made their homework and there is no reason at all to think that the person in the video is making everything up.

So, please change your mind.
The PD is a reality. So is the OKM's BIONIC 01.
Regards.

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hi
In this video we can see Manolo´s friend detect at considerable distance one gold item previously buried,this means the new BIONIC is able to locate fresh buried gold at several meters distance. And if Marco is a serios person,he have one amazing LRL device,superior than my PD.
But we need to know if its all true...Yes i can change my mind

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 103884)

You mean like a laser range-finder?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103898)

hi morgan nice to see you again in the forum next saturday if MARCO can go at my house i test bionic two hears ego i tell him if is possible to buy bionic and he said me that was not good lrl now is different with dis bionic 01 he tell me is very simple to find gold i not watc personali bionic at work and i said only what he said me but is serious man ha sel metal fro many ears and if wrong in italy he stopped his work you know what i want to said

P.S. in october you tell me that go in italy for to find a treasure you was?

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 103900)

Yes, or ultrasound , could be also an IR thermometer :
ULTRASONIC ROOM MEASURE DISTANCE METER WITH LASER POINT:
Non-Contact IR Infrared Thermometer Laser Gun


Originally posted by Qiaozhi
...Even if this gadget was actually capable of detecting gold at a distance, could you imagine scanning a large terrain using a small laser beam. It would take forever! :nono:

Theseus is correct. A better test would be to keep the device stationary while moving selected targets in front of the beam.

Originally Posted by Morgan (Post 103905)

For personal reasons i could not go to Germany in the last october.My friends found the treasure,it was hidden during the WW II.

Well,if your friend Marco tell the true about this new BIONIC,its time for you to tell us about HOW IT WORKS, DISTANCE(single gold coin) and Depht,its very good that you can see this device working,no need to pay for plain tickets ;)

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 103907)

Sure, Ultrasonic rangefinders use laser pinpointers to show what you are aiming at. But there are also laser rangefinders that do not use ultrasound. These work by measuring time of flight of laser pulses, with the advantage of better range and penetration through haze and fog. Instead of using a separate visible laser to show where you are pointing, they have a monocular that you can see your target with while reading the distance. The more advanced versions can measure several objects in the distance at the same time, and display all of them. Some even measure the distance of moving targets. These are popular with hunters, and with and golfers who want to know how far away their golf ball is. Hmmm... If there are laser ranging optics that can identify a moving target in the OKM, then moving a gold target in front of the OKM would not show it changing its response when the target is moved.. :shocked:

Does the OKM use laser ranging electronics?
Maybe... didn't you see how the user kept it pointed at the top of the shovel handle right up to the final steps when he turned it off?

But maybe it is more advanced than simple laser rangefinding. Maybe it is identifying the material that the laser strikes. If this is the case, then we can see it identified the material in the shovel handle from at a considerable distance. It certainly was not pinpointing at the ground where the gold was buried, he was pinpointing the shovel handle conveniently placed a few feet above the ground where the laser beam could hit it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1j...eature=channel


I wonder if it can identify buried gold when there is no shovel to aim at?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Morgan

Manolo told this man is a MD dealer,so maybe he is trying to introduce Bionic-01 using black magic(hope not) ,but i will wait for Manolo field test report,we will see if this device is realy good or not...

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103898)

hi morgan nice to see you again in the forum next saturday if MARCO can go at my house i test bionic two hears ego i tell him if is possible to buy bionic and he said me that was not good lrl now is different with dis bionic 01 he tell me is very simple to find gold i not watc personali bionic at work and i said only what he said me but is serious man ha sel metal fro many ears and if wrong in italy he stopped his work you know what i want to said

P.S. in october you tell me that go in italy for to find a treasure you was?

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103927)

hi my frends i'm not here for to sell metal ot lrl but only to know if at last we are at a turning point regarding the lrl just possibile if Mark has not yet sold all the pieces will go in an old abandoned village to see if in the really condition find gold and silver
reguards

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103929)

Skepthics here in this forum are hilarious.
They usually watch LRL video demonstrations as they are watching a David Copperfield or Chris Angel show tryng to figue out where the tricks are...:lol::lol:

From the Series 'skepthics favorite quotes' Vol 1:

'It's a trick'
'It's obviously a scam'
'Why did he not do this?'
'He could have done that'
'Ah.. It's a trick of the mind' - this one is my favorite 'heavy metal quote'.:lol:
'Ah... Suppose there's a pushbutton switch...'
'Hummm...extraordinary claim calls for extraordinary poohh'(pun intended)

*********
There are a bunch more but I will leave those for Vol 2 .. Hey, this is boring...

Manolo, even if you and Marco do detect gold with the device and video tape it, people here will not believe you and will use some of their favorite quotes above.
You know, skepthics already found out that the real inventor of LRLs is Chris Angel.:ninja:

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi (Post 103930)

There are many anomalies with both videos.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103929)

You know, skepthics already found out that the real inventor of LRLs is Chris Angel.:ninja:

Originally Posted by Fred

Not only there is plenty of anomalies on those videos, but also there is absolutely nothing that shows something being really "detected".
So, based on those videos we would have to be particularly stupid to buy such a device or just believe it does something usefull.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103931)

Actually there are 5 available videos to watch so far.

But I may agree with you on the anomalies...
Since you are in this subject, what about the anomalies found in the man on the moon videos in '69? Very suspicious eh? Those shades... I think it was a bad trick of the light... A hoax. What about you?

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103947)

Manolo, even if you and Marco do detect gold with the device and video tape it, people here will not believe you and will use some of their favorite quotes above.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 103931)

Actually there are 5 available videos to watch so far.

