H3Tec sad testimonial

[Carl-NC]

I finally got to watch Nat Geo's Secret History of Gold. It featured a segment on a fellow who used an early H3 (basically just dowsing rods, plus a little magic box) to look for 80 bars of gold in a cave. As usual, it was another complete failure, with accompanying alibis.

This is, of course, Chuck's #1 testimonial. Personally, I would have chosen one where gold was actually found.

[WM6]

This is, of course, Chuck's #1 testimonial. Personally, I would have chosen one where gold was actually found.



They actually found gold in Grandmother gift box.

[Mike(Mont)]

I'm certainly not here to defend H3TEC. I think their prices are obscene. I have never used one so I don't know. Anyone here tried one? Didn't think so but that never stopped anyone from claiming they kknow all about it. I know someone who bought one and they didn't have much good to say about it, but I don't know if they are skilled enough to use one. I also heard second hand that another person who owns one likes it.

I've said I doubt many of these people who own one really know how to use it. Like the guy in the NatGeo show, I question his skill. A person gets a map and guess what? They are dead-set on the rod pulling to that spot on the map. That's the get-rich-quick fever I preach against. That's the same manic depression syndrome that all the skeptics cannot overcome. So they blame the LRL when it is really their own fault. That's what I mean when I talk about ego problems. Add to that a person who makes their living in the metal detector business and you definitely have a recipe for disaster.

[Qiaozhi]

I'm certainly not here to defend H3TEC. I think their prices are obscene. I have never used one so I don't know. Anyone here tried one? Didn't think so but that never stopped anyone from claiming they kknow all about it. I know someone who bought one and they didn't have much good to say about it, but I don't know if they are skilled enough to use one. I also heard second hand that another person who owns one likes it.

I've said I doubt many of these people who own one really know how to use it. Like the guy in the NatGeo show, I question his skill. A person gets a map and guess what? They are dead-set on the rod pulling to that spot on the map. That's the get-rich-quick fever I preach against. That's the same manic depression syndrome that all the skeptics cannot overcome. So they blame the LRL when it is really their own fault. That's what I mean when I talk about ego problems. Add to that a person who makes their living in the metal detector business and you definitely have a recipe for disaster.
It's hard to try not to smile ... :lol: (Oops! I failed.)

[Mike(Mont)]

Anyone here think that show was real? They acted like they found those tree markers in front of the camera. Remember they had the guy look it up in his notes? That's most likely BS. They were so sure the gold was in that cave they brought the camera crew with them. That's biased just like every skeptic.

[Carl-NC]

Anyone here tried one? Didn't think so...

I have.

Add to that a person who makes their living in the metal detector business and you definitely have a recipe for disaster.

Gotta watch those folks in the shovel business as well... they're a wily bunch!

[Mike(Mont)]

Hey, I've seen the same thing in the LRL business...and they should know better. BTW, why doesn't white's build a cache detector?

[Mike(Mont)]

Cat got your tongue? The correct answer is "There is no money in it. They'd have to charge as much as an LRL."

[malkjos]

They actually found gold in Grandmother gift box.
what is your email ?
I want to ask something ?

[J_Player]

I'm certainly not here to defend H3TEC. I think their prices are obscene. I have never used one so I don't know. Anyone here tried one? Didn't think so but that never stopped anyone from claiming they kknow all about it. I know someone who bought one and they didn't have much good to say about it, but I don't know if they are skilled enough to use one. I also heard second hand that another person who owns one likes it.

I've said I doubt many of these people who own one really know how to use it. Like the guy in the NatGeo show, I question his skill. A person gets a map and guess what? They are dead-set on the rod pulling to that spot on the map. That's the get-rich-quick fever I preach against. That's the same manic depression syndrome that all the skeptics cannot overcome. So they blame the LRL when it is really their own fault. That's what I mean when I talk about ego problems. Add to that a person who makes their living in the metal detector business and you definitely have a recipe for disaster.Blame?
Whose fault is it when an H3Tec fails to find the metal it is claimed to find?
How can anyone know anything about H3Tec who did not try one?

Everyone who I read about trying an H3Tec locator said they don't work except people associated with the manufacturer.
But what else can we learn without actually trying an H3Tec without trying it?
A lot.

1. The internal circuitry is fake.
It has a circuit board and a proprietary program to locate metals. But the front end and sensors for this circuit are bogus dowsing rods that are not connected in a manner that could deliver a signal.
See here and read downward: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=119972#post119972
The dowsing rod which is claimed to send out a signal to excite the isotope that is selected is connected to a ground wire, not to a signal wire.
Also read the patent. The claims are not the same as what the H3Tec factory propaganda says it does.
It appears that H3Tec lied to us about this isotope signal stuff.

2. When the H3Tec people were searching for silver during their demonstration, they were not able to detect Carl's 10 oz silver bar he had in his pocket when he walked in front of them.
Nor were they able to locate the silver coins that Tim Williams hid for them to find.
The owner of H3Tec told us a lie to explain why the locator failed to detect Carl's bar of silver.
He said it was set for a different isotope of silver that is found in coins... not in a silver bar.
See here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=87892#post87892
And here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=87935#post87935
Ask any physicist about this. It is either a lie or the owner of H3Tec has no clue about the physics of silver and its isotopes.

