Frequency discriminator and all-electronic receiver

[Mike(Mont)]

Been working on this almost everyday since last Summer. I don't claim it to be my design but the majority of the parts are of my doing. I've streamlined some things and cut out the fat--stuff that is not really of much use. The idea is to keep the price under $1000 for the system. I've got a working model but it's held together with rubber bands in a cardboard box. :lol: So I need to get an enclosure, etc. but my problem is I can't stop working on it. I thought for a while I was going to stop, but not the case. So the journey continues. Kind of a love-hate deal here. I love to make improvements but i hate to not have it done. At least I think i do. Hell, i don't know anymore. Bordering on obsession. i ain't crazy, i don't think, but maybe i am. :lol::razz:;) Some day I will commit to the final version. I hope.

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, I came back to my senses and decided I'm not going to pursue that tangent I almost flew out on yesterday. It would have cost more money and not much if anything to show for it. So for now unless I go temporarily insane I won't be messing with any more changes to the basic design. But never say never. :lol: And besides, I have other stuff I feel is going to be necessary to make the thing marketable if I go that route.

[Mike(Mont)]

I just bumped the accuracy of this thing up a whole 'nother level. I could say it's just because of Winter conditions but that's not the case because i was using it, then made the changes and the improvement was immediate. Well, I've said that before about a few hundred times. :lol: But that's mostly been with L-rods which are so hard to accurately analyze and evaluate because it's mainly operator skill. There's some operator skill involved with the electronic receiver, but it's not such a main factor. So I'm saying it is a big improvement. Well, still have to get it out and find some real targets before I crow too much (or is it EAT crow? :lol:). That's months away. Hurry up Spring!!!

[Mike(Mont)]

If this holds up I don't think L-rods will be of much use. i don't know for sure how it will act when the thunderstorms return. I've always noticed better locating conditions in the Winter months. Don't know if I can wait that long. :help:

[Mike(Mont)]

I've been flop-flopping like a fish out of water over the receiver antenna. As much as I like the litz wire loop antenna, I found it easier to house the ferrite rod so for now I am building with the ferrite rod and see how I like it. I don't know, I guess I should build both types and then compare them side-by-side. They both work fine but I want whichever looks nicer.

[Mike(Mont)]

It's not as pretty as i would like, but it works better than I expected. The receiver antenna is a pistol type design made with PVC fittings. I want to find some different parts just to make it look nicer. But I am very pleased so far and it makes it much easier to use and point now--I originally had it in a thin cardboard cracker box, very floppy. :lol: This is getting darned close to completion. It's been a lot of purgatory time, but it has become a part of me--kinda fallen in love with it. :) I plan to put the receiver electronics is a box and hang it from my belt. Shouldn't be too much bigger than an old transistor radio. Of course the transmitter sets on the ground.

[folharin]

Good luck with your project expect good results

[Mike(Mont)]

Thank you very much. I've been using it in my yard on a practice target and most days it has been working very well. Some days with the big solar flares it doesn't lock on to the target as well, or takes longer time. What i am finding out is pretty much everything Dell Winders talked about. It's so much harder to see that with just a set of L-rods.

I know with L-rods I would get a signal line, but actually I know now it was not the exact line. As I got near the target i would notice I had to move over one way or the other. With the electronic receiver I can see immediately if I am on the line or not. And many times it is off some, especially during the bad conditions but also within the first few minutes. It just takes a while to lock on, usually about three to five minutes. this is one of the main reasons I tell people the hand-held frequency discriminators can't be expected to work well or maybe not at all.

[Mike(Mont)]

I have a few loose ends to tie like the enclosures and the transmitter antenna coil former, but everything major has been worked out. I'd like to say "It's done!" but I know all the small details are going to take some time to finish, like a few weeks at the pace I am going. I know there is always hidden stuff that pops up when least expected. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I feel very much relieved like i got the monkey off my back. I don't know if if you can feel that sigh of relief. Feels good. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Disregard the last post. I am not done just yet! :lol: So i will build and test it today.

[Mike(Mont)]

Torn between two lovers...

My head is spinning right now. On one side the ferrite rod works great for nulling and has more power, on the other side the loop antenna works great straight on and has much less chance of breaking if dropped. I like the ferrite rod better. Decisions, decisions. :shrug::barf:

[Mike(Mont)]

After a rough night of trying to "sleep on it" i have decided to go with the loop antenna. It points better and is more durable. Well, at least for now. :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

I'm going to change my wording and say "It's undone!" Kinda like the Unbirthday on Alice in Wonderland. And probably very close to the truth! :lol: The more I work on it, the better I like it. Why should I stop now? It seems just about every day I come up with another improvement and I guess i just need to "let the fever run its course". And it's burning right now.

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, I am here today to attest to the fact that bias and ego can really affect a person's judgement. It is so easy to let it creep into your work. I've been through many trials and tribulations or what refer to as purgatory time over the receiver coil I'm trying to get right. Every time I think i have it right, after much testing if find some aspect that is just not good enough. My latest "find" is that the air loop coil I thought was so good turns out it just does not work well out on the edges of the search zone. I came up with my version of a Chinese proverb: "Man who pats self on the back ends up with broken arm." :lol:

Anyway, i went back through most on my designs trying to find "something". So now I'm back working on a spiral coil. i had tried one before and thought it was too weak, but it does work. So I need to work with it and find out more about it. I'm just so slow. I usually take a whole 24 hours to be able to analyse the results, and I wake up the next morning with an understanding. It's getting there but it sure is slow. Like they say "Love is patient."

[Mike(Mont)]

I don't know anything about spiral coils. I guess I'll just have to build a few and do some testing to see what I like. Think I'll use some bell wire with the plastic insulation because it looks to be easier to work with than magnet wire. But I suppose I'll have to use that, too.

[Mike(Mont)]

"I have not failed--I have just found ten-thousand ways that don't work."
I really dislike saying that because it sure sounds like an excuse. But on the other hand you gotta keep trying. You have to grab for it--it's not going to fall into you lap. I tried the bell wire for spiral coil. It was my worst attempt--but I learned from it. Bad part is I have a ways to go but at least I have a direction to head towards.

[Mike(Mont)]

More learning as I go. I have come to realize the PVC housing is causing some issues. So i am focused on that area for now.

[Mike(Mont)]

And the winner is...well I don't have a winner but I'm back using the ferrite rod. And I am learning a few more things about it. It definitely outperforms the air loop coil when nulling. So i plan to concentrate in this area. Probably going to try a different rod and different housing. I don't know if i am ever going to "finish" this project. :barf: Makes me sick thinking about all the possibilities, much worse than going with my wife shopping for a pair of shoes. She looks at three-hundred pair and doesn't buy any.:lol:

[WM6]

Fight, don't give away.

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, I guess I'll have to find a fortune first before anyone believes it's worth more than a hill of beans, aka a pile of $#!+. As i like to say "It all looks good on paper." :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

At one time I wanted to call it the Exterminator because i thought it would "eliminate skeptics on sight". But I know "You can't kill a bad weed." :nono: Just wishful thinking on my part. No amount of proof is sufficient. Even if they saw it with their own eyes they would assume some sort of trickery. Even i question it myself. :shrug:

[WM6]

As you say: "I have not failed--I have just found ten-thousand ways that don't work."

But every-time we have "not" failed, we learn something new too, so trend goes positive.

[Mike(Mont)]

Then I've learned a hell of a lot! :lol: Unfortunately most of it has been from the school of hard knocks. Maybe this is just what I need--work until I am so sick of it I can't stand to work on it any more. Then it will be done. :cheers: Like they say about drinking alcohol, Know when to say "When". Never learned either lesson. :lol:

Actually the old saying about it's darkest just before dawn--I am hoping that holds true as I know it has many times in the past. But damn, I just can't let go yet. I got more parts on order. :lol::help:

[Mike(Mont)]

Flip-flop baby, like a fish out of the water...

