Bionic X4

[hung]

One of these days I was talking to OKM about implementing a scanning software in the BIonic 01 for ground visualization.
Recently a Bionic 01 was solely used to locate Inca gold artificats buried 4 meters deep and it would be good to visualize them before hand.
They told me it was not possible at this time due it's required local emission in the ground for this to work.

I know that yes, it's not only possible but it's already in use a system (hint, hint) where emissions are sent and received with a microwave configuration system to acomplish this.
Maybe they certainly would have problems with their local 'FCC' regarding 'ilegal emissions' and won't do it.

However it's nice to see that maybe they thought adding a GUI to a Bionic LRL would be cool after our talk. :lol: And the X4 was born. Nice idea employing the android with bluetooth.

Anyway, it's a pleasure to see LRL manufacturers goin on strong on evolving technologies to separate serious Thunters from comedians who enjoy using toy ordinary MDs to find pennies in their backyard.:D

Well since I will not remain here in cheap talking with the usual hollow headed skepthics, I hope this post serves serious hunters who hang around here just to read relevant news.

Enjoy.

http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/products/longrange/bionic-x4.php?lang=pt

PDF brochure

http://www.kooistra-detectors.com/attachment.php?id_attachment=34

PS. Frank Casser is really funny on video.

[Qiaozhi]

Anyway, it's a pleasure to see LRL manufacturers goin on strong on evolving technologies to separate serious Thunters from comedians who enjoy using toy ordinary MDs to find pennies in their backyard.:D

Well since I will not remain here in cheap talking with the usual hollow headed skepthics, I hope this post serves serious hunters who hang around here just to read relevant news.
Talking of comedians ... I see you've decided to return after a long absence. :razz:

And I notice instantly that nothing has changed. Still promoting useless non-working devices. Surely this video is just a joke (there's that humorous element again). It's just a pity they didn't spend as much effort creating a detector that really works, as they've obviously spent on creating their own version of Johnny English Reborn.
http://www.blockbuster.co.uk/product/rent-movies/browse/265016/johnny-english-reborn.htm

[WM6]

I hope this post serves serious hunters who hang around here just to read relevant news.



Do not worry, serious naive will never run out - as rogue traders like you too.

[goldfinder]

I kept looking for some kind of proof that the X4 was finding something - nada - zip zero - zilch = crap!
Really cool graphics and slick video. It would fool those who are fooled by glitz...
Goldfinder

[Qiaozhi]

I kept looking for some kind of proof that the X4 was finding something - nada - zip zero - zilch = crap!
Really cool graphics and slick video. It would fool those who are fooled by glitz...
Goldfinder
I think the gold nugget icon that occasionally flashed on the screen was supposed to indicate the presence of gold. There were also two lines that presumably point to the target. As you noticed, nothing was actually recovered. The whole thing was a bit of a farce. Hence my reference to Johnny English, which (by the way) looks worth watching when it's released.

[Mike(Mont)]

I wish OKM the best of luck with the new bionic. I kinda suspect the "4X" has something to do with the price tag. The original bionic was nearly ten grand$$$$.

[WM6]

I wish OKM the best of luck with the new bionic.



OKM itself recognise that it is a crook:

[Qiaozhi]

OKM itself recognise that it is a crook:
It's funny, because (although you know it really says "Bionic Scan"); if you stare at for a few seconds, the "n" seems to turn into an "m". :remember

It must be an optical illusion ... or something. ;)

[WM6]

It must be an optical illusion ... or something. ;)



No illusion, this is "original Bionic 4x" reality. Ask Mike(Mont).

[hung]

I wish OKM the best of luck with the new bionic. I kinda suspect the "4X" has something to do with the price tag. The original bionic was nearly ten grand$$$$.

The price is about 700 bucks higher than the B01.
But the bottomline is that high prices discourage people to open the box and mess around inside risking damaging the device.
If someday I were to sell my own built devices I would ask astonomical prices.:D

Anyway for what the B01 does for the current price of gold, in the first excursion finding only 1 KG of gold pays about 3 units already.

What turns hilarious is the fact that some 'skepthics' here seem to support a few homebrew LRL projects in this forum and curse the ones that are sold with high technology.:lol:
See ya around Mike.

[Qiaozhi]

Anyway for what the B01 does for the current price of gold, in the first excursion finding only 1 KG of gold pays about 3 units already.
That would be true if it was actually capable of finding anything to offset the initial wallet mining; which I very much doubt.

What turns hilarious is the fact that some 'skepthics' here seem to support a few homebrew LRL projects in this forum and curse the ones that are sold with high technology.:lol:
See ya around Mike.
If the addition of high technology added any benefit, there would be no problem. But, since the basic concept is flawed, the high technology stuff only adds to the final cost, and helps to fool the technically challenged.

[Morgan]

OKM itself recognise that it is a crook:

Oh yes ;)

[Morgan]

The price is about 700 bucks higher than the B01.
But the bottomline is that high prices discourage people to open the box and mess around inside risking damaging the device.
If someday I were to sell my own built devices I would ask astonomical prices.:D

Anyway for what the B01 does for the current price of gold, in the first excursion finding only 1 KG of gold pays about 3 units already.

What turns hilarious is the fact that some 'skepthics' here seem to support a few homebrew LRL projects in this forum and curse the ones that are sold with high technology.:lol:
See ya around Mike.


Not want to disturb OKM and your optimistic position on their side,but all BIONIC users are very sad with results,RESULTS are "O"

I have real working LRL´s and i´m in position to CHALLENGE MINEORO,OKM or OTHERS,becouse i´m sure this NEW BIONIC is the same crap as BIONIC 01,with some EXTRAS to atract the rich people,and they will buy for sure...this is pure marketing and deceiving people.

[WM6]

Not want to disturb OKM and your optimistic position on their side,but all BIONIC users are very sad with results,RESULTS are "O"

I have real working LRL´s and i´m in position to CHALLENGE MINEORO,OKM or OTHERS,becouse i´m sure this NEW BIONIC is the same crap as BIONIC 01,with some EXTRAS to atract the rich people,and they will buy for sure...this is pure marketing and deceiving people.



Go Morgan, maybe you are on right way.

[Mike(Mont)]

I'm certainly not defending OKM. I think their prices are obscene. At the same time I can't defend Morgan's logic that because someone has not found treasure means it doesn't work. This is skeptic logic and it's false. It might even be rooted in jealousy or even class warfare? Whether it works or not, I don't know and probably never will. Besides, the basic MFD type equipment works for me and many others and it costs about 20 times less.

I know we have been over this before, but there are too many reasons to list why treasures are not found. Equipment not working should not even be on the list. Assuming the treasure is there (very big assumption) and assuming the person has learned how to use the equipment (even bigger assumption) the very top of the list is site access or lack thereof. The get-rich-quick fever has to be up near the top of the list, too. People get hyper--even insane--and don't think clearly when they get so greedy. Yes, even metal detectorists can't use their metal detector. They start imagining the sounds are gold targets. And every treasure hunters motto should be "It's never as easy as it first appears."

Speaking of prices, I bought a metal detector cost over $600 thirty years ago. That's something like $2000 in todays dollars. Today you can buy one just as good for about $150. So I can easily conclude that I got scammed big time by a well respected metal detector company. Funny the sketpics who work for the MD companies use the same argument about LRL's.

[Morgan]

Go Morgan, maybe you are on right way.

I have LRL´s who work as LRL´s and I NEVER THINK TO ASK THIS THOUSANDS OF EUROS,IF SOMEONE WANT TO BUY ONE FROM ME,anyway i´m not interested to sell,and the few i have built need circuts and coils camuflage 100% becouse VERY EASY TO BUILD AND CLONAGE.I can sell only limited PDK´s for friends that i know WELL and to help them in TH´. About OKM,they are allways studing the best way to deceive the crazy and rich client,so,i invite OKM to came here to my field test,and if BIONIC works as LRL i will put public my apologise to them.
I wondering,how is possible people believe in the NONSENSE 15 KM for locating treasure with BIONIC ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono: :nono::nono:

[Morgan]

I have LRL´s who work as LRL´s and I NEVER THINK TO ASK THIS THOUSANDS OF EUROS,IF SOMEONE WANT TO BUY ONE FROM ME,anyway i´m not interested to sell,and the few i have built need circuts and coils camuflage 100% becouse VERY EASY TO BUILD AND CLONAGE.I can sell only limited PDK´s for friends that i know WELL and to help them in TH´. About OKM,they are allways studing the best way to deceive the crazy and rich client,so,i invite OKM to came here to my field test,and if BIONIC works as LRL i will put public my apologise to them.
I wondering,how is possible people believe in the NONSENSE 15 KM for locating treasure with BIONIC ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono: :nono::nono:

Inga said,BETTER SPEND THE MONEY IN A SECOD HAND MERCEDES...


