getting rid of the rods

[kim]

i have a mfd long range locator and i like it except for having to use the rods to pick up the signal...is there anyone out there that has a schematic for an electronic device that will pick up the signal...thank you

[hank]

sorry to break the news to you, but an mfd LRL is really nothing more than a dowsing thing. you would find just as much if you kept a hold of the rods and threw the little mfd box away. since what you are doing with an mfd LRL is dowsing the guys in the know will tell you that you need something called an ideomotor response for the whole thing to work. i suppose someone could build a little electric box to tell you when your hand was tipping or not, but it's just as easy to get the response from the L-rods and a lot cheaper. that's why every mfd that is sold comes with a pair of L-rods. hope you didn't pay too much for the thing.

[kim]

what is a idoemotor?

[hank]

best thing I can do is tell you to go read about it.

http://skepdic.com/dowsing.html

there are a bunch of informations on the internet about it.

[Carl]

The whole concept of MFD, and signal lines, is completely bogus, made up by people who wanted to add "technology" to dowsing rods, and sell them for a mighty nice profit.

I call this "wallet mining," and those who practice it are phenomenally more successful than the people they sell to. Read my LRL Q&A for more information.

- Carl

[g-sani]

The dowsers mind is the technology behind the rods.It is many people around that if they were given the right lessons they would be able to dowse succesfully.But you can understand what it could happen then.
If dowsing doesn't exist how can be known to man since ancient time?
It must be some truth out there and my self I well know that but I also understood that they don't want it available for everybody.
It is very close the time that science will accept that dowsing exists and that it works as well.
To come back to our thread now
<getting rid of the rods> is one big step for a dowser.Good ones don't really need them.
Some persons can do it whithout them but they don't want anybody to know.
Why?
All sorts of problems could come up just think about it for a while.
Anyway I can not prove that what I am saying is true but that day will come up shortly for sure and then we will go back remembering what our beliefs were in the past.
Ain't all things for everybody anyway, and that includes me as well.

[Mike(Mont)]

Dell Winders was going to market an electronic receiver several years ago. He says the rods work better due to variable conditions. Vernell Electronics sells a couple different models. They still take lots of practice and are subject to interference. There is no turn-on-and-beep receiver that I know of.

[Max]

Dell Winders was going to market an electronic receiver several years ago. He says the rods work better due to variable conditions. Vernell Electronics sells a couple different models. They still take lots of practice and are subject to interference. There is no turn-on-and-beep receiver that I know of.

Uhm... with hot glue inside ? :lol:

The fact is not a turn-and-go machine it's just cause already found the treasure (in the wallet of customer)! No need to signal anymore! :D

Are just bunch of components... hot glue... plastic and metal: you'll not find anything good with these... apart a big disappointment, possibly depression ?

Anyway... who buy one,for the purpose they're advertised, is a total fool ... so, expecially cause here people tell all the time that these things don't work, can't work... so you wanna buy anyway !?
OK... then say goodbye to your money and treasure dreams and face up reality! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[g-sani]

Here is somebody that uses a receiver to get the signal instead of rods.
You can see the receiver on the left handside of the page.

http://www.thortech.org/en/

Mind you sometimes their webpage doesn't open at all.If you are lucky sometime you will go further and be able to open the page under the heading <Instruments> on the left again.There they explain how their Rx works and they are saying that you will be able to go straight on target.
They give specs for both Tx and Rx.
Once we went out treasure hunting with somebody that had a similar device over here in Greece.He told me that it was a cheaper patent of the equipment that thotech make.I was surprised to see that it was working and that was the first time in my life that we found something using an LRL.

[Qiaozhi]

The dowsers mind is the technology behind the rods.
In a way, you are quite correct. The rods do absolutely nothing, except detect gravity. The whole "technology" (as you put it) is going on in the mind of the dowser. The ideomotor effect is a "trick of the mind". It's a psychological phenomenon whereby the dowser makes unconscious movements of the hand, and fools the conscious mind into believing there is a relationship between the twitching rod and buried treasure. Many empty holes can be found by this method.

If dowsing doesn't exist how can be known to man since ancient time?
The same reasons why reading palms or tea leaves or animal entrails have fooled people for centuries into believing there is a relationship between these activities and real life, when there is none.

Here is somebody that uses a receiver to get the signal instead of rods.
You can see the receiver on the left handside of the page.

http://www.thortech.org/en/

Mind you sometimes their webpage doesn't open at all.If you are lucky sometime you will go further and be able to open the page under the heading <Instruments> on the left again.There they explain how their Rx works and they are saying that you will be able to go straight on target.
They give specs for both Tx and Rx.
Once we went out treasure hunting with somebody that had a similar device over here in Greece.He told me that it was a cheaper patent of the equipment that thotech make.I was surprised to see that it was working and that was the first time in my life that we found something using an LRL.
This is another attempt to separate the unwary from the contents of their wallets. If you want to waste time reading this nonsense, then try this link -> http://www.thortech.org/en/treasure-instruments.html
They are not even capable of creating a simple html link to the correct webpage. All of their links contain an extra "thortech" in the path. Simply remove it, and you can gain access.

[Mike(Mont)]

An L-rod is a wave guide for your thought energy. More than that it aligns itself with the lines of force. Yes, there is a balance that the user feels when the rod aligns. Whether this is due completely to outside forces (force field), or the user senses the balance and reacts subconsciously, or a combination of the two (most likely) is up for conjecture. But for a non-dowser to state categorically that there is no effect is not accurate. I guess if they say it enough to themself they will believe it.

[Mike(Mont)]

It's common sense that the nervous system picks up a much wider range of frequencies than the five senses. The mind has been programmed to ignore these. The hardest part of dowsing is to still the mind of these programs that limit your awareness. I've been reading a bit about emotions. These are force fields that are not easy to detect scientifically. GSR units can help (galvanic skin response measures skin resistance which is nearly instantaneous).

[Mike(Mont)]

I'm not saying this to belittle anyone, but just hook yourself up to a GSR, pick up an L-rod, and watch the thing skyrocket from your stress level. I learned to dowse with the help of a GSR hooked up to a black box. I've mentioned this many times and I just wonder if anyone here has ever used one for dowsing. I bought a small unit a while back. It has a sensor that straps to the palm of your hand and several LED's and levels. I have found the sensors hard to get just right. Cold or dry hands can be a problem. Some people use a heated glove. There are many different type of stress feedback units available. I think something like this should be mandatory equipment for anyone who is trying to learn. It don't take no Miss Cleo to see some people here need one BADLY. It can't hurt to lower your bloodpressure.

[Fred]

...Many empty holes can be found by this method...
Not quite, and that´s the problem: actualy what you find is full holes, you have to empty them by yourself ! :lol:

[Max]

I'm not saying this to belittle anyone, but just hook yourself up to a GSR, pick up an L-rod, and watch the thing skyrocket from your stress level. I learned to dowse with the help of a GSR hooked up to a black box. I've mentioned this many times and I just wonder if anyone here has ever used one for dowsing. I bought a small unit a while back. It has a sensor that straps to the palm of your hand and several LED's and levels. I have found the sensors hard to get just right. Cold or dry hands can be a problem. Some people use a heated glove. There are many different type of stress feedback units available. I think something like this should be mandatory equipment for anyone who is trying to learn. It don't take no Miss Cleo to see some people here need one BADLY. It can't hurt to lower your bloodpressure.

"Some people use a heated glove."

:lol:

I see... so... at the end, you're disclosing all your secrets here!?

Kinda of outing! :D

What about your old baseball glove ??? Don't know why...but I'm sure you love it! :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

Not quite, and that´s the problem: actualy what you find is full holes, you have to empty them by yourself ! :lol:
:lol: :lol: That's funny!
Another oxymoron? But - which one is it - an empty hole, or a full hole?
I guess it's the "full hole", as this is a contradiction in terms.
The "empty hole" is already empty, by definition. No need for the adjective.
:lol: :lol:

[g-sani]

I am really really happy that Mike(Mont) took over explaining things.
I am sure he knows what he is talking about since I compare things whith what I know myself up to now.The thing whith such issues is to be able to give others to understand and myself I am not that good yet as Mike(Mont) is.
He said that:

......the nervous system picks up a much wider range of frequencies than the five senses. The mind has been programmed to ignore these. The hardest part of dowsing is to still the mind of these programs that limit your awareness. .......

and he also wrote that:

.......there is a balance that the user feels when the rod aligns. Whether this is due completely to outside forces (force field), or the user senses the balance and reacts subconsciously, or a combination of the two (most likely) is up for conjecture. But for a non-dowser to state categorically that there is no effect is not accurate. I guess if they say it enough to themself they will believe it.

All these alone can give answers to what holds most people back from truth and from the way that treasure hunting should be approached.
I admit myself that I have seen holes in many places but I also admit that in such places most of the times if not always the valueables were left behind for dowsers to pick up.
It happened many times and still happening.I don't know if it is the ideomotor efect or whatever anybody wants to call it but I know very well that this way we came up whith finds that were impossible to be made whith any sophisticated or top of the range detector no matter the price tag.

Apart from all that Dowsing is not just using rods to find something and it took me quite some time for myself to understand.
This is only a very small practice of what can be done.

[Fred]

To accept the ideomotor effect as part of the detection process is a genius idea.This way the "principle" of detection can be questionned again (and again) on new basis, so a real explaination (?) will never show up.
Soon someone will claim that gravity is absolutely necessary too ,but in a secret way :razz:.

****************
-If it takes 12 minutes to dig a hole, how long would it take to dig half hole?

(This question was part of a Police academy exam.) ;)

[Mike(Mont)]

http://www.iproducts.ws/thoughtstream.htm

If you think about it, treasure hunting and dowsing are near opposites. You tend to get excited with the thought of striking it rich. It's hard to relax when you are at a suspected treasure site. If you are like me, you carry loads of gear at a fast pace. It takes twenty minutes to calm down even without any thoughts of treasure.

The ThoughtStream is not a dowsing device. It is a device to help you control your emotions/stress.

[Max]

To accept the ideomotor effect as part of the detection process is a genius idea.This way the "principle" of detection can be questionned again (and again) on new basis, so a real explaination (?) will never show up.
Soon someone will claim that gravity is absolutely necessary too ,but in a secret way :razz:.

****************
-If it takes 12 minutes to dig a hole, how long would it take to dig half hole?

(This question was part of a Police academy exam.) ;)

The cubic root of 12 ? :lol:

So... about 2 minutes and 20 seconds! :rolleyes:

Are you a policeman!?:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

I am really really happy that Mike(Mont) took over explaining things.
I am sure he knows what he is talking about .....
Stating that something is "common sense", or "obvious", are ridiculous statements when applied to dowsing. In fact, it is "common sense" that dowsing is a trick of the mind, and "obvious" that Mike (Mont) doesn't know what he's talking about. Get the point?


......the nervous system picks up a much wider range of frequencies than the five senses. The mind has been programmed to ignore these. The hardest part of dowsing is to still the mind of these programs that limit your awareness. .......
You are wrong again. There are only 5 senses, despite what you would like to believe.

.......there is a balance that the user feels when the rod aligns. Whether this is due completely to outside forces (force field), or the user senses the balance and reacts subconsciously, or a combination of the two (most likely) is up for conjecture.
It is neither. The twitching of the rod is all in the mind. There is no "outside force" controlling the rod, and no signal line.

All these alone can give answers to what holds most people back from truth and from the way that treasure hunting should be approached.
Dream on .....

