need mfd

[ma330]

I need information about a mfd project.And I need a schematic for mfd.Can anyone help me?

[J_Player]

I need information about a mfd project.And I need a schematic for mfd.Can anyone help me?This is the most often used kind of MFD which some people say they have success with: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/projects/mfd1/index.dat
You can find instructions also for making the rods here: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/projects/lrl1/index.dat
This is the same kind that Dell Winders sells as Omnitron, and many others make copies.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17842&stc=1&d=1327239545

When you finish the circuit you can connect the signal out (+) and (-) to the two brass rods that you push into the ground.
Turn R5 to make adjustment of how much voltage you send to the brass rods.
Turn S2 to switch to different frequency.
S1 is to turn off power.


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[ma330]

This is the most often used kind of MFD which some people say they have success with: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/projects/mfd1/index.dat
You can find instructions also for making the rods here: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/projects/lrl1/index.dat
This is the same kind that Dell Winders sells as Omnitron, and many others make copies.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17842&stc=1&d=1327239545

When you finish the circuit you can connect the signal out (+) and (-) to the two brass rods that you push into the ground.
Turn R5 to make adjustment of how much voltage you send to the brass rods.
Turn S2 to switch to different frequency.
S1 is to turn off power.


Best wishes, :)
J_P
tank you j-p
I know this much about this circuit.
I want to know how to find gold and silver, this circuit helps? What reaction occurs When the probe is connected to the earth?
8038 will produce a sine wave with a frequency 5 kHz and 8.7 kHz.
I believe you instead of the Ic 8038 using a sine wave producing circuit 386, and instead of a transistor amplifier used for current and more
ok?

[J_Player]

tank you j-p
I know this much about this circuit.
I want to know how to find gold and silver, this circuit helps? What reaction occurs When the probe is connected to the earth?
8038 will produce a sine wave with a frequency 5 kHz and 8.7 kHz.
I believe you instead of the Ic 8038 using a sine wave producing circuit 386, and instead of a transistor amplifier used for current and more
ok?Hi ma330,
There are many MFD designs which will put out a frequency.
Some designs use a digital oscillator like a 555 or simple digital gates set to produce square waves.
The preferred method is to use a frequency generator IC that can produce a sine wave.
The 8038 is obsolete, and there are several others that replaced it.
You can also make a transistor amplifier that can produce good sine waves or sloppy sine waves depending on how complicated you want to make it.

Most MFD users think that low power is good, and high power will not work very well for locating metal.
But a few say they like more power.
You could use an audio amplifier connected to the output if you want more power.
But you will probably need an amplifier that uses a higher voltage than most audio amplifiers if you want to pass more current through the ground.
Keep in mind most MFD users think high current is not necessary.
They prefer the 5 volt or 9 volt low power designs that pass small current.

The frequency will not be the exact amount you want.
You will need to make adjustments to the capacitor values at C1 and C2 to until you have the exact frequency you want.
If you are using a function generator IC to make the frequency, and you are using polycarbonate film capacitors, then the frequency will be very stable, and will not change much when the temperature changes.

how to find gold and silver, this circuit helps?
What reaction occurs When the probe is connected to the earth?

Here is what the person who posted that circuit says:

How to use the MFD:
At this point you should be ready to try out the MFD. Insert the two probes into the ground about 2-3 feet apart. Using banana wires connect the probes to the MFD transmitter. Turn on the transmitter and grab the L-rods. Walk a circle (about 10-12 feet out) around the probes until the L-rods cross - you have located a potential signal line. Mark this point. Imagine a line connecting the marked spot and the middle of the probe area. Move farther away (say, 30 feet) along this line and, using the L-rods, try to locate the signal line. Continue moving away from the probes as long as you are able to detect the signal line. Make sure you mark all of your signal hits.

MFD Techniques:
At some point as you move farther away from the probes you will cease detecting the signal line. If you detect a signal line out to a certain distance from the probes but the signal seems to stop, then where it stops should be the location of the target. Before you dig, you can verify this by moving the probes 90 degrees around the target point and triangulating. The target will be at the location where the signal lines cross.

MFD Triangulation:
There are two potential pitfalls with MFDs and both are due to the incredible sensitivity. An MFD has the ability to pick up target signals from as much as 10 miles away, though 1-3 miles is more typical. This means that it can take quite some time and effort to trace out the signal line. Once you have the target pinpointed you may have to face another problem: depth. The MFD can detect targets as deep as 100-200 feet, so locating the target is only half the battle. If a metal detector does not verify the existance of a metal target at the identified location then you should bring in excavation equipment. If no obvious target is found when you reach 200 feet, then the target was most likely subatomic gold particles - you cannot see it and most chemical analyses will not detect it either, but the MFD will.

Be certain to read all of his instructions including the end of what he says for using it and making detection.
He says you should be ready to bring tractors and backhoes to dig a big enough hole to find the buried treasure, because you may have a hard time to find it even if you have metal detectors.

Also read what he says at the end of his project for building the rods:
At this point I hope you have built and tested some of the described LRLs.
They are fascinating devices, not in the sense that they can locate remote buried treasure - which they cannot - but in the effect they can have on the psychology of the user.

According to the designer of this circuit, MFD generators cannot locate treasure.
But if you want to believe it can locate treasure, then I am sure you will find people who will tell you what you want to hear.


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[ma330]

Hi ma330,
There are many MFD designs which will put out a frequency.
Some designs use a digital oscillator like a 555 or simple digital gates set to produce square waves.
The preferred method is to use a frequency generator IC that can produce a sine wave.
The 8038 is obsolete, and there are several others that replaced it.
You can also make a transistor amplifier that can produce good sine waves or sloppy sine waves depending on how complicated you want to make it.

Most MFD users think that low power is good, and high power will not work very well for locating metal.
But a few say they like more power.
You could use an audio amplifier connected to the output if you want more power.
But you will probably need an amplifier that uses a higher voltage than most audio amplifiers if you want to pass more current through the ground.
Keep in mind most MFD users think high current is not necessary.
They prefer the 5 volt or 9 volt low power designs that pass small current.

The frequency will not be the exact amount you want.
You will need to make adjustments to the capacitor values at C1 and C2 to until you have the exact frequency you want.
If you are using a function generator IC to make the frequency, and you are using polycarbonate film capacitors, then the frequency will be very stable, and will not change much when the temperature changes.

how to find gold and silver, this circuit helps?
What reaction occurs When the probe is connected to the earth?

Here is what the person who posted that circuit says:

How to use the MFD:
At this point you should be ready to try out the MFD. Insert the two probes into the ground about 2-3 feet apart. Using banana wires connect the probes to the MFD transmitter. Turn on the transmitter and grab the L-rods. Walk a circle (about 10-12 feet out) around the probes until the L-rods cross - you have located a potential signal line. Mark this point. Imagine a line connecting the marked spot and the middle of the probe area. Move farther away (say, 30 feet) along this line and, using the L-rods, try to locate the signal line. Continue moving away from the probes as long as you are able to detect the signal line. Make sure you mark all of your signal hits.

MFD Techniques:
At some point as you move farther away from the probes you will cease detecting the signal line. If you detect a signal line out to a certain distance from the probes but the signal seems to stop, then where it stops should be the location of the target. Before you dig, you can verify this by moving the probes 90 degrees around the target point and triangulating. The target will be at the location where the signal lines cross.

MFD Triangulation:
There are two potential pitfalls with MFDs and both are due to the incredible sensitivity. An MFD has the ability to pick up target signals from as much as 10 miles away, though 1-3 miles is more typical. This means that it can take quite some time and effort to trace out the signal line. Once you have the target pinpointed you may have to face another problem: depth. The MFD can detect targets as deep as 100-200 feet, so locating the target is only half the battle. If a metal detector does not verify the existance of a metal target at the identified location then you should bring in excavation equipment. If no obvious target is found when you reach 200 feet, then the target was most likely subatomic gold particles - you cannot see it and most chemical analyses will not detect it either, but the MFD will.

Be certain to read all of his instructions including the end of what he says for using it and making detection.
He says you should be ready to bring tractors and backhoes to dig a big enough hole to find the buried treasure, because you may have a hard time to find it even if you have metal detectors.

Also read what he says at the end of his project for building the rods:
At this point I hope you have built and tested some of the described LRLs.
They are fascinating devices, not in the sense that they can locate remote buried treasure - which they cannot - but in the effect they can have on the psychology of the user.

According to the designer of this circuit, MFD generators cannot locate treasure.
But if you want to believe it can locate treasure, then I am sure you will find people who will tell you what you want to hear.


Best wishes, :)
J_P
Excellent j-p
Thank you for your useful information.
I suggest you do the work for voltage output, 5 to 9 volts?A sine wave oscillator and amplifier with low power for the common good?
Using a sine wave oscillator with two outputs and the ground What is it?
I completely did not understand some parts:
How to use the MFD:..............
MFD Techniques: .............
MFD Triangulation:.........................
It is possible for you to show me parts of the graphics?Painting?
The best moment for you:)

[J_Player]

Excellent j-p
Thank you for your useful information.
I suggest you do the work for voltage output, 5 to 9 volts?A sine wave oscillator and amplifier with low power for the common good?
Using a sine wave oscillator with two outputs and the ground What is it?
I completely did not understand some parts:
How to use the MFD:..............
MFD Techniques: .............
MFD Triangulation:.........................
It is possible for you to show me parts of the graphics?Painting?
The best moment for you:)The circuit you see above is already a low power circuit which puts out a sine wave and does not need modifications.
You can adjust the voltage at R5 from zero volts to nearly 18 volts.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ma330]

The circuit you see above is already a low power circuit which puts out a sine wave and does not need modifications.
You can adjust the voltage at R5 from zero volts to nearly 18 volts.

Best wishes,
J_P
tank you j-p
I completely did not understand some parts:
How to use the MFD:..............
MFD Techniques: .............
MFD Triangulation:.........................
It is possible for you to show me parts of the graphics?Painting?
The best moment for you:)

[J_Player]

tank you j-p
I completely did not understand some parts:
How to use the MFD:..............
MFD Techniques: .............
MFD Triangulation:.........................
It is possible for you to show me parts of the graphics?Painting?
The best moment for you:)MFD does not find treasure, so it does not matter how you use it ... all methods of using MFD will be good for locating nothing.
Even though I am telling you that no MFD generator will locate treasure for you, I know you will not believe me, and you will want to find someone who tells you it will find treasure.
So I will print below what the instructions in the project say to give instructions for finding treasure

The text for using the MFD project says you should turn on the power then connect the wires from the MFD box (+) and (-) to the two brass rods that you push in the ground 30-100cm apart.
Then hold the two L rods in your hands and walk in a circle around the two brass rods in the ground. (radius of your circle should be 3-4 meters).
Watch for when the two rods move to cross together.
When you see the rods move together, you have found a signal line.
If you find more than one place on your circle where the rods cross, then make a mark on the ground where it is so you can come back and check later.

