lrl

[mesy64]

hi to all
This circuit was designed by Esteban
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7757&stc=1&d=1234551276
It is instead of ferrite used Tesla Coil?Normal coil
tanks

[WM6]

Hi mesy

If you need better directivity, then use ferrite coil.

Coil have to be tuned (L+C) to your local VLF transmitter frequency. If you tune coil to non-existend frequency in your local, you cannot detect nothing.
62 kHz maybe work in Paraguay but not everywhere else. Of course better to build with changeable antenna circiuts (L1+C1) or switch between different C as in AL718.

And it is a mistake in schematic: [preamp] is not only "preamp" but "OSC" (oscillator stage) too. Most important parts for proper functionality. As preamplifier is here used audio head preamplifier in cassete recorder.

Here proper housing for this LRL device: and here posible solution for such "preamp" (you chose between CP1 and CP2 to connect to you cass. recorder - according lower noise and other disturbances):

[mesy64]

tank you wm6
I want an amplifier and pre amplifier and a Tesla coil to detect metals such as coins, which are below the soil
It is possible that instead of ferrite in the circuit design of the coil Esteban easy to use?
Do you like Esteban Th Tesla coil, but I submit that the schematic that I can detect metals in the soil?(gold)
please help me
tank you

[WM6]

tank you wm6
I want an amplifier and pre amplifier and a Tesla coil to detect metals such as coins, which are below the soil
It is possible that instead of ferrite in the circuit design of the coil Esteban easy to use?
Do you like Esteban Th Tesla coil, but I submit that the schematic that I can detect metals in the soil?(gold)
please help me
tank you

Tesla coil is other story. It cannot work with here presented Esteban construction. It is not directive enough.

Why are you afraid of ferrite coil?

[Max]

hi to all
This circuit was designed by Esteban
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7757&stc=1&d=1234551276
It is instead of ferrite used Tesla Coil?Normal coil
tanks

yes... I remember it, but once again to detect WHAT ?

if receiver is running at 60Khz (LF) range you can get time signals from e.g. NIST

see here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB

BUT you have to be at max 2000Km from Fort Collins, CO, USA otherwise you must rely on other transmitter...

but Esteban NEVER confirmed he's looking for time signals, though I asked him a number of times during testing of that PD gizmo

;)

[J_Player]

yes... I remember it, but once again to detect WHAT ?

if receiver is running at 60Khz (LF) range you can get time signals from e.g. NIST

see here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB

BUT you have to be at max 2000Km from Fort Collins, CO, USA otherwise you must rely on other transmitter...

but Esteban NEVER confirmed he's looking for time signals, though I asked him a number of times during testing of that PD gizmo

;)Hi Max,

This frequency might get a few feet penetration into the ground to be used like geologists use VLF for finding ground anomalies.
But you will find deeper penetration with lower frequencies like 10-30 KHz.

Best wishes,
J_P

[mesy64]

tank you wm6 and other freinds
I'm interested in building a project similar lrl Esteban
Or with Tesla coils or ferrite. No matter
dear wm6 You like to help me and a schematic design is practical, and Esteban with the ferrite to give?
I'm interested in such projects.8)
please help me

[J_Player]

tank you wm6 and other freinds
I'm interested in building a project similar lrl Esteban
Or with Tesla coils or ferrite. No matter
dear wm6 You like to help me and a schematic design is practical, and Esteban with the ferrite to give?
I'm interested in such projects.8)
please help meHi Mesy64,
None of the electronic engineers here have found a VLF circuit that is practical for finding small buried treasures at long distance.
The VLF circuits I see published here are practical only for making VLF surveys as a geologist does.
I have never seen convincing evidence that any of the VLF circuits published in this forum are recovering anything for a treasure hunter.
The exception is the PD which Morgan shows beeping 2 meters distance from a gold medal.
But I do not see the circuit for this PD posted here.
So I can not tell you any practical circuit for treasure hunting.

The VLF circuits I see here are good for spending many hours in the field and surveying large areas of ground to look for hot spots and cold spots.
This is how geologists use VLF receiver circuits.
The best circuits I have seen for locating treasure at long distance is when people make modifications to make these VLF machines more sensitive to smaller metal things.
But I do not see any detailed instructions how to make these modifications.
I see only some hints.

So I tell you there is no practical circuit that I have found in this forum for long range treasure hunting.
Only talk and theories and some VLF designs that are modified to work better for small objects without details that show how to make them work.

Best wishes,
J_P

[mesy64]

hi J_Player
I told you this was my calling.
I'm interested
Please help me make a plan similar to Esteban lrl:frown::frown:

[wam]

Hi, base on this diagram I can advice to try dynamic microphone but stabilize the membrane so You will not have audio vibration on it (only EM field). The winding on the microphone will work as antenna. Take some plastic microphone so it will not shield the winding. You can connect to the winding some wires so it collect more signals. It will be more advance if audio equalizer is on the output so spectrum of the signals can be checked for the best frequency. You can glue some ferrite rode to membrane or winding and shield it with plates so it may have some directional performance. This device will go as low as 20 Hz if audio amp. will make it possible. Have good hunting.

[WM6]

Please help me make a plan similar to Esteban lrl:frown::frown:

Hi mesy

probably you need this:

In other words:

"Show me Gold, I will show you locator!"

[J_Player]

hi J_Player
I told you this was my calling.
I'm interested
Please help me make a plan similar to Esteban lrl:frown::frown:I cannot help you make a plan similar to Esteban that will work. The reason is because Esteban did not show the schematic for his preamp. Everyone who attempted to build Esteban circuits I know of has found they do not work to find treasure. Part of the reason why they did not work to find treasure is because they did not have the complete circuit to build the Esteban locators. They built their version slightly different than the version Esteban built. They could not build it the exact same because Esteban did not show the complete circuit. So they had to guess what parts to use in places where Esteban did not tell the answers. They found that without the original circuit diagram, his circuits are not practical to produce a working locator.

In this case, we know how to build the beeps generator, and we can find an old tape head amplifier. The missing information is the preamp. The missing information of the preamp is known only by Esteban, and he does not make posts here to tell how to connect the preamp, or what parts to use. According to what Esteban has previously posted, many of his preamps require special discrete components such as germanium transistors or diodes or FETs which are connected in a manner that is not usually used in circuits today. Since we don't have an idea of what special parts or circuit connections are made in this preamp, and we don't know what special tuning it requires, it is not possible to make a practical design that we can expect to work.

The remaining option is to guess. This means there are thousands of possible guesses which leave a very unpractical problem to solve. This is something you can spend your own time to solve if you have time for it. You can find hundreds of preamp designs if you click on google for "preamp design". You will be able to find preamp designs from hobbyists, musicians, stereo builders, and even manufacturers of transistors who give complete schematics. But you will not find the missing circuit information that Esteban did not show in his diagram.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

J-P, i was reading your posts, and wanted to ask you : Would you be, by any chance, a teacher, or an anarchist ?

:razz:

[Max]

I cannot help you make a plan similar to Esteban that will work. The reason is because Esteban did not show the schematic for his preamp. Everyone who attempted to build Esteban circuits I know of has found they do not work to find treasure. Part of the reason why they did not work to find treasure is because they did not have the complete circuit to build the Esteban locators. They built their version slightly different than the version Esteban built. They could not build it the exact same because Esteban did not show the complete circuit. So they had to guess what parts to use in places where Esteban did not tell the answers. They found that without the original circuit diagram, his circuits are not practical to produce a working locator.

In this case, we know how to build the beeps generator, and we can find an old tape head amplifier. The missing information is the preamp. The missing information of the preamp is known only by Esteban, and he does not make posts here to tell how to connect the preamp, or what parts to use. According to what Esteban has previously posted, many of his preamps require special discrete components such as germanium transistors or diodes or FETs which are connected in a manner that is not usually used in circuits today. Since we don't have an idea of what special parts or circuit connections are made in this preamp, and we don't know what special tuning it requires, it is not possible to make a practical design that we can expect to work.

