Are you interested how LRLs really work?

[Funfinder]

If YES:

provide and help to get useful, technical, electronical, reliable test-experience, concrete and other HARD FACTS ! :|


if NO:

play your miserable mysterious-chandler games somewhere else! :angry:

I'm so sick of it! :angry:

Stupid timewasting "bla bla blas" all over this forum! :angry:

[Qiaozhi]

Funfinder - In order to balance the information provided in Chapter 13 of Inside the METAL DETECTOR, I spent some of my valuable time in investigating the claims of the PDK. My findings were presented in Chapter 14, and resulted in the LRL design referred to as TOTeM. In the same way as HammerHead is a learning platform for PI detectors, and Raptor is a learning platform for VLF, the TOTem pistol detector is designed as an experimental platform for electronic LRLs. Unlike the other designs on this site, all the information is provided. Nothing is hidden, and all the facts are open for everyone to see. The device acts like the PDK, passes all the laboratory tests described throughout this forum, and even appears to following a "signal line" when in use. Whether this will lead you to untold riches is maybe a different story, but at least I've provided you with the tools you need to experiment. A couple of members have started building TOTeM, but so far I've not heard of any results (good or bad). Perhaps they're all lounging around on a desert island enjoying their new found riches. :lol:

[Funfinder]

Hi Qiaozhi

Very good, you see the hole thing from a scientific and technical point of view, too.

What is that TOTeM abbreviation thing?


In german tot means dead plus em = dead EM Field locator! :lol:

And this is a very good decribition for those kind of detectors! ;)


You're talking about "laboratory tests passed" - what has been tested exactly -
earth magnetical field, 60kHz longwave directional signal distortions, electrostatic fields?
At least we must exclude 2 of the here described detection-methods to get a clear picture.



>Perhaps they're all lounging around on a desert island enjoying their new found riches. :lol:

Absolutly. On an island at the Bahamas, Maldives or Hawaii, drinking champage
or coconutmilk and looking for pirate-treasures you can't find without LRL. :D

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Qiaozhi

Very good, you see the hole thing from a scientific and technical point of view, too.

What is that TOTeM abbreviation thing?


In german tot means dead plus em = dead EM Field locator! :lol:

And this is a very good decribition for those kind of detectors! ;)


You're talking about "laboratory tests passed" - what has been tested exactly -
earth magnetical field, 60kHz longwave directional signal distortions, electrostatic fields?
At least we must exclude 2 of the here described detection-methods to get a clear picture.

You will need to read Chapter 14 to find out. ;)
www.geotech1.com/itmd

[Funfinder]

You will need to read Chapter 14 to find out. ;)
www.geotech1.com/itmd (http://www.geotech1.com/itmd)

I doubt we will find ITMD whats going on OTLD. :cool:


btw. congrats Qiaozhi & Carl for the book and much success as
authors. I also have written already some books, 15 years ago.

You please may upload an excerpt so I know what's goining on
"inside the inside the metal detector book". ;)


Oh - you still wonder what means: OTLD?

Outside The Longrange-Detector! :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

You please may upload an excerpt so I know what's goining on
"inside the inside the metal detector book". ;)
www.geotech1.com/itmd

[Funfinder]

www.geotech1.com/itmd (http://www.geotech1.com/itmd)

We don't like to buy "LRL-cats in bags" and the same applies to books so its good to have a few excerpt pages so you can get a real impression, not just the content only.


And this ITMB-book should not became another "pseudo-secret-key" to pseudonotworking LRL circuits. :angry: It starts with "you must read the book otherwise I won't tell you the meaning of TOTeM" and ends with:

You must buy the book or you can't construct those ominous TOTeM circuits!

No, because I don't buy "LRL-device-cats in bags" and I also don't buy "LRL-circuit-cats-in-bags"! No clever person should! :nono:


Otherwise the creators of this ITMD book are on the same step as those mysterious-chandlers begining from hung over Morgan to Geo! :angry:


This forum even is all around being skeptical about all those fabulous and unconfirmed LRL claims!

[Geo]

Otherwise the creators of this ITMD book are on the same step as those mysterious-chandlers begining from hung over Morgan to Geo! :angry:



:lol::lol:

I not supply anything. Not trying to sell anything. What i do, it's just my hobby.
You try to represent Crypton in Europe and make a procurement from them. You try to win against from these lrls.
You're a liar, a hypocrite and a fraud.. Sometimes show opponents of lrls , and sometimes trying to sell lrls... :lol::razz::razz:

[Morgan]

We don't like to buy "LRL-cats in bags" and the same applies to books so its good to have a few excerpt pages so you can get a real impression, not just the content only.


And this ITMB-book should not became another "pseudo-secret-key" to pseudonotworking LRL circuits. :angry: It starts with "you must read the book otherwise I won't tell you the meaning of TOTeM" and ends with:

You must buy the book or you can't construct those ominous TOTeM circuits!

No, because I don't buy "LRL-device-cats in bags" and I also don't buy "LRL-circuit-cats-in-bags"! No clever person should! :nono:


Otherwise the creators of this ITMD book are on the same step as those mysterious-chandlers begining from hung over Morgan to Geo! :angry:


This forum even is all around being skeptical about all those fabulous and unconfirmed LRL claims!

About me, maybe you think I use this forum to sell crap PDKs, but no, I help people to find treasures with PDKs, and if PDKs are BS fraud nobody found nothing with them,they become useless,however I have a big list of people demanding this LRL becouse friends found gold and silver with PDKs and they want the same LRL for them to try,pherhaps you not believe...maybe you think is coincidence...and people found the objects just by chance...

well,I made many tests with many metal detectors and LRLs,I found many objects with the old Alonsos PD, and PDK-2 and PDK-3, I know when the LRL mark a real spot,no coincidence.