But I may agree with you on the anomalies...
Since you are in this subject, what about the anomalies found in the man on the moon videos in '69? Very suspicious eh? Those shades... I think it was a bad trick of the light... A hoax. What about you?

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 103947)

Manolo, even if you and Marco do detect gold with the device and video tape it, people here will not believe you and will use some of their favorite quotes above.




i think before saying if it works or not must attend in person and in real-world research, many people start with a negative thought I can respect but not share, from mature person I am, without starting with jokes and mocking forum
best reguardsI

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104079)

So as I had previously claimed here, there's no such thing as a 'laser detector' as some here erroneously suggested.

.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104079)

It's clear that OKM evolved the inner ionic circuit/ionic mode aproach to be able to detect also fresh items from a distance as the Tyon for instance already does.

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104093)

So long for the long-time burried metals theory.No more gold ions floating around ? :frown:

Originally Posted by hung

Sorry. I used the term 'at a distance' in a wrong way refering to the laser and IR led detection.
The term should actually be at a 'short' distance, since in the case of Mineoro and possibly the Bionic 01, they are pinpointers modulated at the receiver's probe frequencies.

The ionic emissions behave exactly like before and 'captured' by ionic chamber in Mineoro and apparently also by an ionic chamber type sensor in the BIonic 01 since this is what they claim in the manual.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104097)

The ionic emissions behave exactly like before and 'captured' by ionic chamber in Mineoro and apparently also by an ionic chamber type sensor in the BIonic 01 since this is what they claim in the manual.

Originally Posted by Fred

This is disturbing.
Untill now i was understanding that gold was releasing ions slowly after being burried 10 or more years.
Now you tell me that every piece of fresh gold laying around is evaporating and releasing an heavy fux of ions.- and the bionic01 and mineoros rely on this principle to detect it...
:shocked:

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104112)

This is disturbing.
Untill now i was understanding that gold was releasing ions slowly after being burried 10 or more years.
Now you tell me that every piece of fresh gold laying around is evaporating and releasing an heavy fux of ions.- and the bionic01 and mineoros rely on this principle to detect it...
:shocked:

Originally Posted by Theseus (Post 104116)

Don't be disturbed, Fred. Do not trouble yourself with false understanding.

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104112)

This is disturbing.
Untill now i was understanding that gold was releasing ions slowly after being burried 10 or more years.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104130)

I did not say that.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104130)

...through reflex and modulation

Originally Posted by Fred

Ok, those devices don´t rely on ion emanations to detect gold. I understand.


My conclusion is that they only detect non-buried gold. :shocked:

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 104156)

regardless of what you think if bionic not work, I'd be the first to say, just waiting to do tests before coming to conclusions

Originally Posted by Carl-NC (Post 104170)

I agree. Like the Mineoro, the Bionic "seems too good to be true," so cautious skepticism is certainly warranted. But, also like the Mineoro, I'll wait to see it in person before I make a conclusion.

- Carl

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104174)

<< comedy routine snipped >>
That's why you have never been taken seriously by the experienced LRL users over TNET.

Originally Posted by hung

The question in debate is how good the BIonic 01 performs.

Originally Posted by hung

I don't have the slightest doubt the Bionic 01 works. So does Mineoro, Electroscope, RT, you name it.
Why? Because in the case of Mineoros and RT, I found gold with them many times.

Originally Posted by putrechigi (Post 104156)

ok perfect I see that many have 'drawn the conclusions, I respect but do not share them, I apologize to anyone who wanted more news, but the tests we do "positive or negative will be" soon will not be posted, if you're interested contact me in mp


regardless of what you think if bionic not work, I'd be the first to say, just waiting to do tests before coming to conclusions
reguards

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104174)

Why? Because in the case of Mineoros and RT, I found gold with them many times.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104174)

You simply discard owners and LRL user testimonies if it does not fit your agenda.

When you discard all our testimonies, you start to act as irrational and altist, ignoring evidences of sucessful users. And by doing that, you infer we are all liers.

Originally Posted by Carl-NC (Post 104186)

As always, I am open to anyone showing me that I'm wrong. - Carl

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104191)

Folks at TNET ferinstance, have proved you wrong many times.

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

They've disagreed with me, and they've posted lots of testimonials, but no "proof." Heck, I've personally MET some of the TNet denizens over the years, and every single one of them failed when they tried to demonstrate an LRL to me.

How can I possibly believe that LRLs work when every single demonstration (by others, not me!) has resulted in failure? And yet I'm still willing to let anyone try. I've offered to visit Dell, Mike-Mont, Art, and others. Sorry, South America is not on my list right now.

- Carl

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104200)

If I am wrong, then any LRL enthusiast can easily prove it by showing their LRL recovering treasure live in front of skeptic witnesses like Carl. A video of their demonstration would prove that they are right and Carl is wrong.


Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104203)

Hi J_P.

What about the 2 videos of Esteban????
Why you don't take them as proof???;;;

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
I think that we say the "same". Where is the problem if Carl go to Paraguay to see with his eyes the LRL???? If Carl go and see the LRLs from Esteban, i don't need videos to believe him. If Carl will say don't work, for me will be the same as i had saw it.

Regards:)

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104215)

Hi Geo,
I would believe a report that Carl made also.
He is the strongest skeptic who wants to see real proof instead of videos.
So if he says it works, then I will believe he is telling a true story after making many tests.
There are only two problems of Carl going to Paraguay:

1. Carl's travel plans do not include going to places in South America for now. From Carl's post above:
"I've offered to visit Dell, Mike-Mont, Art, and others. Sorry, South America is not on my list right now".

