PD schematic interpretations

[Max]

please write here your interpretations of PD schematic

my interpretation is that is made basically of 3 different circuits:

1. Heathkit GD348 MD with omega+round smaller coil, working as usual old IB VLF MD with unshielded coils and at same expected range of an IB VLF MD with that small coils

2. passive receiver circuit made around a couple of ferrite rods antenna (directive) and tuned in LF band (long waves) maybe around 60Khz, to receive some very strong LF signal like time radio station WWVB of NIST and the like

3. mixer and monostable circuit that mix output of the MD and passive receiver and then feed a 555 that controls buzzer for audible signal and led

I don't see anything else interesting

please provide your interpretation too, expecially Geo

regards
Max

[Aziz]

I suspect, the LRL rats do not want to discuss the technical aspects of it.

They either
want to discuss the discussion, that LRL's are working.
or
to discuss the discussion about so called "theories", which is in my opinion a b$ theory.

EMI noise and other noise sources are the best friends of LRL rats.

Cheers,
Aziz

[Max]

Hi Aziz,
the fact is that the schematic is quite simple so I do not understand what they mean for particular stuff we don't see in it or we miss somehow e.g. the purpose or meaning of such circuits

but lets see what they write (if they will write something...) and take a look at their interpretation of schematic if different from ours

regards
Max

[WM6]

2. passive receiver circuit made around a couple of ferrite rods antenna (directive) and tuned in LF band (long waves) maybe around 60Khz, to receive some very strong LF signal like time radio station WWVB of NIST and the like

regards
Max

From my point of view, they expected to get huge directivity with such construction especially with use of ferrite rods antenna. Huge directivity mean long range detection. Regretfully there are disturbing reality somewhere between.

But let them to talk correct explanations.

[Fred]

I believe someone said that the coils are not absolutely necessary but an improvement, so we could drop all the GD348 and mixer circuit, and it should still "work". That would let us with a simple passive receiver, so this must be the heart of the circuit.
Apparently the idea when tuning it is to cancel any magnetic reaction, so we end up with a receiver that detect only RF levels variations...
mmmh...No wonder it is somewhat erratic and depends on geography ...

[Max]

seems that they (LRL believers and claimers) don't wanna discuss about schematic of PD

I do not understand that, but is not a good sign about they have a better understanding of that schematic at the end of the day...

:rolleyes:

[Max]

I believe someone said that the coils are not absolutely necessary but an improvement, so we could drop all the GD348 and mixer circuit, and it should still "work". That would let us with a simple passive receiver, so this must be the heart of the circuit.
Apparently the idea when tuning it is to cancel any magnetic reaction, so we end up with a receiver that detect only RF levels variations...
mmmh...No wonder it is somewhat erratic and depends on geography ...

? if the GD348 and mixer serves nothing or are not strictly necessary all the interesting part must be at ferrite: a simple passive receiver is the working LRL ???

if so it's not different from the "goldgun" AL718, that's indeed a simple passive receiver! but seems many people , even LRL addicted many times here denied the goldgun works as advertised... so I really don't understand what's so special in that schematic then or what we do not see or understand...

will be nice to hear from the LRL entusiasts about that stuff...

regards
Max

[Geo]

Do you really want to discuss the issue of PD;; How;;
I refuse to go into a debate, where you tolerate a member to cursing others:(; I think that you do not like:(.

Regards:)

[Max]

sure, I wanna discuss schematic here, no jokes...

so Geo, what did you see interesting in it ?

regards
Max

[Fred]

? if the GD348 and mixer serves nothing or are not strictly necessary all the interesting part must be at ferrite: a simple passive receiver is the working LRL ???

I Think Morgan mentioned this before, but not sure 100%...Hope he will comment too.

if so it's not different from the "goldgun" AL718, that's indeed a simple passive receiver!
Max
Exatly what i though.Also same a Esteban´s claims: wideband receiver, etc etc...remember ? :)

[folharin]

my pdk...only part ferrite

[Morgan]

I believe someone said that the coils are not absolutely necessary but an improvement, so we could drop all the GD348 and mixer circuit, and it should still "work". That would let us with a simple passive receiver, so this must be the heart of the circuit.
Apparently the idea when tuning it is to cancel any magnetic reaction, so we end up with a receiver that detect only RF levels variations...
mmmh...No wonder it is somewhat erratic and depends on geography ...

Thats true,the Passive Receiver is the heart of the circuit,and a piece of art...
The EE or entusiast who can find the way to UPGRADE this circuit, have build one powerful Long Range Locator.

[Morgan]

my pdk...only part ferrite

Very nice,and where is the OMEGA coil?

hope it will work...

It looks you get the MAX schematic?

[Morgan]

Thats true,the Passive Receiver is the heart of the circuit,and a piece of art...
The EE or entusiast who can find the way to UPGRADE this circuit, have build one powerful Long Range Locator.

17331

[folharin]

omega coil ... I am still building ...

could anybody help me with the number of turns omega coil?

[detectoman]

may be no morgan no alonso know the true function of pd, due alonso clone pd of others basic projects of usa, for conforming the first pd prototipe, all came for the initial army project sensible circuit whit two ferrites rod esteban show us, of here came pd morgan reloaded major, alonso change from pd to dch´s, after to dchs whit infrared sistem, and the failed mineoro of fresh gold
puede ser ni siquiera morgan ni alonso conocen el verdadero funcionamiento de la pd, debido a que alonso clono su primer prototipo de otros basicos proyectos de usa, para conformar la primer prototipo pd, todo viene del inicial proyecto de la armada con dos ferrites que esteban nos presento, de allo derivo la pd, la cual morgan a perfeccionado aun mas ya que alonso paso de alli a la dchs y de ahi a la dchs con led de infrarojo despues a las fallidas mineoro cajas cuadradas para oro fresco, y que solo funcionan en los patios de esa fabrica

[detectoman]

folharin the pd project isnt easy, the omega calibration coils and ferrite, s are an nigthmares, i called these the tegnic lrl puzzle, morgan abandon the original prototipe alonso recipes, due to these extremely dificultous calibrationsl only circuit 5 be practice for an electronic experimental project of amateurs

[detectoman]

folharin play whit circuit 5, btw in r,s forum, max ivconic, and others ee no was possible build these complete pd

[Geo]

sure, I wanna discuss schematic here, no jokes...

so Geo, what did you see interesting in it ?

regards
Max

Hi Max
Unfortunately I can not participate in debate together with Aziz, and calls us rats. Rather, judge by himself. I am 51 years old and I do not accept insults from any kid like him.

