The point of the situation

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

I want to remind you that at the beginning in this forum almost all of us believed not to "lrl phenomenom" but when Esteban told us that lrl was a real working instrument and that the phenomenom was real and that it could be revealed in many way, then I started experimenting, at the beginning with the PD pistol, after with BFO, E-field and B-field instrument. I must confess that I had many disappointments but the successes obtained by Morgan and Geo they stimulated me to continue. Obviously I thought the words of Morgan and Geo and in addition I was convinced that the "sky/compass" effect was the demonstration that all my instruments (I think more then 30) they detected some strange but real phenomenom. Unfortunately the sky/compass effect is more strong that lrl signal and then a not well designed lrl it cannot sense the phenomenom. We can think to sky/compass effect as a low impedance and low voltage source and the lrl signal as high impedance and high voltage source, if we measure with a low impedance instrument we lose the high impedance signal and if our instrument emits a strong signal (TX coil) than this fact also kills the lrl signal. But the question is not simple, a high impedance instrument also senses the "trees/walls" effect and as a last thing the lrl signal depends on the orientation and I think that the sky/compass effect acts as a channel. The Key is (for me) an amplifier stage in a self oscillating mode, but without signal saturation. I have realized some of this lrl and they work but I wait for tests by Geo. The problem is that the circuit is difficult to calibrate, I can't explain as it can oscillate with a stable but not saturated signal. This circuit is similar to a super regenerative receiver. In the circuit there are 4 transistors BC183C or similar with "beta" more then 500, the DC out is in the range 2-7V and when I connect the scope the DC out drops to zero, then no oscillation. The circuit is derived from a RF sniffer in FM range, but I think that the frequency in my case is much less, not depending from LC tank. This stage is the "front-end" and it is followed by a motion stage/comparator and then led and buzzer. The stage oscillates also without antenna and when we touch the antenna the signal out varies considerably. In the field the optimal adjustment is when there is no sky/compass effect.

Best Regards

[Qiaozhi]

You can also experience the sky effect with a standard Heathkit GD348 and a Micronta 4001. Both of these detectors use unshielded coils.

By the way, TOTeM is designed to eliminate the sky or compass effects, while still using an unshielded coil. ;)

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Qiaozhi
To eliminate the sky/compass effect is not enough... your ToTeM detect also a buried target? With my lrl I have found a brass bullet at 1 meter, 5 cm deep and after digging the lrl gave no signal and in my test field I detect 5 silver coins 20 cm buried at about 2 meter.
The main defect is that it's a all (no ferrous) metal and that it gives
many signals not confirmed by MD.

Best Regards

[Qiaozhi]

The main defect is that it's a all (no ferrous) metal and that it gives many signals not confirmed by MD.
In that case, how can you be certain that it's really detecting any signal from a buried target?
Did you perform the final recovery / pinpointing of the bullet with a conventional metal detector?

[aft_72005]

Hi FrancoItaly
Your LRL is regenerative method, my question if without oscillation , also
Can detect target?
Best regards.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

Yes obviously I have performed the final recovery of the bullet with my spectra V3.
Without oscillation there is no detecting. Here I post a possible solution for motion/comparator stage to make a working lrl. I think that circuit works well as the "front-end" has a high DC out. In my lrls I have more amplification (they derived from other designes) and I must reduce the front-end gain.

Best Regards

[Sneshko]

Hi FrancoItaly!

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2002/photolrl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/photolrl.jpg/)

Please post a complete shematic of your device!
Thanks in advance!
Regards!
Sneshko

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Sneshko
in this thread you have all the information for to build a working lrl, the most important thing is the "front-end" part and you need only a stylus antenna.

Best Regards

[vali]

With this circuit with an antenna and a treasure to find . ;););)

[FrancoItaly]

If you think that this circuit works well for to find treasure go in the field and good luck... but if it's just your opinion in this forum there are also too many theorists. I decided to post here my lrl to help all those who are really interested to build a lrl, for to share my experiences and to learn from the experiences of others.I don't answer to provocations or non-constructive criticism. Unfortunately in this forum only debates if lrls work or not and for this I have decided to post my experiences. I firmly believe that the lrl phenomenon is real and I have no interest in trying to convince you.

Best Regards

[vali]

good luck??:cool::cool::cool: thank...