2. Any plans to win $25,000 will not happen, because the prize contest was suspended some time ago:
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...ile=reward.dat
Until this prize is reinstated, any demonstrations are only done for the purpose of demonstration, not to win money.

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Geo

So...., what are we doing now:lol:

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104208)

I have not so perfect LRL, so to make public presentations. But i believe that the Esreban's video is true, so it is more cheap for Carl to go a travel to Paraguay and see the Esteban's LRL to work than to pay 25000 $.
What are you think about it???

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104242)

I dont't have right to speak and decide in Carl's name, i am not his advocate too, but...don't you think that trip to Paraguay is a bit expensive and time consuming? It is not just a trip to next place, few miles away! And for what? Just to check some suspicious claims!? With respect to Esteban....but we do not know who is Esteban for real and what are his intentions. All we know is that Esteban is member here, pretty descent guy most of the time..except when LRL comes to be subject! :lol::razz:
God only knows what is in Esteban's head for real!? Or your? On my?
My point is that it is not piece of cake simply to catch a plane and go to Paraguay just like that!
Carl could face same situation as you faced visiting Morgan; previously good prepared conditions and field where tested LRL subject could show real "performances".
Real test would be to "surprise" Esteban (or any other LRL proponent) by visiting (or inviting) him to some neutral place where situation is unknown for both sides and unprepared by any side.
For example; Esteban and Carl both can come to third place and perform very objective test on unknown and uprepared soil and conditions.
Somewhere in the middle between Oregon and Paraguay. Fair enough.

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104238)

Hi Geo,
I don't know what you are doing, but I am watching a video of the Bionic 01 detecting a shovel at long range, and waiting to see what Putrechigi says after he sees it demonstrated to find buried gold instead of a different target located near the buried gold. :)


Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104246)

Ha! Weak argument!

White's DFX (Oregon,USA) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia) !!!
Minelab Explorer SE (Australia) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
Cscope 1220B (UK) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
.....
Do you need more arguments?

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104207)

Video clips are not good proofs. We must realize that once for all. No matter what is presented on video.
Like Carl said; most convinced can be if see presentation in person. Even than; presentation must be done in fair and objective manner. Spectators must have chance to suggest the way of testing and presenting.
I have been attendant at many simillar presentations in the past. I've seen all the common tricks that people can perform during presentations. Usually, tricks are purposely performed to trick spectators. But also i've seen unpurposely tricks of the mind of performer. Some dowsers are stil not awared how easily they becoming victims of trick of the mind in those situations. In several cases i helped to few of them to finaly understand that it was plain trick of the mind and nothing else.
So...bottom line is fact that video clips are not proofs at all. Everything can be arranged to "prove" or "disaprove" some situation, in video clip.
More you talk and more you rely on clips - more questions and doubts you can expect.
.......
If you really have revolutionary design and you really are sure in its functionallity - than once for all accept regular ways to present it to public.
Organize public presentations and be ready to answer all the possible questions.

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104200)

What !!?
Are you sure every single demonstration of an LRL failed when TNEt LRL enthusiasts tried to demonstrate their LRLs working?

What does this mean? Is hung wrong when he says "they proved you wrong many times"?
How come these LRL enthusiasts didn't make any mention of how they failed at every single LRL demonstration?
Now I am starting to wonder....

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104208)

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104253)

"....But LRLs don't work so good and every time as metal detectors works, so this is the reason that i want to see test at more places.... to understand what is happening...."

LRLs don't work at all, that's the problem.

What is happening..? Many things are hapening, most of all is trick of the mind. LRL's like PD pistol and simillar are "receiving" all the possible hums, mums and interferences, radio waves etc...etc... You may say that PD pistol was "selective" than, when you tested it. It beeped only in one direction. I agree. It's musty design offers enough adjustments to prevent all arround reception. Use of ferrite antena and conventional search coil and by adjusting it can preserve certain "selectivity", so it can beep only to one direction. I put many remarks on videos you recorded there. I don't want to repeat myself. But it is obvious that PD can not detect nothing 20-30cm away from search coil surface. "Detection" we saw on those videos is fake.
It was just simple directional respond to some distant signal, nothing else.
Same thing with Zahori...it responds to power lines at more distance than PD. I "detected" HV power line at 120 meters with my latest Zahori. But i was not fooled to beleive that it is detecting something passive and burried into soil.
And Zahori also showed perfect directional sensitivity. I could record video clip also, with claims that Zahori detects some ...ring or coin. I could place that ring or coin in direction to power line and swinging with Zahori i could show and "prove" real detection in front of the camera.
Same thing with various Esteban's IR,FM,AM,VHF,UHF,LF...etc...etc LRL devices, he already presented here on these forums.
It doesn't really matter which method person will use to make such LRL detector. In all cases it is sensitivity on (and detection of) some interference, some field, some hum, mum or radio wave. In all cases! I guarantee!
No matter if IR was used or FM or whatever...same principle either.
Basically those are always based on some ultra high impendance inputs, pretty sensitive even to smallest charge. The rest of job at such devices is just how to "chasten" those wild signals and how to make device directionaly sensitive.....end of a story, end of a secret. Big deal!
If i was there with you i would take PD from Morgan's hands and i would walk with it far away from Morgan's place and search for any other "signal". Each eventuall signal i would try to explore and distinguish it's source.
Pitty...i couldn't afford to come with you. My problem, not your.

Originally Posted by Carl-NC (Post 104264)

Of everyone I know of dabbling in LRLs, Esteban is the one who intrigues me the most. I would like to meet up with him and see what he has. I can't do it this year for certain, but maybe 2011 will be a little kinder.