Think i should write a song about me. :lol:

So anybody want to guess? Yeah, the air loop coil...again!!!! Damn, i just went and bought some other parts. Well, i need to just learn my lesson. I know what the problem was--interference and impatience. Sometimes my personal scale leans a little more towards the Cain side instead of the Abel side. Either that or I really am crazy or just a little schizophrenic. :lol: Well, I doubt anybody cares. :lol: So yeah, I'm feeling good. I'm sittin' on top of the world. :cheers: At least for now. :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

Also I applied some of the different settings I have been experimenting with. Some are lengthy to explain, but one was to add more TX power and less Rx gain.

[Mike(Mont)]

Getting pretty tired of saying this thing ain't done. I bet a few people are tired of hearing me say it. :lol: For now i have halted any further research work on it, but by now most people know I have a hard time holding to that. Again, I still have work to do on the housing, etc. If you recall Ferrari didn't care much of anything about the car body. To him is was just a cover to protect the engine from the weather. Compare that to the phony LRL's with the fancy Star Wars case. More money spent on the case than on the electronics. :lol::lol::lol::lol: Oh yeah, almost forgot, I have to test it in the field. Just a minor detail. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwgGuadsqyo

[WM6]

Assume, that you didn't try to put some sort of calculator on it yet?

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, I am trying to keep it simple. :lol: And honest...NO SUCKER BAIT.

[Mike(Mont)]

Ask and it shall be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

They never said when, only that it will.

Off topic, saw the first butterfly this year today. Unreal it is so early in the season.

[Mike(Mont)]

I know it's an old cliche, but sometimes I have a hard time not believing this is all a miracle. Or as Einstein said "Either there are no miracles or everything is a miracle."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrxA4DcQw-Q

[Mike(Mont)]

I'm going to sign off for now. Hopefully when i get back I'll have something complete. Yeah, I know, wishful thinking, but that's the plan. ~~Later

[WM6]

Hopefully when i get back I'll have something complete.



Good mantra.

All the best on your long range voyage.

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, back as usual to my old ways...flip-flop. :barf: I got a longer ferrite rod and at least for now it's my favorite toy. Will it hold up? I don't know, but it seems to be a pretty solid performer even though i do like the air loop coil I have been using. So I guess I will use this one for a few days and see what I think. Right now I think it pulls in the signal a little bit better. Works good on the edges of the search field. It costs quite a bit more and probably a little more fragile. And i need to figure out what housing I will use. I think it's Mercedes-Benz slogan "Only the best." That's what i want...I mean the best, not the car.

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, I am pleased with this one. It grabs the signal faster (lock-on). Now this might just be due to atmospheric conditions which are very good today. Time will tell. For me, finding a new housing is unpleasant work, but it won't fit in the PVC I was using.

[Mike(Mont)]

And the winner is...Oh, you thought I was going to say flip-flop again, didn't you? Well, I flipped but I didn't flop this time. I don't know what caused me to miss my test target but I did. So I went back to the air loop coil and I didn't like it. I checked the Space weather website looking for some interference but didn't find any. All i can think is the wind was a bit gusty. I don't know. I read in "The Odic Force" that the energy coming off the target appears as a flame to sensitives and it can be blown around by the wind. Whatever caused it I don't know but it gave me the chance to retry to old coil--sort of a buyer's remorse--and I decided I made the right choice to go with the ferrite rod.

[Mike(Mont)]

The proton monitor was off and on. I don't know what that was about.

One more possibility I thought was conditions are too good and the transmitter was locking on to distant, long-time-buried targets. The missed target was on the edge of the search pattern and I know the signal is weaker there. But I haven't been having a problem with the ferrite rod. This is why I spend several days trying out a new configuration. You can't just accept one quick test and pronounce it victorious. I've been pleased with it so far and this really is the first time I missed a test target in a few days of testing. Anybody who expects 100% accuracy is going to be disappointed or delusional. If you think you are on secure ground, be ready to fall.

[Mike(Mont)]

We have rain forecast. Maybe there is some electric activity in the weather front air. Also the ground is dry and dusty.

[Mike(Mont)]

I got out about sunset and conditions were back to normal. I did see there was some sort of disturbance today.

[Mike(Mont)]

Probably back in the 1960's I saw a cartoon where there was a giant computer and a bunch of scientists in their white lab coats scratching their heads because it wasn't working. Along comes the janitor sweeping the floor and he looks down and sees the computer is unplugged--no power! :lol:

Well, I just remembered this morning i had changed my power supply for the receiver and had not checked the battery voltage in the past ten days. Sure enough the battery is low. Lesson learned. Counterfeit batteries are everywhere, big business. And i knew this.

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, no one can accuse me of not putting it out there warts and all. Sometimes I get brain fade--okay MOST of the time. :lol: Lucky this isn't bomb making or I'd certainly be dead by now.

I'm just a hopeless tinkerer. I can't help myself. I am always trying to change something or other. Not too scientific about it. I've been trying to keep the power level down as low as possible and finally it occurred to me I need more power--duh!!!! Maybe I need to put a sticker on my forehead or something to remind me. Also probably going with a regulated power supply for the receiver.

BTW, here's my Cheshire Cat impersonation. :D Well, back "through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole I go"...

[Mike(Mont)]

I guess you would call this an off-topic post seeing how this is the All Electronic LRL's page. Just a warning. Don't read this if you are offended by L-rods or people who use them. :lol:

I got out the old L-rods this morning. Haven't used them in months. I don't recall the last time that happened--more than ten years ago. Anyway, I liked it. I had a belt receiver of sorts from an old MFD unit and i was using the transmitter for my latest All Electronic LRL. WOW, the rods were very lively. This just inspired me to add the rods to the total system. So I will see what happens. I have to admit the rods hold a dear place in my heart. I just love that feeling when I cross the discriminated signal line. Okay, so much for the sappy PDA stuff. :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

For those who don't know.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=PDA

[Qiaozhi]

For those who don't know.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=PDA (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=PDA)
And there was me thinking that a PDA was a "Personal Digital Assistant". :nerd:
One day there will be Hubots.
http://www.personasynthetics.com/

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, I looked up PDA to make sure I had it right when I noticed your definition. That's when I figured some people might not understand as I didn't know it had other meanings.

As for hubots, well when they can use an L-rod (converse with the universe) then that would be something. I suppose it is not too far away time wise. Probably could do it now.

I consider it an absolute insult to say L-rod users are "Born that way". Now skeptics, maybe so. :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

That was a joke if you didn't get it. Skeptics are made just like L-rod users. It's just a Hell of a lot easier to become a skeptic. :lol:

As for L-rods, I can see why Dell Winders went with them. You can get more info and get it faster. But all that is under the huge assumption that you can use them in an unbiased manner. In other words you have to be part Saint so as not to influence them. Of course that's why my mantra that you need SOME form of meditation, even something basic like yoga breathing. This is the main reason people fail--they can't just stay out of it. Enough on that issue.

So I am toying with the idea of a hybrid system. First you use the electronic receiver to find the discriminated signal line, THEN you use the L-rods to pinpoint the target along that line. It's a lot more reassuring than trying to find the line with the rods. And it's a lot faster to use the rods instead of having to move the transmitter to a new location, but that can still be done for those who have the L-rodphobia and skepticitis. Well, enough of my rambling--back "Through the looking glass". :D

[Qiaozhi]

That was a joke if you didn't get it. Skeptics are made just like L-rod users. It's just a Hell of a lot easier to become a skeptic. :lol:

As for L-rods, I can see why Dell Winders went with them. You can get more info and get it faster. But all that is under the huge assumption that you can use them in an unbiased manner. In other words you have to be part Saint so as not to influence them. Of course that's why my mantra that you need SOME form of meditation, even something basic like yoga breathing. This is the main reason people fail--they can't just stay out of it. Enough on that issue.