Regards:)

[Zocky-Zocky]

Hi Max
Unfortunately I can not participate in debate together with Aziz, and calls us rats.
Regards:)

At first you Geo!
Dirty words do not lead anywhere!
This is not good for anybody!
Regards!
Zocky-Zocky

[Max]

I Think Morgan mentioned this before, but not sure 100%...Hope he will comment too.

Exatly what i though.Also same a Esteban´s claims: wideband receiver, etc etc...remember ? :)

yes, I remember he told us many times it's wideband receiver in some cases, don't know if PD is one of them anyway cause seems ferrite circuit is tuned to resonate at a specific frequency, though will be anyway somehow "broadband" cause of lack of selectivity (it's not heterodyne receiver or pll stuff... or else, just tuned ferrite coil antenna+capacitor in lc tank so selectivity just depends on Q of the coils...)

I remember another kind of LRL where he uses tape recorder amplifier, and that's a vlf broadband receiver no dubt

regards
Max

[Max]

Thats true,the Passive Receiver is the heart of the circuit,and a piece of art...
The EE or entusiast who can find the way to UPGRADE this circuit, have build one powerful Long Range Locator.

so you state also that the regular MD inside and mixer are not necessary; but if so, like also Fred stated, the PD is similar to the goldgun AL718, a passive receiver for vlf signals, just seems PD operate above 30KHz at around 62KHz (so in the LF band, long waves)

can you confirm that ?

regards
Max

[Max]

Hi Max
Unfortunately I can not participate in debate together with Aziz, and calls us rats. Rather, judge by himself. I am 51 years old and I do not accept insults from any kid like him.

Regards:)

ok , ok
you're 51 old and offended by jokes of Aziz but let this thread free of this stuff... focus on schematic and what's interesting inside, if anything I mean

I think Aziz will not made jokes or call you rats if we'll focus on electronics, frequency, coils and the like... you know, skeptics are triggered to make jokes and eat popcorn by unsupported claims, but if the approach is scientific and technical no need of insults or jokes here, and till now can't you notice it seems a very quite thread for the average of remote sensing section? it's quite and polite!

so, for you the passive receiver of PD is the heart of LRL behaviour ? and if so, do you think is somehow related to the goldgun al718 as principle of operation ?

regards
Max

[Max]

may be no morgan no alonso know the true function of pd, due alonso clone pd of others basic projects of usa, for conforming the first pd prototipe, all came for the initial army project sensible circuit whit two ferrites rod esteban show us, of here came pd morgan reloaded major, alonso change from pd to dch´s, after to dchs whit infrared sistem, and the failed mineoro of fresh gold
puede ser ni siquiera morgan ni alonso conocen el verdadero funcionamiento de la pd, debido a que alonso clono su primer prototipo de otros basicos proyectos de usa, para conformar la primer prototipo pd, todo viene del inicial proyecto de la armada con dos ferrites que esteban nos presento, de allo derivo la pd, la cual morgan a perfeccionado aun mas ya que alonso paso de alli a la dchs y de ahi a la dchs con led de infrarojo despues a las fallidas mineoro cajas cuadradas para oro fresco, y que solo funcionan en los patios de esa fabrica

army project ? I don't remember that...
where is it ?

regards,
Max

[gibon]

Hi Max
Unfortunately I can not participate in debate together with Aziz, and calls us rats. Rather, judge by himself. I am 51 years old and I do not accept insults from any kid like him.

Regards:)


Absolutly right Geo,

No necessary to argue anymore when you are considered like a RAT.

Where are you administrator ? .

The old rats arenot giving any regards.

That's what we call respect.

Gibon

[Fred]

Hi Max
Unfortunately I can not participate in debate together with Aziz, and calls us rats. Rather, judge by himself. I am 51 years old and I do not accept insults from any kid like him.

Regards:)
hi Geo,
You only give the importance you want to this kind of comments.
I hope i will live long enough to be called rat many many time :lol: Anyway rats are super intelligent.
Seriously Geo, i am sure Max will keep this thread clean, any offensive or undesirable post can be reported (the famous red triangle, hihi) and deleted on request.
this is intended to be only technical, and Morgan already answered important questions.

[Aziz]

A lot of LRL believers have lost their credibility. And they have deserved the right asz kick. No matter what you think. There is some point arrived, to stop them.

Eat this:
I do not have any pity with scammers, frauds, liars, b$ & pseudo science spreaders....

Comeon, tell us:
how it works and what are you measuring?
:D
Aziz

[Morgan]

folharin the pd project isnt easy, the omega calibration coils and ferrite, s are an nigthmares, i called these the tegnic lrl puzzle, morgan abandon the original prototipe alonso recipes, due to these extremely dificultous calibrationsl only circuit 5 be practice for an electronic experimental project of amateurs

thats true,is a nightmare to make a sucessfull tuning Omega+Ferrite,but is possible with a lot of practice.

[Morgan]

so you state also that the regular MD inside and mixer are not necessary; but if so, like also Fred stated, the PD is similar to the goldgun AL718, a passive receiver for vlf signals, just seems PD operate above 30KHz at around 62KHz (so in the LF band, long waves)

can you confirm that ?

regards
Max

for the LRL work, you only need Coil or Ferrite,Passive Receiver circuit+Alarm circuit+Voltage Regulator=PDK project ,this is the easy way to build one LRL

The PD,also work,but is not AUTOMATIC,and is the hard way to build one LRL...

