vlf

[Mike(Mont)]

www.mwlist.org/vlf.php

[Geo]

Very interesting site.

Thanks

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, the trick is to find a station that is operating consistently. Of course they all shut down for maintenance from time to time but there is something I haven't figured out on some of the stations that would appear to have a strong signal and yet they seem to be on the blink. I read about it somewhere they go out of phase in various areas surprisingly sometimes if they are nearby but I don't think there is any way to calculate which station will work consistently other than to try it out, and even then there are no guarantees, but that just shows that i don't know. :lol:.

[Mike(Mont)]

And I'm not even talking about atmospheric conditions.

[Mike(Mont)]

I have a SuperSID monitor. It comes with software but I like the Spectrum Labs because you can get finer detail. I guess it depends on what wave band you are working in, but for the VLF below about 45 kHz you can see what is happening in your area. Now maybe there is other software for higher frequencies, I don't know.

[daryo]

www.mwlist.org/vlf.php


can you tell me : is the range of 30hz frequency good for treasure hunting ?(by metal detector-EM or any type of LRLs )
if used and will be good , what is it advantage from higher range of frecuency ?(20 khz)
if not ,where is used this range ? (which applications)
you know vlf means very low frequency , this is start from khz or hz ?
thank you

[Mike(Mont)]

Sorry, I am not qualified to give any advice for you. There are some projects on the forum and they can help you.

[Mike(Mont)]

I probably didn't explain this very well. If you do not know what you are doing it is best to build a project that has already been tested and shown to work. Some frequencies do not work in certain areas.

[WM6]

can you tell me : is the range of 30hz frequency good for treasure hunting ?(by metal detector-EM or any type of LRLs )
if used and will be good , what is it advantage from higher range of frecuency ?(20 khz)
if not ,where is used this range ? (which applications)
you know vlf means very low frequency , this is start from khz or hz ?
thank you

Using 30Hz as working frequency, you will face with interference problems of mains power line (60Hz in USA 50Hz in EU).

Above 20kHz skin effect phenomenon begin.

VLF range is between 3kHz and 30kHz.

Probably you need ULF (range between 300Hz and 3kHz), then try with frequencies between 600 and 800Hz and simple Wheatstone bridge solutions.

[daryo]

Sorry, I am not qualified to give any advice for you. There are some projects on the forum and they can help you.
thank you

I probably didn't explain this very well. If you do not know what you are doing it is best to build a project that has already been tested and shown to work. Some frequencies do not work in certain areas.
thanks , one of my friends told me about a device that can work at range of 30hz to 20khz frequency ,but i did not know what is it means really but i think frequency not is everything while looking for ancient metals

Using 30Hz as working frequency, you will face with interference problems of mains power line (60Hz in USA 50Hz in EU).

Above 20kHz skin effect phenomenon begin.

VLF range is between 3kHz and 30kHz.

Probably you need ULF (range between 300Hz and 3kHz), then try with frequencies between 600 and 800Hz and simple Wheatstone bridge solutions.
thank you so much ,i did not know the frequency is different at countries and some of them not working at other countries , i was thinking to find a proper range of frequency for finding ancient gold ,but maybe never have success by my opinion about find freq :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, a 10 kHz - 30 kHz receiver is supposed to work in conjunction with the AM radio band. This is along the lines of the Gold Gun but I have no experience with that design. I think some of the designs on the forum are similar to the Gold Gun. As I recall you can get about 100 feet range (30 meters) on a large target or ore body if you have an AM radio station nearby.

[WM6]

Gold Gun is one of rare LRL design posted on this forum with real detecting potential.
Not on kilometers, but on decent detecting distance.

Probably there are a couple reasons why builders are not satisfied with GG results.
One is bad tunning procedure. Another one, even more important, is wrong detecting approach.