[J_Player]

To accept the ideomotor effect as part of the detection process is a genius idea.This way the "principle" of detection can be questionned again (and again) on new basis, so a real explaination (?) will never show up. Hmmmm... Now, this brings up some embarrassing questions...

If all this ideamotor stuff is true, then it must also be true for people who hold the single rods with the coil at the end. Yup, if L-rods work by ideamtor, then metal detectorists must also be subject to the ideamotor principle. Sure, the people with metal detectors sometimes dig empty holes, but this is obviously caused by the detectorist using his thought energy in an improper way so he can't feel the outside forces. But when he feels the balance, then the rod of the metal detector points in the direction of the target. Well, ok... I guess he swings it back and forth, but look at the direction he is walking. Isn't it in the direction of the treasures? Of course it is. If it wasn't, then how would he ever find treasure? It now becomes perfectly clear. The ideamotor principle finds all treasure. Metal detectors and electronic LRLs only pinpoint the target so we don't walk past it.

Want proof? Look here at all the treasure these detectorists found: http://www.findmall.com/list.php?26
You see? These detectorists are finding almost as much treasure as L-rod users. And to think... they all thought it was the detector finding the treasure!

Now detectorists as well as L-rod users can benefit from using a GSR meter to help them learn to align their rods and shafts with the lines of force from the signal line until they feel the balance.

Soon someone will claim that gravity is absolutely necessary too ,but in a secret way :razz:. The secret revealed why gravity is necessary:
Gravity is necessary for L-rods as well as for metal detectors. Otherwise it would be too hard to stay attached to the ground while looking for the treasure. You would keep blowing away from where you wanted to walk.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

hi Max,
The cubic root of 12 ? :lol:
So... about 2 minutes and 20 seconds! :rolleyes:
Hi Max ,
Don´t forget, that was for policemen,not rocket scientists! :D
The answer was : "there is no such thing as half a hole"....haha . :rolleyes:

Are you a policeman!?:D
No! Just electronics... :)
Regards,
Fred.

[Fred]

The ideamotor principle finds all treasure. Metal detectors and electronic LRLs only pinpoint the target so we don't walk past it.
:lol:
...You would keep blowing away from where you wanted to walk.Best wishes,J_P
Or, everyone holding a rod would be sucked by "the Force" to the place where the treasure is , so there would be enormous piles of people trying to dig , but each time their showels hit the ground they would be ejected in space...

[Mike(Mont)]

I have stated there is a force field that the rod reacts to. Like when you rub a balloon on your hair and syyrofoam pieces will fly through the air to attach to it. The rod reacts strongest to the edge of the target's field. This is where the polarity changes. It's called the zero point or node and there is a vortex of energy there. I will agree the force field is usually not strong enough to move the rod like it does with styrofoam, but there is a noticalbe force that the dowser can feel. A rod with sticky bearings is going to take more energy or torque to move it and I can see why some failed dowsers would like to believe it is only in their imagination. It may be for them. In fact it is very easy to let your imaginatino fool you into thinking there is a target when there really is none. This is one reason I use my skin as a sensor. A beginner will struggle to hold the rod level and not even realize it is respondind to the target, they hold it back.

[Mike(Mont)]

When the rod moves through the earth's magnetic field, you get magnetic induction. The hydrogen protons in water molecules is what makes it so magnetic. Our body is 80% water.

[g-sani]

I agree whith you my friend Qiaozhi that there are only 5 senses but this is true only for people that like to believe that and this includes you perhaps.
Of course I don't blame anybody believing such a thing since this is what they told us at the time we were borned.And now comes the question.
Anything they told us as we grew up is true or certain things appeared different on the way? Hhhhmmmmmm..........:nono:
Don't forget that some time ago people believed that earth was something like a big circular baking pan.As time went by we discovered different and everybody agreed to this one.
My opinion is that we must always be open to new thoughts and perspectives and for me this is the right thing to do if we want to go forward in a better world.
And from my personal experience since I have seen dowsers working is that these persons are a lot more open minded than the rest.
This probably plus their strong will was the reason that helped them exercising dowsing, coming up whith results that verified the concept from the beggining.Just think the following as scientists and zoologists did.
Is an elephant a dowser since he can find water in the desert by just digging in certain places into the sand using his nose?All he does is walks to the place and digs.How can he do it?Scientists can't answer yet.
Or is an elephant more clever than a man?
What is happening then?
Maybe was in our nature to dowse as well and because needs changed as time went by we forgot all about.
To tell you the truth no I don't care what scientists and their experiments say when I can see it whith my own eyes happening.

[Fred]

I have stated there is a force field that the rod reacts to. Like when you rub a balloon on your hair and syyrofoam pieces will fly through the air to attach to it.
Mike,
The problem is that the styrofoam effect is scientifically explained ,and as any scientifical explanation it must be proven.Not the "rods effect".


... is an elephant more clever than a man?.
-Sure! most elephants are more clever than some men..
... To tell you the truth no I don't care what scientists and their experiments say when I can see it whith my own eyes happening.
The point is: what do you really see?
G-sani,i can agree with many things you say here.But if there is unknown phenomenons i wonder why we can´t explain them in a rational way.You can answer that is is because of our limited knowledge,but i doubt it is the only reason.So many years and so many tests with dowsers and NEVER a real recorded proof ?!! :shocked:
Man if i knew it works the first thing i would make is prove it to the world.
Regards,
Fred.

[Dell Winders]

"What has already been done, can be done". "The door to knowledge & understanding is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind". Dell

g-sani, Mike, is a very knowledgeable person, with many years of field experience with meta-physical Dowsing, and the Physics employed with the use of Long Range Locators. It would serve the Skeptics well to heed, and exercise what he has to say.

Unfortunately, there are no scientist here. Only pretenders hiding behind fictitious names, deception, and gimmicks, participating on a critic sponsored website intended for the purpose of mocking,ridicule, and expressing closed minded BELIEFS (not truth, or facts) promoted through egotistical ignorance, and arrogance.

This so called Skeptic forum, is a sad commentary to true open minded science.

I wish you the best. Dell

[Max]

"What has already been done, can be done". "The door to knowledge & understanding is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind". Dell

g-sani, Mike, is a very knowledgeable person, with many years of field experience with meta-physical Dowsing, and the Physics employed with the use of Long Range Locators. It would serve the Skeptics well to heed, and exercise what he has to say.

Unfortunately, there are no scientist here. Only pretenders hiding behind fictitious names, deception, and gimmicks, participating on a critic sponsored website intended for the purpose of mocking,ridicule, and expressing closed minded BELIEFS (not truth, or facts) promoted through egotistical ignorance, and arrogance.

This so called Skeptic forum, is a sad commentary to true open minded science.

I wish you the best. Dell

Uhm... seems upset.

I think he probably missed the last discount sale of paint rollers there! :D

[Qiaozhi]

The rod reacts strongest to the edge of the target's field. This is where the polarity changes. It's called the zero point or node and there is a vortex of energy there. I will agree the force field is usually not strong enough to move the rod like it does with styrofoam, but there is a noticalbe force that the dowser can feel. A rod with sticky bearings is going to take more energy or torque to move it and I can see why some failed dowsers would like to believe it is only in their imagination.
This is just the usual pseudoscientific claptrap that we've heard many times from Dell and others. Repeating it again will not make it come true.

When the rod moves through the earth's magnetic field, you get magnetic induction. The hydrogen protons in water molecules is what makes it so magnetic. Our body is 80% water.
Where do you get this nonsense from?

My opinion is that we must always be open to new thoughts and perspectives and for me this is the right thing to do if we want to go forward in a better world.
I can agree with you on that point. But the idea of dowsing is not new, and has been disproved many times in the past. Don't forget that there is a $1M prize for any one who can the pass the dowsing test. Randi's money is still unclaimed. :razz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation

Mike, is a very knowledgeable person, with many years of field experience with meta-physical Dowsing, and the Physics employed with the use of Long Range Locators. It would serve the Skeptics well to heed, and exercise what he has to say.
Physics and dowsing are only related by gravity. Dowsing is a psychologically-based phenomenon.

Unfortunately, there are no scientist here.

Wrong again. :lol:

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK."

[hung]

My opinion is that we must always be open to new thoughts and perspectives and for me this is the right thing to do if we want to go forward in a better world.


Hey Gsani, don't expect such a thing from 'iron brains' such as Qiaozhi, Max, Carl, etc. They are doomed to remain in the twilight zone...:lol:

Sorry, just hung (no pun intended) around here for a minute but couldn't resist posting this...
Let's get back to work. Much treasure yet to be found.:thumb:

[Max]

Hey Gsani, don't expect such a thing from 'iron brains' such as Qiaozhi, Max, Carl, etc. They are doomed to remain in the twilight zone...:lol:

Sorry, just hung (no pun intended) around here for a minute but couldn't resist posting this...
Let's get back to work. Much treasure yet to be found.:thumb:


"Much treasure yet to be found." :rolleyes:

Uhm... maybe is some hidden reference to wallet mining? :lol:

Oh yeah... pocket of fools are always full of money to "detect"! :D

That's why someone subscribe for one candidate or another... ops...

Kind regards,
Max

[Mike(Mont)]

Our five senses are refined to work in a narrow band of frequencies. The human nervous system is the most advanced thing in the known universe. It works like an antenna. Sensitive people have learned to expand the range of the senses. Emotions run at much higher frequencies yet most people when they walk into a room can sense if there has been an arguement, just for an example.

The balloon and styrofoam example doesn't need a scientist to "prove it", nor do the rods in the hands of an experienced person.

[Fred]

"What has already been done, can be done". "The door to knowledge & understanding is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind". Dell

Dell,
You alway says the same stuff, but you explain nothing....I don´t understand:if you are interested in making people believe that this stuff works, you should explain it in an intelligent way...If you are not interested, then i don´t know what you are doing here...:rolleyes:
Anyway in the present situation you are not being very productive...

Our five senses are refined to work in a narrow band of frequencies. The human nervous system is the most advanced thing in the known universe. It works like an antenna..
CQ CQ DX....no answer :frown: Wrong frequency?
The balloon and styrofoam example doesn't need a scientist to "prove it", nor do the rods in the hands of an experienced person.
Yes it does! when this effect has been discovered, it has been studied and scientifically explained.Then we could move along.

[Rudy]

Been gone for a while, but I see that nothing has changed.

By the way Dell, sorry I'm a few days late.
Happy Birthday.

[Qiaozhi]

Hey Gsani, don't expect such a thing from 'iron brains' such as Qiaozhi, Max, Carl, etc. They are doomed to remain in the twilight zone...:lol:
The Twilight Zone is often described as being "a mixture of self-contained fantasy, science fiction, or horror".
Hmmm.... sounds like either a dowsing or LRL experience to me. :razz:

[Mike(Mont)]

I guess you are talking about the skeptics.

[g-sani]

Good dowsers don't need to prove themselves to anybody since they work much better going dowsing alone.
This thing drives skeptics mad and some of them that really tried to see if dowsing is real know very well what the truth is but even now they don't admit it.But who cares anymore?
What we say here might be usefull only for few people to find their way easier and this will be good enough.It reminds me myself when I was in a state between trying to figure the truth in the words of others.
It felt really relaxing when I finally experienced dowsing in person.May be I was lucky but I tried a lot to see the truth behind it.

[J_Player]

Good dowsers can go dowsing alone, find treasures alone, count up all their money alone and laugh at the skeptics alone. This will work very well until the alarm clock wakes them up and they realize it's time to get ready to go to work already. :oh:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

"What has already been done, can be done". "The door to knowledge & understanding is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind". Dell

g-sani, Mike, is a very knowledgeable person, with many years of field experience with meta-physical Dowsing, and the Physics employed with the use of Long Range Locators. It would serve the Skeptics well to heed, and exercise what he has to say.