[Max]

A lot of LRL believers have lost their credibility. And they have deserved the right asz kick. No matter what you think. There is some point arrived, to stop them.

Eat this:
I do not have any pity with scammers, frauds, liars, b$ & pseudo science spreaders....

Comeon, tell us:
how it works and what are you measuring?
:D
Aziz

it's intended to be a clean and polite technical thread... lets them say about PD schematic and LRL theories, no jokes please

I think Morgan's answers are an answer about what they measure and how it "works":
they measure incoming rf waves, probably from a distant transmitter e.g. time signal one operating in the LF band

the ferrite we know is directive and ferrite coils have a minimum reception when aligned as in the PD, so they look for minimal coupling with far transmitter I think

till that is simple rf stuff... no big stuff about electronics

how it works ? uhm... maybe it's supposed that the target introduce some magnetic anomaly and let receiver detect alterated signal e.g. amplitude, I'm not sure, but they use AM demodulation and filter, so it's easy think it's an amplitude issue there... not FM stuff or anything else otherwise circuit will be much different; then a beeper signals the "anomaly" if any...

it works ? I don't know, have many dubts about... remainds me much the goldgun al718 , a simple rf receiver for vlf range, with dual ferrite and opposite windings but too many here reported that goldgun doesn't work as LRL... :shrug:

but maybe all is at tuning and choosing the right transmitter, or maybe it doesn't rely in a specific transmitter but on background rf noise in that frequency range... who knows... even the goldgun is somehow "broadband" thing, intentionally not selective receiver...

regards
Max

[homefire]

Again! This is Science were talking about, Not I BELEIVE kinda thing.


Now could you use words like, Theory, Hypothesis, Experiments, Conclusions, Facts?



It is a proven fact that I Walked across the coin and the Black Box signaled.

Proven by this Obscured test.

??????


Something?

Give me Something I can see, Judge and comment on.

Not I KNOW THIS WORKS.

[WM6]

It is all about sensing hidden Scalar Fields:

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/HTMLdosya1/UFOpropsys.htm

[Fred]

It is all about sensing hidden Scalar Fields:

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/HTMLdosya1/UFOpropsys.htm

Cool reading !

[Qiaozhi]

It is all about sensing hidden Scalar Fields:

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/HTMLdosya1/UFOpropsys.htm
This is from the Time Travel Research Center!

[Aziz]

This is from the Time Travel Research Center!

*LOL*
Not serious. B$ science. Beam me up Scotty! :lol:
Aziz

------------------X LRL believer: cut this here X-----------------
Remember:
We are obviously dealing with VLF and LF frequencies, which have a long RF wave lengths. And the mentioned LRL detectors being used in the passive mode (only receiving and amplifying).

Fact:
Small objects are invisible to the long RF waves. I refer to small objects like: coins, gold rings, etc.

Again:
WTF, what are you guys measuring?
(I know it of course.)
:D
Aziz
------------------X LRL believer: cut this here X-----------------

[Geo]

*LOL*
Not serious. B$ science. Beam me up Scotty! :lol:
Aziz


WTF, what are you guys measuring?
(I know it of course.)
:D
Aziz


Of course you know everything:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::wall:wall:wall

[Aziz]

Of course you know everything:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::wall:wall:wall

In contrast to you Geo, I have two years of real experience of antenna building, modelling and design. And I know, what I'm talking about.

Do you know too?
Comeon tell us, what are you measuring?
:D
Aziz

[Rubin]

......
Comeon tell us, what are you measuring?
:D
Aziz
Hello for all .This is my first post here as Rubin
Aziz a question for you
Hypothesis. If you know "what are you measuring" after two-ten-twenty years study, can you publish this?
I think your answer is a No!!!
For example i know well "what measuring", but i am not crazy, publish here the real physics about this.
You are a noname man , i am a noname man too, why must be trust you or other member and publish real infos here?
For glory? For a bravo? From what?
Sorry my friend, but answers for your questions, i think you must be find alone. I think with "open mind" ..maybe you can find solutions.
This is not a personal attack for you, but the true. Here we have hobbist users, commercials users etc. Real infos i think we can not publish here
regards

[Aziz]

Hello for all .This is my first post here as Rubin
Aziz a question for you
Hypothesis. If you know "what are you measuring" after two-ten-twenty years study, can you publish this?
I think your answer is a No!!!
For example i know well "what measuring", but i am not crazy, publish here the real physics about this.
You are a noname man , i am a noname man too, why must be trust you or other member and publish real infos here?
For glory? For a bravo? From what?
Sorry my friend, but answers for your questions, i think you must be find alone. I think with "open mind" ..maybe you can find solutions.
This is not a personal attack for you, but the true. Here we have hobbist users, commercials users etc. Real infos i think we can not publish here
regards

Don't tell me B$ please. We aren't playing the B$ bingo game here.

But tell me the real truth and provable facts.
What are you measuring?
:D
Cheers,
Aziz

[Rubin]

Don't tell me B$ please. We aren't playing the B$ bingo game here.

But tell me the real truth and provable facts.
What are you measuring?
:D
Cheers,
Aziz
This is my second post as rubin
I write my post with logic
I you have "interest" for find measuring, do you believe i can send you?
Why must be send to you this infos?
You are my friend? For a " ....thank you" or for a "....yes rubin you are correct"
Do you know my real name or i know your real face?
Please send me a logic meaning, why i must publish for all world this infos
Please don't you write here ".... for science", because, this is a joke... with members here hunting information for commercial use.
I repeat again, you must try alone for true, with "open mind" . Sometimes solution is.. very near my friend, but you need make experiments, see with your eyes real results.
Believe me

[Fred]

Don't tell me B$ please. We aren't playing the B$ bingo game here.

