help me - help me [Archive] - LongRangeLocators Forums

J_Player

01-10-2012, 03:43 AM

no, but this project is a electrostatic field detector and not a pd that detectors metals :(

Originally posted by Fred
You have to understand: There is no such thing as a pd detector that actually detects metals at long range.
The closest real known device is a pinpointer.

Originally posted by kahyal
thanks for this unused informations:lol:
Hi kahyal,
I can see you are a believer that a locator that detects metals will work long range when you put it in a pistol.
Maybe this is true and maybe no.
I see many people make pistols that will detect metal, but they have problems for finding long range.

I know of a circuit schematic for a detector of metals that works by transmitting VLF radio signals very far away from the pistol, then uses a receiver coil to listen for some changes in the signal that is being received.
This locator is so sensitive that it must use a nulling adjustment as well as a sensitivity control for finding signals that can originate in very distant locations.
This circuit was designed by some top electronic engineers in the USA many years ago, but it was forgotten.
What most people do not understand is this locator does not use integrated circuits which filter out the tiny signals that modern designs cannot find.
But LRL experimenters know better.
They know how important these tiny signals are for locating treasure.
They know these signals are lost when they use modern components.
This is why so many LRL experimenters look for this circuit.
I have seen many different versions of this circuit with different transistors and components ... and they do not work for most people who build it.
Maybe this is because they do not use the correct methods for building their PD.
Or... maybe it is because they do not have the correct schematic version.
I hear rumors that the pistol has a difficult time to work when the parts are changed for modern parts.

But I have the original circuit design using the original transistors and all the original components.
Some years ago I read that one of the Geotech engineers has this original locator design made into the pistol project.
He did not build a copy using modern parts.
He has the original locator from 30 years ago which he modified into a PD without changing any components.
He never will tell how much treasure he found.
I am thinking he found many ancient hammered coins, but I do not think he will tell if he found some Celtic gold treasures.
I don't know for certain because he did not say what he recovered or not recovered.
But I remember he said he received some very strange signals that he never received from any of his metal detectors.
Then he became silent.
We never again heard about any more treasures he found...
I can only guess he spends his spare time treasure hunting using his original version PD locator.
Maybe he wants to keep the original design as a secret so only he can use it.
But I will tell all details...!! http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/good.gif

You can look below for a complete schematic.
Nothing is missing. It shows all the original parts that you will see if you open the locator and look on the circuit boards.
There are very few of these original locators left in the world.
People buy them as soon as they are listed for sale, so you will not be able to find one.
But you can build a copy from the original parts, because I show everything below.

Note: one transistor is no longer manufactured, so I put the substitute transistors that you can use to get the same results.
Also, you will need to find a mica capacitor. You can find these on ebay.
Good luck with your PD that detectors metals :)
J_P

WM6

01-10-2012, 08:27 AM

Great work J_P, keep posting such nice and scientific based projects. Congratulations.

mineoro boxes are only funny and false non-working copies of your design. Not to mention rangertell, okm bionic, hung drain hoses and other fraud crezations.

J_Player

01-10-2012, 09:18 AM

Great work J_P, keep posting such nice projects. Congratulations.

mineoro boxes are only funny and false non-working copies of your design. Not to mention rangertell, okm bionic, hung drain hoses and other fraud crezations.Hi WM6,
Thank you for your compliments, but this is not my design.
I only drew the circuit diagram of the parts that can be seen inside the original locator.
Some very good electronic engineers in the USA designed this circuit, which was said to be cutting edge design work... ahead of its time.
But I have heard rumors that some people who work at Mineoro have copied this design, and changed some of the parts before selling it.
Remember, this is very similar to circuits that people pay many thousands of euros for, but this design was working to locate metals for everyone who used it.
But these are so hard to find an original commercial version, that people will build their own copies so they can have one.
Besides being very sensitive, this design also uses completely unshielded VLF loops so none of the faint electric signal components will be lost.
We can be sure that if there is a treasure signal in the air, we will receive it... both magnetic and electric..!

But there is a problem....
I have an error in the circuit.
I am making corrections now and preparing more tips for building this classic original version of the locator.
I will post corrections as soon as they are finished.
If anyone spots any errors above, please let me know so I can include them in my corrections.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

WM6

01-10-2012, 10:10 AM

If anyone spots any errors above, please let me know so I can include them in my corrections.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

For more stable work I can suggest this:
(or even better variable trimmer capacitor of about 0-36pF)

aft_72005

01-10-2012, 10:12 AM

Hi kahyal,
I can see you are a believer that a locator that detects metals will work long range when you put it in a pistol.
Maybe this is true and maybe no.
I see many people make pistols that will detect metal, but they have problems for finding long range.

I know of a circuit schematic for a detector of metals that works by transmitting VLF radio signals very far away from the pistol, then uses a receiver coil to listen for some changes in the signal that is being received.
This locator is so sensitive that it must use a nulling adjustment as well as a sensitivity control for finding signals that can originate in very distant locations.
This circuit was designed by some top electronic engineers in the USA many years ago, but it was forgotten.
What most people do not understand is this locator does not use integrated circuits which filter out the tiny signals that modern designs cannot find.
But LRL experimenters know better.
They know how important these tiny signals are for locating treasure.
They know these signals are lost when they use modern components.
This is why so many LRL experimenters look for this circuit.
I have seen many different versions of this circuit with different transistors and components ... and they do not work for most people who build it.
Maybe this is because they do not use the correct methods for building their PD.
Or... maybe it is because they do not have the correct schematic version.
I hear rumors that the pistol has a difficult time to work when the parts are changed for modern parts.

But I have the original circuit design using the original transistors and all the original components.
Some years ago I read that one of the Geotech engineers has this original locator design made into the pistol project.
He did not build a copy using modern parts.
He has the original locator from 30 years ago which he modified into a PD without changing any components.
He never will tell how much treasure he found.
I am thinking he found many ancient hammered coins, but I do not think he will tell if he found some Celtic gold treasures.
I don't know for certain because he did not say what he recovered or not recovered.
But I remember he said he received some very strange signals that he never received from any of his metal detectors.
Then he became silent.
We never again heard about any more treasures he found...
I can only guess he spends his spare time treasure hunting using his original version PD locator.
Maybe he wants to keep the original design as a secret so only he can use it.
But I will tell all details...!! http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/good.gif

You can look below for a complete schematic.
Nothing is missing. It shows all the original parts that you will see if you open the locator and look on the circuit boards.
There are very few of these original locators left in the world.
People buy them as soon as they are listed for sale, so you will not be able to find one.
But you can build a copy from the original parts, because I show everything below.

Note: one transistor is no longer manufactured, so I put the substitute transistors that you can use to get the same results.
Also, you will need to find a mica capacitor. You can find these on ebay.
Good luck with your PD that detectors metals :)
J_P

Hi J_Player
Nice drawing :thumb:, circuit seem as Alonso PD !!!!.
Best regards .

J_Player

01-10-2012, 10:48 AM

For more stable work I can suggest this:
(or even better variable trimmer capacitor of about 0-36pF)Hi WM6,
You are correct. It would be more stable if we increase the value there.
But remember, we are not looking for stability.
We are looking for signals that other locators cannot find.
Since there is no Faraday shield on the coils, we can expect to get extra electrical field signals even on the magnetic wave receiver loop.
We would not want to lose these electric field signals in a filter cap.
I remember when the Geotech engineer re-arranged this same exact circuit into a pistol, he was amazed at the signals he was detecting that he was never able to find with his other locators.
He tried every way he could think of to understand exactly what these signals were.
But in the end he was satisfied to know that he was detecting mysterious signals that he could not detect with his other metal locating equipment.
Since the original parts in this locator use 10nF, we must keep the same in order to preserve the original design, and not take a chance to spoil the detection of tiny signals by making modifications.

I should point out there are a few changes in this circuit from the original, because some of the original parts are no longer made.
In cases where the original part cannot be found, I substituted a part that works identical to the original, without trying to make a change the operation.

Hi J_Player
Nice drawing :thumb:, circuit seem as Alonso PD !!!!.
Best regards .Hi Aft,
Yes, these are the same rumors I heard.
But it cannot be the same because it has a meter and two control knobs.
Of course, I know nothing about the Alonso PD except people say much of it was copied from other engineers designs.

But keep in mind, this is a reverse-engineered original factory locator showing the exact components that can be seen inside on the circuit board.
Nothing has been changed except a few parts that are no longer available were substituted with equivalent parts.
I copied these parts from photos of a Geotech EE's original factory locator circuits when they were available for me to see.
So what you see here is the genuine factory model of this locator --- not a modified circuit.

The corrected version below shows more details of the parts and it adds another filter capacitor that was missing.
There may be more corrections before we have the final version.
I think I found all the errors, but I don't know the meter value.
It may be a microammeter that has 1 milliamp for full scale movement, but I don't know.
We can experiment with different meters to find the correct meter.
I am told this meter is very important for finding the tiniest of signals that you cannot hear.

See below for corrections.
Good luck building the PD and happy treasure hunting, :) J_P

WM6

01-10-2012, 11:55 AM

Hi WM6,
You are correct. It would be more stable if we increase the value there.
But remember, we are not looking for stability.

Hi J_P

I am not suggesting to increase, but to decrease value of those C (from nF to pF).

OK, I can agree with your intention to follow original design. My word "stable" was someway inadequate, I mean stable sensitivity to usefull signal, not forced stability on TX signal (locked frequency).

No problem, I support original design you posted. What about PCB?

J_Player

01-10-2012, 12:58 PM

Hi J_P

I am not suggesting to increase, but to decrease value of those C (from nF to pF).

OK, I can agree with your intention to follow original design. My word "stable" was someway inadequate, I mean stable sensitivity to usefull signal, not forced stability on TX signal (locked frequency).

No problem, I support original design you posted. What about PCB?Hi WM6,
Yes, I see your idea.
But keep in mind, this capacitor does not carry the detected metal signal.
This capacitor transfers a small amount of the power from the TX coil to the RX coil for fine-tuning of the null.
We already have the 5K pot to adjust the strength of the null compensation which passes through this capacitor.
If we make the capacitor smaller, then we will lose our ability to make full adjustment of the null to arrive at a truly null RX coil.
A smaller value here will only allow a very small part of the nulling adjustment which we need for a good null.
The actual metal signal arrives as a VLF signal that the RX coil tunes from the air at the same locked frequency as the transmitter.
The small amount of TX power that passes through this capacitor is only used for trimming to a true null without needing to move the position of the RX coil.

But your concept is good for people who want to experiment with mods farther down in the signal path after the first 1K resistor.
Once the signal is properly nulled, then we could take a smaller signal which has all the tiny spikes, and use extra amplifier stages to examine the small signals closer.
This is for people who want to make mods.
For now I agree, we should present the original factory circuit which is capable of detecting some very strange signals without mods.
I think this will be the basic circuit that all modifications are derived from.

The PCB is copyright, so I cannot publish it.
But I can see where different components are located, so we can keep the components in a similar location as the original, and devise our own circuit boards.
I am thinking that any PCB we design can be very close to the original if we keep the components in the similar location.
We should be able to arrive at equal performance to the factory-new version of this metal detecting locator.
There are some components which are intentionally kept in certain locations to avoid interference from the VLF transmissions and reception.
I think that if you were to make a circuit layout that is much different, then maybe you will lose the great detection that is found in the original factory version.

We must have respect for the designer of this circuit, because he used some very innovative methods in his design.
I look at the meter circuit, and I see a transistor used for a meter protection to prevent it from burning up in case it finds a very strong signal that is too much for the meter movement.
And I see how he used diodes to form temperature compensation at the audio amplifier.
Very few treasure hobbyists will design these things into their circuits.
Yet these are the important things when we are treasure hunting and we find temperatures fluctuating from hot sun to freezing winter times.
And what circuit protection do hobbyists use when the "Phenomenon" becomes so strong that it will damage the electronics? None...
The engineer had these all these things in mind when he designed this circuit.

I will begin work on trying to devise circuit boards similar to the same layout for the components that the original factory model has.
This will take some time.
But it will be good to wait, because we will need to see if any more errors in the schematic can be found before we have a circuit board ready.

Assuming there are no errors in the schematic, it can be used for point-to-point wiring if some hobbyists want to begin for an early start.
I know kahyal will be anxious to begin construction, now that he has the schematic that he was asking for to show a pd that detectors metals.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Fred

01-10-2012, 04:15 PM

J_Player

01-10-2012, 05:55 PM

Great job JP ! ...

This is a circuit that will detect metals for sure ! (Btw, does it belongs to this forum ? :razz: )

Anyway i am sure this is a good schematic to build a working pistol detector.

At a later point one could upgrade it with an electrostatic detector connected anywhere on one of the coils and make it a perfect LRL project.

(I hope mesy something transfered the right amount to your account)

No one can claim anymore " i could not find a complete schematic on the forum" !

:thumb:Hi Fred,
Yes it belongs in this forum.
We have learned that a radio receiver is an LRL, a static electricity detector is an LRL, a frequency generator is an LRL, a bent wire is an LRL, a pendulum is an LRL, and a stick is an LRL.
Everything is an LRL.
Why not a well designed antique metal locating LRL?

But we must be careful not to attach an electrostatic detector to this LRL.
This will make it unsuitable.
Remember what kahyal said when I showed him an electrostatic detector project: "...but this project is a electrostatic field detector and not a pd that detectors metals :( "
We know kahyal will be happy with his schematic of a fully working pd that detectors metals, and will begin building it very soon.

But others who want a combination of electrostatic and VLF will be able to receive more of the signals that are found with these unshielded loops to complete the gold signal.
Of course these experimenters will probably want to pulse their electrostatic section with a frequency generator at ELF such as the frequency of gold or silver to add the final enhancement of signal processing.
But these mods are outside of the scope of this project.
This will be kept strictly as a perfect unmodified factory design that people can build so they can tune signals that no other commercial locator will detect.
Then experimenters can make modifications as they choose after they begin with an authentic PD that detectors metals.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Fred

01-10-2012, 06:33 PM

:lol::lol:

all Ok, i understand now.
Cool !!

:p

kahyal

01-10-2012, 07:08 PM

but..........

kahyal

01-10-2012, 07:38 PM

............ to But these mods are outside of the scope of this project.
This will be kept strictly as a perfect unmodified factory design that people can build so they can tune signals that no other commercial locator will detect.
Then experimenters can make modifications as they choose after they begin with an authentic PD that detectors metals..............................and other your writes.

but...:lol:
thanks
best regards.

kahyal

01-10-2012, 07:44 PM

but...........

kahyal

01-11-2012, 06:46 AM

capacity of L1 and L2 not mentions.
best regards.

WM6

01-11-2012, 08:30 AM

capacity of L1 and L2 not mentions.
best regards.

Which capacity? Parasitic inter-winding capacity or inter-coil (L1 and L2) capacity?

J_Player

01-11-2012, 09:55 AM

capacity of L1 and L2 not mentions.
best regards.Hi kahyal.
There is no L1 or L2 in this circuit.
The only coils I drew are called the TX coil and the RX coil.
See the new corrected circuit diagram below.

I have shown all the information that you need to make both of these coils.
See the schematic and the picture of the red TX coil and the blue RX coil.
You will see in the schematic there are coil connections marked A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H.
These are the tap connections where you connect the coil to the circuit.

Between each of these coil tap connections there are numbers which say 12T, 3T, 5T, 12T, 56T and 56T.
These are the number of turns of 3mm wire you make before connecting to the tap.

This means that for the RX coil you use 0.3mm wire and you begin winding the coil at connection F.
After you complete 56 turns, you bring the wire out from the coil 10cm distance and fold the wire to make a second tap called G.
Then you continue with more winding until you finish making 56 more turns on the same coil.
When you finsih making the second 56 turns of wire, then you take the end of the wire and mark it to be tap H.
The finished coil will be tightly packed with some tape to hold it so it will not become loose.
Then you connect the taps F, G, and H to the circuit as you see in the schematic.
See the diagram below that shows how the RX coil will look if you stretch it open to see the turns.

You can make the TX coil the same way, but you have 5 different taps from A to E.
You can look on the schematic to see how many turns are shown for each tap at the TX coil.
There is no need for knowing the capacitance or inductance of these coils.
You only need to make them as they are shown on the diagram.

Best Wishes, :)
J_P

sakis1

01-11-2012, 10:22 AM

I did this 5 months ago and have great fun>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaOZgQPdGZE&feature=plcp&context=C3840651UDOEgsToPDskI01tApoFgi48TujDNsFzFK ?)

WM6

01-11-2012, 12:35 PM

Hi J_P ,

what are PCB's dimensions? I saw only one (90mm) given on drawing.

kahyal

01-11-2012, 03:59 PM

what are PCB's dimensions? I saw only one (90mm) given on drawing.

hi j_p
regret.....projects that are without pcb they are only a idea:frown:
best regards

J_Player

01-11-2012, 04:34 PM

Hi J_P ,

what are PCB's dimensions? I saw only one (90mm) given on drawing.Hi WM6,
90mm is the size of the opening at the bottom of the omega coil, not the size of the PCB-1.
The PCBs can be any dimension you want to make them as long as they fit in the locations where you put them.

PCB-1 must be small enough to fit inside the omega area.
The original factory version has this PCB inside the coil enclosure so the leads will be short and close to the coils.
But for the PD adaptation, PCB-1 could also be put inside the box at the same location that we see for the diagram.
Then the leads will be about the same length, with no loss in performance.

Also, both PCBs may be combined as on a single board in the PD adaptation.
In this case, the VLF tuner section should be kept to the right side of the board, close to the coils and away from the audio amp.
See below for alternate 1 PCB design:

Best wishes, :) J_P

Doug

01-11-2012, 04:43 PM

I did this 5 months ago and have great fun>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaOZgQPdGZE&feature=plcp&context=C3840651UDOEgsToPDskI01tApoFgi48TujDNsFzFK ?)

I would like to have one of them! Looks like a lot of fun for sure!

J_Player

01-11-2012, 05:10 PM

what are PCB's dimensions? I saw only one (90mm) given on drawing.

hi j_p
regret.....projects that are without pcb they are only a idea:frown:
best regardsHi Kahyal,
You NEVER asked for a PCB.
You asked for a SCHEMATIC.
And you were given more than a schematic.
help me - help me

help me- help me ,i need a pistol detector project -schematic
please help me........
Your request has been completed...
You were not given just an idea, you were given all the information that is needed to build this to the exact specifications that were produced by the factory.
You were given a complete schematic with construction tips and with details needed to adapt to pistol design.
Anyone with a basic understanding of electronics can build this locator with the information shown using point-to-point wiring on a perf-board, or they can make their own PCBs from the schematic shown.
You have been given more than everything you asked for and everything you need, even extra tips.
Yet you are still complaining...!!
If you receive a design for the PCBs will you continue to complain because the finished PCB was not delivered to your door complete with all parts soldered in their place? :nono:
Maybe you also want the LAY files so you can send them to a Persian factory to make commercial production?

You can scroll up and see that I have explained it is good to wait before the PCB patterns are released so we will have time to see if errors in the schematic are found.
If you don't want to wait, then you can begin building the locator now by soldering this circuit diagram onto a perf-board as either a 1 board design or a 2 board design exactly as you see explained in the diagrams.
If you do not want to use perf-board, then you can make your PCBs, or copy a PCB that somebody else makes.
See below to learn what perf-board is:

Best wishes,
J_P

J_Player

01-11-2012, 05:21 PM

I would like to have one of them! Looks like a lot of fun for sure!Hi Doug,
I think it could be a lot of fun too.
But I am not convinced that it will detect metals from long range.
Yet I hear stories that people find long range treasures using metal detecting locators adapted into a pistol design.
I would like to see some real testing to see if this design can recover hidden treasures or not instead of stories.
But until that time, it could be fun to build and to play with.