Next you can pick one signal line and walk away from the two brass rods to follow it and see where it will go.
You must find where the end of the signal line is.
So you follow it until it ends.
When you reach a location where the signal line stops, then this is where the treasure is.
Stop at this point and dig for your treasure.

If you are not sure you have the exact correct treasure location, then you can use triangulation to check to see if it is the correct location.
To make a triangulation check, you can move the MFD and the two brass rods to a now place to put them in the ground.
Then follow the signal line again using your L- rods to see where the signal line ends.
You should see it ends the same place as the earlier location.
Then you can repeat the check by moving the MFD to many locations.
From each location you should find the signal line ends in the same treasure location where you can dig a hole to find your treasure.

As long as you know you will not find treasure, then you will not mind to dig holes to see if it works or not.

See below for the graphics that show the parts of the MFD generator.
Best wishes, J_P :)

[ma330]

tank you very much dear j-p for information
It is incomprehensible to me after finding the cross point.
What should be done after the signal line?
And the triangular points.
If it is possible to specify a graphic for me?Painting?
best wish for you:)

[J_Player]

tank you very much dear j-p for information
It is incomprehensible to me after finding the cross point.
What should be done after the signal line?
And the triangular points.
If it is possible to specify a graphic for me?Painting?
best wish for you:)Here is a graphic that shows what to do when you use MFD.

Best wishes, :) J_P

[WM6]

Here is a graphic that shows what to do when you use MFD.

Best wishes, :) J_P



Excellent MFD user instructions J_P. Thank you.

Please, help me, help me, with that one MFD.

PS: Hey are you sure that counterclockwise walking can lead to such a huge nugget?

[J_Player]

Excellent MFD user instructions J_P. Thank you.

Please, help me, help me, with that one MFD.

PS: Hey are you sure that counterclockwise walking can lead to such a huge nugget?It is best to walk clockwise if you are in the southern hemisphere... (Brazil, Paraguay, Australia), but counterclockwise is best for north of the equator.
In Ecuador, maybe you cannot use MFD to find nuggets.


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[J_Player]

tank you very much dear j-p for information
It is incomprehensible to me after finding the cross point.
What should be done after the signal line?
And the triangular points.
If it is possible to specify a graphic for me?Painting?
best wish for you:)Here is a graphic that shows how to use triangulation.

Best wishes, J_P

[ma330]

tank you very much j-p for useful information

[Dedevil]

Sorry but forgot who rally i am?
Last wrotey in other broken lanuage wiff other name Sincs accident have may name on this forum like tank you j-p
I know this much about this circuit.
I want to know how to find gold and silver, this circuit helps? What reaction occurs When the probe is connected to the earth?
8038 will produce a sine wave with a frequency 5 kHz and 8.7 kHz.
I believe you instead of the Ic 8038 using a sine wave producing circuit 386, and instead of a transistor amplifier used for current and more
ok?
Oh Carl You have lost it:(:(:(:(:(

[nelson]

Hi J_Player

Thanks for such good graph explanation on how MFD works.

Later i will look forward to build a good MFD. Do you have any ideas or do you know if i can build it from a signal genarator? What voltage must a signal generator needs to work has MFD?
Ebay shows a lot of signals generators, but some of these are not stable.
Any help will be appreciated.
Finally, looking from your expirence, do you know if MFD really works, cause i had read in the past multiple expirencies, but this confuse me and i think is good to know from some people that had tried this devices.

Best regards

Nelson



Here is a graphic that shows how to use triangulation.

Best wishes, J_P

[michael]

Hi dear J-P.
Appreciable efforts to draw these illustrations. thank you, but in one image you have mentioned this statement:
"Electronic instruments cannot the MFD signal from more than 10 Cm distance from the brass probes in the ground."

I should tell that I seriously object to this part of your statements; it's not right. :nono:
I have one of these MFDs made by Notsi(Bulgarian) I don't know you remember or not.
At that time(6-7 years ago) I borrowed one portable frequency meter from my e.e. friend to check signal output and distance of signal traveling. I remember well it could show the exact frequency set on transmitter for 2 meters beyond MFD probes, even when I put frequency-meter probes in a very thick ceramic vase inserted into soil it could easily penetrate to thick ceramic.
My e.e friend said: " this is an ordinary Fr-meter, I'm sure if use a sensitive Fr-meter you can detect sent signal so much more than this".

Best Regards.

[J_Player]

Hi dear J-P.
Appreciable efforts to draw these illustrations. thank you, but in one image you have mentioned this statement:
"Electronic instruments cannot the MFD signal from more than 10 Cm distance from the brass probes in the ground."

I should tell that I seriously object to this part of your statements; it's not right. :nono:
I have one of these MFDs made by Notsi(Bulgarian) I don't know you remember or not.
At that time(6-7 years ago) I borrowed one portable frequency meter from my e.e. friend to check signal output and distance of signal traveling. I remember well it could show the exact frequency set on transmitter for 2 meters beyond MFD probes, even when I put frequency-meter probes in a very thick ceramic vase inserted into soil it could easily penetrate to thick ceramic.
My e.e friend said: " this is an ordinary Fr-meter, I'm sure if use a sensitive Fr-meter you can detect sent signal so much more than this".

Best Regards.Hi Michael,
It is good to hear that your friend measured the signal from your MFD signal generator at some distance. I am very interested to know the details.

If you look at my diagram, you can see that I am talking about the distance which the signal can be detected in the ground.
The last time I made measurements, I took precautions to insure that I was not measuring any airborne signals.
I set up the equipment to measure only the underground signal that was being sent from the probes that were pushed into the ground.
I used high impedance shielded probes to make my measurements in order to detect the tiniest signals, while blocking out any VLF/ULF broadcast that could be coming through the air from the wires of the signal generator.
I also made sure my instruments were grounded to an earth ground, and I took precautions to shield any airborne electronic noise from the instruments that were measuring the signal.
The sensor I used was another metal probe pushed into the ground at various distances from the MFD probes.
The shielding included the probe, which were shielded to the point where it was beneath the surface of the ground before the unshielded part of the probe was exposed to the soil.
My intention was to see how far the signal traveled from the probes in a manner that this frequency could be detected at a distance.
The idea was to determine if any amount of power coming from the MFD probes could reach a distant buried metal object to cause it to make a detectable emission from the metal.

The signal generator I used was sending out a 5v signal, not as much voltage as the maximum that you can get from circuit above.
In most cases I was able to detect the signal from the probes a few cm distance, but I found a limit that I could detect the signal at about 5cm distance.
There were a few occasions where I could detect it as far as 10cm, but the signal was lost in a lot of other larger electronic noises, as I was measuring signals that were small fractions of 0.1uv.
When I checked the buried metal object 10 feet distance, I found none of the signal generator signal at all... not even when the probe was in contact with the buried metal.

I can also tell you that when I removed the sensor probe from the ground, I could pick up a lot of electronic noise from the air which changed when the probe was moved around to different locations in the air.

If your e.e. friend made this same kind of measurement, I would be very interested to know what kind of probes he used on his meter, and what kind of grounding and shielding he did to make this detection.
Actually I would like to know how to reproduce his test setup so I can see how he measured the signal at this distance.
My guess is he was measuring the signal that broadcast through the air, either from the MFD generator connecting wires, or RF from the probes coming out of the vase and into the air.

We know that when you push ground probes in the ground, a small amount of power is sent to the soil, and another part of the power is sent from the connecting wires into the air as a VLF or ULF broadcast.
And we know that frequencies these VLF/ULF frequencies can be broadcast into the air with little power so they can be easily detected at distances.
It is a common practice to detect a signal generator frequency across a workshop using a small loop to broadcast the signal and a second small loop to pick up the signal from an instrument that can measure small voltages.
But these coils are not always necessary, because the test leads and the wires coming from the signal generator can act as broadcasting antennas.
In practice, a VLF/ULF signal from a frequency generator can be detected at various distances depending on the exact way the wires are plugged into the generator and the receiver.
This is the reason I took precautions to eliminate as much of the signal that might be broadcast through the air, so I could observe only the signal that was traveling through the ground from the probes.
In general, any kind of unshielded wire plugged into a signal generator can broadcast some RF into the air that can be detected at various distances depending on how long the wire and how it is positioned.
But the more efficient method to send and detect these VLF/ULF signal generator signals from the air is to connect a coil to the two wires on the signal generator and a second coil to the receiving instrument.

If you have any information to show how to set up the equipment to detect an MFD signal at long distances, it would be good for you to post this information so we all can know how it was done,

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Detecting a signal

[goldfinder]

Here is a graphic that shows what to do when you use MFD.

Best wishes, :) J_P[
================
J_P
That is the funniest graphic I've seen in a long time but accurate at to technique. That "nugget" if it was real would probably weigh a 1000 pounds or more and that guy (you ?) would have a hernia bigger than the nugget. :)

Thanks for laugh,
Goldfinder

[goldfinder]

tank you very much j-p for useful information

It is obvious you don't know anything about electronics or you are playing dumb. Why don't you have someone build the MFD for you. I'll do it for $125 USD and throw in a pair of dowsing rods for grins. J_P could do it too! That is at least $800 less that buying one from the MFD rip off con artists or KellyCo.

Goldfinder.

[J_Player]

Hi J_Player

Thanks for such good graph explanation on how MFD works.

Later i will look forward to build a good MFD. Do you have any ideas or do you know if i can build it from a signal genarator? What voltage must a signal generator needs to work has MFD?
Ebay shows a lot of signals generators, but some of these are not stable.
Any help will be appreciated.
Finally, looking from your expirence, do you know if MFD really works, cause i had read in the past multiple expirencies, but this confuse me and i think is good to know from some people that had tried this devices.

Best regards

NelsonHi Nelson,
I do not believe MFD can help to find treasure.
The explanations I posted above are illustrations to show ma330 what MFD users say is the correct way to use MFD.
These are not methods that I recommend.

I have never seen any MFD work.
My experience in using MFD is I could locate nothing.
Of course, other MFD users will say I do not know the correct method to locate when using MFD.
These other MFD users say MFD works.
But these same people will not demonstrate an MFD to work in front of skeptical witnesses to show how they can locate buried metal items.
Maybe they work, but I have never seen any real evidence that this is true.
And I see that every MFD user has declined to demonstrate that they work for finding buried metals.
The MFD users only tell stories of how far they detect things, but do not want to show their detection of unknown buried metals in public.

Isn't this much different than people who use metal detectors, who will easily demonstrate how their metal detectors will locate metal exactly as the manufacturer says they will?


