Carl's phony LRL report

[Mike(Mont)]

I can't vouch for the other reports, but I feel it is my civic duty to report that the VR-800 report is way off. I own a locator from Vernell Electronics that has the same six elements and I will tell you the frequencies and the AQC ranges are totally different (all except for one of the frequencies). In the past I had mentioned to Carl that he was most likely using broken locators for his reports. The fact that he never mentions this in his reports should be considered unethical. That's not the word I would use to describe this but I'm trying to be politically correct (I hate that phrase). And anyone wonder what I think of skeptics?

[Mike(Mont)]

I'm sure the reply from the Carl followers is that LRL's are cheap to build. Well, how much does it cost to build a White's metal detector. Seeing how they are mass produced the labor cost is minimal, I would bet an LRL cost's more to build.

[Mike(Mont)]

The bottom line here is what I have said for years, Carl is not qualified to do an LRL "Report". Just like a mathmatician is not qualified to build lotto picking software--just because the person is skilled in math. You gotta pay your dues. Instead this is all hypocracy the deception that is carried on that he is somehow qualified.

No, I do not feel it is okay to post the accurate frequencies. No doubt many people have tried to use the freq's in the report and concluded that VR equipment is no good. That's a con game plain and simple. Now you have a slight idea why I get so disgusted.

[WM6]

The bottom line here is what I have said for years, Carl is not qualified to do an LRL "Report".

.

Sure, only LRL skammers like you are qualified to do an LRL "Report".

[Fred]

In the past I had mentioned to Carl that he was most likely using broken locators for his reports.
How do you make the difference between a broken LRL and a good one ?

[WM6]

How do you make the difference between a broken LRL and a good one ?

Good one had never been in touch with sceptic fingers. You know, negative energy can destroy all fraudulent magic.

[Mike(Mont)]

The way I see it is either Carl is eating that crap with a spoon or he knows it's bogus...or both.

[Carl-NC]

I can't vouch for the other reports, but I feel it is my civic duty to report that the VR-800 report is way off. I own a locator from Vernell Electronics that has the same six elements and I will tell you the frequencies and the AQC ranges are totally different (all except for one of the frequencies). In the past I had mentioned to Carl that he was most likely using broken locators for his reports. The fact that he never mentions this in his reports should be considered unethical. That's not the word I would use to describe this but I'm trying to be politically correct (I hate that phrase). And anyone wonder what I think of skeptics?

My VR800 says "Dell Systems," not "Vernell Electronics." I only reported what I measured, and Dell never complained that any of my measurements were wrong. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least if other LRLs have different frequencies for identical "element" settings, whether those LRLs are from "Dell Systems" or whether they are "VR" models. Or even specifically other Dell Systems VR800's.

In fact, I tested a Dell "Omnitron System II" LRL. The frequencies were 1517Hz for gold and 805Hz for silver, quite different from the 612Hz and 466Hz for the VR800. This is an almost-identical LRL from the same manufacturer... why would it have radically different "element" frequencies? I've seen the same thing with 3 different Vector Trek LRLs, they all have different frequencies. In fact, in all the MFD-LRLs I've ever measured, no two units had even remotely the same frequency settings. It's as if... it's all made up.

Mike, I welcome you to post the frequencies you measured on your VR unit, and for you explain why none of the LRLs use the same frequencies. Does the frequency really matter?

- Carl

[Qiaozhi]

Just like a mathmatician is not qualified to build lotto picking software--just because the person is skilled in math.
I suppose you also believe predicting lottery numbers from past results is a worthwhile pastime. :nerd:

[Geo]

Mike, I welcome you to post the frequencies you measured on your VR unit, and for you explain why none of the LRLs use the same frequencies. Does the frequency really matter?

- Carl

Hi.
From my experiments i saw that there are many frequences that excites a metal. The harmonics from these frequences can excite some other metals so every manufacturer select the frequency who think that it is better for the locating of the "good" metal and for the rejecting to the other metals. This is the reason that we can see two same llr with different frequences.

Regards

[J_Player]

The bottom line here is what I have said for years, Carl is not qualified to do an LRL "Report". Just like a mathmatician is not qualified to build lotto picking software--just because the person is skilled in math. You gotta pay your dues. Instead this is all hypocracy the deception that is carried on that he is somehow qualified...
From my observations, I have never seen any user of a Dell Systems or Vernell LRL showing all the fabulous treasure they recovered with it at a treasure hunting forum.
In fact I don't recall seeing even their weekend finds at the beach or at the relic grounds posted in any forum.
But I recall reading thousands of posts from people showing photos of their recoveries when they were using conventional metal detectors.
And they didin't mind telling what brand and frequencies the detectors ran at.
Cool, huh? :super:

Best wishes,
J_P

[taxma1981]

1,17 hz for gold ,silver,bronze

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3408/pppdh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/pppdh.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1193/img0289aa.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/img0289aa.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3662/18285439.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/18285439.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Qiaozhi]

1,17 hz for gold ,silver,bronze
What was the make and model of the metal detector you used to do the pinpointing?

[taxma1981]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/pppdh.jpg/

[taxma1981]

What was the make and model of the metal detector you used to do the pinpointing?

SORRY!!!!! 1,17 KHZ NOT 1,17 HZ ,


now I saw I was wrong.....

[Qiaozhi]

What was the make and model of the metal detector you used to do the pinpointing?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/pppdh.jpg/
The image you posted is for the dowsing contraption. My question was about the detector you used to do the pinpointing.

[taxma1981]

garret 250 ,why do you ask;

[Qiaozhi]

garret 250 ,why do you ask;
Because your post (#12) implies the item was located solely by using the LRL. No final pinpointing device is even mentioned. This type of selective reporting by LRL users seems to be very common, and is why I asked the question. Whereas, in fact, the item was located using a Garrett 250, and the LRL was only used to subconsciously decide where to start using the real metal detector.

The result would be no different if you simply divided the search area into 6 sections and rolled a dice to decide where to start. A couple of weeks ago I also "subconsciously" decided where to start searching in a large field, and found a roman Denarius, whereas several other detectorists found nothing. Later on that day I also found an 1880 silver Victorian threepence.

Any LRL, that uses a swinging handle to "locate" the target, is a dowsing rod. Regardless of how much electronics is attached to the rods. Without the metal detector to make the final recovery, your find rate would be reduced to almost zero.

[taxma1981]

if it were so then everyone with a scanner could not do so when you hold a metal detector in the hands of just go and never looking for your Aunt UpComing epifotisi / / with the dowsing is different, do not know what to say

[Qiaozhi]

if it were so then everyone with a scanner could not do so when you hold a metal detector in the hands of just go and never looking for your Aunt UpComing epifotisi / / with the dowsing is different, do not know what to say
I don't understand your reply. It appears to be somewhat garbled.

My point is, that using a dowsing rod only helps you to decide where to start searching with the metal detector. It's about as much use as one of those executive decision makers.

[taxma1981]

the other dowsing and another the prediction

[Mike(Mont)]

Translate here, one is etheric the other is astral.

It's so hypocritical how the skeptics want everyone to believe their "reasoning". They want people to accept it as unquestionable scientific fact. I've said it before they feel threatened. They can't understand because they are imprisoned with the book knowledge they parrot/repeat.

Quizo, you really remind me of Jim AKA SWR (snivel, whine, & rant). I thought you were more intelligent than that. Now I wonder if you are one and the same or if he hypnotized you (or was it by sam?). :lol:

I can't speak for others, but if I don't find the target in a three foot circle--yes, with a metal detector because it saves time--I don't look any further, I go back and retry.

[Qiaozhi]

Translate here, one is etheric the other is astral.
Your reply is just gibberish.

Dowsing (i.e. when the rods move) is caused by the ideomotor effect. Pure and simple. There is nothing "etheric" going on there. It's all in the mind.

The executive decision maker is in no way related to the word "astral" (that's just ludicrous) and the result is based on chance.

It's so hypocritical how the skeptics want everyone to believe their "reasoning". They want people to accept it as unquestionable scientific fact. I've said it before they feel threatened. They can't understand because they are imprisoned with the book knowledge they parrot/repeat.
Allow yourself to be subjected to a double-blind test, and see how successful you are then. Once the human factor (read "tricks of the mind") are eliminated, the so-called "dowsing effect" magically vanishes.

Quizo, you really remind me of Jim AKA SWR (snivel, whine, & rant). I thought you were more intelligent than that. Now I wonder if you are one and the same or if he hypnotized you (or was it by sam?). :lol:
You will note there is no "swivelling", "whining" or "ranting" in my posts. They are all consistent with each other, and are firmly based in the real world, and not one of fantasy or a belief in obsolete medieval practices.

I can't speak for others, but if I don't find the target in a three foot circle--yes, with a metal detector because it saves time--I don't look any further, I go back and retry.
I'm not sure what that means. Are you saying, you "locate" a 3-foot area with your dowsing contraption, then search using a metal detector ... and if nothing is found, you move on? Presumably you make a note each time this happens, and then compare the number of successes to the number of failures. Or do you conveniently use selective memory to forget about it?