- Carl

Originally Posted by Geo

I don't agree. PD working to all directions. I don't remember if this is showing at video, but at second case (foil), it detected it from North to South from 3m distance and from the other directions from 1m.
Zahori and PD are not the same thing. I found two old buried objects with my PD, so i know for what i speak.
About Esteban.... i can't speak for him, He is Here......
I close this thread for PD, but because i want to be fair with Morgan, i must tell that Morgan told me to go next day at mountain for treasure hunting with PD and i did not went, because i saw what i wanted to saw.

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104287)

I don't agree. PD working to all directions. I don't remember if this is showing at video, but at second case (foil), it detected it from North to South from 3m distance and from the other directions from 1m.
Zahori and PD are not the same thing. I found two old buried objects with my PD, so i know for what i speak.
About Esteban.... i can't speak for him, He is Here......
I close this thread for PD, but because i want to be fair with Morgan, i must tell that Morgan told me to go next day at mountain for treasure hunting with PD and i did not went, because i saw what i wanted to saw.

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104257)

No trick has been done! This will be against only me... :)

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104306)

Originally Posted by Carl-NC (Post 104264)

I've witnessed and tested a number of people, including a few who have, at one time or another, been part of the TNet LRL forum. None of those people hang out there now, have no idea why.

I think Hung is trying to argue that they've "proved me wrong" with their words and testimonials. Probably in the same way that Hung has proven the operation of Mineoro LRLs with all the gold he has recovered with them.



Lots and lots of people claim to have a "really works" LRL, or claim to be proficient dowsers. Being skeptical of these claims, I get a lot of flack from some people for not being willing to visit each and every claimant so they can prove me wrong. But I just can't afford to travel to each and every wannabedowser. That's why, when I created my challenge prize, I limited it to known manufacturers.

Of everyone I know of dabbling in LRLs, Esteban is the one who intrigues me the most. I would like to meet up with him and see what he has. I can't do it this year for certain, but maybe 2011 will be a little kinder.

- Carl

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104304)

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi (Post 104318)

According to the original article the Zahori was designed as an electronic version of a dowsing rod for finding underground water. In fact, the word "zahori" means "dowser". As a reminder, I have attached the article that I translated from Spanish into English.

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104320)

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi (Post 104322)

The Elektor article was published in October 1987. Therefore, if you saw this circuit in the 70s, perhaps the author adapted it to become an electronic dowsing rod. :shocked:

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104306)

Originally Posted by sweatofglory (Post 104327)

Hi Ivconic,

Thanks for your concern. Next month, I will be testing my LRL using program that I had been installed in my laptop computer. If I could not find something of value, I guess, that is the time for me to discontinue my research & experiment and do something productive, instead of wasting my precious time in the fantasy world of LRL's.:):):)

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104326)

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104358)

Hallo ivconic

Ist nicht zu finden in Oktober Heft:

www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104358)

Hallo ivconic

Ist nicht zu finden in Oktober Heft:

www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf

Originally Posted by g-sani (Post 104335)

Nobody knows better than my pocket if LRLs work or not.
Well unless I am not in my trousers alone.:lol::lol::lol:

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104247)

Hi J_P.
I wrote my position with my experience from Bionic Alfa. I am not sure about Bionic01, but the Japan laser that i saw, worked very easy compared to Bionic. It did not like the beam to be exactly on the object, but if the "line" was up of the object then you had a strong beep.

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi G-Sani.
Don't try to convince the other people!!!!!
J_P wrote it.... "It is not your job to convince other people".
But is it job of the other people to convince us that the LRL don't work????
Or the other people can say their opinion but we can't say our opinion.

Regards:)

Originally Posted by ivconic (Post 104362)

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104368)

Hi Geo,
I think you do not understand what I said. Here is the what I posted:
My meaning is you are not required convince people. It is the responsibility of each individual to find their own proof that they consider suitable to convince themselves. If you decide you want to convince people that something works or does not work, then you are free to speak as you please.

Anybody can post their opinion here. But I will not take posted opinions to be the same as proof I see with my own eyes and in my own hands... the same as you did not take it to be the same. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by g-sani (Post 104367)

Hi Geo, sorry I cannot keep my mouth shut my friend.
You see when somebody tries to give us his valueable knowledge in a subject(LRL) that otherwise you need a lot of money to spend to understand things on yourself then you cannot come back to him saying that he was using remote controlled devices in his video to fool us.
Lets be fair and respect a few things.
Even if it is so I don't think this is the right behaviour anyway.:nono:



Can you tell me anything more about the Japaneese Laser that you have mentioned in your post above?
Is it something out in the market?Can I see it in internet?

Many regards
g-sani

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104383)

Σου τηλ 3 φορες και δεν το σηκωσες (Τωρα στις γιορτες).
Ισχυει το παλιο σου κινητο??


Regards:)

Originally Posted by sweatofglory (Post 104327)

Hi Ivconic,

Thanks for your concern. Next month, I will be testing my LRL using program that I had been installed in my laptop computer. If I could not find something of value, I guess, that is the time for me to discontinue my research & experiment and do something productive, instead of wasting my precious time in the fantasy world of LRL's.:):):)

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104406)

Hi Esteban.
Nice photo!!!
Can you attach some photos yet, especially for us the LRL believers :lol:

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104408)

This is not esoteric LRL , it works on known and explained basis.
And yes, interesting picture.