[Goldmaxx]

If you think that this circuit works well for to find treasure go in the field and good luck... but if it's just your opinion in this forum there are also too many theorists. I decided to post here my lrl to help all those who are really interested to build a lrl, for to share my experiences and to learn from the experiences of others.I don't answer to provocations or non-constructive criticism. Unfortunately in this forum only debates if lrls work or not and for this I have decided to post my experiences. I firmly believe that the lrl phenomenon is real and I have no interest in trying to convince you.

Best Regards


Bravo FrancoItaly
finally someone who speaks the right words.
Instead of debating only whether there are a LRL phenomenon or not, or LRL works or not, he should spend his time to trying to prove it himself.
Approaches, there are here enough.
I'm not an electronics expert, but the subject interested me so much that I simply must prove it to me self if it works or not.
I do belief any case that it is possible.

I find your work really great FrancoItaly and I congratulate you on your success. :thumb:
I also find it very good of you that you share your experiences.
When I'm finished with my TOTeM project, I would like try to build your LRL.

best Regards

[humhum]

Hi FrancoItaly congratulation for your LRL, how works it , with movement from left to Right or witout movement (fix), can you send Video when sens target ,
Your lrl can (did) have Classification for Gold or for Non-Ferrous ?

Regards.

[Geo]

Hi All

I want to remind you that at the beginning in this forum almost all of us believed not to "lrl phenomenom" but when Esteban told us that lrl was a real working instrument and that the phenomenom was real and that it could be revealed in many way, then I started experimenting, at the beginning with the PD pistol, after with BFO, E-field and B-field instrument. I must confess that I had many disappointments but the successes obtained by Morgan and Geo they stimulated me to continue. Obviously I thought the words of Morgan and Geo and in addition I was convinced that the "sky/compass" effect was the demonstration that all my instruments (I think more then 30) they detected some strange but real phenomenom. Unfortunately the sky/compass effect is more strong that lrl signal and then a not well designed lrl it cannot sense the phenomenom. We can think to sky/compass effect as a low impedance and low voltage source and the lrl signal as high impedance and high voltage source, if we measure with a low impedance instrument we lose the high impedance signal and if our instrument emits a strong signal (TX coil) than this fact also kills the lrl signal. But the question is not simple, a high impedance instrument also senses the "trees/walls" effect and as a last thing the lrl signal depends on the orientation and I think that the sky/compass effect acts as a channel. The Key is (for me) an amplifier stage in a self oscillating mode, but without signal saturation. I have realized some of this lrl and they work but I wait for tests by Geo. The problem is that the circuit is difficult to calibrate, I can't explain as it can oscillate with a stable but not saturated signal. This circuit is similar to a super regenerative receiver. In the circuit there are 4 transistors BC183C or similar with "beta" more then 500, the DC out is in the range 2-7V and when I connect the scope the DC out drops to zero, then no oscillation. The circuit is derived from a RF sniffer in FM range, but I think that the frequency in my case is much less, not depending from LC tank. This stage is the "front-end" and it is followed by a motion stage/comparator and then led and buzzer. The stage oscillates also without antenna and when we touch the antenna the signal out varies considerably. In the field the optimal adjustment is when there is no sky/compass effect.

Best Regards


Hi Franco.
Before 3 days i replied here but i don't see my post.
Any way.... here is winter , it rains very often so i had not the ability to try your lrls.
Maybe at end of March or begining of April.

Again congratulations....:)

Regards

[Geo]

Hi Qiaozhi
To eliminate the sky/compass effect is not enough... your ToTeM detect also a buried target? With my lrl I have found a brass bullet at 1 meter, 5 cm deep and after digging the lrl gave no signal and in my test field I detect 5 silver coins 20 cm buried at about 2 meter.
The main defect is that it's a all (no ferrous) metal and that it gives
many signals not confirmed by MD.

Best Regards


Hi.
If the LRL has the ability of good pin point, then dig 15...20 cm and try again with MD.
Maybe the buried object is at big depth and the MD can't locate it. It is often phenomenon

Regards

Btw... the brass bullet how old it was?????