[Qiaozhi]

We don't like to buy "LRL-cats in bags" and the same applies to books so its good to have a few excerpt pages so you can get a real impression, not just the content only.
Chapter 14 begins:

We have already explored several types of long range locator (LRL) in the previ-
ous chapter, but the pistol detector (PD) is a curious beast that warrants a chapter all
to itself. Firstly, the term “pistol detector” does not refer to an ability to detect pistols,
but instead describes the mechanical construction and the way it is held. Traditional
metal detectors have a search coil attached to a long stem that is swept back and forth
across the surface of the ground. In contrast the PD is held at chest height, some con-
siderable distance above the ground, in the manner of a pistol; see Figure 14-1 for a
typical example. The search coil on the device points forwards in a horizontal fashion,
and not downwards. The general idea behind this device is to detect any anomalies,
which may be present in the background electromagnetic noise, which might be asso-
ciated with longtime buried treasure.
It is easy to dismiss LRLs as working by self-deception, because the final recov-
ery is nearly always performed using a conventional metal detector. However, in the
case of the PD, the device incorporates a TR-type detector that can be used to pin-
point the target. Therefore it is difficult to use the same argument as for the other
LRLs, because there is no doubt, in the case of a recovered target, that the PD was
involved. The important question is whether this device has any credibility as an
LRL, or is this just another case of wishful thinking? Note that many LRL proponents
claim the PD is really a medium range locator (MRL) with detecting distances mea-
sured in meters rather than kilometers.
.
.
.
.
.
The chapter continues with a description of the PD, and a discussion of the "phenomenon" that is supposedly associated with longtime buried gold. The TOTeM design begins with the receiver, followed by the TX circuit. There is a short section on the sky and compass effects, and how the overall design is used to detect the anomaly. We then proceed to coil nulling (using a unique technique). Finally we ask the question "But Does it Actually Work?".
Here's a small part of the answer:
The purpose of this project was to develop a “working” experimental platform
for anyone wishing to investigate this grey area of metal detecting. This is a highly
speculative area of research, and there is absolutely no guarantee of success. Remem-
ber... here there be dragons!

The technical descriptions conclude with:
At the very start of this chapter it states “The TOTeM Project”, but what is the
meaning?
Is it?
1. Because
you can see a long way from the top of a totem pole? (ie. A tenuous
reference to long range locating.)
2. An abbreviation of Totally Electromagnetic?
3. Or simply a “Trick Of The Mind”?
Whatever you believe, have fun building and experimenting with this device.

Lastly we end the chapter with full constructional details.

There are 21 pages in Chapter 14, so it's not an empty discussion of PDKs. This was a real attempt at producing a pistol detector from scratch, and not just another clone. It reacts in the same way as the Alonso PD, and offers both passive and active modes, with an audio output that can be turned on or off, LED indication (both analog and digital), and a meter (switchable between slow and fast response). If an anomaly truly exists, then TOTeM should be able to detect it. Now there is nothing stopping anyone building their own PDK for a fraction of the cost of a commercial unit, and then making up their own mind as to whether the phenomenon exists or not.

So, it's up to you!

[nelson]

Hi Qiaozhi

I agree with you and also i will like to ask who design ToTEM schematic?

Regards

Nelson



Funfinder - In order to balance the information provided in Chapter 13 of Inside the METAL DETECTOR, I spent some of my valuable time in investigating the claims of the PDK. My findings were presented in Chapter 14, and resulted in the LRL design referred to as TOTeM. In the same way as HammerHead is a learning platform for PI detectors, and Raptor is a learning platform for VLF, the TOTem pistol detector is designed as an experimental platform for electronic LRLs. Unlike the other designs on this site, all the information is provided. Nothing is hidden, and all the facts are open for everyone to see. The device acts like the PDK, passes all the laboratory tests described throughout this forum, and even appears to following a "signal line" when in use. Whether this will lead you to untold riches is maybe a different story, but at least I've provided you with the tools you need to experiment. A couple of members have started building TOTeM, but so far I've not heard of any results (good or bad). Perhaps they're all lounging around on a desert island enjoying their new found riches. :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Qiaozhi

I agree with you and also i will like to ask who design ToTEM schematic?

Regards

Nelson
I am the designer of the TOTeM project. Many times in this forum skeptics have been accused of having no first-hand knowledge of LRLs, so I decided to remedy the situation and design a pistol detector from first principles. TOTeM is not simply a clone of the Alonso PDK, and is not connected to the work done by Morgan, Geo and others. There are some new ideas in the design to improve coil balancing and increase sensitivity. I make no claims as to the effectiveness of the device in finding longtime buried gold at long (or even medium) range. However, it is (like the Alonso PD) able to detect metal objects at short distances for the purposes of pinpointing. Also, if balanced correctly, it can discriminate between ferrous and non-ferrous targets. Basically, TOTeM is an experimental platform that will allow anyone to explore this grey area of metal detecting for a small amount of money, plus the time required to build the device. You can switch between active or passive modes in order to test the effectiveness of either approach. At times you can appear to be following a "signal Line", but whether this has anything to do with buried treasure is for you to determine. Everything is explained in Chapter 14 of the book, so you are free to modify and improve the design as you wish. The original project was built on stripboard, but Sneshko has designed a PCB to make it even easier to construct. The rest is up to you.

[Fred]

If it not already done, it could be interesting to make the RX coil adjustable in frequency so it could be tuned to some broadcast frequency, like a giant two-boxes.
As you say the TOTeM is an interesting platform.
(But because of the lower case "e", it has to be a "Trick of the mind" :P )

[Qiaozhi]

If it not already done, it could be interesting to make the RX coil adjustable in frequency so it could be tuned to some broadcast frequency, like a giant two-boxes.
As you say the TOTeM is an interesting platform.
(But because of the lower case "e", it has to be a "Trick of the mind" :P )
Remembering that I'm a skeptic ... then TOTeM does in fact mean a Trick Of The Mind.

However, I would like to know what other non-skeptics think. Whether you are skeptical or not, this is an electronic LRL, and therefore should be unaffected by the operator's beliefs. Anyone can take a White's Coinmaster to the park and find buried coins. Believing they're there is not a prerequisite.