Unfortunately, there are no scientist here. Only pretenders hiding behind fictitious names, deception, and gimmicks, participating on a critic sponsored website intended for the purpose of mocking,ridicule, and expressing closed minded BELIEFS (not truth, or facts) promoted through egotistical ignorance, and arrogance.

This so called Skeptic forum, is a sad commentary to true open minded science.

I wish you the best. Dell

Same old crap. Dell, take a break from the paint roller business and spend some time in the real world.

If what has been done, can be done --why can't you explain it? You have been pressured for decades to explain what has been done, and not one shred of evidence has come from you; only your tired old excuses and rhetoric. Yawn...... how boring.

The truth is, Gravity is all you have working on your paint rollers, and nothing more.

[Dell Winders]

Been gone for a while, but I see that nothing has changed.

By the way Dell, sorry I'm a few days late.
Happy Birthday.


Rudy, that's mighty kind of you, and appreciated. Thank you!

I am very thankful to have been given another year of life. Hopefully, there will be many more birthday years to celebrate for everyone. Dell

[Fred]

Same old crap. Dell, take a break from the paint roller business and spend some time in the real world.

If what has been done, can be done --why can't you explain it? You have been pressured for decades to explain what has been done, and not one shred of evidence has come from you; only your tired old excuses and rhetoric. Yawn...... how boring.

The truth is, Gravity is all you have working on your paint rollers, and nothing more.
We cant even know WHAT has been done...

[Max]

We cant even know WHAT has been done...

Whatever has been done... now is done!

So I think people will not have their money back.... :lol:

[Theseus]

Whatever has been done... now is done!

So I think people will not have their money back.... :lol:

The ruse (SCAM) must be maintained at all costs. Otherwise there would be some BIG refunds to be made.

[Dell Winders]

Same old crap. Dell, take a break from the paint roller business and spend some time in the real world.

If what has been done, can be done --why can't you explain it? You have been pressured for decades to explain what has been done, and not one shred of evidence has come from you; only your tired old excuses and rhetoric. Yawn...... how boring.

The truth is, Gravity is all you have working on your paint rollers, and nothing more.
Careful, you are exposing your ignorance. You seem to have difficulty overcoming your fixed "beliefs" based on assumption and presumption, rather than accepting the truth.

I admit, the Fat, egocentric, pompous looking avatar I'm using can be very boring to look at. but it serves both as a reminder, and a deterrent.

Don't fret about my posts, Sam. Your friend Carl Morland, is solely responsible for the content of this website, so if you have a complaint about what I post, please submit it to the webmaster, to take what ever action he deems appropriate.

Glad to see you have cut back on the ranting. Good for you. Keep up the progress and you may be on your way to rational thinking and behavior. You have my best wishes. Dell

[Theseus]

Careful, you are exposing your ignorance. You seem to have difficulty overcoming your fixed "beliefs" based on assumption and presumption, rather than accepting the truth.

I admit, the Fat, egocentric, pompous looking avatar I'm using can be very boring to look at. but it serves both as a reminder, and a deterrent.

Don't fret about my posts, Sam. Your friend Carl Morland, is solely responsible for the content of this website, so if you have a complaint about what I post, please submit it to the webmaster, to take what ever action he deems appropriate.

Glad to see you have cut back on the ranting. Good for you. Keep up the progress and you may be on your way to rational thinking and behavior. You have my best wishes. Dell

I thought the avatar was you in your younger days. I think everyone else looking at it thinks the same thing. Reminder???? Deterrent??? Hmmm... I think you've slipped a cog. Are you still taking your meds?

Exposing ignorance? You are the one exposing your ignorance. You and Mike Healey are the only ones I know here that are good at exposing how stupid you are. You can refuse to accept rational science and physics all you want, but that won't make them go away, and it certainly doesn't validate your pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo scam LRL crap. Paint roller handles, used as dowsing rods will still only do one thing --indicate Gravity.

Just because you can con some poor sap into giving you hundreds of dollars for a paint roller handle, in no way negates the fact that you are running a scam business. Look it up..... it's still a criminal offense and it's called Fraud through Willful Deception.

[Mike(Mont)]

Here's my take on "rational science": If it works, use it. What works for one person does not necessarily work for another. You got a problem with that? I've gone waaay out of my way to try and help poor souls like you to live a happy life. Your obsession with trying to save the world from honest, hard working people who love dowsing/locating is beyond belief. :nono: Dell is as honest as they get. He doesn't use a hundred plus alias' or identitfy theft (posting using my name and email address and several others like someone here). You are shameless.

[Max]

Here's my take on "rational science": If it works, use it. What works for one person does not necessarily work for another. You got a problem with that? I've gone waaay out of my way to try and help poor souls like you to live a happy life. Your obsession with trying to save the world from honest, hard working people who love dowsing/locating is beyond belief. :nono: Dell is as honest as they get. He doesn't use a hundred plus alias' or identitfy theft (posting using my name and email address and several others like someone here). You are shameless.

"If it works, use it."

I agree with that of above...

problem is that dowsing doesn't work, or better, that's much about trivial situations... you search for water and so dig holes and find that water...
but in that cases it's about obvious thing: if you dig 50meters up or down that point you'll find water too... same if you'll dig at 100meters etc
Just matter of how deep must be the well...

So, it's like searching for gold in a jewelry shop ! :lol: It's obvious you'll find some... not a big deal really!

What about dowsers that wanna find water in the Sahara , uh ? :lol:

Will he find it under the dunes ??? :D

Actually THERE IS water: in Lybia and other countries there's enormous waterplane under the desert!

But I never heard of someone, dowser that found water that way in the Sahara! :D

So... dowsing... it's just a matter of beliving that the person who dowse for something really could find that something using some subconscious reation... where, actually, the water finds and similar stuff is more easy explained considering that e.g. in europe and most part of USA there's lot of water underground ! Anyone can spot a point and use a drill to confirm his guess!
In that way it works... but not as claimed by dowsers!

Experiment were made using hidden pipes and waterflows and demonstrated that in double blind tests no dowser can really dowse for that... and that "normal", not-dowsing, people have exactly the same hit ratio of pretender dowsers! :cool:

So, who told you it "WORKS" ?

It doesn't work, so I don't use it.

I put the batteries in my MD, switch it on and find the good stuff.

All the rest are empty words and small talks.

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

Here's my take on "rational science": If it works, use it. What works for one person does not necessarily work for another. You got a problem with that? I've gone waaay out of my way to try and help poor souls like you to live a happy life. Your obsession with trying to save the world from honest, hard working people who love dowsing/locating is beyond belief. :nono: Dell is as honest as they get. He doesn't use a hundred plus alias' or identitfy theft (posting using my name and email address and several others like someone here). You are shameless.

You are way over-stepping your assumed knowledge of who you think you are talking to.

Unless you have proof positive to back up your accusations, I think it would be in your best interests to knock it off. :nono:

If you do have proof to back up your accusations, I suggest you post it right here so we can all see what you are talking about.

Incidentally, it is impossible to consider how you could use the name Dell Winders and "honest" in the same sentence. Anyone who has devoted their entire life to bilking people out of their money (Wallet-Mining), through Willful Deception, could hardly be called honest.

[Dell Winders]

Incidentally, it is impossible to consider how you could use the name Dell Winders and "honest" in the same sentence. Anyone who has devoted their entire life to bilking people out of their money (Wallet-Mining), through Willful Deception, could hardly be called honest.

Then perhaps you should stop hiding behind aliases, use your own name, cease your willful deception, back up your false allegations with proof, and stop spreading venemous lies.

JELAD, Just Eliminate Lies About Dell

[Theseus]

Then perhaps you should stop hiding behind aliases, use your own name, cease your willful deception, back up your false allegations with proof, and stop spreading venemous lies.

JELAD, Just Eliminate Lies About Dell

Aliases? I have no idea what you are talking about. All forums and newsgroups advise new members to pick a Username and Password. Only a very few individuals actually choose to use their given names. That remains the choice you make when you sign up. In general, it is not advised to do so. As is evidenced by nearly all the members here; they clearly understand the concept and the protocol. It appears YOU (Dell Winders) are the one that is out of step.

Please try to elevate yourself from the dark ages, come out of your sheltered life on the Internet and actually investigate some other forums and information nets. Educate yourself before you run off at the mouth about something you know nearly zero about.

Anything I've said about your glorified paint rollers has been nothing but the truth. Anything I've said about you being an established scam artist and Wallet Miner is not only the truth, but can be verified totally by merely visiting your website where you advertise your LRL scam items, knowing full well what you are doing constitutes Fraud through Willful Deception.

Clean up your own act, before you go bashing those who have done nothing more than expose you and your practices for what they really are.

[Theseus]

The whole concept of MFD, and signal lines, is completely bogus, made up by people who wanted to add "technology" to dowsing rods, and sell them for a mighty nice profit.

I call this "wallet mining," and those who practice it are phenomenally more successful than the people they sell to. Read my LRL Q&A for more information.

- Carl

Carl and Hank are absolutely correct. "If" your dowsing rods react at all, it will be as a result of an ideomotor response, and NOTHING more. Whether or not you have an MFD box of do-nothing electronics nearby is of NO consequence and adds NOTHING to the equation.

Scam artists like Dell Winders, and others, would like to fool you into thinking that using an MFD gadget is somehow NOT dowsing. Nothing could be further from the truth, and these scam artists know that fact. Although they don't want YOU to learn that fact.

Since dowsing "with" an MFD or "without" an MFD is equivalent, you have to ask yourself who is getting rich here ---when you consider that dowsing has been proven many times over to produce the same results as "guessing".

And, don't forget, when dowsing, if you dig enough holes, eventually you may find something that could be similar to what you originally were dowsing for. Just keep in mind, you would have the same results if you randomly dig holes or if you dowse for likely locations.

[Dell Winders]

My Web pages are truthful and honest. My products have always been accompanied by a limited warranty meeting the same, or better standards as the metal detector industry, and has always been honored.

If you are going to make allegations of dishonesty and fraud, you had better come up with legal evidence to substantiate your claims, or be prepared to accept the title of chronic liar, and perpetrator of malicious and untruthful slander intended to defame the good name and honest reputation of Dell Winders.

It is understandable why you are afraid to use your real name in your attacks when authorities will know you are back to your old vindictive con tricks and illegal internet activities.

We are all waiting for you to back up your allegations against me with factual evidence of me defrauding or deceiving my customers in any way? Let's see it! Put up, or shut up. Dell

[Theseus]

My Web pages are truthful and honest. My products have always been accompanied by a limited warranty meeting the same, or better standards as the metal detector industry, and has always been honored.

If you are going to make allegations of dishonesty and fraud, you had better come up with legal evidence to substantiate your claims, or be prepared to accept the title of chronic liar, and perpetrator of malicious and untruthful slander intended to defame the good name and honest reputation of Dell Winders.

It is understandable why you are afraid to use your real name in your attacks when authorities will know you are back to your old vindictive con tricks and illegal internet activities.

We are all waiting for you to back up your allegations against me with factual evidence of me defrauding or deceiving my customers in any way? Let's see it! Put up, or shut up. Dell

No Problem!

Here is a quote from your own pages:

"The instrument and operator are measuring the differential between the magnetic field surrounding the earth and the fields created by the target metals, both ferrous and non-ferrous as well as other chemical elements."