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104409)

Read complete here

http://books.google.com.py/books?id=...age&q=&f=false

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104409)

Read complete here

http://books.google.com.py/books?id=...age&q=&f=false

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104409)

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:

Originally Posted by Esteban

Read complete here

http://books.google.com.py/books?id=...age&q=&f=false

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:

Originally posted by Fred
Until their principles is explained and demonstrated, i am afraid yes...

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104403)

Is not fantasy... but you can wasting also your time in other things...

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104417)

Hi Esteban,
Fred is correct. The article you showed of using VLF radio transmitters and receivers to survey the ground for mineral anomalies are well known and are commonly used by geologists today. Hundreds of geologist and exploration companies make survey maps to plot the location of underground objects and anomalies using computer programs similar to Tim William's Geo-plotters. The properties of VLF radio waves penetrating the ground and returning signals detected with a loop antenna is very well known by geologists. There is nothing esoteric about these methods to detect anomalies under the ground.

The pistols you show use secret circuits to generate secret signals that detect unknown "phenomenal" entities that have never been demonstrated to exist in front of any peer who was permitted to take measurements of the unknown "phenomenon" and secret signals. For this reason, the pistols you are referring to fall into the category of "esoteric".

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Esteban

Only I share it... show was done 80 years ago... I know that many negates even the possibility of these radio waves for locating treasures.

Now inferences of esoterism is your "bonus"...

Originally Posted by J_Player

Fred is correct. The article you showed of using VLF radio transmitters and receivers to survey the ground for mineral anomalies are well known and are commonly used by geologists today. Hundreds of geologist and exploration companies make survey maps to plot the location of underground objects and anomalies using computer programs similar to Tim William's Geo-plotters. The properties of VLF radio waves penetrating the ground and returning signals detected with a loop antenna is very well known by geologists. There is nothing esoteric about these methods to detect anomalies under the ground.

The pistols you show use secret circuits to generate secret signals that detect unknown "phenomenal" entities that have never been demonstrated to exist in front of any peer who was permitted to take measurements of the unknown "phenomenon" and secret signals. For this reason, the pistols you are referring to fall into the category of "esoteric".

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104477)

Hi Esteban,

The word "esoteric" in the English language means:
private; secret; confidential; and
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest;

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104477)

Hi Esteban,
Apparently you did not read my words or translate them correctly. I put them below again:
What I said is the article you show from years ago is not esoteric. It shows VLF methods to locate things under the ground that are well known and used by hundreds of geologists and exploration companies today as well.

But your pistols are esoteric, because they use circuits that are secret to locate unknown phenomenal entities.

The word "esoteric" in the English language means:
private; secret; confidential; and
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest;

This word describes your pistols.
Your pistols are not the same as VLF surveying that the article from Popular Science shows. VLF surveying does not use pistols with secret circuits that make beeps when the "phenomenon" is detected. And VLF surveying is not secret technology. The same VLF loop detectors shown in the Popular Science article were further developed by mining interests to become standard equipment used to survey subsurface anomalies today. VLF surveying is not private, secret, confidential, or understood only by a select few. It is well understood by mining engineers, geologists and engineers who work with RF. Look here if you think the method shown in Popular Science is a lost art that nobody uses today: http://www.subsurfacesurveys.com/vlf.htm

I did not make a bonus inference of esoteric. I stated a fact.
When Fred stated the fact that your pistols are esoteric, I confirmed that Fred is correct. It is a fact, not an inference.
Fred is correct that secret pistols reserved for a few are esoteric. This is the meaning of the word.

I also agree the photos you posted are interesting.

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104417)

Hi Esteban,
Fred is correct. The article you showed of using VLF radio transmitters and receivers to survey the ground for mineral anomalies are well known and are commonly used by geologists today. Hundreds of geologist and exploration companies make survey maps to plot the location of underground objects and anomalies using computer programs similar to Tim William's Geo-plotters. The properties of VLF radio waves penetrating the ground and returning signals detected with a loop antenna is very well known by geologists. There is nothing esoteric about these methods to detect anomalies under the ground.

The pistols you show use secret circuits to generate secret signals that detect unknown "phenomenal" entities that have never been demonstrated to exist in front of any peer who was permitted to take measurements of the unknown "phenomenon" and secret signals. For this reason, the pistols you are referring to fall into the category of "esoteric".

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104556)

Or maybe hermetic? :lol:

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104560)

Because humidity harm the pistol, it can not be hermetic.

Originally Posted by Esteban\

Most pistols doesn't generate signals, just receive it... no secrets signals here... You want me to appear like author of these words... Oh!!! Maybe IR, but you know the frequency used...

Ghost? :lol:

Originally Posted by Esteban

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104563)

So, you have problem with pistols that work and not with all the other that theoretically worked but at practice don't work:lol:.

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104564)

There is no possibility anyone will think you authored the words in my post. Everybody knows I am the author of the words in my post because they are clearly labeled with my screen name on them. But the idea of your pistols being esoteric did not come from me. You were the originator of the concept when you asked if Fred if they are esoteric here : http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=104409&postcount=176
And it was Fred who answered your question, saying they are esoteric.
Are you still claiming your pistols are not esoteric?
Doesn't the English word esoteric have the same meaning as "esotérica" in Spanish?

My claim is your pistols are esoteric, and Fred is correct.
As far as I know, the pistols you are referring to generate secret signals and locate unknown "phenonenal" entities. If you are now claiming most of your pistols do not, then this is news to me. But it is not news to me that your pistols are esoteric. Everybody who reads this forum knows this is a fact because they have learned you will not publish your circuits or describe the details of how to build a pistol to work as you claim it works. The only exception I can think of is the circuit you posted of a Zahori. Most builders say it does not work as you claim.