So I am toying with the idea of a hybrid system. First you use the electronic receiver to find the discriminated signal line, THEN you use the L-rods to pinpoint the target along that line. It's a lot more reassuring than trying to find the line with the rods. And it's a lot faster to use the rods instead of having to move the transmitter to a new location, but that can still be done for those who have the L-rodphobia and skepticitis. Well, enough of my rambling--back "Through the looking glass". :D
Of course you could just continue to use the time-honoured methods of self-delusion, wishful thinking and selective memory. :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

I have a few hours on the L-rod. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

I was watching the battery voltage on the receiver and when the battery got low the voltage (under load) dropped way down. Tried two different regulated power systems to maintain a steady voltage on the receiver but they both cause too much noise. So i just decided to go with a bigger battery. I call it cheap overkill.

[WM6]

Tried two different regulated power systems to maintain a steady voltage on the receiver but they both cause too much noise.


Did you tried to block such noise by adding block capacitor between regulator output and ground? Try different values between 22 and 100nF.

[Mike(Mont)]

Did you tried to block such noise by adding block capacitor between regulator output and ground? Try different values between 22 and 100nF.

WM6, thanks for your help. There are electrolytic capacitors that come off the hot lead to ground. They are bigger yet. I'm not very versed in electronics. If I get motivated I will read up on it. I think it says they run at 150kHz so I suspect the receiver is "receiving" that as a signal. The signal strength meter is at about 20%. Even so the receiver still detects a target signal but that has to have a bad effect overall. Well, it's okay, I know the battery works and the new one is still lightweight enough, about twice the capacity. Now i don't have to worry about it.

How goes your new device? I haven't started anything on that one yet. I do like some of your ideas and plan to work with them when I get over my obsession with this project.

[WM6]

How goes your new device? I haven't started anything on that one yet. I do like some of your ideas and plan to work with them when I get over my obsession with this project.

At the moment I am on other project agreed earlier with my friend.

Regarding mentioned anti-phase project, I decided to froze it and jump direct to some test and experiment with scalar waves. According some scientific papers main problem could be on receiver site, where as enough sensitive sensor appear to be so called "Josephson junction" which use superconductor in cryogenic environment - something hard to establish in amateur hobby conditions. So we need to find something as usable replacement for "Josephson junction" sensor. So a lot of test and experiments in near future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephson_effect

Excerpt from: The Interconnected Universe: Conceptual Foundations of Transdisciplinary Unified Theory [Ervin Laszlo]

http://i65.tinypic.com/xpriuf.jpg

[Mike(Mont)]

Dr. Konstantin Meyl has been doing research on scalar wave biological effects on cells and DNA.

www.meyl.eu/

[WM6]

Yes, Josephson junction in receiver is a mens (some sort of gateway) to convert scalar and vector potential back to electromagnetic radiation and signalizing it (by analog or digital measurement or by audio signal). But we need to overcome this complicated component cause it is unrealizable in amateur conditions. A lot of experiments and tests differents already existent ideas and solutions.

[Mike(Mont)]

I don't claim to understand it all, but today I was getting a weak response that wouldn't lock on so as a last resort I switched to a frequency I had shelved and BAM! I was hitting the test target. Yeah, even an old dog can learn new tricks. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, it really did happen I thought I was wrong but i wasn't. Problem is it took me about three weeks to figure that one out. :lol: If you quit learning you stagnate. I know plenty about that one, too. Sometimes just trying too hard is the wrong approach. I'm usually not too guilty on that count. But when i do I am good at it. :lol: I keep saying someday I will quit working on this and call it finished...or else I'll go crazy, whichever comes first. They say men are bad at making commitments. I never thought of myself that way but I guess I am making up for lost time. It's like I find myself making excuses for continuing to work on it. Some day I will get tired with it all. Hope it is soon. I just need to get out and make some finds. It's going to happen. I found some gold with the same type transmitter with an L-rod so I know it works. Actually what I have now is better.

[WM6]

Actually what I have now is better.

Good outcome. Don't change anything.

[Mike(Mont)]

I have been using a lower frequency for gold and it seems to lock on faster but on another thread I said it was almost instantaneous and lately this has not been the case. The other day it was about two minutes and today even longer, so maybe the cold weather is causing the longer times. I didn't time it but it had to be nearly five minutes this morning with temperature just above freezing. Anyway, I plan to work with this one for a few days to see how it holds up. So far i like it. Also I have been using the receiver antenna from two angles, 90 degrees, so i get nulling one way and the alarm tone from the other. They both point the same direction even if it is not on the correct line to the target. After a while I can tell when the nulling is on the target as it gets sharper edges to it.

[Mike(Mont)]

This is for a fresh dropped target. It occurred to me a long time buried target might give a quicker lock-on time.

[Mike(Mont)]

I can certainly understand why many of the LRL skeptics went crazy. A perfectionist has no place in the LRL field. You just have to accept that some things are out of your control. Like this morning I was getting lock-on times approaching five minutes. I went back out and just minutes ago I was getting nearly instantaneous lock-on times again--several in a row, not just some fluke. I was taught that the solar magnetic interference disrupts the signal line. Dell Winders said his best guess was protons. I just have to come to the reality that I can't be sure what causes it. Or like the billboard sign "My reality check bounced." :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

Here's a link that might bring you some sanity regarding interference.

www.hard-core-dx.com/solar/solar.html

[Mike(Mont)]

Back to longer time until lock-on again. In the past I have said when a coronal hole is facing earth there is some disruption. Well, there is a corona valley or trough facing earth today so "That's my story and I'm sticking to it." :lol: For whatever reason, it seems like middle of the day lately is not as good.

[Mike(Mont)]

I can certainly understand why many of the LRL skeptics went crazy. A perfectionist has no place in the LRL field. You just have to accept that some things are out of your control. Like this morning I was getting lock-on times approaching five minutes. I went back out and just minutes ago I was getting nearly instantaneous lock-on times again--several in a row, not just some fluke. I was taught that the solar magnetic interference disrupts the signal line. Dell Winders said his best guess was protons. I just have to come to the reality that I can't be sure what causes it. Or like the billboard sign "My reality check bounced." :lol:

CORRECTION: About eighteen years ago Dell Winders said his best guess for the cause of signal line interference was positive ions. I mistakenly said "protons". I'm not sure if he still holds that view or not. Best to put out a test target and see what happens.

[Mike(Mont)]

I don't have much to say these days. Some day I hope to have a "Ready-for-prime-time-viewing" unit. Right now it's still cardboard box, rubber bands, and tape. No, I don't have any hot glue. :lol: Well, it's back through the looking glass, and down the rabbit hole. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Crawled out of the rabbit hole for a little sunshine. Been watching the GOES Magnetometer this morning. While this is not actually related to the earth's field, it does give an indication that something might happen. And it did. Just got a shock wave hit here. Not too big but it hit and caused some disturbance. Well, going back down. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, no great earthquake or sonic blast today, just some minor buffeting of the magnetic field. Still going on last I checked but little effect on locating conditions.

[Mike(Mont)]

The earth's field is still bouncing around this morning, a bit stronger than yesterday. Haven't tried any locating yet so I don't know if it is strong enough to affect things.