16982

[Morgan]

The price is about 700 bucks higher than the B01.
But the bottomline is that high prices discourage people to open the box and mess around inside risking damaging the device.
If someday I were to sell my own built devices I would ask astonomical prices.:D

Anyway for what the B01 does for the current price of gold, in the first excursion finding only 1 KG of gold pays about 3 units already.

What turns hilarious is the fact that some 'skepthics' here seem to support a few homebrew LRL projects in this forum and curse the ones that are sold with high technology.:lol:
See ya around Mike.

Hung, i respect your atitude about MINEORO,yes in some conditions they can WORK as LRL´s, the proof for this is the PDK circuit,this amazing Passive Receiver ,i supose, start with Alonso and Damasio,so MINEORO in special atmosferic and ground conditions will work.
But the OKM is a FRAUD that i advertise you better not promote here,and if you PM me,i can give you phone nr of people who test BIONIC in field,in BAVARIA, GERMANY,"O" results in HOT places for TH´s. So,be more kind with people´s wallet ;)

[Funfinder]

Keep cool Morgan, don't waste your nerves! :razz:

When will this "substanceless" infotalk finally ends??
I hope soon, it's such a waste of time, it seeds aggressions and doesn't bring us any further to a proven real working long or at least medium range locator.

I'm pretty shure that OKM Bionic works somehow - yes - but the same unreliable as Mineoro devices.

But we have to find a way for a test procedure that is solid enough to win a trial.

Metal is metal and gold is no miracle and no wonder metal !!!

So it has to be possible that every kind of metal is detectable by OKM or Mineoro or whatever and if their Bionix x4 or any other such LRL claims it can find gold from a long distance first this device has to prove that it can find old rusty iron objects!

btw. what means "bionic"? quote from OKM: it uses the bio-engery of the user. WHAT??? This is totally nonsense or esoteric crap. It's like the claim that crystal clear quartz stones will purify the room and help against electro-smog.

btw. how much shall cost this new x4? 10.000 Euros?
This would be be robbery and fraud on a VERY high level if this unit doesn't find the claimed stuff and there has to be a way to test if it really works!

This is no crystal-ball used by a fortune-teller but reproducable electronical circuit in interaction with detectable signals (if it works).

And we will find a way to test this stuff - because this is very important, also for repeatable test sessions to improve the sensitivity and finding the needed adjustment methods.


Morgan, I hope your new 3-10 times better stimulation add-on is good enough for secure repeatable test sessions under variying conditions and you will find a way to make your PDK switchable to all kind of metals! Good luck and if you like we can work together "against" OKM until we know what's really going on with their LRLs.


Perhaps I will mail them in german and ask them how they want to secure me that their stuff is really working... If they think they can sell extremly overpriced stuff that nobody is able to control and proof how and if those are working indeed they have no idea how much possibilities I can find to get the whole truth about their LRLs! :rolleyes:

[Qiaozhi]

At the same time I can't defend Morgan's logic that because someone has not found treasure means it doesn't work. This is skeptic logic and it's false.
:rotfl
So what sort of logic is it then?
If it doesn't detect treasure, then the conclusion is that it doesn't work as advertised. They didn't even find anything in the promotional video. It was more of a mockery than a serious piece of work. How much more self deception can you stand?

Whether it works or not, I don't know and probably never will.
In that case you need to determine the facts first, before giving an opinion.

Speaking of prices, I bought a metal detector cost over $600 thirty years ago. That's something like $2000 in todays dollars. Today you can buy one just as good for about $150. So I can easily conclude that I got scammed big time by a well respected metal detector company. Funny the sketpics who work for the MD companies use the same argument about LRL's.
You were probably what's called an "early adopter". These are people who like to buy the latest technology, even though they have to pay a premium. The same piece of equipment is no being purchased by the "laggards", at a much lower price. This is called marketing, not scamming.

[Qiaozhi]

I'm pretty shure that OKM Bionic works somehow - yes - but the same unreliable as Mineoro devices.
How can you say you are sure it works? You've only seen a comical video, that looks like a James Bond parody.

btw. what means "bionic"? quote from OKM: it uses the bio-engery of the user. WHAT??? This is totally nonsense or esoteric crap. It's like the claim that crystal clear quartz stones will purify the room and help against electro-smog.
Now I'm confused. One moment you say "I'm pretty shure [sic] that OKM Bionic works", then you say "This is totally nonsense or esoteric crap.".
I know which one I think is correct. ;)

Perhaps I will mail them in german and ask them how they want to secure me that their stuff is really working... If they think they can sell extremly overpriced stuff that nobody is able to control and proof how and if those are working indeed they have no idea how much possibilities I can find to get the whole truth about their LRLs! :rolleyes:
Good luck with that!
I doubt you'll even get a response. Well ... not a sensible one anyway.

[Mike(Mont)]

:rotfl
So what sort of logic is it then?
If it doesn't detect treasure, then the conclusion is that it doesn't work as advertised. They didn't even find anything in the promotional video. It was more of a mockery than a serious piece of work. How much more self deception can you stand?


In that case you need to determine the facts first, before giving an opinion.


You were probably what's called an "early adopter". These are people who like to buy the latest technology, even though they have to pay a premium. The same piece of equipment is no being purchased by the "laggards", at a much lower price. This is called marketing, not scamming.

Faulty logic. It's called inductive reasoning. You take one peice of info and make baseless generalizations.

I don't know why I have to repeat, so I'll waste some more time and try to rephase for those with reading comprehension deficit. I bought a top-of-the-line metal detector. Many people say it works. Why am I not rich? I've spend hundreds of hours searching parks, old homes, you name it. I've done research, I've read many books on the subject, read internet forums from supposedly successful detectorists, but I'm still not rich. So if I use the skeptic logic I could easily conclude the metal detector DOES NOT WORK BECAUSE IT DOES NOT FIND TREASURE. I think all those people who claim to have found treasure are full of it. The are self delusional.

It's called marketing when it's a metal detector and it's called scamming when it's an LRL. That's more skeptic logic.

[WM6]

Faulty logic. It's called inductive reasoning. You take one peice of info and make baseless generalizations.

I don't know why I have to repeat, so I'll waste some more time and try to rephase for those with reading comprehension deficit. I bought a top-of-the-line metal detector. Many people say it works. Why am I not rich? I've spend hundreds of hours searching parks, old homes, you name it. I've done research, I've read many books on the subject, read internet forums from supposedly successful detectorists, but I'm still not rich. So if I use the skeptic logic I could easily conclude the metal detector DOES NOT WORK BECAUSE IT DOES NOT FIND TREASURE. I think all those people who claim to have found treasure are full of it. The are self delusional.

It's called marketing when it's a metal detector and it's called scamming when it's an LRL. That's more skeptic logic.

If you cannot find yourself in this definitions, then look for Fraud:

"Definitions of Scam on the Web:


A confidence trick, confidence game, or con for short (also known as a scam) is an attempt to intentionally mislead a person or persons (known as the mark) usually with the goal of financial or other gain. The confidence trickster, con man, scam artist or con artist often works with an accomplice called the shill, who tries to encourage the mark by pretending to believe the trickster. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scam (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=6&oi=define&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scam&usg=__kika6EffQp_NbxEJZimNRDIUPWg=)"
A ploy by a shyster to raise money.
www.nbmg.unr.edu/comstockscience/vocab1.shtml (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://www.nbmg.unr.edu/comstockscience/vocab1.shtml&usg=__UPTuNLA2YMVIrE3-0D7Q0jjmcYE=)
a fraudulent business scheme
victimize: deprive of by deceit; "He swindled me out of my inheritance"; "She defrauded the customers who trusted her"; "the cashier gypped me when he gave me too little change"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=4&oi=define&q=http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%3Fs%3Dscam&usg=__XmGO9SZiZitMomRzob9WFI3xkUE=)

[J_Player]

Faulty logic. It's called inductive reasoning. You take one peice of info and make baseless generalizations.

I don't know why I have to repeat, so I'll waste some more time and try to rephase for those with reading comprehension deficit. I bought a top-of-the-line metal detector. Many people say it works. Why am I not rich? I've spend hundreds of hours searching parks, old homes, you name it. I've done research, I've read many books on the subject, read internet forums from supposedly successful detectorists, but I'm still not rich. So if I use the skeptic logic I could easily conclude the metal detector DOES NOT WORK BECAUSE IT DOES NOT FIND TREASURE. I think all those people who claim to have found treasure are full of it. The are self delusional.

It's called marketing when it's a metal detector and it's called scamming when it's an LRL. That's more skeptic logic.Wait a minute... Maybe Mike has something here.

From what Mike explained...
When using skeptic logic we can conclude that metal detectors do not work because they do not find treasure.
And metal detectors are therefore a scam.
Any attempt to pretend metal detectors are not a scam is skeptic's logic.

Yup now we know how correct and faulty logic works.
But wait...