The remaining option is to guess. This means there are thousands of possible guesses which leave a very unpractical problem to solve. This is something you can spend your own time to solve if you have time for it. You can find hundreds of preamp designs if you click on google for "preamp design". You will be able to find preamp designs from hobbyists, musicians, stereo builders, and even manufacturers of transistors who give complete schematics. But you will not find the missing circuit information that Esteban did not show in his diagram.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
yes... it's as you described, I asked Esteban many times about his LRL things... and never got a complete schematic to test nor accurate description of e.g. signal and receiver even theoretical and not plain schematics but the usual, almost always boring, vague description or some old picture of scientific amateur books... or moder mechanics stuff etc.

the unsaid about Esteban's LRLs and thus Alonso's one too is that they always thought that a critical tuned receiver design is the lead to LRL to work...

you can see that reading between the lines of such posts , where e.g. Esteban show pictures of an old quartz crystal nobody use today, or when talk about ferrite critically tuned MDs etc.

In the case of tape head amplifier I remember he's strategy was to build an antenna (something VHF stile, using aluminium) then put a ferrite toroidal core with coil in the antenna frame and then connecting the whole thing to the tape head amplifier and beep generator.

The basic idea of this approach is having a HUGE electrical separation (thus impedance) between the sensing coil and the antenna... and the reason is obvious to me: his antenna stuff is critically tuned ! so any change in impedance or load will disturb the critical tuning... read reasonance of the LC component in the antenna circuit

BUT BUT BUT

the question is: what the hell he's trying to detect in the VHF range from a buried target ??? and what's frequency he's looking for ???

never told us... but I guess it's a beacon in VHF , probably just up the end of broadcast band for FM (>110MHz) and looking for an AM signal, an e.g. VOR, NavAid and ILS for airplanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHF_omnidirectional_range)

BUT BUT BUT

we know that VHF is not suitable (usually) to detect underground stuff (unless we talk of e.g. low-res GPR)... so seems pure non-sense from him...

I strongly think that these guys are very passionate RF amateurs and built thousands of coils , receivers etc... using transistors and tubes maybe from the 60s! but this cannot explain their claims

the VHF reflection IS possibile but not by stuff underground so I think they are self-decepted or have illusions that the target acts OVER the soil, by their ion clouds or something to show and make RF reflection appears just over where the item is buried....

this could maybe explain why all their electronic LRLs have RF receivers inside that goes from LF to VHF and maybe even higher frequencies

:rolleyes:

regards
Max

[Max]

J-P, i was reading your posts, and wanted to ask you : Would you be, by any chance, a teacher, or an anarchist ?

:razz:

he's just a provocateur
:lol:

[Fred]

he's just a provocateur
:lol:

Mmmmh...Not "just" ... a demagogue maybe ? :lol:

[J_Player]

Hi,
yes... it's as you described, I asked Esteban many times about his LRL things... and never got a complete schematic to test nor accurate description of e.g. signal and receiver even theoretical and not plain schematics but the usual, almost always boring, vague description or some old picture of scientific amateur books... or moder mechanics stuff etc.

the unsaid about Esteban's LRLs and thus Alonso's one too is that they always thought that a critical tuned receiver design is the lead to LRL to work...

you can see that reading between the lines of such posts , where e.g. Esteban show pictures of an old quartz crystal nobody use today, or when talk about ferrite critically tuned MDs etc.

In the case of tape head amplifier I remember he's strategy was to build an antenna (something VHF stile, using aluminium) then put a ferrite toroidal core with coil in the antenna frame and then connecting the whole thing to the tape head amplifier and beep generator.

The basic idea of this approach is having a HUGE electrical separation (thus impedance) between the sensing coil and the antenna... and the reason is obvious to me: his antenna stuff is critically tuned ! so any change in impedance or load will disturb the critical tuning... read reasonance of the LC component in the antenna circuit

BUT BUT BUT

the question is: what the hell he's trying to detect in the VHF range from a buried target ??? and what's frequency he's looking for ???

never told us... but I guess it's a beacon in VHF , probably just up the end of broadcast band for FM (>110MHz) and looking for an AM signal, an e.g. VOR, NavAid and ILS for airplanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHF_omnidirectional_range)

BUT BUT BUT

we know that VHF is not suitable (usually) to detect underground stuff (unless we talk of e.g. low-res GPR)... so seems pure non-sense from him...

I strongly think that these guys are very passionate RF amateurs and built thousands of coils , receivers etc... using transistors and tubes maybe from the 60s! but this cannot explain their claims

the VHF reflection IS possibile but not by stuff underground so I think they are self-decepted or have illusions that the target acts OVER the soil, by their ion clouds or something to show and make RF reflection appears just over where the item is buried....

this could maybe explain why all their electronic LRLs have RF receivers inside that goes from LF to VHF and maybe even higher frequencies

:rolleyes:

regards
MaxHi Max,
Before I get into details of the Esteban design, a simple answer to solve mesy64 request for circuit schematic help:
WM6 has already posted a circuit diagram you can use for the preamp:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17194&stc=1&d=1319461865

As I said, this is only one of thousands of preamps you could use, and it looks like a good guess to me.
I doubt it will work, but who knows until you try it?
Now you have all the missing parts to the circuit so you can connect 6v batteries to a 5v regulator and wire the 5 volts to the circuit above and also to the + connection on the tape head amplifier and beeps generator.


About the Esteban circuits....
This particular circuit is not VHF. It is VLF. It seems to me Esteban used three different frequencies: AF which was usually 400 Hz for audio signals, VHF tuned just above the FM broadcast band, and VLF usually at 62 KHz.

The VLF is easy to understand because it penetrates into the ground and can be used to find anomalies when monitoring the RX in a survey mode. The choice of 62 KHz would seem to be a compromise to move the frequency as high as possible for locating smaller things while not losing too much depth penetration into the ground. But what Esteban answered when asked about this is he has used many frequencies between 15 KHz and 180 KHz. He said he found the best results at around 60 KHz because higher and lower frequencies would pick up too much aluminum, or would pick up too much stray noise.

The combination of VHF and AF is seemingly a different principle of operation. The only comprehensible theory I have read published here is that buried metals cause anomalies in the wave propagation near the surface at the VLF frequencies. By doing some weird mixing of audio and RF signals, Esteban said he could hear a "difference" in a 400 Hz audio sound he was tuning from a 110 MHz modified pocket radio. This "difference" in the sound may be referring to a tone change, or pitch change, or waveform change at the same pitch. This translates to phase shift, 400 Hz frequency shift, 400 Hz audio wave deformation, amplitude change, or possibly other things that changed in the circuit.
We don't know anything about it because we do not have the circuit to test and find out.
All we know is that he reported a change in the 400 Hz sound he heard on the modified FM radio.

Also to note about the 400 Hz sound he tuned... He did not use a transmitter to send the frequency of the pocket radio (110 MHz). This radio was picking up noise from his 400 Hz switching circuit nearby. This makes me think of broadband noise at the rise and fall of the 555 timer that makes a square wave for the 400 Hz. But we see this square wave is driving a LED and also runs through a few turns of a loop. A very strange circuit indeed. We can see he took care to tune to a dead spot on the band so there would be no broadcast interfering with 400 Hz the noise he picked up. This tells me this circuit does not depend on a VHF broadcast. He only used the receiver to pick up local noise from his audio oscillator and attached wiring. If I were to speculate, I would look at the broadband noise made by the audio circuit and examine it on a scope with an air probe to see how the noise changes when you point toward a buried object.