That is total and complete BS! You cannot provide a shred of evidence to back up that pseudo-scientific statement. Yet, there are some who will be taken in by those lies, and fall for your scam marketing scheme.

If you were called into a court of law, and asked to demonstrate (prove) your statements, you could not do it.

That is only one example. If I had the time I would point out hundreds more. If you want more examples, just read over the pages on your own site.

Wallet-Mining through Willful Deception is Fraud, and it will never be anything else, no matter how well you would like to sugar-coat it.

Now... it is your turn to put up or shut up! Prove the differential you lied about exists and show us how to measure it WITHOUT a dowsing rod.

You Can't Do It.

[Mike(Mont)]

Something Al Rossmiller taught me is that dowsing and the dowsing instruments should be treated as they are sacred. If you keep that attitude it can help your sensitivity.

[Dell Winders]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=77732#post77732)
My Web pages are truthful and honest. My products have always been accompanied by a limited warranty meeting the same, or better standards as the metal detector industry, and has always been honored.

If you are going to make allegations of dishonesty and fraud, you had better come up with legal evidence to substantiate your claims, or be prepared to accept the title of chronic liar, and perpetrator of malicious and untruthful slander intended to defame the good name and honest reputation of Dell Winders.

It is understandable why you are afraid to use your real name in your attacks when authorities will know you are back to your old vindictive con tricks and illegal internet activities.

We are all waiting for you to back up your allegations against me with factual evidence of me defrauding or deceiving my customers in any way? Let's see it! Put up, or shut up. Dell
No Problem!

Here is a quote from your own pages:

"The instrument and operator are measuring the differential between the magnetic field surrounding the earth and the fields created by the target metals, both ferrous and non-ferrous as well as other chemical elements."

That is total and complete BS! You cannot provide a shred of evidence to back up that pseudo-scientific statement. Yet, there are some who will be taken in by those lies, and fall for your scam marketing scheme.

If you were called into a court of law, and asked to demonstrate (prove) your statements, you could not do it.

That is only one example. If I had the time I would point out hundreds more. If you want more examples, just read over the pages on your own site.

Wallet-Mining through Willful Deception is Fraud, and it will never be anything else, no matter how well you would like to sugar-coat it.

Now... it is your turn to put up or shut up! Prove the differential you lied about exists and show us how to measure it WITHOUT a dowsing rod.

You Can't Do It.

The pretender is grasping at imaginary straws.
Of course, it can be proven, or I would not have said it.

Now, produce one of my customers who purchased
a product from me on the basis of that statement?

We are still waiting for you to back up your allegations against me with factual evidence of me defrauding or deceiving my customers in any way?

Take me to court with your conjured evidence of dishonesty and fraud. Let's see it! Put up, or shut up. Dell

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING, IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, PREJUDICED, VINDICTIVE, OR IRRATIONAL MINDSET".

[Theseus]

We are still waiting for you to back up your allegations against me with factual evidence of me defrauding or deceiving my customers in any way?


And we are still waiting for you to explain:

"The instrument and operator are measuring the differential between the magnetic field surrounding the earth and the fields created by the target metals, both ferrous and non-ferrous as well as other chemical elements."

Since you can't, then that statement is false and constitutes Fraud. When people read that statement (and believe it to be true), then that is Fraud through Willful Deception --- plain and simple.

It's not my fault that a Class Action suit has not been brought up against you yet.

I can assure you, if I had bought one of your scam MFD/Dowsing contraptions, you and I would have met in court a LONG time ago. Then you could have tried to convince a judge the above statement was true. I doubt very much a judge would see it as anything but FRAUD, and you would be paying the court costs as well as a fine and be forced to shut down your scam business.

[J_Player]

Of course, it can be proven, or I would not have said it.

Now, produce one of my customers who purchased
a product from me on the basis of that statement?

We are still waiting for you to back up your allegations against me with factual evidence of me defrauding or deceiving my customers in any way?Ummm... now, wait a minute Dell. You have ignored the challenge Theseus made, and called him names, then tried to create a ruse to make it appear "we" are waiting for Theseus to prove something.

I have a question: Who does "we" include when you say "We are still waiting for you to back up your allegations against me..."?
Does "we" include only Dell Winders?

It appears to me Theseus's allegations are backed up by the words you published on your web page. It also appears to me that there are many more examples of your pseudo-scientific statements on your web pages that you cannot back up, just as Theseus says. So what is to prove? The evidence is spread throughout the web pages that you published.

For example, how can anyone miss the BS on your X-scan advertising? First, you claim that this device was tested in August 2003, and you also published alleged testimonial messages from people who claimed they found hidden US dollars in 2003. Then you are inviting X-SCAN customers from all geographical areas to Beta-Test this New Product. Is this still a new product after 6 years... or is that BS?

And what about the claims you published about the X-scan. I am reading two accounts of alleged users of this device who say they quickly found hidden US dollars. Is Theseus correct? Are you unable to demonstrate your X-scan prototype or production model performing as it was described on your web page?

As I recall, you once attempted to demonstrate an LRL device finding coins hidden in the sand, and after you failed miserably, you called the person who offered the testing a liar, rather than to accept a second try where you could have witnesses to observe and document exactly what your LRL instruments detect. It seems to me you still refuse to repeat that test, just as you still refuse to demonstrate your X-scan finding hidden dollars as described on your Web page.

Wasn't Theseus correct when he said "You Can't Do It"?

Best wishes,
J_P

:rolleyes: "WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO ONE SUCKER, CAN BE DONE TO MANY MORE... CAUSE THERE'S ONE BORN EVERY MINUTE!" :rolleyes:

[Theseus]

i have a mfd long range locator and i like it except for having to use the rods to pick up the signal...is there anyone out there that has a schematic for an electronic device that will pick up the signal...thank you

The original poster wanted to "get rid of the rods", and measure the "signal lines" with some form of conventional electronic instrumentation.

What an excellent request.

Dell, why don't you explain to the original poster why in all the years that MFD has been around; the rods are still a necessary item.

Admit to him that "signal lines" are merely a figment of your imagination, and that they don't really exist, hence no electronic device could sense them, no matter how sensitive it might be.

Also, explain to him how it is that a $15 card reader at Walmart can measure the tiny electronic strip on your charge card, but in all these years and with all the technology advances; you've yet to come up with a device that will measure your so-called magnetic differentials, and so you must rely on dowsing rods for an indicator.

I think we'd all like to hear your response to those questions. Leave out the name-calling and other BS, just answer the question, provide some facts and evidence to back up your advertising on your website.

(Or, admit it's nothing more than FRAUD)

[Tim Williams]

I have a question. How did Kim and Hank get to post without registering? And where are they now? You see sense Theseus started here Carl setup the dowsing forum so that you have to register to post. I was just wondering how they posted and where did they go after starting the thread. It would seem they would still be asking questions. I checked the members list and there is no Kim or Hank.

Tim

[Dell Winders]

As I recall, you once attempted to demonstrate an LRL device finding coins hidden in the sand, and after you failed miserably, you called the person who offered the testing a liar, rather than to accept a second try where you could have witnesses to observe and document exactly what your LRL instruments detect. It seems to me you still refuse to repeat that test, just as you still refuse to demonstrate your X-scan finding hidden dollars as described on your Web page.

I see you have twisted the event out of context, and yes, the host was exposed with video proof and witnesses, that he lied about me, and the event. Your totally inaccurate commentary of the event appears to be a part of the follow up damage control that was implemented against my defense of the truth.

Your comments are full of personal BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kim http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=24116#post24116)
i have a mfd long range locator and i like it except for having to use the rods to pick up the signal...is there anyone out there that has a schematic for an electronic device that will pick up the signal...thank you

The original poster wanted to "get rid of the rods", and measure the "signal lines" with some form of conventional electronic instrumentation.

What an excellent request.

Dell, why don't you explain to the original poster why in all the years that MFD has been around; the rods are still a necessary item.

Admit to him that "signal lines" are merely a figment of your imagination, and that they don't really exist, hence no electronic device could sense them, no matter how sensitive it might be.

The Rods are NOT a necessary item. The same fields metered with the use of the Rods have, and can be metered electronically. The differential strength in magnetic fields has, and can be metered electronically, or with simple hand held Rod(s).

Theseus, I am not responsible for your idiocy of applied physics, or your mental aptitude for internet hate mongering under fictitious names. But Carl Morland, IS responsible for the content of this forum and for allowing you and select others to untruthfully accuse me of defrauding my customers, and irresponsibly hiding behind fictitious names and IP's to call me a Scam artist, wallet miner, and refering to my customers as in effect being intellectually defecient. (Jplayers reference, Suckers) There is no truth to your lies.

I hold the webmaster of this forum accountable for encouraging such actions and this type of slanderous participation.

Theseus, your reputation, egotism, and prejudice mentality preceeds you. A number of other aliases have been expelled from reputable forums for your practice of bashing, harassing, and slander directed to defame my life long reputation for honesty and integrity, and impuning the intelligence of those who choose to purchase, or use my home made products.

I will openly defend my honest reputation, honor, and the integrity of my customers until I die. That's a truth. Count on it, Carl. Dell

[Max]

I have a question. How did Kim and Hank get to post without registering? And where are they now? You see sense Theseus started here Carl setup the dowsing forum so that you have to register to post. I was just wondering how they posted and where did they go after starting the thread. It would seem they would still be asking questions. I checked the members list and there is no Kim or Hank.

Tim

It's a good question... but all the rest remains unchanged. :rolleyes:

Some time ago...I had a paint roller but never used for LRL stuff.... maybe it's time to recover it (or buy a new one) and try...

to repaint home I mean! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

I see you have twisted the event out of context, and yes, the host was exposed with video proof and witnesses, that he lied about me, and the event. Your totally inaccurate commentary of the event appears to be a part of the follow up damage control that was implemented against my defense of the truth.

Your comments are full of personal BS.



The Rods are NOT a necessary item. The same fields metered with the use of the Rods have, and can be metered electronically. The differential strength in magnetic fields has, and can be metered electronically, or with simple hand held Rod(s).

Theseus, I am not responsible for your idiocy of applied physics, or your mental aptitude for internet hate mongering under fictitious names. But Carl Morland, IS responsible for the content of this forum and for allowing you and select others to untruthfully accuse me of defrauding my customers, and irresponsibly hiding behind fictitious names and IP's to call me a Scam artist, wallet miner, and refering to my customers as in effect being intellectually defecient. (Jplayers reference, Suckers) There is no truth to your lies.

I hold the webmaster of this forum accountable for encouraging such actions and this type of slanderous participation.

Theseus, your reputation, egotism, and prejudice mentality preceeds you. A number of other aliases have been expelled from reputable forums for your practice of bashing, harassing, and slander directed to defame my life long reputation for honesty and integrity, and impuning the intelligence of those who choose to purchase, or use my home made products.

I will openly defend my honest reputation, honor, and the integrity of my customers until I die. That's a truth. Count on it, Carl. Dell

Hi Dell,
c'mon... don't be an ***...who buy a paint roller for hundreds dollars just cause belive he could find something valuable using it... well... it's a sucker by definition! :lol:

Don't know at your place... but at mine it is so... and all the people will call him a sucker for life! :lol:

Maybe at your place who made that bargain is acclaimed and can run for some public charge... what do you think , uh ? :D (maybe it's so... who knows!?)