Remember, this is not simply a hobbyist design.
It was designed by a electronic engineer who included many features that hobbyists generally ignore.
Thousands of these locators were sold commercially more than 40 years ago.
Of course, it is an antique circuit by today's standards.
IB locating with an omega shaped coil is not very common today because it was largely replaced by pulse induction and VLF double-D methods.
But this design is still highly sought after by LRL experimenters because of the amazing ability to detect tiny signals that no modern detector can detect.
When hobbyists cannot buy the few remaining original factory versions of this locator, they can still build their own copy exactly as the factory design specifications for less than $30 parts.
Now the process is easier, because the complete circuit diagram is shown here with nothing missing, along with details for adapting it to a pistol detector design.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

sakis1

01-12-2012, 05:50 AM

J_Player

01-12-2012, 06:40 AM

not a simple detector, is an NMR detector and yes it's fun because although I see not believe.and it's real test, I have no reason to do something FAKE!well is to believe in human because can do many incredibly fenomeno!

Best wishes for .....

zarkinos:)Hi sakis1,
The schematic you see above is not fake.
This circuit is exactly what you will find if you open and look inside the original factory produced locator.
Thousands of people bought this locator and used it to recover many metal things.
I have not read any reports which say that it works by the principle of NMR, and I do not believe NMR is the what gives it the ability to detect signals that other locators cannot detect.
I know for a fact that it works by the principle of transmitting VLF waves and has a receiver coil which monitors the signals in the air to find any anomalies.
I also know it uses IB methods which are so sensitive that it requires a separate nulling control in addition to the sensitivity control for the tuning.
I also see the designer took precautions to stabilize the circuit for temperature compensation to help keep the signal from drifting.
But I see no NMR sections anywhere in this schematic.

If you want to believe this is a fake schematic, then you may believe it is fake and you will have no reason to do anything.
But this is exactly the kind of schematic that kahyal asked for, and that many other LRL experimenters have been looking for.

Nobody has any reason to prove it works or not.
This is only for hobbyists who want to experiment with it or to use the original circuit to make modifications.
It is a factory produced metal locator that has a long history of locating many kinds of buried metals.
I have read reports of hundreds of treasures that people have recovered when using this locator from the factory without using any extra pin-pointers or other locators.
Many of these treasures and other metal items were photographed, and some were even posted online.
But most of the recoveries were made 30-40 years ago before the internet was working.
This was at a time when there were more treasures to find before treasure hunters removed many of them.
And I have verified this locator can detect strange signals from very long distance that other modern locators do not detect.
The only question I have is how far can it locate a gold or silver buried treasure.
I have not seen any verified tests to show this distance.

But I know very certainly this schematic is not fake, because there is at least one electronic engineer who has the original factory version that he configured into a PD.
He can prove the circuit is exactly as we can see inside his original factory locator.
But more importantly, this engineer can demonstrate that it will ALWAYS pass a double blind test to prove that it works.
It will always locate the treasure to find which of 10 paper plates it is hidden under when it is used as recommended by the factory instructions.
Not 7 times when making 10 trials, --- 10 times when making 10 trials.
And no pin pointer is needed.
This locator will always find the location within 10cm or closer to the exact point of recovery.

Also, you showed a very interesting video. Congratulations. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/clap.gif

Best wishes, :)
J_P

sakis1

01-12-2012, 07:04 AM

aft_72005

01-12-2012, 07:45 AM

Hi sakis1,
The schematic you see above is not fake.
This circuit is exactly what you will find if you open and look inside the original factory produced locator.
Thousands of people bought this locator and used it to recover many metal things.
I have not read any reports which say that it works by the principle of NMR, and I do not believe NMR is the what gives it the ability to detect signals that other locators cannot detect.
I know for a fact that it works by the principle of transmitting VLF waves and has a receiver coil which monitors the signals in the air to find any anomalies.
I also know it uses IB methods which are so sensitive that it requires a separate nulling control in addition to the sensitivity control for the tuning.
I also see the designer took precautions to stabilize the circuit for temperature compensation to help keep the signal from drifting.
But I see no NMR sections anywhere in this schematic.

If you want to believe this is a fake schematic, then you may believe it is fake and you will have no reason to do anything.
But this is exactly the kind of schematic that kahyal asked for, and that many other LRL experimenters have been looking for.

Nobody has any reason to prove it works or not.
This is only for hobbyists who want to experiment with it or to use the original circuit to make modifications.
It is a factory produced metal locator that has a long history of locating many kinds of buried metals.
I have read reports of hundreds of treasures that people have recovered when using this locator from the factory without using any extra pin-pointers or other locators.
Many of these treasures and other metal items were photographed, and some were even posted online.
But most of the recoveries were made 30-40 years ago before the internet was working.
This was at a time when there were more treasures to find before treasure hunters removed many of them.
And I have verified this locator can detect strange signals from very long distance that other modern locators do not detect.
The only question I have is how far can it locate a gold or silver buried treasure.
I have not seen any verified tests to show this distance.

But I know very certainly this schematic is not fake, because there is at least one electronic engineer who has the original factory version that he configured into a PD.
He can prove the circuit is exactly as we can see inside his original factory locator.
But more importantly, this engineer can demonstrate that it will ALWAYS pass a double blind test to prove that it works.
It will always locate the treasure to find which of 10 paper plates it is hidden under when it is used as recommended by the factory instructions.
Not 7 times when making 10 trials, --- 10 times when making 10 trials.
And no pin pointer is needed.
This locator will always find the location within 10cm or closer to the exact point of recovery.

Also, you showed a very interesting video. Congratulations. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/clap.gif

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_Player
I am interesting know , what was in practical test result for that engineer?
Is he or she member in geotech?
Best regards.

aft_72005

01-12-2012, 07:51 AM

Hi j_player,I did not say is false schematic! I have this schematic in this video and just did the rear of coil NMR fenomeno!And I know that works very well (SCHEMATIC) why I did this. have a good day>zarkinos

Hi sakis1
NMR????????????? Please explain more about your theory .
And , are you found long buried metals with your pd??

J_Player

01-12-2012, 08:18 AM

Hi J_Player
I am interesting know , what was in practical test result for that engineer?
Is he or she member in geotech?
Best regards. Hi Aft,
I read these reports some years ago in a forum that is no longer online.
So it is hard for me to remember all details.
From best I can remember, the engineer is also a Geotech member.
He posted photos of his adaptation of this original factory locator to a pistol configuration in the forum that is no longer online.
I saw his photos of the circuit boards with components.
I could read every resistor color code, and see all the capacitors on the board.
This is how I know the circuit is not fake. It is unmodified, exactly as the factory designed it.
He said it was good for detecting most metals whether it is buried a long time or not.
He could also detect small metal things like coins in the air.
But he did not need to wait for the proper atmospheric conditions.
He was detecting on any day even if it is raining.

I try to remember the engineer's screen name from the other forum, but I remember he worked with a lot of electronic circuits,
I think he even helped with the electronic design for some commercial metal detector.
I remember he said he could point this locator in many directions and hear signals arrive which his other detectors did not detect.
But he did not report if he ever followed to find the exact source of the signals.
In fact, shortly after he showed his PD, he stopped making reports about it.
This is why I don't know the true distance that this locator can work.
I also remember he said there is no Faraday shield of any kind used on the coils in this locator.
I think this is important, because a Faraday shield can block much of the electric field component of incoming signals.
It will be good to hear from others who have experience with this design kept as the original factory circuit to see what distance they find.

I will try to find some of the original operating instructions for this locator.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

J_Player

01-12-2012, 08:44 AM

Hi j_player,I did not say is false schematic! I have this schematic in this video and just did the rear of coil NMR fenomeno!And I know that works very well (SCHEMATIC) why I did this. have a good day>zarkinosHi sakis,

Maybe I do not understand your words.
Maybe you meant to say that you can confirm this circuit is not fake.
This is the kind of report that I am interested to read about.

It seems like your version is changed to include your NMR modification.
Can you tell us about this NMR part?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

WM6

01-12-2012, 08:45 AM

But he did not need to wait for the proper atmospheric conditions.
He was detecting on any day even if it is raining.

Did it suit well to all continents?

J_Player

01-12-2012, 09:08 AM

Did it suit well to all continents?Hi WM6,
He only reported from the European area.
But this metal locator was originally sold in the USA by the thousands.
So I know from all the treasure recovery reports that it is working in the USA.
And I remember a report from Belgium and from South America that it was working in those places too.

Actually, I have not had a reason to even think about this locator for a long time until now when kahyal says help me- help me , i need a pistol detector project -schematic
Then, I soon learned that he would accept only a a pd that detectors metals --- not an electrostatic detector.
This is the only full schematic of a PD which detectors metals that I could think of.
So I try to remember from old forum posts that are no longer online.

It is good that I saved the circuit diagram.
I have had to correct this schematic several times to make it accurate for the original design.
There are several similar circuits which are modifications of this original factory design.
But I believe I have arrived at the original design using the original parts, or a close substitute part that will perform the same.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

sakis1

01-12-2012, 09:12 AM

Hi sakis,

Maybe I do not understand your words.
Maybe you meant to say that you can confirm this circuit is not fake.
This is the kind of report that I am interested to read about.

It seems like your version is changed to include your NMR modification.
Can you tell us about this NMR part?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Exactly this

does not change anything, as much for the nmr is the functionality in MRI

look at google images for NMR:)

Sorry for the English language but I have forgotten somewhere!!!!!!!!!!

WM6

01-12-2012, 09:32 AM

It is good that I saved the circuit diagram.
I have had to correct this schematic several times to make it accurate for the original design.
There are several similar circuits which are modifications of this original factory design.
But I believe I have arrived at the original design using the original parts, or a close substitute part that will perform the same.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

You done great work, thank you J_P.

aft_72005

01-12-2012, 09:33 AM

I will try to find some of the original operating instructions for this locator.

J_Player , Thank you for good comments ,circuit was interest me .
I will continue study this thread and wait for study more .
Best regards. :)

ma330

01-12-2012, 07:17 PM

Schematic is very good and practical Excellent j-p.Congratulations:)
I pcb design.Everyone wants to pcb To send him an email:);)
Sincerely

usta

01-12-2012, 08:22 PM

Schematic is very good and practical Excellent j-p.Congratulations:)
I pcb design.Everyone wants to pcb To send him an email:);)
Sincerely
so why you don't want to upload here?:)
"" Jack or mesy64 or meysam!!, I read you PM, i sent a PM to you too, if you want, you can read it!:razz:""
regards

ma330

01-12-2012, 09:27 PM

so why you don't want to upload here?:)
"" Jack or mesy64 or meysam!!, I read you PM, i sent a PM to you too, if you want, you can read it!:razz:""
regards
I believe you have a problem that does not work from the Society of Friends:lol:
You can share this problem with the forum administrator or moderator of the forum to ask for a better IP block MESY64 OR JACK OR MEYSAM or wm6 or jeo and.....:lol::lol::lol:
because I do not want to kill those who do not bother to exchange useful information for people who have come down to personal problems;):razz:

WM6

01-12-2012, 11:30 PM

regret.....projects that are without pcb they are only a idea:frown:
best regards

Here you are:

Coil housing PCB (4.8"x3.6"):

WM6

01-12-2012, 11:32 PM

Main (pistol) housing PCB (4.8"x3.5"):

J_Player

01-13-2012, 02:02 AM

Main (pistol) housing PCB (4.8"x3.5"):Wow.. http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17736&stc=1&d=1325442464

Cool WM6 :)
Now the the Persian factory can begin commercial production.
But we will not need to pay thousands of euros for a Persian copy of this metal locator, because we have the complete design here that we can build for maybe 20-25 euros. :D

Excellent work.
Did you check for errors?
So far, I can see that VR1 (50K) and VR2 (100K) should not be put on the PCB.
This should be a full size 50K control pot that is mounted on the box where it is accessible for the treasure hunter to make adjustments in the field when needed.
If you added these as a board-set pot and a trimmer for the sensitivity, then they are a modification to the original design.
But maybe I have the wrong idea.
Can you tell why we see them on the board?

One note: Some of the old mica capacitors are maybe too large to fit on this board easily.
The only mica capacitors are one for the TX coil and one for the RX coil.
These two mica capacitors can be soldered directly to the coil wires if you want.
The reason for using mica is because they have very good temperature stability, and will not drift so much like other capacitors when the temperature changes.
If the capacitors at the coils drift too much, then you can lose the good performance for detecting tiny signals.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Fred

01-13-2012, 03:22 AM

WM6, with all respect, this is a very ugly design :)

J_Player

01-13-2012, 03:24 AM

Initial tuning instructions:

I have found only parts of the instruction manual.
Since it is copyrighted, I can not publish it here.
But I can paraphrase what it says.
The words I use are different, but the meaning is the same as what they say in the factory instructions.
After you read the factory instructions you will find my instructions below them.

Factory instructions for initial calibration:
The meter is much more sensitive than the sound circuit. So all calibration is done by watching the meter.

First set the sensitivity and the null adjustments.
Move the locator away from all metal things, then turn the null control to the center of its adjustment.
Turn on the power switch. You may or may not hear a sound from the speaker when you turn on the power.
If you do not hear a tone, then turn the sensitivity control down until the meter moves to the 6 position.
If you do hear a tone when you turn on the power, then adjust the sensitivity either up or down until the meter moves to the 6 postition.
Slowly turn the null control until you find a minimum meter reading. This is the best null adjustment.

Another way to find the best null adjustment is to turn the sensitivity control down the meter reaches the 6 position.
Then turn the null control until you see a minimum meter level.
When turning the null control only increases the meter level, then you have found the best null.
Turn the sensitivity so the meter reads half way between 0 and 2. Then shut off the power.

Check to see if the locator will operate to pinpoint correctly.
Put a USA dime on the ground where there is no metal near.
Then turn on the power and pass the search coil Slowly over the dime at a height of 2 inches (5cm) above the ground.
You should see the meter readings below in the diagram when the search coil is passed at different locations above the USA dime coin.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17805&stc=1&d=1326425017

My note about the meter:
At this time, we still do not know what kind of meter is used in this circuit.
This meter is connected in a manner that appears to be measuring a current that will reach a maximum of 1ma when the meter is moved all the way to the right for full-scale movement.
We will not know if this is correct or not until someone makes some tests and reports back to tell what is the correct value.
I am presuming the meter is a 1ma full scale meter, but not sure.

My other note -- if you do not have a USA dime:
USA Dime is 90% copper with some nickel alloy added for the top and bottom to give the silver color.
You can cut a copper disk to the same size as a USA dime to find similar results.
USA dime dimensions: 17.91 mm diameter 1.35 mm thickness 2.268 gm weight.

This is the end of the initial factory calibration instructions.
Now you can read my instructions for the home-built pistol version of this metal locator:

My instructions for PD adaptation of this locator:
The instructions below are my instructions which were not given by the factory.
These instructions are important because they are special instructions for when you are making this locator using all your own parts for a pistol design.
The original factory version of this locator was not a pistol design.
The original factory version was a rifle design, so they did not include pistol instructions.

Final checks before making PD calibration:
To begin, let us assume you have completed the construction of the PD version of this locator.
Before you put in the battery, you should make these checks:
First look at the circuit board or the breadboard closely to make sure you have good solder joints.
Also check to see there is no place where the solder is spread out where it is touching a different conductor that it should not touch.
Then clean all of the solder joints and the circuit board with alcohol and wipe it dry with a soft cloth to remove any flux residue.
Methylated spirits is the best solvent to use.
Look at the wires that connect the coils to the circuit.
These wires should not be long wires tangled through the box.
They should be kept short so they do not pick up electronic noise from the rest of the circuits.
Then adjust the sensitivity control to the minimum (0% sensitivity), and put the null control to the center of the adjustment range. (50% at half of the null).
Finally, put in the battery and turn on the power.
Be ready to turn it off if you smell smoke or you see any other electrical problem like the meter stuck to full reading.
If you have no short circuits and everything is connected as it should be, you may hear some sound from the speaker, or maybe not.
Speaker sound is ok, and no sound is ok too.

At this point you will need to adjust the position of the RX coil for a null on the search coil.
First, to explain about the null:
The RX coil is designed to detect anomalies in the VLF wave transmissions that it receives.
But it is located nearly touching the transmitter coil that is broadcasting strong VLF waves which will interfere with the detection that the RX coil is trying to find.
This is the reason why the RX coil is positioned to cross over the center of the transmitter coil.
At this position there is very little of the TX coil power interfering with the RX coil detection.
But we must adjust the position of the RX coil exactly to find the minimum amount of interference from the TX coil.
When we find the position for the minimum interference, we call this the null position for the RX coil.
In this circuit design, we also see there is a null adjustment knob which the designer included to make very fine null adjustments electronically, after we find the best null location to put the RX coil.
The idea for nulling is to first put the RX coil in the best null position that we can find while the electronic adjustment is set to the center of its adjustment range.
Then, you will have a perfect null location with no interference from the TX coil.
This means that the RX coil will only detect anomalies that it finds in the air, not interference from the transmitter.
You will still be able to make fine adjustments when there are physical conditions that cause the null to drift so it is no longer perfectly nulled.
The control knob can make these fine adjustments.
You may need to use the null control knob to make adjustments when you are detecting near mineralized soil, or if some metal part inside your box is moved, or other similar conditions.
So you want to find the best null position for the coil while the null control knob is in the center position.
Now, a method to do this:

How to make the null adjustment:
First move your PD locator away from all metal things. Make sure you do not have rings, watches or other jewelry on your hands.
Leave the null adjustment potentiometer at the center position, and turn the sensitivity until you find a meter reading at the middle of the meter scale (50% meter).
Then move the RX coil until you find the lowest meter reading.
You can move this coil after you loosen the screws at the slotted hole.
Then slide the coil up or down to find where the meter reaches the lowest reading.
If the meter reading reduces down to 0, then turn up the control knob for more sensitivity until you see a meter reading on the scale.
Then make more adjustments to the position of the RX coil until you find the lowest reading.
You should find a position for the RX coil where it shows the lowest meter reading, and the meter will read higher if you move the RX coil up or down.
When you find this position for the RX coil, then you have found your best null position.
It may be necessary to turn the null control knob a little to find this location.
You can turn the knob anywhere between the 40% null to 60% null if it will help to find the lowest meter reading.
When you cannot find a lower meter reading from moving the RX coil and from turning the null control knob between 40% nd 60%, this means you have found the best null position for the RX null.
You can tighten the RX coil in this position so it will not move from the null position that you found.

Note:
This lowest meter reading position should be found when the electronic null control is in the center position between 40% and 60%.
If your null control knob must be set less than 40% or more than 60% to find the lowest meter reading, then you will need to move the coil farther.
Maybe you will need to make the slots longer so the RX coil will move farther.

Final check to see if you are done with the null adjustment:
When you are finished with the null adjustment, you should have found a location for the RX coil that gives the lowest meter reading when the Null control knob is in the center.
Any movement of the RX coil will cause the meter reading to increase.
Also, any adjustment of the null control knob will cause the meter reading to increase.
Look to see the RX coil is not pushed to the end of the slotted hole -- it can be moved farther in either direction, but if you move it up or down, the meter reading will increase.
Look to see the null control knob is set near the center (between 40% and 60%). When you turn it to the right or left, the meter reading will increase.
If all of these checks are correct, then you are finished with the null adjustment.
When you complete this null adjustment, you are ready to make the pinpoint test.