[Mike(Mont)]

Back out of the rabbit hole for a quick breath of fresh air. I got out the L-rods and it occurred to me how much my stress level has gone down since I quit the rods and have been using the electronic receiver. Those rods really are the MITAS (Medieval Implements of Torture And Superstition) and PITA (I think you know that one). Well, back through the looking glass I go. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, I'm actually trying to get a nice housing for the receiver antenna. i have one that works but I'm trying to make it whiner proof. BTW, this is worst part of the project for me. That's why I said I wish I had an investor so I could hire out the cosmetics part. Anybody got a spare hundred grand? :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

Oh please, somebody help me! My obsession is out of control...again! (expletive deleted). I must be part masochist because I do enjoy it at least at the start. But then I get into the muck too deep then I start regretting I ever got involved. :lol: So far this one is okay but all the flip-flopping I get really self-conscious about and it really feels like I am being pulled apart in all directions. Like I'd be better off if I had never even mentioned this project.

Anyway, I am working on the housing for the receiver antenna and that's when my troubles started, kinda like a fire getting out of control. But hopefully I will have it contained before the day is done. In the mean time...HELP! :lol:

[WM6]

Probably you need demagnetizer.

http://i64.tinypic.com/51q8ls.jpg

[Mike(Mont)]

Interference maker.

Was hoping for completion today but "Nothing is ever as easy as it first appears." Try more ideas tomorrow.

[Mike(Mont)]

For all you sadistic types, things are miserable for my project. So I hope that makes you feel better. :barf: It gave me a headache THIS BIG! And the solar magnetic activity the last couple of days has made it impossible to be doing any type of experimenting. Any results are suspect one way or the other, good or bad. I damaged the receiver antenna and for some crazy reason I opened up the can of worms and started TRYING to experiment on a different one. Even with the bad conditions I found I like the litz wire better than the magnet wire I have been using for the past couple of months. So I plan to re-wire my main squeeze and see what happens. That stuff costs about ten times more than it's worth--kinda like all the LRL stuff. :lol: BTW, I noticed today the solar magnetic activity is not as sharp or strong but it is more steady with longer periods.

[Mike(Mont)]

i think it was basketball great Michael Jordan who said "I succeed because I fail." meaning you can learn a lot from your failures. Well, I should be a f'ing genius by now. :lol: The catch is you gotta LEARN something when you fail. So I am trying to learn but I'm slow. Of course you have to realize you failed in the first place, and that doesn't happen all that often in the LRL world. My latest epiphany is that the antenna works a lot better when it is not housed. So now I build my new contraption--"a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to my door." :lol: Do I really appear to be crazy? Most crazy people think they are sane. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

It's always darkest just before dawn. And, Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find; Knock and it shall be opened unto you. All true words on this glorious day. I have some thanking to do on this one.

Oh man, I feel like I just got the monkey off of my back. I got the receiver antenna just about where I want it. Just need to re-route the wires slightly. Life is good! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27M6OvbGUkg

[WM6]

I got the receiver antenna just about where I want it. Just need to re-route the wires slightly. Life is good! :D



Congratulations.
Can you provide something like block schema, to get more idea what you are trying to construct?

[Mike(Mont)]

Sorry, not willing to give out details other than to say it is a frequency discriminator transmitter with amplifier and a receiver. It's probably similar to the pistol-type locators but obviously there are some big differences that allow the higher accuracy and much longer detection range. Most of the work I have been doing the last few months is with the receiver antenna. I'm pitifully slow and not skilled in electronics. Have to learn as I go or else go crazy, whichever comes first. :D

I'm sure not claiming this is perfect. Far from it and honestly very frustrating at times. I'm still in the learning curve as far as locating conditions that affect it. There's times it does not work right, or slow to lock-on to the target. I'm not even sure how well someone else could handle these issues. Like I've said about people not liking other people's kids and dogs, the same thing here--they might not like this one's "bad habits". The lofty goal of making it "whiner proof" is probably just a pipe dream. When you love something you accept the warts better. :lol: The get-rich-quick gold seekers are like manic depressant's or bipolar disorder--they are so hyped to find gold and when they fail all Hell breaks loose as they look for someone or some thing to blame.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2IWMRTyxBE0

[Mike(Mont)]

WM6, you might not understand. I have too much money and time invested in this project. Also I am not "trying" to build this. I've had a working model for several months. I spent months trying to make it better at the risk of losing my sanity, okay, what I have left of it. I don't have much work left to have it ready for showtime but I'm slow. When I first started this project last Summer I was in a big hurry to "get it done". Now I have lost much of that motivation. I don't want to hurry any more. Kinda like a politician, they say one wrong word and no one wants anything to do with them ever again. I just want this to be as good as possible because I am certain there will be some whiners. Even if it is a pipe dream I am trying to get it as close to "whiner proof" as possible. That's no easy task when the skeptics are circling around waiting to feed.

[WM6]

It is OK, I can understand Mike. My intention was good-willing. Maybe to discuss some problem in construction to help find proper solution for some of module together. With Block schema we discover main construction blocks only, without details (as you done by words: "transmitter with amplifier and a receiver" - only in drawing manner). Block schema is not a schematic with design details. You are very communicative in this thread and probably I got wrong impress, that you are asking for some cooperation in your research and development. So all is on you and I can easily respect your decision. Wish you all success with your project. This is not limited by fact, that I am a skeptic.

[Mike(Mont)]

WM6, no problem. Someday maybe you will see for yourself, see I speak the truth about the 99% giving the other 1% a bad name. :D

I was messing with the controls the last couple of days and I found I needed to back off a bit (1 k ohms) on the detection alarm. I had it set to a hair trigger and as a result it was giving me false responses during the first few minutes until the line got fully developed, and sometimes even after that. Of course somewhere there is a point too far where the signal cannot break the threshold. So I need to work with that one a bit and I ran out of daylight. I'd work in the dark but the neighbors get all freaked out when they see the torchlight. So I don't want to stress them any more than they already are.

[Mike(Mont)]

Did a bit more testing this morning. Yes, it is much better with the reduced setting on the detection alarm. I was able to cut it back quite a ways and still hit the target. There is a fair amount of room there for adjustment before it dies out. And the best part, no waiting for the line to overpower the fringe/junk signals. That alone is worth a huge amount to me as i dislike waiting and it helps to work towards the goal of getting it whiner proof. :D One step at a time.

So I still don't know how all this will play out in the field on very distant/deep targets. Might be that I have to raise the level some, but the plan is to check first with the lowered level. I need a larger area for testing the distant targets. My yard is about one-hundred feet (33 meters) and I am using the lowest power level. So according to the inverse square rule I should be able to get a minimum of 600 feet at 35 times the power (square root is about 6) I am using now but no bets on that one. I suspect a small target will be much less due to interference, other metals in the ground, atmospheric conditions, etc.

[Mike(Mont)]

It's official--testing is over...at least for today...again. :lol: WOW! I am really liking this now. Please somebody tell me this is not a dream. I don't know, maybe it's just good conditions today. This is the best I have had it working. No, it's still not 100% whiner proof, and i don't expect it will ever be so long as there are skeptics--always was and always will be. Well, miracles do happen and I'm due for one about now. Think it just happened. :D The miracle has little to do with the locator itself, although I wouldn't doubt it is miraculous, it's just a miracle my brain is working good enough to figure things out. :lol:

[WM6]

I hope that miracle is repeatable.

[Mike(Mont)]

You mean repeatable in the presence of a skeptic so they admit it works? Now that really would be a miracle. :D

[WM6]

Don't make me desperate, I saw a rainbow on the horizon, and now, I can not touch it anymore.