GG working in reflective mode should never be directed to signal source (transmitter) but always at 90° angle regarding signal source direction:

http://i64.tinypic.com/242yj5g.jpg

[Mike(Mont)]

I do not agree that the target creates a reflection. It is an emission at a different frequency that creates a magnetic field around the target.

[WM6]

When we talk about "magnetic field" zone, we talk about near field region of coil (or antenna), in fact reactive part of near field, where primary changeable magnetic field (magnetic induction) act. Reactive part of near field is effective region of metal detectors, and, as we know, pretty limited in effective distance.

All other field (after transition zone) is far field, where magnetic induction caused by changeable magnetic field, disappear. In far field region we can count only on resonance or on reflexion.

To get resonance with target at 30kHz (about GG working frequency) we need substantial part of Lambda (wavelength - which is here about 10km). At 30kHz we can get useful resonance (mean: re-radiated energy) with objects like underground cables, metallic pipes and alike. A hoard of coins, golden statue, etc. cannot resonate at such big wavelength.

So, using GG to detect something at say 5m, forget on magnetic field (magnetic induction) and forget on resonance. The only way is reflexive way (as per drawing above).

Without understanding how coil (which is sort of radiating antenna) works in near and far field region, proper use of devices like GG is impossible:

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/radiofrequencyradiation/electromagnetic_fieldmemo/electromagnetic.html

[Mike(Mont)]

The magnetic field that develops around the target acts like a loudspeaker but this is not instantaneous.

[WM6]

The magnetic field that develops around the target acts like a loudspeaker but this is not instantaneous.

In reactive near field region - mean in region of conventional metal detector, where magnetic induction happen.

If you need known comparison it works like transformer (so: TX coil as transformer primary windings, eddy current induced in target as secondary windings and RX coil as second secondary windings which sense targets eddy current load). In reactive near field region is is all about magnetic induction. All magnetic induction phenomenon can be presented as transformer equivalent.

But GG work is not based on magnetic induction, it is based on radio wave transmission - something different.

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, you are f'ing clueless.

[Mike(Mont)]

They say you can tell when a lawyer is lying--whenever his lips are moving. I heard the other day 70% of everything that people post on the internet is false. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B.S. No, this isn't a joke.

[Carl-NC]

Yeah, you are f'ing clueless.

Mike, what if WM6 is completely right?

[Mike(Mont)]

First off, I don't believe anyone's identity on the forums. I've said this before I think about half the posters are just one or two skeptics and all their alias identities. Whatever the case, he would be contradicting himself. First he says no LRL can possibly work then he says the Gold Gun works after I mention it. Then on another thread he praises some frequency generator on a swivel handle--well, that's got to be sarcasm. The skeptic way is such a waste of a good mind. Something really bothers me about skeptics. I really want to help them, but I know some things are near to impossible. So I have to ask the question "Why are they here?" It's not for the good of mankind. It's gotta be some personal motive and we all have heard "follow the money". Most people are here because they love LRL's. The root of the word amateur, amo amare, means to love. As fora skeptic being right when they claim no LRL can possibly work, well all I can say is B.S.

[FrancoItaly]

I agree with Mike, this forum is open to all and rightly so, but I feel wrong and unjust that a member would arrogate to himself the right to judge what is true and what is false, confusing those who approach the forum for the first time and calling liars or, at best, dreamers other forum members. Certainly there are also economic interests in the LRLs world, people who use the forum as a showcase, but I hope that the members of this forum are able to judge well.

[WM6]

First he says no LRL can possibly work then he says the Gold Gun works after I mention it.



You should read more carefully. There was no "after I mention it". You can read different old thread here, where I, not only once, long ago, promote Gold Gun possibilities to detect at some longer distance than metal detectors and propose members to build it. Certainly GG cannot detect something at kilometers nor even couple of 10 meters. Properly build, tuned and used, GG can work as simplified (known and patented long ago) pipe locater (pretty deep on bigger target). If such locater is for someone LRL, then it is LRL. I left this clasification to others. In comparison to mineoros, rangertell etc. crap, GG is real LRL, cause all those commercial creations are all anti-LRL.