I do not think MFD can locate any buried things.
But I think it is a good idea for anyone who wants to know how well they work to build one and try it out to see for themselves how well it works or does not work.
You can build the circuit above and see how well this works.
This circuit is better than most of the commercial designs, because it has an output control that allows you to adjust to more or less power levels than most of the commecial MFDs.
The circuit above can be adjusted to any voltage you want, from 0v to nearly 18v, while most of the commercial MFD generators have no control for the output voltage.
This means you can experiment with different voltages that expensive commercial units cannot achieve to see what works best for your conditions.
The design above has one limitation... the two timing capacitors C1 and C2 are fixed, so they will produce only two output frequencies, which may not be the exact frequencies you want.
You can make a substitution for a variable capacitor to adjust the frequency if you want to use different frequencies than you get from these capacitors.
Or you can make the switch to select more than only two capacitors, and you will have many frequencies available -- one for each capacitor.
(This is the method that the Dell Omnitron MFD uses).
Or if you think the exact frequency is important, you could switch to a completely different design that allows easy adjustment to set an exact frequency.
These are usually digital frequency generators that use a crystal to keep the frequency stable.
But remember, Tim Williams (LRL Man) http://lrlman.com/ says the frequency does not need to be exact.

If you build a frequency generator and try it out, you may find the same as I found... that it detects nothing.
Or you may find big treasure... who knows?
Why not try it out and see for yourself?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[J_Player]

Here is a graphic that shows what to do when you use MFD.

Best wishes, :) J_P[
================
J_P
That is the funniest graphic I've seen in a long time but accurate at to technique. That "nugget" if it was real would probably weigh a 1000 pounds or more and that guy (you ?) would have a hernia bigger than the nugget. :)

Thanks for laugh,
GoldfinderHi goldfinder,
That nugget is real... It is a photo of a nugget that was found in California.
However, I magnified it to fit the picture. http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17599&stc=1&d=1323729073

You are exactly correct... that size nugget in the graphic weighs about 1000 pounds, which is a little too heavy for that guy to hold by himself.
It reminds me of a story from the 1800s in California where a stage coach company got tired of being robbed every time they transported gold from Sacramento prospectors to the mint in San Francisco.
So they melted the gold into a ball the size of a bowling ball.
Then the next time they were held up, the bandits couldn't pick up the gold ball to load on their horses.
So they rode off hollering obscenities at the stage coach driver.

Incidentally, I noticed a strange phenomenon since I posted that illustration...
Whenever you show gold in connection with locating equipment, everybody seems to get very interested regardless of whether there is any evidence that the gold is somehow connected with the equipment.
Maybe this is a principle used in LRL advertising. :rolleyes:


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[J_Player]

It is obvious you don't know anything about electronics or you are playing dumb. Why don't you have someone build the MFD for you. I'll do it for $125 USD and throw in a pair of dowsing rods for grins. J_P could do it too! That is at least $800 less that buying one from the MFD rip off con artists or KellyCo.

Goldfinder.That's a pretty good price for a hand-built and tested circuit, complete with enclosure. Rods are pure icing on the cake.
I don't think I could do it... I would become nauseated shortly after I began soldering the parts on the board.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Fred]

I am feeling strange...Nauseous and hilarious at the same time.

[michael]

Hi Michael,
It is good to hear that your friend measured the signal from your MFD signal generator at some distance. I am very interested to know the details.

If you look at my diagram, you can see that I am talking about the distance which the signal can be detected in the ground.
The last time I made measurements, I took precautions to insure that I was not measuring any airborne signals.
I set up the equipment to measure only the underground signal that was being sent from the probes that were pushed into the ground.
I used high impedance shielded probes to make my measurements in order to detect the tiniest signals, while blocking out any VLF/ULF broadcast that could be coming through the air from the wires of the signal generator.
I also made sure my instruments were grounded to an earth ground, and I took precautions to shield any airborne electronic noise from the instruments that were measuring the signal.
The sensor I used was another metal probe pushed into the ground at various distances from the MFD probes.
The shielding included the probe, which were shielded to the point where it was beneath the surface of the ground before the unshielded part of the probe was exposed to the soil.
My intention was to see how far the signal traveled from the probes in a manner that this frequency could be detected at a distance.
The idea was to determine if any amount of power coming from the MFD probes could reach a distant buried metal object to cause it to make a detectable emission from the metal.

The signal generator I used was sending out a 5v signal, not as much voltage as the maximum that you can get from circuit above.
In most cases I was able to detect the signal from the probes a few cm distance, but I found a limit that I could detect the signal at about 5cm distance.
There were a few occasions where I could detect it as far as 10cm, but the signal was lost in a lot of other larger electronic noises, as I was measuring signals that were small fractions of 0.1uv.
When I checked the buried metal object 10 feet distance, I found none of the signal generator signal at all... not even when the probe was in contact with the buried metal.

I can also tell you that when I removed the sensor probe from the ground, I could pick up a lot of electronic noise from the air which changed when the probe was moved around to different locations in the air.

If your e.e. friend made this same kind of measurement, I would be very interested to know what kind of probes he used on his meter, and what kind of grounding and shielding he did to make this detection.
Actually I would like to know how to reproduce his test setup so I can see how he measured the signal at this distance.
My guess is he was measuring the signal that broadcast through the air, either from the MFD generator connecting wires, or RF from the probes coming out of the vase and into the air.

We know that when you push ground probes in the ground, a small amount of power is sent to the soil, and another part of the power is sent from the connecting wires into the air as a VLF or ULF broadcast.
And we know that frequencies these VLF/ULF frequencies can be broadcast into the air with little power so they can be easily detected at distances.
It is a common practice to detect a signal generator frequency across a workshop using a small loop to broadcast the signal and a second small loop to pick up the signal from an instrument that can measure small voltages.
But these coils are not always necessary, because the test leads and the wires coming from the signal generator can act as broadcasting antennas.
In practice, a VLF/ULF signal from a frequency generator can be detected at various distances depending on the exact way the wires are plugged into the generator and the receiver.
This is the reason I took precautions to eliminate as much of the signal that might be broadcast through the air, so I could observe only the signal that was traveling through the ground from the probes.
In general, any kind of unshielded wire plugged into a signal generator can broadcast some RF into the air that can be detected at various distances depending on how long the wire and how it is positioned.
But the more efficient method to send and detect these VLF/ULF signal generator signals from the air is to connect a coil to the two wires on the signal generator and a second coil to the receiving instrument.

If you have any information to show how to set up the equipment to detect an MFD signal at long distances, it would be good for you to post this information so we all can know how it was done,

Best wishes, :)
J_P
Hi dear J-P.
my e.e friend had given it to me. I had it for few months.
it was a small box with a small display for digits and had 2 type sensor; one type was for receiving air waves that got and antenna, in this option it couldn't get any signal from soil or with connection to ground.
Another sensor type had 2 output for 2 wires with alligator head which connected to wave source( MFD probes). in this option it couldn't get any signal from air
as I had tested it frequently; both wires should be connected to somewhere.

In the test which I mentioned above I personally made it with wires( I call it ground mode).
It was essential for me to know if these kind of waves ( radio) generated by a MFD could ever travel through ground or not.
so I plugged each alligator into an iron rod and planted in ground and as mentioned could get signal up to 2 meters beyond not more.
Unfortunately I don't know more about that device technical details. just know my friend called it " portable frequency meter".

[J_Player]

Hi dear J-P.
my e.e friend had given it to me. I had it for few months.
it was a small box with a small display for digits and had 2 type sensor; one type was for receiving air waves that got and antenna, in this option it couldn't get any signal from soil or with connection to ground.
Another sensor type had 2 output for 2 wires with alligator head which connected to wave source( MFD probes). in this option it couldn't get any signal from air
as I had tested it frequently; both wires should be connected to somewhere.

In the test which I mentioned above I personally made it with wires( I call it ground mode). m
It was essential for me to know if these kind of waves ( radio) generated by a MFD could ever travel through ground or not.
so I plugged each alligator into an iron rod and planted in ground and as mentioned could get signal up to 2 meters beyond not more.
Unfortunately I don't know more about that device technical details. just knowy friend called it " portable frequency meter".
Thank you michael,
This is good information to know.
From what you say, you were using a Notsi Mole LRL 2000D frequency generator to make the signal for ground probes, and a portable frequency counter to detect the signal.
According to the Notsi literature, this frequency generator uses two 12v batteries, and a micro controller to create the frequency. They don't really say what maximum voltage is put out (probably is less than 24v), but it says you can control the voltage, and it can reach a distance of 5Km and 60 meters deep into the ground. It also does not say what frequency range it sends out, but it has 6 frequencies programmed for lead, gold, aluminum, silver, brass, bronze, diamonds and iron. Also you can program 7 of your own frequencies.

I am guessing the frequency meter you used is a portable battery operated frequency counter that has an aerial antenna and two test probes with alligator clips, that do not have a shield.
From what you say, you got no signal except when you tried at a way you call ground mode.
I have difficulty to understand how you connected the two alligator clip leads.
From what I read it sounds like you dropped both alligator clip wires into a vase that you buried in the ground.
It seems like there are too many details missing for me to determine what the signal path was exactly.
But I believe you made some detection at the distance you say.
Maybe if we learn the voltage and frequency at the MFD probes and the distance they were set apart, and exactly where each of the two frequency counter probes were connected to, we would have some idea how to make a similar test.

Also, as I recall, the ground moisture changes the detection distance too.

One question:
Did your Bulgarian locator work to locate any treasures?


Best wishses, :)
J_P

[michael]

Thank you michael,
This is good information to know.
From what you say, you were using a Notsi Mole LRL 2000D frequency generator to make the signal for ground probes, and a portable frequency counter to detect the signal.
According to the Notsi literature, this frequency generator uses two 12v batteries, and a micro controller to create the frequency. They don't really say what maximum voltage is put out (probably is less than 24v), but it says you can control the voltage, and it can reach a distance of 5Km and 60 meters deep into the ground. It also does not say what frequency range it sends out, but it has 6 frequencies programmed for lead, gold, aluminum, silver, brass, bronze, diamonds and iron. Also you can program 7 of your own frequencies. J_P

Hi J_P
yes, that's right.
it has no output range, just 6 preset output frequency + those 7 funny user-set options.
I don't remember exactly LRL2000D wave voltage. just know Notsi LRL2000D amp is TDA7294. I think have put the info somewhere in this forum.
After that my friend made one radio frequency generator with very vast frequency range (from 1Hz to 500KHz) I remember its' amp was STK435. my test result for this one was the same as Notsi LRL.

I am guessing the frequency meter you used is a portable battery operated frequency counter that has an aerial antenna and two test probes with alligator clips, that do not have a shield.
From what you say, you got no signal except when you tried at a way you call ground mode.
yes, that's right.

I have difficulty to understand how you connected the two alligator clip leads.
From what I read it sounds like you dropped both alligator clip wires into a vase that you buried in the ground.
No, As I wrote, I planted two iron rod in ground and plugged each alligator to each one.

But I believe you made some detection at the distance you say.
Yes, it could be detectable in all directions/paths

Maybe if we learn the voltage and frequency at the MFD probes and the distance they were set apart, and exactly where each of the two frequency counter probes were connected to, we would have some idea how to make a similar test.
I checked for each frequency, all were detectable up to 2 meters.
MFD probes distance was ordinary; 30-40 Cm. had no difference in result.
FR-counter probes distance also were close; 20, 30 or 40 Cm.