...Would you be, by any chance, a teacher, or an anarchist ?Hi Fred,
In the past, I had a job where part of my work was to teach technical things to workers who would be operating machines that our company manufactured.
I don't like the idea of anarchy. I think it is good to have a governing structure.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi J_P
ok but the 400Hz he said could be explained in other ways still considering the option of the external (far) transmitter both LF range (62Khz) and also maybe in VHF (>110Mhz)

400Hz is a freq. tone used in some old BFO detectors

now suppose the theory of Esteban (or Alonso) is that they untune a little their local oscillator to get some freq. 400 above or less than the supposed external "carrier", means that if the carrier from beacon or time station is e.g. 62000 Hz they tune to 62400 Hz (a clear frequency with not much interference in LF band) then they put the directive antenna with ferrite in null position respect to the max receive edge (that's 90° offset)... I remember that many times he pointed that walking in straight lines using directional indications (e.g. north-south or the like), they will have a null signal or minimum they could balance electronically to reject

then now suppose the metallic mass of target buried could reflect incoming rf waves: there could be a local anomaly in waves propagation , an increase in signal entering receiver and thus mixing the received signal with local oscillator signal they could get the difference , so 400Hz

Now... all this supposed working ( :rolleyes: ) if the transmitter has a VERY stable frequency (and e.g. time signals tx HAVE, like the one of NIST) , the local osc. has a VERY stable frequency (in the tens of ppm or less) they could really get exactly e.g. 400.00001Hz and not 401 or 400.1Hz from signals mixing and thus get a clear indication that the signal received is not from noise if too weak , I mean if they use BFO approach with very accurate frequencies on local and remote source they actually improve much S/N ratio on detection of small and weak signal above the background noise , maybe they use cascaded or active filters to catch that 400Hz and ignore all the rest

the fact he was talking of ppm variation of frequencies, stabilized by quartz crystals also let me think one criticality is frequency stability for BFO operations and I actually think that his real preamp uses an ultrastable local oscillator with integrated mixer (a transistor I think), then put the output mixed signal in input to the tape head amplifier: the tape head amplifiers have incredibly good S/N, 400Hz is within the working range, and they do not introduce much distortion in signal (so e.g. much frequency shifts) , then maybe the 400Hz signal drives the 555 some how to get some monostable interval e.g. 100mS to give the user a more solid detection , maybe cause reception of reflected waves could be tricky to detect e.g. walking and is too rapid to trigger consistent audio indication.

Just theory , of course, remainding what he wrote here... but I think his PDs are based all on these ideas...

but I don't think that stuff work

regards
Max

[mesy64]

HI
I want to make a receiver circuit waves in metals such as coins would be below the soil surface
When you search the forum I saw a number of circuit designs in this regard, but Esteban was interesting.
I read your posts so I advise every one to But my friends do Ntvantstm result of discussions
You have friends who can help me build a device similar to the Esteban And introduced me to a schematic with respect:frown::frown:

[mosha]

HI
I want to make a receiver circuit waves in metals such as coins would be below the soil surface
When you search the forum I saw a number of circuit designs in this regard, but Esteban was interesting.
I read your posts so I advise every one to But my friends do Ntvantstm result of discussions
You have friends who can help me build a device similar to the Esteban And introduced me to a schematic with respect:frown::frown:

As JP explain very clear in his previos presentation, no body can help to build Esteban LRL, because Esteban did not show any clear schematic for LRL, but may be Morgan and Geo can help you in the closed RS if the administrator allow you to participate there.

Regards,
Mosha

[Fred]

Hi J_P
Hi Fred,
In the past, I had a job where part of my work was to teach technical things to workers who would be operating machines that our company manufactured.
I don't like the idea of anarchy. I think it is good to have a governing structure.
Best wishes,
J_P


:lol: Great answer :D

[J_Player]

Hi J_P
ok but the 400Hz he said could be explained in other ways still considering the option of the external (far) transmitter both LF range (62Khz) and also maybe in VHF (>110Mhz)

400Hz is a freq. tone used in some old BFO detectors

now suppose the theory of Esteban (or Alonso) is that they untune a little their local oscillator to get some freq. 400 above or less than the supposed external "carrier", means that if the carrier from beacon or time station is e.g. 62000 Hz they tune to 62400 Hz (a clear frequency with not much interference in LF band) then they put the directive antenna with ferrite in null position respect to the max receive edge (that's 90° offset)... I remember that many times he pointed that walking in straight lines using directional indications (e.g. north-south or the like), they will have a null signal or minimum they could balance electronically to reject

then now suppose the metallic mass of target buried could reflect incoming rf waves: there could be a local anomaly in waves propagation , an increase in signal entering receiver and thus mixing the received signal with local oscillator signal they could get the difference , so 400Hz

Now... all this supposed working ( :rolleyes: ) if the transmitter has a VERY stable frequency (and e.g. time signals tx HAVE, like the one of NIST) , the local osc. has a VERY stable frequency (in the tens of ppm or less) they could really get exactly e.g. 400.00001Hz and not 401 or 400.1Hz from signals mixing and thus get a clear indication that the signal received is not from noise if too weak , I mean if they use BFO approach with very accurate frequencies on local and remote source they actually improve much S/N ratio on detection of small and weak signal above the background noise , maybe they use cascaded or active filters to catch that 400Hz and ignore all the rest

the fact he was talking of ppm variation of frequencies, stabilized by quartz crystals also let me think one criticality is frequency stability for BFO operations and I actually think that his real preamp uses an ultrastable local oscillator with integrated mixer (a transistor I think), then put the output mixed signal in input to the tape head amplifier: the tape head amplifiers have incredibly good S/N, 400Hz is within the working range, and they do not introduce much distortion in signal (so e.g. much frequency shifts) , then maybe the 400Hz signal drives the 555 some how to get some monostable interval e.g. 100mS to give the user a more solid detection , maybe cause reception of reflected waves could be tricky to detect e.g. walking and is too rapid to trigger consistent audio indication.

Just theory , of course, remainding what he wrote here... but I think his PDs are based all on these ideas...

but I don't think that stuff work

regards
MaxHi Max,
I don't think the VLF beacon transmitters have anything to do with the VLF receivers that Esteban built.
I think his receivers were adjusted to work at dead spots where he would receive no broadcasts except what he sent out from his oscillators.

The exotic circuits we read about with crystals and and mixers appear to be attempts to process a signal so he could easily hear an audio tone as a result of a very slight change to a high frequency. I do not believe these precision frequencies had anything to do with broadcasts from distant transmitters or a "treasure signal". My opinion is there is no specific frequency dedicated to gold or other metals. Just as there is no specific frequency dedicated to detecting music. We can detect music an many different radio frequencies by using many decoding schemes. The final music we hear is all the same, even though we can tune it from KHz, MHz or GHz, and a lot of other bands in between those. I think the same for detecting metals. What is the gold frequency we must use for a metal detector? Can be 5000 Hz, 7000 Hz, 50 KHz, or less than 400 Hz for some PI detectors. frequency not so important because there is no gold frequency. Frequency is only important to choose a frequency that will work ok for your detection method. I think same for LRL, but only for an LRL that will actually work when tested. I think not for MFD where people believe the gold is vibrating at a frequency they can detect. Same as it is not vibrating at a frequency that a metal detector can detect.
So for my discussion, I do not talk about gold detection frequency. I see only frequencies that were chosen for convenience... ie: 110 MHz is convenient because easy to use FM receiver. 400 Hz is convenient because easy to hear and build with 555 timer.

What I think about the Esteban circuits is he had only two basic detecting methods. The VLF which works based on RF absorbance/reflection of VLF from his transmitter, and the AF which is not related to the VLF or other FM band frequencies.

For the moment, lets take another look at the 400 Hz signal. Actually I don't think there are any VHF dynamics at work in the 400 Hz detector. The 110 MHz receiver frequency I think he chose because it was easy to tune a old style FM radio to a dead spot by bending one of the coils to raise the frequency slightly out of the broadcast range. I think he would find the same results at a dead spot near 50 MHz or 200 MHz. From What I see in his posts it appears he was only picking up noise that is radiated from his nearby audio circuit. Certainly there are no transmitters sending a signal at the frequency he tuned the receiver to.