Extra tips for a good null:
These tips should be used in the early construction stages of the project...
Keep all the metal parts of your PD separated from the coils as far as possible.
The meter and battery and controls should be at the back, away from the coils.
The only parts that should be close to the coils is the transmitter and receiver part of the circuits.
If you use a 2-board design, you can put PCB-1 inside the coil housing or inside the PD box very close to the coils.
You want to keep the wires that connect from the coils to this board as short as possible so they do not pick up or send out unwanted electronic noise.
If you are building with a single board design, then keep the parts of the circuit for the TX and RX coil at one end of the board, near the coils.
And keep the power circuits for the speaker and meter at the other end of the board away from the coils.

Final pinpointing check:
The final check for the PD after you have a good null is the pinpointing check.
You can do this the same as the factory check.
Use the diagram below to check that you have the correct meter readings when you pass the search coil over a USA dime at different parts of the coil.

I will continue to search for factory instructions to see if I can find more tips to post.
Thank you to WM6 for his help with the circuit boards.
Maybe others will help also to make this a good project.
When more time has passed to add more details and to make corrections to any errors, I will compile a complete project for hobbyists to build.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

mehdi

01-13-2012, 07:20 AM

it looke to be very good schematic!

mehdi

01-13-2012, 07:30 AM

Now the the Persian factory can begin commercial production.
But we will not need to pay thousands of euros for a Persian copy of this metal locator, because we have the complete design here that we can build for maybe 20-25 euros. :D
J_P

J-P
be careful, you don't have permit to contempt to Iran.:angry:
your work is great and i am sure you are great man too, and i am sure you don't want to contempt to Iran, so please edit your post as soon as possible !!

J_Player

01-13-2012, 08:17 AM

J-P
be careful, you don't have permit to contempt to Iran.:angry:
your work is great and i am sure you are great man too, and i am sure you don't want to contempt to Iran, so please edit your post as soon as possible !!Hi Medhi,
I have no contempt for Iran.
From what I can see, Iran is among the best of the Arab nations.
Maybe Iran is the center of culture for the Middle East.
The reason why I think a Persian factory will want to make production of this design is because a forum member named Mesy64/Mesyana/Jack Montana/Golden_Statue has sent me private messages to ask me to send schematics to him in exchange for money.
From what I can see, this person is pretending to be a female, and may have contacts in Dubai who want to help him to make big profits from LRL manufacturing.
My comments are not meant to show contempt for Iran.
My contempt is for people who make false representation of who they are and try to conceal their identity in order to make profits from the work that we do in this forum for the benefit of hobbyists.

We all know this forum is for hobbyists who want to experiment with LRL principles... not for factories to copy our work to make profits.
I have taken the precautions that I think are necessary to insure that anyone can build this PD project without paying large amounts of money to a factory who will make profits from the work that is done by hobbyists who contribute to this forum.

I can see that Iran is a very highly civilized country like other developed countries.
The only reason why you see the name of Persia in my post is because Persian is the language that Mesy64/Mesyana/Jack Montana/Golden_Statue uses on his desktop when he makes translation to his posts to beg for us to send him more circuits for LRLs.

I know that mesy64/mesyana/Jack/Golden_Statue uses Farsi as his native language because this is the language he translates from his desktop.
mesy64 could be from Iran, or from the UK, or from USA, or from Germany, or any other place.
The country where he is from does not matter, because he still is a fake who uses several screen names and pretends to be a woman as mesyana to get us to send him more LRL schematics.
I can see that mesy64 has contributed nothing to help this forum develop a working LRL, but he has tried to offer me money to send him LRL circuit diagrams.
This makes me think he wants to make a commercial production of the work we do for hobbyists here.

I see other engineers from Persia who have contributed very good work for the hobbyists in this forum.
So I know the problem is not a problem that is caused by Iran...
It is a problem that is caused by a fake forum member named mesy64/mesyana/Jack/Golden_Statue.

Let us not think that Iran or any other country is to be held in contempt.
Only people who are making false representations of their person like mesy64 should be held in contempt.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

WM6

01-13-2012, 09:07 AM

Wow.. http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17736&stc=1&d=1325442464

So far, I can see that VR1 (50K) and VR2 (100K) should not be put on the PCB.
This should be a full size 50K control pot that is mounted on the box where it is accessible for the treasure hunter to make adjustments in the field when needed.
If you added these as a board-set pot and a trimmer for the sensitivity, then they are a modification to the original design.
But maybe I have the wrong idea.
Can you tell why we see them on the board?

Hi J_P

this "on board" is only visual, there are enough solder point to solder wire leading to pots.

I do not intend to change something in original design (this is why I ask you for PCB dimensions). So fully agree that VR1 and VR2 are mounted on box panel not direct on PCB.

It was only more convenient, due PCB designer test limitation, if I put in schematic those pots on PCB, but in fact pots have to be mounted on box separately.

I checked design for errors - of course in design only, not through build one.

By the way: Persians do not belong Arabian nations, they are only "brothers in religion" (mostly Shiites).

mehdi

01-13-2012, 09:12 AM

Hi Medhi,
I have no contempt for Iran.
From what I can see, Iran is among the best of the Arab nations.
Maybe Iran is the center of culture for the Middle East.
The reason why I think a Persian factory will want to make production of this design is because a forum member named Mesy64/Mesyana/Jack Montana/Golden_Statue has sent me private messages to ask me to send schematics to him in exchange for money.
From what I can see, this person is pretending to be a female, and may have contacts in Dubai who want to help him to make big profits from LRL manufacturing.
My comments are not meant to show contempt for Iran.
My contempt is for people who make false representation of who they are and try to conceal their identity in order to make profits from the work that we do in this forum for the benefit of hobbyists.

We all know this forum is for hobbyists who want to experiment with LRL principles... not for factories to copy our work to make profits.
I have taken the precautions that I think are necessary to insure that anyone can build this PD project without paying large amounts of money to a factory who will make profits from the work that is done by hobbyists who contribute to this forum.

I can see that Iran is a very highly civilized country like other developed countries.
The only reason why you see the name of Persia in my post is because Persian is the language that Mesy64/Mesyana/Jack Montana/Golden_Statue uses on his desktop when he makes translation to his posts to beg for us to send him more circuits for LRLs.

I know that mesy64/mesyana/Jack/Golden_Statue uses Farsi as his native language because this is the language he translates from his desktop.
mesy64 could be from Iran, or from the UK, or from USA, or from Germany, or any other place.
The country where he is from does not matter, because he still is a fake who uses several screen names and pretends to be a woman as mesyana to get us to send him more LRL schematics.
I can see that mesy64 has contributed nothing to help this forum develop a working LRL, but he has tried to offer me money to send him LRL circuit diagrams.
This makes me think he wants to make a commercial production of the work we do for hobbyists here.

I see other engineers from Persia who have contributed very good work for the hobbyists in this forum.
So I know the problem is not a problem that is caused by Iran...
It is a problem that is caused by a fake forum member named mesy64/mesyana/Jack/Golden_Statue.

Let us not think that Iran or any other country is to be held in contempt.
Only people who are making false representations of their person like mesy64 should be held in contempt.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J-P
please forgive me, maybe i don't understand exactly mean of your sentence.:)
BTW, good job for pd schematic. I will continue study this thread too.
best wishes
mehdi

WM6

01-13-2012, 09:34 AM

WM6, with all respect, this is a very ugly design :)

Fred, probably you do not understand good LRL design rules. You need to take some design courses at dr. Hung.

ma330

01-13-2012, 09:48 AM

Fred[/B];141435]Originally Posted by Fred http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?p=141427#post141427)
WM6, with all respect, this is a very ugly design

Fred, probably you do not understand good LRL design rules. You need to take some design courses at dr. Hung.

Wm6 is designed very well, fred.Designed with scientific principles.To avoid disturbance frequency should be a plan that is different from other circuits with metal detector.
This time I plan to pcb1:

aft_72005

01-13-2012, 09:58 AM

Hi Medhi,
I have no contempt for Iran.
From what I can see, Iran is among the best of the Arab nations.
Maybe Iran is the center of culture for the Middle East.
The reason why I think a Persian factory will want to make production of this design is because a forum member named Mesy64/Mesyana/Jack Montana/Golden_Statue has sent me private messages to ask me to send schematics to him in exchange for money.
From what I can see, this person is pretending to be a female, and may have contacts in Dubai who want to help him to make big profits from LRL manufacturing.
My comments are not meant to show contempt for Iran.
My contempt is for people who make false representation of who they are and try to conceal their identity in order to make profits from the work that we do in this forum for the benefit of hobbyists.

We all know this forum is for hobbyists who want to experiment with LRL principles... not for factories to copy our work to make profits.
I have taken the precautions that I think are necessary to insure that anyone can build this PD project without paying large amounts of money to a factory who will make profits from the work that is done by hobbyists who contribute to this forum.

I can see that Iran is a very highly civilized country like other developed countries.
The only reason why you see the name of Persia in my post is because Persian is the language that Mesy64/Mesyana/Jack Montana/Golden_Statue uses on his desktop when he makes translation to his posts to beg for us to send him more circuits for LRLs.

I know that mesy64/mesyana/Jack/Golden_Statue uses Farsi as his native language because this is the language he translates from his desktop.
mesy64 could be from Iran, or from the UK, or from USA, or from Germany, or any other place.
The country where he is from does not matter, because he still is a fake who uses several screen names and pretends to be a woman as mesyana to get us to send him more LRL schematics.
I can see that mesy64 has contributed nothing to help this forum develop a working LRL, but he has tried to offer me money to send him LRL circuit diagrams.
This makes me think he wants to make a commercial production of the work we do for hobbyists here.

I see other engineers from Persia who have contributed very good work for the hobbyists in this forum.
So I know the problem is not a problem that is caused by Iran...
It is a problem that is caused by a fake forum member named mesy64/mesyana/Jack/Golden_Statue.

Let us not think that Iran or any other country is to be held in contempt.
Only people who are making false representations of their person like mesy64 should be held in contempt.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_Player
I saying only for you more know about Iran .
Although living many Arab in Iran and most of them around Persian golf
But most of all Iranians aren't Arab.
Iran had culture with 12000 years old .
There are some companies in Iran and reproduced some famous metal detectors
As example pulse star 2, lorense 5, â€¦. Under license from master company.
But there are other companies reproduced and copy metal detectors without
License from master company !!!!! for example TM 808 from ""whites "" company.
There are some company design and produce metal detectors , most of them
Use micro controllers in designs .
The person Mesy64 or other names need data , may be as you think for
Reproduced . may be â€¦â€¦ may beâ€¦. But one things strange for me !!!!!
Why he or she use some difference nicknames in forum ???.
Best regards. :)

WM6

01-13-2012, 10:05 AM

Excellent design ma330. Better than mine.

Can you post more clear picture with PCB part placement?

ma330

01-13-2012, 10:44 AM

Excellent design ma330. Better than mine.

Can you post more clear picture with PCB part placement?

yes wm6 .I'll put you and other freinds Both the Plan:)
Circuit design in the smallest possible size(4*7cm).Check the circuit for error.
If you find an error please inform the problem
I put the original file attachments.
enjoy
Good luck:);)

J_Player

01-13-2012, 10:47 AM

Hi J_Player
I saying only for you more know about Iran .
Although living many Arab in Iran and most of them around Persian golf
But most of all Iranians aren't Arab.
Iran had culture with 12000 years old .
There are some companies in Iran and reproduced some famous metal detectors
As example pulse star 2, lorense 5, â€¦. Under license from master company.
But there are other companies reproduced and copy metal detectors without
License from master company !!!!! for example TM 808 from ""whites "" company.
There are some company design and produce metal detectors , most of them
Use micro controllers in designs .
The person Mesy64 or other names need data , may be as you think for
Reproduced . may be â€¦â€¦ may beâ€¦. But one things strange for me !!!!!
Why he or she use some difference nicknames in forum ???.
Best regards. :)Hi aft_72005,
Yes, I know that Iran has a long and rich history.
This was the ancient Persia which was much larger than Iran today.
For mest64, I agree with you.
There is no reason why anyone should use fake names unless they have some secret mission.
For me, I want no part of any of the mesy64 or other fake names from mesyana.
I think it is good to ignore all attempts from mesy64 to beg for circuits.
This forum is for people who want to experiment with LRL principles, not for fake names to come and continue to ask for more circuits.

Thank you for your help with some good engineering in other threads.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

J_Player

01-13-2012, 11:12 AM

Hi J_P

this "on board" is only visual, there are enough solder point to solder wire leading to pots.

I do not intend to change something in original design (this is why I ask you for PCB dimensions). So fully agree that VR1 and VR2 are mounted on box panel not direct on PCB.

It was only more convenient, due PCB designer test limitation, if I put in schematic those pots on PCB, but in fact pots have to be mounted on box separately.

I checked design for errors - of course in design only, not through build one.

By the way: Persians do not belong Arabian nations, they are only "brothers in religion" (mostly Shiites).Hi WM6,
I understand now that the PCB that you posted was only for the limited information that you had.
But things are moving fast now.
We see another version that ma330 posted.
Let's look for errors to be certain that it is correct.

I have been working on a single PCB design that I want to be in a long and thin form to keep the audio amp and power circuits on one end of the board away from the coils.
But the other end that is close to the coils can have the RF section.
The idea is to make a pistol that is long and thin to reduce the bulk and keep the heavy metal parts away from the coils.
The battery, meter and control pots should be at the end away from the coils.
The resistors would be mounted vertical to keep the board space to a minimum.
Note - the hand-carved wooden handle will show pride in workmanship, and will make your PD a classic collector's item long after you have used it on many treasure hunting missions.

But after I see the PCBs that have been posted, I think you other members can do a better job than me.
So I leave it to you to make a single circuit board.

Thank you all for the help.
Best wishes, :)
J_P

ma330

01-13-2012, 11:50 AM

Hi WM6,
I understand now that the PCB that you posted was only for the limited information that you had.
But things are moving fast now.
We see another version that ma330 posted.
Let's look for errors to be certain that it is correct.

I have been working on a single PCB design that I want to be in a long and thin form to keep the audio amp and power circuits on one end of the board away from the coils.
But the other end that is close to the coils can have the RF section.
The idea is to make a pistol that is long and thin to reduce the bulk and keep the heavy metal parts away from the coils.
The battery, meter and control pots should be at the end away from the coils.
Note - the hand-carved wooden handle will show pride in workmanship, and will make your PD a classic collector's item long after you have used it on many treasure hunting missions.

But after I see the PCBs that have been posted, I think you other members can do a better job than me.
So I leave it to you to make a single circuit board.

Thank you all for the help.
Best wishes, :)
J_P

new Version for j-p:);)

WM6

01-13-2012, 12:38 PM

new Version for j-p:);)

Very well ma330, right thing. Congratulations.

Please post PCB in Black/White .JPG format (or .gif or other pic format) too, cause some of us have trouble with .lay format viewer.

J_Player

01-13-2012, 01:02 PM

new Version for j-p:);)Thank you ma330 http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/clap.gif

You guys are good.
You saved me a lot of time to make a good board.
It seems the project is almost complete.
What did we forget? Anything?
I could make up a parts list, and list some sources.
Maybe it is time to start building so we can test it and see what it does.

Congratulations to ma330 and WM6 for bringing us to the completion of this project.
I will wait awhile before I compile this project into a single file that can be downloaded.
It will be good to see if there are any more revisions or corrections to be made before we make it an official project.

Thank you for the help.
Let's see how it performs now.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

ma330

01-13-2012, 03:10 PM

Very well ma330, right thing. Congratulations.

Please post PCB in Black/White .JPG format (or .gif or other pic format) too, cause some of us have trouble with .lay format viewer.
for wm6
The size pcb is 140 * 45mm
Put in the files of high quality and reliable printing for you
enjoy
good luck:);)

Fred

01-13-2012, 03:36 PM

Fred, probably you do not understand good LRL design rules. You need to take some design courses at dr. Hung.

Thank you WM6, you are right, i should send him a pm .

Wm6 is designed very well, fred.Designed with scientific principles.To avoid disturbance frequency should be a plan that is different from other circuits with metal detector.
This time I plan to pcb1:

Maybe we have different conception of what is a scientific principle, but i found this design terrible. I usually donÂ´t criticize otherÂ´s work, but i was sure WM6 was smart enough to understand that it was not a negative critic, and his answer confirmed it .

Very well ma330, right thing. Congratulations.

Please post PCB in Black/White .JPG format (or .gif or other pic format) too, cause some of us have trouble with .lay format viewer.

I think that you know it but for windows there is a free editor to download on the sprint layout homepage.

WM6

01-13-2012, 04:02 PM

I think that you know it but for windows there is a free editor to download on the sprint layout homepage.

Thanks Fred. I know, but I am under Linux for a while and a bit lazy.

@ma330: Thanks for your kindness.

mehdi

01-13-2012, 04:15 PM

for wm6
The size pcb is 140 * 45mm
Put in the files of high quality and reliable printing for you
enjoy
good luck:);)

good job my friend, excellent;)

mehdi

01-13-2012, 04:15 PM

i checked it and i can say it has not any problem.

aft_72005

01-13-2012, 05:56 PM

Hi aft_72005,
Yes, I know that Iran has a long and rich history.
This was the ancient Persia which was much larger than Iran today.
For mest64, I agree with you.
There is no reason why anyone should use fake names unless they have some secret mission.
For me, I want no part of any of the mesy64 or other fake names from mesyana.
I think it is good to ignore all attempts from mesy64 to beg for circuits.
This forum is for people who want to experiment with LRL principles, not for fake names to come and continue to ask for more circuits.

Thank you for your help with some good engineering in other threads.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_Player
Also I am thank you, you are smart engineer, I reading all your messages in forum .
You having strong theory.:thumb:
Best regards.

Fred

01-13-2012, 05:59 PM

At this speed of progress in a few days we will have pictures of treasures everywhere.
And JP will be a worldwide known Prophet/God/ saint/guru (your choice)

ma330

01-13-2012, 06:41 PM

Your believe.What is the power of detection in this pd?:)

ma330

01-13-2012, 08:25 PM

my pcb is Ready:)

Fred

01-13-2012, 08:41 PM

my pcb is Ready:)
I may be wrong but it seems you have reversed it.For your luck there are no ICÂ´s, but you will need to rotate all the transistors 180Âº.

ma330

01-13-2012, 08:52 PM

I may be wrong but it seems you have reversed it.For your luck there are no ICÂ´s, but you will need to rotate all the transistors 180Âº.
no dear fred
Everything is correct.No need to rotate any part. When comes back everything will be in place.I've developed a very PCb with this software.All of them are working.
good luck :)

Fred

01-13-2012, 09:25 PM

Rotate or not rotate, that is the question. :)
Good luck to you too !

ma330

01-13-2012, 09:59 PM

Rotate or not rotate, that is the question. :)
Good luck to you too !
dear fred
I had seen none of the transistors.I just put them in the replica in pcb.And did not specify the base and collector base and emitter of the transistor Because users are free to place transistors.
good luck:);)

WM6

01-14-2012, 12:29 AM

my pcb is Ready:)

Hi ma330, please, left some gold to me too!