3. H3Tec lied when they posted this picture on their website to depict the US military training when they stated "H3 Tec is in the army and on the ground protecting our troops in the Middle East".
They also posted information saying "The US Army ordered new and improved H3 for the army in the war theater".
These are both lies but they are still posted on the H3Tec main page.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12054&stc=1&d=1273398466

Read about it here: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=375415.0

4. H3Tec lied when they represented their locator as having won the Utah Innovation Award.
The attorney for the presenter of this award confirmed they did not win this award. See here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=124609#post124609

5. H3Tec lied when they said their detector had to pass double blind tests at for their claims certifications Chemir Labs.
Chemir Labs says they do not perform double blind tests. See here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=119622

6. If you watch the National Geographic's "Secret History of Gold" video, you will see that what they printed about their detector locating the gold is also a lie.

So far I listed six provable lies H3Tec told to try to fool people into thinking their locator is highly respected and actually detects things.
We also have seen the wiring inside the locator which proves they lied about sending out a signal which excites the isotope of the substance you are looking for in a grid up to 10 miles square.

This is what we can learn about H3Tec without trying it out. And for $10,000 each plus annual software fees, I would rather conclude they told a pack of lies to promote their fake detector.
Maybe I would believe them if they really did a double blind test instead of lying about doing a double blind test.
Or maybe if they were able to find the coins that Tim Williams hid for them.
Or maybe if they really found the gold that they lied about finding in the National Geographic video.

Maybe this is a good piece of equipment for people who like to spend large sums of money to associate with liars.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

BTW, why doesn't white's build a cache detector?

We do. Two of 'em, in fact. One's selling like hot cakes.

[WM6]

what is your email ?
I want to ask something ?

I think that my email is public in my profile. You can also PM to me.

[Zocky-Zocky]

Dear friends!
if anyone has to set up PDF manual for the handling of this H3Tec device.
Thanks in advance!
Regards!
Zocky-Zocky

[Mike(Mont)]

jp, I told you I am not here to defend H3TEC. Your words mean nothing to me as I consider every skeptic (and even some claimed-to-be proponents) to be unqualified to even discuss LRL's. You really need to get over the holier-than-thou logic thing you have. Here's a book for you "Knowing Your Intuitive Mind".

[Mike(Mont)]

We do. Two of 'em, in fact. One's selling like hot cakes.

I do not consider the two-box to be a cache detector. Even White's never originally claimed it to be one. It was marketed as an "Industrial Locator" and I'm sure it works fine for septic tanks, etc. I tried one in mineralized ground.

I don't see any other but I assume you are talking about the TDI. I didn't see any large (one meter square or larger) coils for it. How does it compare to the other P.I. cache locators on the market when using the large coils? Not interested in the small coils.

[fenixdigger]

I have also used one. It did lock targets, but none turned out to be what we were looking for.

Until I DIG an intended target, it does not "work" Locking a signal is not the same as finding a predetermined target.

Way too much money for those results.

If they were to say, " split the first 2 large finds and get your deposit back or return it and get your money back" that would be different.

Hold your breath on that to happen.

[Mike(Mont)]

jp, I told you I am not here to defend H3TEC. Your words mean nothing to me as I consider every skeptic (and even some claimed-to-be proponents) to be unqualified to even discuss LRL's. You really need to get over the holier-than-thou logic thing you have. Here's a book for you "Knowing Your Intuitive Mind".

I am not referring to Tim. I'm talking about those who do not know what a signal line is.

[Qiaozhi]

I am not referring to Tim. I'm talking about those who do not know what a signal line is.
Since "signal lines" do not exist ... and you claim to know what one is ... :???: ... the phrase "horribly confused" come to mind. :rolleyes:

Wishful thinking, selective memory and self delusion are products of the "intuitive mind". Try not to let it dominate your life ... or perhaps it's already too late? :D

[Mike(Mont)]

I know most all skeptics live by logic--it is their god. Don't get me wrong, I have a very logical mind developed through years of geometry and higher math. I read somewhere those that live by the left brain are severly handicapped. I also read that some people considered to be mentally retarded can dowse. Go figure.

I will make a couple comments about this thread. I've mentioned this before, at treasure shows there is so much electronic interference I doubt any LRL will work. Also there is the fact that at times LRL's just don't work. Some metal detectors won't work, either!!!Some people refuse to accept this fact. As for signal lines, I have my doubts about the H3TEC designers whether they understand what a signal line is. This is the discrimination and it appears to be similar to what is now called Witricity. If I was to use an H3TEC I would set it on the ground and walk around it to find the discriminated signal line--maybe even build my own antenna for it.

[fenixdigger]

Q; You are correct. Signal lines do not exist. That is just what we call it. We are looking for the "connection" between similar substances. I can't remember the location of the report that was done on this, but it has to do with the sub-atomic frequency caused by the valence rings.

When you get down to this level, who knows how far it will go? It is a minuscule amount of energy as we perceive it, but can we perceive the energy in a grain of sand? Let it release all of it's energy and see what happens. Remember E=mc2.

As one that has taken 2 good hits of spent uranium, I understand atomic and sub-atomic theory pretty well. Our current knowledge is still limited as far as variables at this level
ie; vibratory harmonics, magnetic variations, etc.