Readers of this forum learned you will not tell what circuits and are in your pistols except to show tiny circuit drawings that cannot be read, and you will not tell exactly what physical phenomenon your pistols are detecting. You even admitted that you don't know what physical phenomenon, your are just assuming. We know the pistols you show in your photos are esoteric also because they are not known as modern methods of VLF surveying in the mining industry or known by the industry engineers who use VLF surveying techniques that you showed in the Popular Science article. Instead your pistols are reserved for a select few, with the circuitry hidden from public view.

Do you still claim your pistols are not esoteric?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104568)

Also my receiver pistol can be VLF when is tuned in very low frequency, or LF when is tuned in 80 Khz, for example. So, is not esoteric.

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104567)

Geo, you can be sure that I will be first happy buyer of first working LRL as claimed from producer.


Unfortunately still waiting on it. Seems hopeless.

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104572)

Who told you that i sell LRLs???
Anything i make, i make it for myself:)

Originally Posted by Esteban

Is the VLF surveying isoteric because they don't show his circuits? Do you can show us such circuits or similar? Maybe the only you can show me is block diagram.

Also my receiver pistol can be VLF when is tuned in very low frequency, or LF when is tuned in 80 Khz, for example. Known methods. So, is not esoteric.

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104576)

Geo we have language problem, I am not told that you sell something like LRL.

There are enough producer of nonworking LRLs that was mentioned.

You are on right way, I hope.

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104611)

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104611)

If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104619)

Geo, LRL circuit oscillating due his weak stability or excessive sensitivity to different external influences we cannot treated as phenomenon.

You can put such circuit in pistol, gun or howitzer you still cannot detect nothing like gold in soil.

You can use instead simple dowsing rod - it is cheaper and work better for experienced dowser.

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104631)

Hi Geo,
don´t forget we have reverse-engineered and built the PD , we spent a lot of time in it and we could not find any special detection effect.

Of course there is always more tests that could have been done, but the amount of time we can waste is not unlimited.
From what i could understand, believing the (serious) people that have tested the PD (you Esteban and Morgan), the effect is strong but unreliable, thus useless.

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Fred.
I can't forget the time that we spend at Alonso's PD:lol:.
I wrote and other times.... The big problem was the bad "phenomenon" and not the PD.....
Yes, the Alonso's PD is not so useful to me, but my PD is a little better, don't need so critical adjustment (i modified it). But there are better LRLs that make fantastic job. I will write again....
For a person that likes the coin hunting the PD is useless, but for a person that look for big treasures the LRL is Must.

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104643)

You don't understand me!!!!!.
You must understand that the basic problem is the "phenomenon" and not the Pistol or "gun" or "bomb"!!!. If there is the "phenomenon" then it is very easy to detect it!!!!.

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104647)

Hi Geo,
Did you ever check to see how far the PD can locate a shovel?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104660)

:lol::lol::lol:

Going to the field now...

Originally Posted by WM6

Hi hung, be carefull in the field, you can easily debunker yourself there.

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104669)

hung already has debunkered himself here. You can read all the complaints about the fake videos he sent here to try to prove he built a working LRL, as well as fake information he provided about science, and facts he provided that were shown to be not true.

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104660)

Jeez... how many more eons will this have to be repeated?

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104586)

VLF surveying is not esoteric because it is used as a standard tool to survey below the ground by hundreds of geologists, engineers and ;exploration companies all over the world to locate subterranean anomalies for their clients. This is a standard known science used in conjunction with other standard known sciences such as resistivity, induced polarization magnetic surveys, and numerous other standard gelological methods. The VLF equipment used by geologists is manufactured and sold as a standard item that can be bought from any of several manufacturers, just as broadcast radio receivers can be bought from manufacturers by consumers. And this field is not esoteric. The methods are well documented in books that anyone can read to see for themselves. Here is one of hundreds of books you could read to see it is not a secret hidden science: http://books.google.com/books?id=Fmo...ceiver&f=false


There is nothing esoteric about VLF equipment used in standard gelogical VLF surveys that are done today. But there is something very esoteric about using vlf equipment with secret circuits to make beeps at unknown phenomena. In fact, none of the people who conduct standard VLF geological surveys use any secret circuits that make beeps at unknown phenomenon when they conduct their surveys.

Vlf equipment used for these surveys is very well understood and has been used for years. Anyone who knows how to build an am broadcast radio receiver can easily build a VLF receiver. If they are not capable of it, then they can buy VLF equipment from the manufacturers who sell it to the exploration companies and the geologists. They do not need to spend their years reading forums only to find they will never learn of a way to get a working VLF receiver that they can use for making surveys. They will find there are plenty of books that show proven VLF circuits, and plenty of people who have built and used them successfully all over the world.

In case you don't think there are circuit diagrams to build VLF receivers, there are many online and similar. Here are some circuits to build VLF receivers that use a dipole antenna that use a loop antenna: http://www.home.pon.net/785/equipmen...d_your_own.htm

But who cares if you can find VLF circuits online? Vlf receivers have nothing to do with esoteric technology. VLF receivers have never been esoteric when used for conducting surveys of the ground for subsurface anomalies. What is esoteric is pistols that use secret circuits that make beeps at unknown phenomena, and are kept private, secret, and confidential. This is exactly what distinguishes your pistols from the standard VLF survey equipment that began with the images shown in the Popular Science article.

Do you still want people to believe your pistols are not esoteric?
Do you think I am wrong about what the meaning of esoteric is and everyone else agrees your pistols are not esoteric?
Maybe you should ask Fred if he changed his mind after hearing your new explanation of what esoteric means.
Do you think he agrees your pistols are no longer esoteric?
Do you think anyone believes secret circuits in pistols understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest are not esoteric?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104657)

Hi Geo

Maybe the problem is not that I dont understand you.