J_Player

01-14-2012, 12:33 AM

Hi ma330, please, left some gold to me too!Hi WM6,
You can gold-plate the board, then you will have a built-in sample with many ground currents flowing through it.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

J_Player

01-14-2012, 01:51 AM

More information for the metal locating PD:

I checked an old computer hard drive and found more notes I made from the old forum posts describing this PD adaptation of the original factory locator.
You can see there are some corrections I found.
You can use some of these infos to check if your version is working the same as the original factory version.

1. The 50K sensitivity pot is multi-turn. This will give better control for making fine adjustments to the sensitivity.

2. If you measure the voltage across the ends of the TX coil (same as across the 3.3nF mica capacitor), you will find a maximum peak voltage of 180v. This means you want to use a real mica capacitor that will not have a problem with 180v. This coil measured at 759uH, about 4 ohms. The TX wire size had the appearance of being 0.45mm diameter (AWG 25).

3. The TX coil oscillator has a pulsed frequency that repeats 333 pulses per second. Each of these pulses sends a burst of VLF frequency which decays logarithmically to nothing within 0.6 ms (this is about 1/5 of the time between pulses). This series of pulses is generated at the first transistors which form a relaxation oscillator connected to the TX coil at the tap between the 12T and 3T windings. Your version pistol locator vary a little depending on the exact values and tolerances of the coil and capacitor that you use for the TX, and the pulse rate could vary depending on the tolerances of the components around the first two transistors. [Note: I suspect there may be an error reading the pulses per second. It may be 667 pulses per second if I did not read my notes correctly.]

4. The RX coil voltage measured across the ends (same as measure across 1.8nF capacitor) is 400 mv from peak to peak. This coil measured 4.166mH at 21.2 ohms.
The RX wire size had the appearance of being 0.25mm diameter (AWG 30).

5. Initial pinpointing distance tests in air:
45 cm = coke can
14 cm = aluminium sheet 14cm x 9cm
1.2 m = other large metal objects

No problem pinpointing to find the correct place to dig a hole
Discriminates from ferrous to non-ferrous
Detected the engineer's hand when he moved it close to the coil.

I assume the discrimination accomplished by the tone that is heard on the speaker.
This would mean there is a difference in phase angle of the received signal depending on whether we are detecting a ferrous or non-ferrous metal anomaly, and this phase angle variation is preserved so it can be heard through the audio amplifier.

The corrections I show above will be included in the final compilation for this project.
Remember to make changes to for building from previous posts above.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

J_Player

01-14-2012, 07:36 AM

At this speed of progress in a few days we will have pictures of treasures everywhere.
And JP will be a worldwide known Prophet/God/ saint/guru (your choice)

Originally posted by ma330
Your believe.What is the power of detection in this pd?:)
Hi Fred,
I have no idea what this locator can detect or not detect other than the reports I read.
If I become a famous Prophet/God/ saint/guru, then I will change my name like mesy64 does so nobody will know who I am.
I do not need for people to pray to me.

But what about treasure recovery?
There are 40 years history of people recovering treasures when they used this buried metal locator.
I know it will locate treasures from the reports I read.
I have never read any report that it failed to locate a treasure when it was used as the manufacturer recommended.
However, the manufacturer never recommended to configure this locator into a pistol design.
So we hear other reports from people who made modifications to make it into the pistol shape, and even made modifications to the circuits.
Then we hear many stories of locating long distances.
But even the original factory "rifle configuration" was reported to find signals that modern metal locators do not detect.
Where these signals come from, nobody knows for certain.

We must keep in mind that when this locator began finding all these treasures was a time when most treasures had not been recovered yet, so there were more treasures to find.
But after 40 years of metal detectors and other treasure hunting tools, I expect there are fewer treasures to find today.

What is the longest distance of detection?
Second, I do not know the exact distance that this locator can locate treasures.
For pinpointing, I read the report that it can pinpoint farther than most pin-pointers... 45 cm for a coke can is farther than any other pin-pointer that I know of, and it will pinpoint the location of the can with accuracy of maybe 5cm or closer to the correct place to dig the hole.
But for long range, I do not know exactly how far, because people have not made any reports to tell how far when the circuit is unmodified.
This is the reason why I would like to see the field reports from people who actually test it like we read from sakis1.
I think the distance of detection will depend on some details of how it is constructed.
If a builder is careful to take precautions in the construction to avoid transferring the electronic noise from the speaker to the receiver circuit, and makes a very clean null with little metal near the coils, I think he will find better detection of small signals than a different builder who has loose wires bouncing around near the coils, and has metal brackets and screws at the coils.

Third, I am wondering what modifications are necessary to find the long range detection of treasure metals such as gold, platinum, and silver, while ignoring aluminium and lead.
We know from previous reports that it already have some discrimination built in that can be heard as a changed sound on the speaker for different metals.
But I don't know for certain until we see some reports to confirm this.

Detecting sparks from long range:
From what I read, this locator will detect sparks from distant thunderstorms farther than an ordinary metal detector.
We can expect this because it does not have a Faraday shield to block the detection of electric field anomalies.
So we also know it does not intentionally block out the electric component of the VLF reception.

I remember reading reports of it making detection of signals when the closest thunderstorms were hundreds of Km distance.
I am wondering if this locator is detecting the lightning flashes from their disturbance to the ground that could possibly be detected because of the transmission through the telluric currents under the ground.
These are normally very slow fluctuating currents which appear to be DC, unless you look for long enough to see they are AC with a 24 hour cycle, and other lower frequencies superimposed, as well as higher frequencies as we see originating from lightning storms that could be very far distance.

Then what about signals that come from treasures?
As far as I know, treasures do not generate their own signals.
An external source of energy must interact with the location of buried metals to cause an anomaly that could be detected.
This is the principle of all treasure locators, with the exception of a special kind of gamma ray detector, which can detect gamma emissions that originate directly from various elements that are buried.
The external energy which could conceivably show an anomaly at the location of buried metals comes from several sources:
1. The VLF transmitter sends VLF waves that we can expect to penetrate at least 2-3 meters into the ground, and farther depending on the soil conductivity.
2. Chemical energy from chemicals in the ground which corrode small amounts of all metals including gold and platinum, and make them into ions that are suspended into the ground around the buried treasure. This chemical action uses energy which is derived from transfers of the electric charges in the chemical bonds between elements which are combining and separating.
3. The charge from the atmosphere imposes a strong electric field to the surface interface of the of the ground which surrounds the buried metal.
4. Various electric currents under the ground such as telluric currents, momentary jolts of current from distant thunderstorms, current fluctuations cause by seismic activity, ground battery current from corrosion of metal or other nearby elements oxidising or reducing, 50-60Hz ground currents from nearby power generation and ground rods, etc. are more external energy sources which can find anomalies when a buried metal object is in the ground.
5. Nuclear decay and collisions from other elements under the ground can impart energy to the buried metal, or to the chemically charged ground around it that may show an anomaly in the location of the buried metal.
6. Effects of cosmic rays and other energies acting on the buried metals that are not well understood by most treasure hunters are another source of external energy impinging on the ground at the buried metal location.

There are many other external sources of energy which could disturb the buried metal or the soil around it which could be charged with corroding ions from the metal.
So we have a lot of choices for what kind of energy anomaly to look for in the vicinity of the treasure.
Of course, the most obvious external source of external energy is the VLF transmitter you are waving toward the location where you want to look for buried metals.
In normal metal detecting, we expect the energy from the magnetic component of the VLF will induce currents in the buried metal which will result in an anomaly that can be detected from the RX coil.
But this only works for short ranges.
The difference with this locator is it is not limited to receiving the magnetic component of the VLF that the transmitter sends out.
It also can receive the electric field component.
And from the reports I have read, it receives electric signals from other sources as well as the locked frequency of the transmitter.

While this kind of reception is usually considered to be noise, who knows which of the external energies that are impinging on the buried treasure can be detected as an anomaly by the RX coil?
It could be detecting any one of the 6 kinds of external energy I listed above, or others that I have not listed.
How can we know what kind of an anomaly near the treasure would possibly be detectable by a locator that is so sensitive that it catches tiny noises that are usually filtered away by modern metal detectors?

As near as I can remember, the engineer who adapted his original factory version of this locator reported detecting some very strange signals that he could not identify from any particular source.
But that's not all.
Apparently, this same engineer converted at least one other metal locator to a PD configuration which used a similar electronic design from a different manufacturer and found the same kind of strange signals being detected that his other treasure hunting equipment could not locate.
When engineers find this condition, they often think they have detected noise. And indeed they have!
But it seems so strange that we heard no more about the strange signals he detected, and soon nothing more about his PD modified locator.
This is why I think he went treasure hunting.
Did he figure out where these signals came from?
How much treasure did he recover over the years since I saw his last posts about these PDs that he constructed?
Did he make modifications to his original factory circuits to tune in the treasures with more accuracy and more distance?

Perhaps we will never know.
But we now have the exact same circuit that he started with.
So we can discover for ourselves what this locator can do and we can make our own modifications like sakis1 did.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

ma330

01-14-2012, 07:40 AM

Hi ma330, please, left some gold to me too!
for dera freand wm6:)

ma330

01-14-2012, 07:52 AM

Hi Fred,
I have no idea what this locator can detect or not detect other than the reports I read.
If I become a famous Prophet/God/ saint/guru, then I will change my name like mesy64 does so nobody will know who I am.
I do not need for people to pray to me.

But what about treasure recovery?
There are 40 years history of people recovering treasures when they used this buried metal locator.
I know it will locate treasures from the reports I read.
I have never read any report that it failed to locate a treasure when it was used as the manufacturer recommended.
However, the manufacturer never recommended to configure this locator into a pistol design.
So we hear other reports from people who made modifications to make it into the pistol shape, and even made modifications to the circuits.
Then we hear many stories of locating long distances.
But even the original factory "rifle configuration" was reported to find signals that modern metal locators do not detect.
Where these signals come from, nobody knows for certain.

We must keep in mind that when this locator began finding all these treasures was a time when most treasures had not been recovered yet, so there were more treasures to find.
But after 40 years of metal detectors and other treasure hunting tools, I expect there are fewer treasures to find today.

What is the longest distance of detection?
Second, I do not know the exact distance that this locator can locate treasures.
For pinpointing, I read the report that it can pinpoint farther than most pin-pointers... 45 cm for a coke can is farther than any other pin-pointer that I know of, and it will pinpoint the location of the can with accuracy of maybe 5cm or closer to the correct place to dig the hole.
But for long range, I do not know exactly how far, because people have not made any reports to tell how far when the circuit is unmodified.
This is the reason why I would like to see the field reports from people who actually test it like we read from sakis1.
I think the distance of detection will depend on some details of how it is constructed.
If a builder is careful to take precautions in the construction to avoid transferring the electronic noise from the speaker to the receiver circuit, and makes a very clean null with little metal near the coils, I think he will find better detection of small signals than a different builder who has loose wires bouncing around near the coils, and has metal brackets and screws at the coils.

Third, I am wondering what modifications are necessary to find the long range detection of treasure metals such as gold, platinum, and silver, while ignoring aluminium and lead.
We know from previous reports that it already have some discrimination built in that can be heard as a changed sound on the speaker for different metals.
But I don't know for certain until we see some reports to confirm this.

Detecting sparks from long range:
From what I read, this locator will detect sparks from distant thunderstorms farther than an ordinary metal detector.
We can expect this because it does not have a Faraday shield to block the detection of electric field anomalies.
So we also know it does not intentionally block out the electric component of the VLF reception.

I remember reading reports of it making detection of signals when the closest thunderstorms were hundreds of Km distance.
I am wondering if this locator is detecting the lightning flashes from their disturbance to the ground that could possibly be detected because of the transmission through the telluric currents under the ground.
These are normally very slow fluctuating currents which appear to be DC, unless you look for long enough to see they are AC with a 24 hour cycle, and other lower frequencies superimposed, as well as higher frequencies as we see originating from lightning storms that could be very far distance.

Then what about signals that come from treasures?
As far as I know, treasures do not generate their own signals.
An external source of energy must interact with the location of buried metals to cause an anomaly that could be detected.
This is the principle of all treasure locators, with the exception of a special kind of gamma ray detector, which can detect gamma emissions that originate directly from various elements that are buried.
The external energy which could conceivably show an anomaly at the location of buried metals comes from several sources:
1. The VLF transmitter sends VLF waves that we can expect to penetrate at least 2-3 meters into the ground, and farther depending on the soil conductivity.
2. Chemical energy from chemicals in the ground which corrode small amounts of all metals including gold and platinum, and make them into ions that are suspended into the ground around the buried treasure. This chemical action uses energy which is derived from transfers of the electric charges in the chemical bonds between elements which are combining and separating.
3. The charge from the atmosphere imposes a strong electric field to the surface interface of the of the ground which surrounds the buried metal.
4. Various electric currents under the ground such as telluric currents, momentary jolts of current from distant thunderstorms, current fluctuations cause by seismic activity, ground battery current from corrosion of metal or other nearby elements oxidising or reducing, 50-60Hz ground currents from nearby power generation and ground rods, etc. are more external energy sources which can find anomalies when a buried metal object is in the ground.
5. Nuclear decay and collisions from other elements under the ground can impart energy to the buried metal, or to the chemically charged ground around it that may show an anomaly in the location of the buried metal.
6. Effects of cosmic rays and other energies acting on the buried metals that are not well understood by most treasure hunters are another source of external energy impinging on the ground at the buried metal location.

There are many other external sources of energy which could disturb the buried metal or the soil around it which could be charged with corroding ions from the metal.
So we have a lot of choices for what kind of energy anomaly to look for in the vicinity of the treasure.
Of course, the most obvious external source of external energy is the VLF transmitter you are waving toward the location where you want to look for buried metals.
In normal metal detecting, we expect the energy from the magnetic component of the VLF will induce currents in the buried metal which will result in an anomaly that can be detected from the RX coil.
But this only works for short ranges.
The difference with this locator is it is not limited to receiving the magnetic component of the VLF that the transmitter sends out.
It also can receive the electric field component.
And from the reports I have read, it receives electric signals from other sources as well as the locked frequency of the transmitter.

While this kind of reception is usually considered to be noise, who knows which of the external energies that are impinging on the buried treasure can be detected as an anomaly by the RX coil?
It could be detecting any one of the 6 kinds of external energy I listed above, or others that I have not listed.
How can we know what kind of an anomaly near the treasure would possibly be detectable by a locator that is so sensitive that it catches tiny noises that are usually filtered away by modern metal detectors?

As near as I can remember, the engineer who adapted his original factory version of this locator reported detecting some very strange sounds that he could not identify from any particular source.
But that's not all.
Apparently, this same engineer converted at least one other metal locator to a PD configuration which used a similar electronic design from a different manufacturer and found the same kind of strange signals being detected that his other treasure hunting equipment could not locate.
When engineers find this condition, they often think they have detected noise. And indeed they have!
But it seems so strange that we heard no more about the strange signals he detected, and soon nothing more about his PD modified locator.
This is why I think he went treasure hunting.
Did he figure out where these signals came from?
How much treasure did he recover over the years since I saw his last posts about these PDs that he constructed?
Did he make modifications to his original factory circuits to tune in the treasures with more accuracy and more distance?

Perhaps we will never know.
But we now have the exact same circuit that he started with.
So we can discover for ourselves what this locator can do and we can make our own modifications like sakis1 did.

Best wishes, :)
J_P
j-p tank you for Submit Information:)

WM6

01-14-2012, 03:10 PM

for dera freand wm6:)

Nice PCB, ma330. You are on the way to build best LRL pistol of the world.

Please post some pics of populated PCB too.

ma330

01-14-2012, 04:42 PM

Nice PCB, ma330. You are on the way to build best LRL pistol of the world.

Please post some pics of populated PCB too.
tank you wm6
I'm a little busy working.It takes time to build it for me.But as soon as I made sure of this information.
Which one of the other building is the pd?

sakis1

01-15-2012, 10:25 AM

Hi Fred,
I have no idea what this locator can detect or not detect other than the reports I read.
If I become a famous Prophet/God/ saint/guru, then I will change my name like mesy64 does so nobody will know who I am.
I do not need for people to pray to me.

But what about treasure recovery?
There are 40 years history of people recovering treasures when they used this buried metal locator.
I know it will locate treasures from the reports I read.
I have never read any report that it failed to locate a treasure when it was used as the manufacturer recommended.
However, the manufacturer never recommended to configure this locator into a pistol design.
So we hear other reports from people who made modifications to make it into the pistol shape, and even made modifications to the circuits.
Then we hear many stories of locating long distances.
But even the original factory "rifle configuration" was reported to find signals that modern metal locators do not detect.
Where these signals come from, nobody knows for certain.

We must keep in mind that when this locator began finding all these treasures was a time when most treasures had not been recovered yet, so there were more treasures to find.
But after 40 years of metal detectors and other treasure hunting tools, I expect there are fewer treasures to find today.

What is the longest distance of detection?
Second, I do not know the exact distance that this locator can locate treasures.
For pinpointing, I read the report that it can pinpoint farther than most pin-pointers... 45 cm for a coke can is farther than any other pin-pointer that I know of, and it will pinpoint the location of the can with accuracy of maybe 5cm or closer to the correct place to dig the hole.
But for long range, I do not know exactly how far, because people have not made any reports to tell how far when the circuit is unmodified.
This is the reason why I would like to see the field reports from people who actually test it like we read from sakis1.
I think the distance of detection will depend on some details of how it is constructed.
If a builder is careful to take precautions in the construction to avoid transferring the electronic noise from the speaker to the receiver circuit, and makes a very clean null with little metal near the coils, I think he will find better detection of small signals than a different builder who has loose wires bouncing around near the coils, and has metal brackets and screws at the coils.

Third, I am wondering what modifications are necessary to find the long range detection of treasure metals such as gold, platinum, and silver, while ignoring aluminium and lead.
We know from previous reports that it already have some discrimination built in that can be heard as a changed sound on the speaker for different metals.
But I don't know for certain until we see some reports to confirm this.

Detecting sparks from long range:
From what I read, this locator will detect sparks from distant thunderstorms farther than an ordinary metal detector.
We can expect this because it does not have a Faraday shield to block the detection of electric field anomalies.
So we also know it does not intentionally block out the electric component of the VLF reception.

I remember reading reports of it making detection of signals when the closest thunderstorms were hundreds of Km distance.
I am wondering if this locator is detecting the lightning flashes from their disturbance to the ground that could possibly be detected because of the transmission through the telluric currents under the ground.
These are normally very slow fluctuating currents which appear to be DC, unless you look for long enough to see they are AC with a 24 hour cycle, and other lower frequencies superimposed, as well as higher frequencies as we see originating from lightning storms that could be very far distance.

Then what about signals that come from treasures?
As far as I know, treasures do not generate their own signals.
An external source of energy must interact with the location of buried metals to cause an anomaly that could be detected.
This is the principle of all treasure locators, with the exception of a special kind of gamma ray detector, which can detect gamma emissions that originate directly from various elements that are buried.
The external energy which could conceivably show an anomaly at the location of buried metals comes from several sources:
1. The VLF transmitter sends VLF waves that we can expect to penetrate at least 2-3 meters into the ground, and farther depending on the soil conductivity.
2. Chemical energy from chemicals in the ground which corrode small amounts of all metals including gold and platinum, and make them into ions that are suspended into the ground around the buried treasure. This chemical action uses energy which is derived from transfers of the electric charges in the chemical bonds between elements which are combining and separating.
3. The charge from the atmosphere imposes a strong electric field to the surface interface of the of the ground which surrounds the buried metal.
4. Various electric currents under the ground such as telluric currents, momentary jolts of current from distant thunderstorms, current fluctuations cause by seismic activity, ground battery current from corrosion of metal or other nearby elements oxidising or reducing, 50-60Hz ground currents from nearby power generation and ground rods, etc. are more external energy sources which can find anomalies when a buried metal object is in the ground.
5. Nuclear decay and collisions from other elements under the ground can impart energy to the buried metal, or to the chemically charged ground around it that may show an anomaly in the location of the buried metal.
6. Effects of cosmic rays and other energies acting on the buried metals that are not well understood by most treasure hunters are another source of external energy impinging on the ground at the buried metal location.