[Mike(Mont)]

Now you really sound like sam.:frown: Disgusting. Polly want a cracker Aawkk!

I've posted somewhere (probably deleted) that I find gold somewhere around one in five hotspots. Note I said I find gold. This is in city parks without any weight cancelling. Just using an old vlf metal detector. I have no doubt the gold is there is the other four spots but I don't care to tear up the park to find it.

You skeptics are like a laboratory rat that is trained to follow a maze. Can't think for yourself. debunkingskeptics.com

[Qiaozhi]

Now you really sound like sam.:frown: Disgusting. Polly want a cracker Aawkk!
Careful. You're starting to sound paranoid.

I've posted somewhere (probably deleted) ...
Yep. definitely paranoid.

... that I find gold somewhere around one in five hotspots. Note I said I find gold. This is in city parks without any weight cancelling. Just using an old vlf metal detector. I have no doubt the gold is there is the other four spots but I don't care to tear up the park to find it.
As you said, "Just using an old vlf metal detector".
You did not say, "Just using a dowsing rod".

You skeptics are like a laboratory rat that is trained to follow a maze. Can't think for yourself. debunkingskeptics.com
I know this is somewhat off topic. :offtopic
But, have you noticed how much "swivelling", "whining" and "ranting" there is in your posts?

In future, let's try to stick with the technical discussions, and not get diverted into ranting about skeptic delusions, etc. There are other forums on the internet more suitable for that sort of interchange ... and are also more dowsing friendly.

[Mike(Mont)]

Okay, let's stick with it. I heard if you are impotent you can't use a locator. Something about the sympathetic/parasympathetic nerve balance.

[Qiaozhi]

Okay, let's stick with it. I heard if you are impotent you can't use a locator. Something about the sympathetic/parasympathetic nerve balance.
Let's not fool ourselves here. Everyone can use a a dowsing rod ... and it actually "appears" to work when you already know where the target is located. As soon as the test is double-blind, the "magic" goes away. That's why dowsing advocates will avoid a double-blind test at all costs. It's a form of self delusion. :nolisten

[WM6]

I heard if you are impotent you can't use a locator.



You understand wrong, correct is: You become impotent, if you use locator!

But do not be desperate, with a metal detector you can fully recover your power.

[Mike(Mont)]

BTW, what is it you can't understand about lotto picks? Haven't you ever heard the saying "History repeats itself"? You don't know squat.

Look, I'm not saying impotent people can't dowse. Remember the joke about the guy who took viagra expecting the wife to come home. She called and said her flight was delayed for five hours. He called the doctor and asked him what he should do. The doctor said "Why don't you entertain the maid?" He replied "I don't need that stuff for her!".

Look up The Great Yogic Breath. It deals with the nerve balance.

You guys are so uneducated about any of this.

[Mike(Mont)]

Hypnotized and brainwashed by skeptics. What a pitiful bunch!
The devil (name withheld) is laughing as he wrings his hands.

I've told you guys too many times how even dogs can sense a signal line. Not to mention electronic receivers. I've even designed a cheap one of my own that is more sensitive. It doesn't work on highly conductive ground.

Yes, I know even LRL manufacturers cannot admit other LRL equipment works. I guess it's just human nature.

[Mike(Mont)]

Just an update on dogs detecting MFD signal lines. A guy told me his dog rubs its face on the signal line. I'm no dog expert but that seems to me that the dog likes what it feels there. He also said one time the dog was laying on what he thought was the signal line and the instant he changed the frequency the dog jumped to get away from the spot. He later found out the dog had been laying right on the target. He also said sometimes the dog would move to a new place--to the correct line--, like possibly the signal line had shifted. And I repeat he said the dog was more accurate than he was, but only when it wanted to go for a walk and to chase squirrels.

[Qiaozhi]

BTW, what is it you can't understand about lotto picks? Haven't you ever heard the saying "History repeats itself"? You don't know squat.

Look, I'm not saying impotent people can't dowse. Remember the joke about the guy who took viagra expecting the wife to come home. She called and said her flight was delayed for five hours. He called the doctor and asked him what he should do. The doctor said "Why don't you entertain the maid?" He replied "I don't need that stuff for her!".

Look up The Great Yogic Breath. It deals with the nerve balance.

You guys are so uneducated about any of this.

Hypnotized and brainwashed by skeptics. What a pitiful bunch!
The devil (name withheld) is laughing as he wrings his hands.

I've told you guys too many times how even dogs can sense a signal line. Not to mention electronic receivers. I've even designed a cheap one of my own that is more sensitive. It doesn't work on highly conductive ground.

Yes, I know even LRL manufacturers cannot admit other LRL equipment works. I guess it's just human nature.

Just an update on dogs detecting MFD signal lines. A guy told me his dog rubs its face on the signal line. I'm no dog expert but that seems to me that the dog likes what it feels there. He also said one time the dog was laying on what he thought was the signal line and the instant he changed the frequency the dog jumped to get away from the spot. He later found out the dog had been laying right on the target. He also said sometimes the dog would move to a new place--to the correct line--, like possibly the signal line had shifted. And I repeat he said the dog was more accurate than he was, but only when it wanted to go for a walk and to chase squirrels.
:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl
My goodness!
You don't half believe some utter crap.

Where is the technical information here concerning treasure hunting technology?
Lotto, Yogic breath, nerve balance, signal lines and MFD.
The answer is ... none of the above. :nerd:

[Mike(Mont)]

None of the above changes the fact that Carl's report does not reflect what is the truth. The report is deceptive. I read somewhere that someone claimed Carl is the most knowledgable LRL skeptic in the world. That might be true but if skeptic knowledge of LRL's was gasoline, it wouldn't be enough to drive a **** ant's go-kart around a cheerio.

I understand the mentality here. It is claimed the LRL proponents don't have the correct theory so therefore the skeptics can claim anything they want and feel legitimate about it. That's pathological. In case you don't know, that's why sam changes his alias identity over two hundred times. He once admitted that he couldn't dowse "any better than random chance". Then he had to eat his words because he tried to claim (like you) that LRL's are only dowsing. He knows full well he can't make that claim because he doesn't know--just like every other skeptic. You all got a chip on your shoulder--you feel threatened. You want people to believe that you profess the scientific truth, and that is totally bogus, totally deceptive, totally phony--and YOU KNOW IT!!! Someone fed Carl a plateful and he ate it. In the world of journalism he would have been kicked out on his rear for not checking his sources. Obviously the skeptica have no such standards.

[pelanj]

Next time I will get to a field, I will try to use a dowsing rod for where should I start metal detecting. Or maybe a pendulum. Seriously.

As I see it, the movement of the rods/pendulum is given by the subconscious mind - and that is supposed to use more "CPU power" than our conscious mind. So while I doubt I will "mentally see" the buried silver coins, my subsconcious "processor" might see a small drop or a strangely shaped group of trees where an old path lead in the past - and there should.

[pelanj]

One would most probably see these things normally after some conscious analysis as well:)

[Qiaozhi]

Next time I will get to a field, I will try to use a dowsing rod for where should I start metal detecting. Or maybe a pendulum. Seriously.

As I see it, the movement of the rods/pendulum is given by the subconscious mind - and that is supposed to use more "CPU power" than our conscious mind. So while I doubt I will "mentally see" the buried silver coins, my subsconcious "processor" might see a small drop or a strangely shaped group of trees where an old path lead in the past - and there should.

One would most probably see these things normally after some conscious analysis as well:)
Very good. This is exactly my point.

You arrive a a huge field, or group of fields ... but where do you start detecting? Some people like to walk around the perimeter, while others like to to head off into the distance and search in the furthest locations, or in the corners. Others search any slopes that lead down to a river, or any slope facing south. But most just wander about aimlessly, without keeping the coil parallel to the ground, completely missing anything of value.

Anyway, back to the point. Where do you start? One way to make a "decision" is to use a dowsing rod or some other device to subconsciously pick an area. Will this area be any better than one chosen by studying the landscape? Probably not; but at least you've made a decision. At the end of the day, your detector needs to be over the target to find it.

[J_Player]

Next time I will get to a field, I will try to use a dowsing rod for where should I start metal detecting. Or maybe a pendulum. Seriously.

As I see it, the movement of the rods/pendulum is given by the subconscious mind - and that is supposed to use more "CPU power" than our conscious mind. So while I doubt I will "mentally see" the buried silver coins, my subsconcious "processor" might see a small drop or a strangely shaped group of trees where an old path lead in the past - and there should.Hi pelanj,

I know you have the right idea. I tried the dowsing rod several times when I was at the beach hunting for lost coins and jewelry.
It worked well for deciding which direction, but it could not pinpoint. So I used a metal detector to pinpoint.
And I found a lot of coins... maybe 20-30 coins in 2 hours that were worth about $1 US.
This proves dowsing works good for showing which direction to look, but not good for pinpointing.

Then one day I was at the beach and I did not have a dowsing rod. So I tried the "guess technique".
This "guess technique" is not the same as spinning a wheel to see where it points when it stops.
The "Guess technique" has all the power of subconscious "processor", but with the added intelligence of conscious thought.
This means you get the subconscious urge to look in a particular direction, but you also have the benefit of thinking, which could tell you that your urge to look in the sky is not the best choice....
Or that there are no coins worth recovering inside the police car... try a an urge to look in a different direction...