One question:
Did your Bulgarian locator work to locate any treasures?
No, never and ever.

Best Wishes.

[ma330]

hi j-p
Should bars(lrods) be insulated?Or non-insulated?

[J_Player]

hi j-p
Should bars(lrods) be insulated?Or non-insulated?Hi ma330,
I don't know the answer to that question.
I usually see the handles are not insulated, and they are made to be conducting to the rods, so your hands will make electrical contact with the handles and the rods.
The non-insulated version permits you to connect a separate oscillator circuit to the rods if you are building a design that has both a ground probe oscillator and a rod oscillator.

But I have seen some designs where the rods are placed in insulated handles.


If I were to guess, I would think you do not want to insulate the rods from your hands.
You could build the non-insulated version.
Then if you want to change to insulated, you can simply attach some plastic tubing around the handles so your hands will not contact the metal.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Fred]

You could build the non-insulated version.
Then if you want to change to insulated, you can simply attach some plastic tubing around the handles so your hands will not contact the metal.
Best wishes, :)
J_P

That makes sense to me...

[ma330]

The non-insulated version permits you to connect a separate oscillator circuit to the rods if you are building a design that has both a ground probe oscillator and a rod oscillator.
J_P
tank you j-p
Can you give me a separate oscillator circuit for bars without insulation?
For a frequency of 5 kHz and 8.7 kHz:)

[J_Player]

tank you j-p
Can you give me a separate oscillator circuit for bars without insulation?
For a frequency of 5 kHz and 8.7 kHz:)You can use the same circuit you see above for the second oscillator.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Dedevil]

It would help if jp knew how to use the mfd before writing the user instructions.

The output from the circuit above is not intended to be used via connection to ground probes. So of course jp says it doesn't work.

Anyone can write user manuals but unless you know and understand how to use something problems like this can occur.

Makes me wonder who wrote the user instructions for this....jp?
http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2012/01/14/1226244/512502-italy-cruise-aground.jpg

[ma330]

You can use the same circuit you see above for the second oscillator.

Best wishes, :)
J_P
The oscillator is used to it somehow?
Please show me a painting

[J_Player]

The oscillator is used to it somehow?
Please show me a paintingUsually there is no oscillator connected to the rods.
But if you want to connect an oscillator for a frequency of 5 kHz and 8.7 kHz, then you can make the electrical connections with the method you see below.
The + and - wires that are normally connected to the ground probes can be connected as shown.

http://www.geotech1.com/pages/lrl/reports/vr800/vr800_11.jpg


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[J_Player]

Hi J_P
yes, that's right.
it has no output range, just 6 preset output frequency + those 7 funny user-set options.
I don't remember exactly LRL2000D wave voltage. just know Notsi LRL2000D amp is TDA7294. I think have put the info somewhere in this forum.
After that my friend made one radio frequency generator with very vast frequency range (from 1Hz to 500KHz) I remember its' amp was STK435. my test result for this one was the same as Notsi LRL.

I am guessing the frequency meter you used is a portable battery operated frequency counter that has an aerial antenna and two test probes with alligator clips, that do not have a shield.
From what you say, you got no signal except when you tried at a way you call ground mode.
yes, that's right.

I have difficulty to understand how you connected the two alligator clip leads.
From what I read it sounds like you dropped both alligator clip wires into a vase that you buried in the ground.
No, As I wrote, I planted two iron rod in ground and plugged each alligator to each one.

But I believe you made some detection at the distance you say.
Yes, it could be detectable in all directions/paths

Maybe if we learn the voltage and frequency at the MFD probes and the distance they were set apart, and exactly where each of the two frequency counter probes were connected to, we would have some idea how to make a similar test.
I checked for each frequency, all were detectable up to 2 meters.
MFD probes distance was ordinary; 30-40 Cm. had no difference in result.
FR-counter probes distance also were close; 20, 30 or 40 Cm.

One question:
Did your Bulgarian locator work to locate any treasures?
No, never and ever.

Best Wishes.Hi Michael,
Now it begins to make sense that you measured a signal in the ground much farther than I did.
The TDA7294 in your Bulgarian locator is a 100 Watt amplifier running at 24 volts.
Interestingly enough, this is an audio amplifier intended for high power home stereo sound systems.
And the specs are quite good for an integrated amplifier.
When putting out 50 watts of power, the maximum harmonic distortion is 0.1% over a range from 20Hz to 20 KHz.
This means if you put a very clean sine wave into this IC, it will deliver a very clean sine wave out, except at a much higher power level.
The best part is you don't need to build huge circuit board full of transistors to attain this power.
It is all contained inside the single IC. You simply add a few resistors and capacitors around the TDA7294.
But if you connect the TDA7294 in a way that allows it to put out a full 100 watts of power, then you will need a good size heat sink to dissipate the heat that comes from the IC.

I don't know how the power was transferred from the TDA7294 to the ground in your in your LRL5000D, but I am guessing they connected directly from the output terminals to ground probes.
If this is the case, your ground probes reached nearly 24v peaks, which partly explains how you could find your MFD signal at a greater distance.
Most other commercial MFD oscillators run at 5v or 9v.
But another very big thing that can change the distance you can measure this frequency in the ground depends on the ground conductivity and the distance your ground probes are separated from each other.

In any case, the extra distance you could measure the oscillator signal did not seem to have any effect that helped to find buried treasures.
But this IC could be useful for people who believe that more power is better.
I imagine you could find the ground signal is detectable at even greater distances if you were to match the output impedance to the ground.
This would be easy to do with a transformer.
But I would not expect to see any change in your results if you were to go to the trouble to try it.


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Dedevil]

I believe he is just holding his own hand and trying to lead us all down his golden path.
http://pointsouth.com/dixiemart/valframe/hadley/white/down-garden-path.jpg
It's an audio amplifier and nothing to do with l rods unless you connect the output to a speaker and give the ground a sonic blast.
Don't Laugh! This system is actually used for offshore geophysical detection. But the blasts are much louder.
rgds

[J_Player]

It turns out this TDA7294 amplifier is even more interesting than I thought.
Aside from being a very low distortion high power amplifier, it runs on a dual power supply that the signal generator IC can share with it.
This means you can use the two 12v batteries like Michael has in his Bulgarian LRL to run both the TDA7294 power amp and the signal generator.
The output from this amp will be higher because of it's 24 volt supply instead of the 12v that the signal generator is using above.
But this is not a problem, the 8038 signal generator is good for up to 30 volts each side of the supply.
So we can plug it into the same supply and send the signal to the TDA7294 all on the same board if we want.
This seems quite convenient for MFD builders.

This amplifier is intended to drive typical speakers from 4-8 ohms. Since the ground usually has much higher impedance, We cannot expect to put the full 100 watts of power into the ground.
But since it can handle up to 100 watts, it seems a good candidate for a step-up transformer to increase the voltage at the probes to get more power into the ground.
Of course, power transistors could do this too. The main difference is this IC is able to maintain a very clean signal without distorting it at power levels, and it is on a single IC.
When we start sending more power out, we can expect the amplifier to heat up, so we need a heat sink that will carry the heat away.
The image below shows a typical heat sink used on an audio amplifier.
But this could be made smaller, especially if you include a fan to circulate air through the fins, similar to how computer fans work.

Because this IC matches up so well to the 8038 signal generator, I show some concepts of how you could hook it up below.
This is not a circuit I tested, but I think it may work if I didn't get any mistakes in the connections.

In the circuit you can see I changed the two capacitors that set the frequency for the 8038 to a bank of 6 capacitors with a rotary switch to select which frequency you want.
You can fill in any capacitor values for your favorite frequencies.
There is also an option to make adjustments to the frequency at pin 4 on the 8038, or you can leave it in the original design.
You can also see where the transformer goes.
You can choose the transformer type depending on the soil conditions.
I think you will have a wide range of soil impedance depending on ground mineralization and how wet the soil is.
For this reason, I doubt any one transformer would be suitable for all soil.
But at least you have some control at the power knob.
Another option would be an adjustable auto-transformer that you can change to suit the soil.
But don't forget the batteries.
When you put out more power, you need bigger batteries.

Keep in mind that Michael's Bulgarian MFD locator uses this same amplifier, but he was able to detect nothing ever, even though he could measure the signal in the ground up to 2 meters distance.
And that is exactly what I think you will detect with this MFD detector... Nothing.
If you think I am wrong and this circuit really can locate treasure, prove me wrong.


Best wishes, :) J_P

[Dedevil]

It turns out this TDA7294 amplifier is even more interesting than I thought.
Aside from being a very low distortion high power amplifier, it runs on a dual power supply that the signal generator IC can share with it.
This means you can use the two 12v batteries like Michael has in his Bulgarian LRL to run both the TDA7294 power amp and the signal generator.
The output from this amp will be higher because of it's 24 volt supply instead of the 12v that the signal generator is using above.
But this is not a problem, the 8038 signal generator is good for up to 30 volts each side of the supply.
So we can plug it into the same supply and send the signal to the TDA7294 all on the same board if we want.
This seems quite convenient for MFD builders.

This amplifier is intended to drive typical speakers from 4-8 ohms. Since the ground usually has much higher impedance, We cannot expect to put the full 100 watts of power into the ground.
But since it can handle up to 100 watts, it seems a good candidate for a step-up transformer to increase the voltage at the probes to get more power into the ground.
Of course, power transistors could do this too. The main difference is this IC is able to maintain a very clean signal without distorting it at power levels, and it is on a single IC.
When we start sending more power out, we can expect the amplifier to heat up, so we need a heat sink that will carry the heat away.
The image below shows a typical heat sink used on an audio amplifier.
But this could be made smaller, especially if you include a fan to circulate air through the fins, similar to how computer fans work.

Because this IC matches up so well to the 8038 signal generator, I show some concepts of how you could hook it up below.
This is not a circuit I tested, but I think it may work if I didn't get any mistakes in the connections.

In the circuit you can see I changed the two capacitors that set the frequency for the 8038 to a bank of 6 capacitors with a rotary switch to select which frequency you want.
You can fill in any capacitor values for your favorite frequencies.
There is also an option to make adjustments to the frequency at pin 4 on the 8038, or you can leave it in the original design.
You can also see where the transformer goes.
You can choose the transformer type depending on the soil conditions.
I think you will have a wide range of soil impedance depending on ground mineralization and how wet the soil is.
For this reason, I doubt any one transformer would be suitable for all soil.
But at least you have some control at the power knob.
Another option would be an adjustable auto-transformer that you can change to suit the soil.
But don't forget the batteries.
When you put out more power, you need bigger batteries.

Keep in mind that Michael's Bulgarian MFD locator uses this same amplifier, but he was able to detect nothing ever, even though he could measure the signal in the ground up to 2 meters distance.
And that is exactly what I think you will detect with this MFD detector... Nothing.
If you think I am wrong and this circuit really can locate treasure, prove me wrong.