So let's look at the 400 Hz circuit from an engineering point of view rather than Esteban's theory point of view. We have a 555 timer sending a square wave through 2 LEDs and a few turns in a loop. I know from my own recent measuring 3v calculator switching circuits in the audio range I could detect the switching up to 6 inches distance from the calculator in best conditions. I particularly noticed the rise and fall times which had much higher frequency noise during the settling from high and to low states. what I found surprising is the dc components were preserved when I recorded these square waves at some distance through the air. The wave shape could be distorted by using a coil pickup or capacitors of certain values, and combinations of them. But the Esteban circuit is not a simple square wave like a calculator. This square wave signal is sent through a loop which allows any radiated signal to travel farther than the 6 inches I could measure from a calculator running at a lower voltage. I don't expect this loop to have any tuning ability for the audio frequency of the 555, or not even for the broadband noise. But I do expect it to act as a larger surface conductor to spread whatever signal is radiating from the switching. How do I know this? I don't. It is only my best estimate of what I think is happening after spending a lot of hours observing small audio signals leaking from various calculators and mobile phones.

Since Esteban kept the receiver close to the audio circuit, it was able to detect the noise and make a 400 Hz sound on the speaker. The receiver frequency was unimportant as long as it did not receive a broadcast from some distant transmitter. Any VHF frequency in the range could pick up the audio noise. Then the interesting part. According to Esteban, When he pointed the audio loop toward buried metal he heard something change in the sound. This is not his theory, but what he says he observed. If this change in the sound is true when pointing to buried metal, then it means we could measure a change in the audio signal that radiates into the air from the 400 Hz circuit. This is one of the few Esteban LRLs which we could actually take measurements from to see what the signal really is. We would not need to worry about influencing the internal circuit with test probes because all we need is a small probe in the air to see this signal -- same as the FM receiver sees the signal. If this signal is strong enough to make a noise interference on an FM radio, then it is certainly strong enough to make a signal you can see on a modest cost oscilloscope.

From my point of view, this is how you can find some information to learn about the signal that Esteban measures on his 400 Hz circuit. I believe you can take these measurements even without putting the FM receiver nearby. You only need the 400 Hz circuit and a scope that can pick up the air signals around it. Then move the circuit around to where there are buried things to see what changes you find in the audio.

I should also point out your ear is much more sophisticated for hearing very slight changes in the sound than the image you see on an oscilloscope. We can hear small changes in wave shape and phase that are hard to see on a scope without making overlays of signals before and after. But for bigger changes in the sound, they can be easy to spot on a scope trace.

Finally about the Esteban/Alonso theory...
I remember often Esteban talking about his theories, which were sometimes obviously wrong, and other times probably correct. One thing I learned is that you can count on he would report what he observed. But often he would also report things that were not observations, but his conclusions. By this I mean he once talked about the phase change in the 400 Hz. When I asked him how he knows there is a phase change, he explained he only assumes... it turns out that what he heard some kind of change in the sound which he did not describe exactly to be a change in frequency, pitch, or tone or loudness. He only said the sound changed. So I see he did not observe any phase change, but a change in the sound he heard. And I am careful to look for places where he is reporting observations like a change in the sound, rather than conclusions such as the audio signal phase shifted. These seem like small details, but they are extremely important if you want to understand how the signal is detected. Instead of assuming, you can connect instruments and look to see exactly what the signal is. No need to guess. For people who insist it is ok to assume, then they can spend years looking in the wrong place for answers that can easily be seen by checking to be sure instead of guessing.

Because Esteban has often mixed his conclusions with his observations, I suspect that he is not certain of the theories he has about what is causing this change in the sound, and probably does not know what physical events cause the change other than "the phenomenon". The problem is nobody ever defined exactly what is "the phenomenon". It seems to have different properties for each person who says they observe it. Most metal detectorists who describe it say it simply causes long-time buried metal things to have a very strong detector signal until after they dig it up. Then signal returns to normal. But LRL hobbyists describe many different properties which are not the same from one person to another. Other people who have not observed any "phenomenon" describe it as something that does not exist.

As for the 400 Hz signal, I actually don't know what is being detected with the 400 Hz locator. I would not try to guess because there is an easier way to find out. You only need to build one and test it on instruments to see what is changing. It seems a pretty easy project.


Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

The 110 MHz receiver frequency I think he chose because it was easy to tune a old style FM radio to a dead spot by bending one of the coils to raise the frequency slightly out of the broadcast range. I think he would find the same results at a dead spot near 50 MHz or 200 MHz.



Yes, frequency of receiver is not important, it only need to be FM. To use commercially available 110 MHz receivers is only more comfortable than build something new.

[Max]

Hi,
I don't think it's FM at all, cause if you remember Esteban's "design" with the toroid and antenna frame+ tape head amplifier it's fully AM thing... cause tape head recorders do not modulate by freq the signal so it's just matter of AM detection and modulation I think, and that's also this way in the case of VHF range, cause over 100MHz the navaid and aircraft band uses narroband am transmission over the VHF carrier

also if we consider the 62KHz range there's no room for real FM in that bands and modulation is always AM kind, like happens with time signals

but maybe I'm wrong, Esteban knows...:rolleyes:

Kind regards
Max

[WM6]

There are different Estebans design. One, which use FM receiver, is based on signal propagation phase "anomalies" supported by adequate circuit, which can be detected only by FM receiver. Tape recorder design is other things. First is based on some sort of signal frequency modulation and other one on changing in amplitude (all depending on antenna(s) direction).

[mesy64]

Dear friends, wm6,max,j-p,mosha and....
I was confused account of the discussions you
Please give me a schematic of this type of detector?:frown:
In general, a circular coil connected to an input amplifier Perry is causing the waves emitted by metal buried beneath the soil to reveal???:

[Aziz]

Hi guys,

go and read the antenna basics before making any speculations and assumptions.

And consider the following fact:

A similar comparison to the astronomy:
Your detector is detecting only to micro wave and infra red spectrum. But you want to detect small particles. The emission (TX) isn't absorbed by the small particles, they "ride" with the EM waves. The small particles aren't visible to your detector.

Transfer this to the frequency spectrum VLF.
All the small targets can't be detected really. They don't either absorb nor reflect the TX emissions. They are completely invisible to the very long EM waves.

To understand it better, look at the reflector part of directional antenna basics.
When does a reflector reflects EM waves?

Radios & LRL's aren't metal detectors!
All this LRL stuff is bull$hit. It is what it is: bull$hit.
Enough bull$hit guys.

Aziz

[WM6]

Please give me a schematic of this type of detector?:frown:

:

You ask for schematic of casette recorder you use too?

[WM6]

Transfer this to the frequency spectrum VLF.
All the small targets can't be detected really.



This is true Aziz, but who is asking for small targets? Mesy has here of tons of gold in mind.

[Aziz]

This is true Aziz, but who is asking for small targets? Mesy has here of tons of gold in mind.

Look at the wave length of a 30 kHz or 100 kHz EM wave and compare it with a gold coin or gold ring dimension.

Wave length wl = c/f [m],
c = speed of light [m/s]
f = frequency of EM wave [1/s]

Put f=100 kHz and let's see, what wave length wl is:
wl = (300 000 000 m/s) / (100 000 /s) = 3000 m.

Oh $hit, our gold ring is a small particle now!!!!
Oh $hit!
:D
Aziz

[WM6]

Put f=100 kHz and let's see, what wave length wl is:
wl = (300 000 000 m/s) / (100 000 /s) = 3000 m.



Yes Aziz, but this not mean that long wave lenght are not reflective from small targets.

All wave lenght are pretty same reflective from small metall target (on same field strenght). The main difference is in its dispersivity on reflection (depend on angle of incidence). Short wave lenght are very little dispersive from same metalic surface in comparition of long wavelenght.

So it was possible to beat down 10m invisible aircraft with 100m (3MHz) wave lenght radar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-frequency_radar

[Fred]

Also there may be a "halo" effect wich size is unknown.