The results were simply amazing. I more than doubled my recoveries.
In an average 2 hour hunt I was easily finding 40-50 coins worth at least $2 US.
After discovering this spectacular technique, I was never again tempted to use dowsing rods.

Of course, even the "Guess technique" is not good for pinpointing.
When I get within 50 feet of the target, I need to make the final pinpoint with a metal detector. :D

Best wishes,
J_P

Note: The "Guess technique" is also helpful when making recoveries.
By simply guessing there might be more than one coin in a hole...
I often found 2, 3, or more coins that I would not have found without using the the amazing "Guess technique". :good

[Qiaozhi]

The results were simply amazing. I more than doubled my recoveries.
The added advantage of the "guess" technique, is that more worthwhile time can spent with a real metal detector, rather than being wasted with a set of useless dowsing rods.
Hence, also helping to increase your find rate. :money

[Carl-NC]

None of the above changes the fact that Carl's report does not reflect what is the truth. The report is deceptive.

Mike, are you calling me a liar? Let's explore this a little... exactly WHAT is untruthful or deceptive in my report? Perhaps you can start by addressing my post #8.

If you continue to call me a liar, and continue to refuse to respond to my invitation to discuss this, then I think it's fair that you cease posting on my forums.

- Carl

[hung]

Mike, are you calling me a liar? Let's explore this a little... exactly WHAT is untruthful or deceptive in my report? Perhaps you can start by addressing my post #8.

If you continue to call me a liar, and continue to refuse to respond to my invitation to discuss this, then I think it's fair that you cease posting on my forums.

- Carl

Well, I'm not Mike but as I see it, the only mistakes he comitted were grammar related, as I have also discussed this subject with you in another forum in the past.

He wrote:
None of the above changes the fact that Carl's report does not reflect what is the truth. The report is deceptive.When it should read:
'None of the above changes the fact that Carl's reports do not reflect what is the truth. The reports are deceptive.'

You see, when you write some texts in the net infering your own opinions about something, then it becomes a personal view subject to criticism.

[Qiaozhi]

You see, when you write some texts in the net infering your own opinions about something, then it becomes a personal view subject to criticism.
Of which you have a lot of first-hand experience. ;)

[Mike(Mont)]

Mike, are you calling me a liar? Let's explore this a little... exactly WHAT is untruthful or deceptive in my report? Perhaps you can start by addressing my post #8.

If you continue to call me a liar, and continue to refuse to respond to my invitation to discuss this, then I think it's fair that you cease posting on my forums.

- Carl

It's your forum. I have no say what you do and as I've said before I do not cater to skeptics. I didn't call you a liar. I admit I find it VERY hard to believe your report is anything more than a finely written piece of deception--but again I have given you the benefit of the doubt and suggested someone sent you a molested piece of equipment. I even said it might have been some LRL manufacturer. We are all sinners and if you can't eat with sinners you eat alone. If you can't use an LRL there is no way of knowing. I've made the analogy in the past about someone who can't golf and then writes a report on a set of used golf clubs. I don't doubt that you "reported" what you found, but even this aside it's not good reporting when you make all kinds of generalizations. If you really want to give the impression that you are being fair you should have at the very least put a disclaimer on the report saying you really don't know if the equipment is in good working order or not. But you haven't even after I pointed it out to you. That really makes you too biased to even do a report in the first place.

As for me posting the frequencies, like I told one guy "You are asking me to give something that is not mine to give." That's unethical. I also said that was my "politically correct" version. Yes, I realize everyone does it nowadays. I don't need any more bad Karma. http://debunkingskeptics.com

[homefire]

I'm I confused here or what?

Science says they don't work.

No One can show they Work.

Most contain a bunch on NonSense parts constructed in a fashion that could not and does not work.

What is the Problem Here?

Show me they work and I will be the next in line to buy one!:rolleyes:

[J_Player]

...I don't need any more bad Karma. http://debunkingskeptics.com What happened?
somebody's karma ran over your dogma... heh? :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

I'm I confused here or what?

Science says they don't work.

No One can show they Work.

Most contain a bunch on NonSense parts constructed in a fashion that could not and does not work.

What is the Problem Here?

Show me they work and I will be the next in line to buy one!:rolleyes:



How to show to you if you have your eyes closed????
There are a lot of true videos that you see but you don't remember:lol::lol:

[Fred]

I am confused: should i take the maid or the dog to the field ? they both act randomly, so i suppose they work equally well.

[Fred]

How to show to you if you have your eyes closed????
There are a lot of true videos that you see but you don't remember:lol::lol:
Hi Geo,
Videos are true, but what we see in them is unclear.

[Carl-NC]

If you can't use an LRL there is no way of knowing. I've made the analogy in the past about someone who can't golf and then writes a report on a set of used golf clubs.

Mike, can you use an LRL? Can you show me? I'm absolutely sure you can't, and that you will refuse. All that are left are the alibis, let's hear 'em.

[ivconic]

Let's wait Obama to reveal secrets about UFOs and extraterrestrials, than we will reconsider also LRL possibility again. :rotfl
Most probably ET will give us also LRL technology that actually WILL WORK! :rotfl
I bet White's, Garret and Fisher will be the first to produce such devices!
Carl is rocket scientist... rockets.... extraterrestrials.... does bell ringing?! :rotfl:rotfl:rotfl
Dear LRL believers, now you know why Carl is refusing to accept LRL concept that is already proven to you!? :rotfl:rotfl:rotfl

P.S.
C'mon! Light up! Stop more arguing... you... people! Who gives a $hit about whether LRL is working or not? Personally i don't! I choose this hobby simply because i like conventional metal detectors and electronics. If you are convinced that your LRL is working - than be happy! Don't argue and annoy anymore here, please!

[WM6]

P.S.
C'mon! Light up! Stop more arguing... you... people! Who gives a $hit about whether LRL is working or not? Personally i don't! I choose this hobby simply because i like conventional metal detectors and electronics. If you are convinced that your LRL is working - than be happy! Don't argue and annoy anymore here, please!



Agree.

Hard beliefs are good inner substitute to arguments.

But unsecure beliefs generate inner needs for harder validation and therefore argue those beliefs to others outside testers.

[Rudy]

Mike, can you use an LRL? Can you show me? I'm absolutely sure you can't, and that you will refuse. All that are left are the alibis, let's hear 'em.

Carl, if I may offer a friendly amendment to what you said.

Mike, can you successfully use an LRL?

Anybody can use one, wave it around, walk with it, .... Finding precious metals with it is something else.

[Mike(Mont)]

This thread is not about me. I will answer this one question, but first I want to say it is a loaded question in this sub-tabloid scenario.

"MAN RISKS LIFE! WALKS ACROSS BROADWAY ON TIGHTWIRE!!!" reads the headlines of a small newspaper here. When you turn the page to the story there is a photo of a guy walking across the street and a wire is laying on the road under his feet. Was he risking his life? Of course anytime a person jaywalks on a busy street. Was the headlines truthful? Yes. Honest? Not by my way of thinking. That's the same mentality here. How to you define "successfully"? Am I rich? No. I'm not rich from using my top-of-the-line metal detector either (I won't name the brand and it doesn't really matter anyway.) Can I pass Carl's trumped up test? I woudn't bet on it. Would I take his test? Yes if he paid me enough for my time but my rates are going to be steeper that one certain LRL manufacturer. Can I find gold with my LRL better than random chance? Yes, by a long ways. Can I do so every time without fail as in 100%? Probably not, but I did hit 100% in my test area over the course of one week. What does all this prove? Nothing. Would I go treasure hunting or even metal detecting without an LRL? No way.

[J_Player]

This thread is not about me. I will answer this one question, but first I want to say it is a loaded question in this sub-tabloid scenario.

"MAN RISKS LIFE! WALKS ACROSS BROADWAY ON TIGHTWIRE!!!" reads the headlines of a small newspaper here. When you turn the page to the story there is a photo of a guy walking across the street and a wire is laying on the road under his feet. Was he risking his life? Of course anytime a person jaywalks on a busy street. Was the headlines truthful? Yes. Honest? Not by my way of thinking. That's the same mentality here. How to you define "successfully"? Am I rich? No. I'm not rich from using my top-of-the-line metal detector either (I won't name the brand and it doesn't really matter anyway.) Can I pass Carl's trumped up test? I woudn't bet on it. Would I take his test? Yes if he paid me enough for my time but my rates are going to be steeper that one certain LRL manufacturer. Can I find gold with my LRL better than random chance? Yes, by a long ways. Can I do so every time without fail as in 100%? Probably not, but I did hit 100% in my test area over the course of one week. What does all this prove? Nothing. Would I go treasure hunting or even metal detecting without an LRL? No way.Hi Mike,
I can think of a test that you can't do which does prove something.