[Funfinder]

:lol::lol:

I not supply anything. Not trying to sell anything. What i do, it's just my hobby.
You try to represent Crypton in Europe and make a procurement from them. You try to win against from these lrls.
You're a liar, a hypocrite and a fraud.. Sometimes show opponents of lrls , and sometimes trying to sell lrls... :lol::razz::razz:


Geo, your technical info is near worthless, thats why I call you a mysterious-chandler. You are blocking real scientifical investigations and indirectly protecting the fraud circuits of Mineoro.

If those circuits and devices would be really good, Alonso wouldn't need such cheap tricks to "rob" 10.000s of dollars from people by suggesting them the Mineoro would work as shown or advertised. :angry:

Who do you think you are, together with Morgan the holy grail keepers of the great Mineoro LRL secrets?

You can keep your LRL and your anyway useless knowledge for your self, don't waste my precious time with this crap!





> You try to represent Crypton in Europe

Are you crazy - I'm just very interested in this device because it really seems it works reliable, it has a fair price and it is for sale.

Too bad for greedy mysterious-chandlers who like to make a superbig secret out of their circuits and selfmade-stuff. :lol:

Before I would represent Crypton in Europe I would make scientifical tests how good this device really works. So Geo don't tell cheap fairytale-stories!



> You're a liar, a hypocrite and a fraud.. Sometimes show opponents of lrls , and sometimes trying to sell lrls... :lol::razz::razz:

You must live in a world full of illusions, making such pointless accusations. :nono: Dream on if you can't face the truth. :angry:



> Sometimes show opponents of lrls , and sometimes trying to sell lrls...

Show me where did it tried to sell LRL - you can't!

And of course I am the opponent against fraud LRLs! Do you think I let BS myself from all kind of fraudsters and
liars in this world? For shure not!

Idiots can't fool me, not by religion, not by esoteric and for shure not by nonworking electronical pseudo device crap! :nono:

[Funfinder]

About me, maybe you think I use this forum to sell crap PDKs, but no, I help people to find treasures with PDKs, and if PDKs are BS fraud nobody found nothing with them,they become useless,however I have a big list of people demanding this LRL becouse friends found gold and silver with PDKs and they want the same LRL for them to try,pherhaps you not believe...maybe you think is coincidence...and people found the objects just by chance...

well,I made many tests with many metal detectors and LRLs,I found many objects with the old Alonsos PD, and PDK-2 and PDK-3, I know when the LRL mark a real spot,no coincidence.



Can you imagine that companies like Mineoro and OKM will give the same arguments like you?

They also will say:
We have sold dozens or even hundreds of units and we got alot good feedback,
otherwise our company would have been closed for a long time already.


Talking about extreme sensitivity:

Of course metal objects will change the quality of EM-fields, but on an extremly
low level by natural magnetism, radio stations and other stuff.

You even can measure extremly weak temperature differences on the ground
if there is concrete or old walls below.

A radio-engineer I know put a 3x3m reflector metal-sheet at some mountain
so a person at a shadow region could watch TV.


The big question is:
How reliable is the used technical principle.

Personally I'm absolutly shure you can't built such stuff by DIY !!!
No chance!
You need extremly stabilized circuits, you need PLL synthesizers for
frequency stability, you need chip supervising circuits so the
energy-level will be auto-adjusted to all kind of different
country-environments and much more. The voltage has to
be high stabilized. You even need a special balance circuit
because while walking every step will give a different
detector-ground distance which results in a changing field-level,
not just static, also the usual EM-Field.

Simple test: put a radio on the groundfloor and
on the roof and see the signal-quality difference!


No wonder you and Mineoro have such big problems with
calibration, re-calibration every 10 minutes.

If such a high-sensitivity circuit is not special stabilized,
you will even get problems if the temperature is changing,
because temperature changes the electric attributes of
alot electronical parts, not just batteries.


I know about high-sensitivity, I made my Garrett Pro Pointer
double-sensitive and I work all time with it at this high sens. level,
but it needs special care and a good feeling for whats good and
whats "wrong" signals sometimes.


For me this is no question of "believing", because I know enough
to imagine that it could work under special conditions, but for me
it's a question of reliable usage.

Morgan, if you put already 1000s of hours into the development
or better refinement of that old known circuit and you got now
some "working" results, then I give you my Congratulation
because you have deserved it.

Seen from an technical and universal point of view I think
that whole LRL-thing can't made up this way!

We have millions or billions of satisfied LCD-TV, PS3 and Bluray-player users
throughout this world and we have a hand full of satisfied LRL-device users!

We even have 100.000s of happy metal-detector users !!!

Do you see the correlation or the difference?

Thats why either this stuff has to be made professionally so everyone
is satisfied - or not at all!



Those homebrew LRLs are just a huge source for frustration, time- and moneywasting!

And this Forum should do something against this.

It should help to create either real working LRLs and if
the here posting mysterious-chandlers are not willing to help
they can go home and stop their useless hints and mambo jambo!


Absolutly right, we don't need any "hung science" here and
nothing explaining unreadable micro-circuits BS!

We need no impostors and confidence-tricksters!

Without proofs they can tell they have visited already the
Mars or the Jupiter, its the same story as with their great
LRL success-describtions! Mysterious chandler stories without
any hard evidence!


I have to stop now, I reply later more, sorry Qiaozhi & others!

This "pretty useless LRL topic" consumes too much of my precious time
as long as things here don't change extremly into the real scientifical working direction!

[Funfinder]

@ Qiaozhi

Thanx Qiaozhi for the book excerpt and the double meaning TOTeM abbrevation describtion.


> does not refer to an ability to detect pistols,

Some humor, always good. Doesn't use James Bond 007 golden pistols? ;)



> which may be present in the background electromagnetic noise, which might be asso-
ciated with longtime buried treasure.

That's a good describtion, but with may and might we don't
get any real scientifical step further.


> It is easy to dismiss LRLs as working by self-deception

Absolute full ACK


> because the final recov-
ery is nearly always performed using a conventional metal detector.

This is an indirectly proof LRLs don't work, otherwise it would be possible to reduce the LRLs sensitivity if the treasure-hunter comes near the find!