[Dedevil]

I think with these types of detection of this kind it is important to shield out electrostatic effects around the detector. Even the type of glue or silicone used can change the performance. I remember esteban used teflon, but there are other substances which we can all try and post results. Also body static from clothing, etc, can affect the detector. Maybe it would be a good idea to enclose the circuit boards in a shield to ground to reduce this.
rgds

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo
With my lrl I have a good pinpoint only with the brass bullet (very old I think) thats with small signal, more than 1 meter no signal. The great problem is for signals not confirmed by MD in the range of 2-5 meters and in a field with too much vegetation. I'm not sure that is important a good shield, it may be an obstacle to phenomenon. All my lrl are in plastic box and the "front-end" in open air and I use a long handle to avoid body influence.

Best Regards

[humhum]

Hi FrancoItaly , in your schema I see that have connection for one Antenna , but in your LRL Picture you use three Antennas for what, maybe LRL works with Two Tx and One Rx antenna.

Franco for more sens you make- try connection from your device Ground to your body with cable. (this info was from Big Master Esteban)


Regards.

[Sneshko]

Hi All

I want to remind you that at the beginning in this forum almost all of us believed not to "lrl phenomenom" but when Esteban told us that lrl was a real working instrument and that the phenomenom was real and that it could be revealed in many way, then I started experimenting, at the beginning with the PD pistol, after with BFO, E-field and B-field instrument. I must confess that I had many disappointments but the successes obtained by Morgan and Geo they stimulated me to continue. Obviously I thought the words of Morgan and Geo and in addition I was convinced that the "sky/compass" effect was the demonstration that all my instruments (I think more then 30) they detected some strange but real phenomenom. Unfortunately the sky/compass effect is more strong that lrl signal and then a not well designed lrl it cannot sense the phenomenom. We can think to sky/compass effect as a low impedance and low voltage source and the lrl signal as high impedance and high voltage source, if we measure with a low impedance instrument we lose the high impedance signal and if our instrument emits a strong signal (TX coil) than this fact also kills the lrl signal. But the question is not simple, a high impedance instrument also senses the "trees/walls" effect and as a last thing the lrl signal depends on the orientation and I think that the sky/compass effect acts as a channel. The Key is (for me) an amplifier stage in a self oscillating mode, but without signal saturation. I have realized some of this lrl and they work but I wait for tests by Geo. The problem is that the circuit is difficult to calibrate, I can't explain as it can oscillate with a stable but not saturated signal. This circuit is similar to a super regenerative receiver. In the circuit there are 4 transistors BC183C or similar with "beta" more then 500, the DC out is in the range 2-7V and when I connect the scope the DC out drops to zero, then no oscillation. The circuit is derived from a RF sniffer in FM range, but I think that the frequency in my case is much less, not depending from LC tank. This stage is the "front-end" and it is followed by a motion stage/comparator and then led and buzzer. The stage oscillates also without antenna and when we touch the antenna the signal out varies considerably. In the field the optimal adjustment is when there is no sky/compass effect.
Best Regards

Hi FrancoItaly!
My previous post was not a good translator translated.! I'm sorry!
Maybe the solution is to use a good receiver for the detection of weak signals (and, at the same time), rejecting noise.
One such circuit is the schematic below:

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9055/emafj.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/emafj.jpg/)

If you are interested, I can send you the full article about this circuit?
Regards!
Sneshko

P.S.
Please administrator to delete the previous post!
Thank you!
Sneshko

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Humhum
All 3 antenna are connected together in parallel but in the last version of my lrl I have only one antenna 20 cm elongated with same good results. Maybe a connection between body and ground increases sensitivity but perhaps also for sky/compass effect, but I think that the phenomenon is mainly over the ground. For Sneshko I thank you for the schema, but only a good receiver is not sufficient to catch the phenomenon, the key is an oscillator stable, with low RF emission, without big coil and much influenced by external factors, mainly by e-field (remember the stylus antenna).
Best Regards

[Geo]

A photo from Franco's LRL.
:thumb:

Regards:)

[Morgan]

A photo from Franco's LRL.
:thumb:

Regards:)

good luck with this one too.

if results in Greece are not good,you can send me to test here.


regards

[Geo]

good luck with this one too.

if results in Greece are not good,you can send me to test here.


regards

Why not????
But i must wait at least one month because the soil moisture is very high.