People like Tesla, Keeley, Rife, Reich, have all been poo-hawed, due to dealing with topics that cannot be "seen". Doesn't make it false, just "unseen"

[Qiaozhi]

Q; You are correct. Signal lines do not exist. That is just what we call it. We are looking for the "connection" between similar substances. I can't remember the location of the report that was done on this, but it has to do with the sub-atomic frequency caused by the valence rings.

When you get down to this level, who knows how far it will go? It is a minuscule amount of energy as we perceive it, but can we perceive the energy in a grain of sand? Let it release all of it's energy and see what happens. Remember E=mc2.

As one that has taken 2 good hits of spent uranium, I understand atomic and sub-atomic theory pretty well. Our current knowledge is still limited as far as variables at this level
ie; vibratory harmonics, magnetic variations, etc.

People like Tesla, Keeley, Rife, Reich, have all been poo-hawed, due to dealing with topics that cannot be "seen". Doesn't make it false, just "unseen"
If (as you claim) you "understand atomic and sub-atomic theory pretty well"; you would not be making such statements as "it has to do with the sub-atomic frequency caused by the valence rings". This is just pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.

[J_Player]

jp, I told you I am not here to defend H3TEC. Your words mean nothing to me as I consider every skeptic (and even some claimed-to-be proponents) to be unqualified to even discuss LRL's. You really need to get over the holier-than-thou logic thing you have. Here's a book for you "Knowing Your Intuitive Mind".

...I am not referring to Tim. I'm talking about those who do not know what a signal line is.Hi Mike(Mont),
Once again, you are demonstrating your failure to recognize what my words are here for.
I never said you were here to defend U3Tec. We can all read how you made that point clear in your first post.
Perhaps you should go back and read what was written and maybe understand that I was addressing two statements you made which seem a bit odd to me.
(These two statements coming from someone who claims to have a very logical mind developed through years of geometry and higher math).
If you scroll back you will see I was addressing these two statements you made:
I have never used one so I don't know. Anyone here tried one? Didn't think so but that never stopped anyone from claiming they kknow all about it. and:
... So they blame the LRL when it is really their own fault.

And you also recall this is an open forum... ie: a place where people can discuss ideas, which is exactly what I did.

In case you didn't understand it, I offered an alternate opinion to your statement that "people blame the LRL when it is really their own fault".
In some cases what you say about blaming the equipment could be true.
But there is an overwhelming body of evidence in the case of H3Tec that leads any normal person to believe the thing does not work.
A normal person would feel that they are correct if they blamed the H3Tec locator for not finding hidden treasure instead of blaming themselves.
H3Tec has been caught telling a long list of lies designed to make it appear their locator actually works, while at the same time, they refuse to actually perform the blind testing they lied about.
Any arguments that there is electrical interference at a treasure show is a moot point, because the signal that they claimed was being sent to "excite the selected isotope" was discovered to be connected to a grounded wire, not to a wire with a signal from their circuitry. It does not take high logic to figure out H3Tec has no substantial supporting evidence to suggest their locator can locate anything, especially when it fails every time to locate things that are hidden by someone who is not associated with the manufacturer. The evidence they have turns out to be a pack of lies they posted on their website.

So you are not referring to Tim Williams? Why should we exclude him?
He was there with Carl-NC hiding silver for the H3Tec people to find.
You expect we will ignore the fact that H3Tec failed to find the coins he hid because you say we shouldn't include his testimony?

This is getting stupid.
No normal minded person will ignore evidence that could cost them $10,000+ to buy non-working treasure finders.
What next? ... Should we ignore all the lies that H3Tec got caught with because we haven't actually tried one of their locators? :nono:
The evidence of their lies is all over the internet. Read the links in my post to check it out.... http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=125147#post125147

I never said anything holier than you did, I only offered a second point of view for people who have not actually tried an H3Tec locator, but have noticed a long trail of lies coming from the manufacturer.
My idea is for people who noticed H3Tec lied about a high-tech isotope-exciting signal which was discovered to be a non-signal that was only a grounded wire.
My idea is for people who wonder why the owner of H3Tec lied in the Geotech forum, saying silver bars have different silver isotopes than are found in silver coins to explain why his locator doesn't work.
My idea is for people who wonder why H3Tec lied about their locator finding gold at the National Geographic presentation.
People can read your idea, or my alternate idea and choose which they think is more useful for their purposes.

If my words mean nothing to you, then why bother to make replies to them twice?
You could simply ignore my meaningless words.

Best wishes,
J_P

[fenixdigger]

I must have been mistaken. By chance have you been involved in atomic weapons or fissionable materials? Are you saying that elements do not have a unique
frequency based on their atomic make up?

[Qiaozhi]

As for signal lines, I have my doubts about the H3TEC designers whether they understand what a signal line is

Q; You are correct. Signal lines do not exist.
Unfortunately the LRL / dowsing proponents cannot even agree on one of their most basic assumptions. :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

I must have been mistaken. By chance have you been involved in atomic weapons or fissionable materials? Are you saying that elements do not have a unique
frequency based on their atomic make up?Hi fenixdigger,

I also believe that elements can be detected from a long distance by using electronics which can recognize and measure isotopes of the element. In fact this has been done for decades using electronic machines that find a variety of buried metals. And you are correct, the energy from these isotopes is minuscule to the point that the background noise makes it hard for the electronics to see the signal from the isotopes. Yet there are working electronic detectors that can locate gold and other elements from many miles away using gamma spectroscopy methods. Even the best of these electronic instruments has to deal with the background noise and other interfering energy signals, but modern electronics could be used to improve the detection efficiency.