I believe you can't pass a test to find items other people hide in a field you have never seen before even 50% of the time. I am talking about a grassy field 200 feet square where strangers who you never met before bury an object such as a coin or a ring 1 inch deep. 50% is no where near 100%, but it should be enough to demonstrate that you have some success with your LRL. Of course you would find good success if nobody else was watching, but I bet you can't get 50% or better if other people who you don't know are watching. I think you cannot do it because we never saw any real evidence you can do it even one time -- only a bunch of talk.

On the other hand, I think a metal detector can locate the hidden coin or ring every time. I have watched this happen for total strangers many times with different metal detectors.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

I spent countless hours developing the Revelation Locator Rod and hundreds of dollars on parts and tools. Each rod takes a few hours to build. Add in parts running, postage, etc. and it's a good bet you won't get it right on the first few attempts even if you steal my design. If that's not enough, this rod is for professionals. I have taken it to a couple dowsing conventions and most people--even some with L-rod experience--were unable to even keep it balanced. But yes, it is in a class all it's own. As I say it transcends smoothness. If you want the smoothest action rod in the world, this is it.

Mike, besides being smooth, can you tell me exactly what your Revelation Locator Rod can do? What did you design it to do, and what does it actually do?

Can I pass Carl's trumped up test? I woudn't bet on it. Would I take his test? Yes if he paid me enough for my time but my rates are going to be steeper that one certain LRL manufacturer. Can I find gold with my LRL better than random chance? Yes, by a long ways. Can I do so every time without fail as in 100%? Probably not, but I did hit 100% in my test area over the course of one week. What does all this prove? Nothing. Would I go treasure hunting or even metal detecting without an LRL? No way.

Mike, if you were trying to demonstrate your Revelation Locator Rod to a potential customer, how would you do it? I would assume that you would use a method that demonstrates some reasonable level of success, so can you describe a simple test scenario for your device that you feel you can succeed with, say, 70% of the time?

[g-sani]

Hi to everybody,
Do you sceptics know that human ears in order to hear or receive signals or sounds they have to transmit as well?
In other words, do you know that human ears work on a feedback system?
I believe that you don't.
Lets suppose that this one holds truth, then could one say that a human being comes equiped whith a very sophisticated LRL as a gift from God since the time of his birth?
Could this in turn be a tiny proof that a human being could also train himself to tune to gold so that he will be able to generate resonance?
Well this is what happens and this is dowsing but you have to watch out, because you mustn't be a sceptic to get it in practise.:D

[Qiaozhi]

Hi to everybody,
Do you sceptics know that human ears in order to hear or receive signals or sounds they have to transmit as well?
Yes ... but this transmission goes on deep within the inner workings of the ear.
In other words, do you know that human ears work on a feedback system?
I believe that you don't.
You are twisting the facts to suit your agenda.
Lets suppose that this one holds truth, then could one say that a human being comes equiped whith a very sophisticated LRL as a gift from God since the time of his birth?
Actually, this is a result of evolution, and has nothing to do with any deity. But we are not here to debate religious issues, so please stick with scientific facts.
Could this in turn be a tiny proof that a human being could also train himself to tune to gold so that he will be able to generate resonance?
:lol: No chance.
Well this is what happens and this is dowsing but you have to watch out, because you mustn't be a sceptic to get it in practise.:D
I think you are grasping at straws. :wall

[J_Player]

Hi to everybody,
Do you sceptics know that human ears in order to hear or receive signals or sounds they have to transmit as well?
In other words, do you know that human ears work on a feedback system?
I believe that you don't.
Lets suppose that this one holds truth, then could one say that a human being comes equiped whith a very sophisticated LRL as a gift from God since the time of his birth?
Could this in turn be a tiny proof that a human being could also train himself to tune to gold so that he will be able to generate resonance?
Well this is what happens and this is dowsing but you have to watch out, because you mustn't be a sceptic to get it in practise.:DHi G-sani,
I am a believer that your ears must send some tiny signal in order to hear, and they use feedback to work.
I know this proves something, but I am not sure what it proves exactly.

I am not asking for proof that the ear can hear gold.
I only ask to see somebody show their LRL or dowsing to find gold more than 50% of the time when strangers are watching.
So far I have seen no LRL find any gold at any time.

Of course I am an LRL believer...
but I believe LRL works only for times when strangers are not permitted to watch the recoveries.
I only ask to see a demonstration of LRL or dowsing successful to make recoveries 50% of the time when strangers area permitted to watch.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

At Greece a proverb says "what you got my John, what I have ever had":lol:

or "always the same.....:lol::lol:"

Regards:)

[Astrodetect]

Hi Mike,
I can think of a test that you can't do which does prove something.

I believe you can't pass a test to find items other people hide in a field you have never seen before even 50% of the time. I am talking about a grassy field 200 feet square where strangers who you never met before bury an object such as a coin or a ring 1 inch deep. 50% is no where near 100%, but it should be enough to demonstrate that you have some success with your LRL. Of course you would find good success if nobody else was watching, but I bet you can't get 50% or better if other people who you don't know are watching. I think you cannot do it because we never saw any real evidence you can do it even one time -- only a bunch of talk.

On the other hand, I think a metal detector can locate the hidden coin or ring every time. I have watched this happen for total strangers many times with different metal detectors.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JPlayer
You still put the question on the wrong basis, dont forget that the object that the strangers will bury must be LONG TIME buried or else the LRL cannot work.
Regards

[WM6]

Hi JPlayer

LONG TIME buried or else the LRL cannot work.



How do you know this? From mineoro fraudulance excuse tale story?

How many LONG TIME buried treasure did you (or anyone else) found by LRL?

Where are those "fact" evidenced, published? For now we have evidenced and published only a lot of proven findings done with regular metal detector, and not one alone found by LRL.

Except in promo tale stories given from LRL scam producer, reseller and promotor like mineoro, rangertell, dr. Hung, Mike_Mont, OKM etc.

[J_Player]

Hi JPlayer
You still put the question on the wrong basis, dont forget that the object that the strangers will bury must be LONG TIME buried or else the LRL cannot work.
RegardsHi Astrodetect,
The requirement for long time buried is only claimed for Brazilian LRLs and Middle East and some Mediterranean country LRLs.

In the USA long time buried is not necessary for LRL and dowsing.
There are dowsers and LRL users like Mike(Mont) all over the USA who say they find new things that are hidden.
Dell Winders shows on his web page people say they find hidden paper dollars using his LRL http://www.omnitron.net/del_prod.htm
And we see video of USA LRL user finding a fresh coin he put on the ground here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKbjsC5oy8

You can see science in the USA does not work the same as science in Brazil and Greece.
This is because we see video and read stories to teach us short-time buried and never-buried treasures will work for LRL in the USA.
The problem is it will not work if strangers are watching when the LRL user tries to recover things that he does not know the location of (more new science from the USA).


Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

The problem is it will not work if strangers are watching when the LRL user tries to recover things that he does not know the location of (more new science from the USA).

J_P

Of course, very naive strangers are not treated as strangers, so they can watch such hocus-pocus.

[g-sani]

Hi G-sani,
I am a believer that your ears must send some tiny signal in order to hear, and they use feedback to work.
I know this proves something, but I am not sure what it proves exactly.

I am not asking for proof that the ear can hear gold.
I only ask to see somebody show their LRL or dowsing to find gold more than 50% of the time when strangers are watching.
So far I have seen no LRL find any gold at any time.
Of course I am an LRL believer...
but I believe LRL works only for times when strangers are not permitted to watch the recoveries.
I only ask to see a demonstration of LRL or dowsing successful to make recoveries 50% of the time when strangers area permitted to watch.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_P, I know that deeply inside you there is something saying that may be some LRL works and may be dowsing works but I haven't seen them.
I was in the same situation before until I saw it whith my eyes happening many times.I have to admit that it was more times whith dowsing instead whith LRLs.
I see up to now that you are a very educated person and I believe that you read a lot about many different subjects.
So if you ever see dowsing happening there is very good possibility for you after that to become a good dowser.I am sure it is going to happen because you will be interesting to learn more about it and try it in practise but in a more methological way taking your time as somebody should do.
Nobody from those that 'don't believe' ever realised that dowsing is something that takes quite some time for somebody to see results.There are special cases when somebody can dowse straight away successfully but then we don't talk for the majority of the people.
You have to train yourself in that.It is like a racing driver that day by day becomes better.But even in this case there will be a driver that wins the races most of the times.
My point is that there is no sceptic that tried dowsing for some time.All of them want it to happen straight away otherwise they swear that it doesn't work.
So here is the question.Did anyone of them ride a two wheel bicycle from the very first time he got on it?
No chance.Does that also mean that nobody can learn? Of course not.
So how are you sure people that dowsing doesn't work?


At Greece a proverb says "what you got my John, what I have ever had":lol:

or "always the same.....:lol::lol:"

Regards:)

I remembered another one
You can knock as much as you like on a deafs door.:D

Hi JPlayer
You still put the question on the wrong basis, dont forget that the object that the strangers will bury must be LONG TIME buried or else the LRL cannot work.
Regards

Exactly!

[Geo]

How do you know this? From mineoro fraudulance excuse tale story?

How many LONG TIME buried treasure did you (or anyone else) found by LRL?