There are many other external sources of energy which could disturb the buried metal or the soil around it which could be charged with corroding ions from the metal.
So we have a lot of choices for what kind of energy anomaly to look for in the vicinity of the treasure.
Of course, the most obvious external source of external energy is the VLF transmitter you are waving toward the location where you want to look for buried metals.
In normal metal detecting, we expect the energy from the magnetic component of the VLF will induce currents in the buried metal which will result in an anomaly that can be detected from the RX coil.
But this only works for short ranges.
The difference with this locator is it is not limited to receiving the magnetic component of the VLF that the transmitter sends out.
It also can receive the electric field component.
And from the reports I have read, it receives electric signals from other sources as well as the locked frequency of the transmitter.

While this kind of reception is usually considered to be noise, who knows which of the external energies that are impinging on the buried treasure can be detected as an anomaly by the RX coil?
It could be detecting any one of the 6 kinds of external energy I listed above, or others that I have not listed.
How can we know what kind of an anomaly near the treasure would possibly be detectable by a locator that is so sensitive that it catches tiny noises that are usually filtered away by modern metal detectors?

As near as I can remember, the engineer who adapted his original factory version of this locator reported detecting some very strange signals that he could not identify from any particular source.
But that's not all.
Apparently, this same engineer converted at least one other metal locator to a PD configuration which used a similar electronic design from a different manufacturer and found the same kind of strange signals being detected that his other treasure hunting equipment could not locate.
When engineers find this condition, they often think they have detected noise. And indeed they have!
But it seems so strange that we heard no more about the strange signals he detected, and soon nothing more about his PD modified locator.
This is why I think he went treasure hunting.
Did he figure out where these signals came from?
How much treasure did he recover over the years since I saw his last posts about these PDs that he constructed?
Did he make modifications to his original factory circuits to tune in the treasures with more accuracy and more distance?

Perhaps we will never know.
But we now have the exact same circuit that he started with.
So we can discover for ourselves what this locator can do and we can make our own modifications like sakis1 did.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

P J. BRAVO nice thoughts.

I believe that if we also work to manage too much in this metal detector.
there is hardly any knowledge of electronic engineering to understand how it works P D!
I taught you how far away from metal detecting and I said how did the phenomenon.
enough to read about the nmr and you'll understand how it can upset the field by the metal.
electronic structures are my hobby not my job?) I like to discover strange phenomena:)
Good luck to those who deal with this construction.

Greetings from GREECE:)

J_Player

01-16-2012, 12:43 AM

look at google images for NMR:)

...P J. BRAVO nice thoughts.

I believe that if we also work to manage too much in this metal detector.
there is hardly any knowledge of electronic engineering to understand how it works P D!
I taught you how far away from metal detecting and I said how did the phenomenon.
enough to read about the nmr and you'll understand how it can upset the field by the metal.
electronic structures are my hobby not my job?) I like to discover strange phenomena:)
Good luck to those who deal with this construction.

Greetings from GREECE:)Hi sakis1,

Thank you for posting your tips to learn about the NMR that you use on your pistol.
I read your all the websites that show images where you say "look at google images for NMR.
I found that all the images showed powerful magnets that are used to create a very strong magnetic field to put unknown samples into so the NMR can be measured.
What I read from the links you showed, the only way to obtain a strong enough magnetic field to detect NMR frequencies requires using a superconducting magnet to make a 12 Tesla or more field field to insert a sample into. Liquid nitrogen and liquid helium are required in order to cool the solenoid coils cold enough to create the superconducting electromagnet so it can reach a large current flow to create this enormous magnetic field.
Of course, the superconducting magnet wire is usually a copper clad niobium-titanium alloy, because ordinary copper wire does not work.
I can see from your google NMR images that a computer is used to make calculations from the MHz data taken from the sensors in the NMR cyrogenic chamber.
The final calculation can identify what element was present from the precession data.
See below for some images I found when I made the google NMR image search as you said.

I had no idea that you have found a way to miniaturize a superconducting solenoid to generate intense magnetic fields strong enough to perform NMR spectrometry.
This is quite a feat.
This magnetic field is only 200,000 times stronger than the earth's natural field, but it should be strong enough to give adequate results for NMR spectroscopy.
It seems even more amazing that you have been able to identify buried samples without placing them into the 12 Tesla superconducting field on your PD first.

What I am wondering are three questions:
1. How do you keep the liquid nitrogen and liquid helium cold long enough for treasure hunting so your superconducting coil can maintain the 12 Tesla field?
2. What power source do you use to drive your superconducting magnet?
3. How did you manage to get buried treasures to precess when they are not first placed inside the 12 Tesla magnet cavity on your PD?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

J_Player

01-16-2012, 01:30 AM

More corrections -- The project is nearly complete.

I found some more notes from the factory for this metal locator.
Keep these corrections for when you build your locator.

These are the factory settings.
These are different from what the engineer measured because there is a variation from tolerances of the components which can cause voltages and frequencies to vary a little for each locator.
Also there could be errors from when taking readings, or from when I took the notes several years ago.

Notes extracted from the factory manual:

1. According to the factory manual, TX and RX Coil frequency is Approximately 100KHz
Notes: These frequencies can be adjusted by the mica capacitor values or by adjusting the coil turns.
The exact frequency is not important as long as it is somewhere near 100KHz.
But it is important that the receiver coil is the same frequency as the transmitter.
You can make adjustments to change the frequency by changing the mica capacitor values for the TX or RX coils.
If you decide to make capacitor adjustments, remember these are mica capacitors which are used to keep a very stable frequency even when the temperature changes.
Any added capacitors should also be mica so you don't loose the temperature stability at the coils.
The capacitors at this location will see up to 180 volts peaks, so be sure you use a capacitor that is good for at least 180 volts.

Another easy way to make frequency adjustments is to adjust the receiver coil turns until the RX coil is at the same frequency as the TX coil.
You can do this by adding a few turns or removing a few turns from BOTH ENDS of the RX coil.
If you add more turns, you will cause the RX coil to reduce the frequency, but removing turns will cause the RX coil to increase frequency.
You want to add or remove turns from the RX coil until it has the same frequency as the TX coil.
Note: Be sure to add or remove the same number of turns from both ends of the RX coil, so when you are done, the coil will have the same number of turns at both ends.
(Example: The original design for the RX coil is 56 turns one side (tap 6-7) and 56 turns other side (tap 7-8 ).
If you remove 2 turns from one end, then you should remove 2 turns at the other side too, for 54 turns one side and 54 turns other side).

2. The factory says the pulsed frequency from the TX coil is approximately 500 pulses per second. (This is the pulse rate that was measured to be 333 pulses per per second).
This pulse is sent to the TX coil at tap 2, between 12T and 3T to cause the coil to send short bursts of 100KHz VLF.
This pulsing can be heard as a demodulated audio tone at the speaker when you hear a detection sound.
The exact number of pulses per second is not important as long as you can hear it make a sound somewhere near 500Hz.
I remember the engineer reported 333 pulses per second, which may have been an error to mean 667 pulses per second.
I think any of these pulse rates will work ok.
The only difference is a faster pulse rates will make a higher pitch tone at the speaker, and it will use more battery power.
For me, I think I would tune for 500Hz to keep the same as the factory design.
Maybe later I would make the pulse rate lower to give longer battery life.
(Adjust the value of the capacitor and resistors at the first 2 transistors to change the pulse rate).

3. Factory manual says the battery life is 50 hours approximately under normal operating conditions. Yayyyy...!! good for long life from a 9v battery http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/clap.gif
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/good.gif

With the information above, I think our project is nearly complete.
I have put all the recent corrections on a single image file (See below).
The new version rev-03 shows several changes and updates:
1. A few changes in resistor values from 10k to 9k1. This was done because these resistors were originally specified as 9k1 5%.
These resistors are at amplifier stages that are critical to remain within a given beta range.
10k may work, but I decided it is better to show the exact factory specified values.
2. Most of the resistors are specified as 10% tolerance, while some are 5%. All these 5% tolerance resistors are shown on the new version.
3. The coil taps are re-numbered to match the ma330 circuit boards. These taps are numbered 1-8 now.
4. I assigned numbers for all the resistors, capacitors and semiconductors so we can troubleshoot easier.
Also note on the new schematic, all the external conductors from parts that connect to the board have a label from A-L.
5. A complete components list is included in the new revision.
6. Corrections were made for coil wire sizes.
7. Several minor modifications to the construction tips were made to show improved methods of construction.

The only work remaining are two items:
1. Check the compatibility of the substitute transistors to find which are the best choices, and check the pin-out for BCE orientation of each substitute choice.
2. Make final labeling on the circuit board to show where each component is placed, then put the circuit boards into the plans.
Some of the board components will need to be marked to be polarized, such as the meter, and the orientation of potentiometers and electrolytic capacitors.
Transistors should be marked BCE so we will know where to connect various transistor substitutes without making a mistake.

But for now, the image below shows the current updated project that can be used with the ma330 circuit boards or made on proto-board.
I think all the components are correct.
Let's keep checking for errors so we can find the last corrections before we make the final project files.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

sakis1

01-16-2012, 09:28 AM

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4544/legacypistolrev03.th.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/38/legacypistolrev03.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

I believe this to cover any questions:)

and this also>>>
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/nmrvar.html

To have a pleasant aspect in this construction?)

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18437&page=2 post #33*****************************waiting anxiously!!!!!!!!!

zarkinos<

WM6

01-16-2012, 10:04 AM

Excellent work J_P.

A model how to make projects.

Fred

01-16-2012, 01:15 PM

That is a complete and well documented project !
So good it could be posted on the other forum, where (i think) if it belongs too :razz:

I would really like to see it working !

Astrodetect

01-17-2012, 08:07 AM

Hi all
My opinion on the subject of what kind of signals we are detecting with the PD is that for me every buried metal generates as you said NOISE, -----so for me it doesnt have to be a special signal but very simply noise being generated from all kinds of phenomena as you mentioned, ------so long as we have some kind of receiver to receive this noise we can detect long range.....

WM6

01-17-2012, 09:49 AM

Morgan

01-19-2012, 01:21 PM

Hi kahyal,
I can see you are a believer that a locator that detects metals will work long range when you put it in a pistol.
Maybe this is true and maybe no.
I see many people make pistols that will detect metal, but they have problems for finding long range.

I know of a circuit schematic for a detector of metals that works by transmitting VLF radio signals very far away from the pistol, then uses a receiver coil to listen for some changes in the signal that is being received.
This locator is so sensitive that it must use a nulling adjustment as well as a sensitivity control for finding signals that can originate in very distant locations.
This circuit was designed by some top electronic engineers in the USA many years ago, but it was forgotten.
What most people do not understand is this locator does not use integrated circuits which filter out the tiny signals that modern designs cannot find.
But LRL experimenters know better.
They know how important these tiny signals are for locating treasure.
They know these signals are lost when they use modern components.
This is why so many LRL experimenters look for this circuit.
I have seen many different versions of this circuit with different transistors and components ... and they do not work for most people who build it.
Maybe this is because they do not use the correct methods for building their PD.
Or... maybe it is because they do not have the correct schematic version.
I hear rumors that the pistol has a difficult time to work when the parts are changed for modern parts.

But I have the original circuit design using the original transistors and all the original components.
Some years ago I read that one of the Geotech engineers has this original locator design made into the pistol project.
He did not build a copy using modern parts.
He has the original locator from 30 years ago which he modified into a PD without changing any components.
He never will tell how much treasure he found.
I am thinking he found many ancient hammered coins, but I do not think he will tell if he found some Celtic gold treasures.
I don't know for certain because he did not say what he recovered or not recovered.
But I remember he said he received some very strange signals that he never received from any of his metal detectors.
Then he became silent.
We never again heard about any more treasures he found...
I can only guess he spends his spare time treasure hunting using his original version PD locator.
Maybe he wants to keep the original design as a secret so only he can use it.
But I will tell all details...!! http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/good.gif

You can look below for a complete schematic.
Nothing is missing. It shows all the original parts that you will see if you open the locator and look on the circuit boards.
There are very few of these original locators left in the world.
People buy them as soon as they are listed for sale, so you will not be able to find one.
But you can build a copy from the original parts, because I show everything below.

Note: one transistor is no longer manufactured, so I put the substitute transistors that you can use to get the same results.
Also, you will need to find a mica capacitor. You can find these on ebay.
Good luck with your PD that detectors metals :)
J_P

Hi J_P

you are very good in electronics and schematics,same as Karl NC.Maybe you are Karl ?!...
And you like so much WHITES brand locators,yes,you and Karl the same person,or iÂ´m wrong?
Nice work ;)

Morgan

01-19-2012, 02:05 PM

J-P
be careful, you don't have permit to contempt to Iran.:angry:
your work is great and i am sure you are great man too, and i am sure you don't want to contempt to Iran, so please edit your post as soon as possible !!

Hi Mehdi

I agree with J_P,that Iran is great historical and cultural among the arab countries,but i heard some stories of how your country deal with THÂ´s,simple and clean,they hang them all !!! and this is very bad,i have nothing against arabs,simple not agree with this law,and China apply the same law to THÂ´s !!!
In my country we have 400 years of arab ocupation after the year of 711 DC,when the arabs win big battle(Guadalet) against Visigotic worriors,so also the VISIGOTORUM CODEX is someting bad,barbarians simple cut the right hand if people stole something,but arabs allways hanging until this recent days ??? So,what can worse than put the life of a person so low that can die becouse of TH activity,maybe prisons are overload???thats the point i dont like ,if iÂ´m wrong about this law in your coutry,iÂ´m sorry to post this,but thats what i heard about...

17837

17838

J_Player

01-19-2012, 02:20 PM

Hi J_P

you are very good in electronics and schematics,same as Karl NC.Maybe you are Karl ?!...
And you like so much WHITES brand locators,yes,you and Karl the same person,or iÂ´m wrong?
Nice work ;)Hi Morgan,
No I am not Carl-NC.
He is much smarter in electronics than me.
This is easy to see in some of his posts where he shows some very detailed mathematics that are needed for advanced work with circuit design.
I consider him a brilliant electronic engineer, while I am only a hobbyist without his credentials.

You can also be sure I am not Carl-NC because Carl would never make a post where he considers the location of buried metal may be detectable from a long distance from the secondary effects found in the soil.
You can read his posts where he states that he does not believe halos exist for non-ferrous metals.
But from reading my posts, you can see I consider the "halo effect" to be a residual secondary effect that can happen when buried metals corrode in small amounts over a long period of time.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

WM6

01-19-2012, 03:13 PM

you are very good in electronics and schematics,same as Karl NC.Maybe you are Karl ?!...
And you like so much WHITES brand locators,yes,you and Karl the same person,or iÂ´m wrong?

;)

If J_P is Karl NC, then I am Karolina NC.

Fred

01-19-2012, 07:48 PM

If J_P is Karl NC, then I am Karolina NC.
Hi Karolina !
♥♥

mosha

01-19-2012, 11:13 PM

[QUOTE=Morgan;141540]Hi Mehdi

I agree with J_P,that Iran is great historical and cultural among the arab countries,but i heard some stories of how your country deal with THÂ´s,simple and clean,they hang them all !!! and this is very bad,i have nothing against arabs,simple not agree with this law,and China apply the same law to THÂ´s !!!
In my country we have 400 years of arab ocupation after the year of 711 DC,when the arabs win big battle(Guadalet) against Visigotic worriors,so also the VISIGOTORUM CODEX is someting bad,barbarians simple cut the right hand if people stole something,but arabs allways hanging until this recent days ??? So,what can worse than put the life of a person so low that can die becouse of TH activity,maybe prisons are overload???thats the point i dont like ,if iÂ´m wrong about this law in your coutry,iÂ´m sorry to post this,but thats what i heard about...
Hi Morgan,

Iran is not Arab country,
Regarding hanging person because of TH, in my country Saudi Arabia TH is not allowed but Also is not a crime, I never heard any one jailed because of TH.

Morgan

01-19-2012, 11:45 PM

WM6

01-20-2012, 08:46 AM

Hi Karolina !
♥♥

Fred, didn't you have something with Wilma??

mehdi

01-20-2012, 08:56 AM

Hi Mehdi

I agree with J_P,that Iran is great historical and cultural among the arab countries,but i heard some stories of how your country deal with THÂ´s,simple and clean,they hang them all !!! and this is very bad,i have nothing against arabs,simple not agree with this law,and China apply the same law to THÂ´s !!!
In my country we have 400 years of arab ocupation after the year of 711 DC,when the arabs win big battle(Guadalet) against Visigotic worriors,so also the VISIGOTORUM CODEX is someting bad,barbarians simple cut the right hand if people stole something,but arabs allways hanging until this recent days ??? So,what can worse than put the life of a person so low that can die becouse of TH activity,maybe prisons are overload???thats the point i dont like ,if iÂ´m wrong about this law in your coutry,iÂ´m sorry to post this,but thats what i heard about...

17837

17838

Morgan, some info about Iran:
Iran is not Arab country, Iran is Persian! The name of Iran (ایران) is the Modern Persian derivative from the Proto-Iranian term Aryānā,, meaning "Land of the Aryans", first attested in Zoroastrianism's Avesta tradition.
The term Ērān is found to refer to Iran in a 3rd century Sassanid inscription, and the Parthian inscription that accompanies it uses the Parthian term "aryān" in reference to Iranians. However historically Iran has been referred to as Persia or similar (La Perse, Persien, PerziÃ«, etc.) by the Western world, mainly due to the writings of Greek historians who called Iran Persis (Περσίς), meaning land of the Persians. In 1935 Rezā Shāh requested that the international community should refer to the country as Iran. Opposition to the name change led to the reversal of the decision, and in 1959 both names were to be used interchangeably. Since the Iranian Revolution in 1979 the official name of the country has been the "Islamic Republic of Iran."
most people that live in Iran are Persian - Azeri( Azerbaijan's turk's) - turkmen's - kurd's and a few Arab's and other people. the language of Iran is farsi but with Arab alphabet.
in Iran TH is not allowed and TH's have 1 or 2 years jail! but not more than this!
if you need more info, i can post more info here.

Fred

01-20-2012, 03:33 PM

Fred, didn't you have something with Wilma??

Wilma?? You mean Messy69 maybe, but i suspected that there was a little supplement to it that i wouldnÂ´t like.

WM6

01-20-2012, 03:42 PM

Wilma?? You mean Messy69 maybe, but i suspected that there was a little supplement to it that i wouldnÂ´t like.

No, no Fred, it is about Wilma. I have photo of you two in delicate position.

Fred

01-20-2012, 04:03 PM

Morgan, some info about Iran:
Was interesting to read mehdi, thanks !

Fred

01-20-2012, 04:07 PM

No, no Fred, it is about Wilma. I have photo of you two in delicate position.
I am sure JP would be happy to see a picture, as long as we can see the hands.