Regards

[Geo]

Yesterday i tried it at field but did not work:angry:. It stop to oscillate.
I don't know why!!.
Soon i"ll look it8)

Regards

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo
Put the 2pF capacitor between collector third transistor and base of second transistor, try some values of the emitter capacitor for 3 - 6V of DC out, I have made this change and in my laboratory it works well, but I have not tested in the field :frown:.

Best Regards

[Geo]

Hi Franco.
Maybe tommorrow i will try to make it to oscillate. If all will go OK then i"ll try it again

Regards

[Tim Williams]

Hello everyone been a while. Just wanted to pop in and say hello to everyone. I see many are still working on electronic lrl. Been busy and have not had time to get on here. All the best to everyone. Carl I'm planing on being at the show if your there I'll see you.

Take care,

LRLMAN

[Geo]

Hello Tim.
Long time!!!!!:lol:
How are you???

Regards:)

[Geo]

Hi Franco.
Yesterday i made it to oscillate. I connected a trimer 3-9pf between 2nd and 3nd transistor. Also i removed the coil at input. Now without coil is more sensitive. It oscillates near to 3Mhz and the 3turns coil was as a short to the signal.
I connect the oscillator as modul to the LM358. So i made the other schematic with xtal and i tried at lab.All are ok and now i wait the weather to calm. Weather rains 24 houre.

Regards

btw.... do you have any practical way to check the lrl if works ok??? battery spark don't do anything....

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo

The only way to test my lrl it's to touch with my hand the antenna, I have a strong signal if it's working. For me it's important the coil but I have no tried without coil. The coil is separated from the oscillation stage by the first transistor therefore has no effect on it. As I said in RS thread I have not tried the LM358 stage alone because I have used other modified pistols with more gain but I had to reduce the gain as the "front-end stage" has very high gain. If You touch the antenna and the led lights I think that it's OK. Also here it's raining and I cannot go to test in the field.

Best Regards

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo

I tested the 2 working lrls and the last with the 2pF capacitor with a transmitter for remote control (about 430 Mhz) and this gives a strong signal at about 15 cm for the 3 lrls and with the stylus antenna 20 cm elongated. This test doesn't work with remote control for car but with remote-controlled electrical outlets.

Best Regards

[Tim Williams]

Doing well geo. all the best to you.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo

I post here the last version of my lrl, it works well as the others, but it oscillates with the help of a small capacitor connected between collector of TR3 and base of TR2, the right value is 0.5pF (also 2 capacitors 1pF connected in series). With 2pF as your circuit the lrl dosn't cacht the phenomenon, I have tried this value. The DC out is 3V, if it is less You must increase C8 and vice versa. R11, R12, C13 and C14 are a low pass filter to remove any residue of high frequency signal. Also this lrl senses the silver coins at about 2 meters.
to increase the sensitivity You must lengthen the antenna, by this way it's possible a sort of pinpoint.

Best Regards

[goldfinder]

Hi Geo

I post here the last version of my lrl, it works well as the others, but it oscillates with the help of a small capacitor connected between collector of TR3 and base of TR2, the right value is 0.5pF (also 2 capacitors 1pF connected in series). With 2pF as your circuit the lrl dosn't cacht the phenomenon, I have tried this value. The DC out is 3V, if it is less You must increase C8 and vice versa. R11, R12, C13 and C14 are a low pass filter to remove any residue of high frequency signal. Also this lrl senses the silver coins at about 2 meters.
to increase the sensitivity You must lengthen the antenna, by this way it's possible a sort of pinpoint.

Best Regards

When you say it works as well as the others what does that mean?

Are the silver coins buried in the ground or setting on the surface of ground?

goldfinder

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Funfinder
The silver coins are buried about 20 cm under ground 1 year ago :rolleyes:.

Best Regards

[FrancoItaly]

Hi goldfinder
Sorry You are Gold non Fun...finder :p.

[Morgan]

Hi Franco


the coins are buried with some salt to make the PHENOMENON more active ,or without ?

[Geo]

Hi Geo

I post here the last version of my lrl, it works well as the others, but it oscillates with the help of a small capacitor connected between collector of TR3 and base of TR2, the right value is 0.5pF (also 2 capacitors 1pF connected in series). With 2pF as your circuit the lrl dosn't cacht the phenomenon, I have tried this value. The DC out is 3V, if it is less You must increase C8 and vice versa. R11, R12, C13 and C14 are a low pass filter to remove any residue of high frequency signal. Also this lrl senses the silver coins at about 2 meters.
to increase the sensitivity You must lengthen the antenna, by this way it's possible a sort of pinpoint.