Where are those "fact" evidenced, published? For now we have evidenced and published only a lot of proven findings done with regular metal detector, and not one alone found by LRL.

Except in promo tale stories given from LRL scam producer, reseller and promotor like mineoro, rangertell, dr. Hung, Mike_Mont, OKM etc.

You forgot Morgan and me at Portugal when he located with PD the silver ring and the silver paper. All was many many years buried.

[Geo]

Hi Astrodetect,
The requirement for long time buried is only claimed for Brazilian LRLs and Middle East and some Mediterranean country LRLs.

In the USA long time buried is not necessary for LRL and dowsing.
There are dowsers and LRL users like Mike(Mont) all over the USA who say they find new things that are hidden.
Dell Winders shows on his web page people say they find hidden paper dollars using his LRL http://www.omnitron.net/del_prod.htm
And we see video of USA LRL user finding a fresh coin he put on the ground here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKbjsC5oy8

You can see science in the USA does not work the same as science in Brazil and Greece.
This is because we see video and read stories to teach us short-time buried and never-buried treasures will work for LRL in the USA.
The problem is it will not work if strangers are watching when the LRL user tries to recover things that he does not know the location of (more new science from the USA).


Best wishes,
J_P


Hi J_P.

Now remembered Mike and Dell.....
:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P, I know that deeply inside you there is something saying that may be some LRL works and may be dowsing works but I haven't seen them.
I was in the same situation before until I saw it whith my eyes happening many times.I have to admit that it was more times whith dowsing instead whith LRLs.
I see up to now that you are a very educated person and I believe that you read a lot about many different subjects.
So if you ever see dowsing happening there is very good possibility for you after that to become a good dowser.I am sure it is going to happen because you will be interesting to learn more about it and try it in practise but in a more methological way taking your time as somebody should do.
Nobody from those that 'don't believe' ever realised that dowsing is something that takes quite some time for somebody to see results.There are special cases when somebody can dowse straight away successfully but then we don't talk for the majority of the people.
You have to train yourself in that.It is like a racing driver that day by day becomes better.But even in this case there will be a driver that wins the races most of the times.

My point is that there is no skeptic that tried dowsing for some time. All of them want it to happen straight away otherwise they swear that it doesn't work.
So here is the question. Did anyone of them ride a two wheel bicycle from the very first time he got on it?
No chance. Does that also mean that nobody can learn? Of course not.
So how are you sure people that dowsing doesn't work?


I remembered another one
You can knock as much as you like on a deafs door.:DHi g-sani,
You did not read my reply correctly.
I said I am a believer that LRLs work.
You don't need to convince me there are swiveling LRLs that work or people who dowse. I already know it.
The problem is they only work when strangers are not permitted to watch the recoveries of things that they don't know the location of.

Also, you do not understand... I am not asking for instructions to teach me how to dowse.
I have no need to learn how to dowse.
I am asking for someone who says they can dowse proficiently to demonstrate in front of strangers how they can find things that they do not know the location of.
Or someone who has an LRL that will swivel and point to the treasure to demonstrate in front of strangers how they can find things that they do not know the location of.
I believe even a good dowser cannot proficiently locate things that other people hide.
Not even half the time. I think he can find them only when he is lucky, same as a person who is not a dowser.
I believe this is true because I never saw it happen or heard a credible report that it ever happened consistently for an object is hidden in a place where the dowser does not know.
I also watched everyone fail who tried to locate things that they did not know the location of with a swiveling LRL which is claimed to point to the hidden treasure.
If I am wrong, and many dowsers can do this, then why have we never seen one them do it in front of strangers when they do not know the location of the object?

But I have seen a real dowser find gold which he knew the location of.
I watched with my own eyes the rods cross when he stepped past the gold nugget he placed on the ground.
So I know it works because I already saw it.
You can see the same kind of proof that I saw if you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKbjsC5oy8
You can see it proves the LRL rod swings when he walks past the object he places on the ground.

What I have not seen is to watch the dowser's rods cross (or LRL point) when they step over a gold ring that I hide so they don't know the location.
This is what I would like to see.

Also note: I have watched people fail to find a gold ring every time when I hide it in a place they don't know, while they are using a new swiveling LRL.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[g-sani]

Hi g-sani,
You did not read my reply correctly.
I said I am a believer that LRLs work.
You don't need to convince me there are swiveling LRLs that work or people who dowse. I already know it.
The problem is they only work when strangers are not permitted to watch the recoveries of things that they don't know the location of.

Also, you do not understand... I am not asking for instructions to teach me how to dowse.
I have no need to learn how to dowse.
I am asking for someone who says they can dowse proficiently to demonstrate in front of strangers how they can find things that they do not know the location of.
Or someone who has an LRL that will swivel and point to the treasure to demonstrate in front of strangers how they can find things that they do not know the location of.
I believe even a good dowser cannot proficiently locate things that other people hide.
Not even half the time. I think he can find them only when he is lucky, same as a person who is not a dowser.
I believe this is true because I never saw it happen or heard a credible report that it ever happened consistently for an object is hidden in a place where the dowser does not know.
I also watched everyone fail who tried to locate things that they did not know the location of with a swiveling LRL which is claimed to point to the hidden treasure.
If I am wrong, and many dowsers can do this, then why have we never seen one them do it in front of strangers when they do not know the location of the object?

But I have seen a real dowser find gold which he knew the location of.
I watched with my own eyes the rods cross when he stepped past the gold nugget he placed on the ground.
So I know it works because I already saw it.
You can see the same kind of proof that I saw if you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKbjsC5oy8
You can see it proves the LRL rod swings when he walks past the object he places on the ground.

What I have not seen is to watch the dowser's rods cross (or LRL point) when they step over a gold ring that I hide so they don't know the location.
This is what I would like to see.

Also note: I have watched people fail to find a gold ring every time when I hide it in a place they don't know, while they are using a new swiveling LRL.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_P, there are many people around advertising themselves as dowsers when they are not.Beter to say that they are not accomplished yet.Which one is accomplished?
Difficult question but I will try to answer it.
The dowser that goes out in a place by chance whithout knowing what types of metal might be hidden there and he spots some and he verifies them by bringing them up from the ground is an accomplished dowser.Of course it has to be happen many times and much more than 50% of the times.I have been out dowsing whith a guy that can always dowse in a place and find what he has said that it is bellow the surface or the place he spotted.
So why you don't ask somebody to hide some gold in a big place whithout anybody knowing him or the place he put it and ask the dowser to go there alone and try and find it whithout the strangers arround him?
Wouldn't be a fair test? I believe it would.
Strangers arround can make a whole of a difference even to good dowsers but I assure you that they are some that they don't really care if it is somebody arround them or not.These ones proved to themselves many times what they can do and they will never try to convince others about that because it is like admitting that they don't trust their act any more.So how can they do it then? They fail because you ask them again and again something they allready know and that they have answered many times. It is like putting preasure to someone to forget what he knows up to that time asking him in other words to admitt that he goes nuts.Asking somebody a question taking his answer and asking the same thing again and again is madness.
When was that time when they have showed what they can do?
When me and some others saw it happening whith our eyes or tried it on ourselves.
It might happen for you as well one day but it might not.We are here offering you our experience as you are doing whith yours.
Believe us to believe you!
As simple as that.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P, there are many people around advertising themselves as dowsers when they are not.Beter to say that they are not accomplished yet.Which one is accomplished?
Difficult question but I will try to answer it.
The dowser that goes out in a place by chance whithout knowing what types of metal might be hidden there and he spots some and he verifies them by bringing them up from the ground is an accomplished dowser.Of course it has to be happen many times and much more than 50% of the times.I have been out dowsing whith a guy that can always dowse in a place and find what he has said that it is bellow the surface or the place he spotted.
So why you don't ask somebody to hide some gold in a big place whithout anybody knowing him or the place he put it and ask the dowser to go there alone and try and find it whithout the strangers arround him?
Wouldn't be a fair test? I believe it would.
Strangers arround can make a whole of a difference even to good dowsers but I assure you that they are some that they don't really care if it is somebody arround them or not.These ones proved to themselves many times what they can do and they will never try to convince others about that because it is like admitting that they don't trust their act any more.So how can they do it then? They fail because you ask them again and again something they allready know and that they have answered many times. It is like putting preasure to someone to forget what he knows up to that time asking him in other words to admitt that he goes nuts.Asking somebody a question taking his answer and asking the same thing again and again is madness.
When was that time when they have showed what they can do?
When me and some others saw it happening whith our eyes or tried it on ourselves.
It might happen for you as well one day but it might not.We are here offering you our experience as you are doing whith yours.
Believe us to believe you!
As simple as that.Hi g-sani,

I believe... I believe :)

So we can make the test your way.
I will hide a gold ring every day in a large grassy field 200 feet square at 10:00 am.
Then I will set a video camera at the edge of the field to show everything that happens in the field before I leave.
At noon, the dowser can come when the field is empty and nobody watching. He will have from noon until 2:00pm to hunt for the ring I hide.
We will not tell him there is a video camera watching, so he will not worry about watching.
We only ask him to see if he can find the lost ring in the field, and we send a car to bring him home at 2:00pm.
Then we repeat this test every day for 10 days.
We can then see if he brings back the ring 5 times or more for 50% success.
When the 10 days are done, we can look at the videos to make sure he is using his dowsing and LRL to find the ring....
not metal detectors... (we already know metal detector can find the ring every time).