WM6

01-20-2012, 04:39 PM

I am sure JP would be happy to see a picture, as long as we can see the hands.

OK Fred, on your responsibility:

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6300000/Fred-and-Wilma-Flintstone-the-flintstones-6386213-350-424.jpg

Fred

01-20-2012, 06:45 PM

OK Fred, on your responsibility:
I ams sorry WM6, but i had to report this post using the red triangle because of privacy and +18 issues.
Regards,
Fred

Morgan

01-21-2012, 12:04 AM

Morgan, some info about Iran:
Iran is not Arab country, Iran is Persian! The name of Iran (ایران) is the Modern Persian derivative from the Proto-Iranian term Aryānā,, meaning "Land of the Aryans", first attested in Zoroastrianism's Avesta tradition.
The term Ērān is found to refer to Iran in a 3rd century Sassanid inscription, and the Parthian inscription that accompanies it uses the Parthian term "aryān" in reference to Iranians. However historically Iran has been referred to as Persia or similar (La Perse, Persien, PerziÃ«, etc.) by the Western world, mainly due to the writings of Greek historians who called Iran Persis (Περσίς), meaning land of the Persians. In 1935 Rezā Shāh requested that the international community should refer to the country as Iran. Opposition to the name change led to the reversal of the decision, and in 1959 both names were to be used interchangeably. Since the Iranian Revolution in 1979 the official name of the country has been the "Islamic Republic of Iran."
most people that live in Iran are Persian - Azeri( Azerbaijan's turk's) - turkmen's - kurd's and a few Arab's and other people. the language of Iran is farsi but with Arab alphabet.
in Iran TH is not allowed and TH's have 1 or 2 years jail! but not more than this!
if you need more info, i can post more info here.

Hi Mehdi

Thanks for all this information,i see your country as a lot of history and potential treasures.So be careful to not stay this 1 or 2 years in jail.

regards

mehdi

01-21-2012, 01:58 PM

Was interesting to read mehdi, thanks !

thank you:)

mehdi

01-21-2012, 02:00 PM

Hi Mehdi

Thanks for all this information,i see your country as a lot of history and potential treasures.So be careful to not stay this 1 or 2 years in jail.

regards

thank you Morgan, don't worry i am careful ;)

humhum

01-27-2012, 03:06 PM

Hi sakis1,

Thank you for posting your tips to learn about the NMR that you use on your pistol.
I read your all the websites that show images where you say "look at google images for NMR.
I found that all the images showed powerful magnets that are used to create a very strong magnetic field to put unknown samples into so the NMR can be measured.
What I read from the links you showed, the only way to obtain a strong enough magnetic field to detect NMR frequencies requires using a superconducting magnet to make a 12 Tesla or more field field to insert a sample into. Liquid nitrogen and liquid helium are required in order to cool the solenoid coils cold enough to create the superconducting electromagnet so it can reach a large current flow to create this enormous magnetic field.
Of course, the superconducting magnet wire is usually a copper clad niobium-titanium alloy, because ordinary copper wire does not work.
I can see from your google NMR images that a computer is used to make calculations from the MHz data taken from the sensors in the NMR cyrogenic chamber.
The final calculation can identify what element was present from the precession data.
See below for some images I found when I made the google NMR image search as you said.

I had no idea that you have found a way to miniaturize a superconducting solenoid to generate intense magnetic fields strong enough to perform NMR spectrometry.
This is quite a feat.
This magnetic field is only 200,000 times stronger than the earth's natural field, but it should be strong enough to give adequate results for NMR spectroscopy.
It seems even more amazing that you have been able to identify buried samples without placing them into the 12 Tesla superconducting field on your PD first.

What I am wondering are three questions:
1. How do you keep the liquid nitrogen and liquid helium cold long enough for treasure hunting so your superconducting coil can maintain the 12 Tesla field?
2. What power source do you use to drive your superconducting magnet?
3. How did you manage to get buried treasures to precess when they are not first placed inside the 12 Tesla magnet cavity on your PD?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

another link for NMR
http://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/faculty/reusch/VirtTxtJml/Spectrpy/nmr/nmr1.htm

http://www.physorg.com/news3668.html

humhum

01-27-2012, 04:34 PM

NMR with TWO Coil

https://www.victoria.ac.nz/scps/research/research-groups/magnetic-resonance/antarctic-nmr.aspx

http://s50.radikal.ru/i130/1201/df/d74a7e3ea381.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

J_Player

01-27-2012, 07:14 PM

another link for NMR
http://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/facult...y/nmr/nmr1.htm (http://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/faculty/reusch/VirtTxtJml/Spectrpy/nmr/nmr1.htm)

http://www.physorg.com/news3668.html

...NMR with TWO Coil

https://www.victoria.ac.nz/scps/research/research-groups/magnetic-resonance/antarctic-nmr.aspx

http://s50.radikal.ru/i130/1201/df/d74a7e3ea381.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)Hi humhum,
These are very interesting links that explain NMR and NMR measuring instruments.
In your first link, I see a lot of good information about hydrogen resonance in various organic compounds that can be found when using a superconducting magnet to create a 2.35 Tesla magnetic field.

Your second link shows a portable NMR sensor made by researchers from the Berkeley Laurence Laboratory, University of California, and the Institute for Technical Chemistry in Germany.
They found a way to arrange a large Neodymium-Iron-Boron rare earth magnet produce a 0.2 Tesla magnetic field that could detect NMR.
It is good they were able to produce a 0.2 Tesla field, or it wouldn't work, according to the researchers.
“The variations within the magnetic fields of previous portable NMR devices are usually orders of magnitude too large to detect chemical shifts,”

Your third link shows another portable NMR sensor used by scientists near the north pole.
Since they are only looking for structural details of ice, they are not using equipment to identify the hydrogen in the ice.
They are trying to make images more like an MRI image that show the brine pockets in the ice samples they placed inside the coil of their Tecmag-Aries NMR system.
This Tecmag Aries MNR sytem can make images using only a 0.03 Tesla magnetic field, when you are using their software to display it on a computer.
The decay times look roughly similar to what we see on a proton magnetometer for distilled water to precess.

Do you think any of these articles show equipment that you think sakis1 connected to his PD using the metal locator circuit above?

Best wishes, :) J_P

nelson

01-28-2012, 06:25 PM

Hi ma330

have you got any results with this device jet?
Regards
Nelson

for dera freand wm6:)

humhum

01-28-2012, 06:51 PM

They found a way to arrange a large Neodymium-Iron-Boron rare earth magnet produce a 0.2 Tesla magnetic field that could detect NMR.
It is good they were able to produce a 0.2 Tesla field, or it wouldn't work, according to the researchers.

Do you think any of these articles show equipment that you think sakis1 connected to his PD using the metal locator circuit above?

Best wishes, :) J_P

Sakis1 can be use some method for NMR, or like this

J_Player

01-28-2012, 09:43 PM

Sakis1 can be use some method for NMR, or like thisHi humhum,
I am reading the book where your first image came from [E. Buxbaum,
Biophysical Chemistry of Proteins: An Introductionto Laboratory Methods,
DOI 10.1007/978-1-4419-7251-4 34,Â© Springer Science+Business Media, LLC 2011].
On page 306, they say this works in superconducting magnetic fields.
"...nuclei with j ≠ 0 have a magnetic moment uN and can orient themselves parallel or antiparallel to an external mag-netic ﬁeld (with a strength B0 of several Tesla), similar to a compass needle in themagnetic ﬁeld of the earth. External magnetic ﬁelds are generated in superconduc-tive coils (Nb-alloys), cooled by liquid helium. The sample, however, is insulated from the cryogenic ﬂuid and usually kept at room temperature...
... With the magnetic ﬁeld strength cur-rently available (several Tesla), this LARMOR-frequency is in the order of several100MHz (500MHz at 12T is typical for current instruments)".

The magnet image they show is not a super conducting magnet coil that is used in the NMR spectroscopy.
They show this simple horseshoe magnet only to show which direction the magnetic field is pointing.
But the magnetic field they require has a strength of several Teslas or more.
They are talking about 9-12 Tesla fields that are created with superconducting magnets to produce 100-500MHz NMR frequencies.

To give you an idea,
The magnets that are used for holding papers the side of a refrigerator usually have about 0.05 Tesla field strength.
But 1 Tesla minimum field for NMR.
1 Tesla is 20 million times stronger than the earth's field, and it will cause all ferrous things near to become stuck to the magnet so you will have a very hard time to remove them.
But 1 Tesla magnetic field is not good for high resolution identification of samples. It is usually used for MRI imaging.
You need stronger magnetic fields which are carefully controlled for homogeneity to perform NMR spectroscopy.
This makes me think sakis1 did not use the equipment in this article, because I do not think sakis1 has a magnetic field anywhere near even 1 Tesla on his locator.

Your second image shows a bar magnet and some coils and a sample.
Is this sample the treasure that sakis1 recovered?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

kahyal

01-30-2012, 07:02 PM

Hi humhum,
I am reading the book where your first image came from [E. Buxbaum,
Biophysical Chemistry of Proteins: An Introductionto Laboratory Methods,
DOI 10.1007/978-1-4419-7251-4 34,Â© Springer Science+Business Media, LLC 2011].
On page 306, they say this works in superconducting magnetic fields.
"...nuclei with j ≠ 0 have a magnetic moment uN and can orient themselves parallel or antiparallel to an external mag-netic ﬁeld (with a strength B0 of several Tesla), similar to a compass needle in themagnetic ﬁeld of the earth. External magnetic ﬁelds are generated in superconduc-tive coils (Nb-alloys), cooled by liquid helium. The sample, however, is insulated from the cryogenic ﬂuid and usually kept at room temperature...
... With the magnetic ﬁeld strength cur-rently available (several Tesla), this LARMOR-frequency is in the order of several100MHz (500MHz at 12T is typical for current instruments)".

The magnet image they show is not a super conducting magnet coil that is used in the NMR spectroscopy.
They show this simple horseshoe magnet only to show which direction the magnetic field is pointing.
But the magnetic field they require has a strength of several Teslas or more.
They are talking about 9-12 Tesla fields that are created with superconducting magnets to produce 100-500MHz NMR frequencies.

To give you an idea,
The magnets that are used for holding papers the side of a refrigerator usually have about 0.05 Tesla field strength.
But 1 Tesla minimum field for NMR.
1 Tesla is 20 million times stronger than the earth's field, and it will cause all ferrous things near to become stuck to the magnet so you will have a very hard time to remove them.
But 1 Tesla magnetic field is not good for high resolution identification of samples. It is usually used for MRI imaging.
You need stronger magnetic fields which are carefully controlled for homogeneity to perform NMR spectroscopy.
This makes me think sakis1 did not use the equipment in this article, because I do not think sakis1 has a magnetic field anywhere near even 1 Tesla on his locator.

Your second image shows a bar magnet and some coils and a sample.
Is this sample the treasure that sakis1 recovered?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

hi j_p
pistol or NMR which?

J_Player

01-30-2012, 08:38 PM

hi j_p
pistol or NMR which?Hi kahyal,
The question I am asking is about this image you posted:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17862&stc=1&d=1327776643

My question is about the sample we see at the left side marked yλIKO.
I wonder if you think this sample is some treasure that sakis1 recovered.

It is hard for me to understand how sakis1 was able to detect this treasure from long distance when I see the treasure is secured in a position at the NMR sensor that he added to his PD.
I am wondering how he detected this treasure from a long distance if it was secured in a position at the NMR coil where NMR measurements can be made.
We can read from your links above that NMR cannot work unless the sample is placed at the location of the NMR coil where we find a very powerful magnetic field.
It appears to me that maybe he already found a treasure and put it on the PD.
Is this correct?

But I also have a second question:
Is this really an NMR sensor?
I see only a bar magnet which cannot develop a strong enough field to measure NMR frequencies, even when you put the sample next to it.
Does this bar magnet have other parts we don't see in the image to create a magnetic field of several Teslas strength?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

humhum

01-31-2012, 03:32 AM

Exactly this

does not change anything, as much for the NMR is the functionality in MRI

look at google images for NMR:)

!!

Maybe Sakis1 say this theory :

J_Player

01-31-2012, 08:52 AM

Maybe Sakis1 say this theory :Hi humhum,
I do not think this is the theory that sakis1 says his PD can locate long distance with.
What this image shows is how to solve a sparking problem when you make MRI images to study how cell phone batteries perform.
It has nothing to do with remote locating.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17864&stc=1&d=1327980410

The image you posted is from Argonne National Laboratory, which shows how they solved the problem of sparking that can destroy the NMR coil and the sample inside it when a laboratory tries to make an MRI image of a battery cell.
This image shows a high strength magnetic field solenoid with a small battery placed inside it that has a problem of sparking at the coil which destroys the coil and the battery.
Their solution is to position the battery being tested in a sealed metal disk-shaped container with a second circular metal sensor disk at the opposite end of the apparatus.
This testing is done to determine the cyclic insertion and extraction of lithium in a carbon mixture that is currently used in commercially available lithium-ion batteries by 7Li NMR spectroscopy under actual operating conditions.

We see how sakis1 said his modification can be explained by looking at the google images for NMR and MRI.
But all of the NMR and MRI images I see require a strong magnetic field that cannot be produced by the 9v batteries we see in a portable pistol locator.
NMR and MRI detectors require very high magnetic fields that are not found from common magnets.
This makes me think that the modification sakis1 made is not working from NMR principles.
I think his modification is working from a different principle than MRI or NMR.
Maybe sakis1 can show us more about his modifications so we can see some details to know what he did to change from the original metal locator that I posted above.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

nelson

01-31-2012, 10:56 AM

This is just to know if anyone had build this detector and how is performing.
Regards
Nelson

Hi ma330

have you got any results with this device jet?
Regards
Nelson

Anwar2

08-15-2012, 07:39 AM

Hi J_player
I would ask u about the Pistol whats frequency on TX and RX because Im being to finish building this pistol ;)
regards
Anwar2

J_Player

08-15-2012, 11:55 PM

Hi J_player
I would ask u about the Pistol whats frequency on TX and RX because Im being to finish building this pistol ;)
regards
Anwar2The frequency is approximately 100KHz. See here for details:
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141475&postcount=98

Best Wishes, :)
J_P

Anwar2

08-18-2012, 01:42 PM

I finished the pistol it is working and very higt sound but there is some thing its work tow typ frqencey one is holder and second vlf VLF Ithink 565Hz but the holder I will measur after some time I will tel u
thanks J player for ur answer

Anwar2

08-18-2012, 10:39 PM

J_Player

08-19-2012, 12:50 PM

Hi J-player
see this photos do u think this frquecis are correct I think it working but I dont know hwo its work the sound ok
tooooo like tthis when Iturn pot the sound come soft and stop and get small sound like seeeeHi Anwar2,
500 Hz and 100 KHz is exactly correct according to the factory specifications.
Some people have been running at 333 Hz and 120 KHz and they say this will also work.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Anwar2

08-19-2012, 01:07 PM

Hi Anwar2,
500 Hz and 100 KHz is exactly correct according to the factory specifications.
Some people have been running at 333 Hz and 120 KHz and they say this will also work.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

thanks man and Iadjust the coils placment ( small coil RX ) its detects metals But the distance Im not agree with it may be I used ceramic capasitors for the coils because the mica not availabe in the market here in Dubai

J_Player

08-19-2012, 01:39 PM

thanks man and Iadjust the coils placment ( small coil RX ) its detects metals But the distance Im not agree with it may be I used ceramic capasitors for the coils because the mica not availabe in the market here in DubaiHi Anwar2,
The Mica capacitors have only one advantage.
Mica capacitors are very stable when the temperature changes.
When you use Mica capacitors, the frequency will not change when the temperature changes.
If you can see the TX and RX are at the same frequency, then you should be able to find good tuning with the null control and the sensitivity control, even if they are not Mica capacitors.
But if the TX frequency is different than the RX frequency, then you should make adjustments to make these two frequencies the same.
This can be done by changing the coil capacitors, or by changing the turns on one of the coils until both the TX and RX are the same frequency. (best to change the capacitance to make same frequency).

You can look here to find the method for tuning after the frequencies are the same for TX and RX: http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141428&postcount=59

This circuit is only for the original factory circuit that was designed for short range detection.
It is the exact circuit that was found in the locator that the factory sold more than 40 years ago.
The range for detection was originally less than 1/2 meter when the factory sold these detector kits.
But many experimenters say they find longer detection range after they make modifications to the circuit.
I do not know exactly what modifications these experimenters make to find longer range detection.
Maybe some LRL experimenters can show what modifications are needed to find long range detection from this circuit.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Anwar2

08-20-2012, 09:49 AM

Hi yes J_player your correct Im from Hot tropical country when I used the pistol in cold room and I adjust the pot on pefect point the sound being very low but when I got out of the room the sound been loader and very hight ....and frquency got changed
first time I thought this device may be temprature tester but when u told me about the mica capasitor and reson of use
ibleve ur information are correct 100%

hamidmatris

11-11-2012, 10:14 AM

hi j player.
I had a few questions.

What's this?
This is a pd?

http://upcity.ir/images/66423929501008858035.png

http://upcity.ir/images/30746488180430136640.jpg

This circuit is better or what have you introduced?
Complete one works best?

J_Player

11-11-2012, 12:02 PM

hi j player.
I had a few questions.

What's this?
This is a pd?

This circuit is better or what have you introduced?
Complete one works best?Hi hamidmatris,
From what I can see, this circuit is not the same as the circuit that I posted above.
I posted the original factory design of a metal locator which was designed in the USA, showing how to modify it to put it into a pistol shape.

The circuit you show has similarities to my circuit, but it has been modified in many places.
I see changes in the nulling circuit, and several other component values which were changed in other parts of the circuit.
I also see a complete separate RF receiver is added with a demodulator and filter section.
Then I see the audio amplifier and speaker are changed to be replaced with a piezo beeper after mixing the signals from the locator and the receiver in a strange way.
There is no speaker and there is no meter on the circuit you show.
This means you cannot calibrate this circuit for null by using the meter as I have shown above, and you cannot expect the meter to show the pinpointing test correctly.

My opinion is this circuit is not the same as the circuit which I show above.
But this circuit has the appearance as being a modification to the circuit I show above.
I do not know if it is better than my circuit or not.
I have heard no reports to tell the performance of my circuit and comparative performance of the circuit that you show.

Maybe the circuit you show is better performance, maybe it is the same, or maybe it is worse.
I don't know.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

hamidmatris

11-11-2012, 06:59 PM

What's this?
http://upcity.ir/images/88868758337636397911.png

http://upcity.ir/images/60884564818525823144.png

http://upcity.ir/images/56955242256459154923.jpg
Help me pls.

hamidmatris

11-11-2012, 07:20 PM

Hi hamidmatris,
From what I can see, this circuit is not the same as the circuit that I posted above.
I posted the original factory design of a metal locator which was designed in the USA, showing how to modify it to put it into a pistol shape.

The circuit you show has similarities to my circuit, but it has been modified in many places.
I see changes in the nulling circuit, and several other component values which were changed in other parts of the circuit.
I also see a complete separate RF receiver is added with a demodulator and filter section.
Then I see the audio amplifier and speaker are changed to be replaced with a piezo beeper after mixing the signals from the locator and the receiver in a strange way.
There is no speaker and there is no meter on the circuit you show.
This means you cannot calibrate this circuit for null by using the meter as I have shown above, and you cannot expect the meter to show the pinpointing test correctly.