The problem is not at terminology... I mean... if I say that you're a fool, or a sucker, or an idiot , or an *****hole, or a prick, or a d|ck... or whatever d|ckhead , or lunatic, or insane, or foolish , or dumb, or moron...or that you'll win the nobel prize for arsehology etc etc I actually wanna just mean maybe you're not so smart doing your things... ;)

But this sure not apply to you... just some of your customers, the ones that really believe a paint roller can find a treasure! There's enough to make such assumption, I think.

The terminology is not important , just the meaning.

But maybe I'm wrong ! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

I have a question. How did Kim and Hank get to post without registering? And where are they now? You see sense Theseus started here Carl setup the dowsing forum so that you have to register to post. I was just wondering how they posted and where did they go after starting the thread. It would seem they would still be asking questions. I checked the members list and there is no Kim or Hank.

An interesting point Tim, but it could be contributed to a programming glitch in the website. However, it does bring to mind an awareness to some of Geotech's, sneaky, underhanded, deceptions in the past, that Carl, used to cater to his roster of fellow Skeptic society supporters. Dell

[Dell Winders]

Hi Dell,
c'mon... don't be an ***...who buy a paint roller for hundreds dollars just cause belive he could find something valuable using it... well... it's a sucker by definition! :lol:

Don't know at your place... but at mine it is so... and all the people will call him a sucker for life! :lol:

Maybe at your place who made that bargain is acclaimed and can run for some public charge... what do you think , uh ? :D (maybe it's so... who knows!?)

The problem is not at terminology... I mean... if I say that you're a fool, or a sucker, or an idiot , or an *****hole, or a prick, or a d|ck... or whatever d|ckhead , or lunatic, or insane, or foolish , or dumb, or moron...or that you'll win the nobel prize for arsehology etc etc I actually wanna just mean maybe you're not so smart doing your things... ;)

But this sure not apply to you... just some of your customers, the ones that really believe a paint roller can find a treasure! There's enough to make such assumption, I think.

The terminology is not important , just the meaning.

But maybe I'm wrong ! :D

Kind regards,
Max

Max, I don't sell paint rollers, and I don't have any customers so stupid as to believe they could find treasure with a paint roller. You can stop your asinine insulting, and mocking the intelligence of my friends and customers through out the world.

Your pursuance of such irrational idiocy, is beyond the realm of intelligent comprehension. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Max, I don't sell paint rollers, and I don't have any customers so stupid as to believe they could find treasure with a paint roller.
OK - so the roller part is missing, but I did see something like this is my local DIY shop. :lol:

:barf: "WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK" :cry:

[Theseus]

The Rods are NOT a necessary item. The same fields metered with the use of the Rods have, and can be metered electronically. The differential strength in magnetic fields has, and can be metered electronically, or with simple hand held Rod(s).
Dell

YES, the rods are a necessary item. If they weren't, someone (if not you, some other Wallet-miner) would have replaced them with an electronic measuring unit a long time ago.

You insist these so-called differential "fields(?)" can and have been monitored electronically. Yet, when you are asked to show how this was done, or to describe the instruments used, how it was documented, and who monitored and validated such measurements --- you ALWAYS duck and run for cover, or change the subject and lapse into name-calling.

I challenge you to post right here, how these fields were measured (without dowsing rods), the instrument used, when it was last calibrated, who monitored the measurements and the actual documentation to record such measurements. You Can't (or Won't) Do It!

The truth is, you or any other LRL Wallet-Miner, have not been able to eliminate the rods from the MFD contraptions, because that would remove the dowsing element, and without dowsing and the ideomotor response the do-nothing MFD box is just so much useless crap.

BTW, if this forum is so disturbing to you --why do you bother to post here?

[J_Player]

the host was exposed with video proof and witnesses,...Oh really?
If this video proof exists, then show it to us Dell. I think this is more BS you made up, and you cannot produce a videotape that exposes the tester as a liar. I think you are on the rampage to call anyone a liar who does not believe your BS. Prove me wrong. Where is this alleged videotape?

Did you forget to answer the challenges that were made to you?
Are you able to demonstrate your X-scans finding hidden US dollars like your web page says it does?

Should we assume this is just a bunch of BS from Dell Winders to fool suckers into thinking the X-scan can find hidden dollars? Was Theseus correct when he said you can't prove it?

Beset wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

BTW, if this forum is so disturbing to you --why do you bother to post here?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You'll never get an answer to that question. I've asked several times before.
The real reason, why dowsing and LRL proponents post here, is because they are masochistic by nature. :rolleyes:

[Mike(Mont)]

Better keep your daytime job, Q, You ain't no psychic or shrink. Dowsers love to discuss the topic even at the cost of putting up with the likes of you. You guys talk about freedom of speech, but you try like hell to prevent us from doing so. I feel sorry for you that you refuse to learn to dowse. I had an relative that refused to learn to read. I think he was afraid of it.

[Theseus]

Better keep your daytime job, Q, You ain't no psychic or shrink. Dowsers love to discuss the topic even at the cost of putting up with the likes of you. You guys talk about freedom of speech, but you try like hell to prevent us from doing so. I feel sorry for you that you refuse to learn to dowse. I had an relative that refused to learn to read. I think he was afraid of it.

I don't see anyone telling you, you could not post here, and it seems you put up postings whenever you want. None of your freedoms have been compromised or taken away from you (or Dell).

However, try to remember that we (the skeptical community) have the very same rights to freedom of speech as you do, and when exercised, we shouldn't have to be "put up with", or have you conjecture that we refuse to learn to dowse.

For your information, I have done all kinds of dowsing, with all sorts of different instruments, ELSE how do you suppose I learned how dowsing and dowsing contraptions actually work. Further, I would rather imagine most of the skeptical community have done similar research, in order to arrive at the truth about dowsing and scam dowsing contraptions.

Try not to make rash assumptions about the people you are talking to, if you really have no idea about their background or experience.

BTW, when was the last time you actually had a daytime job?

[Fred]

...You guys talk about freedom of speech, but you try like hell to prevent us from doing so. .
What "some guys" here are trying to prevent is "other guys" trying to fool people with unproved claims. And by doing to to sell -very- expensive brazing rods and hot melt glued resistors.
Nothing related to freedom of speech.:shocked:

... I had an relative that refused to learn to read. I think he was afraid of it.

You mean...a customer maybe? :lol:

[Dell Winders]

For your information, I have done all kinds of dowsing, with all sorts of different instruments, ELSE how do you suppose I learned how dowsing and dowsing contraptions actually work.

That's BS! You show no indication that you know anything at about the subjects other than your personal BELIEF based on assumption, not truth, or fact. Apparently, you have never been mentally capable of learning to Dowse, or learn to use LRL with success, as evidenced by your rantings with prejudiced, closed minded belief, attacking and threatening Dowsers & LRL users at every opportunity. Calling names, and demonstrating your jealousy and resentment against those who are successful with these locating methods.

If you claim you have more field experience, and successes with Mental Dowsing, or LRL than I do, and are more uniquely qualified to speak with accuracy on these subjects, I'll compare my field experience, accompanied with witnessed events, and photographs of successes against yours, or any other Skeptic spouting their venom, hatred, and ignorance on this forum against LRL users, and Dowsers.

Of course, you have been challenged before to show your bragged about abilities that qualifies you to speak authoritatively on these subjects. But as usual I'm sure your monster ego, will not permit you to admit to your Skeptic peers that you have very limited field experience, and no successes to show, and that you will weasel your way out and try to save face.

Come on, Sam, show some photo's of your Mental, meta-physical Dowsing, or applied physics LRL finds, that qualifies you to speak against me as an authority on either of these subjects. I'll try to match you, find for find, success for success, either way, but I won't attempt to compete with your irrational, egotistical BS.

Of course, If you ever decide you want to learn about these subjects, just pay attention to Mike's, posts. He has done more open minded research, and has more positive field experience on these subjects, than you and the rest of the venom tounged Skeptics on this forum put together. And like other, LRL users posting here, we have tried to contribute something positive to this forum.

Show your respect and gratitude for our positive contributions. Your Skeptic prejudice and hatred only breeds contempt and animosity.

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND" Dell

[Max]

That's BS! You show no indication that you know anything at all about the subjects other than your personal BELIEF based on assumpption, not truth, or fact. Apparently you aren't mentally capable of learning to Dowse, or learn to use LRL with success, least you wouldn't be ranting with prejudiced, closed minded Beliefs based on assumption, attacking and threatening Dowsers & LRL users at every opportunity, calling names, and demonstrating your jealousy and resentment against those who are successful with these locating methods.

If you claim you have more field experience, and successes with Mental Dowsing, or LRL than I do, and are more uniquely qualified to speak with accuracy on these subjects, I'll compare my field experience, accompanied with witnessed events, and photographs of successes against yours, or any other Skeptic spouting their venom, hatred, and ignorance on this forum against LRL users, and Dowsers.

Of course, you have been challenged before to show your bragged about abilities that qualifies you to speak authoriatively on these subjects. But as usual I'm sure your monster ego, will not permit you to admit to your Skeptic peers that you have very limited field experience, and no successes to show, and that you will weasel your way out and try to save face.

Come on, Sam, show some photo's of your Mental, meta-physical Dowsing, or applied physics, LRL finds, that qualifies you to speak against me as an authority on either of these subjects. I'll try to match you, find for find either way, but I won't attempt to compete with your egotistical BS.

Of course, If you ever decide you want to learn about these subjects, just pay attention to Mike's, posts. He has done more open minded research, and has more positive field experience on these subjects, than you and the rest of the venom tounged Skeptics on this forum put together. And like other, LRL users posting here, we have tried to contribute something positive to this forum.

Show your respect and gratitude for our positive contributions. Your Skeptic prejudice and hatred only breeds animosity.

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND" Dell

Which venom are you talking about ??? :lol:

You wanna people think you don't realized that the skeptics here pointed to your useless pieces of junk cause they cannot do anything of what's supposed they do.

How come a piece of bent brass rod can help people locating something ??? :lol:

It's like you read your horoscope to figure out if you have to drop your girlfriend ! :razz:

Idiotic way of doing... I can just laugh of people who belive in such lunatic stuff! :D

I mean... if you wanna drop your girlfriend do so ! Why the need of reading an idiotic horoscope made by some new age do-nothing, understand-nothing addicted to crystals ? :rolleyes:

Why you LRL pretenders need that rods , uh ?

Why don't you use your nervous system... if so sophisticate stuff in the universe ?

Only reason is that who belive in LRL and mental dowsing at the end will belive he needs some pendulum or dowsing rod to "enhance" his/her powers !:lol:

You LRL addicted still belive in Santa Claus , Peter Pan, in the Three Little Pigs and other fairy tales!

People like Dell play with you like toys cause you never grown to understand reality... made of physics not fairy tales.

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND" :lol: that seems say to people, "open your mind... belive my idiotic claims... and find your treasure with my magic , wornderful dowsing rod! "

I think this is the real venom here.

From what I remember you failed to find the coins at the beach experiment... great LRL expert! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

Better keep your daytime job, Q, You ain't no psychic or shrink.
Correct ... I'm not a psychic ... :lol: ... or even a wallet-miner.

I feel sorry for you that you refuse to learn to dowse. I had an relative that refused to learn to read. I think he was afraid of it.
Now, why would I want to waste my time on a ineffectual method of treasure hunting, when I have several known-working metal detectors that find treasure more than once? i.e. not just at the time of purchase.

Apparently you aren't mentally capable of learning to Dowse, or learn to use LRL with success, .....
Like 100% of the world's population. Dowsing is just a trick of the mind. No-one actually learns to dowse, only how to fool themselves into believing something that is not true, and potentially parting with hard-earned money for a modified paint roller.