This issue could be excluded on a special test-field for LRLs where only a few finds are locatable and the test-leader knows these locations.



> However, in the
case of the PD, the device incorporates a TR-type detector that can be used to pin-
point the target.

This is absolutly no good idea, a 2 detectors in one circuit, as long as the LRL detection principle is not clear! And pinpoint-circuit can negativly affect the LRL. A working LRL circuit has the main priority, an additional pinpointing usual detector should be and remain a complete different story.



> Therefore it is difficult to use the same argument as for the other
LRLs, because there is no doubt, in the case of a recovered target, that the PD was
involved.

Such a way of working almost increases self-deception structures!
It blurres the possibility for getting a clear pro or contra LRL result.



> The important question is whether this device has any credibility as an
LRL, or is this just another case of wishful thinking?

Correct, but to solve this question we need better methods.



> Note that many LRL proponents
claim the PD is really a medium range locator (MRL) with detecting distances mea-
sured in meters rather than kilometers.

Even a few meters detection distance are OK as long as it helps to find treasures; of course this distance hast to be better than with 1m coil or 2 box etc.





.
.
.



TOTEM doesn't mean Trick Of The Mind but:

Theoretically maybe Or Totally not working EM-field-detector! :D



> design begins with the receiver, followed by the TX circuit. There is a short section on the sky and compass effects, and how the overall design is used to detect the anomaly. We then proceed to coil nulling (using a unique technique).

Thats good work I can fully underline.




> "But Does it Actually Work?".
Here's a small part of the answer:
The purpose of this project was to develop a “working” experimental platform
for anyone wishing to investigate this grey area of metal detecting. This is a highly
speculative area of research, and there is absolutely no guarantee of success.


Not good, this is the same with Aliens. Huge titel-lines "Yes, there must be Aliens outthere" there are so many billion planets out there, but finally: No, sorry, we have no proofs at all.


> 2. An abbreviation of Totally Electromagnetic?
> 3. Or simply a “Trick Of The Mind”?

If somebody throws a coin in the air and gets head or tales this also is no trick of the mind. It all depends on reliable test conditions and electronical knowledge.



> Whatever you believe, have fun building and experimenting with this device.

The fun would be greater if the motivation for a shure working device would be possible. Thats not the case.



> There are 21 pages in Chapter 14, so it's not an empty discussion of PDKs. This was a real attempt at producing a pistol detector from scratch, and not just another clone.

Good, seems you tried technically your best at that area.



> It reacts in the same way as the Alonso PD, and offers both passive and active modes, with an audio output that can be turned on or off, LED indication (both analog and digital), and a meter (switchable between slow and fast response).

So this means if Morgan builts and tests the TOTeM he will find his test-treasures the same as with his PDK (at all, doesn't matter if not the same good, but it works) ?!



> If an anomaly truly exists, then TOTeM should be able to detect it. Now there is nothing stopping anyone building their own PDK for a fraction of the cost of a commercial unit, and then making up their own mind as to whether the phenomenon exists or not.

> So, it's up to you!



OK, a good argument for electronical experienced treasure-hunters to get this book - but with some exceptions:


The term "phenomenon" suggests an undiscovered secret force-field or other scientifically not granted or known "treasure-aura". Almost like in a fairytale where the cursed treasures shines in the dark.

If it really would be "phenomenon", the PDK and TOTeM also would be phenomenon, a magical device that is capable to detect the so far, on a scientifical basis seen, undetectable.

To make it simple:
For an electronically educated person it should just need one short look at the circuit diagram and he knows what this circuit detects !!!

And if a person has no explanation it will ruin its reputation.

Is the TOTeM circuit a magnetometer? NO - a short look at the schematic and you know it can't be a magnetometer.


Is it a TR or IB metal detector?
Yes, if you have incorporated a second circuit, but thats not really good, cause it has nothing to do with long range detection.


Is it a Long Wave receiver?!

YES, it is! Bingo!


Does it work like those youtube metal-detecors you can built out of an little AM radio?!

YES, it works like that!

Does it detect electrostatic charges?!

NO, because in that case it would need totally different technique.


Does it detect ions?

No, because it is no geiger counter for X-Rays!


Does it works on infra-red basis?

No, it has no infrared receiving diodes.


Does it work with the natural extremly low nature frequency?

No.


Does it work directional?

Yes, but almost the same as an AM-radio with inbuilt ferrite antenna.




I hope this little enumeration makes it clear that there is no place for any obscure "phenomenon"-describtions!

A short look to the receiver-stage and you and any skilled electronic knowing person should or better must know whats get detected and what not!

It would be thousand times better to exclude all not fiting or qualifying "ways of possible detection" and trying to improve and analyze the working one, rather than speaking of "phenomenon".

A person may be able to detect phenomenons with a magic wand (but both is pure fantasy), but not with a device made out of electronical parts. Its also pure wish-thinking detecting ghosts with electrometers.

We must find a clear seperation line between mystical beliefes and real existing and recreatable research-results.

[Funfinder]

I am the designer of the TOTeM project. Many times in this forum skeptics have been accused of having no first-hand knowledge of LRLs, so I decided to remedy the situation and design a pistol detector from first principles. TOTeM is not simply a clone of the Alonso PDK, and is not connected to the work done by Morgan, Geo and others. There are some new ideas in the design to improve coil balancing and increase sensitivity. I make no claims as to the effectiveness of the device in finding longtime buried gold at long (or even medium) range. However, it is (like the Alonso PD) able to detect metal objects at short distances for the purposes of pinpointing. Also, if balanced correctly, it can discriminate between ferrous and non-ferrous targets. Basically, TOTeM is an experimental platform that will allow anyone to explore this grey area of metal detecting for a small amount of money, plus the time required to build the device. You can switch between active or passive modes in order to test the effectiveness of either approach. At times you can appear to be following a "signal Line", but whether this has anything to do with buried treasure is for you to determine. Everything is explained in Chapter 14 of the book, so you are free to modify and improve the design as you wish. The original project was built on stripboard, but Sneshko has designed a PCB to make it even easier to construct. The rest is up to you.