My opinion is this circuit is not the same as the circuit which I show above.
But this circuit has the appearance as being a modification to the circuit I show above.
I do not know if it is better than my circuit or not.
I have heard no reports to tell the performance of my circuit and comparative performance of the circuit that you show.

Maybe the circuit you show is better performance, maybe it is the same, or maybe it is worse.
I don't know.

Best wishes, :)
J_P
tnx for your answer

J_Player

11-12-2012, 03:29 AM

What's this?
http://upcity.ir/images/88868758337636397911.png

http://upcity.ir/images/60884564818525823144.png

http://upcity.ir/images/56955242256459154923.jpg
Help me pls.I don't know what this is.
It is not part of the project which I show above.
My circuit has no parts which look like the photos you show.
You should send an email to the person who made your photos and ask what is the part that you have circled.
Maybe the person who made the photographs knows what that part is.

Best Wishes, :)
J_P

sakis1

11-12-2012, 11:30 AM

Morgan

11-12-2012, 11:50 AM

I don't know what this is.
It is not part of the project which I show above.
My circuit has no parts which look like the photos you show.
You should send an email to the person who made your photos and ask what is the part that you have circled.
Maybe the person who made the photographs knows what that part is.

Best Wishes, :)
J_P

This looks one of the PD sold by Vasilis the greek LRL maker,
the object behind the Omega coil is the Ferrite.

J_Player

11-12-2012, 12:04 PM

This looks one of the PD sold by Vasilis the greek LRL maker,
the object behind the Omega coil is the Ferrite.Hi Morgan,
If this is the PD sold by Vasilis, then anyone who wants to know for certain about the details can send an email to Vasilis.
This circuit board is not the same as the schematic I see below it, and it is not the same as the schematic I made.
This circuit board I see is a modification of the circuit we see printed below it.
I think only the person who built this modified board will know all the details for what the parts are.

Best Wishes, :)
J_P

vali

11-12-2012, 01:43 PM

Hello hamidmatris. Has a ferrite on the radio waves are used to receive signals. Andreas will help if you ask. Thanks......:cool:

WM6

11-12-2012, 01:43 PM

This is Ferrite antenna.

hamidmatris

11-12-2012, 02:33 PM

I don't know what this is.
It is not part of the project which I show above.
My circuit has no parts which look like the photos you show.
You should send an email to the person who made your photos and ask what is the part that you have circled.
Maybe the person who made the photographs knows what that part is.

Best Wishes, :)
J_P

hi J_player.
Please tell me
What is the depth at which it occurs?
Have you made something with your own eyes have seen
Thank you

J_Player

11-12-2012, 04:36 PM

hi J_player.
Please tell me
What is the depth at which it occurs?
Have you made something with your own eyes have seen
Thank youHi hamidmatris,
For the project that I show above, I have seen no testing for depth with my own eyes.
Here is the depth that was reported by other people who used my circuit in a pistol design:
This is a test report for only the project that I posted.
It is not the depth that was reported for the modifications to the circuit I posted:
45 cm = coke can
14 cm = aluminium sheet 14cm x 9cm
1.2 m = other large metal objects

I also heard reports from other people who used this same design, and found larger distances and smaller distances.
But I did not see any test for this project with my own eyes.

For the other modification pistol, I have never seen any test with my own eyes.
I do not know what depth the modification pistol can detect.

Best Wishes, :)
J_P

hamidmatris

11-13-2012, 08:55 AM

Hello hamidmatris. Has a ferrite on the radio waves are used to receive signals. Andreas will help if you ask. Thanks......:cool:

hi vali.
I'll put a few photos for you that they've found one other forum.
If you know the reason for making this form to tell me.
So it works best?
http://upcity.ir/images/27227595977201427012.jpg
http://upcity.ir/images/59443852558159211533.jpg
http://upcity.ir/images/68882365858669222317.jpg
http://upcity.ir/images/84821238982400664678.jpg
Thank you

hamidmatris

11-13-2012, 07:35 PM

Hi hamidmatris,
For the project that I show above, I have seen no testing for depth with my own eyes.
Here is the depth that was reported by other people who used my circuit in a pistol design:
This is a test report for only the project that I posted.
It is not the depth that was reported for the modifications to the circuit I posted:
45 cm = coke can
14 cm = aluminium sheet 14cm x 9cm
1.2 m = other large metal objects

I also heard reports from other people who used this same design, and found larger distances and smaller distances.
But I did not see any test for this project with my own eyes.

For the other modification pistol, I have never seen any test with my own eyes.
I do not know what depth the modification pistol can detect.

Best Wishes, :)
J_P
hi J_player
Thank you

ikumi5

12-27-2012, 07:00 AM

i already build this pd less the housing co'z i'm trying to calibrate it with maximum performance

my PCB.

regards!!!
ikumi5

J_Player

12-28-2012, 01:13 AM

i already build this pd less the housing co'z i'm trying to calibrate it with maximum performance

my PCB.

regards!!!
ikumi5Hi ikumi5,

This is a very good construction for this project.
If you are ready to make calibration for maximum performance, then you must first complete construction of the box that will hold the electronics and attach it to the wooden disk for the coils.

Here are the tips:
1. When you make final calibrations for best performance, the metals from the circuit and the batteries will make an influence on the coils and the null point.
The true null can only be found after the electronic parts are put into their final position.
If you make calibration before putting the electronics in their final position in the box, then the calibration will change after you move the circuit board and batteries to a new position in the box.

2. When you put the electronics in the box, you must keep the batteries far away from the coils.
Also any meters and switches should be kept far away from the coils.
These coils will act as a metal detector, so any metal near the coils will serve to weaken the detection ability.
See my diagram here that shows the batteries and meters far away from the coils:
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17815&stc=1&d=1326453114

After the electronic parts are put into the box in their final position, then it is time to make final calibrations for the coils.
It is best to make the small Rx coil adjustable so you can change the null point later.
If you glue it in a null point, then you will not be able to move the Rx coil again if you need to move it to make corrections for a good null. You will need to move the Rx coil again if you move the electronic parts inside the box to a new position. Here is a way you can make adjustment slots for future adjusting of null below:
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17791&stc=1&d=1326275639

After the electronics are in their final position, you can use this calibration method to find the best null position, and to test for detection range: http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/.php?p=141428&postcount=59showpost

Good luck with your locator!
Best Wishes,
J_P

nelson

12-28-2012, 11:06 AM

Nice job ikumi5

Can you share us Livewire files?

Keep us inform about your success

Regards

Nelson

i already build this pd less the housing co'z i'm trying to calibrate it with maximum performance

my PCB.

regards!!!
ikumi5

J_Player

12-28-2012, 03:22 PM

i already build this pd less the housing co'z i'm trying to calibrate it with maximum performance

my PCB.

regards!!!
ikumi5Hi ikumi5,
My link for making calibration was wrong, so I show the calibration method here:

1. First, we look at your circuit boards and coils, and we need to make a test to see if the circuit is working before putting the electronics and batteries in the final position of the pistol.
You can move the small RX coil to find a null location on the TX coil, then use tape to hold the coils in the null position.
You must connect the meter to find the null location.
You will need to watch this meter to determine when the best null is found.
Here is the method to find the null location:
A. Set the null control potentiometer to the center position (50%).
B. Turn the sensitivity control down until the meter is at 1/2 position (50%).
C. Then move the position of the RX coil until you find the lowest possible signal on the meter.
D. Then increase the sensitivity to find the highest signal on the meter without moving the coils.
E. Now, move the Rx coil to find the lowest meter reading.
F. At this point, you found the approximate null position for the coils. You can repeat steps C, D and E to find a more precise null position.
You want to move the coil position so it will show the smallest signal when the sensitivity is set to a high sensitivity setting.
When you find the approximate null location for the Rx coil. then move a metal object near the coils to see if you find a signal.
The meter reading should increase, and the speaker should make a sound when you move a coin or a key near the coils.

2. What to do if you cannot find a null?
If you are not seeing any signal when you move metal objects near the coils, then you should check your circuit for errors.
Check for errors as follows:
A. Look at the circuit board or the breadboard closely to make sure you have good solder joints.
Also check to see there is no place where the solder is spread out where it is touching a different conductor that it should not touch.
B. Clean all of the solder joints and the circuit board with alcohol and wipe it dry with a soft cloth to remove any flux residue. Methylated spirits is the best solvent to use.
C. Look at the wires that connect the coils to the circuit.
These wires should not be long wires tangled through the box.
They should be kept short so they do not pick up electronic noise from the rest of the circuits.
D. If these steps do not solve the problem, then you must check the circuit for components installed wrong, wrong wire connections, or maybe even bad parts.
You can check all the resistors and capacitors with a meter to make sure they are close to the correct values shown.
Also, there may be some cheap Chinese counterfeit components which are causing a problem in the circuit.
The only parts which come to mind are the zener diode, and maybe the transistors.
Be sure to check the base, collector and emitters are connected to the correct locations in the circuit.
Some manufacturers change the pin assignments so they are different from other manufacturers.

3. Install the electronics and batteries into the box for the pistol.
If you find the coils are making a signal when you move metal things near them, then you are ready to put the electronics parts in the pistol for their final position.
You should be careful to keep the large metal parts located away from the coils.
Parts to keep away are the batteries, meters and switches.
The circuit board for the audio amplifier should be kept away, while the circuit board for the RF transmitter and receiver should be close to the coils, to allow short wires connecting to the coils.
The objective is to keep heavy metal things away from the coils, because they will cause a signal that you do not want.
Also you want to keep the audio amplifier away because it could develop problems if it picks up inductive noise from the TX coil, and it can also cause problems by leaking audio signals into the Rx coil.
The circuit boards were designed with these problems in mind, so you already have the correct configuration on the circuit boards.
When you make the final construction of the pistol, then you must build a method to make later adjustments to the position of the Rx coil null.
You will need to do this because the Rx null will probably need to be moved after you make the pistol enclosure.

4. Final calibration for maximum detection
After you have all the parts installed on your pistol, then you can make the final calibration for maximum detection.
You will have a good approximate null from your earlier null testing.
But since the metal parts from the circuit boards and batteries were moved, you will need to make another calibration for null.
This is done outside of the laboratory, away from all metal things and electronic noises.
You will be following the same procedures that you used in section 1 above.
You should repeat this nulling procedure 2 or 3 times until you cannot find any better null position for the RX coil.
Then lock the RX coil into position so it will not move. This is your best null.

Here is the method to find the null location repeated again:
A. Set the null control potentiometer to the center position (50%).
B. Turn the sensitivity control down until the meter is at 1/2 position (50%).
C. Then move the position of the RX coil until you find the lowest possible signal on the meter.
D. Then increase the sensitivity to find the highest signal on the meter without moving the coils.
E. Now, move the Rx coil to find the lowest meter reading.
F. At this point, you found the approximate null position for the coils. You can repeat steps C, D and E to find a more precise null position.
You want to move the coil position so it will show the smallest signal when the sensitivity is set to a high sensitivity setting.
When you find the approximate null location for the Rx coil. then move a metal object near the coils to see if you find a signal.
The meter reading should increase, and the speaker should make a sound when you move a coin or a key near the coils.

5. Later modifications.
You may wish to make modifications to your locator for longer range detection.
Some people have added coils, ferrites, circuits and even metal samples to improve the performance.
But any of these things added to the pistol can change the null balance to the Rx coil.
You should re-calibrate the Rx coil any time you add new parts to the pistol or move parts that are close to the coils (see section 4 above to re-calibrate).

Remember, you also have a null control knob which was adjusted to the center position.
This control knob can adjust minor shifts in the null so you don't have to move the coil.
But if the null control is near the end of the travel (near 0% or near 100%), then you will need to move the Rx coil so the null control will be at the center position (50%).

Best Wishes,
J_P

ikumi5

12-28-2012, 11:57 PM

J_Player

12-30-2012, 12:23 PM

thanks j_player
update to my experiment pd
1. it cannot detect plier,screw driver, small wire even you put in the coil
2. it can detect ring, large tin can, small wire in shorted form (O), car body (large metal object) but in reverse detecting procedure (you have to hear the beeping sound when you track the car body the beeping gone)
any idea?

regards!!!
happy new year to all

ikumi5It sounds like you did not make a good null to the coils.
See the instructions in section 1 above to set the null position. http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=144798&postcount=158
If you have the best null, then maybe you have errors in the circuit.
See the instructions in section 2 above for checking for errors.
After you complete the nulling procedure and check for bad components and errors, if you still have bad detection, then you can make some tests in the circuit to see where the problem is.
Look at the diagram below where there are red numbers.
You can turn on the locator and set it so it is ready to detect metal.
Then measure the voltages at each of the red numbers against the ground wire.
Post your voltage readings for all the red numbers, and I can help to find where the problem is.

Best Wishes,
J_P

ikumi5

01-02-2013, 12:24 AM

here's my voltage reading using piezo speaker

mustefa ubram

01-03-2013, 08:15 PM

hi dear ikumi5
It is evident from the remote earth metals?
Please explain about the functionality and quality?

J_Player

01-03-2013, 11:15 PM

here's my voltage reading using piezo speakerHi Ikumi5,
Your voltage readings look fairly good except audio amplifier - in the area of the speaker and the meter.
From what you posted, here is what I am seeing:

1. You have the wrong speaker. This circuit is not designed to use a piezo speaker.
It needs a speaker with a coil and a magnet.
The piezo speaker is causing problems in the amplifier.
The resistance across the speaker coil wires should be about 100 ohms.
I you don't have a 100 ohm speaker, then you can use stereo headphones that are designed for portable music players and computers.
But you will need to add a resistor in series with the headphones for this circuit.

Each of the two speakers in the earphones should measure somewhere around 30 ohms, or 60 ohms if you are measuring across the two hot connectors at the end of the plug to measure them both in series.
You should connect a resistor in series with the headphone connector to keep the resistance more than 100 ohms.
You can adjust this resistor to change the loudness of the speaker or earphone as long as you have at least 70 ohms, and less than 250 ohms when you measure the two wires that you will connect to the circuit board.
A good choice for resistor is 150 ohms.
See the diagram below for connecting headphones.
If you only want one speaker on the headphones then connect to the right or left channel terminal and to the ground terminal of the headphone jack.
Note: If you connect headphones, they may be very loud, so do not put them on your ears unless you know it is safe.

If you have a 100 ohm speaker, then you can connect directly with no resistor.
If your speaker is more than 250 ohms, you are best not to use it.
If it is less than 70 ohms, then add a series resistor until you have at least 70 ohms but not more than 250 ohms.

2. Some of the other voltages make me think you do not have a good null.
From what I see the null is only a rough null that was not tuned by the meter.
You must have a very good null in order to find good detection.
I don't know why the null is not good, but I am thinking there is a problem with the meter which tells you when you have a good null condition.
Or it could be caused by problems from the piezo speaker.

At this point, I need to know about your control pots and your meter:
3. When you took the voltage readings for the circuit, where was the null pot (R31) adjusted to?
Was it center of the pot or near the end of the movement for the knob?

4. When you took the voltage readings for the circuit, where was the sensitivity pot (R30) adjusted to?
Was it center of the pot or near the end of the movement for the knob?

5. Meter check:
A. When you get maximum detection from a large metal object, how high does the meter move?
B. How much current is passing through the meter when the needle is moved to maximum on the scale?
C. How much voltage do you read across the meter when the needle is moved to maximum on the scale?
D. How much current is passing through the meter when the needle is moved to 50% on the scale?
E. How much voltage do you read across the meter when the needle is moved to 50% on the scale?

Something you should check: Check diodes D3 and D4 to make sure they are functioning correctly.

Best Wishes,
J_P

roccocoin

04-19-2014, 07:12 AM

i already build this pd less the housing co'z i'm trying to calibrate it with maximum performance

my PCB.

regards!!!
ikumi5

hello, I would try to build this pdk, I wanted to know if the bases are positive or should I copy them to the contrary on the auburn whiskers? then what should I do since there are more than one type of sideburns? tanks

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roccocoin

04-19-2014, 12:56 PM

Hi Ikumi5,
Your voltage readings look fairly good except audio amplifier - in the area of the speaker and the meter.
From what you posted, here is what I am seeing:

1. You have the wrong speaker. This circuit is not designed to use a piezo speaker.
It needs a speaker with a coil and a magnet.
The piezo speaker is causing problems in the amplifier.
The resistance across the speaker coil wires should be about 100 ohms.
I you don't have a 100 ohm speaker, then you can use stereo headphones that are designed for portable music players and computers.
But you will need to add a resistor in series with the headphones for this circuit.

Each of the two speakers in the earphones should measure somewhere around 30 ohms, or 60 ohms if you are measuring across the two hot connectors at the end of the plug to measure them both in series.
You should connect a resistor in series with the headphone connector to keep the resistance more than 100 ohms.
You can adjust this resistor to change the loudness of the speaker or earphone as long as you have at least 70 ohms, and less than 250 ohms when you measure the two wires that you will connect to the circuit board.
A good choice for resistor is 150 ohms.
See the diagram below for connecting headphones.
If you only want one speaker on the headphones then connect to the right or left channel terminal and to the ground terminal of the headphone jack.
Note: If you connect headphones, they may be very loud, so do not put them on your ears unless you know it is safe.

If you have a 100 ohm speaker, then you can connect directly with no resistor.
If your speaker is more than 250 ohms, you are best not to use it.
If it is less than 70 ohms, then add a series resistor until you have at least 70 ohms but not more than 250 ohms.

2. Some of the other voltages make me think you do not have a good null.
From what I see the null is only a rough null that was not tuned by the meter.
You must have a very good null in order to find good detection.
I don't know why the null is not good, but I am thinking there is a problem with the meter which tells you when you have a good null condition.
Or it could be caused by problems from the piezo speaker.

At this point, I need to know about your control pots and your meter:
3. When you took the voltage readings for the circuit, where was the null pot (R31) adjusted to?
Was it center of the pot or near the end of the movement for the knob?

4. When you took the voltage readings for the circuit, where was the sensitivity pot (R30) adjusted to?
Was it center of the pot or near the end of the movement for the knob?

5. Meter check:
A. When you get maximum detection from a large metal object, how high does the meter move?
B. How much current is passing through the meter when the needle is moved to maximum on the scale?
C. How much voltage do you read across the meter when the needle is moved to maximum on the scale?
D. How much current is passing through the meter when the needle is moved to 50% on the scale?
E. How much voltage do you read across the meter when the needle is moved to 50% on the scale?

Something you should check: Check diodes D3 and D4 to make sure they are functioning correctly.

Best Wishes,
J_P

J.PLAYER hello, please tell me which board electronics can I do? and that the right one? there are many but I see that they are all negative to positive and I have to print them otherwise I am and I make mistakes, you do not and I can post pictures only right to copy it? tanks

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Grazie per l'invio.