But I seriously doubt that H3Tec will ever detect any isotopes for the simple reason that they are using fake electronics.
You can see they connected a grounded wire to a dowsing rod, and claimed this is used to send out a signal up to 10 miles that "excites the isotope" that you can select using their software.
Read here and down to see there is a single ground wire connected to a dowsing rod... no signal at all: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=119972#post119972

How can a grounded dowsing rod compare to a gamma scintillator with its classifying spectroscope in a satellite, or in a portable ground unit?
Are we expected to believe that a grounded dowsing rod is "exciting" isotopes in a grid up to 10 miles square?
If so, then why would H3Tec claim the isotopes are excited by the signal coming from the locator?
Why wouldn't they tell us the truth... that they expect us excite the isotopes for 10 miles by holding holding a grounded dowsing rod?

And why would the owner of H3Tec tell us they cannot find silver bars if their locator is set for the isotope found in silver coins?
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...7892#post87892 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=87892#post87892)
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...7935#post87935

This is an outright lie. Silver coins and bars both have the same percent of each silver isotope regardless of how they were manufactured or what they are alloyed with.
That excuse cannot work to explain why the locator fails to find silver.

I am with you. I think there are undiscovered methods to find buried metals at long range by detecting isotopes.
But from what I see, The H3Tec people are living out their Startreck fantasy dream of a treasure tricorder that they expect their customers to finance by buying their grounded dowsing rods.
All that other crap on the circuit board appears to be there only to convince people it is really is a tricorder, and is worth a lot of money.

Did you ever consider that if you removed the batteries from the H3Tec locator, you would have found the same results as you did with them connected?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

As one that has taken 2 good hits of spent uranium, I understand atomic and sub-atomic theory pretty well. Our current knowledge is still limited as far as variables at this level ie; vibratory harmonics, magnetic variations, etc.

People like Tesla, Keeley, Rife, Reich, have all been poo-hawed, due to dealing with topics that cannot be "seen". Doesn't make it false, just "unseen"

Ok, why not, LRL´s are new discoveries and technologies too advanced to be explained...But then why have their practical uses never been demonstrated?
People like the ones you mentioned used to demonstrate their find by experiments, even if they were wrong about explanations .

[Jim]

I must have been mistaken. By chance have you been involved in atomic weapons or fissionable materials? Are you saying that elements do not have a unique
frequency based on their atomic make up?

Are you saying the basic frequency generator will replicate the effects of a Nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy (NMR spectroscopy)?

[fenixdigger]

Jim, not a chance. But it could hit a harmonic of the actually frequency. Now, it is an accident when that happens, which is what causes the % of finds to be so low.

When you do get close, you are also in a harmonic of several other elements, as the S/G is not nearly precise enough to "hit" gold or silver by themselves.

Understand that a sample target on top of the ground is not the same as a long buried target. Here's where the scam comes in. IF a device can locate a sample, that doesn't mean
it can find buried targets.

[fenixdigger]

Fred;

I can't speak for anyone outside my circle. Some of the phenomena I have seen has only happened once. To think it could be reproduced on demand is out of the question.

We are lucky to have any success 1 out of 8 or 10 trips. Too many variables with current equipment. However, after the last trip, my southern counterpart has made recovery every time he has went. I haven't had time to prove out the last changes we developed.

He says they are working, but until I see it,, well you know. I've heard that before.

[Fred]

I see.
So, from your personal experience, and in other words, it doesn´t really work, and we don´t know why. :)

[Carl-NC]

Understand that a sample target on top of the ground is not the same as a long buried target. Here's where the scam comes in. IF a device can locate a sample, that doesn't mean
it can find buried targets.

The punch line to the whole joke is, that none of the LRLs can even locate a sample target.

[J_Player]

The punch line to the whole joke is, that none of the LRLs can even locate a sample target.This is a $10,000+ joke... :lol:

It won't stop being a joke until people think they should rely on it to keep them safe from explosives in a war zone.

Best wishes,
J_P

[fenixdigger]

Fred;
you may want to read that one again. If that's what came out of my statement, it wasn"t what I meant. More like it's not reliable for the exact target every time.

Carl ,I know. We just guess so much better than we should it feels better to say it that way. We already tried the little experiment about throwing the 10 golf balls out and it did work just like you said in the yard. Except we did not find silver or gold. The farmhouse has been there for over 100yrs,,,,but when we threw them in the field,,,,, well you don't want to hear that one again. On with the "guessing".

[fenixdigger]

Let me give you an example of one of these 1 time only episodes. For those that don't want to believe it, I'm lying. For those that want to hear what happened, here it is.

We were on an Island where treasure had been found years ago in several spots.

I set a machine (that does not work) up and could not get a stable lock. It kept moving around. I kept fooling with the fine tuning (which does not work) and it kept moving.
As it was going into the wind, I kept thinking maybe a radar antenna was messing with it.