Let's check to make sure we got the facts right.
Let's look in some treasure forums to see how treasures are found.

Google shows Find's treasure forum at the top of the list. http://www.findmall.com/
Hmmm... Find's treasure forum has 28 sections that show recoveries made when using popular conventional metal detectors.
I don't see any sections showing recoveries made by dowsing or LRLs here.

It seems like everyone at Find's forum is talking about and posting photos of the treasures they found with their metal detectors.
Dang, there's thousands of photos of treasures they found with metal detectors, and more keep coming.
I wonder if findmall is a skeptic scam site? :shocked:

Hmmm... maybe we should go down the google list to other treasure hunter forums.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/
http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/
http://www.treasurehunterforum.net/
http://www.treasurequestxlt.com/community/
http://www.mytreasurespot.com/

It seems every one of these treasure forums is full of photos of treasures people found with metal detectors.
This does not look like one piece of baseless information. It looks more like thousands of forum posts showing photos of treasure recovered.
Maybe Mike Mont's facts are wrong.
Is it possible that Mike did not find any treasure with his metal detector because he doesn't know how? :rolleyes:

Very puzzling, this logic stuff...


Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

It's a true statement to say a metal detector does not find treasure, does not find gold. There is no metal detector made that can find gold. They can detect metal if within a few inches of it.

Most every metal detecer ever made is sitting in a closet somewhere collecting dust because the owner was deluded into believing they could get rich with it. Just look at the deceptive advertising. Very few (if any) people in the entire world can make better than minimum wage with a metal detector on a regular basis. The advertising doesn't tell you this.

Metal detectors will hurt you. Anyone who uses one on long term is probably suffering from joint problems. Knees are a bad one, but shoulders, wrists, back, you name it just about every joint in the human body suffers. In the end a person is going to give all the money they ever found to doctors and hospitals to repair the damage done. The advertising doesn't tell you this.

As for cache hunting with an LRL, let's face it nearly everyone who owns one is a cache hunter. Just by it's nature, cache hunting is few and far between finds. As I said there are too many reasons to list. And anyone who divulges what they found is a fool, fool, fool.

"Dream like you live forever. Live like you die today."

[Qiaozhi]

Why am I not rich? I've spend hundreds of hours searching parks, old homes, you name it. I've done research, I've read many books on the subject, read internet forums from supposedly successful detectorists, but I'm still not rich. So if I use the skeptic logic I could easily conclude the metal detector DOES NOT WORK BECAUSE IT DOES NOT FIND TREASURE. I think all those people who claim to have found treasure are full of it. The are self delusional.
Maybe it's because you've spent too much time with your dowsing contraption, and not enough time with the metal detector. If the dowsing stuff really worked, you wouldn't be saying, "Why am I not rich?".

Google shows Find's treasure forum at the top of the list. http://www.findmall.com/
Hmmm... Find's treasure forum has 28 sections that show recoveries made when using popular conventional metal detectors.
I don't see any sections showing recoveries made by dowsing or LRLs here.
That's because there aren't any. And is also the reason why Mike (Mont) is not rich. :money

[Mike(Mont)]

This has turned into a skeptic circle jerk. Typical pseudo-skeptic logic. Anyone here really think these skeptics are sincere? They are not. They don't have a leg to stand on. This whole pseudo-skeptic thing is all bogus folks--every word of it.

I posted the link http://debunkingskeptics.com/Page1.htm

I suggest EVERYONE read this. Of course the skeptics won't because they are afraid to look in the mirror. Reminds me what an alcoholic told me, "It's hard to shave the morning after when you can't look at yourself in the mirror."

[Geo]

Maybe it's because you've spent too much time with your dowsing contraption, and not enough time with the metal detector. If the dowsing stuff really worked, you wouldn't be saying, "Why am I not rich?".
:money

Now what are you say?????:rotfl:wall
The same says and any user of a metal detector so this means that metal detectors don't work?????
Calm......:)

[hung]

C'mon Mike, there are some cheap metal detectors that are the joy of the ladies in the house.
The viper model looks hot.

Gold Metal Detectors (http://www.nextag.com/floor-polisher/compare-html)

[Qiaozhi]

Now what are you say?????:rotfl:wall
The same says and any user of a metal detector so this means that metal detectors don't work?????
Calm......:)
You misunderstand me. Mike (Mont) was saying he has spent hundreds of hours searching parks, old homes, etc., [with a metal detector]. But he still is not rich. My comment was simply to point out that (despite promoting LRs and dowsing) the situation had not changed.

By the way, the majority of metal detectorists will never get rich. But then, neither will dowsers. ;)

[J_Player]

This has turned into a skeptic circle jerk. Typical pseudo-skeptic logic. Anyone here really think these skeptics are sincere? They are not. They don't have a leg to stand on. This whole pseudo-skeptic thing is all bogus folks--every word of it... Not sincere? What?
Tell that to thousands of metal detectorists who show all the treasures they found at these forums:

http://www.findmall.com/
http://forum.treasurenet.com/
http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/
http://www.treasurehunterforum.net/
http://www.treasurequestxlt.com/community/
http://www.mytreasurespot.com/

Go ahead... make follow-up forum posts every time you see detectorists posting photos of recoveries they say they made in those forums... tell them they are showing fake jewelry recoveries and other bogus treasures. I am sure you can expose this big skeptic fraud so everyone stops wasting their hard-earned dollars on a metal detector. :rolleyes:


Question: What's easier to believe?

1. Thousands of photos showing stuff recovered with metal detectors are mostly fake scam photos and lies, and only Mike(Mont) and hung are right in saying metal detectors are not a good method to find treasures.

Or...

2. Thousands of photos showing stuff recovered with metal detectors are mostly true recoveries and Mike(Mont) is attempting to blame his poverty on metal detector companies.

:???:


Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

The bla and bla and bla goes on and on and on...:barf:

I say it now for the last time:

This is a criminalistic case and we have to work professional to find the correct answers and not this childish assumptions, rumors, hear'n say and argumenting without well know informations!


.

Why I think the OKM Bionic works somehow?

(btw. I have not seen their video so far)

Well, this has something to do with criminalistic sense:

OKM is an electronic engineering company that produces and sells other (for shure working!) detectors, too and since 5 years it has improved the Bionic.

You can't claim out of nothing that the only reason of their business is to cheat and rob their customers. It is simply not the type how to get a good criminal business if they really would intend this.

And furthermore I'm pretty shure those OKM and Mineoro detectors are based on the same basic-circuits or detection system.


Of course this has nothing to do with "esoteric bionic bio energy", with chakra or chi energy, with blood temperature or strange "soul forces", aura or psycho-kinetic powers.

It was stupid OKM choose the name "Bionic" for those detectors because this already implies some esoterical background like it is with pendulum or dowsing rod.



Why I think I get a response from them?

Very simple - because I have some influence in the german speaking treasure hunting area and OKM can't afford bad publicity. And they don't wanna lose me as a potential interested customer.

Of course I doubt they could tell me any really convincing just by e-mail. However I could threaten them with the justice if they sell stuff that doesn't proven works. I'm already curious how they wanna convince me this stuff will really detects what they claim.

One first method could be finding out what OKM is using to test and improve those Bionics. Because they must test (quality check) it before selling so they are shure the device was sold in functioning state.



btw. we have to see to buried treasures from an other angle of view:

In fact metal objects are floating in a space of different kind of radiation!

Our usual MDs creates a very strong EM field that makes detection "somehow very simple" because of the very strong interaction pattern.

But the metal object is interacting also without any additional MD VLF transceiver:

There are the earth magnetical field lines and the vertical electrostatic force. Additional any metal objects, no matter if buried or not, attracts or reflects electromagnetical radiation.

And as Mr. and Ms. Curie have shown, radium becomes lead and loses weight after long enough sending out EM radiation aka electrons/photons.

I mention this because shure it could be possible that buried metal interacts with the natural EM-fields by creating special detectable patterns, resonance or whatever.

What Morgans experiments show so far is the following:
The buried metal first has to built up some kind of "soil-battery" by using electrolytic salts and minerals.

We have to find out how strong such electrical-areas interact with natural or artificial long wave radiation and how this for every electronical somehow experienced person easy understandable circuit really works! Is this so complicated? I think not! And finding out if the Bionic works or not is completly childsplay!

Create or find working test object, switch it on and see if it's detectable!

A metal detector has to find over and over again the hidden target and the same applies to Mineoro or OKM.

If they are unable even for this stupid simple stuff and if they are unable to provide a real testable testing object available they have failed and will have the consequences!

[J_Player]

The bla and bla and bla goes on and on and on...:barf:

I say it now for the last time:

This is a criminalistic case and we have to work professional to find the correct answers and not this childish assumptions, rumors, hear'n say and argumenting without well know informations!




Why I think the OKM Bionic works somehow?