Best wishes, :) J_P


Get off that space flight from NASNA and back to reallity?

We are searching for an LRL THAT WORKS

[J_Player]

Get off that space flight from NASNA and back to reallity?

We are searching for an LRL THAT WORKSDo you have an MFD schematic that works?
Post the schematic here.


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Do you have an MFD schematic that works?
Post the schematic here.


Best wishes, :)
J_P


Most MFD works if the user knows how to keep the rods. Do not you wait from first time to keep the Lrods and to go directly to the buried objects :nono::nono:. As all the things.. it need hard work

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Most MFD works if the user knows how to keep the rods. Do not you wait from first time to keep the Lrods and to go directly to the buried objects :nono::nono:. As all the things.. it need hard work

Regards:)Hi Geo,
The technique you specify for using MFD was already posted above here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141681&postcount=10

This thread is where ma330 asked for an mfd project and a schematic that works.
Do you have a project and schematic to post here that can help him? I need information about a mfd project.And I need a schematic for mfd.Can anyone help me?


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
The technique you specify for using MFD was already posted above here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141681&postcount=10

This thread is where ma330 asked for an mfd project and a schematic that works.
Do you have a project and schematic to post here that can help him?


Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_P.
It is not so simple!!!. Don't think that if you will keep 2 Lrods at your hand then you will find any buried. It needs many experiment.
As for schematic... i attached one LRL with generator and it works.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
It is not so simple!!!. Don't think that if you will keep 2 Lrods at your hand then you will find any buried. It needs many experiment.
As for schematic... i attached one LRL with generator and it works.

Regards:)Hi Geo,
This is excellent information.
Can you post a list of the experiments that are necessary to find buried treasure for ma330?
When he finishes performing the experiments that you show, then he will find treasure the same as you find treasure.

Also, I do not see your attachment for LRL with generator schematic that works.
Can you post that too?


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Dedevil]

Excellent ciruit diagram of your LRL. Is this your own design? Which program did you use to draw the diagram?

rgds

[ma330]

hi jp
You can design for my post number 38 with IC xr2206 Instead of 8038?
with respect:)

[Dedevil]

Excellent ciruit diagram of your LRL. Is this your own design? Which program did you use to draw the diagram?

rgds

Just a question? In your schematic after the Ls888tx1 what is the purpose of the output of the R/C circuit.

rgds

[ma330]

Hi J_P.
It is not so simple!!!. Don't think that if you will keep 2 Lrods at your hand then you will find any buried. It needs many experiment.
As for schematic... i attached one LRL with generator and it works.

Regards:)
HI GEO
I can not see your files.
Please put your files in RAR format
TANK YOU:)

[Dedevil]

Hi Geo

I still do not understands from your schematic posted above as you say R/C if for feedback from pin2?
Is this voltage or magnetic type?

This is a very different type of LRL

rgds

[Geo]

Just a question? In your schematic after the Ls888tx1 what is the purpose of the output of the R/C circuit.

rgds

Hi.
I don't remember at who post you refered..

Regards

[Geo]

HI GEO
I can not see your files.
Please put your files in RAR format
TANK YOU:)

I mean this...

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18466

[michael]

It turns out this TDA7294 amplifier is even more interesting than I thought.
Aside from being a very low distortion high power amplifier, it runs on a dual power supply that the signal generator IC can share with it.
This means you can use the two 12v batteries like Michael has in his Bulgarian LRL to run both the TDA7294 power amp and the signal generator.
The output from this amp will be higher because of it's 24 volt supply instead of the 12v that the signal generator is using above.
But this is not a problem, the 8038 signal generator is good for up to 30 volts each side of the supply.
So we can plug it into the same supply and send the signal to the TDA7294 all on the same board if we want.
This seems quite convenient for MFD builders.

This amplifier is intended to drive typical speakers from 4-8 ohms. Since the ground usually has much higher impedance, We cannot expect to put the full 100 watts of power into the ground.
But since it can handle up to 100 watts, it seems a good candidate for a step-up transformer to increase the voltage at the probes to get more power into the ground.
Of course, power transistors could do this too. The main difference is this IC is able to maintain a very clean signal without distorting it at power levels, and it is on a single IC.
When we start sending more power out, we can expect the amplifier to heat up, so we need a heat sink that will carry the heat away.
The image below shows a typical heat sink used on an audio amplifier.
But this could be made smaller, especially if you include a fan to circulate air through the fins, similar to how computer fans work.

Because this IC matches up so well to the 8038 signal generator, I show some concepts of how you could hook it up below.
This is not a circuit I tested, but I think it may work if I didn't get any mistakes in the connections.

In the circuit you can see I changed the two capacitors that set the frequency for the 8038 to a bank of 6 capacitors with a rotary switch to select which frequency you want.
You can fill in any capacitor values for your favorite frequencies.
There is also an option to make adjustments to the frequency at pin 4 on the 8038, or you can leave it in the original design.
You can also see where the transformer goes.
You can choose the transformer type depending on the soil conditions.
I think you will have a wide range of soil impedance depending on ground mineralization and how wet the soil is.
For this reason, I doubt any one transformer would be suitable for all soil.
But at least you have some control at the power knob.
Another option would be an adjustable auto-transformer that you can change to suit the soil.
But don't forget the batteries.
When you put out more power, you need bigger batteries.

Keep in mind that Michael's Bulgarian MFD locator uses this same amplifier, but he was able to detect nothing ever, even though he could measure the signal in the ground up to 2 meters distance.
And that is exactly what I think you will detect with this MFD detector... Nothing.
If you think I am wrong and this circuit really can locate treasure, prove me wrong.


Best wishes, :) J_P

Hi J_P.
I should add that LRL200D at first could detect our hidden test targets more or less. at first the box consisting TDA729 became so much hot, but after that we did something maybe a big mistake:???: .... it's long story.
I'm sure have put the story somewhere in this forum, but couldn't find it with advanced search. :nerd: you can use keywords: " LRL2000D or STK435 or Notsi" for more than 6 years ago. can you find those posts? I guess are useful.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I should add that LRL200D at first could detect our hidden test targets more or less. at first the box consisting TDA729 became so much hot, but after that we did something maybe a big mistake:???: .... it's long story.
I'm sure have put the story somewhere in this forum, but couldn't find it with advanced search. :nerd: you can use keywords: " LRL2000D or STK435 or Notsi" for more than 6 years ago. can you find those posts? I guess are useful.Hi Michael,
I expect your box would become hot if the amplifier is putting out very much power.
This is why I posted warnings about heat sinks, and better to include a fan to carry the heat away.
The large heat sink you see in my image above is used on some audio amplifier applications to drive speakers, not for connecting to probes that you put into the ground.
One problem with using this amplifier for a ground probe generator is the possibility of accidentally shorting the rods together.
This can easily happen if the rods are dropped, and they fall to the ground where they are contacting each other.
There are other ways that could cause the probes to draw a large current from the amplifier too.
The TDA7294 has a built in thermal overload protection, but I would not rely on it to prevent damage to the circuits inside a Bulgarian LRL.
Your post describing what happened is here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43004&postcount=223

From what you said in that post, it seems there was a failure which caused the signal generator frequency to become unchangeable.
But is sounds as if you also had a malfunction with the amplifier.
This makes me wonder if the Bulgarian manufacturer was using Chinese counterfeit components that are not capable of performing to the standards of the genuine ICs from the ST microelectronics factory.
I am guessing the amplifier IC failed, and caused the signal generator circuit to fail at the same time.
In any case, it does not cost much to make your own version of a signal generator and power amplifier for a lot less cost than the Bulgarian product.

One question:
In your years of experimenting, did you find that extra power improved your ability to detect from long distance?
Or did you find that your best detection was found when using a simple one or two 9v battery version MFD generator?


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[michael]

Hi J_P.
Thank you.
I had more and more posts about MFDs; LRL 2000D, homemade transmitter,..... may you put threads link?
what should I add Is that box would become very hot which we had to cool box with wet piece of cloth to decrease temperature.
Afterwards we thought better to open the box, we just simply opened box and closed again, without any handling, after turning on it never warmed up and couldn’t hit test targets it remaind cold even after hours working. I took it to my e.e friend, checked out frequency for all options, got all have single 249 KHZ . my friend checked all parts and found a simple interconnection or something like this. he told op-amp is working well, has no problem, but had no justifying explanation about temperature,....
My friend had a radio generator. He asked me to prepare one STK435 for op-amp to access more and better output, so I did it.
BTW; TDA had a a big heat-sink

Q: In your years of experimenting, did you find that extra power improved your ability to detect from long distance?
A: Honestly it’s hard to state about this, as all places we searched by MFDs had no treasure cos after getting MDL we searched all places.
The hot locations we found by MDL had never been searched before that by MFDs; already we had left them in closet and never used.

Q:did you find that your best detection was found when using a simple one or two 9v battery version MFD generator?
A:Before LRL200D I personally never had MFD, but I had friend who was individual, unbelievably capable to find hidden gold tests everywhere. He had a homemade MFD with 3 probes which put in ground It was working with a single 9V. He could pass all type of my hard blind tests. I personally never could track anything with his MFD.
He would believe that this matter depends on blood types and believed O types are the best in this matter. Himself was O type, me not. Maybe he was right.
god have mercy upon his soul. we missed him.:frown:

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
It is not so simple!!!. Don't think that if you will keep 2 Lrods at your hand then you will find any buried. It needs many experiment.
As for schematic... i attached one LRL with generator and it works.

Regards:)



Originally posted by J_Player
Hi Geo,
This is excellent information.
Can you post a list of the experiments that are necessary to find buried treasure for ma330?
When he finishes performing the experiments that you show, then he will find treasure the same as you find treasure.

Also, I do not see your attachment for LRL with generator schematic that works.
Can you post that too?


Best wishes, :)
J_PHi Geo,
You did not answer the question for experiments that are necessary.
You have posted that you know what are the experiments that are necessary to detect treasure when using MFD.
No other MFD user has put these experiments in the forum.
The MFD techniques that Carl-NC posted, and techniques that MFD users posted show only the methods to use when holding the rods to find treasure.

Will you be listing these experiments that ma330 needs to perform in order to find treasure with an MFD generator?
Or are these experiments a secret?


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[J_Player]

hi jp
You can design for my post number 38 with IC xr2206 Instead of 8038?
with respect:)Hi ma330,
The XR2206 does not fit so well with the TDA7294 like the ICL8038 does.
The XR2206 has a maximum voltage of 26 volts, which is too close to the 24 volt supply.
There is a danger you will burn this IC if you are using freshly charged 12v batteries which can easily exceed the 26v absolute maximum that is allowed.

So we cannot simply plug in the XR2206 like we can for the ICL8038.
But there is a worse problem. The XR2206 is hard to find.
The only available supplies I have seen are Chinese counterfeit ICs which I do not use.

If you can find XR2206, then you will do well to make a circuit design that has a 12 or 18v supply for this IC.
I think it is easier to use the same ICL8038 that Carl-NC recommends.


Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
Thank you.
I had more and more posts about MFDs; LRL 2000D, homemade transmitter,..... may you put threads link?
what should I add Is that box would become very hot which we had to cool box with wet piece of cloth to decrease temperature.
Afterwards we thought better to open the box, we just simply opened box and closed again, without any handling, after turning on it never warmed up and couldn’t hit test targets it remaind cold even after hours working. I took it to my e.e friend, checked out frequency for all options, got all have single 249 KHZ . my friend checked all parts and found a simple interconnection or something like this. he told op-amp is working well, has no problem, but had no justifying explanation about temperature,....
My friend had a radio generator. He asked me to prepare one STK435 for op-amp to access more and better output, so I did it.
BTW; TDA had a a big heat-sink

Q: In your years of experimenting, did you find that extra power improved your ability to detect from long distance?
A: Honestly it’s hard to state about this, as all places we searched by MFDs had no treasure cos after getting MDL we searched all places.
The hot locations we found by MDL had never been searched before that by MFDs; already we had left them in closet and never used.

Q:did you find that your best detection was found when using a simple one or two 9v battery version MFD generator?
A:Before LRL200D I personally never had MFD, but I had friend who was individual, unbelievably capable to find hidden gold tests everywhere. He had a homemade MFD with 3 probes which put in ground It was working with a single 9V. He could pass all type of my hard blind tests. I personally never could track anything with his MFD.
He would believe that this matter depends on blood types and believed O types are the best in this matter. Himself was O type, me not. Maybe he was right.
god have mercy upon his soul. we missed him.:frown:Hi michael,
Another post you made is here: http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43003&postcount=222

But I do not see your other posts for a transmitter and for STK435.
It is interesting, the TDA7294 in your Notsi locator had a heat sink, but this heat sink was enclosed inside the box which did not allow the heat to escape.
When this amplifier is used for stereos, we usually see holes put in the case so air can circulate to allow the heat to escape into the air.
I have seen other designs where the heat sink is attached to the outside of the stereo box so fresh air could circulate at the metal fins to remove the heat.
If you stopped seeing any heat, then it means the IC stopped producing power that causes heat.
If your EE friend says the TDA7294 is not damaged, then it is possible that heat destroyed the microprocessor where the signals are generated, and where the control for the TDA7294 comes from.

If you are lucky, maybe you can get a replacement for the processor that is already programmed to work with the 2000D.

The STK435 is another amplifier that was designed to run stereo speakers.
This is a dual amplifier, with a 7 watt right channel and a 7 watt left channel.
Since you only need a single channel, you can use only half of this IC.
Or you could connect it to make two separate outputs that could drive 4 ground probes.

7 watts is usually enough power to run most stereo speakers that people use in their home or in their car.
It is also more power than most MFD generators need.
This IC will not develop nearly as much heat as the TDA7294 amplifier at 100 watts.
Since the consensus among MFD users is high power is not important, it does not surprise me that this amplifier was adequate for your experiments.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
You did not answer the question for experiments that are necessary.
You have posted that you know what are the experiments that are necessary to detect treasure when using MFD.
No other MFD user has put these experiments in the forum.
The MFD techniques that Carl-NC posted, and techniques that MFD users posted show only the methods to use when holding the rods to find treasure.

Will you be listing these experiments that ma330 needs to perform in order to find treasure with an MFD generator?
Or are these experiments a secret?


Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_P.
There is not any secret, very simple you(and everyone) must learn how to use the Lrods. Lrods needs calm and much stability when you walk. Also you must keep them very light and very horizontal. Wind is not a friend of rods. Every man must spend some hours to experiment with them so to start to have success.

Regards:)

... i forgot to say that depended of the generator power you must wait between 5 and 30 minutes when you connect the probes to earth until to take the Lrods.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
There is not any secret, very simple you(and everyone) must learn how to use the Lrods. Lrods needs calm and much stability when you walk. Also you must keep them very light and very horizontal. Wind is not a friend of rods. Every man must spend some hours to experiment with them so to start to have success.

Regards:)

... i forgot to say that depended of the generator power you must wait between 5 and 30 minutes when you connect the probes to earth until to take the Lrods.Hi Geo,
This is excellent news.
We now have some improvements that we can add to the Carl-NC procedure to use MFD.
I think it is finally time to make the updated graphic and procedure that includes your modifications to successfully find treasure when using MFD.

Before I post the updated graphic, maybe you can say what you think is the best amount of power to have coming from the signal generator that you see posted above using the ICL8038.
For me, I think the TDA7294 is not needed, and does not give better results than the power from only the ICL8038.
But maybe you think a small amplifier can help like the STK735 or similar?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
The power of the generator is important but it is not for the time. You must make a MFD and to try it at different terrains. What you ask for is a flow of current!!!!!. Current more than 10ma is OK, but believe me is not easy. For some reasons the Ohm's law don't work good here:lol:

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
The power of the generator is important but it is not for the time. You must make a MFD and to try it at different terrains. What you ask for is a flow of current!!!!!. Current more than 10ma is OK, but believe me is not easy. For some reasons the Ohm's law don't work good here:lol:

Regards:)Hi Geo,
Of course ohms law will not work good here.
You are sending power to ground probes that have telluric currents moving in the ground.
We expect we could see some voltage offset between the probes even if there is no generator connected to them.
Of course this external voltage source from the ground can interfere with any ohm's law calculations you make if you are only considering the current that flows from your MFD power source.

But the solution is simple.
If you want to inject a measured amount of current into the ground, then you don't need to make an ohm's law calculation.
You can simply build a current-controlled amplifier.
You can put a control that adjusts how much current to send out, then the amplifier will make whatever gain is necessary to reach the current that you set.
We know the resistance of the ground can change a lot depending on the mineralization and the moisture content.
We but with a current-controlled amplifier, we will not need to make any adjustments for soil.
It will all be done automatically by the amplifier.
We can simply set the control for how many milliamps we want to send out and we will get this exact amount no matter where we plug in the probes.
Of course, we will need to measure both positive and negative phase current to average the power, because the telluric currents can cause a zero cross offset.
The only thing that would stop us from getting the amount of current needed is if the ground resistance is too high.

The remaining question is what is the recommended amount of AC current to send into the ground?
And how much voltage is necessary to deliver this current to the ground?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[ma330]

hi
What helps to connect the generator to lroad to find the target ?with mfd?:)

[J_Player]

hi
What helps to connect the generator to lroad to find the target ?with mfd?:)The best way I know to connect the generator to L-rod is to connect with a wire.
You will need one wire for each L-rod.
The method below helps to connect the generator to the L-rod.
Or you can solder the wire directly to the copper handle.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[ma330]

The best way I know to connect the generator to L-rod is to connect with a wire.
You will need one wire for each L-rod.
The method below helps to connect the generator to the L-rod.
Or you can solder the wire directly to the copper handle.

Best wishes, :)
J_P
tank you j-p
How to help connect the generator to find the target? Is it this? And use it simultaneously with the mfd?

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
Of course ohms law will not work good here.
You are sending power to ground probes that have telluric currents moving in the ground.
We expect we could see some voltage offset between the probes even if there is no generator connected to them.
Of course this external voltage source from the ground can interfere with any ohm's law calculations you make if you are only considering the current that flows from your MFD power source.

But the solution is simple.
If you want to inject a measured amount of current into the ground, then you don't need to make an ohm's law calculation.
You can simply build a current-controlled amplifier.
You can put a control that adjusts how much current to send out, then the amplifier will make whatever gain is necessary to reach the current that you set.
We know the resistance of the ground can change a lot depending on the mineralization and the moisture content.
We but with a current-controlled amplifier, we will not need to make any adjustments for soil.
It will all be done automatically by the amplifier.
We can simply set the control for how many milliamps we want to send out and we will get this exact amount no matter where we plug in the probes.
Of course, we will need to measure both positive and negative phase current to average the power, because the telluric currents can cause a zero cross offset.
The only thing that would stop us from getting the amount of current needed is if the ground resistance is too high.

The remaining question is what is the recommended amount of AC current to send into the ground?
And how much voltage is necessary to deliver this current to the ground?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_P.

I used earth resistance meter to check the ground resistance and to calculate the current but no good results:angry:.
Anyway i wrote at my previous post that we need current >=10ma. At my devices this was able only with a small power amplifier and a H.V. tranformer at the output. With voltage >80v i had the good results.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

tank you j-p
How to help connect the generator to find the target? Is it this? And use it simultaneously with the mfd?Hi ma330,
Most people who use MFD do not connect a signal generator to the rods.
They only connect from signal generator to 2 ground probes.

The rods usually have no electrical connection.
There are only a few MFD generators that use ground probes and also have an electrical connection to the rods.
One of these is the Dell Systems Omnitron that you can see here: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/vr800/index.dat

On the Omnitorn, the rods are connected to a more simple circuit than the circuit above.
The Omnitron generator for the rods uses a 555 timer IC with a control knob that adjusts the frequency.
This simple IC does not make a sine wave. It only produces a square wave, and at very low power.
This is a separate generator which is the same as the second generator IC that is connected to the ground probes.
Both can be used simultaneously.
Or only the ground probes can be used for times when you do not want to use the second generator for the rods.

I have never heard of any reports from anyone who says they found treasure when using the Dell Omnitron generator connected to the rods.
My belief is connecting a frequency generator to the rods will not help you to find treasure.
I think that none of the circuits above will help you to find treasure.
But other people say they find treasure, so I show the circuits that they say will work.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.

I used earth resistance meter to check the ground resistance and to calculate the current but no good results:angry:.
Anyway i wrote at my previous post that we need current >=10ma. At my devices this was able only with a small power amplifier and a H.V. tranformer at the output. With voltage >80v i had the good results.

Regards:)Hi Geo,

Geologists have measured the resistance of the ground many times with good accuracy.
They use very expensive amplifiers and calibrated meters to find the resistance of many kinds of soil.
Here is the interesting thing:
Geologists found that the ground can have a resistivity that ranges from 100 ohm-cm to 1,000,000,000 ohm-cm.
This means that if they put their ground probes 1 meter apart, they can measure from 0.159 ohms for wet, salty topsoil to 1.59 megohms if there is no moisture content in the soil.
For an amplifier that is to send 10 ma constant current to the ground, we see that it must be able to deliver a voltage that varies between 1.59 mv to 15,900 volts for different soil conditions.
This seems like a very expensive signal generator.

But, let's look at what the geologists use for their power supply... they usually do not send out more than 300-400 volts, and they have a large range of voltage they can adjust their ground resistivity supply for.
When they are set at 400v to measure the highest resistivity soil, they will only send out 2.5 uA.
They have an auto-ranging meter which can switch from milliamps to microamp scale without a problem and give them the correct resistivity readings with very good precision.
Of course, this kind of supply is only for making ground resistivity measurements.
A geologist has no reason to force 10ma through 100cm of 1.5 megohms ground.