> TOTeM is not simply a clone of the Alonso PDK, and is not connected to the work done by Morgan, Geo and others.

But then - what makes you shure your selfcreated circuit will have any LRL detection capabilities at all? The same or at least some modified "Alonso receiver input-circuits"?


> However, it is (like the Alonso PD) able to detect metal objects at short distances for the purposes of pinpointing.

But this is not the main task for such a device. Every litte 10 bucks DIY-market metal-searcher can used for pinpoint. Morgan and Geo for shure won't be happy if their PDK only works for pinpointing. I hope one of them has tested the TOTeM first so there's at least some small chance it really is able to detect somehow similar the same on longrange as their ovbiously working PDKs.



> At times you can appear to be following a "signal Line", but whether this has anything to do with buried treasure is for you to determine.

Is this the same signal line also Morgan and Geo are evidently able to detect or is this now a complete different one? I hope the TOTeM is not just a simple electro-compass combined with usual TR/IB circuit.

[Geo]

> You try to represent Crypton in Europe

Are you crazy - I'm just very interested in this device because it really seems it works reliable, it has a fair price and it is for sale.

Too bad for greedy mysterious-chandlers who like to make a superbig secret out of their circuits and selfmade-stuff. :lol:

Before I would represent Crypton in Europe I would make scientifical tests how good this device really works. So Geo don't tell cheap fairytale-stories!




You are a Big LIER

Read what you wrote on 10-15-2011

""""We can see here a working LRL that is based on the known principle of electrolytical current EM wave distortion but it also works under moist conditions.
This unit will be produced in Greece in a few weeks/months and I will test and support it for middle europe.

""" :razz::razz::razz:

Also you wrote """The unit will be available for a very fair and low price and it will be a huge improvement for all treasure hunters!"""

Yes//// 4000Euro++, but it is not 5000Euro. So low price for all treasure hunters:lol::lol::lol:

Here the post with your text.......:lol::lol:
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=136589&postcount=1

[Geo]

> Sometimes show opponents of lrls , and sometimes trying to sell lrls...

Show me where did it tried to sell LRL - you can't!



I can.
Again the same post......
http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...89&postcount=1

So are you a Liar or not????

:lol::lol::lol:

[Qiaozhi]

The Alonso PD also has a built-in short range capability in order to pinpoint the target. With TOTeM you can select either active (TX+RX) or passive mode (RX only). This flexibility allows the user to experiment with both options.

As I said previously, there are no guarantees. TOTeM passes all the laboratory tests, and appears to work in the same way as the Alonso PD. So ... does it detect longtime buried gold at long or medium range? ... who knows? ... you might get lucky. :D

[Funfinder]

I can.
Again the same post......
http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...89&postcount=1

So are you a Liar or not????

:lol::lol::lol:

You try to represent Crypton in Europe

Are you crazy - I'm just very interested in this device because it really seems it works reliable, it has a fair price and it is for sale.

Too bad for greedy mysterious-chandlers who like to make a superbig secret out of their circuits and selfmade-stuff. :lol:

Before I would represent Crypton in Europe I would make scientifical tests how good this device really works. So Geo don't tell cheap fairytale-stories!



> You're a liar, a hypocrite and a fraud.. Sometimes show opponents of lrls , and sometimes trying to sell lrls...






Geo, either you are the liar or you must be completly blind!

Stop writing sh*t about me!


> Geo wrote:

> You try to represent Crypton in Europe

I wrote: This unit will be produced in Greece in a few weeks/months and I will test and support it for middle europe.
(in 2011)

Can't you read? :angry:

First, this has to be clear, this unit would must be tested by me,
very serious and strong tests, not comparable with the usual LRL self-deception
others do.

Next, given that I can really take the responsibility to support it,
of course I will help that other treasure hunters will be informed about
this device.

btw. I had no contact with Andreas since 1 year because the infra-structure
and whole business incl. sellable products wasn't made up at this time.

And it may still take a long time until I will have the opportunity to test
either the OBMD-1 or the Mini.


So stop spreading false claims Geo that construct the impression that I would
be some sort of business-representative of Crypton, Greece or you are the liar.


Seems you are just jealous about Andreas because he has success
and he has constructed a LRL device that at least seems to be that reliable
so he can risk it to sell it for money without fear to go into jail for fraud etc.


What do you wanna achieve here in this forum?

Making technical interested people down and steal their time?
It's clear from you no good technical useful info ever will come!


You and hung seems to hate scientific investigation thats why you act so strange
and irrational. Persons like you have not the smallest interrest in giving really useful
info to help builing a real working LRL detector!

And now you even start quoting old texts and try to make it look the content
completly different.

Enough, don't waste my time anylonger here! :angry:

[Funfinder]

The Alonso PD also has a built-in short range capability in order to pinpoint the target. With TOTeM you can select either active (TX+RX) or passive mode (RX only). This flexibility allows the user to experiment with both options.

As I said previously, there are no guarantees. TOTeM passes all the laboratory tests, and appears to work in the same way as the Alonso PD. So ... does it detect longtime buried gold at long or medium range? ... who knows? ... you might get lucky. :D


I understand, but who needs all those mights and maybes!?

If I go into some electronic-shop and the seller tells me:
"Look at this beautiful LCD-TV for 5000 Euros! Switch it on an you might see a picture"
I would ask if he has eaten a clown for breakfast.

Buying the book and tinkering this TOTeM together may costs 100 bucks in total including 10 hours or something of time so no big loss.

But for instance no mental sane person would ask Morgan for a PDK that costs around 500 bucks and he just tells him:
"Thanks for the money but now this is pure luck if you find something!"


We wanna have a clear YES like Morgan seems be indeed able to give after his test with the PDK or a clear NO as Carl is able to give after looking into the boxes of some technically and electronically completly absurd "fraud LRL scam and rip off devices".



OK now lets see it very optimistical - what may be the outcome of this ITMD book if 100 DIY-guys create this TOTeM?