(btw. I have not seen their video so far)

Well, this has something to do with criminalistic sense:

OKM is an electronic engineering company that produces and sells other (for shure working!) detectors, too and since 5 years it has improved the Bionic.

You can't claim out of nothing that the only reason of their business is to cheat and rob their customers. It is simply not the type how to get a good criminal business if they really would intend this.

And furthermore I'm pretty shure those OKM and Mineoro detectors are based on the same basic-circuits or detection system.


Of course this has nothing to do with "esoteric bionic bio energy", with chakra or chi energy, with blood temperature or strange "soul forces", aura or psycho-kinetic powers.

It was stupid OKM choose the name "Bionic" for those detectors because this already implies some esoterical background like it is with pendulum or dowsing rod.



Why I think I get a response from them?

Very simple - because I have some influence in the german speaking treasure hunting area and OKM can't afford bad publicity. And they don't wanna lose me as a potential interested customer.

Of course I doubt they could tell me any really convincing just by e-mail. However I could threaten them with the justice if they sell stuff that doesn't proven works. I'm already curious how they wanna convince me this stuff will really detects what they claim.

One first method could be finding out what OKM is using to test and improve those Bionics. Because they must test (quality check) it before selling so they are shure the device was sold in functioning state.



btw. we have to see to buried treasures from an other angle of view:

In fact metal objects are floating in a space of different kind of radiation!

Our usual MDs creates a very strong EM field that makes detection "somehow very simple" because of the very strong interaction pattern.

But the metal object is interacting also without any additional MD VLF transceiver:

There are the earth magnetical field lines and the vertical electrostatic force. Additional any metal objects, no matter if buried or not, attracts or reflects electromagnetical radiation.

And as Mr. and Ms. Curie have shown, radium becomes lead and loses weight after long enough sending out EM radiation aka electrons/photons.

I mention this because shure it could be possible that buried metal interacts with the natural EM-fields by creating special detectable patterns, resonance or whatever.

What Morgans experiments show so far is the following:
The buried metal first has to built up some kind of "soil-battery" by using electrolytic salts and minerals.

We have to find out how strong such electrical-areas interact with natural or artificial long wave radiation and how this for every electronical somehow experienced person easy understandable circuit really works! Is this so complicated? I think not! And finding out if the Bionic works or not is completly childsplay!

Create or find working test object, switch it on and see if it's detectable!

A metal detector has to find over and over again the hidden target and the same applies to Mineoro or OKM.

If they are unable even for this stupid simple stuff and if they are unable to provide a real testable testing object available they have failed and will have the consequences!You are wrong again.
We don't have to find out anything about Bionic or any other machine that is claimed to find treasure.
The company who makes these machines has to convince us.
And Bionic didn't convince anyone yet except a few foolish people and some retards.
If you think you need to know for sure that it does not work, then why not go buy one and prove it to yourself?
Why do you expect us to prove it when we already saw the results of the Bionic scams?

Second, Morgan showed nothing about soil batteries and mineral salts.
He showed only videos of his machines beeping when he moved them over certain grounds, and some of his circuits beeping and causing LEDs to light when metal things were near.
If you really think he showed us mineral salt chemistry, then prove it.
I would like to see some reference where he demonstrated salts or batteries formed in the ground.

If you can't prove what you are talking about, then maybe it is a good idea to stop making silly comments that
are not based in fact, and are simply your own presumptions and embellishments that you add to what others are doing.


Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

It's called marketing when it's a metal detector and it's called scamming when it's an LRL. That's more skeptic logic.



Where did you read MD marketing claims about kilometers of detecting distance, as usual in LRL scamming claims?

Sceptic do not need to prove that MD works as claimed, this is evidenced by LRL believers itself, who, without the use of MD, can not find anything.

So we can speak only about "more LRL believers anti-logic".

[Morgan]

The bla and bla and bla goes on and on and on...:barf:

I say it now for the last time:

This is a criminalistic case and we have to work professional to find the correct answers and not this childish assumptions, rumors, hear'n say and argumenting without well know informations!




Why I think the OKM Bionic works somehow?

(btw. I have not seen their video so far)

Well, this has something to do with criminalistic sense:

OKM is an electronic engineering company that produces and sells other (for shure working!) detectors, too and since 5 years it has improved the Bionic.

You can't claim out of nothing that the only reason of their business is to cheat and rob their customers. It is simply not the type how to get a good criminal business if they really would intend this.

And furthermore I'm pretty shure those OKM and Mineoro detectors are based on the same basic-circuits or detection system.


Of course this has nothing to do with "esoteric bionic bio energy", with chakra or chi energy, with blood temperature or strange "soul forces", aura or psycho-kinetic powers.

It was stupid OKM choose the name "Bionic" for those detectors because this already implies some esoterical background like it is with pendulum or dowsing rod.



Why I think I get a response from them?

Very simple - because I have some influence in the german speaking treasure hunting area and OKM can't afford bad publicity. And they don't wanna lose me as a potential interested customer.

Of course I doubt they could tell me any really convincing just by e-mail. However I could threaten them with the justice if they sell stuff that doesn't proven works. I'm already curious how they wanna convince me this stuff will really detects what they claim.

One first method could be finding out what OKM is using to test and improve those Bionics. Because they must test (quality check) it before selling so they are shure the device was sold in functioning state.



btw. we have to see to buried treasures from an other angle of view:

In fact metal objects are floating in a space of different kind of radiation!

Our usual MDs creates a very strong EM field that makes detection "somehow very simple" because of the very strong interaction pattern.

But the metal object is interacting also without any additional MD VLF transceiver:

There are the earth magnetical field lines and the vertical electrostatic force. Additional any metal objects, no matter if buried or not, attracts or reflects electromagnetical radiation.

And as Mr. and Ms. Curie have shown, radium becomes lead and loses weight after long enough sending out EM radiation aka electrons/photons.

I mention this because shure it could be possible that buried metal interacts with the natural EM-fields by creating special detectable patterns, resonance or whatever.

What Morgans experiments show so far is the following:
The buried metal first has to built up some kind of "soil-battery" by using electrolytic salts and minerals.

We have to find out how strong such electrical-areas interact with natural or artificial long wave radiation and how this for every electronical somehow experienced person easy understandable circuit really works! Is this so complicated? I think not! And finding out if the Bionic works or not is completly childsplay!

Create or find working test object, switch it on and see if it's detectable!

A metal detector has to find over and over again the hidden target and the same applies to Mineoro or OKM.

If they are unable even for this stupid simple stuff and if they are unable to provide a real testable testing object available they have failed and will have the consequences!

I have my FIELD TEST ,you can bring the BIONIC models to make a test...

[Morgan]

You are wrong again.
We don't have to find out anything about Bionic or any other machine that is claimed to find treasure.
The company who makes these machines has to convince us.
And Bionic didn't convince anyone yet except a few foolish people and some retards.
If you think you need to know for sure that it does not work, then why not go buy one and prove it to yourself?
Why do you expect us to prove it when we already saw the results of the Bionic scams?

Second, Morgan showed nothing about soil batteries and mineral salts.
He showed only videos of his machines beeping when he moved them over certain grounds, and some of his circuits beeping and causing LEDs to light when metal things were near.
If you really think he showed us mineral salt chemistry, then prove it.
I would like to see some reference where he demonstrated salts or batteries formed in the ground.

If you can't prove what you are talking about, then maybe it is a good idea to stop making silly comments that
are not based in fact, and are simply your own presumptions and embellishments that you add to what others are doing.


Best wishes,
J_P

The salt mixed with gold or silver acelerate the PHENOMENON process.

You dont need to believe that LRL PDK works,you are free to express your opinions.

[J_Player]

The salt mixed with gold or silver acelerate the PHENOMENON process.

You dont need to believe that LRL PDK works,you are free to express your opinions.Hi Morgan,
I can believe that salt mixed with the gold or silver alloys will accelerate their dissolving into the soil as you say.
But this is not what you showed in your experiments.
You showed your machines beeping when they were moved over certain grounds, and you showed them beep and LEDs turn on when they were near metal.

Why would you care what I believe?
I never claimed that I don't believe your explanations of finding treasure with your pistols.
Maybe you forget it was Geo who had trouble believing until after he saw with his own eyes.
In any case it does not matter if people believe or not.
Believing only matters to manufacturers like OKM who want people to send them money.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

Some persons confuse entertainment with scientific work.

They like fairytale and fantasy-movies, unreal action and stupid Music lyrics more than the reality, more than making themself serious thoughts about the reality.

How it comes last year no one here defended or helped me against the stupid "just beat everything down" s**t-talk of WM6 against the Jeohunter?

Because no one here has had any real information, any clue! :angry:

And the same applies to the whole LRL topics!

This is a very evil kind of aggressive information gathering:
1st someone has prooven defend what he claims if he wanna gets accepted by those stubborn and absolutly uninformed sceptics.