[Aziz]

There is a free antenna simulating software available. It's called 4nec2 ( http://home.ict.nl/~arivoors/Home.htm ). You can use the free NEC2 engines (modules).

Just make a simple VLF TX antenna over a ground plane (ground) and look at the radiation pattern. Compare this radiation pattern with a gold coin placed somewhere (not much far away to see more difference).

That would be a good lecture lesson I think. But I suppose, it's beyond the scope of LRL believers.

Don't spread bull$hit please. We have too much bull$hit in the world.
:D
Aziz

[Aziz]

Also there may be a "halo" effect wich size is unknown.

BULL$HIT!

[WM6]

BULL$HIT!



Aziz, gold is the biggest BULL$HIT! in the world.

[Max]

Look at the wave length of a 30 kHz or 100 kHz EM wave and compare it with a gold coin or gold ring dimension.

Wave length wl = c/f [m],
c = speed of light [m/s]
f = frequency of EM wave [1/s]

Put f=100 kHz and let's see, what wave length wl is:
wl = (300 000 000 m/s) / (100 000 /s) = 3000 m.

Oh $hit, our gold ring is a small particle now!!!!
Oh $hit!
:D
Aziz

Hi
yes, long waves are not really reflected by small metallic masses, not dubt about but that doesn't mean their presence couldn't cause some alteration in propagation of such waves e.g. in the soil, even not considering the presence of an "halo" effect due to the target and we cannot take into account cause nobody really knows if there is or how to model.

It's not that easy to liquidate the topic... as an example I can say that e.g. 30 GHz microwaves propagation (10mm wavelength) is strongly affected by particulate in fog... but I don't see any fog particle anything near 10mm in diameter but maybe 1000 times less! ;)

it's the overall effect that we are interested in, we are not talking of a standard solid "reflector" here, cause it's obvious can't work for such small stuff and so long wavelength; but maybe the effect of the metallic mass in soil is "larger" than the mass dimensions itself... think e.g. not only at "halo" but at earth currents that may develop and interfere with signal propagation, or think e.g. at eventual absorbance of RF by nanoparticles of the dispersed metal in soil e.g. in the case of copper or silver...

so, probably all LRL topic is BS cause it's related to scum activities and people without a good understanding of physics, but maybe is good considering the whole scenario before liquidating as BS the rf propagation for small stuff topic...
:lol:

regards
Max

[Max]

Aziz, gold is the biggest BULL$HIT! in the world.

are you communist maybe ? :rolleyes:

regards
Max

[mesy64]

You ask for schematic of casette recorder you use too?

Yes, dear friend. Cassette plan or any plan for further assessment of other practical use can be made ​​. 'm Waiting for your help

[J_Player]

Hi guys,

go and read the antenna basics before making any speculations and assumptions.

And consider the following fact:

A similar comparison to the astronomy:
Your detector is detecting only to micro wave and infra red spectrum. But you want to detect small particles. The emission (TX) isn't absorbed by the small particles, they "ride" with the EM waves. The small particles aren't visible to your detector.

Transfer this to the frequency spectrum VLF.
All the small targets can't be detected really. They don't either absorb nor reflect the TX emissions. They are completely invisible to the very long EM waves.

To understand it better, look at the reflector part of directional antenna basics.
When does a reflector reflects EM waves?

Radios & LRL's aren't metal detectors!
All this LRL stuff is bull$hit. It is what it is: bull$hit.
Enough bull$hit guys.

AzizHi Asis,

In order to understand how these VLF circuits can detect you must first take a look at the near-field propagation for loop antennas.
The mechanics are a bit different than far-field propagation.
In your argument you make an assumption that is not true.
These transmitters and receivers are not beeping at small particles.
They are beeping at large volumes of soil.
It is not possible for a VLF to detect a coin for example. But it is very possible to detect a larger anomaly in the chemical/electrical properties of the soil.
Of course, even when we move to the higher VLF frequencies, we still have a hard time to detect a large anomaly in the soil, so we don't expect the usual geologist's 10-20 KHz frequencies to be the most suitable for this application.
In fact we see most VLF experimenters using transmitters in the 60-120 KHz range who report they are finding some sort of results from more than a meter distance.
Keep in mind these frequencies are not used for imaging. They are only claiming they observe beeping when pointing the direction of ground with a long-time buried metal object.

I am very familiar with antenna basics and with near field propagation from a VLF loop. What most people don't understand is these transmitters and receivers are not detecting any small object. They are detecting anomalies that come from much larger volumes of soil which have changed electrically as a result of chemical actions around the buried object. It is well documented that even gold dissolves into the soil in small amounts, due to chemical actions of soil constituents. But this also applies to copper, aluminum, iron, silver, lead, zinc, and any other metals that are found buried. We can expect the copper and silver which is usually alloyed in a buried gold object to be polluting the local area of soil more than the concentration of gold dissolved. However I do not put this forth as a theory. There are hundreds of scientist and lab technicians all over the world who have already measured the chemical changes I talk about. By measuring these anomalies in the soil, technicians have been consistently locating gold ores and other metals that have been long-time buried below the anomalies for decades. You can read more about this here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=55850&postcount=10
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56059&postcount=33
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56124&postcount=41

I do not even claim that this large volume of altered ground is what the VLF detectors are detecting.
I speculate this is related to the reports of beeping from 2 meters distance or more.
I actually suspect there is more involved than simply beeping at some electrically altered ground.
Near field VLF wave propagation is also influenced by some related electrical events that are taking place on the surface where we find soil with anomalies in the electrical properties.

I don't think any simple VLF survey equipment as used by a geologist will adequately detect these soil anomalies I am talking about.
I believe it takes a specially modified version moved to a higher frequency and adapted for directional surveying and a few other details before they begin to become detectable.
But this is only my thinking.
At this point nobody has offered a complete theory how any of this could work or not work. So it is only a bunch of talk.

Except for one thing...
If VLF is not capable of detecting as I speculate, then what is causing Morgan's VLF detector to beep 2 meters distance from the buried gold medal which has been buried a long time in his test garden?
I watched the video like everyone else, when he had an un-convinced electronic engineer as witness who became convinced after trying it himself.

The way I see it we can either say it does not work and is bs, or we can wonder what caused the beeping.
I have heard enough reports of VLF detecting at more than 2 meters distance to convince me it is worth investigating a little more before deciding a VLF machine cannot produce beeps from a few meters distance.

It can't be that hard to put a scope on the detector stage of a VLF locator to see what is changing in the signal when you point it toward some buried metal.
Maybe it is easier to holler BS and pretend it is not possible for the ground to be altered around buried metals and cause some beeping.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Aziz]

Looks like the LRL rats have a bull$hit explanation V2.0

Stop talking bull$hit now!
:D
Aziz

[J_Player]

Looks like the LRL rats have a bull$hit explanation V2.0

Stop talking bull$hit now!
:D
AzizHi Asis,
You make another mistake.
I have not given an explanation at all.
I simply showed what was wrong with your argument.
I showed how you ignored some chemical/electrical events which happen in the ground around metals which have been buried a long time.
And I showed that there is an overwhelming body of evidence that buried metals are routinely detected by technicians measuring these anomalies.

I did not prove that VLF detects small particles, in fact I stated it cannot.
But I did ask a question that you did not answer.
And I ask it again...

If VLF is not capable of detecting as I speculate, then what is causing Morgan's VLF detector to beep 2 meters distance from the buried gold medal which has been buried a long time in his test garden?

I have heard other people give answers to this question. What is yours?

Best wishes,
J_P

[MIJ]

J P

A brilliant post especially for anyone like me who didn’t understand how VLF works.

Also the links all about Gold in the ground and what happens to it.

Have you actually made and tested a VLF unit?

Great info thanks.

[WM6]

are you communist maybe ? :rolleyes:

regards
Max

No, prisonist in wrong galaxy.

[WM6]

Yes, dear friend. Cassette plan or any plan for further assessment of other practical use can be made ​​. 'm Waiting for your help

No problem, mesy, send me your cassette player and I will make you schematic.