Will we get a representative result in form of:
60 persons found an old object at long distance with this device
40 persons don't
?????

And what would be the worth of such result if no really clever testing-situation was created before? People tell alot stories if the day is long.

Why the hell no one in this forum (besides Morgan) seems to be able to test one of those ******* LRLs if they work or not????????? Give me one of those silly detectors and I will test it for you within 1 day if it has a real worth or not, if it really is capable to find something at long distance!

How long shall this go on in this forum?

In 10 years still nobody here has the slightest clue if it works or not, hmm?

But without me, I have more important to do than listening over and over again to the same unsatisfiying and useless stories!

We have the year 2013, we are flying to the moon and can see the most distant stars,
but finding out if a cheap 40 component circuit works and what it detects is a
book of seven seals and completly impossible ????? Please, come serious.

And the best of it:
There are people out there that throw away 1000s of bucks for such absurd stuff!


I start getting the impression that absolutly NO ONE here in this forum is really interested to find out the truth and the scientifical technical reasons why and if it works or not works! :angry: :angry: :angry:
So the question: Are you interested how LRLs really work? (http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?p=145503#post145503)
is answered!

It starts with our holy-schematic-grail-keepers, goes forward with persons that don't know how to proof if something really works (seting up failproved testfields etc.) and ends with clueless electronic-engineers! And all because of some stupid kindergarten-detection-circuits! :nono:

Absolute ridiculous and unbelievable situation!

Even the ITMD book refuses to give a clear answer.

Not good, because it means that even the pros don't know enough about this important topic. Bad luck for all the treasure hunter amateurs and LRL-interested ones out there. :frown:

[Dell Winders]

But without me, I have more important to do than listening over and over again to the same unsatisfiying and useless stories!

You are absolutely correct about the interests of the people running this forum. They don't want to know the facts. If you can't fool viewers with Scientific nonsense,baffle them with BS. So, Goodbye! :thumb: Dell

[Qiaozhi]

I understand, but who needs all those mights and maybes!?
I'm not sure you do understand.

Remember, I'm a skeptic, and therefore my opinion is that all of these LRLs "work" by a trick of the mind. However, that doesn't stop me providing you with the necessary tools to experiment and make your own decision on the subject. If Morgan and Geo state that their LRLs definitely work, and other people say the opposite, then who will you believe? You have to figure it out for yourself. If you build TOTeM and then find a treasure, what will you believe then? Was it pure chance, or does the phenomenon really exist?

You can continue to ask the same questions again and again, but at the end of the day it's up to you. Do the experiments as I have done, and then you'll know the answer. ;)

Chapter 14 of ITMD provides you with the opportunity to experiment with a pistol detector design for a minimal cost and make up your own mind. That is quite simply its purpose ... nothing more ... and with no guarantees whatsoever. :ninja:

[Funfinder]

You are absolutely correct about the interests of the people running this forum. They don't want to know the facts. If you can't fool viewers with Scientific nonsense,baffle them with BS. So, Goodbye! :thumb: Dell

And such words from you, absolutly fantastic! :D

I think thats the reason why guys like you can have a life on such a basis! You are funny and people like comedy!

They even like the entertainment by a so called LRL no matter if it works or not! Its comparable with a wooden car you play as a child - it also just moves by yourself.

I'm shure there are people out there that can use a wooden car as a LRL by holding one wheel and see in what direction the body of the car moves! :D


Dell, it already starts with the "swinging" construction of your LRL so that no scientific proof ever will be possible. This thing needs a person with muscles who operates it. The whole "bio-energetic" stuff is pure nonsense, otherwise tell us proofs about that needed bio-energy.

[Funfinder]

I'm not sure you do understand.

Remember, I'm a skeptic, and therefore my opinion is that all of these LRLs "work" by a trick of the mind. However, that doesn't stop me providing you with the necessary tools to experiment and make your own decision on the subject. If Morgan and Geo state that their LRLs definitely work, and other people say the opposite, then who will you believe? You have to figure it out for yourself. If you build TOTeM and then find a treasure, what will you believe then? Was it pure chance, or does the phenomenon really exist?

You can continue to ask the same questions again and again, but at the end of the day it's up to you. Do the experiments as I have done, and then you'll know the answer. ;)

Chapter 14 of ITMD provides you with the opportunity to experiment with a pistol detector design for a minimal cost and make up your own mind. That is quite simply its purpose ... nothing more ... and with no guarantees whatsoever. :ninja:

Being skeptic is a must in this world full of criminals, hunting-animals (predators) and exploitation - but finding scientifical discoveries is based on recognition, knowledge, experiments, combining, new developments, improvements and the logical correct structures behind.



Houston, we have a problem - with the TOTeM:

This machine can't work at all, because as we know it from Esteban and others the usual MDs EM-radiation destroys the "phenomenon force field". The TOTeM is like a finger that touches soap-bubbles !!!


> If Morgan and Geo state that their LRLs definitely work, and other people say the opposite, then who will you believe?

The problem is that here in this forum are far to few persons that have real experience with this kind of stuff or that are willing to cooperate on real useful basis.

This here is completly "amateur" or "rookie" liga - professional work looks totally different.


There are some tries to find out on a good basis to discover whats going on like here:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18320

... but we see, how fast such tries end in the gutter! It's very sad, because the topic itself really is fascinating from an exploring of the unknown point of view, the fun to discover interesting and perhaps really win-bringing phenomenons of nature. This always was a motor to push zivilisation and progress.

Just here the progress has come to an halt since a long time!


> > If Morgan and Geo state that their LRLs definitely work, and other people say the opposite, then who will you believe?

Not just "if", they really state that their LRLs are working, together with some others. But how useful is the big question.


btw. those PDK and Mineoro "passive receiver" circuits are not at all detecting metal objects the long range !!!

They only detect some signal-line or way and directly near the treasure they detect nothing more.

Otherwise no 2in1 circuit would be needed.

And this circuit is completly absurd - cause it eliminates the extremly weak "phenomenon-field", and this definitly destroys the chance to find something there at all or on a repeatable basis.