Reading members questions and their private massages asking about different electronic module solution I only trying to help with simple electronic design, to answer such question and to give members some ideas to play with electronic. I never argued such proposal as working LRL (maybe sometimes when we are joking - to not be to serious through life).



but I feel wrong and unjust that a member would arrogate to himself the right to judge what is true and what is false,



Franco, I feel wrong too, when someone of LRL believers take to himself right to judge what is true and what is false, without proper argumentation and refusing to accept simple technical explanation.

To be believer, does not mean that: faith=right.

If someone is blind believer, those are blind for possible way to real LRL too. So be real and cooperate with everyone willingly to cooperate, no matter skeptic or believer.

[Mike(Mont)]

Like I said , take away the B.S. and there ain't nothing left...

[WM6]

Like I said , take away the B.S. and there ain't nothing left...

I am sorry, if you feel so with your projects.

Anyway, don't lost hope, maybe someday you got insight instead of constant out-sight.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi WM6,

The situation is this: I and other members have built LRL and affirm that work, You've built no LRL and claims that can not work and then we fail or are dreamers. Now I ask you, there are things that science still does not know or can not explain?

Best regards

[Geo]

Hi WM6,

The situation is this: I and other members have built LRL and affirm that work, You've built no LRL and claims that can not work and then we fail or are dreamers. Now I ask you, there are things that science still does not know or can not explain?

Best regards


Calm.........:cool:
:cheers:

[Mike(Mont)]

Like I said, at least for the frequency discriminators the magnetic field surrounding the target acts like a loudspeaker. In effect it is a larger antenna due to the pulsing field. This is not strictly reflection and the target has to be excited before this happens, and this is a slow build-up. Of course there is a lot more to this energy pulse and the information it carries.

[UltraLRL]

Like I said, at least for the frequency discriminators the magnetic field surrounding the target acts like a loudspeaker. .

The magnetic field surrounding target acts like a loudspeaker??

Mike,Could you explain more?? I'm really confused!:nerd:

[Mike(Mont)]

Sorry, I am not an electronics engineer. My guess it is a little bit similar to the energy-sucking antenna of Tesla. I know the article is just theory and pipe dreaming, but what you see is a small "antenna" can act big. The magnetic field is bigger than the object.


www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html

[UltraLRL]

www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html

topic is about 'Energy-sucking' Radio Antennas.
http://amasci.com/graphics/dp-absb2.gif

But Resonant absorber ONLY absorb certain frequency.

for LRLs, the frequency of Buried metal (Like Gold,Silver,...) depend on many factors Like:
Size
Shape
Alloy Composition
Depth
Terrain (Soil Type)
Humidity
Earth magnetic field strength
.
.
.
and so on.

Gold Alloy Composition:
http://www.totalmateria.com/images/Articles/ktn/Fig230_1.jpg


So the EXACT resonant frequency variation is TOO MUCH! and if use a fixed frequency (like 5Khz For Gold) it cause diversion (Reflection)!

How do you want to determine the exact resonance frequency??

[Mike(Mont)]

Same way the metal detector designers do--steal it and go from there and find out what works and shelve the rest (Got a BIG shelf. :lol:) Yeah, i don't buy into that different alloy thing. Like Dell Winders says, gold is gold. Now there probably is a difference between raw gold and refined gold. The pure gold, especially the electroplate easily peels off and enters the soil. Those gold nanorods have 14 times more diamagnetic properties and create a much stronger signal.

[UltraLRL]

Same way the metal detector designers do

what's happening in resonant absorber is completely difference from metal detectors!

There is nothing to say about, Just Good Luck:thumb:

[Mike(Mont)]

Not absorption, it's the inverse of it.

BTW, this is not the article I got my info from. I'm not going to post it and be "put on trial".

[reza vir]

I get this gold I do not have specific frequency will change in size and in different locations by testing with a device :|