If he is not successful to find the ring 50% of the time, then we can go fishing...
Fishing also is not the best for success, but is more fun than to hunt for a lost ring. :)


best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P

Things are more simple.
You go out with the dowsing man for treasure hunting. Sure he will locate some coins or other objects and he will take out of the ground with your presence

Regards:)

[g-sani]

Hi g-sani,

I believe... I believe :)

So we can make the test your way.
I will hide a gold ring every day in a large grassy field 200 feet square at 10:00 am.
Then I will set a video camera at the edge of the field to show everything that happens in the field before I leave.
At noon, the dowser can come when the field is empty and nobody watching. He will have from noon until 2:00pm to hunt for the ring I hide.
We will not tell him there is a video camera watching, so he will not worry about watching.
We only ask him to see if he can find the lost ring in the field, and we send a car to bring him home at 2:00pm.
Then we repeat this test every day for 10 days.
We can then see if he brings back the ring 5 times or more for 50% success.
When the 10 days are done, we can look at the videos to make sure he is using his dowsing and LRL to find the ring....
not metal detectors... (we already know metal detector can find the ring every time).

If he is not successful to find the ring 50% of the time, then we can go fishing...
Fishing also is not the best for success, but is more fun than to hunt for a lost ring. :)


best wishes,
J_P

Yes this is very good test but you don't need to do it for 10 days.Two or three different times will be enough.
The ring is so small in a very big place compared to its size.
It will be one in a million shot for somebody to find it by luck.So imaging this happening twice.
Have a look here somebody demonstrating his skills out in a beach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k69fIFEwQWk
You see somebody from the people there gives him his wedding ring and he is trying finding a ring or as he says he might find something similar to it.
If you say that this guy was his friend and they planned this to fool people then is nothing else we can talk.
As you see the ring he discovered from the dowser is plastic and the people arround ask him how can he find something plastic?
He did it because he programmed himself to find anything similar so the metal target was not a must for him.
If this video is also a fake then lets go fishing.:lol:

[Qiaozhi]

:disagree

[Fred]

You go out with the dowsing man for treasure hunting. Sure he will locate some coins or other objects and he will take out of the ground with your presence Yes this is very good test but you don't need to do it for 10 days.Two or three different times will be enough.
The ring is so small in a very big place compared to its size.
It will be one in a million shot for somebody to find it by luck.So imaging this happening twice. This is because you think this way that you are convinced dowsing works, and the we have never seen a real proof of it.

[hung]

.

[hung]

:lol:


(http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=389749.msg3067361#msg3067361)

[Max]

nothing new about LRLs... just big claims and jokes I see
:rolleyes:

[hung]

nothing new about LRLs... just big claims and jokes I see
:rolleyes:

Jokes yes, it's healthy. Except when censored.
And big claims... Hum... with or without the treasure found?

See ya Max, gotta go back to the field.

[Qiaozhi]

Jokes yes, it's healthy. Except when censored.
And big claims... Hum... with or without the treasure found?

See ya Max, gotta go back to the field.
Hung - you have just had your second warning!

I know that in the past there have been many personally abusive posts here. Several even against yourself. In particular, the ones concerning your secret LRL bunker, and whether you have a doctorate or not. Of course, some may say that you brought these comments upon yourself, by displaying a signature with the word "debunkering" (which, by the way, is not a word in the English language), and by communicating with Myron Evans (who refers to you as Dr Hung). Yes, we've seen the emails. :detective

This behaviour is now being strictly controlled. You may even have noticed the return of a very polite Max. :hat

Unless you would like an enforced absence from the Geotech Forums, please mend your ways and quit posting personal abuse. It is usually you that sparks others into retaliating with similar posts anyway. Personally, I don't think your absence would harm this forum in any way. I cannot recall even one of your posts that contained any useful information.

You have been warned. :ninja:

[Geo]

This is because you think this way that you are convinced dowsing works, and the we have never seen a real proof of it.

Yes, until you see a real dowsing man. Then you will come with Us......:lol:

Regards:)

[Geo]

Hung - you have just had your second warning!

I know that in the past there have been many personally abusive posts here. Several even against yourself. In particular, the ones concerning your secret LRL bunker, and whether you have a doctorate or not. Of course, some may say that you brought these comments upon yourself, by displaying a signature with the word "debunkering" (which, by the way, is not a word in the English language), and by communicating with Myron Evans (who refers to you as Dr Hung). Yes, we've seen the emails. :detective

This behaviour is now being strictly controlled. You may even have noticed the return of a very polite Max. :hat

Unless you would like an enforced absence from the Geotech Forums, please mend your ways and quit posting personal abuse. It is usually you that sparks others into retaliating with similar posts anyway. Personally, I don't think your absence would harm this forum in any way. I cannot recall even one of your posts that contained any useful information.

You have been warned. :ninja:

I don't see who is the mistake from Hung :???:

[hung]

No kidding? How hypocrite.
You are the one who starts the silly little comic strips and when I follow, you pick on me...

See, this is what I mean about bad administration in forums, besides taking it personal, you insist in ridiculing other's beliefs, and also insist in projecting personal (wrong) opinions about matters you completely ignore as they were true.

This is what I call real bad 'moderating' or whatever you call it in this 'forum'.
If you were honest about doing at least a fair job, you would clearly state that the 'gems' your post are your particular views and most important, you would never try to ridicule other's point of views contrary to your own.

Pal, this forum is history for me. I already told that Esteban and I would not waste time with empty BS here anymore.
As for me, what I would be here for anyway? Discussing about what since I have everything I need?

But I admit sometimes I hang around here just to read some posts, have fun and to manifest myself against injustices as I am doing now towards you.

You also be warned that everytime I get to read one of your temptatives of these said 'injustices' or bad administration against posts from us members, I will express it democratically but also incisively.

See ya, 'amigo'.

[Qiaozhi]

I don't see who is the mistake from Hung :???:
Of course not. I have deleted them.

[Qiaozhi]

No kidding? How hypocrite.
You are the one who starts the silly little comic strips and when I follow, you pick on me...
Hung - you know very well your statement is untrue. Whenever you are unable to respond to a post in a civilised manner, you resort to personal abuse. This has happened many times, and now must cease. If you want to post nonsense and be personally abusive, do it over on TNET.

I know others have occasionally overstepped the mark, and it may have been ignored by the Administrators, but you have had more than your fair share of infractions. Sometimes it's not so much that you've posted something you shouldn't have, as the number of times it happens. Even when you do post something remotely related to the topic under discussion, you either ignore any direct questions, or skirt around the answer like a bad politician.

In future you would do better to go into read-only mode, as far as these forums are concerned.

Take note...

[hung]

I don't see who is the mistake from Hung :???:

No mistake Geo. I just posted a joke and he got offended. He starts the funny pics and then blame other for doing it.

I posted this same funny pic in the Treasurenet forum. It's there right now for some laughs.
Regards.

[Qiaozhi]

No mistake Geo. I just posted a joke and he got offended. He starts the funny pics and then blame other for doing it.

I posted this same funny pic in the Treasurenet forum. It's there right now for some laughs.
Regards.
There was no offence. I'm just trying to get you to clean up your act. So far, you're not doing a very good job of convincing me.

[hung]

Hung - you know very well your statement is untrue. Whenever you are unable to respond to a post in a civilised manner, you resort to personal abuse. This has happened many times, and now must cease. If you want to post nonsense and be personally abusive, do it over on TNET.

I know others have occasionally overstepped the mark, and it may have been ignored by the Administrators, but you have had more than your fair share of infractions. Sometimes it's not so much that you've posted something you shouldn't have, as the number of times it happens. Even when you do post something remotely related to the topic under discussion, you either ignore any direct questions, or skirt around the answer like a bad politician.

In future you would do better to go into read-only mode, as far as these forums are concerned.

Take note...

I have already wasted too much time with blah blah blahs with you.
If you are true about what you said, I just hope next time I post about LRLs here you don't turn into a pest anwsering it and picking on me as you always did.
So let's see if you can keep a promise of no interference. If you disagree with my post, just ignore it.

Remember that. Hope I don't need to remind you about it.

[Qiaozhi]

I have already wasted too much time with blah blah blahs with you.
If you are true about what you said, I just hope next time I post about LRLs here you don't turn into a pest anwsering it and picking on me as you always did.
So let's see if you can keep a promise of no interference. If you disagree with my post, just ignore it.

Remember that. Hope I don't need to remind you about it.
It appears that you need a reminder of the forum rules:

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

This forum is for the open discussion of either method. Because LRL-oriented forums can quickly degrade into personal conflicts, this forum will be strictly controlled. Rules are still simple:

You must be a registered user to post here. Guests may read.
Be polite. Name calling will get you banned quickly.
Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

In general, try not to take differences of opinions personally.