Ooops sorry, I forgot to answer that question:

>>> > If Morgan and Geo state that their LRLs definitely work, and other people say the opposite, then who will you believe?

Practically seen: at the moment I wouldn't risk to buy such a device because there are high chances that it might just work finetuned at their home-locations.

I am not interested to believe things on such a superficial basis!

And I don't accept on a pricinple basis all those stupid secrecy-games, because this is also the tactic of betrayers so they can hide their crimes! Bank-robbers also don't call the police before. :lol:

So first there has to be an open platform for useful experimenting-input and for finding plausible conclusions.

A little magnet can simulate the earth magnetic field and that way the work of a compass can be simulated or tested, the way how it works gets clearer with such experiments.

The same has to be applied to our LRL-issue.


And if all those persons here that tell about experiments and show test videos etc. are not willing to cooperate on a useful basis, they can stop their activity here completly!

Carl Moreland for shure made this forum because of technical interest and not for people that brag about their great LRLs and the rest is a stupid hide and seek childsplay concerning useful information!

For me such behaviour is a personal insult because this is a BS!
They can play such useless games with other people, I am used to work professional and I don't deal with stupid kids and their childish ambitions in making a huge wave and in the end there is nothing behind at all, then there are no hard facts available!

This is here not Hollywood where we wanna see flying saucers in movies. Its about to find out if some special LRL stuff works at all, why and how it can be improved to a reliable and real useful basis.

And the success in that case since 7 years is almost zero - ask why!


It simply excites me, but on a very bad level. :angry:

It's like throwing away money and time and geting nothing in return than again and again, over and over, the same useless crap!

No progress here for the LRL topic, absolutly no progress!


It seems this is made up artifical, because some "LRL guys" don't have the slightest interest someone looks behind the crime-scene.
They wanna trick the police and lawyers even longer and longer.

And some of them just wanna hide that there's nothing than hot air behind their claims, reports and pseudo-detectors.

A person that has nothing to hide also has no problem to give the needed info so everyone is able to prove if that what he says and claims really is true.

But I don't deal with mysterious-chandlers, with suspect individuals, utopians and fantasists. I wanna have success in life, I know what I want and I don't wanna be the victim of all those pseudo-reality-spreaders and manipulateurs out there that go over balance for their own filthy interests.

I'm not talking about any certain or special person in this forum - this was general spoken because the field of LRLs is full of traps, liars and fraudsters AND thats why it is REALLY important that we make it better here for getting really useful results!

The situation is not so bad here. We have around 5-10 guys who are experimenting with LRLs "successfully", 2 or 3 of them on a more ambitious basis, we have some schematics and we even have the possibility to buy such a LRL device (the Crypton Mini) for a relative low price (600 bucks is not much compared with over 10.000 bucks).

So at least I have a little bit hope left that we will get some real meaningful results and findings in the future - it's high time!

[Geo]

Here another member said that Funfinder tried to supply lrls at middle europe:lol::lol:

"""What have we here?
Funfinder still pretending he can't figure it out?
Funfinder tells us he has no problem to steal other peoples private information and use it for commercial venture.
He tells us he will be testing and supporting an LRL for commercial sale in middle Europe.
He even tells us he does not respect copyrights... He thinks it is ok to steal things which have been copyrighted to use for his commercial activities.

Then he tries to blame people who have private information which they don't want him to use in his commercial activities in Europe?

Conjecture? There no conjecture at all.
These are exact words that Funfinder typed in the Geotech forum..!
You cannot erase your words from the Geotech forum.

Funfinder, please tell us what these words mean:""""""

Do you remember funfinder???

Here another old post....
Hi Funfinder,
We see from your first post that you will support your new Greek commercial LRL in middle Europe.
And you are already supporting OKM here in the forum.
It also appears you may support OKM as another of your commercial LRL for middle Europe in your product line.
And we know you believe that "owners rights shall go to hell" from your previous post.
This is the reason that i say you liar and hypocrite.
:lol::lol:

[Qiaozhi]

Houston, we have a problem - with the TOTeM:

This machine can't work at all, because as we know it from Esteban and others the usual MDs EM-radiation destroys the "phenomenon force field". The TOTeM is like a finger that touches soap-bubbles !!!
In that case the Alonso PDK cannot work either, as it is contains an exact copy of the Heathkit GD348, plus a ferrite receiver circuit. :oh:
Anyway, TOTeM has a switch that turns off the transmitter so that it can operate in passive mode. :razz:

btw. those PDK and Mineoro "passive receiver" circuits are not at all detecting metal objects the long range !!!
The PDK contains a transmitter, as stated above, so this is incorrect. This also conflicts with your previous statement. Are you now saying that it must have a transmitter in order to function as an LRL? Previously you stated that it couldn't possibly work if it had one! :lol:

Personally I don't think that any of them actually work, except as a "Trick Of The Mind". Go ahead, order the book, build TOTeM, and then experiment with both the passive and active modes. Then you will know the answers, and won't have to keep asking the same questions ad infinitum.

[Funfinder]

Here another member said that Funfinder tried to supply lrls at middle europe:lol::lol:

"""What have we here?
Funfinder still pretending he can't figure it out?
Funfinder tells us he has no problem to steal other peoples private information and use it for commercial venture.
He tells us he will be testing and supporting an LRL for commercial sale in middle Europe.
He even tells us he does not respect copyrights... He thinks it is ok to steal things which have been copyrighted to use for his commercial activities.

Then he tries to blame people who have private information which they don't want him to use in his commercial activities in Europe?

Conjecture? There no conjecture at all.
These are exact words that Funfinder typed in the Geotech forum..!
You cannot erase your words from the Geotech forum.

Funfinder, please tell us what these words mean:""""""

Do you remember funfinder???

Here another old post....
Hi Funfinder,
We see from your first post that you will support your new Greek commercial LRL in middle Europe.
And you are already supporting OKM here in the forum.
It also appears you may support OKM as another of your commercial LRL for middle Europe in your product line.
And we know you believe that "owners rights shall go to hell" from your previous post.
This is the reason that i say you liar and hypocrite.
:lol::lol:

haaaa haaa haaa, how funny, behaviour like a little child :lol: :lol:


Think what you want, Geo, I don't must defend myself here at all for my opinions and I don't have to give statements about any accusations somebody makes!