Main problem is that such "phenomenon" disappear on regulary basis.

In other words unknown apparently phenomenon, accidentally encountered, not documented and not explained, are not existend, and can be anything.

Presumptions in phenomenon existence are not a proof that they really exist.

If one believe in presumptions, because they need to believe, than this is only one religion more in this world.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104660)

:lol::lol::lol:

Hey Geo, before you feel like answering, let this poor soul complete high school in long range detection first to at least understand the basis of this subject and know for instance that if a system is properly built and tuned, the iron is not an issue...
Jeez... how many more eons will this have to be repeated?


PS. Since we are on this and to prevent this nonsense question to be repeated, Marco in one of the youtube videos answer this very same question
at ...youtube! Guessed right.
And among other things he simply stated the reason why he placed the shovel and how the detector has no problem in picking the ring even if he moves the... yes, the shovel out.

Going to the field now...
See you later.

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104689)

Do you see, Geo? When you wish to explain your experience, others start mockering, so... they don't need infos, don't need circuits. They want circus! :nono:

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104689)

Do you see, Geo? When you wish to explain your experience, others start mockering, so... they don't need infos, don't need circuits. They want circus! :nono:

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104693)

Hi Esteban.
I see, but what i can do. Never mind. Everyone can believe at everything he wants...
I wanted to attach photo of my last LRL, but it is not good time.......:lol:
They don't believe nothing:lol:

Regards:)

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104694)

I told you!
How's your humour today?:lol:

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104691)

Hi Hung.
My PD detects the iron objects because i did not make the adjustment at Omega so to reject the iron....
I want to detect the iron because some treasures are inside metallic boxes from spheres.

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Esteban

Pistols also can use common LF or VLF circuits. These circuits are not secret or esoteric. You need some "combinations" of parts as beeps generator (you know how can build), so nothing is esoteric (the word use in this case is "secret").

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104696)

Very bad! :angry:

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
What are you mean????
As topic (normal MD) or as LRL???

Regards:)

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104698)

. Alonso is even thinking about traveling to his place to investigate this.

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104611)

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104686)

Pistols also can use common LF or VLF circuits. These circuits are not secret or esoteric. You need some "combinations" of parts as beeps generator (you know how can build), so nothing is esoteric (the word used for this case is "secret").

Originally Posted by Astrodetect

ok Guys stop bashing Esteban, he is giving out information about his experiences, thats all. Thanks Esteban for your information.
Esteban has built many pistols that he has explained over and over about how they work. What exactly dont you understand about the principle of operation?. He builds detectors that are influenced by the phenomenon of buried metals, NOT that he actually can measure the phenomenon. Instead of accusing him all the time, why dont you try to build a detector based on scientific facts which can be influenced by buried metals? Or by magnetic fields? Think about IR, Ultrasound, VLF TX and RX, radio detectors ......etc.......They are ALL influenced by some kind of magnetic or electric fields. Ok, esteban does not give schematics, that is his rights, but he is trying to give us many tips about LRL detection.
Thanks

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104715)

Hi Astrodetect,
I make no questions of what are the secret pistol circuits that Esteban does not want people to know about. My question is why he wants people to think these secret methods are not esoteric. Esteban has launched a campaign to convince people that his pistols are not esoteric even when he keeps secrets about them.

The word esoteric is defined to mean "secret, and only for a select few who have a special knowledge". If Esteban claims this is not true of his pistols, then why are they secret? The apperance is Esteban has some motive to make a change to the meaning of esoteric. He leads people to believe his pistols are no different than ordinary VLF survey equipment, but it is not true. They are not the same as ordinary VLF surveying equipment. They are circuits he keeps secret to be used to beep at unknown "phenomena".

I have no interest to know Esteban's secret circuits. :lol: :lol: I like to look at his pictures. I think they are interesting. But I don't like when he makes false representations to change the meaning of words. I don't see why it is wrong to call his pistols esoteric. If they use secret circuits known only by a few, then esoteric is what they are. Doesn't everyone who speaks English know this? What reason does he have to change the meaning of this word? Does he want to confuse people who have difficulty understanding English when they read his posts?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104700)

Don't worry. Hangin' here a few minutes will make you humour return high reading the skepthics posts.:lol:

See this:


:lol::lol:

Originally Posted by Esteban

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104702)

Hi Geo,
I once read where you talked about locating an iron door at some good distance with an early PD experiment when using it as an ordinary metal detector. I also heard some people say the PD can be adjusted to locate iron.

I am wondering now, after you have made more corrections to the circuit, can you set the controls to locate a shovel put on the ground at long distance? Did you ever measure what maximum distance?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Originally Posted by Astrodetect (Post 104711)

Τελικά το δικό σου δουλεύει?

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104725)

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104698)

Hi Geo!
Yes you're right.
You know, there's a guy here in Brazil who lives up northeast (higher lattitudes) and his FG80 behaves the most weird way I have ever seen. Besides only being able to reach good calibration around 800 in the knob (I do here with only 150-200), he constantly picks iron besides gold with his FG80. Alonso is even thinking about traveling to his place to investigate this.
From his car, close to the shore in the beach, he picks up iron in the sand perfectly! I never thought this possible from long range.
He told me he is getting rich selling iron to old parts shops.:lol:

So as you see, you need to fine tune the device according to the latittude you are. Really interesting... We learn about those things everyday.:cool:

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.