[Geo]

Hi Asis,
You make another mistake.
I have not given an explanation at all.
I simply showed what was wrong with your argument.
I showed how you ignored some chemical/electrical events which happen in the ground around metals which have been buried a long time.
And I showed that there is an overwhelming body of evidence that buried metals are routinely detected by technicians measuring these anomalies.

I did not prove that VLF detects small particles, in fact I stated it cannot.
But I did ask a question that you did not answer.
And I ask it again...

If VLF is not capable of detecting as I speculate, then what is causing Morgan's VLF detector to beep 2 meters distance from the buried gold medal which has been buried a long time in his test garden?

I have heard other people give answers to this question. What is yours?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
Don't you know the answer???
A hiden telecontrol:lol:

Regards

Btw... very good post.....:)

[MIJ]

J P

This subject just got me thinking “and that’s hard work for me ha ha”

Its common knowledge to any one like me who has been metal detecting using a standard motion detector since 1970, that in damp ground conditions most metallic targets underground give a more positive signal than when ground conditions are very dry, we understand that this is caused by the hallow in the soil around the target?

So I was surprised to read some where in this forum, that using a VLF unit in damp or moist conditions is not good?

Also using a VLF unit in overcast sky’s not good?

Maybe you can explain why.

[Aziz]

LRL rats trying the bull$hit explanation V3.0 now.
:lol:
Bull$hit is bull$hit. You can not change bull$hit into gold or treasure.
:lol:
Aziz

JP, can't you read? Stop talking bull$hit.

[J_Player]

LRL rats trying the bull$hit explanation V3.0 now.
:lol:
Bull$hit is bull$hit. You can not change bull$hit into gold or treasure.
:lol:
Aziz

JP, can't you read? Stop talking bull$hit.Hi Aziz,
Of course I can read. I read you still did not answer my question.
Should I take your answer to mean you believe Morgan's video is fake?

Or do you mean something different?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Aziz]

Hi Aziz,
Of course I can read. But you still did not answer my question.
Should I take this to mean you believe Morgan's video was fake?

Or do you mean something different?

Best wishes,
J_P

You can do more to the mankind, if you stop talking and spreading bull$hit!
I suggest you read something about antenna basics, EM wave propagation, etc., etc. .

You can't read. Otherwise, you would write my name correct!
Aziz

[J_Player]

You can do more to the mankind, if you stop talking and spreading bull$hit!
I suggest you read something about antenna basics, EM wave propagation, etc., etc. .

You can't read. Otherwise, you would write my name correct!
AzizHi Aziz,
I have read books that explain antenna basics and EM wave propagation. What more about antennas would you suggest I should read?
How would you like me to write your name?

When I say there are chemical and electrical anomalies in the ground that come from buried metals, I am not talking BS.
It was actually a group of Australian scientists and laboratory technicians who spread this idea.
And these same scientists and technicians recovered millions of dollars worth of gold and other metals all over the world after measuring these anomalies.
There are thousands of examples of gold recoveries made by measuring these anomalies. You can read hundreds of examples in my links.

Do you have any evidence to show these technicians are making fake reports or the gold was really not recovered?
I would like to see your evidence to show it is not true, and that they are "spreading BS".


Still, You have not answered a simple question I asked about the video Morgan posted:

What do you think caused Morgan's VLF detector to make beeping noises at 2 meters distance from where he buried a gold medal?

The only answer I have read from you is your hollering BS.
This does not answer the question I asked.

Can you tell what you think is the answer to why you hear beeping in his video at 2 meters distance?
Many other people have given answers. What is yours?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Aziz]

Hi Aziz,

<bull$hit removed>

What do you think caused Morgan's VLF detector to make beeping noises at 2 meters distance from where he buried a gold medal?

<bull$hit removed>

Best wishes,
J_P

Morgan is one of the best LRL rats. He also spreads bull$hit.
And not to forget Geo.

Comeon guys, learn something valuable and don't spread the bull$hit.
Enough is enough!
Aziz

[mosha]

I see the skeptics changed their position against Aziz:).

[Morgan]

Morgan is one of the best LRL rats. He also spreads bull$hit.
And not to forget Geo.

Comeon guys, learn something valuable and don't spread the bull$hit.
Enough is enough!
Aziz

You will swalow your words,big RAT.

Your knowledge not enough to make one simple LRL ?

[Aziz]

You will swalow your words,big RAT.

Your knowledge not enough to make one simple LRL ?

Oh yes, that's really true!
I can't make any simple LRL.

The reason is simple:
It isn't possible you big LRL RAT!
:D

Show me your schematics and I show you what you are really measuring!

Cheers,
Aziz

[Morgan]

Oh yes, that's really true!
I can't make any simple LRL.

The reason is simple:
It isn't possible you big LRL RAT!
:D

Show me your schematics and I show you what you are really measuring!

Cheers,
Aziz

So you want schematics

That is very funny,why you need them?

I supose you said that all LRL are BS ???!!!

so,no need schematics

[Aziz]

So you want schematics

That is very funny,why you need them?

I supose you said that all LRL are BS ???!!!

so,no need schematics

You don't have the courage to do it. Because it would reveal the truth that it isn't really working.

Yes, all LRL's are bull$hit.
And everyone, who sells them are ********s! (Sorry, but that's the right term).

Comeon, show me the schematics and I show you what you are measuring.
That's very simple.
Aziz

[Morgan]

You don't have the courage to do it. Because it would reveal the truth that it isn't really working.

Yes, all LRL's are bull$hit.
And everyone, who sells them are ********s! (Sorry, but that's the right term).

Comeon, show me the schematics and I show you what you are measuring.
That's very simple.
Aziz

yes,you are rigth to call BS and *******s to most of LRL´s dealers

is absolutly criminal to ask 5.000 E for one non working LRL

i´m not in this list

[Aziz]

yes,you are rigth to call BS and *******s to most of LRL´s dealers

is absolutly criminal to ask 5.000 E for one non working LRL

i´m not in this list

You can proof your credibility if you show your schematics.
I'll make an analysis, will build it and test it.

Deal or not deal?

Put up or shut up!

Aziz

[Morgan]

You can proof your credibility if you show your schematics.
I'll make an analysis, will build it and test it.

Deal or not deal?

Put up or shut up!

Aziz

even with all your measuring instruments you cant put a LRL to work.
I was lucky becouse as everybody knows,i have a field test for LRL´s,gold buried more than 20 years ago,and this create what we call the PHENOMENON,something that we are trying to understand.
Just for you have ideia of how dificult it is to put LRL to work,recently in my PDK project i spent two years, i try more than 20 diferent coils,and make changes in capacitors,until i get ONE CHANGE WHO WORKS AS LRL..

I was trying to help people in TH with my PDK´s,Mosha,Mij and Takslambos, but after talking with you,i have a diferent point of view,better not sell noting ,the money i will collect for this REALY WORKING LRL´s not make any diference for me,and not pay the bad words i can listen from skeptics.

[WM6]

I'll make an analysis, will build it and test it.



Aziz, why you need to build it and test it?

You are not sure that it is not-working?

[Morgan]

Aziz, why you need to build it and test it?

You are not sure that it is not-working?

i supose Aziz is only 99,9% skeptic...

[WM6]

I was trying to help people in TH with my PDK´s,Mosha,Mij and Takslambos, but after talking with you,i have a diferent point of view,better not sell noting ,the money i will collect for this REALY WORKING LRL´s not make any diference for me,and not pay the bad words i can listen from skeptics.



Hi Morgan

Aziz has only bad day. No need of bad feelings.

I can only repeat: Most sceptic here support all research in field of remote detecting no matter if it make sense for us or not.

We are only strong against commercial scam naive people with non-working LRL creations. As I believe you are.

Yes, we ask for evidence and will ask for evidence that support remote detecting claims. But this not change the fact that we support all research in field of remote sensing.