But there is a second part of the puzzle:
Geologists also know that the ground can have electrical properties that cause it to act like a capacitor when they are using AC on their ground probes.
When they make their induced polarization surveys, they watch for the phase angle that is caused by the ground.
And they will often sweep through a large range of frequencies to determine the time constant of the ground "capacitor effect".
This is not actually capacitance as we understand from charged plates that are separated by a dialectric.
It is caused by buried particles, or by pores in rocks which can become polarized when they feel the charge from the power the geologist sends into the ground.
These absorb some of the power that is sent, which causes them to become polarized.
Then when they remove the power, the particles slowly lose their polar charge and relax back to a neutral equilibrium.
The polarizing and relaxing process happens over a time constant, depending on the size of the particles or pores in rock structures.
This helps geologists to identify where there may be an ore body or porous rock structures of various pore sizes.
In order to cause this polarization, they use power supplies usually 1000-3000v, sometimes over 10Kv, and usually powered by petrol engine generators that can be several KW.

But for our purposes, we don't care about polarizing pores in rocks, or ore bodies.
We can think of this effect as unpredictable capacitive reactance that can be present in some ground, but not in other ground.
You can see how this would make it difficult to measure how much power your sine wave frequency is putting out.
It cannot be done with ohms law.
We must now consider the phase angle and the power factor.
This effect will be different for every different location of ground.
It all depends on what is below the ground.

If it was a simple DC probe, it would be easy to figure the current, but with AC, I am thinking what is important is how much energy you transfer to the ground.
This would be watts of real power that is corrected for power factor, not simple rms current.

But this is only my guess.
From all the reports I read, most people who report success with MFD say they are using a 5v or a 9v signal generator.
Some are even using a simple 555 with no amplifier... only a capacitor to make an AC couple to the ground probes.
Should we believe their MFD generators are working?
Who knows?

Best Wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
I know how to measure the earth resistance (it was my job before some years:lol:).
I measure it with the attached meter.
Resistance near to my city was between 0.5 and 40 Ohm.
When i say that it is not so easy i mean that with 10V audio signal and with 1_Ohm earth resistance i had not any current flow.

Regards:)

[ma330]

How can I do for this IC output volume control?Please show in what way?
This IC is suitable for boosting the output frequency of 8038?

[Geo]

At one MFD i used the TDA2030 IC. At the output i connected a 12V/220V transformer.
You can download the datasheet from it...
:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I know how to measure the earth resistance (it was my job before some years:lol:).
I measure it with the attached meter.
Resistance near to my city was between 0.5 and 40 Ohm.
When i say that it is not so easy i mean that with 10V audio signal and with 1_Ohm earth resistance i had not any current flow.

Regards:)Hi Geo,
This seems very strange.
The resistance you measure will depend on where you place the ground probes, the depth of your ground probes, and on the distance they are separated.
Geologists have never had a problem to measure the ground resistance when they test using an audio frequency signal.
They know that when they put a voltage to the ground to measure resistance, the current that flows depends on electrolytes in the soil.
So they avoid electrolytic reactions by using AC so they will not have problems with getting an accurate measurement.
But they also put a higher voltage than 10v into the ground when they measure the resistivity, and they spread their ground probes a larger distance than is usually used by MFD experimenters.
They send enough voltage to overcome any telluric currents so they will be insignificant in their measurements.
Then they measure the voltage that is flowing through the ground between the ground probes to determine what the resistivity of the ground is.
They do not connect an inexpensive digital ohm meter to a pair of test probes to measure ground resistivity.
When they make AC measurements, their signal processor can cancel any telluric current offset between the probes if it rises to a significant level. Their resistivity test equipment will also cancel any error readings that come from power lines or stray ground currents up to 100db to filter them out.
See below for the equipment that the geologists in the USA use.

Maybe you have a problem with your amplifier circuit.
Or maybe your meter is not making accurate measurements for the current.
If the problem is not from the amplifier or the meter, or from the electrical properties I talked about above, then there is only one remaining explanation....

Maybe a Jinn lives near your city. http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17736&stc=1&d=1325442464
I have read the reports how Jinns will cause equipment malfunctions for treasure hunters.
I even read reports where PI metal detectors failed to work when Jinns were near.
Maybe this is the reason why your amplifier cannot send any current through a 1 ohm load. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/remember.gif


Best wishes, :)
J_P

See equipment that geologist uses to measure ground resistivity below

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
If the problem is not from the amplifier or the meter, or from the electrical properties I talked about above, then there is only one remaining explanation....

Maybe a Jinn lives near your city. http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17736&stc=1&d=1325442464
I have read the reports how Jinns will cause equipment malfunctions for treasure hunters.
I even read reports where PI metal detectors failed to work when Jinns were near.
Maybe this is the reason why your amplifier cannot send any current through a 1 ohm load. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/remember.gif


Best wishes, :)
J_P

See equipment that geologist uses to measure ground resistivity below

Hi J_P.

There is no reason to continue this discussion. You Have a tendency to mocks the others. But we did not see any construction from you. Only theory and theory.

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.

There is no reason to continue this discussion. You Have a tendency to mocks the others. But we did not see any construction from you. Only theory and theory.

RegardsHi Geo,
You have it wrong.
This is not a theory.
I have worked with several geologists in California.
I watched their crews using the exact test equipment that you see above and other models similar.
I can tell you I did not see them use a 10v multimeter to measure the earth resistivity.
They know they cannot get an accurate measurement unless they use more sophisticated instruments with the methods I explained.
This is not a theoretical idea for how to measure ground resistivity. It is what I saw during every resistivity survey.

None of the instructions I posted for MFD methods are theory either.
These are the exact instructions that were given by manufacturers and users of MFD equipment who say they are finding treasures.
You can also see that Carl-NC posted the same instructions that he got from real MFD users and manufacturers.

What you have been telling us is that ohm's law does not work for your equipment.
I explained a lot of ways above how you could have false readings, but you do not want to believe.
You can check with any geologist to see why they do not use a simple multimeter to measure the resistivity of the ground.
These are not theories.
These are actual field practice methods that geologists use, who have many years of experience working with soil that has different salt content, different kinds of electrolytes, and different moisture content.

The only thing that is maybe theory is to try to guess why your amplifier does not send current to the ground.
The only theory I can think is that there is a problem with the amplifier, or the ground has a higher resistivity than what your meter measured, and does not allow a measurable current to pass.
If there is not a problem with the equipment or the methods of measuring, then it must be caused by outside forces.
If you don't believe this can happen, send a PM to michael.
He did not believe it could happen either, until he saw how it happens.
He will be happy to tell you all about it.
I do not believe michael will give you any false information.


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[ma330]

At one MFD i used the TDA2030 IC. At the output i connected a 12V/220V transformer.
You can download the datasheet from it...
:)
hi geo
The transformer at the output frequency will cause instability.Strongly.Oscillating about 1 kHz to more
To solve this problem, what solution do you recommend?

[Fred]

Hi J_P.

There is no reason to continue this discussion. You Have a tendency to mocks the others. But we did not see any construction from you. Only theory and theory.

Regards

Hi Geo,
Irony can be healthy sometimes.

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
Irony can be healthy sometimes.

Let it... its another story
:):)

[Geo]

hi geo
The transformer at the output frequency will cause instability.Strongly.Oscillating about 1 kHz to more
To solve this problem, what solution do you recommend?

I can't solve your problem. My MFD has not same problems.
I will try to upload some photos from my MFD
:)

[ma330]

I can't solve your problem. My MFD has not same problems.
I will try to upload some photos from my MFD
:)
hi to all
What is your opinion about the use of a stereo amplifier?

[Fred]

Let it... its another story
:):)

Ok Geo :)

I am still trying to find a proof or genuine video of a reliably working LRL.

Good luck,
Fred

[J_Player]

Ok Geo :)

I am still trying to find a proof or genuine video of a reliably working LRL.

Good luck,
FredHi Fred,
There is no proof...
There are only stories...
From MFD users and from Carl-NC

Also, there are some tests that Carl-NC witnessed.


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[ma330]

hi to all
What is the most accurate frequency for gold?
Brass rod is in contact with the hand is better or insulation?

[WM6]

hi to all
What is the most accurate frequency for gold?
Brass rod is in contact with the hand is better or insulation?

Without bare contact there is not real dowsing possible and dowsing rod is out of its real function.

[ma330]

Without bare contact there is not real dowsing possible and dowsing rod is out of its real function.
tank you wm6
The brass rod is connected to an oscillator?
The best way to find the exact spot with brass rods how?
Can you show me a drawing?

[WM6]

The brass rod is connected to an oscillator?
The best way to find the exact spot with brass rods how?
Can you show me a drawing?



Hi ma330
If you wish to discuss your problem, then you need to show us your problem in form of drawing.
Otherwise we can discuss here dowsing principle only. Nobody can read your mind.

[ma330]

hi to all
What is best for those with metal and brass rods are in contact And does not impact on the frequency of 5 kHz?

[WM6]

It depend of your electronic circuit solution. No matter of frequency you use.

If your electronic implies your body sensory system (biofeedback) then YES, brass rod need to be in galvanic contact with your body.

If your electronic does not implies your body sensory system (biofeedback) then NO, brass rod should not to be in galvanic contact with your body.

[ma330]

I made ​​a positive output mfd with a wireless connection to the land.:)
My generator has a very high stability when connected to ground;)

[WM6]

I made ​​a positive output mfd with a wireless connection to the land.:)
My generator has a very high stability when connected to ground;)


Great. Congratulations.

[ma330]

How can i understand where the metal bars is specified?Or non-metal
What method do you recommend?

[WM6]

How can i understand where the metal bars is specified?Or non-metal
What method do you recommend?

You must have this in gene. This is genetic question, cause this is (despite using electronic) dowsing rod only.

[Geo]

A member ask from me to attach here the pcb of Carl's MFD because he can't read the geotech.
Its here ...

[ma330]

And a member asked me about the schematic:lol:
kalkale ,pcb is correct There is no problem.
for kalkale:)

[ma330]

hi wm6 and j-p and geo and other freinds
I worked with my mfd.Bars indicate one point, according to j-p.
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141681&postcount=10
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141684&postcount=13
I dug into the specified location and took out a stone at a depth of 120 cm.
my lrl detect Was evident in the stone.:angry:
How do I make the distinction between rock and metal veins?
How do I filter would only reveal rocks and minerals and metals?

[WM6]

I dug into the specified location and took out a stone at a depth of 120 cm.
my lrl detect Was evident in the stone.:angry:



What sort of stone you dug, Ferro ore?

[ma330]

What sort of stone you dug, Ferro ore?
Ordinary stone:angry:

[WM6]

Ordinary stone:angry:

You detected this with earth probe and dowsing rods?

[ma330]

You detected this with earth probe and dowsing rods?
yes wm6:frown:
This was the rock line signals
I want to filter out the bars with an electronic circuit:frown:
please help me

[WM6]

yes wm6:frown:
This was the rock line signals
I want to filter out the bars with an electronic circuit:frown:
please help me

If you use resistivity meter with earth probe, then with most stone you get high resistivity and with metallic deposit low resistivity. Converting to frequency stone respond to low and metallic deposit to high frequency.