It was at a 90 deg angle and one of the crew popped up over a hill right where it was pointed, and as he walked down the dune it followed him. I asked him what he had been doing and it was the same track i had been following. I had put in the wrong numbers and have never been able to make it do that again.

Now, if I was tricking myself, should I not be able to trick myself again when I wanted it to do that? I'm sure there is some convoluted reason someone will come up with but it may not be the truth, only comfortable.

[Jim]

Jim, not a chance. But it could hit a harmonic of the actually frequency. Now, it is an accident when that happens, which is what causes the % of finds to be so low.

When you do get close, you are also in a harmonic of several other elements, as the S/G is not nearly precise enough to "hit" gold or silver by themselves.

Understand that a sample target on top of the ground is not the same as a long buried target. Here's where the scam comes in. IF a device can locate a sample, that doesn't mean
it can find buried targets.

No sir. The basic frequency generator cannot "hit a harmonic of the actually frequency". This is the same gobbledygook LRL salesmen use, and gullible victims fall for. :nono:

[fenixdigger]

I was certainly wrong. Thanks for helping me with that. I could have saved a lot of training if I would have just come here sooner. Pity

Could you give me an idea of a short list of the actual lower harmonics of gold, say around the -10 magnitude?

[Carl-NC]

Carl ,I know. We just guess so much better than we should it feels better to say it that way. We already tried the little experiment about throwing the 10 golf balls out and it did work just like you said in the yard. Except we did not find silver or gold. The farmhouse has been there for over 100yrs,,,,but when we threw them in the field,,,,, well you don't want to hear that one again. On with the "guessing".

And yet the punch line still applies.

[fenixdigger]

If they called them"Guessing Enhancers", would you feel better? I would refer to them as GEs from now on if it would be easier on everybody.

Maybe some day you can see just how well we have refined this guessing. Who knows?

Bottom line, I am on your side on any device that is promoted to find explosives or is over priced.

Not even metal detectors are safe to use with proximity, plastic, or remote det. bombs.

Got to run,got a guessing experiment cooking outside.

[Jim]

I was certainly wrong. Thanks for helping me with that. I could have saved a lot of training if I would have just come here sooner. Pity

Could you give me an idea of a short list of the actual lower harmonics of gold, say around the -10 magnitude?

Of course you were wrong. If your training had anything to do with NMR spectroscopy or how to obtain NMR frequencies your "training" was a laughing failure.

[fenixdigger]

I was being facetious. You wouldn't have caught it though.

Was the list in that cute little answer? And I'm sooo impressed as is everyone else.

If you can't answer the question, no need to be testy.

Now of course i may be wrong again, but I doubt you have ever had to "double" dress to enter a "Hot" area as I have, so I'm thinking you have no first hand knowledge of what you
"think" you are talking about.

A simple "I don't know about the harmonics" would be a lot better than an attack like that.

One more time and you get the IGNORE treatment. Kisses

[Jim]

I was being facetious.



I think being foolish is more apt. Either way, you are a laugh.

[fenixdigger]

Yes , I was foolish to think you could answer the question. Since you are here just to argue
say hello to my little friend--- the ignore button

[Jim]

Yes , I was foolish to think you could answer the question. Since you are here just to argue
say hello to my little friend--- the ignore button

Yes, you are foolish. Many on this forum will agree

[Mike(Mont)]

Remember what Christopher Hills said,to paraphrase "Secondhand knowledge on this subject is about as much use as reason is to a mindless fool."

[fenixdigger]

Hi Mike;

Have you tried the stainless yet? We are having good results. A lot of signals that we had chased dropped out and some stayed in and intensified. Much easier to pinpoint now.

[Mike(Mont)]

What are you using, welding rod? Is there a special alloy?

[fenixdigger]

We are using rods made out of a 3 ft long 1/8 and a 3/16 welding stick. Buy 2 extra ones and email me before you go out. I use the heavier one in high winds or for more discrimination.

[Mike(Mont)]

The "300" series alloys are non-magnetic. I guess this is what you are using. That rod I sent you is just very slightly magnetic. It's best to ground any of them before each search.

[fenixdigger]

Right, they are E R 308 L . I was trying to copy yours, but they are dam hard to work with.

[Tim Williams]

No sir. The basic frequency generator cannot "hit a harmonic of the actually frequency". This is the same gobbledygook LRL salesmen use, and gullible victims fall for. :nono:

Maybe you should watch this before stating your facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aRKAXD4dAg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You may learn something.

[Qiaozhi]

Maybe you should watch this before stating your facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aRKAXD4dAg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You may learn something.
OK - this is very basic stuff ..... and your point is? :nerd:

[Tim Williams]

Point is all nmr frequencies of elements are in audio range in the earths field. Didn't you watch the videos?

[Fred]

Fred;
you may want to read that one again. If that's what came out of my statement, it wasn"t what I meant. More like it's not reliable for the exact target every time.
If i had a gun that correspond to this description i would say it doens´t work.And is dangerous, and shouldn´t be sold.

[fenixdigger]

Hi Tim;

It's the same story as the other forums, he's just here to argue and run people off. I think most people here have him on Ignore as I do now.

There are some really sharp guys here, and they try to do things besides argue. Way out of his league.