.....least you wouldn't be ranting with prejudiced, closed minded Beliefs based on assumption, ...
I'm glad to see that this doesn't apply to you. :rolleyes:

If you claim you have more field experience, and successes with Mental Dowsing, or LRL than I do, ...
30+ years of wasted time, peddling nonsense to the unwary.

Come on, Sam, show some photo's of your Mental, meta-physical Dowsing, or applied physics, LRL finds, that qualifies you to speak against me as an authority on either of these subjects. I'll try to match you, find for find either way, but I won't attempt to compete with your egotistical BS.
You would think, that years of experience with mental dowsing, would enable someone to know who they're talking to, and not get other people's identities confused? :???: Must be having a senior moment...

Of course, If you ever decide you want to learn about these subjects, just pay attention to Mike's, posts. He has done more open minded research, and has more positive field experience on these subjects, than you and the rest of the venom tounged Skeptics on this forum put together.
Actually, Mike is just a victim. Did you know that "gullible" is not listed in the Oxford English dictionary?

Show your respect and gratitude for our positive contributions.
Apologies ... Oh Mighty One. :razz:

:barf:"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK. :cry:

[Theseus]

Calling names, and demonstrating your jealousy and resentment against those who are successful with these locating methods.

Sounds like you just described yourself. You are the one that does all the name-calling, whenever someone threatens your scam LRL business.

If you claim you have more field experience, and successes with Mental Dowsing, or LRL than I do, and are more uniquely qualified to speak with accuracy on these subjects...

I see I need to educate you again! Boy, this sure does get tiring. Why don't you write this down and refer to it the next time you are confused.

What I claim; is to have dowsed in the field, in the laboratory, and to have researched and dowsed with countless dowsing contraptions, both enhanced(?) and non-enhanced to the degree that I completely understand the workings of all dowsing contraptions, and yes that includes your MFD contraptions as well as your "paint roller handles".

If I did not have that experience, knowledge and understanding, I would not be able to expose your scam products and similar products from other vendors.

Incidently, the results of my dowsing experiences are precisely the same as yours, or Mikes or any other dowser regardless of your choice of dowsing gadgets (bent rods or enhanced dowsing with do-nothing black boxes).


Come on, Sam, show

Sorry to inform you, you must have me confused with someone else, and I don't see anyone posting here by that name, do you?

"DELL'S DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING OF THE REAL WORLD IS CLOSED AT ALL TIMES" Dell

I guess all you really have an open mind to is Wallet-mining and selling snake oil.

BTW, did you forget; I challenge you to post right here, how your differential fields were measured (without dowsing rods), the instrument used, when it was last calibrated, who monitored the measurements and the actual documentation to record such measurements.

Guess you've got a little short-term memory loss. Does Trudy help you find your socks in the morning?:D

[Fred]

... If you ever decide you want to learn about these subjects, just pay attention to Mike's, posts. He has done more open minded research, and has more positive field experience on these subjects, than you and the rest of the venom tounged Skeptics on this forum put together. And like other, LRL users posting here, we have tried to contribute something positive to this forum.
Dell, what about you?
I have never seen a positive post from you , answer a question or explain something.
Why do you let someone else doing the job for you?

[Theseus]

Of course, If you ever decide you want to learn about these subjects, just pay attention to Mike's, posts. He has done more open minded research, and has more positive field experience on these subjects, than you and the rest of the venom tounged Skeptics on this forum put together.

I suppose you are buttering-up Mike because you have a lot of his cash drawing interest in your bank accounts.

Incidently, you just can't make a post without resorting to name-calling. I repeat, if this forum is so disturbing to you, why do you remain here?

[Qiaozhi]

"DELL'S DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING OF THE REAL WORLD IS CLOSED AT ALL TIMES" Dell
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Best one so far!

[Mike(Mont)]

Dell hit the bull's eye here. I'm no psychiatrist, but some things are glaringily obvious. Anyone with a big ego/intellect cannot dowse "any better than random chance". The whole idea of the big ego relates to a flawed self-image, too. It's called self-deception and usually involves an inferiority complex attempting to project confidence. Prostitute the intellect to defend the ego.

[Max]

Dell hit the bull's eye here. I'm no psychiatrist, but some things are glaringily obvious. Anyone with a big ego/intellect cannot dowse "any better than random chance". The whole idea of the big ego relates to a flawed self-image, too. It's called self-deception and usually involves an inferiority complex attempting to project confidence. Prostitute the intellect to defend the ego.

:lol:

What ? I need to diminute my ego to dowse the right way ??? :razz:

Have you measured Dell's ego recently!? :lol:

I think its dimensions are like a VW van of the 60's! You can carry hippies inside ! :cool:

What a example of small ego! :rolleyes:

Or wanna try with Hung ??? :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

Dell hit the bull's eye here. I'm no psychiatrist, but some things are glaringily obvious. Anyone with a big ego/intellect cannot dowse "any better than random chance". The whole idea of the big ego relates to a flawed self-image, too. It's called self-deception and usually involves an inferiority complex attempting to project confidence. Prostitute the intellect to defend the ego.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Sure ... you are not a psychiatrist ... that much is obvious.
Also, big ego/intellect or diminutive ego/lack-of-brains - no difference, as far as dowsing is concerned. No-one can dowse with a success rate better than random chance.
The only self-deception is in the head of the dowser, and you are proving it here quite admirably, thank you very much. :razz:

[Fred]

Anyone with a big ego/intellect cannot dowse "any better than random chance". ..
Now the ego must suits the rods needs ?? I am beginning to think there are so many requisites that succesfull dowsing is reserved for the Elite - aparently called Sellers :lol:

[J_Player]

.

[Max]

.

Always the old pimp... :lol:

At the end he will convince someone...:shocked:

[Morgan]

Always the old pimp... :lol:

At the end he will convince someone...:shocked:
Who is this man in the photo?
:shocked:
Now you change photos very often,but this one looks very empty...

[Morgan]

Always the old pimp... :lol:

At the end he will convince someone...:shocked:
I hope its not you in the photo:rolleyes:...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Qiaozhi]

Who is this man in the photo?
:shocked:
Now you change photos very often,but this one looks very empty...
It's Hannibal the Cannibal. :eek:

[Fred]

Now you change photos very often,but this one looks very empty...

It's Hannibal the Cannibal. :eek:

Not so empty after all :lol:

[J_Player]

you are what you eat....

:rolleyes:

best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Yes, it's the Cannibal...

BTW, have you already an invitation to dinner !?

I'd like to discuss of LRL... enjoying some good wine and a liver dish.... :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

Yes, it's the Cannibal...

BTW, have you already an invitation to dinner !?

I'd like to discuss of LRL... enjoying some good wine and a liver dish.... :D

Kind regards,
Max
You could try advertising on the internet. It worked for one particular German. :drool:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3286721.stm

[Max]

You could try advertising on the internet. It worked for one particular German. :drool:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3286721.stm

:lol: yes, I know that story... cannot belive at first... but saw on TV and then ...(cause TV showed it) now I belive it happened! :D

Absolutely INSANE! :rolleyes:

I think even Hannibal would refuse to eat some "parts"... :eek:
crown jewels...:lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

I think even Hannibal would refuse to eat some "parts"... :eek:
crown jewels...:lol:
Apparently, that's the part they ate first!
And I do mean "they".:barf:

[Theseus]

Guess who just said; "This thread is becoming confusing with the injection of physics, with mental Dowsing, without making a distinction, or clarification between the use of meta- physics, and physics control of the Rod(s)

True Dowsing is purely meta-physical, consisting of mental, mind/ muscle control of the Rod(s) i.e, Map, Photo, & Information Dowsing control of the Dowsing tool via a mind/muscle reaction. (a trained ideomotor response)

Physics are incorporated in field searches when the Rods are permitted to react freely on their own to a stronger earth "field" that concentrates in varying degrees of strength around anomalies, or the related "field" of a Harmonic signal line, generated between "like" anomalies"

What a load of BS! And to think, you concocted that entire line of s__t just to fool the gullible into buying one of your scam MFD contraptions for large dollars.

How many times must I remind you? There are not two kinds of dowsing; Mental and Physical.

Dowsing is dowsing and it doesn't matter whether you employ a piece of tree branch or the most expensive so-called enhanced dowsing contraption sold by you or any of the other wallet-miners. Regardless of the dowsing gadget/tool used, the responses from the rods ALL occur as a result of a randomly generated ideomotor response. That is in fact why dowsing produces the same results as ordinary guessing.

I challenge you to provide evidence to the contrary, and to prove (here) there are two kinds of dowsing (ie. mental and physical).

We are waiting.....

[Dell Winders]

Shame, shame on you Sam. Stealing a partial post from another forum with out giving credit, misconsruing it totally out of context, and use your rant to excuse your prejudice, and show off that tid bit of knowledge you learned from me, to save face in front of your peers for your own inability to learn to Dowse.

The truth is, I have always agreed. By definition, there is only one true dowsing method, and that is the meta-physical use of a trained mind/muscle, ideomotor response.

The implication of known laws of physics incorporated into meta-physical Dowsing is inaccurate, in my opinion, and at best a mis-nomer.

I sure don't understand the mentality that denies that a metal rod cannot be applied to physics applications? There is no scientific proof, or evidence of truth whatsoever, to warrant such an idiotic assertion. Dell

[Theseus]

Shame, shame.....

No shame involved, none whatsoever.

The quote I made was done within the "fair use" rights as outlined in Section 107-118 of the Copyright Act, Title 17, US Code. Reproduction was done in order to provide criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching and research; and as such is allowed according to the US Code.

Everything you said was nothing more than your tired and practiced dodge to my "challenge". How predictable of you to lapse into your old side-step of fair questions put to you about your scam LRL products and theories.

Has it ever occurred to you that legitimate business people, involved in legitimate products/services greet questions with enthusiasm, and respond with honest and helpful responses? And, when they don't have a good answer, they promise to get an answer or just say they don't know.

You, on the other hand, have NEVER taken that approach to questions. I think that says about everything about the validity and legitimacy of the products you are trying to sell.

Of course, I already knew what your response would be to my challenge, but I just wanted to give you yet another opportunity to dig your hole a little deeper, and another opportunity for you to show your true self to the other readers. Thank you, you came through like a champ. (or was that chump)

Still confused about "Sam". I must be missing some postings here because I fail to see anyone posting by that name. Is anyone else seeing postings from "Sam" ???

[g-sani]

I might think(believe) different from the most and then it was always somebody doing it.
Leaving everything apart concetrating yourself in what you really like can give you the desired result.It don't matter and I don't really care if this is called dowsing or anything else.
It could be done in a milion different ways or maybe even more.
I see some people trying to oppose to the willness of some others and it shouldn't be so since it is proved through time that the advandage of human race is that anything is possible to be done but when is trully wanted.
Well in dowsing there is a certain way of doing things in order to achieve results much faster than you should.
This is how I see it and that comes up from what hapened up to now.
Of course it is private experiences and thoughts coming out over here and then others should respect them since nobody puts a knife on their neck in order to do so.
If everybody agreed then it would be no need proving things or finding solutions.

[Qiaozhi]

I sure don't understand ...
That's probably about all you need to say. However, you go on...

... the mentality that denies that a metal rod cannot be applied to physics applications?
There is no connection between a metal coat hanger, paint roller or tree branch, and the physics of metal detecting, or even water divining, except in the deceived mind of the dowser.

There is no scientific proof, or evidence of truth whatsoever, to warrant such an idiotic assertion. Dell
:lol: :lol: :lol: You said it there!