[Mike(Mont)]

Like the Bob Dylan song, "Don't you understand? It's not my problem." Only one other person has even seen it work. I've told other people and no one is even interested in seeing it. That's why on another forum I mentioned the fable of Jack and the Beanstock. He brought home the magic seeds he had traded for the family cow and his mother thought they were worthless and threw them out the window. Next day jack climbed the stalk and brought back a bag of gold, then a chicken that laid golden eggs, then a golden harp. They got rich from selling the golden eggs and he married a great princess and they lived happily ever after. :D And yes, I believe in miracles, but I know miracles are only an explanation for what people find unbelievable. Just like the skeptic admitting it works--I find that unbelievable. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

WM6, I'm sure you think i am some idiot living in a faery tale world. That's okay, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I'm "tough enough to wear pink" as they say. (Not really!) I've been at this locating since the late 1970's with untold hours. It's my passion and this latest project has certainly become an obsession. I've been on the forums since 1996 and I witness the skeptics EVERY day since. I was raised by a skeptic and yes, many are perfectionists. I decided I didn't want to be a perfectionist decades ago. Like the saying "Perfectionism is paralysis." pretty well sums it up. i might add perfectionists can never be happy with their addiction. And lately with this project I find myself migrating back to that direction and it makes me sick. (puke icon here) That's why I believe more in the faery tales than any in skeptic ever admitting that an LRL works. Their brain cannot handle any imperfections like when locating conditions are not good and the device does not work right. It's the "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality that is borderline diabolical. And I'm being nice here because I don't really think it is borderline at all. It's a sickness, a mental illness. As much as I like to say it's not my problem, no question is does affect me. Very disturbing at times. I really want to help but I don't know how. Maybe I should have become a psychiatrist like my Aunt told me.

[Mike(Mont)]

Look, I'm sorry I got suckered into this skeptic sickness. :barf: I'll do my best to avoid/ignore anything to do with it. What a waste of precious time. I'm going back "through the looking glass" and down the rabbit hole and won't be back for some time if I come back at all.

[WM6]

WM6, I'm sure you think i am some idiot living in a faery tale world. That's okay, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I'm "tough enough to wear pink" as they say. (Not really!) I've been at this locating since the late 1970's with untold hours. It's my passion and this latest project has certainly become an obsession. I've been on the forums since 1996 and I witness the skeptics EVERY day since. I was raised by a skeptic and yes, many are perfectionists. I decided I didn't want to be a perfectionist decades ago. Like the saying "Perfectionism is paralysis." pretty well sums it up. i might add perfectionists can never be happy with their addiction. And lately with this project I find myself migrating back to that direction and it makes me sick. (puke icon here) That's why I believe more in the faery tales than any in skeptic ever admitting that an LRL works. Their brain cannot handle any imperfections like when locating conditions are not good and the device does not work right. It's the "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality that is borderline diabolical. And I'm being nice here because I don't really think it is borderline at all. It's a sickness, a mental illness. As much as I like to say it's not my problem, no question is does affect me. Very disturbing at times. I really want to help but I don't know how. Maybe I should have become a psychiatrist like my Aunt told me.

I can easily to agree with you. I can see you are capable to think over barriers. This mean more freedom for your soul to go behind and over some phenomenon. At the same time, new unknown spaces, mean new unknown traps, for wishing souls. Allowing to fall in soul-trap lead to nowhere. So we need to teach ourself to avoid possible traps on our travel on other side of everyday thinking barriers.

We all, believers and skeptic, are here for the same thing. To find something over known barriers of given knowledge.

If blind believers are ready to believe that colorful rainbow grow up from nearby hill, without question asked, skeptic wish the same, but always tend to prove factual ground of their wishes.

At the end, blind believers, believe that rainbow grown out of nearby hill as of hard fact. On other side skeptic take a walk to nearby hill where rainbow seem grow up. Comming at that "growing point" of rainbow, skeptic realize, that wishes and reality, are not the same, cause rainbow escaped to the next hill and that all so called rainbow phenomenon, are well explainable by known physics.

Dreamworld is beautiful, factual world are sometimes crude in its reality. Everyone chose where to live. No choice is wrong, if individual remain in harmony with "sound of universe". Why?

Cause there are no fixed barriers between dream and factual worlds and todays dreams can become reality of tomorrow. If this happen, dreams are no more dreams, they become facts. Proven new facts.

We all are on the way to this new facts. If our approach are different, no problem, this mean only more possibilities to reach our goals, not less.

If our goal is common, despite different ways, then no one of us could be treated as idiot, or all of us are idiots. But in last case, our goal (to find way to remote detection), is idiotic too. Hope we all disagree with such claim.

So go ahead your way. Even, if it end up as wrong, all can be corrected in next life.

[goldfinder]

Hey Mike,
You have been patting yourself on the back for so long I would think your arm is permanently twisted.

So when are you going to unveil this thing you have been telling everyone is so wonderful?

Frankly, you sound like BS and Mirrors (that is "blue smoke and mirrors")...

I anticipate you are now going to sell this for some big amount now that your sales pitch is wearing thin...
Goldfinder

[Mike(Mont)]

Would you like some crackers and cheese with your whine?
I have made no definite decision to sell these. I've entertained the thought many times. Don't care to go into specifics, but they aren't idiot proof.

[Mike(Mont)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTPzP5Qq8q8

[WM6]

From romantic dreams to reality (using different dowsing rods):

https://youtu.be/aDHdqMlWEzQ

[Mike(Mont)]

Speaking of the absurd, never did care much for British humor. Reminds me of the Lucille Ball show--her absurdity was just embarrassing, it was so real.

[Mike(Mont)]

Got out the L-rods yesterday and hooked them up to some electronics. Had some success but not quite what I wanted. So I plan to work some more today if it doesn't rain too much.

Lately I have jokingly referred to these as MITAS which stands for Medieval Implements of Torture And Superstition. Yeah, at times even I think that is the truth. :lol: I'm certain many others feel the same. I've told people more times some form of meditation is essential. Nobody wants to hear that so very few ever get it. All the instructions say to keep your focus on the rods. I think this is a big mistake. I find a spot out ahead to watch so i am not staring at the rods. I compare it to pulling your head up to watch a gold ball. You are not supposed to peek. When the rods move, you will know it. Well, whatever. Like Cool Hand Luke "Some men you just can't reach...which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it..."

[WM6]

I've told people more times some form of meditation is essential. Nobody wants to hear that so very few ever get it. All the instructions say to keep your focus on the rods. I think this is a big mistake. I find a spot out ahead to watch so i am not staring at the rods. I compare it to pulling your head up to watch a gold ball. You are not supposed to peek. When the rods move, you will know it.

Probably this is something of personal preference.
Someone can go in extra-sensing status by using simple wooden dowsing rod and other need colorful TFT display to reach deeper insight or even scientific calculator with graphic functions. People and songs are of different GMO.