In particular, note the parts about name calling, being polite, and being prepared to be challenged.

Keep going ... I've still got plenty of rope left.

[hung]

Maybe when I have time, I will post about 'administration role in LRL forums' over TNET.

The way you do here will become a good example of my thesis over there.


PS. I just hope you don't hang yourself with so much rope...

[J_Player]

Yes this is very good test but you don't need to do it for 10 days.Two or three different times will be enough.
The ring is so small in a very big place compared to its size.
It will be one in a million shot for somebody to find it by luck.So imaging this happening twice.
Have a look here somebody demonstrating his skills out in a beach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k69fIFEwQWk
You see somebody from the people there gives him his wedding ring and he is trying finding a ring or as he says he might find something similar to it.
If you say that this guy was his friend and they planned this to fool people then is nothing else we can talk.
As you see the ring he discovered from the dowser is plastic and the people arround ask him how can he find something plastic?
He did it because he programmed himself to find anything similar so the metal target was not a must for him.
If this video is also a fake then lets go fishing.:lol:Hi g-sani,
The reason for 10 tests is so we can measure the dowsing success with better precision than with only 2-3 tries.

Think about it... If the good dowser hunts for the ring on 3 days, and he has 2 bad days, then he only finds the hidden ring one day....
then we will think he is only a 30% good dowser.
And some people will think he was only lucky for finding the ring one time, and he has no dowsing ability because he did not find it more than one time.

But if we test 10 times, then we will see he had the 2 bad days, and 8 good days. We know this is very good success and he is a good dowser for 80%.
So you see that 10 tries can show a more accurate result than 2 or 3.

I have found a way to make the same test easier.
I can hide the gold ring with the key for the car, so the dowser can drive home when he finds the ring with the car key.
Then he will not need to wait for two hours for his ride home.
If he finds the ring in 5 minutes, then he can drive home and show the ring... and we can make another test if he wants in the same day.

If the dowser cannot find the ring, and he wants to stop searching, then he can call on his mobile phone for me to recover it and get the car keys.
This sounds like an easy test. I will wait for all the good dowsers to send me a message so they can demonstrate their dowsing ability.
Also, they can demonstrate their LRL working in the same test if they want.

If there is no recovery of the gold ring, this is still a good place for fishing.
Good ocean fishing, and good lake fishing too. :good


Best wishes, :)
J_P

[g-sani]

Hi g-sani,
The reason for 10 tests is so we can measure the dowsing success with better precision than with only 2-3 tries.

Think about it... If the good dowser hunts for the ring on 3 days, and he has 2 bad days, then he only finds the hidden ring one day....
then we will think he is only a 30% good dowser.
And some people will think he was only lucky for finding the ring one time, and he has no dowsing ability because he did not find it more than one time.

But if we test 10 times, then we will see he had the 2 bad days, and 8 good days. We know this is very good success and he is a good dowser for 80%.
So you see that 10 tries can show a more accurate result than 2 or 3.

I have found a way to make the same test easier.
I can hide the gold ring with the key for the car, so the dowser can drive home when he finds the ring with the car key.
Then he will not need to wait for two hours for his ride home.
If he finds the ring in 5 minutes, then he can drive home and show the ring... and we can make another test if he wants in the same day.

If the dowser cannot find the ring, and he wants to stop searching, then he can call on his mobile phone for me to recover it and get the car keys.
This sounds like an easy test. I will wait for all the good dowsers to send me a message so they can demonstrate their dowsing ability.
Also, they can demonstrate their LRL working in the same test if they want.

If there is no recovery of the gold ring, this is still a good place for fishing.
Good ocean fishing, and good lake fishing too. :good


Best wishes, :)
J_P

There is no good & bad days J_P. Either you can find it or not.
A dowser should find it in ten minutes time.
About all of them they will prefer the gold to be burried there for 20 days or more.
It was three times when whith a friend we agreed to undergo a test for some guys whith gold sovereigns hidden in a place of about 100x100 meters.
We told them that we will do the test but if we find them we will keep them.Nobody believed we could do it and they agreed straight away.
We asked them to go to a place they choose whenever they like to put some gold sovereigns in about 40cms deep and then call us to let us know the place so we could go there and try to find them in less than 30minutes.Then they could come over as well and check what we have done.
All three times we found them and of course we kept them.Mind you that it was 3 different places whith different people different times.
They have tested us to see what we can do in order to take us in a place that they believed a treasure was hidden.

But everytime we agreed others to test us there was allways open the option to go fishing if we fail.:D :lol:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9580/0424sv.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/0424sv.jpg/)

Best Whishes
g-sani

[hung]

The recent episode covering the deleting of a picture I posted in this forum displays a 'piece' of autoritarism besides censorship. This is no good at all for a public forum.
Actually this has some effects mostly on members who participate here regularly which is not my case anymore. I came to know that Gibon also had a picture deleted. So tough my picture was also deleted, the administrator's 'funny' picture remained.
Nice way of measuring things right?

So watch out.
I posted the following on TNET this morning and this might mean I might discuss there the role of administration in LRL forums sooner than I think... We'll see.

"The funny picture I posted above had a reason.
It was a parody towards Carl's forum 'administrator' who I fondly call 'ozzy' hence his nick has 'ozhi' in the end and who completely ignores lrl signals and dowsing related matters.
He posted a picture to ridicule one member who had presented a very interesting video about somebody making a recovery with some antenna rod.
When I entered my parody picture after his own, I was censored and it was deleted but his posted picture remained. So I decided to post it here to demonstrate TNET members what kind of administrator Carl houses in his forum. When things don't look good to him, he uses the kadaffi method.

As a matter of fact, when I have a little more time soon, I will talk about admnistration role in LRL forums."

[Fred]

Yes, until you see a real dowsing man. Then you will come with Us......:lol:

Regards:)
I don´t think so Geo: what i would like to see is a real proof, not a real dowsing man.

[Qiaozhi]

When I entered my parody picture after his own, I was censored and it was deleted but his posted picture remained.
I posted the picture to demonstrate one possible explanation for what we were seeing in the video. After that you posted some personal insults due to your inability to carry on an intelligent and non-abusive conversation. Your recent and past behaviour is not open for debate. Please stick with technical discussions and keep your personal abusive comments to yourself. You are heading in the right direction to join Ernie in the great unknown outside of Geotech.

[hung]

You confirm you got offended and took it personal as I had already stated. You shouldn't have done that. You started the idiot joke not me. I just followed your act representing the kind of mentality you display when it comes to dowsing related subjects and when you try to impose your mistaken comprehension on the subject over other members' views.
Since you are the one entitled 'administrator' here, you have the password to delete posts at will and according some rule to fit the occasion. I do not. So do as you please. I couldn't care less about you.

But I do care about justice and democratic expression. If you or anybody here care to review your past posts, it's pretty clear how you mix your role as administrator and moderator with that of a simple posting member.
I invite you to check the LRL forum in TNET on how an administrator/moderator should behave.
But don't worry. You will soon gain your 5 minute fame over there when I discuss the role of administrators in LRL forums.



Cheers.

[Qiaozhi]

I couldn't care less about you.

Hung - this is my last word on the subject. Forget about your disapproval and move on. You know the rules, so make sure you follow them. If you contribute to this forum in a constructive manner, your continued presence here will be assured. If not, you will be forced to take a sabbatical.

The subject of this thread is "Carl's phony LRL report", not "Hung's personal vendetta". :offtopic

Please stick to it.

[Geo]

I don´t think so Geo: what i would like to see is a real proof, not a real dowsing man.
The real dowsing man can show you the real proof, but my friend we are so far and i can't give you any proof.

Regards:)

[Mike(Mont)]

To be fair to Vernell Electronics, I do not think that unit Carl reported on was built by them. That one says V.R.800 and Vernell's units say VR(tm)800.

[homefire]

Ge, I wonder if TM means Trade Mark? :cool:

[J_Player]

To be fair to Vernell Electronics, I do not think that unit Carl reported on was built by them. That one says V.R.800 and Vernell's units say VR(tm)800.Mike(Mont) you are a liar!
You have been busted!

You know very well the Dell Systems LRL Carl-NC tested was built by Vernell and sold by Dell Winders with the Omnitron label on it.

Carl-NC described the equipment he tested here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56940
"...The shipping box said it came from Dell Systems. The manual said Dell Systems. The front of the unit said Dell Systems. The rear label said Dell Systems. Based on all that, I assumed the device came from Dell Systems. It makes no difference to me what individual actually designed the circuit, operated the soldering iron, or the hot glue gun".

Dell Winders states he used and sold Vernell products here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56818
"...The world knows, and Carl knows that at one time I used, & sold Vernell products. It's no secret. Dell"

Dell Winders tells how he came to sell LRLs made by VR Electronics here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13301#post56337 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56337&postcount=49)
"...Vernon Rose, (Vernell) did not start manufacturing FD's until 18 months later, which I also introduced to the market at competetive pricing to stop a profiteering monopoly that was taking place".
"...I added the name "Dell Systems" to "Omnitron" to make the distinction between other manufacturers "Omnitron" and my own".
"...I do not legally own the copyright patent for the name "Omnitron" or "Dell Systems" but I did obtain verbal permission to use the latter, not that it means anything".