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roccocoin

04-20-2014, 08:45 PM

yes wm6 .I'll put you and other freinds Both the Plan:)
Circuit design in the smallest possible size(4*7cm).Check the circuit for error.
If you find an error please inform the problem
I put the original file attachments.
enjoy
Good luck:);)

hello, I'm building this pdk, but I can not open the RAR file TX, I was interested to know how the connections should be made as they do to get out of TX 5 wires? (1-2 = 12 tourn;
2-3 = 3 tourn; 3-4 = 5 tourn; 4-5 = 12 tourn here is how these are connected to it coming out 5 wires to connect to the base address?

jocelito

04-20-2014, 10:01 PM

if you do this pci, check this error

roccocoin

04-21-2014, 06:13 AM

if you do this pci, check this error

jocelito tanks, pcb I made this hoping that here there are no errors, you may tell me how to link the various tourn of TX? tanks

jocelito

04-21-2014, 01:39 PM

roccocoin

04-21-2014, 05:22 PM

Please help Google Translate improve quality for your language here.
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roccocoin

04-21-2014, 05:28 PM

jocelito hello, thanks for the replies.
but now I would be interested to know how to connect the tx series in order to make that come out 5 wires to be soldered to the base-mail, because I have 4 coils and the final 8 wires, but need 5 for the electronic breadboard, connect 4 reels have 5 wires end? tanks

jocelito

04-21-2014, 06:08 PM

you should make a unique bobiba 32 laps, with 5 outputs.
one at the beginning and then another at 12, 15.20 and another at the end

jocelito

04-21-2014, 06:16 PM

jocelito

04-21-2014, 06:24 PM

I did this a long time, I have no more
http://verde-3230.blogspot.com.br/

roccocoin

04-21-2014, 07:07 PM

I did this a long time, I have no more
http://verde-3230.blogspot.com.br/

jocelito I have to cut this track?

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Chiudi

Grazie per l'invio.

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jocelito

04-21-2014, 07:20 PM

ok
you should cut

roccocoin

04-21-2014, 08:34 PM

ok
you should cut

ok tanks jocelito,hope it works, as soon as I finish I'll know, and I did place the pcb, diagrams are in contrast to the base hope that I do not do ****.

Funfinder

04-21-2014, 10:33 PM

roccocoin

04-22-2014, 06:23 AM

Stop jamming the real important threads here with a flood of "good-looking" electronic-work postings !!!

Show us real provable results with the stuff you wanna built here or stop this nonsense.

This is here not grandmother Milly's astrology prediction forum! :nono:

funfinder hello, I do not understand where is my mistake, I'm an Italian user registered on this forum, and I'm building a PDK for which there are no updates and marked with various errors, jocelito very nice helped me, and what the mistake? in fact you should be proud to have people like jocelito but very very helpful in helping others like me less capable ..... I do not think that is a racist GURU........I'm Italian

roccocoin

04-26-2014, 11:45 AM

assembled but not working, do not sound, do not know if some other error on basetta.qualcuno help me or throw everything? thanks

roccocoin

05-01-2014, 12:25 PM

assembled but not working, do not sound, do not know if some other error on basetta.qualcuno help me or throw everything? thanks

it is true that I do not understand much about electronics, but it is also true that here is not any person who helps you in building a KDP, and do not tell me to buy the infamous book inside metal detector, if this is a forum and someone has a project, why does it? in my country and that Italy and I'm proud if one e-mail him something to make sure that another user can build it, but here it seems to me a thing of science fiction, and all incomplete projects with errors but ..... can never be a wild thing? only FRANCOITALY submit a draft and it's all complete, I built 2 PDK and no one does a full one please Perchee wrong and beautiful that no one helps, please change job and keep all the treasures for you

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daniel

09-14-2014, 12:43 PM

reza vir

09-17-2014, 05:29 PM

Any updates or news on this project? This looks really cool and I want to build this device but it seems like there were errors in the last 1 pcb design from ma330. Did anyone succeed to build a working device?

Thanks very much

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141463&postcount=92

Hey Hey It was closed two years ago.
No conclusions and videos from the device operation.
Results of indoor and outdoor newly buried metal and old metal is different.

reza vir

09-17-2014, 05:32 PM

All files final version

http://s5.picofile.com/file/8141293218/ma330_singel_pcb.zip.html

WM6

09-17-2014, 07:52 PM

Darkness is one step ahead of your final version (or link is not working).

daniel

09-17-2014, 08:08 PM

All files final version

http://s5.picofile.com/file/8141293218/ma330_singel_pcb.zip.html

Thank you very much reza vir!
Link is working fine - you have to click on the "arrow" symbol to download the file.

WM6

09-17-2014, 09:05 PM

Link is working fine - you have to click on the "arrow" symbol to download the file.

Strange! I cannot decipher how "arrow" symbol look like in Persian:

J_Player

09-17-2014, 09:34 PM

All files final version

http://s5.picofile.com/file/8141293218/ma330_singel_pcb.zip.html
Hi reza vir,
Your link does not work.
I will put the complete project below in a single post for anyone who wants it.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17836&stc=1&d=1326677443

Circuit board by ma330:
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17821&stc=1&d=1326467432

Download this PCB file:
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17818&d=1326467353
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17819&d=1326467413
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17820&d=1326467413

Nulling procedure and tuning instructions:

Final checks before making PD calibration:
To begin, let us assume you have completed the construction of the PD version of this locator.
Before you put in the battery, you should make these checks:
First look at the circuit board or the breadboard closely to make sure you have good solder joints.
Also check to see there is no place where the solder is spread out where it is touching a different conductor that it should not touch.
Then clean all of the solder joints and the circuit board with alcohol and wipe it dry with a soft cloth to remove any flux residue.
Methylated spirits is the best solvent to use.
Look at the wires that connect the coils to the circuit.
These wires should not be long wires tangled through the box.
They should be kept short so they do not pick up electronic noise from the rest of the circuits.
Then adjust the sensitivity control to the minimum (0% sensitivity), and put the null control to the center of the adjustment range. (50% at half of the null).
Finally, put in the battery and turn on the power.
Be ready to turn it off if you smell smoke or you see any other electrical problem like the meter stuck to full reading.
If you have no short circuits and everything is connected as it should be, you may hear some sound from the speaker, or maybe not.
Speaker sound is ok, and no sound is ok too.

At this point you will need to adjust the position of the RX coil for a null on the search coil.
First, to explain about the null:
The RX coil is designed to detect anomalies in the VLF wave transmissions that it receives.
But it is located nearly touching the transmitter coil that is broadcasting strong VLF waves which will interfere with the detection that the RX coil is trying to find.
This is the reason why the RX coil is positioned to cross over the center of the transmitter coil.
At this position there is very little of the TX coil power interfering with the RX coil detection.
But we must adjust the position of the RX coil exactly to find the minimum amount of interference from the TX coil.
When we find the position for the minimum interference, we call this the null position for the RX coil.
In this circuit design, we also see there is a null adjustment knob which the designer included to make very fine null adjustments electronically, after we find the best null location to put the RX coil.
The idea for nulling is to first put the RX coil in the best null position that we can find while the electronic adjustment is set to the center of its adjustment range.
Then, you will have a perfect null location with no interference from the TX coil.
This means that the RX coil will only detect anomalies that it finds in the air, not interference from the transmitter.
You will still be able to make fine adjustments when there are physical conditions that cause the null to drift so it is no longer perfectly nulled.
The control knob can make these fine adjustments.
You may need to use the null control knob to make adjustments when you are detecting near mineralized soil, or if some metal part inside your box is moved, or other similar conditions.
So you want to find the best null position for the coil while the null control knob is in the center position.
Now, a method to do this:

How to make the null adjustment:
First move your PD locator away from all metal things. Make sure you do not have rings, watches or other jewelry on your hands.
Leave the null adjustment potentiometer at the center position, and turn the sensitivity until you find a meter reading at the middle of the meter scale (50% meter).
Then move the RX coil until you find the lowest meter reading.
You can move this coil after you loosen the screws at the slotted hole.
Then slide the coil up or down to find where the meter reaches the lowest reading.
If the meter reading reduces down to 0, then turn up the control knob for more sensitivity until you see a meter reading on the scale.
Then make more adjustments to the position of the RX coil until you find the lowest reading.
You should find a position for the RX coil where it shows the lowest meter reading, and the meter will read higher if you move the RX coil up or down.
When you find this position for the RX coil, then you have found your best null position.
It may be necessary to turn the null control knob a little to find this location.
You can turn the knob anywhere between the 40% null to 60% null if it will help to find the lowest meter reading.
When you cannot find a lower meter reading from moving the RX coil and from turning the null control knob between 40% nd 60%, this means you have found the best null position for the RX null.
You can tighten the RX coil in this position so it will not move from the null position that you found.

Note:
This lowest meter reading position should be found when the electronic null control is in the center position between 40% and 60%.
If your null control knob must be set less than 40% or more than 60% to find the lowest meter reading, then you will need to move the coil farther.
Maybe you will need to make the slots longer so the RX coil will move farther.

Final check to see if you are done with the null adjustment:
When you are finished with the null adjustment, you should have found a location for the RX coil that gives the lowest meter reading when the Null control knob is in the center.
Any movement of the RX coil will cause the meter reading to increase.
Also, any adjustment of the null control knob will cause the meter reading to increase.
Look to see the RX coil is not pushed to the end of the slotted hole -- it can be moved farther in either direction, but if you move it up or down, the meter reading will increase.
Look to see the null control knob is set near the center (between 40% and 60%). When you turn it to the right or left, the meter reading will increase.
If all of these checks are correct, then you are finished with the null adjustment.
When you complete this null adjustment, you are ready to make the pinpoint test.

Extra tips for a good null:
These tips should be used in the early construction stages of the project...
Keep all the metal parts of your PD separated from the coils as far as possible.
The meter and battery and controls should be at the back, away from the coils.
The only parts that should be close to the coils is the transmitter and receiver part of the circuits.
If you use a 2-board design, you can put PCB-1 inside the coil housing or inside the PD box very close to the coils.
You want to keep the wires that connect from the coils to this board as short as possible so they do not pick up or send out unwanted electronic noise.
If you are building with a single board design, then keep the parts of the circuit for the TX and RX coil at one end of the board, near the coils.
And keep the power circuits for the speaker and meter at the other end of the board away from the coils.

Final pinpointing check:
The final check for the PD after you have a good null is the pinpointing check.
Use the diagram below to check that you have the correct meter readings when you pass the search coil over a USA dime at different parts of the coil.

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17805&stc=1&d=1326425017

Where did this project come from?

This circuit was designed by some top electronic engineers in the USA many years ago, but it was forgotten.
What most people do not understand is this locator does not use integrated circuits which filter out the tiny signals that modern designs cannot find.
But LRL experimenters know better.
They know how important these tiny signals are for locating treasure.
They know these signals are lost when they use modern components.
This is why so many LRL experimenters look for this circuit.
I have seen many different versions of this circuit with different transistors and components ... and they do not work for most people who build it.
Maybe this is because they do not use the correct methods for building their PD.
Or... maybe it is because they do not have the correct schematic version.
I hear rumors that the pistol has a difficult time to work when the parts are changed for modern parts.

But I have the original circuit design using the original transistors and all the original components.
Some years ago I read that one of the Geotech engineers has this original locator design made into the pistol project.
He did not build a copy using modern parts.
He has the original locator from 30 years ago which he modified into a PD without changing any components.
I remember when the Geotech engineer re-arranged this same exact circuit into a pistol, he was amazed at the signals he was detecting that he was never able to find with his other locators.
I remember these reported these detection distances in the air:
45 cm = coke can
14 cm = aluminium sheet 14cm x 9cm
1.2 m = other large metal objects
I remember he said he could point this locator in many directions and hear signals arrive which his other detectors did not detect.
But he did not report if he ever followed to find the exact source of the signals.
In fact, shortly after he showed his PD, he stopped making reports about it.
This is why I don't know the true distance that this locator can work.
I also remember he said there is no Faraday shield of any kind used on the coils in this locator.
I think this is important, because a Faraday shield can block much of the electric field component of incoming signals.
He tried every way he could think of to understand exactly what these signals were.
But in the end he was satisfied to know that he was detecting mysterious signals that he could not detect with his other metal locating equipment.
He never will tell how much treasure he found.
I am thinking he found many ancient hammered coins, but I do not think he will tell if he found some Celtic gold treasures.
I don't know for certain because he did not say what he recovered or not recovered.

I think back about how he said he received some very strange signals that he never received from any of his metal detectors... and then he became silent.
We never again heard about any more treasures he found...
I can only guess he spends his spare time treasure hunting using his original version PD locator.
Maybe he wants to keep the original design as a secret so only he can use it.
But I tell all details...!! http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/good.gif

You can look above at the complete schematic.
Nothing is missing. It shows all the original parts that you will see if you open the locator and look on the circuit boards.
There are very few of these original locators left in the world.
People buy them as soon as they are listed for sale, so you will not be able to find one.
But you can build a copy from the original parts, because I show everything above.

Note: one transistor is no longer manufactured, so I put the substitute transistors that you can use to get the same results.
Also, you will need to find a mica capacitor. You can find these on ebay.

Good luck with your PD that detects metals :)
J_P

daniel

09-17-2014, 10:13 PM

ooops sorry.

First click on the button with the "chain" after that it will transform to an "arrow". If you click now that arrow you can download the file.

Im not persian either but I've just hover with the mouse over the buttons and you see in the status bar of your browser what the download link is.

WM6

09-17-2014, 10:49 PM

Thanks J_P to collect data of your PD again.

This is most detailed and explained PD LRL project posted on LRL forum ever.

daniel

09-17-2014, 11:02 PM

if you do this pci, check this error
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18985&stc=1&d=1398027662

ok
you should cut
http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18992&stc=1&d=1398104407

Did someone noticed the error on the PCB? Does it have to be cut? Did someone build the device using that PCB?

Thanks

J_Player

09-18-2014, 12:59 AM

Did someone noticed the error on the PCB? Does it have to be cut? Did someone build the device using that PCB?

ThanksHi daniel,
No.... Nobody noticed any error in the PC board...!
ma330 did a perfect job to produce this circuit board. Thank you ma330 http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/good.gif...!
You can send a pm to ma330 to confirm that this PCB is perfect.
The decision to cut the board is an optional choice which is available to anyone who builds this PD.
Read the posts above to learn the details why anyone might want to cut the PCB into two parts.
The circuit board can be cut or not cut, and the results will be the same, as long as the builder observes the precautions that were shown in the posts above...

Your best idea to complete this project is to follow the instructions that are shown in this post: --> http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=150135&postcount=188
Do not use any other information which you do not find in this post.... unless you don't care whether it works or not.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

P.S.
Note to other people who want to post projects in this forum:
Please include complete schematic, and complete list of parts, and complete tuning instructions similar to what you see above.
This method will make it much easier for forum readers to build your project.

reza vir

09-18-2014, 07:38 PM

Healthy links
I sent this file
Yes, thank you dear friend
Regards

J_Player

09-19-2014, 07:24 AM

if you do this pci, check this error

Did someone noticed the error on the PCB? Does it have to be cut? Did someone build the device using that PCB?

Thanks
Hi Daniel and jocelito,
I looked at the PCB design again and you are correct!

Thank you for finding this error. ;)
I made changes to the BMP artwork to correct the error, and I smoothed out some of the rough edges at the same time. See attached correction for the error found on the PCB.

Note: There may be more errors that I did not catch. If you find them, let us know.
I will update the complete project post after everyone has a chance to check if there are more errors to be corrected.

Happy treasure hunting :)
J_P

brs

12-14-2014, 03:12 PM

Hi dani
After adjustment wrong PCB you worked

brs

01-08-2017, 08:45 PM

Hello friends
Is it one work with this schematic Is it possible to reveal the minerals deeply buried one meter flattened

brs

12-09-2017, 08:29 AM

Hi J_Player
mode winding coil TX and ex with clockwise or counterclockwise

brs

12-09-2017, 09:02 AM

Or no difference with or counter clockwise for TX and RX

WM6

12-09-2017, 10:17 AM

No difference.

brs

12-10-2017, 06:04 AM

Thanks wm6

brs

12-14-2017, 09:13 AM

Hi my frendes
The error you need to correct

http://up4gulf.net/direct/xZqVr

brs

12-14-2017, 09:22 AM

My English is bad but I see the transmission circuit error
I want an equivalent equivalent of Transistor 2n3393

brs

12-14-2017, 09:42 AM

http://up4gulf.net/direct/78feK

brs

12-15-2017, 08:44 AM

Hi my friends
Alternative equivalent
2n3393
Is 2n3392 his replacement

dojranski

12-15-2017, 09:49 AM

REPLACE 2N3392..BC168...BC183...BC238...BC548

brs

12-15-2017, 10:18 AM

Thanks dojranski

Dubulumach

04-06-2018, 12:01 PM

Hi kahyal,
I can see you are a believer that a locator that detects metals will work long range when you put it in a pistol.
Maybe this is true and maybe no.
I see many people make pistols that will detect metal, but they have problems for finding long range.

I know of a circuit schematic for a detector of metals that works by transmitting VLF radio signals very far away from the pistol, then uses a receiver coil to listen for some changes in the signal that is being received.
This locator is so sensitive that it must use a nulling adjustment as well as a sensitivity control for finding signals that can originate in very distant locations.
This circuit was designed by some top electronic engineers in the USA many years ago, but it was forgotten.
What most people do not understand is this locator does not use integrated circuits which filter out the tiny signals that modern designs cannot find.
But LRL experimenters know better.
They know how important these tiny signals are for locating treasure.
They know these signals are lost when they use modern components.
This is why so many LRL experimenters look for this circuit.
I have seen many different versions of this circuit with different transistors and components ... and they do not work for most people who build it.
Maybe this is because they do not use the correct methods for building their PD.
Or... maybe it is because they do not have the correct schematic version.
I hear rumors that the pistol has a difficult time to work when the parts are changed for modern parts.

But I have the original circuit design using the original transistors and all the original components.
Some years ago I read that one of the Geotech engineers has this original locator design made into the pistol project.
He did not build a copy using modern parts.
He has the original locator from 30 years ago which he modified into a PD without changing any components.
He never will tell how much treasure he found.
I am thinking he found many ancient hammered coins, but I do not think he will tell if he found some Celtic gold treasures.
I don't know for certain because he did not say what he recovered or not recovered.
But I remember he said he received some very strange signals that he never received from any of his metal detectors.
Then he became silent.
We never again heard about any more treasures he found...
I can only guess he spends his spare time treasure hunting using his original version PD locator.
Maybe he wants to keep the original design as a secret so only he can use it.
But I will tell all details...!! http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/good.gif

You can look below for a complete schematic.
Nothing is missing. It shows all the original parts that you will see if you open the locator and look on the circuit boards.
There are very few of these original locators left in the world.
People buy them as soon as they are listed for sale, so you will not be able to find one.
But you can build a copy from the original parts, because I show everything below.

Note: one transistor is no longer manufactured, so I put the substitute transistors that you can use to get the same results.
Also, you will need to find a mica capacitor. You can find these on ebay.
Good luck with your PD that detectors metals :)
J_P

Hey J_P

Couple a words from my experience. Coils are too big for LRL. You need a new coil design. Optimal diameter ratio for Rx at respect to Tx should be 1/(1 plus SQRT(5))/2) x Tx diameter, To work like LRL you need original Alonso passive receiver schematic and balance whole coil system - which is almost impossible mission. But there are also some impossible T-hunters (Mr.Morgan is one of them) who can help you and disclose their "know how", if they want or in excange for some gold coins. ;)
Also two stage regenerative oscillator should be redesigned becaue with original schemtic there is constant overload of passive receiver circuit. You don't need 200Vpp to bomb the "Halo Cloud". On that way you will only wipe the phenomenon.

ps: There is also an error in your redrawn schematic and that error is at worst possible place. Without correcting this error this detector doesn't work at all. That error totally f.u.c.k.u.p. the biasing point of two most important transistors.

Regards
Dragan
South Serbia
East Balkan (not west like EU politicians lie :nono:)