:barf:"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK" :cry:

[Theseus]

I might think(believe) different from the most and then it was always somebody doing it.
Leaving everything apart concetrating yourself in what you really like can give you the desired result.It don't matter and I don't really care if this is called dowsing or anything else.
It could be done in a milion different ways or maybe even more.
I see some people trying to oppose to the willness of some others and it shouldn't be so since it is proved through time that the advandage of human race is that anything is possible to be done but when is trully wanted.
Well in dowsing there is a certain way of doing things in order to achieve results much faster than you should.
This is how I see it and that comes up from what hapened up to now.
Of course it is private experiences and thoughts coming out over here and then others should respect them since nobody puts a knife on their neck in order to do so.
If everybody agreed then it would be no need proving things or finding solutions.

Dowsing is a very ancient practice. As such, it has been fairly tested many times by many legitimate researchers (not just LRL salesmen). In ALL cases when it has been fairly tested, the results of dowsing have always been in line with simple "guessing".

In the past few decades, there are those who have added do-nothing electronic components to their dowsing wands, in the hope of cashing in on big profits from those gullible enough to believe some physical or scientific process was going on. IN TRUTH!!! No amount of do-nothing electronics can negate the fact that the heart of the contraption still employs plain old "dowsing", and as such will ALWAYS produce results that are like "guessing".

[Mike(Mont)]

JUst keep repeating it to yourself and you will believe it. I've said it before that science does not understand what they can't measure and they don't have a clue about the light of consciousness. They know the observer influences the experiment, but that's about all they know. Christopher Hills was definitely the most knowledgable person on this subject. His book "Supersensonics" is a masterpeice on the subject. That guy was a mega genius. Most people cannot even understand what he says. I had to read it at least five times and I still don't get it all. He explains about the scientists who dared to consider the subject and they were all banished by their peers, their careers destroyed.

Hills studied yoga in India and became the president of the World Yoda Association. Anyone who is so arrogant to think they can learn to dowse in twenty minutes is living in self-deception. They will never learn to dowse with that attitude. Like Hills and Fred Stewart say, learning to become an accomplished dowser takes fifteen plus years of living it. And that's with an experienced teacher. Most people are not ready to accept what is needed to learn. The negative attitude is a sure way to destroy your chances of success.

As much as I have talkd about dowing lately, I don't use it that much. It is stressful on the body. A frequency transmitter is a lot easier to learn but there are some problems. Things like mineralization can be nearly impossible to deal with.

An expert dowser does not need a rod. Most people can learn to feel the psychic twinge, the electricity in the palm of their hand. The skin on the palm is an area with many nerve endings. The acupuncture points act as a wave guide for the energy. Some top dowsers do not even need to feel the electricity in their skin. You can feel this energy when you walk through a signal line from a frequency generator depending on the atmospheric conditions. I discovered it myself that air pressure has an effect on negative ions which makes for good locating conditions. Then I read the same thing and that ions facilitate the energy to travel through the air.

I also suspect that some failed dowsers have never dowsed except on a full stomach. They eat then go attempt to dowse. This is a sure way to get bad results. You just can't feel it.It's sort of like trying to make a telephone call on a busy line. And many times I find myself daydreaming or thinking about something other than the target. This is totally unacceptable.

[g-sani]

Very interesting what you said about the frequency transmiter Mike.
Can you please go into a more detailed explanation about that?
I understood that even a profesional dowser when is treasure hunting prefers using a frequency transmiter.Can you please explain why they find it easier that way?
Do they find the exact spot of the target much easier?
Does their energy drain slower so they can dowse for more?
Is the results more secure or accurate?
My self always thought that when dowsing whith the aid of a frequency generator I have more possibilities getting fooled by a rusty iron piece going there instead of going where the gold is as we set the freq. generator.

I agree Theseus that there are people out there selling long range devices that do nothing else than dowsing.But this happens everywhere and in every subject so it doesn't say anything to me if somebody tries to get rich through this.
It is not all priests right anyway.

[Theseus]

JUst keep repeating it to yourself and you will believe it. I've said it before that science does not understand what they can't measure and they don't have a clue about the light of consciousness.

And you do? :rolleyes: Tell me why "science" should waste time investigating something that lies strictly within the realm of pseudoscience? Studying something where each result is different from all others and happens in a random fashion is a never-ending task and incredibly fruitless. Much like dowsing.

Christopher Hills was definitely the most knowledgable person on this subject. His book "Supersensonics" is a masterpeice on the subject.

Christopher Hills was an author of books, and a charlatan. He made his fortune as a wallet miner, writing books about nonsense and selling them to the gullible and technically challenged. His theories are so far out in left field, they can't even be discussed except in the light of the twilight zone.

[Fred]

Two more necessary conditions for the succesfull dowser:50 years of training and empty stomach.
To be amended to the already very long list.
I wonder if this is mentioned when selling L-rods.

[Qiaozhi]

JUst keep repeating it to yourself and you will believe it.
Isn't this the mantra of the dowser? The skeptics do not need to "believe", we just look at the results of the double-blind tests, and it is clear that dowsing is only as accurate as guessing.

I've said it before that science does not understand what they can't measure and they don't have a clue about the light of consciousness.
There you go again ... repeating the mantra.

Christopher Hills was definitely the most knowledgable person on this subject. His book "Supersensonics" is a masterpeice on the subject. That guy was a mega genius. Most people cannot even understand what he says.
This is why skeptics frequent the Remote Sensing Forum ... it's a laugh a minute. :lol:

Anyone who is so arrogant to think they can learn to dowse in twenty minutes is living in self-deception. They will never learn to dowse with that attitude. Like Hills and Fred Stewart say, learning to become an accomplished dowser takes fifteen plus years of living it. And that's with an experienced teacher.
Like Dell, it is obvious that you also never bothered to watch "The Enemies of Reason". Some of the dowsers in the documentary had as much as 40 years experience (and the old guy in the background looked like he had about 80 years) but none of them could pass the double-blind test. Their results were the same as just guessing.
An expert dowser does not need a rod.
And do you know why? Because it's all in the mind. :razz:

Most people can learn to feel the psychic twinge, the electricity in the palm of their hand. The skin on the palm is an area with many nerve endings. The acupuncture points act as a wave guide for the energy. Some top dowsers do not even need to feel the electricity in their skin. You can feel this energy when you walk through a signal line from a frequency generator depending on the atmospheric conditions. I discovered it myself that air pressure has an effect on negative ions which makes for good locating conditions. Then I read the same thing and that ions facilitate the energy to travel through the air.
Theseus used the term "technically challenged", and frequently we have described this stuff as "pseudoscience", but in this particular case I think a better term is "codswallop". If you don't know what that means, then google it.

I also suspect that some failed dowsers have never dowsed except on a full stomach. They eat then go attempt to dowse. This is a sure way to get bad results. You just can't feel it.It's sort of like trying to make a telephone call on a busy line. And many times I find myself daydreaming or thinking about something other than the target. This is totally unacceptable.
This is an even bigger load of codswallop. :lol:

Very interesting what you said about the frequency transmiter ...Is the results more secure or accurate?
No difference. The results are exactly the same as before.

[Max]

JUst keep repeating it to yourself and you will believe it. I've said it before that science does not understand what they can't measure and they don't have a clue about the light of consciousness. They know the observer influences the experiment, but that's about all they know. Christopher Hills was definitely the most knowledgable person on this subject. His book "Supersensonics" is a masterpeice on the subject. That guy was a mega genius. Most people cannot even understand what he says. I had to read it at least five times and I still don't get it all. He explains about the scientists who dared to consider the subject and they were all banished by their peers, their careers destroyed.

Hills studied yoga in India and became the president of the World Yoda Association. Anyone who is so arrogant to think they can learn to dowse in twenty minutes is living in self-deception. They will never learn to dowse with that attitude. Like Hills and Fred Stewart say, learning to become an accomplished dowser takes fifteen plus years of living it. And that's with an experienced teacher. Most people are not ready to accept what is needed to learn. The negative attitude is a sure way to destroy your chances of success.

As much as I have talkd about dowing lately, I don't use it that much. It is stressful on the body. A frequency transmitter is a lot easier to learn but there are some problems. Things like mineralization can be nearly impossible to deal with.

An expert dowser does not need a rod. Most people can learn to feel the psychic twinge, the electricity in the palm of their hand. The skin on the palm is an area with many nerve endings. The acupuncture points act as a wave guide for the energy. Some top dowsers do not even need to feel the electricity in their skin. You can feel this energy when you walk through a signal line from a frequency generator depending on the atmospheric conditions. I discovered it myself that air pressure has an effect on negative ions which makes for good locating conditions. Then I read the same thing and that ions facilitate the energy to travel through the air.

I also suspect that some failed dowsers have never dowsed except on a full stomach. They eat then go attempt to dowse. This is a sure way to get bad results. You just can't feel it.It's sort of like trying to make a telephone call on a busy line. And many times I find myself daydreaming or thinking about something other than the target. This is totally unacceptable.

I see... you're stone too! :lol:

Maybe you lick some hallucinogenic toad just before hitting on keys! :razz:

I think you need a good clinic Mike! Like Paris Hilton! :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

As much as I have talkd about dowing lately, I don't use it that much. It is stressful on the body. A frequency transmitter is a lot easier to learn but there are some problems. Things like mineralization can be nearly impossible to deal with.

I can only assume, from the statement above, that you believe dowsing and the use of a frequency transmitter with your L-rod are two different processes.

If you think dowsing and an ideomotor response are not involved when you use a frequency transmitter --please explain what you think it is that causes your L-rod(s) to swing, lock or indicate? Please be specific when explaining the forces or fields involved.

[Rudy]

JUst keep repeating it to yourself and you will believe it. I've said it before that science does not understand what they can't measure and they don't have a clue about the light of consciousness. They know the observer influences the experiment, but that's about all they know. Christopher Hills was definitely the most knowledgable person on this subject. His book "Supersensonics" is a masterpeice on the subject. That guy was a mega genius. Most people cannot even understand what he says. I had to read it at least five times and I still don't get it all. He explains about the scientists who dared to consider the subject and they were all banished by their peers, their careers destroyed.

Hills studied yoga in India and became the president of the World Yoda Association. Anyone who is so arrogant to think they can learn to dowse in twenty minutes is living in self-deception. They will never learn to dowse with that attitude. Like Hills and Fred Stewart say, learning to become an accomplished dowser takes fifteen plus years of living it. And that's with an experienced teacher. Most people are not ready to accept what is needed to learn. The negative attitude is a sure way to destroy your chances of success.

As much as I have talkd about dowing lately, I don't use it that much. It is stressful on the body. A frequency transmitter is a lot easier to learn but there are some problems. Things like mineralization can be nearly impossible to deal with.

An expert dowser does not need a rod. Most people can learn to feel the psychic twinge, the electricity in the palm of their hand. The skin on the palm is an area with many nerve endings. The acupuncture points act as a wave guide for the energy. Some top dowsers do not even need to feel the electricity in their skin. You can feel this energy when you walk through a signal line from a frequency generator depending on the atmospheric conditions. I discovered it myself that air pressure has an effect on negative ions which makes for good locating conditions. Then I read the same thing and that ions facilitate the energy to travel through the air.

I also suspect that some failed dowsers have never dowsed except on a full stomach. They eat then go attempt to dowse. This is a sure way to get bad results. You just can't feel it.It's sort of like trying to make a telephone call on a busy line. And many times I find myself daydreaming or thinking about something other than the target. This is totally unacceptable.


May the force be with you.