So, as first, your earth probe have to be connected to earth resistivity responsive signal generator and as second you need to follow those frequency changes in comparison to earth resistivity standard which you get by 3th earth probe.

How this frequency changes can be received by dowsing rod sensor is out of my knowledge. I think you will lost your youth before you realised, that you need to be born dowser to be successful this dowsing way.

[ma330]

If you use resistivity meter with earth probe, then with most stone you get high resistivity and with metallic deposit low resistivity. Converting to frequency stone respond to low and metallic deposit to high frequency.

So, as first, your earth probe have to be connected to earth resistivity responsive signal generator and as second you need to follow those frequency changes in comparison to earth resistivity standard which you get by 3th earth probe.

How this frequency changes can be received by dowsing rod sensor is out of my knowledge. I think you will lost your youth before you realised, that you need to be born dowser to be successful this dowsing way.

tank you wm6

[oroboy]

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?231002-Through-Ground-Radio-(Below-500-KHz)&

[WM6]

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?231002-Through-Ground-Radio-(Below-500-KHz)& (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?231002-Through-Ground-Radio-%28Below-500-KHz%29&)

Yes, this ground conductivity (apparent of ground resistivity) VLF method has some potential. Worth for further research. But not in connection with dowsing rods.

[ma330]

for kakale

[ma330]

hi to all
What is the best in class amplifier to boost the frequency to penetrate to the ground(for mfd)?
A?B?...?
please answer
TANK YOU

[WM6]

Trick is not in force, but in correct measurement.

You can use one 5-10W audio amplifier chip.

But if you still trying with L-rod combination, you probably need 5-10kV pp to sense something.

[Dell Winders]

This is the most often used kind of MFD which some people say they have success with: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/projects/mfd1/index.dat
You can find instructions also for making the rods here: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/projects/lrl1/index.dat
This is the same kind that Dell Winders sells as Omnitron, and many others make copies.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17842&stc=1&d=1327239545

When you finish the circuit you can connect the signal out (+) and (-) to the two brass rods that you push into the ground.
Turn R5 to make adjustment of how much voltage you send to the brass rods.
Turn S2 to switch to different frequency.
S1 is to turn off power.


Best wishes, :)
J_P

J PLAYER, you are so full of BS, you couldn't tell the truth if your life depended on it.

Shame on you for posting false information to unsuspecting viewers. Dell :frown:

[goldfinder]

J PLAYER, you are so full of BS, you couldn't tell the truth if your life depended on it.

Shame on you for posting false information to unsuspecting viewers. Dell :frown:

I'VE SEEN Dell Winders machines and JP is right on the money. Only difference is price and the signal generators which on Dell's machine is a worked over off-the-shelf signal generator that will run off a battery and the JP device that generates the signal with a simple chip. Anyone with 2 brain cells operating can build the JP shown device including the rotator rods for $30 or less. They both do the same thing - NOTHING WORTHWHILE!
Goldfinder

[Carl-NC]

J PLAYER, you are so full of BS, you couldn't tell the truth if your life depended on it.

Shame on you for posting false information to unsuspecting viewers. Dell :frown:

I've seen several of Dell's machines, and while they don't have "the same" circuit as the 8038, they definitely have "the same kind" of circuit. So JP is right.

The shame is adding useless electronics to a pair of dowsing rods and passing it off as anything more than... useless.

[oroboy]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCzyMQQAfCM

[J_Player]

hi wm6 and j-p and geo and other freinds
I worked with my mfd.Bars indicate one point, according to j-p.
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141681&postcount=10
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141684&postcount=13
I dug into the specified location and took out a stone at a depth of 120 cm.
my lrl detect Was evident in the stone.:angry:
How do I make the distinction between rock and metal veins?
How do I filter would only reveal rocks and minerals and metals?
Hi ma330,
I can think of one reason why you have problems with your MFD dowsing.
If you go to the page that shows the instructions for building and using the MFD, then you can look at the bottom of the page to see the answer:

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/projects/mfd1/index.dat
"Once you have the target pinpointed you may have to face another problem: depth. The MFD can detect targets as deep as 100-200 feet, so locating the target is only half the battle. If a metal detector does not verify the existence of a metal target at the identified location then you should bring in excavation equipment. If no obvious target is found when you reach 200 feet, then the target was most likely subatomic gold particles - you cannot see it and most chemical analyses will not detect it either, but the MFD will".

You can see that you have correctly found the treasure.
But there are two problems which you must now solve:
1. The treasure is not the rock you dug, because a rock is not a metal treasure.
We can see you did not dig deep enough.
You will need to dig much deeper to find the real treasure which is buried beneath the rock.
Maybe you will need to dig 200 feet deep before you find the treasure.
So you must go to rent a tractor such as an excavator to dig a very deep hole.
If you are lucky, you might find the treasure in the first two or three days of digging.

2. If you don't find the treasure after a week of digging with a tractor, then maybe the treasure is subatomic gold particles.
If this is what you detected, then you will not find it because these particles of gold are too small to see.
But you can be happy to know that your MFD worked to find it.
This means you did a good job of building your MFD because you were successful in locating the subatomic gold particles.

I hope this solves the mystery of MFD and convinces you that MFD really works.
If you begin to think that MFD does not work, then you are beginning to think the same as most treasure hunters who prefer to leave the MFD at home and use a metal detector.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ma330]

i have a problem
When I put the measuring frequency.Frequency is 5 kHz.When the probe is connected to the ground I change the frequency.Frequency of 5 kHz is transmitted when the connection to the land or a frequency oscillator is also changed?
I set the frequency of re-connecting the probe to the ground?
Or changes due to land Resistance and a normal thing and it should be noted?The frequency is 5 kHz and transferred to the frequency that the frequency counter?:|

[WM6]

If you think that frequency have to be 5kHz, then it have to be 5kHz, not 4.86 or 5.25.

Mean you need stable frequency generator, without changing frequency after connection to earth.

Probably digitalised version of signal generation.

[ma330]

tank you wm6
Whether a probe containing positive frequencies can also play the same frequency in the ground?
Similar picture

[reza vir]

I need information about a mfd project.And I need a schematic for mfd.Can anyone help me?


The circuit further searches metals :)
The only problem is, there is no frequency variable capacitors suffering?? Gold and Silver :|

[mahinda]

my friend.....

please give me answer this dowsing problem .what is connect circuit diagrams dowsing rod ?

[reza vir]

my friend.....

please give me answer this dowsing problem .what is connect circuit diagrams dowsing rod ?
Hello my friend in this type of device MFD.
The bars do not connect
Generators connected to the ground by the probe.

[pigeon]

for kakale


hi all

please anyone have the pcb in format pdf

thank you for help

p.

[UltraLRL]

hi to all
What is the best in class amplifier to boost the frequency to penetrate to the ground(for mfd)?
A?B?...?
please answer
TANK YOU

CLASS A, Because Class-A Output devices conduct through 360 degrees of input cycle.
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/amplifier19.gif?81223b

[UltraLRL]

http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Testgear/funcgen.gif

by Andy Collinson

read more at :
http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Testgear/funcgen.htm

[goldfinder]

The 8038 like the 555 is basically a resistor capacitor oscillator and they drift in frequency with temperature. If you want frequency stability use a PIC uC with a timer loop which is very stable.
GoldFinder

[reza vir]

The 8038 like the 555 is basically a resistor capacitor oscillator and they drift in frequency with temperature. If you want frequency stability use a PIC uC with a timer loop which is very stable.
GoldFinder

Hello my friend
Do you have a specific circuit?
Send to me Thanks & Regards

[UltraLRL]

http://www.electronics-lab.com/project/dds-function-generator/

http://www.scienceprog.com/avr-dds-signal-generator-v20/

Main AVR DDS V2.0 signal generator features:

Simple circuit with easily accessible and cheap components;
Single sided PCB;
In box power supply with external AC plug;
Dedicated high speed (HS) signal output up to 8MHz;
DDS signal with variable amplitude and offset;
DDS signals: sine, square, saw, rev saw, triangle, ECG and noise.
2×16 LCD menu;
Intuitive 5 button keypad.
Frequency adjusting steps: 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10000Hz;
Restoring last configuration after power up.

[UltraLRL]

source code
EagleCAD schematic and PCB
Proteus simulation files

[pigeon]

It turns out this TDA7294 amplifier is even more interesting than I thought.
Aside from being a very low distortion high power amplifier, it runs on a dual power supply that the signal generator IC can share with it.
This means you can use the two 12v batteries like Michael has in his Bulgarian LRL to run both the TDA7294 power amp and the signal generator.
The output from this amp will be higher because of it's 24 volt supply instead of the 12v that the signal generator is using above.
But this is not a problem, the 8038 signal generator is good for up to 30 volts each side of the supply.
So we can plug it into the same supply and send the signal to the TDA7294 all on the same board if we want.
This seems quite convenient for MFD builders.

This amplifier is intended to drive typical speakers from 4-8 ohms. Since the ground usually has much higher impedance, We cannot expect to put the full 100 watts of power into the ground.
But since it can handle up to 100 watts, it seems a good candidate for a step-up transformer to increase the voltage at the probes to get more power into the ground.
Of course, power transistors could do this too. The main difference is this IC is able to maintain a very clean signal without distorting it at power levels, and it is on a single IC.
When we start sending more power out, we can expect the amplifier to heat up, so we need a heat sink that will carry the heat away.
The image below shows a typical heat sink used on an audio amplifier.
But this could be made smaller, especially if you include a fan to circulate air through the fins, similar to how computer fans work.

Because this IC matches up so well to the 8038 signal generator, I show some concepts of how you could hook it up below.
This is not a circuit I tested, but I think it may work if I didn't get any mistakes in the connections.

In the circuit you can see I changed the two capacitors that set the frequency for the 8038 to a bank of 6 capacitors with a rotary switch to select which frequency you want.
You can fill in any capacitor values for your favorite frequencies.
There is also an option to make adjustments to the frequency at pin 4 on the 8038, or you can leave it in the original design.
You can also see where the transformer goes.
You can choose the transformer type depending on the soil conditions.
I think you will have a wide range of soil impedance depending on ground mineralization and how wet the soil is.
For this reason, I doubt any one transformer would be suitable for all soil.
But at least you have some control at the power knob.
Another option would be an adjustable auto-transformer that you can change to suit the soil.
But don't forget the batteries.
When you put out more power, you need bigger batteries.

Keep in mind that Michael's Bulgarian MFD locator uses this same amplifier, but he was able to detect nothing ever, even though he could measure the signal in the ground up to 2 meters distance.
And that is exactly what I think you will detect with this MFD detector... Nothing.
If you think I am wrong and this circuit really can locate treasure, prove me wrong.


Best wishes, :) J_P


hi friend

have you pcb for this

thank you