Sorry but i think that you play with me!!!..
Ask directly what you want...
When i detected the metal door (2.5...3 m i don't remember good) the PD worked as MD not as LRL.
You know very good, that the PD at fine omega null, detects both ferrous and no ferrous objects. I adjusted it this way....
My PD will detect the shovel at normal distance as a simple MD. But if the Shovel is inside the ground for long time (60...70 years ago), then maybe 10m. I say it because i detected a small buckle (burried before 60...70 years) at 3m about.

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The word "esoteric" can refer to something that is meant only for the initiated. In other words, something that is private or confidential. It does not specifically refer to religion or belief. In this particular instance, referring to the PD as "esoteric" would make sense, and is in no way derogatory. It simply means that the secret of the PD is known only to a small group of people.

Originally Posted by hung (Post 104660)

Going to the field now... See you later.

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104689)

Do you see, Geo? When you wish to explain your experience, others start mockering, so... they don't need infos, don't need circuits. They want circus! :nono:

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104693)

I wanted to attach photo of my last LRL, but it is not good time.......:lol: They don't believe nothing:lol: Regards:)

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104693)

I wanted to attach photo of my last LRL, but it is not good time.......:lol:
They don't believe nothing:lol:

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104750)

Thank you Geo,
You answered most of my question.
From what you say it can find a shovel at 10 m distance if long time buried. I presume this is the same distance you usually see for non-ferrous metals. Correct?

But before it was properly tuned, it found a steel door at 2.5-3 m when working only as a metal detector? This seems like far distance for a normal metal detector, and yours was not tuned well. So it was giving some better distances than a regular metal detector even when not tuned well as regular metal detector. Am I wrong?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104760)

Geo it is a good time for sure.
Please attach your photos!

You cannot expect all people to believe in what you believe.

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104753)

I am wondering if i should have ever used the word "esoteric" :lol: .

Originally Posted by Geo

Maybe you are not wrong, but you forgot the conditions....
The PD worked oposite!!!! maybe from bad null ( i used a concentric coil, not Omega), so i had the led just bright and when i detected the door then the led stopped to bright. I wrote about it!!!!, and yes the led stopped to bright, at a distance of 2.5....3 m.
But it is a big difference between MD and LRL, i think that you know it.

Regards:)

Originally Posted by Esteban

But regarding another post, J_P doesn't have interest... the crude reality??? :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 104611)

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104778)

Yes, I remember.
This is why I am surprised. Maybe my metal detectors do not detect a metal door so far because they have a faraday shield on the coil.

But I was not aware that when working as LRL it can be tuned to find iron the same distance as non-ferrous. I thought it found iron at lesser distances. This is what I wanted to know. I guess you tune it to see only non-ferrous, but if you wanted to find iron, you could make a change in the tuning to use it for 30 m when looking for long time buried iron the size of a shovel.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

The concentration of Earth's magnetic field around Iron is strong, so it is easily detectable with LRL, or Magnetometer at greater distances.

The concentration of Earth's magnetic field around Gold, is weak, and less detectable at greater distances. The "field" of Iron has to be filtered out in order to Discriminate to Gold.

Enough said! I'm not here for argument, or discussion so don't bother. Let a word to those of you intelligent enough to understand simple physics, be sufficient. Dell

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104812)

The PD that Geo uses is not a magnetometer or and MFD tye LRL. It uses an IB metal detector circuit as a base circuit with a ferrite receiver added for long range operation. It does not work by injecting molecular "treasure frequencies" into the circuit as your LRLs do. It is a completely different type of locator that operates with a metal detector coil at around 120KHz. According to people who use these PDs, they can operate in either a metal detector mode or an LRL mode.
J_P

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
I must tell you that my modification PD, don't use ferrite as antenna for the second receiver........:rolleyes:

Regards:)

Originally Posted by J_Player (Post 104815)

:eek:
You are detecting non-ferrous at 30m with only a modified IB metal detector?

Best wishes,
J_P

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104753)

So how did it went ?


Actually many are tired of circus, what the want is serious discussion matter and some evidences of what you are talking about...

I am wondering if i should have ever used the word "esoteric" :lol: .

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104825)

When starting serious discussion, you and others re-start the mockeries. This is the field of your "serious" discussion. So, is better the "esoteric" position. :lol:

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104828)

I have never mocked you. And when i am in a serious discussion, i expect serious answers.
Esoteric is the point where we are right now.It depends on you to make it different, and it should not be difficult.
Unless you prefer to keep it esoteric :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Esteban (Post 104830)

I don't believe... By experience, I know this is not true. :nono:

Originally Posted by g-sani (Post 104838)

Some people will never understand that every person has something to give you even if it is wrong in any other matter or subject.

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
Where i say about 30m distance????

Regards

Originally Posted by WM6 (Post 104840)

You mean "every person has something to give you" except sceptic?

OK, but then you must correct yourself in "some person has something to give you"

Originally Posted by g-sani

Of course I include skeptics into that WM6.
I will never say that I know more than a skeptic.
May be the only thing that I know better than him is that LRLs are working and nothing else.

Originally Posted by g-sani (Post 104838)

So it would be better for everybody including me of course to keep a low profile and be positive listening to others.
Of course we should have our own beliefs and tactics but all of us still learning as time passesby no matter our personal level of knowledge.
Let somebody talk and he will give you more for sure....

Originally Posted by g-sani (Post 104861)

May be the only thing that I know better than him is that LRLs are working and nothing else.

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 104874)

I have been listening for years and i learnt close to nothing.Not because i am deaf, but because LRL enthusiasts, (form their own declarations) don´t want to give away any real information or proofs.
So, what are they doing here?