But wait....
Mike(Mont) was posting in this same thread where Dell explained the details.
Read the link to see what dell posted -- then scroll down. Who else is making posts here? Not Mike(Mont)...!!? :eek: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13301#post56337 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13301#post56296)
You will see Mike(Mont) made 18 posts in that thread where Dell explained he was selling Vernell LRLs that with his label on them.

Mike(Mont) knew the truth all along..!! :nono:
And now he comes and spreads lies which he knows to be wrong information in the forum. Why?
To make false accusations against Carl-NC again ?
"...I do not think that unit Carl reported on was built by them".

It won't work, Mike(Mont)..!!
You can't fool us when we can read the truth.
You cannot delete your posts here like you do on other forums.


Best wishes,
J_P

p.s. V.R. is for Vernon Rose, founder of Vernell Electronics, and tm does indeed stand for trademark, which Dell says he had verbal permission to use.

[J_Player]

The real facts about the machine Carl-NC tested are in this thread where Dell and Mike(Mont) both posted: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13301 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56337&postcount=49)

In post 49, Dell finally tells the facts about how Vernon Rose had the labels made with the "Omnitron", and "Dell" name on them, and how he subsequently sold these LRLs that Vernon Rose manufactured. It would be stupid to try to convince anyone this is not true after you make your own forum posts in the same thread where Dell explained the facts.

But we see Mike(Mont) is posting false information in the Geotech forums a second time with the intent to make another false accusation against Carl-NC.
Does anyone really believe that somebody different than Vernell Rose manufactured Dell's Omnitron V.R. 800, when Dell tells us he did?

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2547&stc=1&d=1185683781



If you really wanted to get even with Carl-NC, then why not show he is a stupid skeptic by proving he is wrong about how well your LRL works and take away his $25,000?
What happened?
You can't do that?
So the best you can do is make up a pack of lies to make false accusations instead? :nono:


Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

I said "I think", and unless that means something other than I can't say for sure, how can that be a lie? Unless of course you are insinuating that I intentionally meant to deceive, in which case your mind reading is not accurate, either. I was actually trying to be honest and let someone off the hook on this one since if it wasn't built by Vernell there is a remote possibility that whoever built it did use different frequencies. However, one frequency does match the Vernell Six, so go figure. I might have read that Dell was licensed to build them but I don't recall. So I'm not convinced. Clearly they do not have the same model name.

[J_Player]

I said "I think", and unless that means something other than I can't say for sure, how can that be a lie? Unless of course you are insinuating that I intentionally meant to deceive, in which case your mind reading is not accurate, either. I was actually trying to be honest and let someone off the hook on this one since if it wasn't built by Vernell there is a remote possibility that whoever built it did use different frequencies. However, one frequency does match the Vernell Six, so go figure. I might have read that Dell was licensed to build them but I don't recall. So I'm not convinced.You started this thread with these opening words: "...I feel it is my civic duty to report that the VR-800 report is way off".
And now you try to pass off "I think" as your sorry excuse to say it is ok to make false accusations?

Read your words:
"To be fair to Vernell Electronics, I do not think that unit Carl reported on was built by them. That one says V.R.800 and Vernell's units say VR(tm)800".

Yes... That is a LIE..!!!

You know very well it was built by Vernell because Dell said it was.
Dell explained all about the nameplates and trademark.
You read the same forum posts we did.
You don't have to recall, because I posted the link where you can read Dell's words and your own words in the same thread!
You cannot think it was built by someone else unless you have serious brain dysfunctions.
Have you ever considered it is your civic duty to apologize when you are aware that you made false accusations?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

I was actually trying to be honest and let someone off the hook on this one...

I'm shocked you didn't pick up on this one. Your meds or whatever you are on seem to have dulled your brain to a dumbed-down state (see, I didn't use the word "stupid").
Whoa, you are going to have a bad hangover.

[homefire]

You all are http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/BeatDeadHorse.gifBecause he is just going to go round and round and round.


LOL

[J_Player]

You all are http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/BeatDeadHorse.gifBecause he is just going to go round and round and round.


LOL

Well... Yah,
He starts out the thread to talk about Carl's phony LRL report.
Then, when he can't answer Carl to tell what is deceptive in his report, he tries to use fake information to say Vernell did not build this machine.
Then he gets busted and pretends he was "trying to be honest, to let some one off the hook", while not stopping to think that you can't be honest when you are spreading information you know is false. :rolleyes:

It seems pretty clear the only time he was telling the truth was when he said he does not read 95% of what is in this forum.
No need to show Mike(Mont) the facts that cannot be erased.
When he can't cope with facts, he will just make derogatory insults which I suppose makes him feel better. :nolisten


Best wishes,
J_P

[homefire]

You know whats going on, Everone else knows whats going on. I know whats going on.

The sad part is I'm not so sure Mike knows what going on. LOL

I wonder if Mike was the one that Poked me in the eye? :rolleyes:

How I learned to mind my own business....

I was walking past the mental http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/Christz_pillepalle[1].gifhospital the other day,
And all the patients were shouting, '13....13.....13.'

The fence was too high to see over, but I saw a
Little gap in the planks, so when I looked through to see
What was going on http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/confused0083[1].gif.....Some idiot poked me in the eye with a stick!

Then they all started shouting '14....14....14'... http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/happy0204[1].gif http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/happy0204[1].gif http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/happy0204[1].gif

[Mike(Mont)]

BTW, it's called the Vernell 'Standard Six' tm. Sorry, I'm not reading any more posts. There is no intelligent life forms here. To rephrase that, you guys are talking out your rear on a topic you know nothing about, sort of like on t-net.

[Jim]

BTW, it's called the Vernell 'Standard Six' tm. Sorry, I'm not reading any more posts. There is no intelligent life forms here. To rephrase that, you guys are talking out your rear on a topic you know nothing about, sort of like on t-net.

Dearest Mike... have you ever thought about exactly what "VERNELL" stood for, you blundering idiot.


Love ya, SWR

[Mike(Mont)]

Down, Bowser.

[Mike(Mont)]

Mike(Mont) you are a liar!
You have been busted!

You know very well the Dell Systems LRL Carl-NC tested was built by Vernell and sold by Dell Winders with the Omnitron label on it.

Carl-NC described the equipment he tested here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56940
"...The shipping box said it came from Dell Systems. The manual said Dell Systems. The front of the unit said Dell Systems. The rear label said Dell Systems. Based on all that, I assumed the device came from Dell Systems. It makes no difference to me what individual actually designed the circuit, operated the soldering iron, or the hot glue gun".

Dell Winders states he used and sold Vernell products here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56818
"...The world knows, and Carl knows that at one time I used, & sold Vernell products. It's no secret. Dell"

Dell Winders tells how he came to sell LRLs made by VR Electronics here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13301#post56337 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56337&postcount=49)
"...Vernon Rose, (Vernell) did not start manufacturing FD's until 18 months later, which I also introduced to the market at competetive pricing to stop a profiteering monopoly that was taking place".
"...I added the name "Dell Systems" to "Omnitron" to make the distinction between other manufacturers "Omnitron" and my own".
"...I do not legally own the copyright patent for the name "Omnitron" or "Dell Systems" but I did obtain verbal permission to use the latter, not that it means anything".

But wait....
Mike(Mont) was posting in this same thread where Dell explained the details.
Read the link to see what dell posted -- then scroll down. Who else is making posts here? Not Mike(Mont)...!!? :eek: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13301#post56337 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13301#post56296)
You will see Mike(Mont) made 18 posts in that thread where Dell explained he was selling Vernell LRLs that with his label on them.

Mike(Mont) knew the truth all along..!! :nono:
And now he comes and spreads lies which he knows to be wrong information in the forum. Why?
To make false accusations against Carl-NC again ?
"...I do not think that unit Carl reported on was built by them".

It won't work, Mike(Mont)..!!
You can't fool us when we can read the truth.
You cannot delete your posts here like you do on other forums.


Best wishes,
J_P

p.s. V.R. is for Vernon Rose, founder of Vernell Electronics, and tm does indeed stand for trademark, which Dell says he had verbal permission to use.

Down, Bowser!:nono: Bad dog!

[Fred]

Sorry, I'm not reading any more posts. There is no intelligent life forms here.

Then:

Down, Bowser.
Down, Bowser!:nono: Bad dog!

http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/Christz_pillepalle%5B1%5D.gif

:clap

[Carl-NC]

I said "I think", and unless that means something other than I can't say for sure, how can that be a lie?

Your first words were "Carl's phony LRL report," with the conclusion that I'm unethical, and now you're not so sure? You only think? You don't really know?

Mike, here is what I know. I know the VR800 is a piece of garbage, regardless of who made it. It know it has no ability to detect or locate gold. I'm $25,000 sure of that.

I know that you're a braggart who can't do the things you think you can do. I know you can't successfully use an LRL or even dowse better than random guessing. I'm $25,000 sure of that. And I know you're equally sure of it, too.