[Mike(Mont)]

Been working on my own weight cancelling device to use with the electronic receiver (no L-rods needed). I have something that definitely works but I don't know if it is going to be accurate in real conditions, i.e. large, long-time-buried targets. Anybody got a large cache of buried gold they would let me check out? Didn't think so. :lol: Well, I guess it's going to have to be the school of hard knocks and digging. :shrug: :barf:

[Mike(Mont)]

Basically I take a frequency generator and shift the frequency a bit and set it on the signal line. This is basically what an older Omnitron Weight Chek does only I don't use any L-rods. When there is enough shift, it will push the signal line away (using the electronic receiver). So the idea is a larger target should require more shift. Well, at least it all looks good on paper. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

I caught myself being impatient, well okay I'm ALWAYS impatient and I know better, but..., this one really had a bad effect on my locating testing. It's simple, after you locate the target, turn off the transmitter for a few minutes before you do another test. Otherwise the last signal line will make for confusion. It will interfere and very little rhyme or reason about how it will affect the next test. I've seen it when I tossed the test target and it ended up on the same previous line. You would think it would reinforce the line and be easy to detect. Not so, the line seems to be repelled. So anyway, I hope this helps your testing and locating unless you are a miserable skeptic, then it doesn't matter anyway. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Frustrated lately with long waiting times. I was starting to get conditioned to not expecting to find the target. Man, that's depressing! This morning I missed the test target completely while experimenting with a different frequency. I don't know what it was locking on to but it sure wasn't the test target. So for me, when all else fails, go back to what worked before. I guess I need to add that to my motto "Nothing is ever as easy as it first appears." Well anyway, I got it working now. Life is good. Take me off suicide watch. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Haven't posted on this for a while for good reason. Stressed out to the max and no end in sight. And my cancer surgeries are imminent which doesn't help my mental state and finances. This project has been stalled for nearly a year and my motivation/enthusiasm level is not good. Up one day, down the next and it's all taking a toll on my body. Add to this my worries about someone getting electrocuted from this thing--very high voltage and it is not something i want on my conscience. I was half joking when i said I will send a pair of electricians high voltage gloves along with it, but that does no good if some child or senile citizen gets their hands on it.

[WM6]

Wish you best outcome with your surgery.

[Mike(Mont)]

Surgeries with an "s". Thanks. Yeah, one of these times I'll get the bad news that there's no more hope. Didn't like the look on the doctor's face this time and I don't know yet. The stress takes it's toll on the body and mind. As I say, the only cure is death. That's why I say to people "Be thankful for everything, every breath you take."

Since I'm on the bad new kick, my discussion with Bob Fitzgerald was quite discouraging about my project. Basically he said, been there, done that, got every t-shirt ever made, and dumped it. Tell you this much, I'd be a fool not to take heed his advice.

As my grandfather would say "I'm still breathing."

[goldfinder]

Hey Mike,
Think of the Healing Christ Moving through your body Fixing it.

We need you here even if your theories are only half baked! :)
GoldFinder

[Mike(Mont)]

You mean even if i am a fool? You remember what the Cheshire Cat said to Alice--"..we're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" asked Alice. "You must be," said the Cat "or you wouldn't have come here." :D

And you might not want to here "the rest of the story" what Fitz said so I won't spoil everyone's day.

[Mike(Mont)]

As for "half-baked ideas" I used to do computer programming. As I would say to a house painter i knew when he was taking about doing a price estimate, it's like all of a sudden you open up a door and find a whole new room that needs paint (or computer programming) that you never knew existed. Same with the locators--always find the new rooms, stuff you didn't know about. And you'll never even get that far if you don't try. I've come to the realization like many others around here that L-rods are just too difficult for most people. It's really not much different than metal detectors where 99% are collecting dust in some closet. So they push the propaganda which in my opinion is dishonesty to make money. That's bad Karma and I got enough of my own. You might not know I'm pretty f'ing senstitive about selling something and making an unhappy customer. Even the rodless design I don't want anybody to be unhappy--just thinking about it gives me anguish. As I say it's like other people's kids and dogs--most people do not like other's bad habits but they overlook their own because they love them.

[Mike(Mont)]

Got the news from the doctor and they said I'm going to die, but not from cancer in the foreseeable future. I guess WM6 should quit his daytime job and go to work for the psychic network. :D Only have to do one surgery. Talk about getting the monkey off my back. Still no fun but one is way better than three Now they didn't say I wouldn't die when I see how much I have to pay!

Now if I could just get this locator idiot proof so I can use it. :lol: Maybe I should name it the "Map Dowser" because it's unreliable and inaccurate. I could think of plenty other banned words. But I like the name of a boat I saw on TV "Cause For Divorce". :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

BTTDB...again!!!! Don't read this thread if you can't stand the sight of blood. :lol: Maybe I shouldn't have said that..now there will be many viewers. :lol:

My head is swimming with Wile E. Coyote "ideas". :lol: My passion has turned to obsession and/or just pure insanity. Like John Lennon said after the Beatles broke up, I'll be writing songs whether I like it or not.

[Mike(Mont)]

Maybe, just maybe, I might have breathed some new life into this Wile E. Coyote contraption. Don't know for sure and I have a very bad habit of jumping first before checking the water. I've been changing everything I can think of in hopes that something good will happen, sort of a CPR if you will. Pretty much every day I try some new Coyote "idea" to try to catch the Road Runner. Actually this one today I went back to an old idea I had shelved many months ago. So after making some other changes it seems I am getting a sharper pinpoint on the target, a little bit easier to separate it out from the background noise. Cold weather has made it impossible to work outdoors so my practice search area is very small--not much of a real test. And the weather is not to improve anytime soon. Also, I have been told by someone in the know that this project is not going to find the large, long time buried treasure. But I'm in this too deep to give up now. Pretty much everything is a compromise--"But someday I'm sure you're gonna know the cost, 'cause for everything you win, there's something lost."

[Mike(Mont)]

Not working so good today. I guess I'd say better have a good psychiatrist on speed dial and some good meds handy if you wade into this pool. That might not be enough. Maybe suicide hotline on speed dial, too. :lol: One thing is certain, you will find out if your sanity is firm or not. :help:

[Mike(Mont)]

I guess I'll quit posting about this and save myself from embarrassment. i mean from MORE embarrassment. This is an old design I have been trying to modernize, and there must be some truth to the saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks." That applies to me, too. You must know i can't help myself. I guess it is some kind of therapy. Who knows where I'd be without it. Maybe I'd have a job, friends, a real life. I read an article yesterday about a guy with gold fever. He had a mining claim and never made one cent off it. He let his whole life, family, friends, house, marriage, everything go to Hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdwzSXHrZmI

[Mike(Mont)]

Nothing but stress with this infernal contraption. Been working indoors because of cold weather. Made some changes I thought were working. Then took it outside today and found out the changes did not work as well as I had it before. What a letdown. I should know better than to get excited about anything to do with this.

Here's what I am singing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1B9ktRCkg

[Mike(Mont)]

Maybe I spoke too soon or the blues song helped me get through it (I like that beat.). I went back outside and tried again. Same problem--not locking on to the practice target (half-ounce silver, 14 grams). So in desperation I lowered the power level all the way down and just like that it was hitting the target. What was the problem? I don't know, maybe working TOO good. LOL Okay, quit laughing. Really, the snow must be providing such good something or other. i think even with medium-low power it was pulling to a distant target, somebody's silvered mirror or silverware tray.

Which reminds me of a joke. A hillbilly went into town the first time in years. He happened onto a yard sale and there was a mirror for sale. He'd never seen a mirror and when he looked into it, he thought it was a picture of his father. So he bought it and took it home out to his work shed. For hours and hours he stared at that mirror. Well, his wife started getting suspicious and when he out working she went into the shed to see what was going on. Then she saw the mirror. "Well, I should have known. He bought a picture of another woman, AND SHE'S UGLY AS HELL!" :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Got the ITMD book today (Inside The Metal Detector) and looks like I have a lot of work to do. I mean reading it. That's not even figuring making any changes to my contraption. :barf: Well, it's my own fault. :D No, really i like the book, have enjoyed reading the first few chapters, and no doubt I will learn plenty. Can't help that because when you start from nothing it's easy to add on. :lol:

So to add another motto to my list: "More is greedy." instead of 'More is better.' I did a little tweaking last week and got a stronger signal, but I found out it was causing a case of double vision, and slower lock-on, too. Since changing it back I feel like i went to confession or something, just relieved of my greed sin. :D One of these days I should quit "fixing" it and learn to follow the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But i can't help myself. :help:

[Mike(Mont)]

One of my motto's I made up "Man who pats self on back ends up with broken arm." So I say this with great apprehension because I know the next time the damned thing won't work right, but right now it SEEMS to be working. At least indoors at close range, which is not a good test because it's such a small search area. I put out a gold target and a silver target. Set the device for gold and hit the gold target, then I exchanged places of the targets--gold where the silver was and silver where the gold was. Again, it hit the gold target. Then I set it to silver and did the same thing again with same results. Well, now I need to go find out if I jinxed it. :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! !!! That's my primal scream. Anybody here need not wonder why i appear to be crazy.

