The true about LRL
 

Sim Fred,podes vir sozinho ou em grupo.
Traz tambem o teu PD.
Eu acho que é altura de pôr no forum toda a verdade sobre o PD,e pensar na produçâo do aparelho em larga escala com autorização do Alonso,e o melhoramento dos circuitos para automatico e se possivel tambem mais distancia.

Até breve

I see.
Is it posted on this forum, at one place? Complete project?

That is very acceptable theory, but only if there is method to mark out ions origin by some specific feature. So to know which ion came from which origin. I am not some expert in ions, but i do know ions are ions...no matter the origin. So.. that would be acceptable approach (ionic detection) only in primitive environments....like sandy deserts, where are far less chances to meet ions from various origins. So...walking through the desert and sudden detection of ion clouds would mean only one thing - something must be in soil (sand) as ions origin. So few chances to miss.
But...than this would mean lrl's with this detection technique are suitable and effective only in simillar environments. If those are effective at all.
But in more complicated environments there are so many ions and ion clouds, floating arround, with various origins..so that kind of locating technique would turn to be totally uselless. Cose you simply can not distinguish between ions and further to recognize their origin.
So... ionic detection technique will always indicate presence of various ions. Everywhere. How to know which one is coming from hoard?

Hi Ivconic,
I believe there are no ion clouds to be detected that will indicate the location of buried metal. I believe in what scientists have measured, not what pseudo-scientists claim without proof. I believe you have correctly concluded that something must be in the soil.

Scientists have measured the ion anomalies in the soil that rise in a column above buried metals. In fact, there is a multimillion dollar industry that surveys the soil at gold mines and copper mines to see where the strong concentrations of metal ions are. They can then pinpoint the ore deposits that lead to the recovery of tons of gold and copper as well as other metals.

This same column of ions ceases to exist when it migrates to within 10-30 cm of the surface. At this point the ions become bound with other salts near the surface of the soil and cease to be ions. In the case of gold, it usually becomes a minute fragment of metallic gold, or possibly a telluride, or other ore compound. But never a free gold ion that becomes airborne. This is the reason it is not possible to detect gold ions in the air. Also, if gold ions did somehow get into the air, the wind would quickly blow them away from the location of the treasure.

The anomaly that can be measured is the ion column, sometimes called halo. What changes in this column of soil is it has higher conductivity than the surrounding soil. It also is a volume of soil that is acting like a battery. The gold ions are mingling with other ions derived from chemical salts in the soil and sulfur complexes, etc. It is literally a ground battery operating in the midst of some varying telluric currents.

In addition, any chemical and electrical activities caused by this halo will influence the earth's magnetic field to a lesser extent. But the most important effect used by most LRL experimenters is the voltage gradient in the air above the halo. This voltage gradient is about 300v/meter of altitude at the surface of the earth. It is driven by the slow leakage of current between the earth and the ionosphere, much like a capacitor has a slow leakage across the dielectric. In this case, the earth is the negative plate, the atmosphere is the dielectric, and the upper ionosphere is the positive plate that collects positive charge from the sun in the form of x-rays mostly. The ionosphere collects enough charge to cause an average total leakage current of 2000 amps across the atmosphere from the earth.

If the earth were a uniform sphere, with all soil having the same conductivity, then we would have a very uniform flow of current on every square centimeter of the earth. But the soil is not uniform. Some soils are more conductive than others, and the current favours the conductive soils. You can expect to find a higher leakage of current from the surface in places where the ground is more conductive, and at the same time you will find the voltage gradient in the air above is much less at this location.

The prominent theory is that the halo area is highly conductive compared to the neighboring soil. Therefore it focuses a lot of atmospheric current leaking directly into the halo cylinder, where it is distributed out the sides of this cylinder into the non-halo soil and mingles with the telluric currents.

Think about the implications: If the soil in the halo anomaly is 10 times more conductive than the surrounding soil, it should have a good amount of current flowing into it from the sky compared to neighboring soil. This is what stimulates magnetic field anomalies... the concentrated atmospheric current flow is inducing a field.
Also, think of the voltage gradient... it is as if someone planted a lightning rod above the buried metal, You will see constant voltage gradients all around until you look the direction of the treasure --- then it drops severely.

This is the basis for long range locating. According to Esteban and others, the signal that can be detected is very small, requiring very sensitive instruments to find it. This anomaly is further complicated by all manner of noise from power lines and radio broadcasts, as well as natural noise from the atmosphere and earth. The only question is what kind of circuit to build to detect these anomalies. According to Esteban, it is not easy, but after a lot of experimenting, he says he found success.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
sure, it exist... it's not a trick of the mind in this case... the fact is known to many hobbists around the world.

Indeed, the problem is that just few , very sensitive MDs (expecially VLF as I know) can detect consistently halo formations around very old buried something... and that's appears as the target is bigger than it is really.

Also, once dug the soil was disturbed and the regular detection depth for target become apparent... and less than before , when item is buried.

As you stated in an old post the effect can be seen due to the fact some targets cannot be detected at a distance as just "targets" and the fact they are detected farther when buried is not only suspect (actually on fresh buried targets the soil mask the target presence, as we all know from air-tests and in-soil test depth comparisions) but I think a proof the effect exist and is real.