[fenixdigger]

Not quite Fred. Closer to say "The barrel is bent" It works on more than it should. So you "miss" the intended target a lot. But you will find things.

[Qiaozhi]

Point is all nmr frequencies of elements are in audio range in the earths field. Didn't you watch the videos?
Yes, but NMR and MRI have absolutely nothing to do with MFDs. On the contrary, MFD manufacturers are borrowing concepts, they don't understand, from the real world of science, and twisting them into pseudo-scientific ideas in an attempt to give credence to their non-working products.

H3Tec is a slightly more sophisticated attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the technically challenged.

[J_Player]

Point is all nmr frequencies of elements are in audio range in the earths field. Didn't you watch the videos?

Originally posted by: Qiaozhi
Yes, but NMR and MRI have absolutely nothing to do with MFDs. On the contrary, MFD manufacturers are borrowing concepts, they don't understand, from the real world of science, and twisting them into pseudo-scientific ideas in an attempt to give credence to their non-working products.

H3Tec is a slightly more sophisticated attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the technically challenged.Hi Tim,
You are correct that the precession frequencies are in the audio range when in the earth's magnetic field.
But there are three reasons why Qiaozhi is correct that the precession frequencies have nothing to do with MFD and especially do not apply to the H3Tec:

1. If you watch the videos, you will learn that precession frequency is detected by using a magnetic field which is accomplished with a coil provide a uniform field around a sample, and a second coil to sense the fluctuations after the field is removed. We see MFD devices do not use coils to create a field or to sense fluctuations in the magnetic field of a sample.

2. The narrator in the video shows how it is necessary to place the sample in a very strong magnetic field 350 times stronger than the earth's field to get a suitable amount of precession to measure above the background noise.
The sample must be placed inside the sensor coil in order for the sensor to detect the precession.
None of his demonstrations could work without placing the sample in this highly controlled magnetic environment for measuring precession.
We remember in the video how the narrator removed the water sample from the coils in order to show they got a real signal when it was inside the coil, and it disappeared and showed only noise when it was removed.
But MFD has only the earth's field to act as a pseudo uniform field, and the sensor is non-magnetic, and is located nowhere near the sample to be measured.
The MFD stimulator is not a strong magnetic field, but a very low power signal generator usually running at 5 volts.
This signal is an electrical voltage signal on a wire, not a uniform magnetic field.
Any tiny trace of magnetism which could be induced by a small movement of current is millions of times smaller than the 20 Tesla field which the narrator used in his demonstration.

This is pretty convincing evidence that MFD signal generators have nothing to do with NMR/MRI methods.
I would think if MFD could work at all, it could not work on the principle of precession detection.
And so far I have seen no evidence that MFD works at all except anecdotal stories.
But I have seen evidence that it does not work in actual field experiments.

3. In the case of H3Tec, we can compare the equipment to MFD because it has a circuit board which is claimed to send out a signal.
The manufacturer claims a signal is sent to the smaller of the two dowsing rods in order to excite the isotope which you select in a grid up to 10 miles square.
But when Carl took apart the small dowsing rod, he found it was connected to a ground wire, not a signal wire. This is outright fraud.
They lied about sending out a signal to the small dowsing rod.
So the H3Tec locator cannot excite atoms using NMR, or MRI methods or MFD methods.
I believe that even you witnessed the H3Tec failing to find the silver coins it was set to find in the field.

It looks to me like you are right that precession frequencies are in the audio range in the earth's field, and Qiaozhi is right about how NMR and MRI have absolutely nothing to do with MFDs.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Tim Williams]

Yes, but NMR and MRI have absolutely nothing to do with MFDs. On the contrary, MFD manufacturers are borrowing concepts, they don't understand, from the real world of science, and twisting them into pseudo-scientific ideas in an attempt to give credence to their non-working products.

H3Tec is a slightly more sophisticated attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the technically challenged.


I've been driving for all day. I never said it did. I never said H3tec had anything to do with my post. Read SWR's post. I understand completely about NMR and MRI. If NMR did not exist you would not have MRI! MFD is term used by Dell as the frequency at which elements resonate. Guess where it was taken from? The frequencies of NMR. So if I tell you that 197 Gold resonates at 36.80hz @ 50nt Would I be liying? Or 107 Ag @ 86.16? How about H @ 2128.58hz? Those are not harmonics.

People using generators all these years and been using many frequencies in the audio range. So what? Science has not proven that dowsing using generators works. I've always said that even on my site. But prople are still locating using MFD systems.

Tim

[Tim Williams]

Hi Tim,
You are correct that the precession frequencies are in the audio range when in the earth's magnetic field.
But there are three reasons why Qiaozhi is correct that the precession frequencies have nothing to do with MFD and especially do not apply to the H3Tec:

1. If you watch the videos, you will learn that precession frequency is detected by using a magnetic field which is accomplished with a coil provide a uniform field around a sample, and a second coil to sense the fluctuations after the field is removed. We see MFD devices do not use coils to create a field or to sense fluctuations in the magnetic field of a sample.

True It's only used to tilt the axis of the proton. Then that field is turned off. That's when the earths field comes in. The tilts re-align to the earths field and that's where the NMR is read.