Best Regards

Hi Franco.
Thank you for the file.
What i see at NI stimulator is that this don't oscillate good. It oscillates near to 2.2Mhz modulated at 45Khz and after some seconds it oscillates only at 45Khz and again the same ... and so on...
How your oscillator works??

Regards:)

[Sneshko]

Hi FrancoItaly!
Please let me know what is the value of capacitor C3?
whether 22pF?
Thanks in advance for the answer! :)
Regards!
Sneshko

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5481/lrlquestion.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/22/lrlquestion.jpg/)

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

The coins are buried without salt or no other substance, C3 is 22nF.
In my circuit the DC out is very stable, but this values depend on the gain of the transistors. The NI simulator does not allow to change the "beta" of transistor and this may explain the instability. I suggest you build the circuit with 0.5 pF and try different values for C6 and C8 to a proper DC out. If you don't have success try 1pF. The purpose is to have the max gain of the circuit and with a greater capacitor in the positive reaction we will be forced to decrease the gain by changing C6 and C8.

Best Regards

[detectoman]

i no see to brodhy morgan build or gave opinions, on this lrl :)

[Morgan]

i no see to brodhy morgan build or gave opinions, on this lrl :)

yes,correct,i have my LRLs,PDKs,remember ? ;)

[detectoman]

then morgans, your think what yours lrl are the best non plus ultra? and then no need most prototipes propossal? ;)

[Morgan]

then morgans, your think what yours lrl are the best non plus ultra? and then no need most prototipes propossal? ;)

until now i dont know better LRLs...

[detectoman]

may be you no know the long range of me pecosy
puede ser porque usted no conoce los larga distancia mios pecoso

[Morgan]

may be you no know the long range of me pecosy
puede ser porque usted no conoce los larga distancia mios pecoso

your cacharros much better,show me the many gold, quesitos ocho escudos oro de los conquistadores que as encontrado,you have found :D



18456

[detectoman]

brodhy morgan, yo solo he encontrado moneditas dispersas de cobre y plata como tu
una pregunta hermano, dime si tu pd ultima 4, solo tiene receptor pasivo o tambien tiene estimulador?
hermanito morgan, i only find coins separate of silver and coper how you, say me please if you pd 4, have only pasive receptor o too have estimulator coil

[Morgan]

brodhy morgan, yo solo he encontrado moneditas dispersas de cobre y plata como tu
una pregunta hermano, dime si tu pd ultima 4, solo tiene receptor pasivo o tambien tiene estimulador?
hermanito morgan, i only find coins separate of silver and coper how you, say me please if you pd 4, have only pasive receptor o too have estimulator coil

El PDK-4 es una copia de Grecia del PDK-2.2,

I dont have PDK-4,is Grrek clonage of my PDK-2.2

see photo of greek CLONE :

18460

[detectoman]

then morgan you no use most pd whit a stimulator?
entonces morgan tu ya no usas la pd con estimulador

[Morgan]

then morgan you no use most pd whit a stimulator?
entonces morgan tu ya no usas la pd con estimulador

there is a hide stimulator coil...

[iron1944]

Dear Sneshko

Can I ask you combine these two circuits? thanks

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9055/emafj.jpg
http://b1304.hizliresim.com/18/3/lr43t.png

[Sneshko]

Dear Sneshko
Can I ask you combine these two circuits? thanks

Hi iron1944!
Why should not it?
Try it!
Note the different voltages of the two circuits.
My circuit is receiver for the detection of weak signals, and, do not include near sources of strong electromagnetic fields. If you do not listen you will see white smoke from the IC1 !!!
Regards & Good luck !
Sneshko

[fmnotes]

Hi All

Yes obviously I have performed the final recovery of the bullet with my spectra V3.
Without oscillation there is no detecting. Here I post a possible solution for motion/comparator stage to make a working lrl. I think that circuit works well as the "front-end" has a high DC out. In my lrls I have more amplification (they derived from other designes) and I must reduce the front-end gain.

Best Regards

Hello.
Eventually this circuit works?
Worth a construct?
Anyone who knows and has constructed.
Please answer
Thank you.