From their position they think they have the right acting with such attacking methods, because they don't wanna get fooled. But they oversee, that their reservated, ignorant and arrogant positition won't help anyone.


Perhaps this is the revenge for formerly not as they should working LRLs or for in deed evil scam, betraying and deceiving information.

But it won't help us getting to the bottom of true information.


J_Player, why you don't sue OKM and Mineoro if you so 100% shure those are liars, scammers, fraudsters and very evil crap-sellers?

It's your duty as a law- and justice loving member of the society that doesn't want to get fooled and ripped off by bad companies!

Or you can accuse the whole country because they allow such companies like Mineoro or OKM to sell their "evil stuff".


If you don't like to do this, you have to cope with the actual situation and should try to find the truth with working methods and not just by the over and over same claims.

And all those who are already working or experimenting with LRL prototypes or homebrew circuits have to help to clear the situation, to find out what's exactly is going on and should acting as professional as possible for making technical issues reprovable, understandable and convincible for everyone.


We don't need "hyper fantastic claims" and also no denials of all and everything!

[Geo]

Hi Funfinder.
I think that J_P is a good sceptic and parallel a LRL lover. Very simple he don't like to "eat" every LRL distributed on the market.At the same time I want to congratulate you for the courage to express your posts:clap:clap

Regards:)

[Funfinder]

Thanx Geo and wish you and Andreas most good luck (of course Morgan, too!) in developing the for the moment best possible "special detectors". :)

[Morgan]

Thanx Geo and wish you and Andreas most good luck (of course Morgan, too!) in developing the for the moment best possible "special detectors". :)

Thanks,i already have very good LRL´s

Here one PDK 2 at work

17028

[Morgan]

Thanx Geo and wish you and Andreas most good luck (of course Morgan, too!) in developing the for the moment best possible "special detectors". :)

many people ask me to sell PDK 2,but i dont know the intentions,if is only for treasure hunting or copy CLONAGE...

[Morgan]

many people ask me to sell PDK 2,but i dont know the intentions,if is only for treasure hunting or copy CLONAGE...

to copy and make clones is the big problem

[kt315]

:D

[wam]

Europe is a place of law. It is illegal to sell a product which does not work.
So far customers do not sue OKM and there was no prosecution because LRL are working according to the specification. Every buyer can check his complains with the lawyer. Just ask any lawyer to read product instruction and verify if information is true. The case is that manual not clearly states that LRL does not work as a Long Rang Locator. Long Range Locator is not a product specification, it is a name of the product. If you read instruction carefully, you can find that long range location/detection is not a product functionality. This product is to deliver entertainment for recreational activities and this is what you pay for, law does not protect people who do not want to check what they pay for.
Regards,

[Geo]

Thanx Geo and wish you and Andreas most good luck (of course Morgan, too!) in developing the for the moment best possible "special detectors". :)

Thank you
Although it is difficult to display details from my LRL there are two basic problems which prevent us to work and study in depth the LRL.
One is that there are many people who read the forums and are ready to seize every idea and develop a clone on the market
The other is the ironic criticism done by some "know all" skeptics.
So we try slowly-slowly alone

Regards:)

[Geo]

This product is to deliver entertainment for recreational activities and this is what you pay for
Regards,

So OKM ask 10000 Euro only as recreational activities?????:wall:wall

[wam]

Hi, I do not claim that LRL is bad idea, I have one for my self. I can call it LRL because it locate metal object size about 1.5m from 50m away each time and every time, so no bionic woodo but electronics phisics and maths. If I can do it so others can as well. Just tell what is your target sample, what range of detection and what probability of detection for this range.Is it to much to ask? Can you say that Your LRL detects metal box from 20 m every time? My LRL can detect coin underground from 10cm every time.
Do not get upset, :)

[J_Player]

Europe is a place of law. It is illegal to sell a product which does not work.
So far customers do not sue OKM and there was no prosecution because LRL are working according to the specification. Every buyer can check his complains with the lawyer. Just ask any lawyer to read product instruction and verify if information is true. The case is that manual not clearly states that LRL does not work as a Long Rang Locator. Long Range Locator is not a product specification, it is a name of the product. If you read instruction carefully, you can find that long range location/detection is not a product functionality. This product is to deliver entertainment for recreational activities and this is what you pay for, law does not protect people who do not want to check what they pay for.

....I do not claim that LRL is bad idea, I have one for my self. I can call it LRL because it locate metal object size about 1.5m from 50m away each time and every time, so no bionic woodo but electronics phisics and maths. If I can do it so others can as well. Just tell what is your target sample, what range of detection and what probability of detection for this range.Is it to much to ask? Can you say that Your LRL detects metal box from 20 m every time? My LRL can detect coin underground from 10cm every time.
Do not get upset, :)This is exactly correct.
I have found no LRL manufacturer who makes claims that their equipment will locate gold item at long distance. They only imply that they can find gold at long distance. In the case of the Bionic X4, we can read on their web page under the General Description and we will find nowhere that they claim it will find gold objects at a long distance. http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/products/longrange/bionic-x4.php?lang=en
The closest they come is to say:
"By using the Bionic X4 you can locate the place where a high probability of gold may be buried under the ground".

What does that mean in a court?

Does it guarantee finding treasure?
No. That is not what they claimed. Their claim was about probability of buried gold.
You have no basis to sue anyone if you don't actually recover gold.

So what is the science and math in OKM products?
According to people who have taken them apart, they are cheap magnetometers arranged as a directional gradiometer, and an ion chamber similar to the hobby chambers made from small metal parts. Then electronics are added to cause displays to beep and show text. While OKM claims the ion chamber detects radiated ions from long time buried things, it is doubtful this is possible from a coin-sized object at long distance. We are left with a magnetometer to locate things at more than a few inches, and the ion detector to add confusion to the circuit if there are no ions being collected from nearby ion sources.

The magnetometers begin to give us a clue to what these products can do. We know if you have a large enough non-ferrous object buried in the ground, it can displace the natural magnetic field enough to make it detectable as void detecting. Geologists often map large objects which they find when using magnetometers. But what about the usual treasure hunt where there is no chunk of gold 1.5 meters buried in the ground? Maybe the buried treasure is a small gold coin... Then your magnetometer will not detect it unless you move very close.
Is this beginning to sound familiar?

Read what is claimed for the X4 on the OKM web page:
The main applications of this gold long range detector are:

Detection of natural gold, i.e. gold nuggets, gold dust, gold veins, alluvial gold or gold ore in hard rock and quartz
Detection of buried gold, i.e. gold jewelry, gold statues, gold rings, gold coins or gold bars (gold bullions)


They do not say these things are detected at long distance. They only say these are the main applications. If you detect a 20-ton gold deposit in the ground the same as a magnetometer can detect from some distance, then this would be evidence that the X4 is used in the detection of gold in this application. If you detected a gold coin buried 1 cm deep in iron-rich soil from a distance of a few cm, this would be evidence it is used in the detection of a gold coin in this application.

Can a $200 magnetometer also perform in this manner?
I think so if it is wired as a gradiometer and configured to be directional.
But I think you could get better results if you used more expensive magnetometer sensors than the $25 fluxgate parts that OKM uses.

A more important question is "can this technology help anyone find treasure"?
Of course it can. If magnetometers did not help to locate buried things then geologists would not use them. However, they are seldom used by treasure hunters except in cases where magnetometer readings are appropriate, such as finding a void or a very large buried object or mapping ruins. I cannot imagine anyone using one to find a buried coin. You could find the buried coins and jewelry much easier using a metal detector. Even large meteorites are hunted with very expensive PI metal detectors by meteorite hunters, rather than using a magnetometer to find them.

As we see, OKM has not made a false claim. There is no reason to sue them for anything since they stopped making false claims in their literature some years ago. If anyone thinks these are guaranteed to find treasure, then the problem is because they failed to read what is claimed. :nono:

But what about results we hear from treasure hunters?
Empty holes and a lot of false detection is the result that nearly everyone reports who has used OKM products. They also report that the OKM does not detect gold which they later recover using other gold detecting tools. Anyone can easily verify this by checking with Morgan or reading the forum posts here in the remote sensing forum or in the geophysics forum. The only credible reports I read of OKM locators working well is when they detect large voids like a cheap gradiometer does.

We saw the inside of some of the OKM products, which confirm that they are cheap magnetometers just as the people who used them described. The actual claims I read on the OKM page for this Bionic X4 is that it is interfaced to smart phones. This tells me they added more electronic interface to make pictures on a mobile phone from the same cheap magnetometer crap. Then we see their video showing absolutely nothing except some guy wandering around with an X4 in his hand and music in the background. Does this convince you that these are good treasure hunting tools that you need to pay more than $10,000 for?