2. The narrator in the video shows how it is necessary to place the sample in a very strong magnetic field 350 times stronger than the earth's field to get a suitable amount of precession to measure above the background noise.
The sample must be placed inside the sensor coil in order for the sensor to detect the precession.
None of his demonstrations could work without placing the sample in this highly controlled magnetic environment for measuring precession.
We remember in the video how the narrator removed the water sample from the coils in order to show they got a real signal when it was inside the coil, and it disappeared and showed only noise when it was removed.

Of course.

But MFD has only the earth's field to act as a pseudo uniform field, and the sensor is non-magnetic, and is located nowhere near the sample to be measured.
The MFD stimulator is not a strong magnetic field, but a very low power signal generator usually running at 5 volts.

Don't need the field. We are not looking to find the frequency.


This signal is an electrical voltage signal on a wire, not a uniform magnetic field.
Any tiny trace of magnetism which could be induced by a small movement of current is millions of times smaller than the 20 Tesla field which the narrator used in his demonstration.

This is pretty convincing evidence that MFD signal generators have nothing to do with NMR/MRI methods.

Who said they did? I am only talk about frequency of elements.

I would think if MFD could work at all, it could not work on the principle of precession detection.
And so far I have seen no evidence that MFD works at all except anecdotal stories.
But I have seen evidence that it does not work in actual field experiments.

3. In the case of H3Tec, we can compare the equipment to MFD because it has a circuit board which is claimed to send out a signal.
The manufacturer claims a signal is sent to the smaller of the two dowsing rods in order to excite the isotope which you select in a grid up to 10 miles square.
But when Carl took apart the small dowsing rod, he found it was connected to a ground wire, not a signal wire. This is outright fraud.
They lied about sending out a signal to the small dowsing rod.
So the H3Tec locator cannot excite atoms using NMR, or MRI methods or MFD methods.
I believe that even you witnessed the H3Tec failing to find the silver coins it was set to find in the field.

I can't talk for H3tec. Well He just the unit and we tested.


It looks to me like you are right that precession frequencies are in the audio range in the earth's field, and Qiaozhi is right about how NMR and MRI have absolutely nothing to do with MFDs.

Well we are using the NMR frequencies in the earth field and harmonics.

Tim

[J_Player]

Hi Tim,
I see you agreed completely with what I said except for three comments to clarify your position:

...Don't need the [magnetic] field. We are not looking to find the frequency.
...Well we are using the NMR frequencies in the earth field and harmonics.
...I can't talk for H3tec. Well He just the unit and we tested.

From what you say about the H3Tec, I know you and Carl only made your tests on the unit at the show to see it didn't work.
But Carl also tested another unit later, which he also found to not work.
And he took it apart and found a lot of information about the technical aspects of it.
This is how we discovered they lied about sending out a signal that excites isotopes for up to 10 miles grid.
But we didn't need to wait for Carl to take it apart.
Anyone can read about the events that took place in the past year to see they have been lying all along about their claims for their locator.
The test lab confirmed they lied about passing double blind testing, and even the awards people confirmed they did not win the awards as they claimed.
Their lies do not stop there... The evidence is overwhelming that they have a fake detector that they promote with lies and exagerrations to convince people to buy it.
If a ground wire connected to a dowsing rod works to excite isotopes in a 10 mile square grid as they claim, then why not disconnect the signal generator wire you use in your MFD and replace it with a ground wire to see what happens?
I would think that even though you only tested one unit, you know quite a bit more about the likelyhood that H3Tec equipment could work.

From what you are saying about MFD, it seems you agree MFD is not the same as NMR and MRI methods.
The only similarity is you set your signal generator to the same frequencies that are used for NMR and MRI methods.
It is quite easy to see MFD does not use magnetic methods for detection.
This means that MFD can only work if a dowsing rod with a signal generator is responsive to some target substance hidden in the distance.
I won't bother to ask how it works, as I doubt anyone has a clue of how to explain it in a way that doesn't sound like pseudoscience nonsense.
But feel free to explain it if you can.
It would be intersting to see a real live demonstration of this method working rather than reading an endless list of anecdotal tales of success in forum posts that say it really works.
Maybe you know people who will be able to show it working to find hidden metals in the Southern California area?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

So if I tell you that 197 Gold resonates at 36.80hz @ 50nt Would I be liying?

Tim

So if I used the sixth harmonic of 36.85 Hz that comes out to (you do the math). Where have I seen that number before? That one Bill Morgan used. I think it was in 1996 one of Dell's MFD's used something like 222 Hz. It must be some kind of coincidence, no? You mean to tell me the gold I found on that frequency was random chance? What shrink do you go to? He is a rip-off!!!

Abbe Mermet said the sixth and eleventh harmonic rings are the strongest.

[Tim Williams]

From what you are saying about MFD, it seems you agree MFD is not the same as NMR and MRI methods.

Correct! But MFD uses the frequencies in the earth field that is in the audio range. That is all I am saying.

The only similarity is you set your signal generator to the same frequencies that are used for NMR and MRI methods.

Correct.

It is quite easy to see MFD does not use magnetic methods for detection.

Correct.