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan

Aziz has only bad day. No need of bad feelings.

I can only repeat: Most sceptic here support all research in field of remote detecting no matter if it make sense for us or not.

We are only strong against commercial scam naive people with non-working LRL creations. As I believe you are.

Yes, we ask for evidence and will ask for evidence that support remote detecting claims. But this not change the fact that we support all research in field of remote sensing.

you call me commercial scam naive with non-working LRL creations.
for me thats enough,double decision to not sell any PDK-2

like this i no need anymore to find special epoxy to sealed the PCB´s...
Well,there is one PDK-2 working in UCRAIN,i borow it to a friend to try there,sealed with PULEURITANE spray,is working fine,this friend found something in gold and silver too,i have GOOD NEWS, PDK works out from my country. You or other skeptics cant stop LRL progress,BIG HONOR to ESTEBAN the GREAT LRL MASTER !!!

;)

[J_Player]

Hi Morgan

Aziz has only bad day. No need of bad feelings.

I can only repeat: Most sceptic here support all research in field of remote detecting no matter if it make sense for us or not.

We are only strong against commercial scam naive people with non-working LRL creations. As I believe you are.

Yes, we ask for evidence and will ask for evidence that support remote detecting claims. But this not change the fact that we support all research in field of remote sensing.Hi WM6
This is exactly correct.
I am a very big skeptic.
I like to see real proof in front of me before I will believe talk I read in forums.
Up to this time I see NOTHING to convince me LRL is working.
Then I watch video from Morgan with Geo who does not believe ... and I see VLF detector making beeps from 2 meters.

What does this mean?
Is it a trick?
I think no.
I think I am watching real video that has no deception.
But still I like to see with my own eyes and hold this pistol in my hands to see if it is really working.
So I am not 100% certain... I only know what I see on this video.
And I do not believe Morgan or Geo will make false claims for the Geotech forum.
So I am thinking this is probably a true video.

At the same time I think that Dell Winders and Mike(Mont) are manufacturers who are taking money from naive people who do not know what will work and what is impossible for detecting treasures.

Maybe some day Morgan will come to the USA and bring his PDK...
then we can see if he can find some very old buried gold nuggets in northern California.
And we can also find some good fishing in the rivers from this area too :)

For now, we can forget about theories...
I have seen the videos with beeping detectors...
and I have seen the fish in the rivers...
they appear to be real to me...
maybe it is time for going to the field to make observations. :lol:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Hi WM6
This is exactly correct.
I am a very big skeptic.
I like to see real proof in front of me before I will believe talk I read in forums.
Up to this time I see NOTHING to convince me LRL is working.
Then I watch video from Morgan with Geo who does not believe ... and I see VLF detector making beeps from 2 meters.

What does this mean?
Is it a trick?
I think no.
I think I am watching real video that has no deception.
But still I like to see with my own eyes and hold this pistol in my hands to see if it is really working.
So I am not 100% certain... I only know what I see on this video.
And I do not believe Morgan or Geo will make false claims for the Geotech forum.
So I am thinking this is probably a true video.

Maybe some day Morgan will come to the USA and bring his PDK...
then we can see if he can find some very old buried gold nuggets in northern California.
And we can also find some good fishing in the rivers from this area too :)

For now, we can forget about theories...
I have seen the videos...
and I have seen the fish in the rivers,,,
maybe it is time for going to the field to make observations. :lol:

Best wishes,
J_P

J_P,

all the LRL videos are true,i make them for scientific evidence,unfortunatly i cant explain to skeptics about the frequency or kind of a signal the PDK is receiving from buried gold.
The artificial process i made with silver mixed with salt ,this acelarate the buried metal to produce the Phenomenon very fast(2 years).

I also was a big skeptic too... lose time and experiments with many diferent LRL circuits, was frustrating.Some years ago i put in a thread that have found one gold nugget with the Alonso´s PD,this change my mind to become a LRL believer.And after that time i dedicate to study the PD. Now,after hard work,BIG sucess with PDK project.

not interested to give PDK-2 or PDK-3 schematic to others,the PDK-1 is already available,is very good for LRL beginners,they can build the project,its easy,and it works (big objects only).Aziz can study this one.

[Aziz]

It seems that all the LRL rats coming out from their holes and spreading bull$hit again!
:D

Now guys,
lets get the schematics.

I bet, it won't even pass the first raw look.

Again: Put up or shut up!
:D
Cheers,
Aziz

[J_Player]

It seems that all the LRL rats coming out from their holes and spreading bull$hit again!
:D

Now guys,
lets get the schematics.

I bet, it won't even pass the first raw look.

Again: Put up or shut up!
:D
Cheers,
AzizErrrr....

Wait a minute...
Are you saying that watching it work live in front of you is fake evidence?
Only reading the circuit schematic will tell you if it is beeping near long time buried gold?

:rotfl

We all know reading a schematic tells you nothing about beeping...
Hearing it beep tells you when it beeps... :rolleyes:

Is this a trick?


Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

you call me commercial scam naive with non-working LRL creations.
for me thats enough,double decision to not sell any PDK-2

;)

Hi Morgan, there is something wrong with your translator.

"We are only strong against commercial scam naive people with non-working LRL creations. As I believe you are."

"As I believe you are" mean that I believe that you are against commercial scam too. ("We are .... as I believe you are" - do you understand?)

This not mean that you are declared as scammer as you understand.

Please change translator.

[Aziz]

Is this a trick?


Absolutely not.
Trust me.
:D
Aziz

[Fred]

No, prisonist in wrong galaxy.No problem, mesy, send me your cassette player and I will make you schematic.

:lol: :lol:

BULL$HIT!LRL rats trying the bull$hit explanation V3.0 now.Bull$hit is bull$hit. You can not change bull$hit into gold or treasure.JP, can't you read? Stop talking bull$hit.

Tourette syndrome ?

What´s going on here? Full moon ?
Aziz, is that you ?

[Geo]

Does any Admin reads this thread???
He understands what i mean
:angry::angry::angry:

[Geo]

Morgan is one of the best LRL rats. He also spreads bull$hit.
And not to forget Geo.

Comeon guys, learn something valuable and don't spread the bull$hit.
Enough is enough!
Aziz

I do not allow to you, to speak about me:angry:.
Rather shows your behavior:( you and your level:(

[mesy64]

dear freinds
What 's your opinion about this detector ?
This circuit can help you with the waves emitted by the metals in the soil revealed??
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13365&stc=1&d=1285752244

[J_Player]

dear freinds
What 's your opinion about this detector ?
This circuit can help you with the waves emitted by the metals in the soil revealed??
No it cannot in my opinion.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

What a terrible waste of CA3130 and LM358! :frown:

[mesy64]

please help me:frown::frown::frown::frown::frown::frown:

[Aziz]

No it cannot in my opinion.

Best wishes,
J_P

Was it due to the first raw look?
:lol:
Oh man!, what a waste of parts.
Indeed.

Aziz

[Aziz]

I do not allow to you, to speak about me:angry:.
Rather shows your behavior:( you and your level:(

Same offer to you Geo,

you can proof your credibility by simply showing your schematics.
Do you have the balls to do it?
:D

Aziz

[mesy64]

dear freinds
Please visit and comment on this circuit.If you think this circuit is to find good things to help me build it....
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/vlf.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/vlf/preampdiag.gif
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/vlf/interior.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/vlf/preamp.jpg

[WM6]

you can proof your credibility by simply showing your schematics.



Aziz, experienced developer do not need schematic to finish his project. It is all intuitive.

[Qiaozhi]

Does any Admin reads this thread???
He understands what i mean
:angry::angry::angry:
Geo is correct ... please calm down.
You've all had your little rants, and now it's time to get back to technical discussions.

Morgan is not an LRL scammer, and he's only interested in investigating whether the LRL phenomenon is real or not. The same goes for most of the other people here. Yes, there are a few manufacturers of LRLs (and useless dowsing gadgets) who come here as well, but we all know who they are.