But tell me the real truth and provable facts.
What are you measuring?
:D
Cheers,
Aziz
Aziz,
Actually this thread is for people that have something to say, and we are listening.
Be able to listen in silence is a sign of wisdom, and key to become smarter.

You are sceptic, fine, but let people speak.Morgan or Geo are not scammers, they are convinced their LRL works even if they don´t understand on what principles, so lets hear what they have to say and try to sort this out.

[Aziz]

This is my second post as rubin
I write my post with logic
I you have "interest" for find measuring, do you believe i can send you?
Why must be send to you this infos?
You are my friend? For a " ....thank you" or for a "....yes rubin you are correct"
Do you know my real name or i know your real face?
Please send me a logic meaning, why i must publish for all world this infos
Please don't you write here ".... for science", because, this is a joke... with members here hunting information for commercial use.
I repeat again, you must try alone for true, with "open mind" . Sometimes solution is.. very near my friend, but you need make experiments, see with your eyes real results.
Believe me

"Believe me"
Sorry, but I'm not a believer. You can convince me with scientific reproducable facts, which must be provable by independent experiments.

Stop talking B$! Contribute something valuable to the thread please.
What are the LRL guys measuring?
(simple question)
:D
Cheers,
Aziz

[Aziz]

Aziz,
Actually this thread is for people that have something to say, and we are listening.
Be able to listen in silence is a sign of wisdom, and key to become smarter.

You are sceptic, fine, but let people speak.Morgan or Geo are not scammers, they are convinced their LRL works even if they don´t understand on what principles, so lets hear what they have to say and try to sort this out.

Ok,

I'm waiting for their explanation or interpretation.
:D
Cheers,
Aziz

[Max]

*LOL*
Not serious. B$ science. Beam me up Scotty! :lol:
Aziz

------------------X LRL believer: cut this here X-----------------
Remember:
We are obviously dealing with VLF and LF frequencies, which have a long RF wave lengths. And the mentioned LRL detectors being used in the passive mode (only receiving and amplifying).

Fact:
Small objects are invisible to the long RF waves. I refer to small objects like: coins, gold rings, etc.

Again:
WTF, what are you guys measuring?
(I know it of course.)
:D
Aziz
------------------X LRL believer: cut this here X-----------------

Hi,
just if you think about e.g. reflection of waves the small stuff is "invisible" to large wavelength...

and all we know, an easy example all we know is about VLF MDs that works at 5-15KHz

ok , let's say that we have an MD such kind working at 5KHz --> wavelength will be around 60Km , huge number...

so we cannot detect a coin of 2cm diameter ? it's just 0.00002 kilomemeters and 3.333*10^-7 wavelengths diameter, but we detect it in the range of MD quite easy... cause we measure eddy currents effects in it, not reflection
;)

so let them explain what they measure... if they know
:rolleyes:

[Doug]

Ok,

I'm waiting for their explanation or interpretation.
:D
Cheers,
Aziz


That is right AZIZ, just like another major PI detector company that you & me hate. They need to prove to us that their ideas are better than us geniuses. And no, I am not that Doug, but this Doug!

[Rubin]

Contribute something valuable to the thread please.

Contribute from what?
For thread?
For you?
For sceptics men?
orrrr for copy men
I repeat again, i want from you a logic, why my person or Esteban,Morgan,Geo etc etc must be publish here real infos.
Why you don't put here free, your personal software or personal hex files or your secret schematics?
I think your personal projects with strong job, you cannot put free here, because you know after few days, your "strong job" is... commercial use from others
For example
I am sceptic man... is software for coils and electromagnetic fields design by Aziz or not?
If yes, please publish here free. For me.... you have a "bravo" and a big "beleive you"
This is only a example

regards

[Geo]

In contrast to you Geo, I have two years of real experience of antenna building, modelling and design. And I know, what I'm talking about.

Do you know too?
Comeon tell us, what are you measuring?

Aziz


Before me, you must answer to J_P!!!!! for "If VLF is not capable of detecting as I speculate, then what is causing Morgan's VLF detector to beep 2 meters distance from the buried gold medal which has been buried a long time in his test garden? "

:D

[Geo]

Aziz,
Actually this thread is for people that have something to say, and we are listening.
Be able to listen in silence is a sign of wisdom, and key to become smarter.

You are sceptic, fine, but let people speak.Morgan or Geo are not scammers, they are convinced their LRL works even if they don´t understand on what principles, so lets hear what they have to say and try to sort this out.

Hi Fred.
Aziz thinks that he knows everything so all who believe at different things are liars :lol::lol:.

Anyway he is child yet.....

Regards:)

[WM6]

so we cannot detect a coin of 2cm diameter ? it's just 0.00002 kilomemeters and 3.333*10^-7 wavelengths diameter, but we detect it in the range of MD quite easy... cause we measure eddy currents effects in it, not reflection
;)



Hi Max and all

look at this (factory) device and read how it works.

It works in different ways and can detect metallic parts a way smaller than 1 wavelength of frequency (33kHz) used. And It is not about eddy current method.

There are other other possibilities to detect something metallic underground not only by well proven eddy current method. Metallic parts can reflect all wavelength not only those in his own size, but very long wavelength are very dispersive and hard to detectable as echo from small parts. There are other possibilities too, all metallic parts has his own resonance (on full or part of wavelength), etc.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118325&postcount=7

[Geo]

It is better to close this thread. I do not think nobody would answer the time of they insult him:(.
It is obvious that there is no the word "polite" in the country of Aziz:barf:

[WM6]

That is right AZIZ, just like another major PI detector company that you & me hate. They need to prove to us that their ideas are better than us geniuses. And no, I am not that Doug, but this Doug!

You are not "that Doug", nor "this Doug". Play fair game.

[WM6]

It is better to close this thread. I do not think nobody would answer the time of they insult him:(.
It is obvious that there is no the word "polite" in the country of Aziz:barf:

Hi Geo, there is no reason to take Aziz or any other posts as excuse to not to participate in LRL debate. We need you here.