[Mike(Mont)]

Just joking. Really do think I got it working. I want to say "flawless" but let's not push things. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

Broken down and ordered a PC-based oscilloscope. They're cheap and probably more than I need or know how to use. :lol: Anyway, figured it might come in handy someday. Maybe I'll figure out what is going on. :lol:

"There's trouble in paradise, the story don't sound too nice
You just can't sleep at night in a solid gold room"

I got that song down all except for the "solid gold room" part. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG7Cruh8RkM

[Mike(Mont)]

Got the Oscope but ain't got a clue how to use it. I have to confess I really hate these electronics instructions manuals. Might as well have been written in Chinese.

Looking of the internet I did find Oscilloscopes for Dummies. :D

[Mike(Mont)]

I've decided to take a breather on this project. Too much stressright now. Hopefully this Spring I'll revive this. At this point I just don't see how i could ever get something I would be happy to put on the market. There's just too many eccentricities to using one of these. I've been learning it for over a year and really just beginning--haven't even had it out in the field on a real hunt yet. And that's months away, so I'mk taking a vacation from all this mess. I don't need this damned thing to own me, and it has. It's affecting my health.

[Mike(Mont)]

Just a little update on this project. I have been working on downsizing the circuit board and pretty much it has been a comedy of errors on my part. Ended up using some wrong parts and then it took me quite a while to figure out the problems. My eyesight is in need of repair. Got an appointment for new eyeglasses so hopefully I won't be able to use that excuse again. :lol: No really, I can't blame it all on poor eyesight, the brain behind it is also having focus issues. But nothing like a failed circuit to sharpen the senses. So yeah, have no choice but to get sharper. :D So really i still don't know for sure if this board will work properly, but I think so. I got the circuits to partially work already. Time will tell.

[Napsterce]

Post what you have been doing here so that someone can help you.

[Mike(Mont)]

I've been working this project without any external help unless somebody wants to invest $100,000. :lol: I used the wrong transistors and the power was like four times too much. So when adjusting the power gain, the circuit would go from zero to full blast. There was only a tiny window of adjustment. So the correct transistors should clear up this problem. Won't know until i get the parts. My concerns centered around the fact that I am electronically ignorant and illiterate. I didn't know what would happen by downsizing the circuit board. I've heard of self-oscillation and it's hard to see through the fog when the parts are wrong to start with. So I am learning as I go and no doubt there will be more obstacles. Thanks for your offer to help.

[Mike(Mont)]

Bad news, the correct transistors didn't help any. So I am going to try to use the P.C. oscilloscope and see if I can figure out how t use it. :lol::barf:

[Mike(Mont)]

My latest attempt is to add a resistor on the main input so things are more balanced. I don't know, I may never get this thing figured out. There's just too much stuff I don't know.

[Mike(Mont)]

Still have the "too much power" issue but I got the thing working today with a few loose wires to finish yet. So hopefully soon i'll have this ready to try out in the real world. I don't know why I'm not more excited about this. It's been a huge headache and unbelievable frustration pretty much every day. I guess I don't believe it yet. It still needs work, hard to tune, etc. Still a real PITA.

[Mike(Mont)]

Here is a photo of the electronic receiver. You scan the area where the transmitter is pointing towards and narrow down the beeping until just a few clicks as you sweep past the target.

[WM6]

Nice design. Hope it will works according your expectations.

[Mike(Mont)]

Ah, another Tinker Toy fan. This "design" was one of those see-how-fast-you-can-put-something-together, part 2. Really needs some kind of "Star Wars" case to get people's attention. All that artsy-fartsy stuff is not my forte.

[HaFar2010]

Hell
Dear all.

I received a pic. Its sender claims that it is a perfect detector. Is anyone that have some information about it?


http://s9.picofile.com/file/8291763550/photo_2017_04_11_15_28_12.jpg

[Mike(Mont)]

Two-way radio?

[Bill512]

Here is a photo of the electronic receiver. You scan the area where the transmitter is pointing towards and narrow down the beeping until just a few clicks as you sweep past the target.

Mike, give us some info about this system (whatever you can share...:D)
This receiver actually can trace electronically the "target line"???
By the term electronically , i mean only electronics - (not electronically "assisted", swivel rods , pendulums etc...)

[HaFar2010]

It has only a prob! but it detects all targets using a radar program, which include their type and gps code for exact location.


http://s8.picofile.com/file/8291814200/photo_2017_04_11_23_41_52.jpg

[WM6]

it detects all targets using a radar program, which include their type and gps code for exact location.




If it not dig targets too - it is worthless.

[Mike(Mont)]

Mike, give us some info about this system (whatever you can share...:D)
This receiver actually can trace electronically the "target line"???
By the term electronically , i mean only electronics - (not electronically "assisted", swivel rods , pendulums etc...)

Don't know if "signal line" tracing is an accurate description as that reminds me of walking an "S" pattern with L-rods. But "finding the line to the target" is looking/aiming right down the signal line (from transmitter) like down the barrel of a gun. So yeah, you have to move the receiver/antenna and find the anomaly, where the device sounds off, then check it out further for size, shape, from other angles. Something like a metal detector. The newer Gold Gun with the transmitter might be somewhat similar but never seen one.

[Bill512]

Mike, I guess that this TX/RX system it's the Magnacast configuration.

[Mike(Mont)]

Got the parts I ordered but haven't installed yet. I don't expect a huge difference, but many small steps add up. No, that black handle does not swivel. :lol: Wierd camera distortion like fish-eye lense.

[Mike(Mont)]

Mike, I guess that this TX/RX system it's the Magnacast configuration.

Yeah, the newer Gold Gun and the Magnacast are similar. Haven't heard much success from either one. Pretty good indication when they quit selling them. Wonder if those guys went crazy? :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

This is a transmitter coil I threw together today. Plan to go a bit smaller next one.

[Bill512]

Mike, I assume that the coil cable is an ordinary cable...nothing special or RF ,etc

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, LOL, you can see the red patch wires from the amp. Not quite "up to code", yet. Don't touch those.

[Mike(Mont)]

I built a smaller Tx coil.

[folharin]

What kind of antenna are you using to receive signal?

[Mike(Mont)]

Oh man, I feel like Edison inventing the light bulb-- ten-thousand ways that won't work.
Similar to the Gold Gun or other ferrite rod antennae.

[WM6]

What kind of antenna are you using to receive signal?

Maybe this:

https://youtu.be/ATQ8kgo7e7M

[abdou2014]

Can you share with us this TX/RX Mr Mike ?

[Mike(Mont)]

Maybe the translation is wrong. I said many frequencies will work.

[sinclairuser]

Oh man, I feel like Edison inventing the light bulb-- ten-thousand ways that won't work.
Similar to the Gold Gun or other ferrite rod antennae.
edison didn't invent the lightbulb swan did, most of the stuff he is credited with "inventing" were actually invented by others, he just developed them or made them work better.
today he would be considered a patent infringer and sued out of existence.

[Mike(Mont)]

He didn't even do much of the work, just took credit for it. But his process and mine are the same--make every possible mistake. :lol:

[abdou2014]

can u share the newer Gold Gun schematic if the box are not empty pls ?