If anyone wants to buy one of these after reading our forums and the manufacturer's description and watching their video, maybe they really are rich, and they don't want some $200 magnetometer that does not make pictures on their smart phone. Maybe the cool pistol shape with the mobile phone showing images can make them happy and help to instill a sense of prestige. I wonder if we will ever see some treasure recoveries they make when using OKM products? :rolleyes:

Let's look through some forum posts to see what people here reported about their experience with the OKM products:

Originally posted by Carl-NC here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43757&postcount=6
"I tend to agree about OKM's reputation... I've heard a lot of complaints about them, at least on the forums. Is that the company that advertised a device as being a GPR, when it was really a magnetometer? Now that's something you can get sued over".

Originally posted by BigBang here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131235&postcount=2
OKM 4000 or 5000 are only named GPR for easy commercial . Because of profit expectaions . But not real GPR :nono:

Originally posted by schatzsucher here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=38572&postcount=1
Inside you find magnetic field sensors and an radar sensor KMY 10. The radar sensor cannot goes in to the earth. Not with this frequency, but the firm sell the system as GPR.

Originally posted by Morgan here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112348&postcount=44
"So,it was this man Manolo´s friend,who want to convince people that OKM lrl works...
This is realy BIG SCAM,this piece of crap is useles and cost IO.OOO EURO.
OKM people should be shame,and this LRL agent in Italy also !!!"

Originally posted by bulsack here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100931&postcount=1
OKM is a low grade magnetometer with software that creates some fancy worthless pictures.

Originally posted by Jim here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112268&postcount=32
"I think the video with the operator dropping the ring on a rope onto the ground after they turn over the lump of dirt shows intentions of fraud".

Originally posted by Great Alex here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=82553&postcount=10
the OKM products are over price and they don't work as they advertised by the OKM company , but they work even as a low quality magnetometer .

Originally posted by hung here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43745&postcount=2
'Reputable' and 'credibility' are not the best terms to describe them.
They are being charged and sued by Mineoro for trying to copy their trademark names, products and concepts.
Besides that, mineorogreece took them to court sometime ago for a product which did not work as advertised. He got his money back.
How's that for a start?

Originally posted by Congogold here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=132007&postcount=32
...My scans show orange in almost every scan anywhere I scan- obviously I can't be seeing gold everywhere and i can't dig everywhere.
I have reads the manual many times and still can't tell the difference between gold and heavy mineralization or ferrous metals! It is driving me crazy...
I am in prime gold country- i buy plenty from artisanal miners who find their gold the old way- I can't seem to get results with the technology at all.

Originally posted by valchev here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=55004&postcount=107
If You find money for GPR do not buy from OKM. OKM do not produce real GPR, onely advertisements and useless machines.

ivconic's photos show inside of crappy OKM future 2003/5 here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=80373&highlight=OKM#post80373

Originally posted by Infamy here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112813&postcount=75
"How many hoards can you name that have been found with lrl-s h i t? "

Originally posted by ishtar hunter here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131232&postcount=1
worked 14 years with many devices But neither performance was not good for depths up.
I have exp4000 (okm) but Performance is not good. :frown:

Originally posted by aban here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115013&postcount=5
donot buy okm machin it cannot detect in deep and it is fruad only.

Originally posted by Alexismex here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=101735&postcount=12
Also here in Mexico I have friends you bought this piece of crap junks from OKM....This Cassbiz it is another seller from OKM....we have found many treasures !!!!ah ah ah....
and do not trust OKM people to give back your money they are bandits ...bandidos...de vrais crapules

Originally posted by bulsack here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100985&postcount=3
Let's say somebody is to build the $150 magnetometer featured on this website ,hookes it up to a free or cracked 3D program. How would it be different than the OKM that costs as much as a brand new Mercedes-Benz?

Originally posted by Christian here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=44347&postcount=6
From what I have been reading on the various internet boards for years now, nobody who has ever bought this unit has made any reasonable findings. Infact I think that the Fluxgate project to be found on this website is much better engineered and operating then any OKM device.

Originally posted by ivconic here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=105112&postcount=26
:lol::lol::lol:
It is true! That's why this forum is so great - saves your money!

Make EPE gradiometer and you will have nice and interesting device that you can use and understand it's wotking principles.
And all that for small money.
Basically EPE ($150) is very simillar to OKM Gems (4200 euros !!! :angry:)

Originally posted by Astrodetect here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=102428&postcount=17
Would you like to see what sensor is in the Rover C unit?
Check it out and see for yourself.
So Mr Frank please explain how your unit is functioning and what exactly does it detect? We all know that this sensor will only detect ferrite metals and voids.


Here is what's Astrodetect showed us is really inside bionic products.... a cheap Honewell fluxgate magnetometer:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10971&stc=1&d=1264434002

Here is a sequence of photos from one of the OKM scam demonstrations where they showed it beeping at a shovel:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10799&stc=1&d=1262995949


So far nobody has made a live demonstration of OKM products recovering gold from places where they didn't know where the gold is.
But we have read the reports where it failed to find gold on real treasure hunts which was later recovered from places the Bionic products could not detect it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Very good analysed J_P, thanks.

[Funfinder]

Very good analysed J_P, thanks.

Not very good, but good and not good enough.

User-opinions have nothing to do with scientifical proofen tests.

Look at the large product selection on the OKM page.
All those around 15 detectors are scam, don't work??? :lol:

The huge price may be a bad joke but those display-driven "GPR" (radar waves are bad reflectable within soil) or gradiometer detectors are new generation and they have very high sensitivity.

So what do we have here?
A company that want's to ruin its reputation concerning his working detectors with some bad Bionic fraud objects? You really think this?

How often shall I repeat it that there are already real working LRLs but this stuff works very unreliable and the Bionic X4 will be no difference.

And for shure everyone can sue OKM if this Bionic doesn't works.

Because it depends what kind of criminal intention is behind something.

Persons for shure are not interrested in buying that Bionic if it's just the same short range detecting like any usual MD. And if OKM suggests it will detect on a much further distance and it doesn't they are fooling and betraying persons who are searching a tool with SPECIAL abilities!

btw. all those harddisk resellers should be sued, too, those liars! We are living in the year 2011 and everyone! is dealing with real megabyte, gigabyte or terrabyte and if I wanna buy a 2 TB harddisk I dont wanna get only 1.860TB which is around 7% less! :angry:

And if OKM likes to cheat persons so they start to think their Bionic stuff is really long range detecting and this is not true 100% FOR SHURE I and everyone else can sue or punish them directly!


to copy and make clones is the big problem

Morgan, for whom? Why don't exists any Mineoro clones? I guess because it would be just a waste, if it doesn't work reliable anyway.

And usually it depends on trade marks, patents, open domain, money making and alot other marketing stuff.

However the not really fair "good business" always had piracy and theft as counterpart and sometimes the pirates have had more moral and ethics than the greedy business-man!

Concerning electronics or software it always depends how "important" and worthful to protect something is.

In most cases all those "owner-rights" shall go to hell because they make just problems as we can see with p2p, the film, game and music industry and how arrogant they're acting against the consumer or safety-backupers.

Shure, the inventor(s) should get their reward for their good work, but not over hundred of years and not by creating monopoles.

All those f**** licences and stuff makes everything just extremly expensive and destroys the free development and improvement.

Where will we end if every little electronical circuit would be protected by law? Nowwhere. :angry:

And it's the biggest joke of all to protect not working LRL circuits! :lol:

[J_Player]

Hmmm...
It seems everyone in Geotech knows that OKM products are not a very good choice for treasure hunting.
They can easily read all the reports from users who tell about their disappointment from OKM.
Funny how everyone seems to understand that OKM can help to find buried things no better than a directional gradiometer except Funfinder, who expects other people to sue OKM.

Why is this?
Why would Funfinder expect other people to perform scientific tests to his satisfaction and then sue the OKM company?
We all know OKM never claimed people can recover treasure from long range with their equipment, so why would Funfinder want me or anyone else to sue them?

We don't need to look too far to find the answer.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=136589&postcount=1
http://www.youtube.com/user/CryptonGreece

We can see here a working LRL that is based on the known principle of electrolytical current EM wave distortion but it also works under moist conditions.

This unit will be produced in Greece in a few weeks/months and I will test and support it for middle europe...
It begins to become clear that Funfinder is preparing to become an LRL dealer in Europe.
Does this put a new light on why he would want to see other people sue OKM company?

The question now arises: What kind of competition will OKM offer to the Greek LRL that Funfinder is peddling?
Can it be that difficult to compete against OKM? After all, most treasure hunters already know bionic locators perform like a cheap gradiometer.
If this is the same level of performance we can expect from his OBMD-1 Greek LRL, then it may be good to keep a close watch on what he is peddling. :eek:


Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

OKM is half time fraud company.

Or more juridical: they have to can be fraudulent subjectivity.

[Funfinder]

J_Player wrote:
It begins to become clear that Funfinder is preparing to become an LRL dealer in Europe.

:lol: :lol: :lol: You really saved my day!

And of what do you dream at night?