[Fred]

Hi Fred.
Aziz thinks that he knows everything so all who believe at different things are liars :lol::lol:.

Anyway he is child yet.....

Regards:)

Well i think it´s time to go ahead and be positive Geo, you asked for this thread to be open , now asking to close it ...
Just let move on... Dont be childish...:)

[humhum]

Think about how you operate IR remote control, it sends a wave around 900nm or very very short wave (Freq. maybe Thz) like gold ions light( NMR 1754MHz) send with telluric waves to coil receiver, where they are directed to Long Wave or Passive Receiver it give sound, although that wave land for transmitting and receiving are different .

[Max]

Think about how you operate IR remote control, it sends a wave around 900nm or very very short wave (Freq. maybe Thz) like gold ions light( NMR 1754MHz) send with telluric waves to coil receiver, where they are directed to Long Wave or Passive Receiver it give sound, although that wave land for transmitting and receiving are different .

lets focus just on PD schematic here, there aren't IR leds inside and we must focus just on ferrite receiver part, cause as stated by Morgan and Esteban that's the hearth of PD thing that makes it an LRL

so what about that ferrite circuit ? how it's supposed to work ? how people here who made it and claim it works as LRL e.g. tuned ? which frequency ? why ?

etc

these are the technical issues here, if wanna discuss IR based LRL open another thread

regards
Max

[Aziz]

Think about how you operate IR remote control, it sends a wave around 900nm or very very short wave (Freq. maybe Thz) like gold ions light( NMR 1754MHz) send with telluric waves to coil receiver, where they are directed to Long Wave or Passive Receiver it give sound, although that wave land for transmitting and receiving are different .

You better don't contribute! We don't need hung science here.
Cheers,
Aziz

[Aziz]

That is right AZIZ, just like another major PI detector company that you & me hate. They need to prove to us that their ideas are better than us geniuses. And no, I am not that Doug, but this Doug!

Who has said you, that I'm hating a major PI detector company?
You know, I'm hating the UD!
:D
Cheers,
Aziz

[Aziz]

Ok guys,

I love you all. Let's be polite now.

Let assume, I'm a child and want to know, how the f%$kin LRL device works.
So, how it is working and what are you measuring?

Cheers,
:)
Aziz

[Aziz]

It is better to close this thread. I do not think nobody would answer the time of they insult him:(.
It is obvious that there is no the word "polite" in the country of Aziz:barf:
I know, you (and Morgan) don't like the real truth and obviously me.
Anyway. I can live with it.

Perhaps, you can explain to the others.
They are keen to know, how the LRL device works and what you are measuring.
:D
Cheers,
Aziz

[Morgan]

Well i think it´s time to go ahead and be positive Geo, you asked for this thread to be open , now asking to close it ...
Just let move on... Dont be childish...:)

Here some clues about the so caled PHENOMENON.~

Information from the Damasio´s book

I know you can read portuguese,maybe you understand. Basicaly all the metals create underground some kind of ENERGY that can be MEASURED and LOCATED with LRL´s.
Noble metals create more energy. Why ??? I´m learning,i´m not LRL teacher.
The book teach how to make experiments with buried metals.

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[Morgan]

Well i think it´s time to go ahead and be positive Geo, you asked for this thread to be open , now asking to close it ...
Just let move on... Dont be childish...:)

What we are MEASURING ENRGY,ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS,IONS ???

UNDERGROUND METALS :

IRON - create rusty and decomposed after many years.Not located by LRL

Copper or Bronze - well conductive but uderground create verdigris(patina) this isolate the metal to transmit contact to the ground and produce the energy field. Sometimes can be located by LRL

Aluminium - dificult to corrode even if buried underground. Most of the times can be located with LRL

Gold,silver - Noble metals can stay in very good condition buried underground even 100´s of years. Allways located with LRL.

My theory,i think Franco Italy is right ,the underground Battery is what we are MEASURING...

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[Morgan]

Well i think it´s time to go ahead and be positive Geo, you asked for this thread to be open , now asking to close it ...
Just let move on... Dont be childish...:)

Here more

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[Max]

earth battery is an interesting theory, at least it's a scientific fact that these currents develop in earth

but I do not understand why gold must be buried for 50+ years in that case, if the battery works it works from start and no need of long time buried stuff in that case

I could understand that for other metals like copper or silver there's a need of time to develop compounds etc but with gold it isn't cause of chemical strong inertia of gold, so it's not clear for gold

anyway I don't understand when Damasio mix "electric field" with "magnetic field" --> static electric field does not induce magnetic field, but just moving carriers (electrons or ions) can create magnetic field; maybe he meant "electric potential difference" (voltage) that induce currents in a circuit (e.g. underground earth currents) and thus a magnetic field, that way make sense

I have to say that rf waves propagation in matter could have changes due to static of slowly variable magnetic fields, thus if field is strong enough (earth currents strong enough) that could explain also an electromagnetic anomaly in proximity of the buried target, cause we have a passive lf receiver in PD, and can sense JUST rf waves in lf range not static fields

regards
Max

[epitopios]

just another opinion !!!
I read this post for enough time now and I read about :
Gold frequency
NMR
VLF - LF Frequencies
ferrows and non-ferrows
ion detector
electrostatic detector
and of course the phenomenon
and thousands more ....!!!
until now i hear nothing about Electron plasma density to check out
someone will give an answer to this conundrum one ??
friendly , epitopios
and... regards

[Fred]

Thanks Morgan !
That is really interesting, at least we can see on what their design was based on- even if there are strange affirmations, like magnetism around non-magnetic metals, but i need to read it more carefully.
I can try to translate at least part of it over the week-end if it seems useful.
At least you really contributed to understand what it is all about.
Cheers !

Fred.

[J_Player]

Thanks Morgan !
That is really interesting, at least we can see on what their design was based on- even if there are strange affirmations, like magnetism around non-magnetic metals, but i need to read it more carefully.
I can try to translate at least part of it over the week-end if it seems useful.
At least you really contributed to understand what it is all about.
Cheers !