[abdou2014]

Is there anybody among the old members who knows how to make the double O coil 50 + 50 of esteban Pls ???

[Mike(Mont)]

Probably have better chance if you post your request on one of Estaban's threads

[abdou2014]

Thank you Mike :)

[Mike(Mont)]

I am hoping some day I can move this project out of the 1900's. I guess I need to start with myself.

[Mike(Mont)]

been about a year and a half since I posted here on this thread. Worked on many different ideas and mostly shelved all of them. So I'm back to nearly the first version because it gives a stronger signal and more stable and less hassle for me. Health and mental issues have taken their toll on me and finances are even worse. LOL I was hoping to have an investor but even that just disappeared into thin air. Never heard from the guy again. He's probably making more money than he needs right now. that's okay. Pretty much decided not to worry about any commercial venture. If it happens, it happens. I really got stressed out and burnt out over the whole thing. I was working on it earlier this year, tried out some ideas and decided too much other worries in my life to add any more. But some day when I get time and money i will go back and redo a couple of the ideas but i'm not going to force things. And I haven't even been out hunting with it since I can't remember when. ANd with my situation it's not going to be real soon. And the weather has been crazy around here. Cold with highs in the forty's and even thirty's some days with more snow predicted. Great! And my hunting partner has gone more mental than me. He went crazy over the political scene. Can't deal with that right now. So don't feel like going hunting alone. All a rough situation but someday I'll get it all together. I hope.

I'm still trying to get new insights. Sometimes i get these bursts of Wile E. Coyote ideas. Had one last night. Watch out, Roadrunner!!! :lol: My brain is so slow I think glaciers move faster and are warmer. As I say, I can spend years at the school of hard knocks before I wave the white flag. But not yet.

[Mike(Mont)]

Here is a short video clip of the Contraption on some silver. I put the ropes down so you can better see the line to the target.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0FIE0mGg7k

[Geo]

Thanks Mike, very good work!!

:):)

[WM6]

Nice idea - those ropes line. One could use laser pointer too.

[humhum]

Very good Test , Congratulation Mike , method may be works with Trasnmit Resonant Freq. for Silver X,x Khz , and Receiver Box in same Frequency . :)

[Mike(Mont)]

Thanks to all.

It doesn't alway lock-on to the target. The further the distance the less reliability and the longer it takes to lock-on.

I've messed with a laser pointer and it's not that easy. Something causes the signal to get disrupted and off line. At least when the laser is near the receiver antenna.

The receiver is wide band so it can be used for various frequencies. Same with the transmitter. It reaches a point where the signal weakens, but it works okay for most all frequencies.

The video was not easy to make and was a compromise just for the video sake. I can get the signal angle narrowed down quite a bit more-- so there is only three or four clicks when on the target.

[Mike(Mont)]

What I am trying to say is the transmitter can accept a fairly wide range of input frequencies. Like 100Hz to 25KHz.

[humhum]

Ok Mike, Transmitter send from 100Hz to 25Khz Square or Sinuoidal wave in search mode continious , also Receiver is in Wide band from 100Hz to 25Khz . This is good Idea ,
but also You can Test with send up to 1 minute with High Power and Off Tx ,
after you can search backup Receive signal from buried (this test is for only buried).

[Mike(Mont)]

I don't have any large mass long-time buried to test that. I think I know what you are saying--toggle the transmitter and see if signal can be achieved passively. I don't know if it will work that way. If you recall the later version Gold Gun needed it's own transmitter. Same here. I know the inventor later designed a high power receiver AGR that did not require a transmitter--it used the power from a local AM radio station. That might work but we have only low power AM radio round here--5KW. I think you need 50KW.

[Mike(Mont)]

AGR stands for Advanced Geophysical Receiver. Accurate Locators (out of business since the owner died) sold them for like $10,000. They were for large mineral deposits/lodes and only had about 100 feet (30M) range. Somewhere I have some info on it. I'll look for it.

[Mike(Mont)]

I hope nobody gets the wrong idea here. The Contraption is not perfect by any means. What the video showed is true--no tricks or gimmicks. But the signal doesn't always lock-on to the target. I've been out with it only a few times in the field (city parks) and it wasn't any miracle. I keep working on it.

[Mike(Mont)]

It's pushing two years since I last posted on this thread. I've been suffering brain fog, still have it but back on the low-carb diet and it seems to be helping me think a little bit clearer. I made a "discovery" this morning--had the receiver set too sensitive. Something that simple had me so messed up picking up stray signals. This past year I was about to give up on the whole project, didn't even touch it for months. I don't have any markings on the dials so I just assumed it was okay---wrong!!!! It's below zero outside so I'll have to wait until late tomorrow maybe, but indoors it's working pretty good.

Found out some other stuff, but will have to experiment with it. Changed frequencies, too. Still might try to get the magnetometer going. But I'll wait until I am bored to death with the Winter weather. So I got my enthusiasm back!

[Mike(Mont)]

A little catch-up here. Had some problems with the Contraption a while back.Wasn't locking on the target and I assumed it was due to solar magnetic interference. Then the Tx just quit working. I went through all the connections, etc. trying to trace down the problem. It was a power amplifier that went bad. I should have put a heat sink on it but it lasted several years. In the process I found one channel on the frequency generator had erratic voltage, bouncing all over the place but mostly millivolts so I replace the the unit. In my search I found a freneator that looked very similar to what I had. It was a rife machine and the guy has designed his own waveform. Think hje called it the H-bomb square wave. NOt making any claims about it but because I haven't had it out in the field yet.

[Mike(Mont)]

I seem to be making some progress with the Contraption. I adjusted a high pass filter on the receiver so it detects lower frequencies better. Also I have been working with different frequencies. I was reading an old manual said higher frequencies discriminate faster. To me that means during times when interference is off and on, the target locks on easier. Pinpointing is not perfect, maybe just need to fine tune the frequency a bit, I don't know. But one main thing I did was change the wave form to triangle. I was reading some info at gdi-detectors.com about how they measure the ground resistance and decide which waveform to use. Normally this area is very dry ground but melting snow now and it does affect things. Even though we are very near solar maximum, for the most part it has not had much effect on my testing. Locating conditions have been good lately. Just to repeat, wet, mineralized ground does not like the square wave. The signal does not lock-on very well. I read somewhere square wave is strongest, sine wave is 1/2 strength, triangle wave is 1/3 strength. Before I retuned the high pass filter the triangle wave was very weak signal, now it is quite a bit better.

On another note, reading the LRL reports page on geotech1.com Dell Winders used a magnet inside his Weight Chek belt receiver for the L-rods. Said something like it smooths out the signal. To “smooth distortions of the magnetic field, providing more definable responses from the receiver rods.” So easy enough to try this on whatever device you are using. I know when I walk through the test target area my body field acts like a degausser so I suspect the magnet does the same thing. I've seen map dowsers wipe down the map with a large magnet before dowsing.

[Geo]

AGR stands for Advanced Geophysical Receiver. Accurate Locators (out of business since the owner died) sold them for like $10,000. They were for large mineral deposits/lodes and only had about 100 feet (30M) range. Somewhere I have some info on it. I'll look for it.

Hello Mike. Did you look it for????:lol:

:)

[Mike(Mont)]

I found it a while back but my printer was running out of ink so most pages are illegible. Basically you take the AM radio station in kHz and multiply by the frequency factor. The answer is in kHz and this is what you tune the receiver to. AS I recall fist-sized targets and larger from maximum 100 meters. He said it was a super-het receiver. Also said if you don't have a good AM station you can use the naval VLF station and tune directly to that frequency. He gives no details on receiver construction.