This means that MFD can only work if a dowsing rod with a signal generator is responsive to some target substance hidden in the distance.
I won't bother to ask how it works, as I doubt anyone has a clue of how to explain it in a way that doesn't sound like pseudoscience nonsense.
But feel free to explain it if you can.

I don't think I could add anything new. But, I do use generators as a added tool when treasure hunting. I even use it to map dowse. Look here.

http://lrlman.com/serveying.htm

Read about the silver lamps. Can I explain it. No But it happened. I was using NMR frequencies and my equipment.

It would be intersting to see a real live demonstration of this method working rather than reading an endless list of anecdotal tales of success in forum posts that say it really works.

I understand. I read all the merry go round about dowsing and LRL's and try to stay out of it. But I just wanted to let the thread know that LRL's are using the NMR frequencies in the earth field and harmonics of them.

Maybe you know people who will be able to show it working to find hidden metals in the Southern California area?

Someone may want to get with you, I don't know. You can make an offer to meet with someone just so they can show you how they use LRL equipment. Someone may step up.

Tim

[J_Player]

...MFD uses the frequencies in the earth field that is in the audio range. That is all I am saying.

...I do use generators as a added tool when treasure hunting. I even use it to map dowse. Look here.

http://lrlman.com/serveying.htm

Read about the silver lamps. Can I explain it. No But it happened. I was using NMR frequencies and my equipment.

TimHi Tim,
I can understand your map dowsing success for the silver lamp.
I often use my similar method to find coins at the beach.
But I don't need a frequency generator. I use the guess method to find the coins.
I have been over 95% successful at locating lost coins from a long distance using my guess method.
It seems strange that I can locate more coins from home with a map of the beach than when in the sand by guessing.
Of course, I use a metal detector for pinpointing, but I nearly always find the targets that were located from a really long distance by using the scientific method of guessing.
How it works?
I don't know, but I know it works because I saw it work with my own eyes!


...Maybe you know people who will be able to show it working to find hidden metals in the Southern California area?

Originally posted by Tim Williams
Someone may want to get with you, I don't know. You can make an offer to meet with someone just so they can show you how they use LRL equipment. Someone may step up.I have had an open offer for anyone to demonstrate an LRL working in the Southern California area, and even offered to post videos of it. But nobody has responded in the past 5 years. Maybe someone can show it working now?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Maybe you should watch this before stating your facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aRKAXD4dAg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You may learn something.

Hi Tim...sorry for the late reply (out of town)....I feel the other forum citizens have posted sufficient information. The basic frequency generator will not act the same (or similar to) NMR spectroscopy

Take care, Jim

[Tim Williams]

Never said it did!:D

[Tim Williams]

Hi Tim,
I can understand your map dowsing success for the silver lamp.
I often use my similar method to find coins at the beach.
But I don't need a frequency generator. I use the guess method to find the coins.
I have been over 95% successful at locating lost coins from a long distance using my guess method.
It seems strange that I can locate more coins from home with a map of the beach than when in the sand by guessing.
Of course, I use a metal detector for pinpointing, but I nearly always find the targets that were located from a really long distance by using the scientific method of guessing.
How it works?
I don't know, but I know it works because I saw it work with my own eyes!


I have had an open offer for anyone to demonstrate an LRL working in the Southern California area, and even offered to post videos of it. But nobody has responded in the past 5 years. Maybe someone can show it working now?

Best wishes,
J_P

J_p The picture I have on my site is cropped. Here's the link to the full picture.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,375766.0.html

[Qiaozhi]

J_p The picture I have on my site is cropped. Here's the link to the full picture.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,375766.0.html
It's like a "Spot The Ball" competition for map dowsers! :lol:

[Tim Williams]

That's a very large area. It's hard to say I hit a silver target from a picture many miles away isn't it. If you want to call that chance then I'll take my chances!why don't you calculate the area in red and tell me the odds of me hitting a target on 2 choices. That's what skeptics are good at. I'd like to know the odds.

[Jim]

That's a very large area. It's hard to say I hit a silver target from a picture many miles away isn't it. If you want to call that chance then I'll take my chances!why don't you calculate the area in red and tell me the odds of me hitting a target on 2 choices. That's what skeptics are good at. I'd like to know the odds.

Of course....you are banking on the credibility of that message board poster being truthful, and there actually was a hidden target to begin with and you actually guessed where it was hidden. Also noteable, is that you did not "hit" the targets...but, were way off.

Just saying......its called a "game" for a reason

[Tim Williams]

I did not win Jim. Red did. Take your time next time and read slowly.

[Jim]

I did not win Jim. Red did. Take your time next time and read slowly.

Of course you didn't win.

It only goes to show how "good" your added tools/generator gimmick works

[Tim Williams]

Now Jim your being silly. I hit a silver target in a old building that the guy forgot about! It was in that old shed for 15 years. Come on say it's so.

[Jim]

I finally got to watch Nat Geo's Secret History of Gold. It featured a segment on a fellow who used an early H3 (basically just dowsing rods, plus a little magic box) to look for 80 bars of gold in a cave. As usual, it was another complete failure, with accompanying alibis.

This is, of course, Chuck's #1 testimonial. Personally, I would have chosen one where gold was actually found.


Evidently....Chuck has omitted that testimonial on the new and improved (rhetorical) H3 Tec website.

As a matter of fact....lots of things have been omitted