Fred.Thank you Fred,
I see a couple of fatal errors in his explanations. But I will wait for your translation so I can be sure I am reading this correctly. From what I can see so far, it appears he tried to formulate a theory to explain how buried metal could send a signal that is detectable at a distance. Maybe his theory made sense to him, but it looks like I am reading some elements of this theory which violate well-known basic principles of physics.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Thank you Fred,
I see a couple of fatal errors in his explanations. But I will wait for your translation so I can be sure I am reading this correctly. From what I can see so far, it appears he tried to formulate a theory to explain how buried metal could send a signal that is detectable at a distance. Maybe his theory made sense to him, but it looks like I am reading some elements of this theory which violate well-known basic principles of physics.


Best wishes,
J_P

I think Hung have the same book in english...

Maybe he want to make a favor to us? He can put page pictures here.

[J_Player]

I think Hung have the same book in english...

Maybe he want to make a favor to us? He can put page pictures here.Mineoro literature is known to have grammar errors in Portuguese as well as in the translations they make to English.
Maybe it is good to have an engineer who speaks native Portuguese to check any translations to be the correct meanings.


Thank you Morgan,
J_P

[Max]

Mineoro literature is known to have grammar errors in Portuguese as well as in the translations they make to English.
Maybe it is good to have an engineer who speaks native Portuguese to check any translations to be the correct meanings.


Thank you Morgan,
J_P

I can read it, though not in every detail and I found that some details are wrong like in the case of the electric field that generates a magnetic field, but I think it's due to the lack of terminology and misuse of it than a mistake : as explained I think that he wanna say "electric potential" (that's always a relative thing...) but he used "electric field"

the two concepts are really different in physics but in common terminology could happen that there's a misuse of one definition instead using the other one... also we don't know if the book was written by Damasio himself or by someone else using directives of Damasio, and we all know that when using e.g. "writers" to write technical reports or manuals the mistakes and misuse of terms could be heavy and frequent also

it's the price so often people pay for readability of a paper/article: to keep stuff simple and well understandable by common people it's frequent that many details are avoided and explaination will depicts a situation that's slightly different from reality

Anyway, it's clear the "phenomenon" described has both electric and magnetic effects, and so different detection strategies are possible, e.g. just electrical (like zahori) , just magnetical so thing that reminds me the "compass" mechanical device Esteban once wrote about, mixed so electromagnetic stuff e.g. RF or IR ... all that match Esteban's posts about LRLs: he always repeated many times that there are many different ways to catch this "phenomenon"

so I think Mineoro paper/manual matches totally the Esteban's descriptions of these devices and that these "errors" are maybe just a way to avoid too complicate arguments cause the stuff is intended for potential or already customers...

anyway I found that earth batteries concepts could have implications in this field and are real and measurable at least, but I don't know if detectable or not by PD
:rolleyes:

[Max]

What we are MEASURING ENRGY,ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS,IONS ???

UNDERGROUND METALS :

IRON - create rusty and decomposed after many years.Not located by LRL

Copper or Bronze - well conductive but uderground create verdigris(patina) this isolate the metal to transmit contact to the ground and produce the energy field. Sometimes can be located by LRL

Aluminium - dificult to corrode even if buried underground. Most of the times can be located with LRL

Gold,silver - Noble metals can stay in very good condition buried underground even 100´s of years. Allways located with LRL.

My theory,i think Franco Italy is right ,the underground Battery is what we are MEASURING...

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gold can stay very well for long long time BUT silver can develop thick patina and have big corrosion depending on soil, it usually appears dark like coal in mineralized and humus rich soil... in that cases the patina could be thick even 1/3 of a thick coin, bad story

in other cases , other kind of soil, can develop dark gray patina, not that thick and easy to remove with vaseline or heavy mineral oil or with other means

I saw one time 200 silver coins recovered from under the seashore and located with a pulse induction MD... bad stuff, all full of heavy and thick black patina, mostly corroded and you would not say these were coins... but these were coins, though very degradated ones

the silver patina is a good insulator so that not match gold behaviour that's very different, always clean, no rust or anything visible in even long time buried pieces apart, in some rare cases, redness at surface due to some reaction in mineral/volcanic soil BUT always very conductive even at surface

regards
Max

[J_Player]

...the two concepts are really different in physics but in common terminology could happen that there's a misuse of one definition instead using the other one... also we don't know if the book was written by Damasio himself or by someone else using directives of Damasio, and we all know that when using e.g. "writers" to write technical reports or manuals the mistakes and misuse of terms could be heavy and frequent also

it's the price so often people pay for readability of a paper/article: to keep stuff simple and well understandable by common people it's frequent that many details are avoided and explaination will depicts a situation that's slightly different from reality

so I think Mineoro paper/manual matches totally the Esteban's descriptions of these devices and that these "errors" are maybe just a way to avoid too complicate arguments cause the stuff is intended for potential or already customers...

:rolleyes:Hi Max,
I see examples of printing incorrect information in text books to keep things simple and easy to understand.
You don't learn the real working of some technical things until you study advanced research.
Only reason - to keep things simple for classes that don't want to be confused with difficult explanations.

I have seen simplification like this in some of the Mineoro literature.
But I also see some plain grammar errors in the Mineoro Portuguese website.
People who speak Portuguese say it should be corrected to use more proper words and syntax.
Then when these pages are translated to English, it is easy to translate a slightly changed meaning, which makes a big difference when you want to know if he is talking about static fields or dynamic fields.

More important than grammar and intentional simplifications, I have read some things published by Mineoro which are plain wrong, and can be proved to be wrong...
ie: gold ions rising into the air from the ground is not true.
This is not an observation Damasio and Alonso made.
I checked with Esteban and he told me how they proved ions rise into the air.
He said they took their detector and found some beeping from a long time buried gold jewelry.
Then they surveyed around everywhere near the location from every angle and they found it makes stronger beeps at north and weaker beeps at east-west.
So they draw the ellipse picture.
Then they put a chair next to the location and stand above with the locator to see when beeping stops. They measure 7.2 feet.