No, I don't wanna be a dealer or a reseller, all what I want is that we can be shure those are real functional methods and if so real working LRLs shall starting to exist and I have no problem if after this real working LRLs would be available.

But what we know already about the work with them (Hungs coconut site, Ingas not working OKM Bionic and Morgans not findable ship wrecks...) we will have a hard time with this stuff anyway and working with such units could be "no fun" or better "the beginning of alot problems, useless efforts and huge frustrations" and personally I prefer detectors that will cause no "further problems".

[J_Player]

J_Player wrote:
It begins to become clear that Funfinder is preparing to become an LRL dealer in Europe.

:lol: :lol: :lol: You really saved my day!

And of what do you dream at night?

No, I don't wanna be a dealer or a reseller, all what I want is that we can be shure those are real functional methods and if so real working LRLs shall starting to exist and I have no problem if after this real working LRLs would be available.

But what we know already about the work with them (Hungs coconut site, Ingas not working OKM Bionic and Morgans not findable ship wrecks...) we will have a hard time with this stuff anyway and working with such units could be "no fun" or better "the beginning of alot problems, useless efforts and huge frustrations" and personally I prefer detectors that will cause no "further problems".Funfinder you are a LIAR!

We see your post announcing that you will test and support the new CryptonGreece LRL in Europe... You posted it here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18232

You cannot pretend it is not true after you told us you will test and support it for middle Europe.
That is a flat out lie! ...We see your forum post...!

But it is worse... you have no respect for copyrights and proprietary ownership of circuits. You believe it is ok for you to steal other people's circuits to do what you want with them regardless of patents or copyrights.

Scroll up and read your words. "...all those "owner-rights" shall go to hell because they make just problems as we can see with p2p, the film, game and music industry..."

Are you aware that Carl-NC has made provisions to stop copyright thieves? Do you really think it is ok to steal other peoples work and post it in his forums when they say it is proprietary?

Maybe you don't care about international copyright laws, but you should take a look at what Carl-NC has said about taking other people's circuits and pretending you own them.

Good luck with your LRL venture.
Don't pretend you are not on a venture to promote LRLs... we see your post here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18232

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

Funfinder you are a liar

J_Player, :nono: - question: Have the LRL topics fully fried your brain? :lol:
We know already, to where all of your assumptions are leading: to nothing!

[Funfinder]

Oh by the way - just meant satiric / ironic: :razz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjtghitGOM

And please J_P leave Carl out of the business, or do you like intrigue like a woman?
You and your misleading: "ripped out of the context quotes".

Anyway - I don't think not working circuits which are used to create fooling people products or have just experimental wannabe status have the right for protection, for any protections at all. :lol:

[J_Player]

Ummm... Funfinder...

You told us you are going to test and support a Greek LRL manufacturer
Now you say your words are only assumptions...

Who are you trying to fool?
We are not that stupid.
We can read what you wrote.

Nobody here has any brain problems.
We know very well what you wrote in the Geotech forums.
We see your long post to tell your reasons why owners of copyrights can "go to hell"

Stop pretending we are assuming things and read your own words: Morgan, for whom? Why don't exists any Mineoro clones? I guess because it would be just a waste, if it doesn't work reliable anyway.
And usually it depends on trade marks, patents, open domain, money making and alot other marketing stuff.
However the not really fair "good business" always had piracy and theft as counterpart and sometimes the pirates have had more moral and ethics than the greedy business-man!
Concerning electronics or software it always depends how "important" and worthful to protect something is.
In most cases all those "owner-rights" shall go to hell because they make just problems as we can see with p2p, the film, game and music industry and how arrogant they're acting against the consumer or safety-backupers.
Shure, the inventor(s) should get their reward for their good work, but not over hundred of years and not by creating monopoles.
All those f**** licences and stuff makes everything just extremly expensive and destroys the free development and improvement.
Where will we end if every little electronical circuit would be protected by law? Nowwhere.
And it's the biggest joke of all to protect not working LRL circuits! Do you expect anyone to believe you respect copyrights?

Can you honestly tell us you will not be representing an LRL manufacturer in Europe?
What do your words mean here? "This unit will be produced in Greece in a few weeks/months and I will test and support it for middle europe.
btw. I don't care if it's based on some old Mineoro circuit like Morgans pistol detectors..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=136589&postcount=1

Best wishes,
J_P

[Sven104]

beautiful it is here, the company okm discussed and their cheap products.

it does not fall only on employees but also to save the. Most data in the company but have no idea about the products they build there, the workers are just so helpful to see the device also. Poor processing of the housing and electronics. The whole device is actually held only by hot glue and glue.

in the old Bionix are for example the circuit boards installed.

http://www.conrad.com/Lie-detector---kit.htm?websale7=conrad-int&pi=190055&ci=SHOP_AREA_17619_2420110&Ctx=

no idea what a lie detector in such a device is installed, this is probably the Bionic measurement methods.

in the rover deluxe is already established as the FLC 100 and also built in part by

http://whites.co.uk/3900-pro-plus.html

see the rover deluxe coil same and the same display as before Bionix.

because you can buy cheaper but the same device that can not be less.

though most appliances are very old just got a new housing each year. so that the customer is thrilled to again and buys a new device,

and with each new product is made in the secret advertising forums, all of which was found.

[GOLDY]

I wouldn't throw my money at that Bud there is absolutely no scientific way of that device finding any inca gold anywhere especially under the ground they just pulling the wool over your eyes. Scam artists. :nono:

[Funfinder]

J_P,
you don't have anything to want from me, is this clear?!

Because you're the one who starts to wanna discuss with me, who critizises what I'm writing, who can't live with what I'm thinking and writing.

But I don't care about you.

Go away with your wrong attitude! You are unable! I wonder if you even can find out if a simple flash-light works or not!

Without me you and WM6 still would be convinced that the Jeohunter is a fraud product.

All what you want to have is entertainment and cheap bla bla bla smalltalk. You are not interrested in serious investigation. Come on, J_Player, why you don't hire some good detectives and send them to Brazil, perhaps they can find the true answer you will never find!


btw. I think about to leave this forum because I don't want that such evil persons like we have here at least two of them should have even the slightest gain from what I'm writing, from my knowledge, from doesn't matter what I'm giving out to this forum here!

Not you J_Player, and not you, WM6.
Unsympathical to the hilt, unable, completly unable!

No wonder Morgan has asked for his own forum and makes alot of secrecy about his PDK because he also doesn't like that such worse persons should have any win from what he is doing!

You are so blind, WM6 and J_Player! With your ridiculous attitude and with your hate against how to find facts by scientifical study way you destroy everything here!

And I don't throw away presents to persons who don't deserve it!

Stupid me, last year I still thought about to visit WM6 to show him the Jeohunter personally. But I'll never would do this again, because such persons absolutly don't deserve it! They will never understand what is real and what is fantasy, 'cause they live in their dreamworlds full of crap and assumptions.

And now J_P and WM6 please please please go on with your no results bringing bla bla bla smalltalks here - hahahaha, you will never find out if the Bionic X4 really works or not, never... :razz:

You will never learn the way how to really learn and discover.


PS and save your psychotic ultra big letter J_P because I don't read your **** any longer!

[WM6]

Stupid me, last year I still thought about to visit WM6 to show him the Jeohunter personally.



After you calm down (probably you dont want to fight because of different opinions of some aparatus?), you can held that you are still my friend.

We will met and test different devices (hope Geo's an Morgan's pistols too) one day. Scientifically, and post all results here.

I am fan of you.

[Mike(Mont)]

Funfinder, why do you read their posts? Don't blame them--You are part of the problem! You are feeding their addiction. They want attention and you are giving it to them. Do you really expect to get their approval?

"Of all the times that I've been burned,
by now you'd think I'd learn
That it's who you look like,
not who you are."

--Jackson Browne

[WM6]

"Of all the times that I've been burned,
by now you'd think I'd learn
That it's who you look like,
not who you are."

--Jackson Browne



Jackson Browne was LRL believer too? Incredible!

[Mike(Mont)]

Funfinder,
here's some advice: Believe in yourself. You can accomplish anything you desire. Don't listen to the negative garbage. They are losers trying to compensate for their inadequacy. Don't expect approval from them or anyone! Thank yourself when you get it right, even the small steps. The winning attitude needs to be set in your subconscious, then there are no limits. Thanks to Gail Howard for some of these tips.

I like the book "Knowing Your Intuitive Mind" by Dale Olson.

[WM6]

I like the book "Knowing Your Intuitive Mind" by Dale Olson.



Seems didnt help you, maybe you need to change your readings.