I say that both for ferromagnetic and non-ferromagnetic materials it exist... (but never seen on e.g. gold stuff) it happens easy on old iron (but still compact at core) , old bronze, old copper , old silver...

PS: of coruse, about LRL I cannot say if exists something that detects halo or whatever at far distances (several meters away)... so the fact (someone wouldn't agree it's a fact ...but anyway) Halo exist doesn't mean someone made really an LRL device capable of detecting it at far ranges... I dubt that's possible.

Kind regards,
Max

You posted just BS... your data about PD were fake... your description of its behaviour is just a copy and paste of other "gurus" here... :lol:

I think your PD can just find noise.

Kind regards,
Max

Personally... I will not pay even a dollar for that c.r.a.p. he posted... not that I have such , big , fat... bank account... :D

But, even if I have money to waste...I will not waste my money with his stupid claims anyway! :cool:

I'd like too see something working about LRLs... but till now just big, fat claims and no facts. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

You forgot to mention you hide big part of informations about PD... and provided misleading ones... to trick people.

The fact "Max,Fred,Andreas and a few others was not able to make a working LRL PD clone" is due also to your policy of keeping advices and help from people and returning fake informations ...like the 7th missing board ! :lol:

Do you remember what you posted about ? :razz:

Some of us discovered much on PD stuff.. e.g. what was original design of the MD inside it... and way to tune it properly...

But "Max,Fred,Andreas and a few others was not able to make a working LRL PD clone" cause, probably, the whole PD stuff is just a randomic beeper at LRL distances... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

:lol:... better if you ask Esteban about...

Kind regards,
Max

I think that all metal detectorists have experienced this "halo" at some time. For iron, copper, etc., it is easy to explain, but there is no reason why the "halo" should exist for a gold coin, or similar object. Of course, in some cases the object was not actually at the claimed depth at all, but was lodged in the side wall. Then the detectorist does not notice when it falls into the bottom of the hole. This can easily explain what's happening in some cases, especially if you use DD coils, which can often prove troublesome when poinpointing. In one particular case I know that this did not happen to me, because I was on my knees scratching out the soil from a deep hole with my hand, and I uncovered the coin at the bottom. It was a 1797 George III copper coin. This was one of the first early coins to be minted in the new-fangled steam presses of the time.
Without the soil in place, it was not possible to detect this coin at the bottom of the hole.
I have never experienced this "halo" for either silver or gold.

Hi,
sure, gold I never see too. But on silver I can say I saw similar stuff... silver coins that I found that way, over the detection range in-air, were BLACK... cause they corroded in soil.

Now, I'm not totally sure that wasn't with targets on walls of the hole as you described (was many years ago... I simply don't remember now) but the simple fact I detected the small coins over the in-air detection range has a meaning I think.;)

Kind regards,
Max

I believe that we only speak "in order to we speak". Morgan made us a proposal to go to Portugal, so that we see the PD working. Only that it remains, is we gather itself 3… 4 men and we go to meet Morgan. I am allocated to go. Some other??

Regards:):)

Man, this is a fast moving thread :D
Obrigado Morgan,
I wish i could go there, but the problerm is the couple of thousand kilometers that separes us...:rolleyes:
Yes!
And i think some places in South America, if not deserts, are flat and homogenous enought to help this detection to occur at greater distances, but even if it "only" works a reduced distance in more populated areas, it still could be interesting.


Max , let´s keep positive, an to be honest i think there is more to try with it, in my case the conditions in wich experiments were conducted were not the best. What i have found is that it randomly beeps and is sensitive to some effect we couldn´t explain.

Regards,
Fred.

Hi Geo,

This is an excellent idea. There is no need to make arguments and try to guess, when you can see with your own eyes. If I lived in Europe, I would definitely go to see. Portugal is a very nice place, and Morgan can show you the best places to visit after you see his pistol detector and other LRLs finding treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P

Here we found better hours are 8.00 to 17.00 PM, and maybe the best is 16.00 PM.

Lead is "cold" metal, but the most wich creates halo (or field) rapidly is bronze and copper.

For example, iron you can reject easyli because degradate rapidly, so bronze, for me, is the most "sweet"... The only time I detect an iron object was a stove buried at 1 m or more, but beeps was interminent, very intermitent, but from 40 m. But also this stove has copper pipes, but I'm sure detection was by the iron, because, at the end, the iron mask here the "signal" of good conductive metals as copper, silver, gold...

Here occurs exactly as normal MD: in terrain with high concentration of iron, in my country a type of red soil, detection can be mask in gran manner. In salty terrain detection is long, but no precisse, due a kind of "disperssion" occurs.

Yes, you're right, but here with a poor history, few objects in soil in comparisson Europe, etc., is more, but more difficult, to be a coincidence...

No scientis told us. We, many years ago, with our empiric methods and meditions conclude that the phenomenon is complex: electricity, magnetism, chemical combinations, ions, and maybe associated with RF.

Regards

Esteban,what about aluminium? it is a metal wich oxydes rapidly and is reactive.

For the absorptive pistol, no. Maybe for very sensitive electrometer yes.

Interesting : Bronze yes, aluminium no,iron not much, this is a clue!

If the bronze is round as coin or buttons, round form, or circular as buckle, better.

Ok Esteban,
So i suppose a sphere would be even better.
and if a sphere is better, to experiment a sphere with a spike in it.
Problem is if we need to wait a few years between each experiment.