What they observe is detection distance from different angles.
Same as if you test with PI detector to see what directions you can find different distances.
They did not observe ions, only detection distances.
Damasio substituted his observation of detection distances for facts of ions rising into air.
True fact is he observed beeping, in the air, not ions in the air.
But they publish "FACTS" that gold ions rise into the air 7.2 feet and move to the north. :nono:

Now, we wonder how many other "FACTS" of science Damasio and Alonso learned using this scientific method to mix their conclusions as if they are the same as things they observed?
This is NOT a scientific method.
It is a method to manufacture pseudoscience.
I see often Esteban make this same mistake for many "FACTS" which he post in the forum -- things like acoustic vibrations of buried gold, IR detection principles, etc.
When I ask him how he knows he made the correct conclusion, he said he assumes he is correct.
But I see he never made any tests to check if he made correct conclusions or not.
He simply thinks his locator works so this proves all Damasio and Alonso theories are correct.
Have you considered that Damasio and Alonso don't know what they are detecting?
Maybe they made a load of pseudoscience to describe their beeping because they do not have enough scientific education to discover the real principle that caused the beeping?
This is what I believe.

This is why I think it is a good Idea for a real engineer who speaks native Portuguese to translate what Damasio published so we can decide for ourselves if he was simply trying to keep things simple, or if he is publishing pseudoscience of false conclusions he mixed in with some well-known principles of physics. :remember


Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

First part of translation: i tried to be fairly literal, not to distort too much the original meaning.Anyone,welcome to correct it into good English :) :

************************************************** *******************

Experiments with gold and silver

To experiment with gold and silver, you will need smooth plates of mentioned sizes.When the target under test will be in air, or recently buried, it is the surface, the size sof the object that matters.In other words, the detector sees the plate as a reflecting mirror.
However when buried for more than 50 years, the instrument, by its detecting properties, sees not only the target, but mainly the electromagnetic field that is very often bigger than the target.
Growing up : for the detector, it is as if the target, with the electromagnetic field, had grown up, had been augmented.See the related experiments, real sizes of objects and how the instrument has SEEN them: way larger.

Gold, silver, copper, aluminium, regular iron:
Is there any difference between those metals ?
The behaviour of those metals in air or recently burried is the same.You will see no difference, their electromagnetic field is identical.
So in practice, what difference exists?
I mineralogy, in the study o metals, the representatives is copper, and noble metals gold and silver. All of them have metallic connexion, made by the centre of their atoms, that are linked between them by a kind of atomic cloud, in which the electrons can travel freely.
Any metal buried and submitted during many years (more than 50) to the action of moisture, earth magnetism , telluric current and radiations, will develop electrical or magnetic properties, that will differentiate it from the surrounding material, in such a way that either magnetic, diamagnetic or paramagnetic substances creates electrical fields.
The more ferrous metals will progressively decompose into the ground, and will not create great magnetic nor electromagnetic fields..Some iron items, buried 50 years ago are gone into dust. Recently archaeological researches made in France, in cities that disappeared 550 or 770 years ago, prove this affirmation.
Now the gold, silver and copper, being inalterable, creates an intense electromagnetic field allowing an easy detection.
Obs: Copper, for its molecular and atomic decay, is in a slightly inferior level of gold and silver

************************************************** ****************

[Fred]

************************************************** ******************
Underground phenomenon:
The Earth is a great magnet.If we break a magnet into small pieces, instead on one big magnet we will get several small magnets.
The smaller strength of those small magnets will be in the same magnitude of their number in relation to the big magnet.
When an object is placed into the ground, buried , an electrical field build up around it which strength will be proportional the the number of years it ha been buried..
The Mineoro being an electric filed detector,it will easily locate those fields, those being originated by ground or man made

A metal recently buried will have no electric field.The detector will only detect the object.
However when this object will have been buried for many years, it will have created around it a strong electrical field that will be detected.
Thanks to this physical phenomenon it is possible to detect the presence of objects at a distance that varies from 140 meters in front, to 140 meters on each side of the detector, depending of the acquired detector.
Obs: the long range detection is only possible for objects buried for more than 50 years, and if they are made of gold, silver and copper.

(....)
For immediate testing, plates or boxes of copper,(flander?), zinc or black plate in the sizes of 30X30, 40X40, 50X50 cm.They must be smooth surface , in one piece and buried in horizontal position.
Many researchers , forgetting the range of their detector, ask too much form it and make the mistake of burry small items, that beside of not having smooth surfaces, have no

************************************************** ***************
Can´t see anything after page 3 ?

[Morgan]

************************************************** ******************
Underground phenomenon:
The Earth is a great magnet.If we break a magnet into small pieces, instead on one big magnet we will get several small magnets.
The smaller strength of those small magnets will be in the same magnitude of their number in relation to the big magnet.
When an object is placed into the ground, buried , an electrical field build up around it which strength will be proportional the the number of years it ha been buried..
The Mineoro being an electric filed detector,it will easily locate those fields, those being originated by ground or man made

A metal recently buried will have no electric field.The detector will only detect the object.
However when this object will have been buried for many years, it will have created around it a strong electrical field that will be detected.
Thanks to this physical phenomenon it is possible to detect the presence of objects at a distance that varies from 140 meters in front, to 140 meters on each side of the detector, depending of the acquired detector.
Obs: the long range detection is only possible for objects buried for more than 50 years, and if they are made of gold, silver and copper.

(....)
For immediate testing, plates or boxes of copper,(flander?), zinc or black plate in the sizes of 30X30, 40X40, 50X50 cm.They must be smooth surface , in one piece and buried in horizontal position.
Many researchers , forgetting the range of their detector, ask too much form it and make the mistake of burry small items, that beside of not having smooth surfaces, have no

************************************************** ***************
Can´t see anything after page 3 ?

i will make a scan of all pages and put here.