Please do not disguise abusive words with $ signs to get around the forum filters, as from now on I will remove any posts that do this.

Thank you for your cooperation ... The Management. stick:

[Morgan]

Geo is correct ... please calm down.
You've all had your little rants, and now it's time to get back to technical discussions.

Morgan is not an LRL scammer, and he's only interested in investigating whether the LRL phenomenon is real or not. The same goes for most of the other people here. Yes, there are a few manufacturers of LRLs (and useless dowsing gadgets) who come here as well, but we all know who they are.

Please do not disguise abusive words with $ signs to get around the forum filters, as from now on I will remove any posts that do this.

Thank you for your cooperation ... The Management. stick:

Thanks Qiaozhi

It is sad that one suposed inteligent forum member like Aziz start with this behavior...
There is OKM,MINEORO and many other LRL manufactures who deserve bad words becouse of their non working and expensive devices,but please,more respect to me ,Geo and Esteban,we are doing something that will be the future for TH´s,of course conventional metal detectors are good too,but a working LRL is the batle horse in the field.

Regards

[Aziz]

..now it's time to get back to technical discussions...


What?

A good advise indeed. Thanks Mr. Q.

Now LRL friends,
let flow all the schematics and we can technically discuss it.

So what are you measuring? And how are you measuring?
I hope, your all arguments won't blow up instantly.

Looking forward to the
harmonic energy EM wave flow now.
:D
Cheers,
Aziz

[WM6]

Now LRL friends,
let flow all the schematics and we can technically discuss it.



Great Aziz, now we can expect PC based LRL.

[Aziz]

Great Aziz, now we can expect PC based LRL.
No, I'll stick my scientific calculator into my control box.
:nerd:
It has everything what I need:
sin, cos, tan, acos, asin, atan, sqrt, x^y, log, ld, lg, e^x.....
µProcessor, keyboard, display
:super:

:D
Aziz

[satdaveuk]

dear freinds
Please visit and comment on this circuit.If you think this circuit is to find good things to help me build it....
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/vlf.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/vlf/preampdiag.gif
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/vlf/interior.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/vlf/preamp.jpg

hehe
That round circuit board reminds me of the old labgear mast head amps we used, there's a few still around working on peoples roof tops got to be 30 35 year old amazing really considering the wether etc, when removing the plastic side cap theres normally a family of spiders living in them due the warmth and shelter, a bit crampt though:razz:

[Qiaozhi]

... theres normally a family of spiders living in them due the warmth and shelter, a bit crampt though:razz:
Hmmm ... I wonder if that's what's happened to my security lights. Damn things keep turning on when they feel like it, and not when I want them to. :examine

[J_Player]

Hi,
I don't think it's FM at all, cause if you remember Esteban's "design" with the toroid and antenna frame+ tape head amplifier it's fully AM thing... cause tape head recorders do not modulate by freq the signal so it's just matter of AM detection and modulation I think, and that's also this way in the case of VHF range, cause over 100MHz the navaid and aircraft band uses narroband am transmission over the VHF carrier

also if we consider the 62KHz range there's no room for real FM in that bands and modulation is always AM kind, like happens with time signals

but maybe I'm wrong, Esteban knows...:rolleyes:

Kind regards
MaxHi Max,
I think you did not understand what I posted here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=137910&postcount=22

If you read again, you will see I don't believe the FM frequency has anything to do with the detection. The only reason he used FM frequency is because this is what he can easily find from a cheap pocket radio. Esteban knew he could pick up the 400 Hz switching noise and hear it on a cheap pocket FM radio, but not AM. His problem is there are too many music stations making music so it is hard to hear the 400 Hz noise. He solved this problem by bending one of the tuning coils to move the frequency higher than the FM stations will transmit. He did not care what frequency the FM was tuned as long as there is no broadcast to make music. He looked for a quiet frequency where no station was broadcasting so he could hear the 400 Hz noise from his oscillator. The only thing important for this pocket radio was it must be an antique design circuit which uses coils and transistors to tune the station, and it must be FM decoding. Cannot be AM. The VHF frequency and the pocket radio was not related to detecting anything in the ground. It was only an easy way to hear the noise from the audio oscillator he built. From what Esteban told us about this 400 Hz circurt, we know he says any detection of buried things was accomplished by the 400 Hz oscillator and coil and LEDs that he put in the circuit. According to him, this "change in audio sound" would happen whenever you point toward long time buried metal. Did not need any FM radio to make the change in sound. FM radio was only for a convenient way to hear the audio. For Esteban, it was easier to use an old FM radio than to build an audio amplifier and speaker into the 400 Hz circuit.

The other tape recorder amplifier and torroid circuits you are talking about are different machine completely than the 400 Hz circuit here.
Maybe these ones work with AM and VHF.
I never took a close look, but I can see they are not similar to the 400 Hz detector he built.

Also, notice he did not say that he was detecting VHF waves or VLF waves or any RF waves with the 400 Hz circuit.
What he did say is the change in this 400 Hz sound depends on the LEDs.
And he said that he could hear the sound only when he used FM demodulation to hear noise in the air when he put the FM receiver close to the 400 Hz oscillator.

Does this 400 Hz detector work?
I don't know. I never saw any demonstration to show it work -- I only read talk.
But it is not a hard circuit to build and find out if it works.
Very simple to probe the air near the detector and record images of the noise to see if it changes when you point it to a place with buried metal.

Best wishes,
J_P

[detectoman]

dear mesy 64 the lrl based in jfet transistor how circuit you us show, are very unstables, very dificoultous for stablize in tehory, but may be, this be good, but semm has parts old, big capacitors, old tegnic, idea basic, may be should result practice, for me no, btw jfet circuits are good for spacial captations or static, for begginers work whit jfet circuits be an risk of troubles, but jfet are great

[detectoman]

mesy, people tegnic in lightenings sparks have very much years in experience driving these sensible circuit based on jfet, be bad for begginers for can stabilize each step of these transistors, very brious, for experiment for lrls, is major the recorder sistem of estaban, whit any steps of own ideas amplification, steban only gave us the basic ideas for build easy lrl aparatus, whitouts circuits complex making by yourself, very easy ideas, too you can make an experiment whit simple multimeters digital or analogic, only put any winded coils, rods transoformer toroids radio ferrite o coils or aluminum loops in input of terminals, for lrl only is neccesary hig amplification very stablized, after of invention, raise the lrl experimental near of soil pendant of wire or hander whit much patiente, you should have an field of tries free of electrical lines of cities, whit distinct objectives noble metals, coins, rings, potes, buried ha time corroed

[Agraz]

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5692/magant.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/magant.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Cascading all the above tricks will probably give diminishing returns as the last tricks are done. Doing just one should give the greatest increase in gain. Adding another trick will give yet more gain, but not as much beyond what the first trick did, on average. There's only so much signal out there to be heard, anyway.
Improving signal to noise of an AM radio with ferrite rod antennas.

AM radio station signals are half magnetic and half electric fields. Noise tends to be mostly electric fields. Placing some electrostatic shielding around the antenna can improve signal to noise of radio station reception. A cardboard tube like the sort from a roll of toilet paper can be used as the basis of such a shielded antenna. Wrap aluminum or copper foil around the tube, but leave a gap as shown above. Otherwise you will have a shorted turn and that will give both magnetic and electric field shielding. And thus no reception! Connect the foil to an RF ground. Place the cardboard tube around the ferrite rod, positioning it over the area where the antenna coil is. Maintain at least a quarter inch (7mm) clearance to avoid excessive stray capacitance (which will impact the upper end of the band the most). Spacers like large rubber grommets could be used for this.
Expect to loose 6dB of signal, and hopefully more than 6dB of noise. You'll need to tweak the antenna trimmer to compensate for whatever stray capacitance was added by the shield. With the other tricks on this page, that signal loss shouldn't be a problem.
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/567/escanear0002v.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/escanear0002v.jpg/)

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[Geo]

Thanks Agraz:)