For start (as you are deep in scam business), I suggest you this:

http://trade.gov/goodgovernance/adobe/bem_manual.pdf

[oroboy]

HI Morgan pls. post schematic diagram of your pdk

[GOLDY]

What was the word under your avatar GURU what ever, i have my degree in Engeneering buddy ive done my time talk is cheep money buys the whisky.Anyway im not into personal politics and vandettas, constructive chritisism does good as it eliminates all the fraudsters selling bad equipment out there as im on this forum for constructive reasons and to help out fellow gold seekers where i can. So chill out dude, because i have my reasons behind not likeing your machines doesnt mean i deserve you inapropriate behavior and whats happened to freedom of choice ?
Guru?

[GOLDY]

J_P,
you don't have anything to want from me, is this clear?!

Because you're the one who starts to wanna discuss with me, who critizises what I'm writing, who can't live with what I'm thinking and writing.

But I don't care about you.

Go away with your wrong attitude! You are unable! I wonder if you even can find out if a simple flash-light works or not!

Without me you and WM6 still would be convinced that the Jeohunter is a fraud product.

All what you want to have is entertainment and cheap bla bla bla smalltalk. You are not interrested in serious investigation. Come on, J_Player, why you don't hire some good detectives and send them to Brazil, perhaps they can find the true answer you will never find!


btw. I think about to leave this forum because I don't want that such evil persons like we have here at least two of them should have even the slightest gain from what I'm writing, from my knowledge, from doesn't matter what I'm giving out to this forum here!

Not you J_Player, and not you, WM6.
Unsympathical to the hilt, unable, completly unable!

No wonder Morgan has asked for his own forum and makes alot of secrecy about his PDK because he also doesn't like that such worse persons should have any win from what he is doing!

You are so blind, WM6 and J_Player! With your ridiculous attitude and with your hate against how to find facts by scientifical study way you destroy everything here!

And I don't throw away presents to persons who don't deserve it!

Stupid me, last year I still thought about to visit WM6 to show him the Jeohunter personally. But I'll never would do this again, because such persons absolutly don't deserve it! They will never understand what is real and what is fantasy, 'cause they live in their dreamworlds full of crap and assumptions.

And now J_P and WM6 please please please go on with your no results bringing bla bla bla smalltalks here - hahahaha, you will never find out if the Bionic X4 really works or not, never... :razz:

You will never learn the way how to really learn and discover.


PS and save your psychotic ultra big letter J_P because I don't read your **** any longer!
My last quote was to you by the way!

[Funfinder]

I wrote: 10-16-2011, 01:05 AM

http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showpost.php?p=136726&postcount=51

> Look at the large product selection on the OKM page.
> All those around 15 detectors are scam, don't work??? :lol:

Today I found an interesting forum-posting that the Bionic perhaps might indeed work:

here:
http://www.schatzsucher.de/Foren/showthread.php?t=38857

the last post of this page from 17.02.2008, 17:37

Bin grad über deine Frage gestolpert und da dacht ich mir, melde ich mich mal hier an, da ja ansonsten niemand deine Frage beantwortet. Ich war mal Besitzer eines Bionic alpha, Ergebnisse waren so la la. Mal erfolgreich, mal wieder nicht. Daher hab ich es umgetauscht, hab jetzt nen eXp 4000 der super Ergebnisse bringt. Naja wünsch dir jedenfalls noch große Erfolge mit deinem LR. Frag mich ruhig, wenn ich dir noch irgendwie helfen kann. Bin aber auch kein Profi.

The thread is about the question:
"does someone has made any experience with the Bionic"

translated (the important part):
Once I was the onwer of a Bionic alpha, the results was "so la la".
In german this means that the results sometimes was good, sometimes not so good.

After this statetment the user tells:
"Once successful, once not. Therefore I gave it back (changed it), now I have the eXp 4000 (which is also from OKM) which brings super results."



So what do we have here?
This OKM Bionic Alpha user did not say, that the detector is completly a nonworking crap, but he said that it sometimes worked, sometimes not. Too bad he didn't explain it much more detailed under what conditions it worked and what he found.

The eXp 4000 as a magnetometer with grafical output of course works if used correctly, but I guess it costs 6000 Euros which is over 7000 dollars so its a question if its really worth the price. But he told that the eXp 4000 works and thats the point here.


In the final posting at page 2 of this thread another OKM Bionic Alpha user tells that he got no detection results with the Bionic Alpha and when he called OKM they told him that the gold must be buried at least 50 years. And further he tells that a friend of him later bought a new version of the Bionic and OKM told that for the new version the gold not has to be buried for a very long time before.



So what is the interesting part of this now???

That we have a formerly OKM Bionic Alpha owner that tells that this device worked for him, just not very good (just half of the time or something like this).

But it worked and he did not say that the Bionic Alpha was just a pure waste of money and total crap!

And by the way OKM still offers two such Bionic detectors on their website.


So from a probability range 1 to 100 "does the Bionic works" after this posting it looks llike that someone can't say:

For hundert percent if will not work!


A more reality reflecting statement may sound like this:


It works, yes, but not very good, just ca. 25% of all the time.


And if it is able to detect the very weak and slightly stronger or weaker becoming EM-field anomalies around buried metal objects of course it would possible that it works, seen from the electronical principle.

The question is just: how reliable, how useful and how much empty holes someone has to dig until he finds real targets.


This posting should not strenghten the position of some betraying LRL-fraudsters and their evil doings but it should relativate the whole LRL topic to a realistic point where the statement could be:


electronical bases detection of buried objects from a larger distance could be indeed possible, but only sometimes, under best weather conditions and after a long time of experience with such detectors.


But perhaps the person who wrote that his Bionic Alpha sometimes works, sometimes not just was a liar or a victim to his own selfdelusion - but so far I don't think so.

Shure, if a person buys a 5000 Euro expensive "toy" he wanna have fun and success with it - so he may tend to betray himself in thinking that the device really works while in reality his finds just were made by pure chance. But now after 5 years its no longer possible to contact "anonymo" from Sachsen, Germany.

Too bad, so the pure guessing and controversial discussions will remain until a real reliable LRL-detector incl. trustworthy testing person will be found !!!

[Funfinder]

apropos:

yesterday I found out that the firm OKM exists since 1998 - first it was a little garage-tinkering-project in Chemnitz, Thuringia - but meanwhile there are working diploma informatik- and other engineering "doctors" and there central has moved now and is located at a modern and expensive building.

One of the 2 founding members was and still is: Andreas Krauss


At german treasure-hunting forums there have been already in the year 2000 very controverse discussions about their so called ground radar "Future 2001".

Infact this was some homebrew computerized magnetometer and far away from RADAR, very easy rebuildable stuff around some cheap fluxgate-magnetometer which was glued and full with epoxy to prevent it from easy rebuilding.

The same method also use so called LRL-fraudsters to hinder persons to discover the real truth or to camouflage their extremly cheap electronical-parts crap.

OKM then in 2004 was forced stop calling their extremly unreliable working "LCD-display-output-gradiometer" a GPR. At this time the new version was called already "Future 2005" from which the new EXP detectors derived.

However because of the significantly "cheaper" price (only just around 4000 Euros) of this Future 2001, 2003 or 2005 - many people bought it, instead of the over 13.000 Euro expensive EMFAD.

Depending on the users experience, the location, the calibration and other factors both machines worked the same good or bad, but of course the EMFAD uses long-wave-anomaly detection and the Future 2005 uses just magnetical fields. Thats why magnetometers will not detect very good cavitys or noble metals.

OKM was lucky and found some part of a WW2 airplane at London which brought them some larger news-headlines and even docu-movies and many of those OKM detectors was bought from people of Greece and Turkey. But most of those persons (and if someone sufferes from goldfever, it can make 'em blind for any realistic arguments, too) were very unsatisfied with the performance of those OKM products!


One example:

Persons who made with one and the same OKM detector several completly identical tests and even buried huge metal objects there before, all the time got different and changing screen-outputs and couldn't locate the just 1m deep huge metal object at all.

And this happened with an already real proven (magnetometer)-technology.

So you can imagine how much more difficult it may be to get some real useful results with those OKM Bionic detectors which work with extremly weak directional EM-field changes.


Normally such user-unfriendly products should be banned from the market and forbidden (same with those wannabe LRL-detectors as long as they don't proven work reliable!), but the greed for treasures of some people is that extremly high, that they love to throw away huge amounts of money just to satisfy their illusions!

OKM and other wondermachine-producers of course are very happy about such fanatic and totally irrational thinking persons....

[WM6]

Good contribution, those OKM fraud-LRL-story. Thanks Funfinder.

[ROJ]

Hello
This is my test on real target.
See from here.
http://www.felezyaberoj.com/?p=7579

[WM6]

Flash plug in failed to load.
What is format of your video?

[Nicolas]

Flash plug in failed to load.
What is format of your video?


Hi dear WM6 you can see on YouTube now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAozXj2f_l8

[insight]

Hello
This is my test on real target.
See from here.
http://www.felezyaberoj.com/?p=7579

hi roj
is it totem?

[ROJ]

Hi Insight
It is PD.