[J_Player]

i will make a scan of all pages and put here.Hi Morgan,
A zip file with all pages will be good. Then we can download the zip and read the pages, so not many pages of images in the thread.

Thank you for helping to show the pages of the Damasio book.
J_P

[Aziz]

Hi LRL fans,

still waiting for explanations:
How does your LRL work?
What are you measuring?

:D
Cheers,
Aziz

PS: Morgan stick:, forget this minero B$ science.

[Prince13]

hello all friends
i want to build PD but i Do not know.... Please Help Me Tanks. :)
http://www.8pic.ir/images/zyuchgymgh4tcy8hi22.jpghttp://www.8pic.ir/images/hkj32f40zbzofvqws1t0.jpg

[Geo]

I think that nobody knows exactly the data of L7 and L8.
About Tx and Rx use wire 0.30mm. On schematic writes the number of turns. Maybe is a good idea to wait so to see what Carl and Qiaozhi write at their book about this PD.

[Prince13]

tank you Geo for answer.
I'm waiting.
:):):):):)

[Morgan]

tank you Geo for answer.
I'm waiting.
:):):):):)

I still advice that PD is a complex project with sucessfull working LRL PD of only 10% of people who finish this project...

[Qiaozhi]

I think that nobody knows exactly the data of L7 and L8.
About Tx and Rx use wire 0.30mm. On schematic writes the number of turns. Maybe is a good idea to wait so to see what Carl and Qiaozhi write at their book about this PD.
All book orders fulfilled from the first batch have been posted. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/smilies/dance.gif
Now waiting for the next shipment to arrive.

Geo - I think you'll find Chapter 14 very interesting. ;)

[Sneshko]

i will make a scan of all pages and put here.

Dear Morgan!
I'm still anxiously waiting for you to fill your promise.
When can we expect to scan the entire book and it is set to download as you promised?
Thanks in advance!
Regards!
Sneshko

[Qiaozhi]

Dear Morgan!
I'm still anxiously waiting for you to fill your promise.
When can we expect to scan the entire book and it is set to download as you promised?
Thanks in advance!
Regards!
Sneshko
Looking back through this thread, I see that you are referring to Damasio's book.
You had me confused there for a moment. :???:

[Sneshko]

Dear Qiaozhi!
I'm sorry that I confused you!
I asked Morgan to fulfill his promise if he wants to and can scan the book "Os Detectores eletronicos de metias" and put it on the forum for the free download.
This is the image below:

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/8812/scan0011a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/scan0011a.jpg/)

Regards!
Sneshko

[Morgan]

Dear Qiaozhi!
I'm sorry that I confused you!
I asked Morgan to fulfill his promise if he wants to and can scan the book "Os Detectores eletronicos de metias" and put it on the forum for the free download.
This is the image below:

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/8812/scan0011a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/scan0011a.jpg/)

Regards!
Sneshko


I have it somewere,i will post here as soon as possible

[Sneshko]

Dear Morgan!
Thank you very much!
Best regards!
Sneshko

[brasilpb]

Put the same book for people studying will be of great value.

[Morgan]

Put the same book for people studying will be of great value.

If you want the book i know Qiaohzi already put here somewere,i have it in high resolution format,each page 10Mb,and there is a lot of page...
If you need the book i can send to your email.

[Geo]

If you want the book i know Qiaohzi already put here somewere,i have it in high resolution format,each page 10Mb,and there is a lot of page...
If you need the book i can send to your email.

Hi Morgan
Can you post it to me???

Regards

[brasilpb]

I am very happy If you can send me the book, . My email: gilvantexas@r7.com

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan
Can you post it to me???

Regards

I hope to reduce the size of the book and post here very soon,for everybody,the book is writen in portuguese language only.

[Geo]

I hope to reduce the size of the book and post here very soon,for everybody,the book is writen in portuguese language only.

Thank you Morgan, i received it :):)

[Qiaozhi]

I hope to reduce the size of the book and post here very soon,for everybody,the book is writen in portuguese language only.
The book is copyrighted by Mineoro, so you will not be allowed to post it here.

Quoting from the forum rules:


Don't post copyrighted material.

[brasilpb]

Thanks friend, I also received.

[Geo]

Hi Morgan.
I think that there are some pages yet...

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi Morgan.
I think that there are some pages yet...

RegardsSome things are secret...

I dont believe that any person here is so crazy to give golden information to others
... I dont believe if you in my position will share with others what you discover...


It is best to be happy for the parts which you have received, and not ask for secret parts.


Best Wishes, :)
J_P

[fakhr]

Hello dear members, I am a newbie and ten years of trace metal detector and did not speak English but who am I annoying you and wasting your time, and I'm sorry the percussion alone, I could have a few years of the twenty-Si detector and metal detector machine to do it and if I find a Persian language and he would be willing, I'd love to work with him and happy sheep

[michael]

Hello dear members, I am a newbie and ten years of trace metal detector and did not speak English but who am I annoying you and wasting your time, and I'm sorry the percussion alone, I could have a few years of the twenty-Si detector and metal detector machine to do it and if I find a Persian language and he would be willing, I'd love to work with him and happy sheep
Hi Fakhr, I sent you a PM. read it and reply.
Regards.

[detectoman]

hi cangrejito i like a see this book brasileiro- tortugueise in my bandeja de entrada, mail, bye bye

[liubing]

I did a PD detectors can only detect the magnetic field of the metal is not reflected in the so-called remote detectors, LRL, PD, are deceptive tricks, we do not have to study, I was doing PI detectors, hope interested friends together to exchange

[Constantin]

http://i40.tinypic.com/174k1c.jpg

Perhaps this drawing can help in determining the coils value.
Sorry for my English.

[Geo]

Not so critical.
Make it with a ratio 3...4 : 1.
First determine the L7 so to tune at the desired frequency.