Fact is that I am no reseller, nonone who makes business with LRL or all those stupid nonworking ciruits and that I respect copy- and ownerrights only until a reasonable level. Because we see already where it leads - the copyright-idiots wanna reign the internet and wanna rip off people just by putting a stupid somewhere found little jpg picture onto the website.


Respecting the "copyrights" (I doubt it has one :lol: ) of those Alonso circuits would be respecting a tool which is used to commit a crime and so its absurd to respect it.

I would respect this "criminal schematic used for deceiving" if it really works but this is not the case, otherwise you Geo are invited to prove it! I'm shure you can't!

Even Alonso himself didn't respect the copyright of the Heatkit circuit. We can see with Mineoro how "fantastic" :lol: this kind of crap-circuit works, otherwise this guy from Mineoro wouldn't need criminal betrayer-tricks!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

btw. first I wanna see hard evidence that this Alonso circuit has any copyrights etc. at all! I'm shure it has none and therefore it's fully legal to do with this crap whatever wants (their problem if they waste time with it, like you, Geo - how many hours do you have already wasted for this crap?)


Geo, you are paranoid and crazy - you think I will make the big business with your crappy Alonso circuits, you think I give it to Andreas!


The reality is that I don't care about that stupid circuit at all but I wanna get a clear proven YES or NO if LRL really works and I wanna know who are the fraudsters and LRL-works-claim-betrayers!

And people like you with its childish hide and seek games are just a stone in the way! Provide scientifical useful info and stop spreading all kind of claims and accusations!


At least meanwhile we have the proof that the Mineoro are working very bad or not at all, otherwise not such criminal camouflage-tricks would must have been made.


That was it because:

1. I don't need people who throw wrong accusations against me just by pure guess!

2. I don't waste my time with mysterious-chandlers that can't provide any useful and scientifical important contribution.


Ciao Geo, and be careful to respect at least all the treasure-hunting rules in Greece or you could bring yourself into deep trouble... :nono:

[Funfinder]

@ Qiaozhi

> In that case the Alonso PDK cannot work either, as it is contains an exact copy of the Heathkit GD348, plus a ferrite receiver circuit. :oh:

Oh, It contains even an exact copy, very interesting for Geo, our fantastic LRL-schematic-copyright-advocate. :lol:

Well, it was not me who said that the usual metal-detector radiation would destroy the "LRL-phenomenon" - other persons made that discoveries and: more than one!

They even claim that it doesn't work if the ground was moved by machines as its the case when a farmer works on the fields.


> Anyway, TOTeM has a switch that turns off the transmitter so that it can operate in passive mode. :razz:

Unbeatable argument, I must confess! :lol:
Congratulations, this switch has saved the TOTeM. :D




Originally Posted by Funfinder http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?p=145516#post145516)
btw. those PDK and Mineoro "passive receiver" circuits are not at all detecting metal objects the long range !!!


Compare it with a light source:
The closer you come the brighter the light source will be for your eyes. Thats not the LRL case -
suddenly - close to the find - the signal tears apart, goes off.

So if the LRL really would detect the target itself, it would not go off.

And thats why it seems the LRL only is able to detect the distorted field around the object!

btw. this is the perfect argument to defeat a LRL-reseller if he writes on his advertisment that his LRL is able to detect gold from a distance etc.

Because such writing is a proven lie if the detector only is capable to detect some sort of distortion-field around the object and not the object itself!

Hahaha, its great to be clever in this world full of bas***ds to defeat yourself against all those who wanna mess up your own life!

You will also save alot of money while fools get cheated all the way! :lol:


> Are you now saying that it must have a transmitter in order to function as an LRL?

Who cares if the LRL / PDK / Alonso circuit contains a transmitter?
I don't understand - why I should think it must have a transmitter?


> Previously you stated that it couldn't possibly work if it had one! :lol:

Transmitter never was a topic at all, I just wrote that some persons claim that the usual metal detector radiation destroys the "LRL-phenomenon" and therefore this TOTeM construction is highly questionable as a good demonstration or experimenting object.

The TOTeM absolutly needs the following warning sticker:
"Switching to real working metal detecting mode may destroy the LRL-phenomenon-force-field around you!"




> Go ahead, order the book, build TOTeM, and then experiment with both the passive and active modes.


Perhaps the best idea, but now a question to you Qiaozhi only you can answer:

I guess you have built and tested the TOTeM by yourself and after your statements the result concerning LRL-detection is "trick of the mind". For me this indicates that Morgan and Geo are tricked by their own mind because both of them tell us that they get real working results with the same kind of circuit stuff!

Who's right now, you or they?




> Then you will know the answers, and won't have to keep asking the same questions ad infinitum.

I won't ask ad infinium and I think building this stuff by myself is not the only solution to get satisfying answers because we have already more than enough persons out there that have some experience with this kinda stuff.



This forum is for information and we should find at least a way to get the real counting one!

If I would have a really working LRL I would give you all the crucial and important info, I would make serious tests and would answer all the really needed questions! So I don't understand why others refuse their real needed cooperation!
They are destroying the opportunity for everyone for geting needed and imporant results!
Its their fault if persons who read here still buying crappy LRLs because they had no chance geting clear results!

So be useful or go away, all you "LRL story providers" and don't make me sick with your headaches causing mental junkfood!

What is the prognosis for this forum for the year 2020???

Let me guess:
Oh what a shame, still nowbody here has a clue if LRLs proven work or not!

What a poverty-certificate !!!
Congratulations, longRangeLocators Forum!


How cheap is this whole situation?
People who can't prove the LRLs neither OK nor wrong!

[brasilpb]

Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dBNvr7xpQwg

[Morgan]

Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dBNvr7xpQwg

yes,the video show Paulinho Torquato using the FG90 in the beach...