[Qiaozhi]

May the force be with you.
I think the part about Yoda was a typo. :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

G-sani, I'm no expert on why a frequency generator works. I'm no dowsing expert, either. The only way I can put it is I rely on the frequency generator to do most of the work for me. It's just less emotional strain. It is easier for me to relax. And the target response is usually much better. Yes, you are going to get some false targets.

[joecoin]

While I am skeptical when it comes to dowsing, I know that years and years of meditation can produce some remarkable results. If you have never seen the following documentary:

http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Fire-Indonesian-Odyssey-Fire-Indonesian/dp/B0001I54S4/ref=pd_sim_b_1

you owe it to yourself to watch it.

The episode where the doctor sets fire to the newspaper using his palm is worth watching.

[Steve in MS]

This thread was getting a little off track but thanks to Mike(Mont) and others like Dell Winders, we are back on track now and all now understand how to dowse:lol:. I was really impressed with the wisdom of the reply
"may the force be with you":D.
Yoga?, maybe it is Yoda and Puke Skydowser:D- this one maybe ate too much before going out:D?
Now I am going to get into the right frame of mind to dowse.
Beam me up Scotty:D:lol:!

[Qiaozhi]

While I am skeptical when it comes to dowsing, I know that years and years of meditation can produce some remarkable results. If you have never seen the following documentary:

http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Fire-Indonesian-Odyssey-Fire-Indonesian/dp/B0001I54S4/ref=pd_sim_b_1

you owe it to yourself to watch it.

The episode where the doctor sets fire to the newspaper using his palm is worth watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8iCIYx1CYc
The newspaper trick comes after about 2mins 30secs.

[Fred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8iCIYx1CYc
The newspaper trick comes after about 2mins 30secs.
I am impressed by the sound operator trick :shocked:

[Qiaozhi]

I am impressed by the sound operator trick :shocked:
And - it is a trick.
Watch this one, where Derren Brown demonstrates the 1-inch punch ... without touching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBXXA5xhcQ0
It's amazing what tricks the mind can play.
And while we're at it - this one's great fun to watch -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwvA0rJ6rC0&feature=related

[Mike(Mont)]

I learned to dowse in 1981. No rods. The unit had a GSR hooked to a supposedly resonating circuit and antenna. Only thing was the circuit was not even hooked up. I rewired it so the pot's actually did something in line with a variable capacitor and the antenna (no power source). The antenna was attached to the black box and you turned it 360 degrees until the GSR meter made what I called a "fish strike" .The meter would make a quick, sharp but small deflection for a good hit. I really did get the Eureka sensation when on line. Actually I imagined the antenna was a laser beam scanning the area. I find dowsing very draining on my energy. Ten or fiftenn minutes maximum.

[joecoin]

And - it is a trick.
Watch this one, where Derren Brown demonstrates the 1-inch punch ... without touching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBXXA5xhcQ0
It's amazing what tricks the mind can play.
And while we're at it - this one's great fun to watch -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwvA0rJ6rC0&feature=related

Qiaozhi,

The 2 links you posted are indeed probably tricks, but I don't think the doctor in Indonesian is a phony. Just my opinion.

Again, I am no fan of dowsing and I believe that all of the LRL's that I have seen are a scam.

[Max]

Qiaozhi,

The 2 links you posted are indeed probably tricks, but I don't think the doctor in Indonesian is a phony. Just my opinion.

Again, I am no fan of dowsing and I believe that all of the LRL's that I have seen are a scam.

Here's another for the "Geotech's stoned collection 2008" ! :lol:

That stuff will kill you! Stop right now! :D

[Qiaozhi]

Qiaozhi,

The 2 links you posted are indeed probably tricks, but I don't think the doctor in Indonesian is a phony. Just my opinion.

Again, I am no fan of dowsing and I believe that all of the LRL's that I have seen are a scam.
If you put your sensible hat on for a moment, you will concur that (of course) it is a trick. No-one can set fire to newspaper by simply touching it.

And yes - the two links I posted are tricks. Derren Brown is a skeptic of paranormal matters, and freely admits that he has no psychic powers. It's a combination of psychology, magic, misdirection and showmanship. Even when he admits that the stuff he does is a trick, some people just don't believe him. That's how much they really want to believe. Amazing!

[Max]

If you put your sensible hat on for a moment, you will concur that (of course) it is a trick. No-one can set fire to newspaper by simply touching it.

And yes - the two links I posted are tricks. Derren Brown is a skeptic of paranormal matters, and freely admits that he has no psychic powers. It's a combination of psychology, magic, misdirection and showmanship. Even when he admits that the stuff he does is a trick, some people just don't believe him. That's how much they really want to believe. Amazing!

"No-one can set fire to newspaper by simply touching it." :rolleyes:

You're wrong! :razz:

I know a couple of girls that will set on fire anything... with a little touch!:D

But maybe this is too off-topic here! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

I know a couple of girls that will set on fire anything... with a little touch!:D
Please PM me their details... :cool:

[Fred]

And - it is a trick.
Watch this one, where Derren Brown demonstrates the 1-inch punch ... without touching.
It's amazing what tricks the mind can play.
How can he knows the exact moment the guy is making the punch movement, when standing brehind ?
Everytime i see a similar demonstration , i feel frustrated to see that no real scientific examination has been made to the "phenomenon."

[Qiaozhi]

How can he knows the exact moment the guy is making the punch movement, when standing brehind ?
Everytime i see a similar demonstration , i feel frustrated to see that no real scientific examination has been made to the "phenomenon."
The student is already mentally prepared to believe the punch will happen. When the punch is done from behind, there are audible clues before the "punch" is made. Either clothes rustling, or the sound of breathing. Then it's simply up to the mind to take over.

[J_Player]

The student is already mentally prepared to believe the punch will happen. When the punch is done from behind, there are audible clues before the "punch" is made. Either clothes rustling, or the sound of breathing. Then it's simply up to the mind to take over.Hmmmm...

Is this how dowsing and frequency generators work too? After hours of meditating, are there psychic clues that tell the dowser/LRL-user which direction the signal line is shooting from? :oh:

May the farce be with you.

Best wishes,
J_P

[joecoin]

The student is already mentally prepared to believe the punch will happen. When the punch is done from behind, there are audible clues before the "punch" is made. Either clothes rustling, or the sound of breathing. Then it's simply up to the mind to take over.

So the newspaper is already mentally prepared to believe it will burst into flames?

[Steve in MS]

Hmmmm...

Is this how dowsing and frequency generators work too? After hours of meditating, are there psychic clues that tell the dowser/LRL-user which direction the signal line is shooting from? :oh:

May the farce be with you.

Best wishes,
J_P

Or maybe... May the Swartz be with you:D.

[goldfinder]

This will not "prove" anything to the skeptics but is interesting annectodal "evidence".

Several years ago I did extensive testing of the MFD phenomena using a clairvoyant that could see the energies on a different dimension. I tested the clairvoyant on quite a number of other energy tests before running the MFD tests.

We used special spiral antennas coated with gold and silver hooked to an audio signal generator.

The Clairvoyant could see an energy line (actually a intensified energy) over and above the background energy field going from the transmitter to a gold sample and later a large silver sample. I then walked through the energy line and the clairvoyant saw the line disturbed and actually drop off. Timing measurements showed that it took the MFD about 45 seconds to reestablish the enegy line.

We also verified that as the sun got higher in the sky (original tests were done before sun up but still daylight the sun's energies blotted out the energy line.

We did extensive testing of various frequencies and found several that worked better than others.

Goldfinder

[Qiaozhi]

This will not "prove" anything to the skeptics but is interesting annectodal "evidence".

Several years ago I did extensive testing of the MFD phenomena using a clairvoyant that could see the energies on a different dimension. I tested the clairvoyant on quite a number of other energy tests before running the MFD tests.

We used special spiral antennas coated with gold and silver hooked to an audio signal generator.

The Clairvoyant could see an energy line (actually a intensified energy) over and above the background energy field going from the transmitter to a gold sample and later a large silver sample. I then walked through the energy line and the clairvoyant saw the line disturbed and actually drop off. Timing measurements showed that it took the MFD about 45 seconds to reestablish the enegy line.

We also verified that as the sun got higher in the sky (original tests were done before sun up but still daylight the sun's energies blotted out the energy line.

We did extensive testing of various frequencies and found several that worked better than others.

Goldfinder
You are absolutely correct. This doesn't "prove" anything, as all the tests you did were subjective. You should ask Carl how to correctly perform double-blind testing, and then re-test the clairvoyant. You will be amazed at the difference.

The main problem with your testing procedure is that both the clairvoyant and the testers knew where the target was hidden. Even if the clairvoyant was not aware, subtle unconscious clues by the testers can give away useful information.

[hung]

You are absolutely correct. You should ask Carl how to correctly perform double-blind testing,

What ????????:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:




You will be amazed at the difference.

Yeah sure!!:lol::lol:

The main problem with your testing procedure is that both the clairvoyant and the testers knew where the target was hidden. Even if the clairvoyant was not aware, subtle unconscious clues by the testers can give away useful information.

Goldfinder, your research is correct 100%. I have experience on this and many info about this kind of tests you have performed. If you wish , just drop me a PM and I'll share my experiences.

Don't waste your time posting such complex matters for the kids here in the kindergarten because they will keep throwing 'smashed paper balls' in your face.

Regards.

[Theseus]

Don't waste your time posting such complex matters for the kids here in the kindergarten because they will keep throwing 'smashed paper balls' in your face.

Regards.

:lol: The sand is full of heads buried in it. Why not another one? :D

[Qiaozhi]

Goldfinder, your research is correct 100%.
Some subjective testing took place under extremely non-rigorous conditions. You can hardly call this "research".

I have experience on this and many info about this kind of tests you have performed. If you wish , just drop me a PM and I'll share my experiences.
It is true. You do have many years of experience - unsuccessfully attempting to prove the reality of something that only exists in the mind.

Don't waste your time posting such complex matters for the kids here in the kindergarten ...
I can agree with the first part: "Don't waste your time".
Goldfinder is not likely to become one of your puppets. He has already stated: This will not "prove" anything to the skeptics but is interesting annectodal "evidence".
Note the word "anecdotal" -> Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity: the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy or untrue.

:lol: The sand is full of heads buried in it. Why not another one? :D
:lol: :lol: :lol: Hung's head has been buried in the sand for years, and unlikely to ever to see daylight again. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Max]

Or maybe... May the Swartz be with you:D.

Or maybe was the Fart ? :rolleyes:

[Steve in MS]

This will not "prove" anything to the skeptics but is interesting annectodal "evidence".

Several years ago I did extensive testing of the MFD phenomena using a clairvoyant that could see the energies on a different dimension. I tested the clairvoyant on quite a number of other energy tests before running the MFD tests.

We used special spiral antennas coated with gold and silver hooked to an audio signal generator.

The Clairvoyant could see an energy line (actually a intensified energy) over and above the background energy field going from the transmitter to a gold sample and later a large silver sample. I then walked through the energy line and the clairvoyant saw the line disturbed and actually drop off. Timing measurements showed that it took the MFD about 45 seconds to reestablish the enegy line.

We also verified that as the sun got higher in the sky (original tests were done before sun up but still daylight the sun's energies blotted out the energy line.

We did extensive testing of various frequencies and found several that worked better than others.

Goldfinder

How can one prove what the clairvoyant sees or doesn't see:D.

[Qiaozhi]

How can one prove what the clairvoyant sees or doesn't see:D.
You cannot. But double-blind testing will reveal whether the results are real or false.